Joachim Raff - Piano Concerto, Op. 185 (1873)

[@seppiluthold5014]

One of my favorite piano concertos. Really wish more pianists would learn some of these lost gems rather then record the 1000th version of Tchaikovsky’s 1st(which I do love). This and Brulls 2nd piano concerto should be played much more. Something I read about Raff when I was younger I have not heard mentioned. Apparantly he had a big family and need money early on. So he churned out pieces so quickly that he left mistakes in them or they were not polished. At the end of his life he went back and revised/edited them. However he didnt make it through all of them. This may have led to him having a drop in reputation after his death. Some modern critics have refered to them as "potboilers". Mainly for this reason. Personally I find the works of his I have heard and played fantastic.

[@francispanny5068]

You mean Ignaz Brulls?

[@Meelosweasel]

His piano concerto and his Symphony no. 5 "Leonore" are my personal favorites. He seemed to have focused more on perfecting the most popular style of his day rather than challenging it. Makes for a wonderful romantic sound, but of course, nobody has ever heard of him.

[@bartjebartmans]

Raff's problem is that he, especially in his symphonies, is at times very academic. His orchestrations are very bleak, bland, with the perennial horns filling up chords, with little creativity. There is little contrast, few strong themes, and if you look for drama like Tchaikovsky offers, forget it. All in all, office work. The piano concerto is an exception and his string quartets are actually quite interesting although they have a bit of a relentless quality which can get bothersome as there is little release of tension.

[@ClassicMusicVidsUSA]

Bartje, I recommend you listen to his Piano Quintet. That's his only work that really seems to have the mix of thematic drama and resolution. He's good for background music while you work because he's pleasant in that romantic style but often uninteresting enough that you don't get drawn in.

[@he01gjs]

I have his Suite for piano and orchestra firmly listed om my favorites, a surprisingly brilliant showpiece.

[@timothythorne9464]

I admit I came to Raff rather late in life; long after enjoying Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Schubert, Schumann and other Romantic luminaries. Raff is a tremendous composer whose popularity has increased exponentially in the last 30 years. When I first heard this piece, Raff recordings were rare; I'm only aware of Marco Polo releasing a set of his symphonies bout that time. Now I have numerous Raff recordings: the complete orchestral collections on Marco Polo, Tudor and some other Swiss label with a red cross logo (I can't remember the name right off hand). I also enjoy lots of his brilliant chamber music. Raff's music is uber-romantic, atmospheric and lovely, moreso than Brahms, Tchaikovsky or Wagner. I'm a Raffaholic. It's high time this composer is examined in depth by lovers of classical music, and certainly performances of his works need to become more available.

[@vaclavmiller8032]

@@ClassicMusicVidsUSA I'd also recommend the two piano quartets.

[@АлександрЯрков-ш2з]

Bravo bravo bravo brilliance grandiose music concerto super

[@fergusmaclachlan1404]

I. Allegro 10:53 II. Andante quasi Larghetto 18:50 III. Allegro

[@timothythorne9464]

I remember first listening to this fantastic piano concerto in the UH music library back in the fall of '88 and being blown away by its power and Romantic eloquence. And it was this very performer, Michael Ponti. It was on an old MHS vinyl LP coupled with the Hiller piano concerto on side B. Bartje, I have to admit you picked a "Nguyener" with this awesome KZbin selection!

[@bartjebartmans]

Thanks! I uploaded the Hiller as well, with manuscript score.

[@fulviopolce9785]

Raff è uno dei mie beniamini e conosco molte delle sue prolifiche opere (la 5a sinfonia rimane il suo capolavoro romantico). Trovo un ottima composizione anche il concerto per pf e questa registrazione con Ponti è ammirevole.

[@animalistiktiero3835]

10:23 I really love that section

[@The_Amazing_Stories]

Bravo! Bravo Señores, concierto exquisito en todos los aspectos.

[@fredericchopin7538]

Magnificent!

[@ewaldsteyn469]

Wonderfull conceto! Certainly no masterpiece in the class of a Tchiakovsky, Brahms or Schumann piano conceto. But stilll there is so much to enjoy from Raff's concerto. Those people who can't appreciate this misic are missing out. I had great fun listening to it. Thanks for posting it on KZbin.

