Battery Desulfation Demonstration Start to Finish - Part 1/2

Battery Desulfation Demonstration Start to Finish - Part 1/2
In this video I demonstrate the full desulfation process using a lab style power supply and a lab style electronic load. After editing part1 of this video I realized it would be very boring so I set the project aside, but decided to pick it up again later on to finish it as I thought it was still informative. Please let me know if this is something that interests you.
Where to purchase the Lab Power Supply used in this video:
amzn.to/3fCunJp
Where to purchase the Electronic Load used in this video:
amzn.to/2V9yZx0
FTC Disclosure Statement:
Some links may be affiliate links. I may get a commission if products are purchased using the links provided.
I cannot guarantee against improper use of the information contained in this video, nor guarantee against unintended consequences of replicating what is seen in this video. I assume no liability for property damage or personal injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Be sure to read and follow all safety instructions for any equipment seen or implied in this video, and use safe practicies when working with potentially dangerous equipment. No information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user.

[@photopetersmug]

Thank you very much for the very helpful method. I have a 12V 12Ah battery which died and it didn't react on smart battery charger. Using your method I was able to recover the battery and use it. As I don't own lab equipment, 1st I have used 36V 4.5A adapter, the current was slowly rising from 0.01A to above 2 A over a day and battery gets very warm, batt. voltage at the end of the day was above 10V, which dropped to 8V overnight. So I started the cycle again next day. until the current rose to 3A, I stopped there as I don't own lab equipment, voltage at the end of the day was above 11V and dropped above 9V overnight. Next day I took laptop power supply 20V 4,5A and it took approx a day the current rose above 2A and batt. voltage was above 12V. Then I attached the smart charger, and it charged the battery overnight. I took few days but I can use it now.

[@knurlgnar24]

That's great! I much enjoy situations where people use what they have on hand to accomplish things that ordinarily wouldn't be possible without some knowledgeable creativity. Sometimes the best hammer you have on hand is a wrench, and sometimes the best pry bar you have on hand is a screwdriver. It works.

[@Drewboo1968]

There are thousands of us who are just happy to see you back Knurlgnar! You have always made the best inverter videos anywhere on KZbin.

[@knurlgnar24]

Thanks Drewboo!

[@simpletennesseelife5895]

Hip hip hooray the man is making videos!

[@Slimpickens45]

This is how I know we are headed to better times. Knurlgnar is back posting vids. Love it!

[@garbleduser]

Oh hell yes! Another knurlgnar24's hands video! Saturday is saved!!!

[@peterzeboroff7448]

Hi, excellent explanation. I hope you will also be doing switching power supply , chargers and inverter type repair videos like all the ones you did before. I very much enjoy your videos, thank you for the considerable time and effort that you must put into producing these videos for all of us that really enjoy watching them. I hope that the coming here will be very good and rewarding for you.

[@MisterEmoto]

I really missed your videos man. I'm a truck driver and your inverter videos helped me a ton

[@knurlgnar24]

Thanks! You truck drivers are underappreciated in my opinion!

[@curtchase3730]

Nice to see you back too! I loved the inverter reviews. I have learned that nearly all batteries that came from computer UPS's are usually toasted. I think they are just boiled dry. I have found a few bloated out too. The only batteries that stand a chance of recovery are ones that were simply neglected, under charged, sat on a shelf for 2+ years since new. There is no way of recovering a battery that has been cycled over and over to near dead everytime, or float charged at 15 volts like some UPS's can do. They're just pooped out.

[@knurlgnar24]

I agree. Most UPS units are designed for battery changes every couple of years and they 'boil' them dry fairly quickly by floating them at a high enough voltage to recharge them relatively quickly after use but low enough to avoid the cost of a multi stage charger. The old ubiquitous APC Smart UPS units float them at around 14V from what I've seen.

[@imzjustplayin]

All batteries can dry out which is a point that all battery manufacturers are aware of but never disclose to their customers. So when they say Gel and AGM are maintenance free, it's like saying transmission fluid is 'lifetime' fluid...yeah, for the lifetime of the vehicle which is a relative term. I think there needs to be more testing done by flooding AGM and Gel batteries to see how many if any are recoverable by adding water. AGM should have the best luck as I spoke with one manufacturer that told me they flood their AGM batteries with a typical water and sulfuric acid solution then dump out the excess in order for the battery to be classified as "AGM".

