Baseball during the dead-ball era, 1901-1920 - Lecture 4

[@someguy7222]

Kind of stumbled on these by chance. Really great stuff. very enjoyable

[@rogertayloRRR]

Same

[@robertredmon5409]

Same i'm loving these

[@yourneighborhoodxenos]

Same, and I don't even follow pro baseball of any kind and haven't played baseball/softball since I was a kid. Learning about history is great and getting me interested again

[@daegueric]

Walter Johnson/Ty Cobb story is pretty good. Cobb & his teammates had been razzing the young rooker, Johnson pre-game. Then he unleashed some fastballs. Cobb said it was the most dangerous thing he'd ever seen on a diamond. His strategy when facing Johnson was to crowd the plate -- mind you, he knew Johnson to be kindhearted -- and get up into a favorable count.

[@larryengland7001]

Thanks I had forgotten that story.

[@kurtwagner350]

Very fitting story of the players personalities

[@duke927]

Christy Mathewson. A great pitcher and patriot. A captain in the newly formed Chemical Corps. He was accidentally gassed during his WWI service. He essentially died from this accident after contracting Tuberculosis in 1925. One of the first college grads to play professional baseball. He and Walter Johnson were great pitchers.

[@steed3902]

Great lecture about the dead ball....Grover Cleveland Alexander "Alex" deserves a mention in this episode!

[@brucestewart7371]

This is great. Somehow it popped up on my feed. I will share these. The comparisons you make to modern things and players is a great way to get to the crux of the matter. You had a couple of slip ups, nothing major- Walter Johnson wasn’t from Kansas, he was from Idaho, which makes his story even more improbable. As far as his velocity, it’s impossible to say for sure, but historians have tried to sync up his delivery in real time, and he was probably close to 100 mph. I read something about Christy Mathewson, that while his public image remained intact, and he was all those things you said he was- he was also a gambler. He carried cards with him on every road trip and would regularly clean out whomever he played with. Not all, but most of the time. He would take action on anything but baseball. I was shocked when I heard it, but as it was laid out it could be entirely possible if he just bet on certain things. FYI. Keep up the good work!

[@gsjackson34]

Johnson spent his first 14 years in Kansas, then attended high school in California. He lived in Idaho briefly prior to signing.

[@johnniemi8012]

Walter Johnson was from Kansas, not Idaho. A simple Google search would have kept you from not only being wrong but feeling the need to correct this guy.

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the scout that signed him said you can’t hit what you can’t see.

[@nozrep]

I only watch folks like Jomboy, Rich Eisen, Pat McAfee, Dan Patrick, and Black and White Sports. Then this came up in my recommendeds. But I also watch a lot of history channels like Mark Felton and Ancient Architects. So, welp, there you have it, it seems the “algorithm” put those two items together and now Bawden’s videos entered into my ‘recommended’ feed. On the corrections of the corrections.... I hadn’t any clue in the first place. Yall argue amongst yourselves and I’ll just try to watch and enjoy the history and learn a bunch of interesting stuff I hadn’t known before 😌☺️

[@csnide6702]

back when fundamentals were key. hitting behind the runner - stolen bases & timely hitting will always make for a good game and a sound player.

[@brucewayne3602]

absolutely beyond brilliant ... craving #1, #2, #3 & all remaining ... Thankyou BP !!!

[@stevefish3124]

Spaulding (NL) and Reach (AL) introduced the cork-centered ball around 1910-1911. After Ray Chapman's fatal beaning soiled balls were taken out of games which played a role in the number of homeruns hit out of the park. There are 3 different "original" recordings of "Take me out to the Ballgame. Ed Meeker on an Edison cylinder, Hayden Quartet on Victor, and Harry Hindermeyer on Columbia and its affiliate labels.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks for the comment. I didn't know about the other recordings of "Take me out to the ballgame".

[@CrookedEyeSniper]

These videos are fascinating! They include everything I ever wondered about, and even things I never even thought to ask about. Things like the origin of the national anthem. It's something I'd never even thought to ask. I just subbed and I'm binge watching all the videos. Cheers.

