Baseball during the Gilded Age, 1865-1900 - Lecture 3

[@big8dog887]

A great story about King Kelly. One time when he was managing in Boston, he didn't put himself in the lineup. An opposing batter hit a foul popup toward the Boston bench, and Kelly loudly announced, "Kelly, now catching for Boston!" and caught the ball. At the time, there was no rule against substituting in the middle of the action, so the umpire had no choice but the call the batter out. Obviously, because of this incident, they had to change that rule.

[@robbiearroyo2292]

My mom absolutely loves telling this story.

[@spyroninja]

Thanks for these lectures. I love baseball history

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Glad you like them!

[@annettemalaski1967]

I am learning and appreciating this early era of baseball more.

[@ricardolagunas6420]

Gracias maestro 👨‍🏫

[@Bianca-bq6ut]

Das sollte heißen Die Jungs waren von Dorf und da wurde im 1sten und 2ten Weltkrieg gegründet und Legenden draus gemacht und spielten safransisco gegen Chicago zwei zu null Baseball und besiegten Chicago

[@Bianca-bq6ut]

Bianca heiss😮😂😅🎉

[@esportshighlights2457]

Great video! A few notes: 7:55 - An 81-game winning streak is often cited, but it's worth noting that Cincinnati won their last eight games in 1868, which would put their winning streak at 89. 8:35 - Cincinnati didn't disband after a single loss. They finished out the 1870 season with a 67-6 record. 10:05 - The NA was crooked, without a doubt. The best evidence is that prior to his arrest, Boss Tweed was an investor of the New York Mutuals. 14:51 - The reserve clause came a few years after the NL's founding. 18:05 - John L. Sullivan was somewhat of a baseball player himself! He pitched a couple of semi-pro games in the 1880s and remained a baseball fan throughout his life.

[@randyduncan4672]

From a History major in college and a lifetime player and baseball fan, thank you for this lecture series. I appreciate your approach without political or social agenda dominating your presentation.

[@jelambertson]

He did mention how ripped the country off from the “mostly peaceful” Indians.

[@coralsnake8777]

Thank been a student of baseball since age 11 , 33 years never can know enough or understand all prespectives.names or story change the impact and conceptual influences vary . The more you listen and learn. thank for your time making this.

[@soggbaby]

I love baseball history

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

Charles Elliot sounds like a man after my own heart. Curve balls are dishonest, and the primary reason my dream to play professional baseball collapsed at the tender age of 14. There were other sports I was better at but my heart was always with baseball. When I was a kid, it was tough to find an open diamond in the summer. Not too long ago I happened to come across three on a nice June afternoon. They were all empty and two had grass so high if the backstop wasn't still there you would never know kids once played ball there. But I enjoyed the video. Good job. 👍

[@charlesandrews2360]

Good job. I've loved the game of baseball and its history since the early 1960s, and I've read many books about baseball. I thoroughly enjoyed this lecture and learned a couple of things that I either didn't know or had forgotten about LOL Well done.

[@fgc_teavirus9438]

Cleveland not going back to being the Forest Citys is just heartbreaking.

[@KillrMillr7]

Just found you, great info, well formatted and interesting. I often have thought how cool it must've been for my great grandfather, who as a young boy got to see the 1890's Baltimore Orioles, beat the beaneaters for the championship. Names like Willie Keeler, John McGraw, Wilbert Robinson, who would take baseball to the modern era. To bad my Orioles suck, DeAngelos is no Vonderhorst.

[@scottthomas3672]

I've have the honor to play 1864 rules base ball in CT, RI, MASS, NY, and now TN. It is a great sport, but the history of where we play, from old forts to old plantations is etched in my mind. I can't help think of those who fought in the Civil war.

[@raygsbrelcik5578]

All I know is, we had a Blast, as kids---playing on the nearby fields, feeling like we would one day be Pro--Baseball players. We didn't have video games, or, cell-phones...Thank GOD!! We actually went OUTSIDE to "Play," and exercise our bodies. I'm extremely thankful for having been born in the 50's! ( the Music was infinitely better, as well).