[@curtchase3730]

@@imzjustplayin Agree with your facts.

[@thepsycholist207]

Thanks for this. I have a 12v 20Ah SLA battery that I neglected and when I tested it, it was 6v. None of my smart chargers would touch it. I have a lab power supply and it never dawned on me to try that - even though I've used it before to charge batteries. Anyway, 24hrs later and it was taking 2Ah from the power supply. It's now charging on a normal charger which shows 20% charge. Even if it's not useful at the end of the exercise, it was fun!

[@mikek5206]

the reason "smart" chargers don't touch dead batteries is because they don't see a load and they have short circuit protection built in because dumb people like to shock themselves or start fires. you can trick them into seeing a load by putting a high-wattage resistor or incandescent light bulb in parallel w the battery.

[@2004grandcherokey]

Pleasant surprise to see activity from you channel again. Always impressed with your knowledge and manner of presentation. Plz continue to share.👍

[@chriskennedy7534]

Yah More please One of the few trustworthy sources on KZbin

[@StringerNews1]

Cats don't mind a little danger, they have nine lives! Eight lives. Seven. Better lock up the cat.

[@tylerfoster6670]

Knurlgnar rulz! Fantastic to enjoy regular content from you again - please don't burn out, you have lots of fans out here who understand if you need a break - just keep on creatin' !

[@Sylvan_dB]

Good to hear from you again! The other aspect of voltage and Ah capacity is the internal impedance, especially when discharging.

[@knurlgnar24]

Great point!

[@__-hh3gt]

Excellent demonstration video, greetings from Saudi Arabia.

[@RonGau]

good to see you back :) waiting for part 2, cheers 👏👌🍁🙋‍♂️😊👍😉

[@metalmogul4691]

Going to miss the videos that you do. Out here in cyber space your work has been well received.

[@JT-lq4yd]

Just the video I was looking for. Thanks!

[@teebosaurusyou]

Love the project room, a beer and el-Pussy-gato helping you out!

[@a.c.e.7568]

I have a U1 12V battery that sat for at least 4 years from my snowblower. I didn't bother maintaining it since I have had a snow clearing service. Anyway, it has been stored indoors just to make sure it didn't freeze. It read just over 6V and I decided to charge it with my new Pro-Logix PL2320 (at 2A)...I had to see if it worked. (all my other chargers are low current chargers/maintainers). Incredible, it took a charge and then went into maintenance mode. I did a load test at 100A and it dropped to 10V which it held. OCV a day later is 12.60V. I have done a few charge and load test cycles. So far so good.

[@tomgray971]

Since I have a bench supply, this works for me. Thank you.

[@chriskennedy7534]

Yah a new video Great to see you back 👍 I'm interested, just bought home a dozen of these from ups's that I picked up for a test run of my solar setup while I build the 18650 packs Look forward to part 2 And hope you make more, I've watched All you back catalogue

[@knurlgnar24]

Can't believe you made it through all of my boring monologues! I fear my love of lead acid batteries may become obsolete in time as lithium batteries get less expensive. :( I do expect insurance companies to ban lithium battery banks in houses in the near future though unless very onerous and expensive 'certified and inspected' government approved pre-built units are used. Unfortunately the law will likely blanket all types of batteries because government is lazy. Thanks lithium! ...

[@chriskennedy7534]

@@knurlgnar24 Haha, I thoroughly enjoyed them, a good mix of detailed infomation with your impressions thrown in, not long and boring but also not just edited highlights I only came across you a few years back when I started getting some free laptop batteries, so it was your inverter tests that attracted me Think I ended watching everything you'd published, so great to see new content Agree with your thoughts on lead acids future, they've served us very well with little change over the years and are definitely far safer than lithium Appreciate your reply, take care and wish you all the best

[@eDoc2020]

@@knurlgnar24 The 2017 National Electric Code has a new section 480.3 which reads as follows: "Storage batteries and battery management equipment shall be listed. This requirement shall not apply to lead-acid batteries." Based on this, I would expect insurance companies to ban homemade lithium banks, but allow lead-acid. At the very least lead acid banks will almost assuredly remain legal. I really don't know what sore of wording insurance companies would use to ban lithium banks, maybe capacity would be a factor.