[@emilymatt9999]

JUST STARTED COLLECTING THE ERA's BALL CARDS..SO COOL..AND OLD

[@ricardolagunas6420]

Big dodgers fans and stumbled on this video. I just absolutely love baseball as I believe it is such and American pastime. USA and baseball have grown together hand in hand.

[@tomdavis8757]

Yes and now the shift is for Spanish speaking in the USA just as in baseball. Some teams need interpreters for half their roster Cheers

[@norrisnonkin5283]

A good overview of the era, but a point of correction: Eddie Cicotte pronounced his name as "SEE-cot". I'll also add that the movie "Eight Men Out" is a very good dramatization of the Black Sox scandal.

[@gregb6469]

@The Hills have eyes -- What bad play? Jackson led both teams in hitting, and committed no errors in the field.

[@gregb6469]

@The Hills have eyes -- How do you know? You seem to think Joe was Superman, and could bat 1.000 at will, and field all three OF position at once. From my best understanding (which is, admittedly [like everyone else's] somewhat limited), Jackson with great reluctance took some money, then went out and played 100% anyway. I have read that he tried to tell Comiskey about the plot, and was blown off. There is no on-field evidence that Jackson was trying to throw games, just testimony by persons who were motivated to lie about his involvement, and a 'confession' that was obtained under such questionable circumstances that it would be inadmissible in any courtroom today.

[@TheBatugan77]

Subbed. Great stuff. I'm a baseball nut and a history buff.

[@Brucewells62]

Brilliant! Thank you Professor.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks for the comment!

[@briggscharleton6139]

Excellent video

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thank you very much!

[@risboturbide9396]

This is a great one; thank you, Professor!

[@ronburgundy8174]

I certainly have respect for the ballplayers of that era and what they've helped give us today. With that said I think some of these statements of pitchers throwing 95-100 is stuff of urban legend. First, they pitched off of much flatter mounds. Second, I would imagine that most just got up there and would sling it into home plate. If most were supposed to go the full 9 innings (and more with extra innings) then their careers would have been MUCH shorter. I'm guessing they probably through low to mid 80's at their fastest. And this lore about Bob Feller throwing a 107 mph fastball? Great pitcher but yeah, right......

[@gregb6469]

During the Dead Ball era most teams didn't have single pitcher who could throw a 90+mph fastball for strikes.

[@somekindaguy100]

Walter Johnson was deemed the fastest and he was approx 91 miles

[@anonymike8280]

However, the live ball was introduced in 1914. Gavvy Cravath could be considered the first hitter to take advantage of the new conditions. Babe Ruth set a new season home run records of 29 in 1919 before the new rules came in requiring the use of fresh baseballs. It is is possible, the ball had been livened up in stages, meaning that the ball used in the era immediately before 1914 was more live than the the ball of earlier times. Changes in rules and playing conditions didn't seem to affect the dominance of the best players though. A number of the top players played across eras, including before and after integration, and their game always seemed to carry over.

[@Fatherflot64]

Ty Cobb also played for the A's in '27-'28

[@retiredatforty]

Connie Mack of the Philadelphia Athletics wore a suit, rather than a baseball uniform, but as you note, most wore uniforms.

[@michaelmorris6575]

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

[@jacksmith5692]

They had one last league to take on MLB in the Federal League for 2 years. After 1976 there were many leagues that came and went opposed to the National League. Every time a new league was created, salaries and competition for the players went up and as soon as the leagues folded, the National League owners kept the salaries and players rights limited. After 1914, the players had few rights and only a few made any money. Owners were scum and abused the players instead of saying we have something great, lets work together and each side would have benefited. The massive salaries we see today with so many fans costed out is the result of owner abuse and greed from that era to the 1976 freedom. Salaries would have increased but not to the degree we see today and a Marvin Miller would have never been brought in in 1966. Miller was a genius and took the owners down with his intellect. The owners blew it and MLB has the most powerful union today!