[@jacksmith5692]

Slide Kelly Slide and moving the mound in 1893. Cy Young made the adjustment to 60 feet and 6 inches and proved he was great in the 19th and 20th centuries as he won 511 games. Others like John Clarkson, Tim Keefe, and Tony Mullane did not seeing their careers destroyed by the greater distance! We saw that also in 1969 when the mound was lowered.

[@thinkblue7718]

This was great. The Conan skit is pretty good 👍 thanks for sharing

[@Josh-the-goat-20]

Very informative and enjoyable. As a fan, this is fascinating!!

[@atomicorang]

Very good video. My modern day baseball superstar hero is Sweet Lou Whitaker #1 Detroit Tigers.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Whitaker belongs in the HOF.

[@johnotto4931]

“Drunk spectators picked fights with players and fans” sounds like not much has changed

[@paulbuono5088]

I wanna know who the first fan to run on a field was

[@doppelplusungutmensch1141]

Just a little trivia to me as a German: It is always funny how Americans pronounce German names. I just heard it in the background, when you talked about Christian von der Ahe. I thought his name was Christian Wanderer, as you pronounced him somewhat like that. Then I clicked on the video tab and saw his name, I'd have never heard "von der Ahe" even if I'd tried to. The actual German pronounciation of "von der" would be like "fonn dare" with the last word "Ahe" being pronounced like the U in "usher" directly followed by the English unstressed "a" as in "a pineapple".

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I appreciate the comment. I ought to use Google Translate more often for help pronouncing foreign names. I speak Spanish and Portuguese only.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I wonder if Americans in the 1880s prounced "von der Ahe" like I did in the lecture.

[@doppelplusungutmensch1141]

@@thebaseballprofessor I actually wondered about the same thing when you tried to pronounce him. I doubt they pronounced it the German way, but what's even more interesting, how did HE pronounce HIMSELF when introducing to Americans? I mean, as the president of a professional baseball team he had to introduce himself to other people quite often. By the way, when you said something in Spanish (I guess in part 2 of this series?) I was quite impressed.

[@TheBatugan77]

🗣️👈😡 You'll pronounce it the way we TELL YOU to, dopple!

[@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish.]

My legs fell asleep while dropping ah deuce tryna decipher this.

[@michaelnewton5873]

The men and women of Lansing Ia. have a long history of success in the game of Baseball and Softball. The Local HS is always a threat to win the Conference championship. It is a sports mad River city on the Mississippi .

[@TheBatugan77]

They should call theme the Lansing Boils. ☺️😀😆

[@stevesleg]

Loved the Ohio ball history. Thank you

[@TheIrishfitter]

Excellent!!

[@smeagle3295]

I learned more about your politics in the first minutes than I did about baseball. Thank fuck that Ken Burns made an actual documentary.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

So you liked it! Awww.

[@mariosportsmaster7662]

Historically soccer was viewed as a man's game after WWI (when there were well-publicized ladies matches). Gender neutrality in soccer ,at least in the West and Far East, began in the late 80's and the Women's World Cup popularized it on a world wide scale. There's still work to be done to get full gender neutrality, at least at the professional level, especially in the most of the Mid-East where there are mostly clandestine women's leagues, so not to alert the authorities of their countries (i.e. the Gulf States and off-and-on in Iran).

[@SamAronow]

In the United States, however, soccer is _primarily_ a women's game, which is why it dominates every Women's World Cup, and why it is often misogynistically dismissed.

[@mariosportsmaster7662]

@@SamAronow Do you think the Gulf States and Iran will ever have leagues or field national teams, on the women’s side?

[@wvu05]

@@SamAronow Not really. Women dominate the World Cup because a) there are fewer sports for women to go pro in and make a living than men, b) fewer national women's teams are as competitive (look at the way Brazil wasted the talents of Marta), and c) whereas most men are content to play in MLS, far more women go to top leagues in Europe.

[@TheBatugan77]

Of course soccer is gender neutral. Psssh. Soccer. For women and those who wish they were. Psssh.

[@TheBatugan77]

@@wvu05 What's a world cup? Do you get cheap refills at Circle K with it?