[@MakerFabio]

Hi , thanks for the video. you look expert on the topic, and all the reasonings sound correct. Do you have any link or literature on this? I would like to have more details on how much current should I set for a 100Ah battery, with several hour process. what is the dependance with temp and so on (I'm desulfating my camper batt)

[@ranger175a2w]

we'd all love to see you making videos man!!

[@SidebandSamurai]

Good to see you back. Maybe you can do a video of you cleaning up your shop!

[@knurlgnar24]

NEVER! The chaos is what makes me feel ALIVE!!!

[@mikejones5358]

@@knurlgnar24 i agree when I clean my shop I can't find anything

[@jwrhynejr.6689]

Welcome back, knurlgnar!!! Always good informative pertinent video presentation greatly missed.

[@oddvardmyrnes9040]

Thank you. Very good explanation. It has shown me what I wanted to know.

[@tekdragon]

knurlgnar's hands are back from hiatus now too! :D fun fact, Evervolt's old school 9 volt batteries used to have a black and white cat in their logo not unlike yours! so i'd say that's very appropriate! enjoyed the video and looking forward to how it turns out in part 2

[@MishinFishin]

Glad to see you back !!!!

[@علاءالطحان-ب1ف]

I fixed about 20 batteey in the last month and make some money. I do not know how to Thank you sir for your effort and knowledge.

[@knurlgnar24]

Thanks for the comment! So many useful batteries are destroyed every year which could be used instead to reduce waste, increase overall wealth, and help the environment.

[@Rj-nh1df]

I have a feeling you are going to get noticed more in the near future. I would think of making more frequent videos on battery power and reviving.

[@knurlgnar24]

Thank you for the comment. I'm mostly inactive at this time but am considering reviving the channel in the future.

[@donham512]

glad to see you back ...

[@rickybobby1891]

The real deal is back!!! Would be cool to test the dc to dc chargers compared to direct alternator to house Batts in rv use.

[@knurlgnar24]

I actually have a video planned on converting an industrial power supply to a battery charger. I won't be comparing to an alternator setup but you can draw your own conclusions. In all honesty I'd personally recommend the dc/dc charger approach for most people. The alternator/engine approach is better for a prepper type as it's so simple, parts are easy to find, and it will last reliably for thousands of hours. On the other hand you never know when electronics will fail you.

[@rickybobby1891]

@@knurlgnar24 Yes , agreed, the heavy duty ,upgraded alternators or dedicated secondary alternator like the #humbleroad van builder George, uses does simplify the charging system.I use a simple 150 amp breaker switch like you demonstrated ,manual off and on close to the driver's seat and a couple deep cycle batts. seem to work fine for me.After engine/ alternator is turned off the batts seem to drop from 14 to around 12.8 volts. But they power a low grade, 1000 watt so called "pure sine wave" inverter to run a cpap breathing machine all night. The voltage drops to only about 12 volts. I was surprised it worked! With the "Vandweller RV" craze still strong, your channel could help a lot of "do it yourselfers." Thanks for all your knowledge and tips and testing! Cheers from Vancouver BC.

[@bullithedjames937]

I found your channel when you weren't making videos. And was like damn this is great. And I understand prison or children can inconvenience alot of doing things. LOL

[@elimaki4833]

Great informative video, thanks.

[@scruff7559]

I love your almost despondent; seen it all attitude. You're one of the few tell it like it is. I missed yer videos. The industry needs more good skins calling manufacturers out on their BS.

[@sharndhayanithi1856]

Good to see ya back man . Gosh I remember watching your first desulfating video has been too long . Can you also do a video why you will never get the rated AH on a lead acid battery please

[@fkbu271]

I've Really Missed Your Videos.