[@thatguise1848]

It also coincides with the (for the most part) end of the era of owners whose primary source of income was the baseball team. Connie Mack was the last of that old breed and the major reason the A's left Philly was because his sons had no significant income outside of baseball to pay off the debts and keep the team in the city. Long gone too are the days when the fellow who owned the team was a guy who owned a few car dealerships or made money in local real estate, these days you've either had the team for a long time like the Steinbrenners or you're a billionaire/part of a consortium of multi-millionaires. I will say that the concession and seat prices of yesteryear were largely built on artificially devalued player salaries, yet even with that in mind the prices do seem higher than they should be given the owners' wealth and the fact that everything seems to have an advertising sponsor. It also relates back to the problems about competitiveness and tanking that were part of the talk of the offseason. Owners today can coast off of the higher ticket and concession prices and ad money without putting together a competitive team because they can just pocket the money from revenue sharing instead of investing it into players or passing it back to the fans in the form of cheaper concessions and tickets.

[@jacksmith5692]

@@thatguise1848 There are teams that have low payrolls that are run well like Tampa Bay, Cleveland, and for the most part Oakland but there are others that are so unfair to their fanbase. Do we need to name them? Many of the owners back in the day(1920) were rich like Jacob Ruppert of the Yankees or Bill Wrigley of the Cubs, Barney Dreyfuss of the Pirates, Phil Ball of the St Louis Browns, Jim Dunn of Cleveland, Sam Breadon of the Cardinals to name a few. There were former players like Comiskey and Griffith but remember until he died, Ben Shibe was the money behind the A's, not Connie Mack.

[@thatguise1848]

@@jacksmith5692 I hadn't realized the extent of that, thanks for the info.

[@jacksmith5692]

@@thatguise1848 No problem, this is great stuff and our history!

[@joeylocognato2198]

Hey, I would take both of them ( Cristy and Walter ) for the Yankees today. Joe Jackson batted 375, drove in a few runs, and didn't commit an error. If you hit field like that, it's impossible to link him as a sellout. He didn't accept one dollar. I am not saying the voice-over talent is suggesting this, but that is what happened with Joe Jackson.

[@TB12710]

He also had the highest batting average for the series for anyone on both teams also he was the only person to homer in the series and it was an inside the park hr, SJJ got jacked, they need to put him in the HOF yesterday.

[@joeylocognato2198]

@@TB12710 ABSOLUTELY AGREED!!!

[@lucawells383]

Sick video man

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks. I appreciate the positive feedback

[@MarlinWilliams-ts5ul]

I believe commercial radio didnt begin until about 1923, outside the parameters of this video.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

It began in the early 1920s. What did I say?

[@Ben-ok4gx]

Great video, but disappointed at no mention of Rube Waddell and his antics 🤣

[@nozrep]

Matthewson looks like an actor who used to be pretty well known and famous but isn’t much anymore, and I forgot his name.

[@rusterkat1188]

Jim Caviezel ??

[@nozrep]

oh him too sorta kinda. But it was another actor whose face I can see in my mind but I can’t remember his name. Similar smile, mostly.

[@nozrep]

oh i found it! Dermot Mulroney, but pictures of him in his much younger years. As he had aged quite a bit and I had forgotten that.

[@spaceghost8995]

Paul Newman.

[@iracordem]

mark harmon

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

Also honest Dickie Kerr was also banished for playing outlaw baseball with the 8 men out.

[@jpsned]

I went to Bucknell University, just like Christy Mathewson! 🙂

[@carlosb8130]

8:17 The manager Connie Mack (December 22, 1862 - February 8, 1956) chose to wear a business suit, hat, and overcoat in the dugout rather than a team uniform.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I like that Mack did what he wanted.

[@jacksmith5692]

I meant 1876, not 1976 in the first sentence. My bad!

[@webcelt]

Why was there such a long time between Chapman's death and the requirement to wear helmets? When were batting helmets first available?

[@Tomatohater64]

Surprised we didn't hear anything about Addie Joss.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Addie Joss is a worthy subject.