[@GOMF-eq4qc]

Just curious, we have attended 1857 rules base ball, which has underhand slow pitching and outs on one bound of the ball with players advancing, including foul outs on one bound. Just curious when fast overhand pitching began. This really changed the game from a game played by anyone for fun versus the game being played by pros with high skills as a spectator sport.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

The MLB rules committee decided pitchers could throw overhand in 1884 but even before that pitchers were delivering the ball with impressive speed using a delivery a bit like underhanded reliever Dan Quisenberry.

[@dougfowler1368]

Thanks for all this! It's especially helpful as I begin a different version of If Baseball Integrated Early, where baseball integrates from the beginning - in this one I focus on ownership instead of a superstar player not dying in the Civil War and holding the key to pushing integration. Looks like I might want to keep them out of the national association if it was so corrupt. :) and I know now also this one girl character, future wife of 1 owner, is a suffragist (She wears bloomers in the '60s when they are relatively new) her playing baseball with the boys is not that odd.

[@MrJmangini]

Your channel is fantastic!

[@richdouglas2311]

There's nothing surprising about being able to know the stats from the National Association. The first edition of the Baseball Encyclopedia (1969) contained every available statistic from every major league since...the National Association. I personally believe statistics prior to the establishment of the American League in 1901 should be separate. The game was so much different--rules, equipment, style of play. Sure, baseball has seen its ups and downs of hitting and pitching over the years, but the 19th century was, excuse for this, a whole different ball game.

[@user-sb1vz9pv5y]

What Old Hoss did was still amazing. You should read "Fifty-Nine in '84". Though i disagree with the author and the Baseball Professor. Old Hoss was not giving the bird. If you examine the photo close up you can see that its clearly a cigar. The color is darker than the other fingers. Its crumpled like a cigar. The size is way too big compared to the other fingers and it extends too far past the other knuckles. One knuckle would not be that far below the other knuckles. Sorry folks but it's just a cigar.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks for the recommendation. Fifty-Nine in '84 is on my list.

[@vegetableman4619]

When asked I always say, Baseball was the first thing I loved. In the sense that I could see how that works, go baseball! 😂

[@jacksmith5692]

BTW, Slide Kelly Slide had nothing to do with the mound, he was a catcher and drinker and died at age 36. He had been a star in Chicago and Boston. Mike King Kelly!

[@saurondp]

This is a great series of videos! If I may nitpick one thing, it's that you didn't take the opportunity in this video to include a photo of the South End Grounds in Boston, a great example of an early stadium built specifically for baseball. But that's just a personal nitpick. Otherwise, I find these videos pretty fascinating.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I plan to reissue my lectures next year. I think you're right. The South End Grounds could use a little more love.

[@MichaelCole-q2c]

I think you meant Albert Spalding, not Alfred, as his full name was Albert Goodwill Spalding if my memory serves me correctly. Otherwise, excellent presentation!!

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks for the note. I meant to say Albert. I'm going to re-record the lectures at some point. I won't forget to correct this error the second time around!

[@ticnatz]

Superb dissection.....

[@RonJohn63]

Travel was slow in the 1800s, so it's not surprising that the leagues were geographically centralzed.

[@stankatic8182]

The "picture " of Wee Willie Keeler is the baseball card of the day issued in cigarette packs..From the T206 series of tobacco cards .

[@tissuepaper9962]

"picture" is not synonymous with "photograph", no need for the condescending scare quotes.

[@stankatic8182]

@@tissuepaper9962 Aye aye Captain.

[@TheBatugan77]

​@@tissuepaper9962 No need for the snide remarks, snot-catcher.

[@TheBatugan77]

​@@tissuepaper9962 Cram it

[@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish.]

I drop # 2’s!!

[@rickkrause3594]

Wonderful lecture, bud! Just love it and all your great research. I’m learning quite a lot. By the way, did “Alfred” Spalding have a twin named Albert Goodwill Spalding?🤔

[@nilesmouser6670]

Work on your volume settings. Excellent and interesting content but hard to hear.

[@brayanomalley9758]

Harry and George Wright and others from the 1869 Red Stockings moved to Boston and established the franchise which became the Boston Braves (eventually) - not the Boston Red Sox.

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I need to reissue the lectures with greater clarity. Boston Red Stockings, Boston Reds, Boston. I always think of Harry Wright in that famous cigar advertisement...