[@jameskrivitsky9715]

I watched part 2 and then came back to view part 1.....still good info. I have removed the cover and rubber caps ( valves ) to add distilled water with a syringe into the cells. Is there a way to check specific gravity so that I may mix acid and water to be close to original solution ? I did not know before about leaving some headroom over the plates for off-gassing to re-constitute. Thanks JwgK

[@knurlgnar24]

Unless the acid actually spilled only a trace amount of acid should have been lost. Distilled water should be the way to go.

[@lookoutleo]

i'll try this with my nackered old sealed acid batteries , they hold only a tiny charge and i do have an old charger and big 12v motor to discharge it , was thinking getting 2v cells from a forklift and trying those on my solar setup to get free power at night but here in scotland hard to find tham. thanks for posting

[@ThePapertank1]

i liked the vid please make part 2

[@knurlgnar24]

I never release part x until the full series is uploaded. Will be posted within the next week.

[@Ibian666]

What if you have a used battery that takes over 30w even when fully charged?

[@electron7373]

Welcome back!

[@biggj5813]

glad your back

[@phillcc8524]

with these "AGM " or maintenance free batteries if it's dry it A: won't charge , B:won't hold any charge for any length of time , opening the battery cover and adding water (not if it's a gel ) is the only way of successfully recharging /reconditioning

[@noahriding5780]

When you are desulfating, to get the best result quicker are you supposed to be charging the battery at the same time its being desulfated? or do you want the processes separate? Thank you.

[@knurlgnar24]

The charging step is what does the desulfating. Cycling the battery primarily does two basic things: 1: It allows you to judge your progress. 2: It physically stresses the plates causing shedding which exposes new active lead to the charging process, and helps to create stress cracks which allow conversion of additional sulfate into useful active material. Shedding isn't desirable but is an inevitable part of the process.

[@edtim3550]

Since you apply more then double the voltage to the battery would it not be safer to keep the current to half the recommended current ?

[@HaythamBuKhadra]

What happens if I leave a good deep cycle gel battery on a 15v desulfation cycle for an extended period of time? Thank you in advance.

[@knurlgnar24]

Gel batteries are very sensitive to outgassing so I'd guess the battery would be ruined if kept at 15V for an extended period of time. So long as the maximum charge specs for the battery are followed to avoid permanent gas pockets in the gelled electrolyte you'd be OK and the process should work - it would just take a long time since you're limited in how much current you can force through a gelled battery.

[@dashtesla]

Just like old days :D

[@jtnoodle]

Only does vids when a Democrat is gonna be President. LoL 😆

[@ambitious44]

:D

[@trollking6111]

Brute force, good idea.👍 Nice charger.

[@knurlgnar24]

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a battery. I think that's how the saying goes.

[@iwannamynickagain]

- My battery can accept up to 14.4V @ 4.5A for 1h for so called rapid charge ~65W. Atm I'm doing a 'force charging' with 2A current for 2h. Power supply shows me 16.22V and it is like this for 45min so far. I hope this 16.22V * 2A = ~32W is something my battery can take without damaging it. - If battery is heating up it means that energy is being wasted for electrolysis? Am I correct? - I understand that repeating a process of charging and discharging battery restores the capacity of the battery (up to some point), right? - I don't have such fancy discharger, so I have to think about it how to discharge it properly. What can you suggest? Is lightning bulb ok? Update: I've ischarged the battery with a 55W car bulb. According to my calculations it should last for 1h45min before voltage will reach 10,5V on a battery. IT ends after 15minutes.. whcih menas my old battery is at 15,6% capacity... After discharging I've started fast charging battery with forcing 4.5A for 1h. The voltage went up to 16.5V. The battery was warm (not hot) I would say like body temperature. what's interesting is that during this charge I was reducing a voltage to 14.4V from time to time to see how big current can be accepted for such voltage and it looks like with every test it wanted to accept more. After 1h I've reduced the current to 2A (the voltage dropped to 16,04V). I kept testing 14.4 V Once I've found that the 14.4V can accept at least 1A I used an 'intelligent charger' (which can give max 1A) and finished battery charge. After 1h of battery charge process it still holds 13.14V which I think is a good sign. Tomorrow I'm going to do a discharge of it to see for how long will it last this time.