[@shaindaman13]

Im from Greenville SC. Joe Jackson is a legend here for sure. I wish the truth was better known because from what everyone says Joe just wasn’t the type to be dishonest or do anything just for money. He just wanted to be better than his upbringing.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I think Joe had the misfortune of playing with crooked teammates.

[@JayDagny]

I also feel that you gloss over how baseball impacted The Star-Spangled Banner BECOMING the national anthem rather than the war inspiring the band to play the song at the game. It didn't become the OFFICIAL national anthem until 1931, partially as a result of the popularity gained from it being played at ball games

[@robbin8300]

9:30 I think you meant to say Eddie Collins, not Eddie Nichols.

[@jakoborzelli9082]

Good lesson

[@stankatic8182]

Home base ?

[@wvu05]

Considering Ty Cobb's batting style, couldn't you imagine the reaction time that would allow? Even if you don't have your hands split, you only have about three-tenths of a second to react, so that allows even less time to decide what to do.

[@gregb6469]

Actually, since average pitch velocity back then was lower than it is now, the batter usually had about half a second to react.

[@wvu05]

​@@gregb6469 For that to be the case, they'd have to be throwing well under 70.

[@andrewfischer8564]

i saw joe torre play and manage the mets

[@jimlaguardia8185]

You are mistaken about helmets, which came into use in the 1960s, not 1970s.

[@mr1nyc]

The Star Spangled Banner was not officially the national anthem until 1931.

[@Lcngopher]

3:44 and cleveland made that slide wrong now that they changed to the guardians for the 2022 season

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

Shoeless Joe is not controversial with his part in the fix. According to the book 8 men out he did receive 10k. His wife wrote Charles Comiskey and offered to return the money. So unlike Buck Weaver, he actually took money. I don’t think gamblers would have fixed the WS without Joe, he was too good of a player. Also his stats are in question. He never got a hit that mattered.

[@supersami7748]

I don’t know what book you read but you really need to check the team and individual stats for that series. Everything I’ve read over the years is 180 out from the info you have. Judge Landis was also a very successful tyrant for almost 25 years especially when it came to not only Joe Jackson (who don’t forget was cleared by the court) but who could play in MLB.

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

@@supersami7748 I read the book "8 men out" and yes it does make reference to Joe Jacksons wife trying to return the 10K during the next years contract negations. And yes, he never hit when he needed to.

[@A-FrameWedge]

You can’t return money unless you took it first.

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

@@A-FrameWedge and.....he took it according to the book. The whole movie kinda glossed over the payments to the players. Gandal got $35K and I think he kept most if not all for himself.

[@gregb6469]

@@michaelgerhardt7130 -- Really? If I recall correctly, Jackson's BA with men on base was higher than with empty bases.

[@peteywheatstraws4909]

Yeah this is awesome. Baseball and sociology combined.

[@josephprather1614]

I didn't know that uncle Sam batted lefty.

[@michaelgerhardt7130]

Also your “connection between government snd baseball”. You left out the hearings before 1919, similar to the hearings on steriods, where the government blasted baseball for how corrupt it was. They said that you cannot call yourself a sport woth so many games fixed. Baseball vowed to clean up their act.

[@billthehofcollector4525]

No love for tris speaker?

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Mistake. Speaker deserved a few words.

[@ghtbl]

Awesome page indeed. You may like some of our videos as well...if you're interested in Connecticut baseball.

[@MT-ub8qg]

Babe wasnt even the best pitcher for Red Sox in 1918. Sad Sam Jones was the Best Pitcher on 1918 Red Sox .762 W-L. Carl Mays pitched more games and would better pitcher as well. Great lecture. Interested to listen to the next era. Hopefully you recognize Sam Jones who was the best pitcher in AL and Yankees in 1923.

[@Ben-ok4gx]

Ruth was better by almost every metric in 1918. Lower ERA, FIP, WHIP, BB/9, and a higher SO(K)/9. Jones did pitch more innings, but he was a worse pitcher during those innings. Pitcher wins and even ERA are not a good way to evaluate pitchers because they are mostly based on luck and not skill.