[@TheBatugan77]

Great stuff! 🤓👍

[@thebaseballprofessor]

Thanks. I'm planning to re-release the lectures with more content in 2024.

[@jelambertson]

Hardball is mostly played by men because the ball is really hard.

[@mike2884]

Thank u!!!! I Learned a lot :)

[@maskranger38]

Good stuff 👏

[@kuvasz5252]

I have always been suspect of pitching records before 1894, the time when the pitching rubber was less than 60 ft 6 inches. Would we still record Cap Anson’s hits if the base paths were 83 ft instead of 90 ft, essentially the same comparison of 55 ft 6 inches vs 60 ft 6 inches?

[@thebaseballprofessor]

I see your point, but MLB has fiddled with the rules since 1894 (tigher wound balls, lowering the pitcher's mound, designated hitter, pitch clocks). League batting averages and league ERA have been relatively constant since 1876. I accept Cap Anson's career achievements albeit with a recognition of "park factors" and "era factors". The 1930s was an good time for hitters while our time is a good time for pitchers, but it's all within a certain range of balance between offensive and defense.

[@kuvasz5252]

Well spoken. After 1894 the only rule change about the dimensions of the playing field was the lowering of the mound 5 inches after “The Year of The Pitcher” in ’68. But, regardless of losing 5 inches of height from the mound, type of ball, DH, etc., there is only the 1894 demarcation of throwing the pitch at 60’6” that establishes the interior “battlefield” diamond dimensions as it stands today. All other changes are simply defining the tools to be used on that field. I don’t think record keepers would tally the scores of old basketball games and compare them with current players if the rim was nine feet tall. Or old NFL stats if the old field was only 90 yards. Yet, as you pointed out baseball or its publicity tenders were/are conservative, nativist, and protective of the history of the sport, and such questions are not to be uttered. Nevertheless, it makes for a good end-of-the-night, end-of-the-bar discussion. Btw Excellent lectures. @@thebaseballprofessor

[@caseysmith544]

Funny about Cricket and Rounders as Rounders is mostly a women's sport and Cricket is mainly a male sport with only places like NZ having women's Cricket league. Also, funny saying these sports that came from GB, in previous part 2 the sport of Rugby was one missed and that spawned 3 different sports from them Football USA/Canadian these two similar sports and Australian football a closer sport to Rugby.

[@markthomas2577]

Rounders was very much a female sport in the UK when I was young in the 1950s and 60s ..... girls played it at school, towns and districts of cities had leagues and it was very widespread, but it was all recreational, there was no professional game. Women's cricket is now booming in the UK, there are professional leagues and the same is true throughout the cricket playing world

[@caseysmith544]

@@markthomas2577 I fixed my post, I said the wrong thing.

[@TheBatugan77]

@@caseysmith544 👈😡 Next time, watch it!

[@paulhelman2376]

No! Watch DeWolf Hopper's "Casey " He by far did it best.

[@DarinHibbs1]

Please take the time to explore the sifference between a Democracy and a Republic

[@wvu05]

They are separate categories. All a republic means is that there is no monarch. A democracy refers to the right of people to decide. For example, France and Germany are democratic republics, China is an undemocratic republic, Spain is a democratic monarchy, and Saudi Arabia is an undemocratic monarchy.

[@SR-zc6lk]

Interesting, what morality are you referring to?

[@Bianca-bq6ut]

Und sie waren frontsoldaten und stukasflugbommbasoldaten

[@areguapiri]

Comparing George Wright who played in the brutal segregated era to Willie Mays who played against the best of all races is rather comical and bizarre.

[@DarinHibbs1]

a lecture on fairness...lol

[@danstone8783]

Demonry! Demonry!

[@theoabbot8822]

Outstanding info. Love this stuff. Unfortunately the narrator is very annoying. The constant smacking of the lips, the drama he attempts to inject, not necessary. The info is fascinating enough. Fix it and enough with the smacking. That must everyone else as well. So condescending.

[@BubbaStylefly]

What is this? Communist reviews baseball history?

[@mikewines7852]

🇨🇺

[@TheBatugan77]

🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳

[@paypig2652]

Bla bla bla bla

[@twinboeing]

then why did I have to pay an estate tax....well?!?!