[@frankiebroadsight6468]

Nice video and Brother Clean up that room you will feel better and have positive energy to do your hobbies again lol. Put those batteries under the table stacked. Clean that shelf and get that lab equipment setup on your desk. Start just by cleaning garbage. You can do it just 15-20 mins a day will get that room in TOP shape in 1 week. From one hobbiest to another you need it man. When my work table is messy I cant even solder a wire properly. I know you know, But sometimes a little modivation goes along way. Please dont take this as an insult I truly feel like you are holding yourself back large !

[@knurlgnar24]

I don't take it as an insult and I know you're right. Trouble is the space I have is just too small and I have much more 'stuff' than shown in the video - or in that room. (Three rooms and a garage with 'junk') Each time I've cleaned it's ended up a mess after the next project because I don't have a place to put anything permanently and it's a huge pain to move things every time I want to use them. A single dedicated garage stall attached to a 600ft^2 hobby room would do nicely. Then I could put solar panels on the garage roof and...

[@frankiebroadsight6468]

@@knurlgnar24 I hear you! The Room I do Projects in is my bedroom/studio/repairshop LOL, but my advice to you with the small space issue is you must be organsized and space will magically find its way to you like you never seen before. Make one Room your Designated Hobby Stop Shop. Get the garage to hold tupawears so that you can stack them and write with a marker what things are. 200$ Worth of bins shoud fix you right up. Stack as much as you can neatly making sure things are in the right place as it will save you time and headache later, Bundnles Chargers from laptops etc.Thats for the stuff you dont use often... As per for the projects try to have that last room setup with shevling and a table so that you can make it a " Project ROOM". Only projects you will get done within 1 year or so. Youre a smart dude and I know you have so much more to offer us ! Thanks for the Reply now get Hustling = ) MAD LOVE

[@rongray4118]

I am attempting to recover a Absolyte 48 volt, 2000 amp hour battery... I am trying to learn this process. Is it possible to remove each 2 volt cell and independently charge each cell to a state of charge? I am hoping to achieve as many cycles as I am able. Am I out of my mind for even attempting?

[@TheBlairHouseProject]

Great vid... nice to see someone technical doing this vs some idiot with a stick welder not monitoring anything voltage or current wise. Would have liked to see the drop in resistance being measured tho! Thanks again!

[@knurlgnar24]

Conductance meter measurements would have been a useful addition. I agree.

[@4260353042]

your videos are great

[@gordonfrank]

If a car battery charger only uses ~14-15 volts to charge and say 20-30 amps, why are the cables so heavy vs the cables on your CC CV power supply that appars to have 10 ga wire at most? Good video..

[@knurlgnar24]

Modern car alternators can output 100A to 150A to power all the electronics cars have nowadays. Some can do over 200A. Heavy wiring is needed for such loads and the starter consumes many times more amps - though for a short time. 20 years ago there were instances of fires caused by inadequate design choices of wire gauge on vehicles. e.g. install a 'new' battery that was low on charge and it accepts the full 80A output of your 1999 ford escort and after 10 minutes straight of that current through the 10AWG wire they chose to use and you had a problem.

[@michaelh465]

Good information!

[@corvairkid17]

I would "fix" dead car batteries with a dummy charger and a multimeter. When it would stay under 16v with 125a.for more than 5 seconds; it was ready to float charge 👍

[@knurlgnar24]

An old mechanic's trick is to simply connect a battery to a dumb charger and let it 'boil' away. It worked. Not a refined approach but it was simple and most people aren't interested in wasting their time on such things when there are customers to serve. There are many approaches to this.

[@DoItNowMotors]

Would this work if a vehicle battery is at 550 CCA when rated at 710 CCA?

[@knurlgnar24]

Probably not unless the battery is only low on CCA due to sulfation. The most likely scenario is that the battery is simply old and needs replacing soon. Then again 550CCA should be plenty for most any vehicle even during the winter.

[@mikegauthier1770]

So if I understand correctly, best way to charge a battery is to put very high voltage with lowest current possible ?

[@knurlgnar24]

For desulfating that is an option. For general charging I wouldn't recommend this method.

[@allegrofallegrof]

When should cell caps be taken off?

[@johnscarborough6220]

Any differentiations on doing this for a 6V battery versus 12V?