[@MT-ub8qg]

@@Ben-ok4gx not hardly. Far less pitches more wins.

[@Ben-ok4gx]

@@MT-ub8qg the same result could have happened if the opposing pitcher was struck by lightning. Has nothing to do with the quality of pitching.

[@paysonfox88]

@@MT-ub8qg by your standards Robbie Ray of the Seattle Mariners with an era over four, and a strikeout rate at about 1 per inning and contact rates that are pretty high, that man is a better pitcher than shohei Ohtani... Who strikes out more batters per inning, has an era of 2.8, but throws fewer innings. You take those two head up in one game with equal offenses backing them, and you bet money against otani, you will lose that money most of the time.

[@MT-ub8qg]

@@paysonfox88 that was an obscure anology, but... ok

[@shaindaman13]

This is some serious ASMR!shut right here that puts my ass STRAIGHT into a damn near comatose state. Keep ‘em coming Man. I really do not care what you talk about either. Do one on the fuckin rise and fall of AVON Lady for all I care, just keep ‘em comin, please. I’m not really interested in learning shit about fuck, Im just tryna get my sleep on over here.

[@nozrep]

well this is not an asmr channel. it is a baseball history channel. Maybe unintentional asmr, maybe. But more likely you are just a regular person uninterested in learning interesting history, and are able to be put to sleep by a college professor’s regular speaking voice. A college professor’s regular, class lecture, university speaking voice. That is wholly different than what ASMR is, which is binaural (hear in both ears simultaneous) auditorially manufactured whispers, clicks, crumples, brushing sounds. So again, yes, it put you to sleep. Excellent! Good! Good for you. But is it ASMR? No.

[@gregb6469]

Ed Cicotte's last name is pronounce see-cot.

[@DemonPonyboy]

Charles Bender looking like Oppenheimer

[@JayDagny]

Paused at 18:39 to say that from what I've heard in these lectures thus far, I am very surprised -if not shocked- that you didn't mention Ty Cobb's absolutely abhorrent beliefs and conduct of character. He was an incredibly violent racist *Edit: SO happy I read that Leerhsen article to learn how wrong I was and how I was playing a part in something without realizing it

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Charles Leerhsen's research has really upended what everyone assumed about Ty Cobb. My impression of the man came from Al Stump's writing and misrepresentations from Ken Burns' otherwise outstanding series on the history of baseball.

[@Brooklyn3955]

@@thebaseballprofessor Very well said. I have chatted with many people who still believe Cobb was an outright animal.

[@michaelway7936]

Didn't John Mc Graw briefly manage 🤔 a great athlete Jim Thorpe around 1909 - 1911before having to let him go because he was a Native American?

[@thebaseballprofessor]

John McGraw managed Jim Thorpe multiple seasons (1913-1919), but he wasn't let go on account of being Native American. Thorpe was a pinch hitter and not a strong fielder. He only had 750 plate appearances over the course of his MLB career.

[@ulyssesfister3735]

Its Jack "Meyers", not Meyer. Jack Meyer played for the Phillies in the 50s.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks for the correct.

[@M4G4M4N]

Man... Would I hold a lifetime grudge against my parents if they'd named me Christy as a boy ... Just imagine being bullied until you'd either learn to stand up for yourself or let it ruin you

[@spaceghost8995]

No one really cares what your name is.

[@gregb6469]

His given name was Christopher.

[@patrickpalmer2203]

Ok sally no need to take it back to the UN-woke era 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@larrycurtis2783]

George Sisler forgotten

[@thebaseballprofessor]

And Tris Speaker. Regrettably, I had to cut out many great players and significant events. I created these lectures for a class so that shaped what I did and did not include.

[@BillKing8888]

Maybe it's me being Canadian, but this seems as much about race as baseball. Otherwise, very informative.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I take a "baseball and society" approach to the content. That is, what does the history of baseball say about the United States over time?