[@Kalen1457]

I personally think it's better than a Brahms concerto. It's much more energetic; whereas Brahms sacrifices bravura for excessive melodrama. This piece is just more vivacious/vibrant/lively and has way more expressive colors and hues. Just my opinion.

[@vaclavmiller8032]

@Lunar Orbit Brahms died in 1897, although I share the sentiment that he is one of the greatest composers of his century.

[@rogerknox9147]

Finely crafted as the orchestration is I consider the Raff more a soloist's piano concerto (the Chopin concertos tip the balance even more to the soloist), and it isn't surprising that it quickly became popular. The Brahms concertos are symphonic concertos, with the high seriousness, concentration and developmental variation technique of the composer's greatest extended works. I really wish we could get to the point where people could distinguish these different types, and not exalt or denigrate based on mis-recognition of the kind of concerto they are.

[@timothythorne9464]

Kalen1457 I don't think it's "better" than the Brahms concerti (Brahms 2nd piano concerto is the finest in the entire genre, IMO). But this Raff concerto is different, and very romantic and rhetorical.

[@vuemusicale]

As myself a Swiss citizen, this composer is a great discovery for me. I like this concerto with brio interpreted by Michael Ponti and the orchestra. By the way which orchestra is it and who conducts it?

[@bartjebartmans]

Hamburg SO conducted by Richard Kapp.

[@vuemusicale]

Bartje Bartmans thanks 👍🏼

[@wensidunmi]

nice

[@rbbonotto]

Ponti has been a bit under-rated. His finale to the Scharwenka 2nd just runs rings around the recent Chandos release of the same. It's one of those rare recordings where the wit actually makes you chuckle.

[@PetStuBa]

wow that's far from boring this concerto ...what an energy , I've never heard this before ... maybe a stupid question ... but, why does nobody play this at the Queen Elisabeth Competition ?

[@PetStuBa]

you're always that nice to people you don't know ?

[@classicalmusic1175]

@Ronald David You're an asshat.

[@christianwouters6764]

Because the members of the orchestra don't like to work hard and study new parts. Even for Mozart concerto's there are no more than 4 or 5 allowed because these are the ones they play for years.

[@rogerknox9147]

I can imagine more than one approach to the soloist's interpretation. Michael Ponti is a "super-virtuoso" who carries the listener along with his energy, strength, and panache -- I feel complete confidence in his technique and delivery! But a "mere virtuoso" could also play the work terrifically -- with the 2nd and 3rd movements a bit slower, and the whole lighter with more attention to detail -- and attain equal validity.

[@bartjebartmans]

Then to imagine that due to budget reasons Ponti and the orchestra had very little rehearsal time and almost were sight reading it. I read somewhere that Ponti got so excited and drawn into this experience that he even kept playing during the orchestral tutti's. Pure joy of performing. Unique.

[@intervalkid]

Really great underplayed concerto by Mrs. Schumann.

[@fredericchopin7538]

Schumann?

[@shalemloritsch9382]

Wow, this is almost good as a Rachmaninoff piano concerto!

[@arlettehellemans2117]

All my respect for Michael Ponti, who once was at the Belgian Elisabeth Competition

[@joepwalter1739]

Zeer knap en virtuoos! Maar mooi?

[@ConcordMass]

26:00

[@rigel48]

"A piece of consummate craftsmanship", but what poor tunes. Nothing which stay in the ear. The difference between a great composer and a good composer.

[@vesteel]

idk about you but i'm humming the themes of the 1st movement right now

[@rogerknox9147]

@@vesteel I'm humming one of the 3rd movement themes, maybe it'll stick ...

[@Chorizo727]

I agree. It is a rather boring piece with no lasting impression or memorable moments.

[@SaintSaens0]

personally I think the themes are pretty catchy, but that's not the point. Don't think its fair to judge Raff only on his themes, that wasn't the goal of the piece, the goal was craftsmanship and he achieved it. He has plenty of music with themes better than these, if he really wanted great themes he would have spent more time on it.

[@anandsamuel1978]

@@SaintSaens0 I agree completely with you.

[@Rafffan]

Diese Interpretation ist ziemlich schrecklich, weil hier viel zu schnell gespielt wird - über alle Details hinweg, die Raffs Musik so interessant machen.