[@knurlgnar24]

Nope. Just a lower voltage. The rest is the same.

[@uzugiulio84]

Thanks for sharing! What do you think about reverse charging? I'm trying to recover for fun and study some agm ups batteries that are dead because they were on float charge for some year on the ups and maybe the ups charger doesn't manage the float charge properly and after 2-3 years batteries are dead. In this situation you approach can be useful? In the past, before whatching this video, the only way to let batteries accept charge was to reverse charge them, discharge and recharge with the proper polarity. One of these accepts only reverse charge even if I put 32v on it with correct polarity... another one that I "recovered" with reverse charge and after correct charge, emits an hiss from time to time under charge even if I use less current than the maximum rated initial current printed on the battery that is a FIAMM agm battery 12ah 12v.. another one was under forced charge at 22v and 0,5 amp (it is a 4.5ah 12v ups agm battery) for 8 hours a day for 5 days but still can't hold the charge.. in short, up to now no appreciable result, unfortunately... I will appreciate every advice you will give, thank you very much!

[@knurlgnar24]

Interesting timing on this comment as I am currently doing some practical experimentation on reverse charging. There are whitepapers out there on the subject and it is absolutely legit if used properly in the right circumstances, but it has to be the RIGHT circumstances. Most UPS units overcharge the batteries and positive plate corrosion or water loss is the precipitator of failure and desulfation or reverse charging will not help. Reverse charging can improve plate activation or help the desulfation process though. It is more aggressive than the methods I typically use but I think I may have found a common use case for it hence my current testing. I think you're on to something here... BTW the 'hiss' you hear is likely due to the battery outgassing excessively. This could be due to a multitude of reasons but there likely isn't much to do about it other than add water as necessary. Sometimes an old battery is just an old battery. None of these methods are magic as you're well aware, they just allow us to make maximum use of otherwise discarded batteries.

[@uzugiulio84]

@@knurlgnar24 Thanks for your reply! Then, can we soon expect a new reverse charging based video? 😁

[@IAMElectric369]

9 times outa 10 you gotta pop that cap and add distilled water to the six cells. Then, you gotta charge it from a constant source such as a good fully charged battery or your bench supply.

[@knurlgnar24]

This is true - except most of the time a battery that is 'dried out' has been damaged sufficiently that it won't be restorable anyway.

[@IAMElectric369]

@@knurlgnar24 yeah, its hit and miss

[@Ronnock]

Used in home medical equipment for stairlifts.

[@donowens5883]

It miight work to make desulfation unit?

[@rogertyler3237]

I Finally Got The Old Battery's Out Of My Power chair. Tomorrow I'm Installing My New Battery's.

[@azariayehezkel9064]

who say that's battery holding load?

[@smithgrege]

Nice 'This Old Tony' hand wave @18:20

[@allegrofallegrof]

Thanks. Is there some typical temperature one should never exceed while charging the lead-acid battery? Or is the only issue with temperature indirect: boiling water and exposing the plates to air - so that one should care only about supplying water and its spill-over as far as the temperature problem is concerned?

[@knurlgnar24]

Since reaction rate doubles about every 10c once the battery becomes 'hot' to the touch it is beginning to be too hot. 110F or 120F is generally the cutoff point for when a person needs to stop or risk damaging the battery or spilling acid. Different batteries have different specs so without looking up any specific battery that would be my general recommendation.

[@rickweaver8233]

Hello, your videos are extremely informative and THANK YOU! I have a golf cart with 6 8v batteries. How can I use the same concepts? I have the 48v charger from Club Car, but how can I deal with one battery at a time, both for charging and for a load?

[@knurlgnar24]

That particular charger doesn't allow overcharging for extended periods of time (I know because I have one) so you will have to use a different charger if your batteries are sulfated from storage at low SOC. The best option today in my opinion is to purchase a power supply as shown in this video - it doesn't have to be this particular one, just one that can do 60+ volts to charge the full battery bank. Let it overcharge for a time and then drive the cart until it dies and repeat. If your range increases the issue was sulfation. If it doesn't your battery issue was something else this video isn't covering.