[@terrybono5995]

Its not Nap Lajoy its pronounced Napoleon Lajaway rube foster won a game against rube waddell and was given the nickname rube

[@Mattyice6969]

Well they didn’t become the orioles until the 50’s before that they were known as the St. Louis browns

[@Brucewells62]

There was an American League charter member franchise in 1901 named the "Baltimore Orioles", which moved to New York in 1903 to eventually become the New York Highlanders (later renamed the Yankees). The Milwaukee Brewers (another AL charter franchise in 1901, moved to St. Louis prior to the 1902 season and became the Browns. Those Browns moved to Baltimore becoming the Orioles in 1954.

[@2012photograph]

Talking about baseball.stadium how heck can Brooklyn Dodgers play in such small stadium Ebbet Field.On Polo Grounds Ex General/President Washington ex girlfriend had house above Stadium in Washington Heights of Borough of Manhattan in NYC.

[@MrGordonSims]

I really want to like this, but three minutes in there was a somewhat egregious error. First radio broadcast of a ball game didn’t happen until 1921. Hang on, five minutes in, did he just say “Alfred” Spalding? This is some amateur bullshit.

[@nozrep]

errors? ok. unfortunate. But he is not an amateur. He is a professional history professor and historian. So, yes the errors are unfortunate and should not have have happened. But in the context of the entire video, I forgive him. The entire video is not egregious errors, for example. And again he is a professional historian and professor who unfortunately seems to have left in those errors before correcting them and then uploading the video.

[@2012photograph]

How much dlid Players/Managers got paid during dead ball era..

[@thebaseballprofessor]

According to one researcher, Mordecai Brown made $10,000 in 1914 as player/manager for the St. Louis Terriers. That's nearly $300,000 adjusted. www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brownmo01.shtml

[@stevenmiller7747]

Nap LaJioe wasn’t pronounced La Joy, it was pronounced “laa show way”

[@johnniemi8012]

Lash- Way.

[@patrickpalmer2203]

For ALL NAME SPECIALISTS in here I just got one thing to say Potatoe potato spuds fries mashed still the same fawking vegetable Just curious when you all got your certificate to DECIDE HOW people should pronounce ACCORDING to your preference 😎🍻🤡🍻

[@robomacman]

Your commentary is out of sync with the pictures (one example: Babe Ruth as pitcher 24:49 switches to picture of Shoeless Joe).

[@hermanator74301]

Napolion (' Nap ' ) lLajoie 's last name is French and is pronounced as ' law- ghuh- way '... not as 'luh-joy '.

[@johnniemi8012]

Lash-Way.

[@nozrep]

but we are Americans and we read and speak in American English and pronounciations. So it is entirely probably that he, as someone who grew up in the US, pronounced his own name as Luh-joy

[@Mark-yy2py]

Right. We tend to Americanize the pronunciations of Words from Europe; especially, from Latin based countries like Italy. Italian is phonetically pure, and as in English, we have silent “e”s, so that changed the pronunciations of surnames.

[@jpsned]

I thought it was "LAH-who-way." 🙂

[@marcodemarco3748]

Yeah nice stuff, but keep the woke shit out of it

[@davidgutzka2397]

Pretty sad that baseball now protests the national anthem

[@mikewines7852]

???? How can you be an Murican patriot yet at the same time you scream and cry for the banishment of the constitutional rights of another American?? To quote America's greatest novelist, Mark Twain: "Patriot: a person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about." So over this whole Murica #1 USA!! USA!! USA!! crowd. These "Patriots" are basically nothing more than a bunch of idiotic, hypocritical, knowledge-challenged, failures and ass clowns.

[@oscarcom4539]

Atrocious

[@TheBatugan77]

Cram a corncob, Oscar.

[@tissuepaper9962]

You're the one who watched it. What does that say about you, Oscar? Are you saying you have bad taste?

[@oscarcom4539]

It says that I know what I'm talking about. The more pressing question is, if you liked it, then what does it say about you? Not a good look 😕.