[@rickweaver1562]

@@knurlgnar24 Hi, and thanks for your thoughtful reply. I was thinking about refurbishing them one at a time - my concern was that if I did them all, I would get them to "good enough" as a group, and one or more would still be needing work. Doing them one at a time would let me pay each one its needed attention. And I know I can use your 30v charger for them, but was wondering how to give the batteries an 8v load. My thought after I sent the original message was to get some 12v incandescent RV light bulbs and use those for a load (they would work as a load but just be dimmer than at 12v). Do you think this would be the most comprehensive approach, or am I overthinking it and that "good enough" is fine for this application? I don't think I can stomach that nice programmable load unit price for my few batteries. And driving the cart until it dies is a little problematic since I'd have to push it back to its corral... ;-) Unless there's a way to create a 48v load???

[@rickweaver8233]

@@knurlgnar24 I had a thought about how to load only ONE of the 8v batteries. Could I just hook up one 12v car headlamp? They are 55 watt max and at 8v that would be 7 amps if they draw that much. What do you think?

[@rickweaver8233]

@@knurlgnar24 I purchased this power supply, so I can deal with the batteries one at a time. I hesitate on the price of the load generator you use although I'd love to have that. How can I cobble together a recommended load for one 8v battery? How many car headlamps, for instance? And in series, or parallel?

[@allegrofallegrof]

Your equipment inspired me so much that I am about to buy a profesional battery tester which has CC mode for discharging (with settable voltage cut-off) and CV mode for charging (with settable current cut-off). It has even automatic 5 step charging/discharging cycles (2.5 cycles max.) and you use an external charger, which gives you the option of using either a dumb or smart charger. What do you think about such a device and are there better below $300 (incl. shipping)? It seems that more cycles would be better but how about safety of such automatic charging/discharging cycles with no monitoring other than one temperature probe with wireless data streaming? The temperature probe I am going to use would come as an additional equipment from Riden DC power supply and the battery tester I am talking is by some Chinese manufacturer by the name ZKETECH - model EBC-B20H - which has also a PC software with some extra features like discharge graph plotting but I have yet to see it (which may be difficult given the Chinese only website of the producer, assuming it is available there).

[@knurlgnar24]

Any lead acid battery has some risk of catastrophic failure, so charging should be done in a location where a boil-over or battery explosion won't cause a severe problem if it happens when unattended. That said the main risk is acid burns and that isn't really an issue for unattended applications. I personally like the cheap lab power supply as shown here, but I can see value in automatic setups too. A long time ago I used a Arduino type device to automatically cycle a relay to discharge-cycle a battery for cycle testing. The charger was simply left connected continuously. It works fine and you could set something like that up for well under $50 if you wanted to invest the time. A purpose made device like what you're talking would be better though if you're not on a poor student budget like I was.

[@allegrofallegrof]

​@@knurlgnar24 Should I worry about fire in unattended handling of lead-acid batteries - be it charging, discharging, or storing? You seem to have said that only the acid burn (of body and objects) or contamination might be a problem with this type of batteries, not a fire.

[@johnrubensaragi4125]

@@allegrofallegrof Lead-acid battery can produce hydrogen gas, especially when overcharged. Hydrogen gas is highly flammable, as Hindenburg accident told us. So, locate the battery in well-ventilated area, and yes, put away fires and sparks.

[@kai990]

Great video, please produce more content and include your cat :)

[@knurlgnar24]

My cat produces many things but tends to leave them in hard to find places sometimes.

[@kai990]

@@knurlgnar24 Maybe you should dedicate a video to this topic :3

[@allegrofallegrof]

Thanks for the really instructive video. What are the chances of reconditioning success when closed-valve VRLA batteries (like the one on this video) loose open-circuit voltage rather quickly after charging (and not using)? What could be the reason for the voltage drop? It can drop to a few volts or even below 1V after a month or a few.

[@knurlgnar24]

Not good to be honest but may be worth a try if they're somewhat valuable batteries. If they're dried out you may need to add water. Sulfated batteries do lose voltage fairly quickly after charging but they shouldn't drain down to 1V unless there are other issues.

[@allegrofallegrof]

​@@knurlgnar24 I thought this type of batteries as you have reconditioned here is totally sealed and there's no way of refilling anything there. But can I refill the water and seal everything as it was? It is really important due to the application of those batteries I am going to recondition, which is e-vehicle. I guess they do those batteries for e-vehicles sealed, i.e. with no obvious way to get to the cells, for a reason of high mobility, but on the other hand, there are car batteries with rather easy way to refill the water, so there may very well be no reason for sealing other than forcing users to buy more. What do you think? Will there be any difference in my chances of resealing the sealed batteries after refilling? Isn't that the only difference between the sealed batteries and non-sealed ones is the plastic cover topping the otherwise exact same caps of cells (same as in those car batteries I mentioned where I guess the very manufacturer allows the user to refill its battery from time to time)?

[@hts12341]

@@allegrofallegrof I think if you're talking e-vehicle battery banks there is hectic danger due to high voltage, compared to a 12V battery. If you keep in mind that electrolyte is "live", the hazard/chance of electrocution sounds too high to be worth doing, or is there a safe way to break the battery bank into 6-cell blocks before fiddling with acid levels? I'm just worried...

[@allegrofallegrof]

Thanks. Do you think it makes sense to keep charging a sulfated battery every two months for a few hours with a smart charger before one desulfurates it properly, like in your video? Will it be beneficial for such a battery or not? The detail description of the situation: Many a time I have seen that after being in seemingly non-charging mode, a smart charger switched to charging probably because the voltage on a sulfated battery reached some threshold after many hours of being hooked to the charger. Therefore, even if there is no such ignition of the charger due to the battery not reaching the voltage threshold (which is most probable in this periodic charging of the batteries of mine), there may be some charging going on, which is beneficial to the sulfated battery. But the question is: Will it be beneficial or not?

[@knurlgnar24]

I agree with you completely here. A 'smart charger' which in reality is super stupid will give up on charging a sulfated battery much too early. If you repeatedly use it to attempt to charge a sulfated battery it will slowly desulfate it in many cases. It's not an ideal solution to the problem but sometimes after a few cycles the charger will finally decide "OK, I guess this battery is worth charging so I'll give it an honest shot".

[@allegrofallegrof]

​@@knurlgnar24 And what if a sulfated battery does not desulfurate slowly but deteriorates slowly with time despite such a periodic charging with the smart charger in a "non-charging" state? Does it make a difference to keep charging them periodically in this way? Unfortunately, I can't say if it deteriorates (in terms of open-circuit voltage) slower or not with this kind of "charging." And even if it deteriorates slower, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is beneficial to the battery, does it?

[@keiths1400]

just saw you have a ton of amazingly helpful off grid vids... thanks muchly... any hope for my crown 420ah l16s(2 in series at 12v) that drop down to 12.6 volts after sundown due to my ignorance in having had an under powered pv setup when i got them? they got drained down to 11.7v almost every night for the first month i used them and never got fully recharged during the day. so now if i disconnect the charger they slowly drop down from @13.9 to 12.6 over a cpl hours with no load. they will mabey loose another .1v overnight if i have no load but if i run them down to 12.2v they are still at 12.2 in the morning. i feel like they are good candidates for salvation compared to what you used for demos. can this be over a period of days on and off? any help not ha having to replace this wasted 600 dollar battery bank would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[@knurlgnar24]

I can pretty much guarantee that you can restore those batteries to near 100% without much trouble. If it's only been a few months of damage due to undercharging it will be almost completely reversible. I'd need a specific model number to give specific advice, but whether these are AGM, flooded lead antimony, flooded lead calcium, or pure lead makes a difference in the details. (I will assume flooded of some chemistry) The short of it is I would recommend disconnecting or turning off the solar and inverters and doing an extra long equalization charge. Crown likely recommends something like 5 hours for maintenance purposes but since yours are damaged they will need more than that - maybe a full day. Keep an eye on temperatures and electrolyte level during this time. If you have a hydrometer keep charging until sg stops rising in all cells. After that do a deep discharge, log the result, and do a normal full recharge followed by the crown recommended equalization charge. Repeat. Once your capacity result during the discharge tests stops rising you are done and given your situation it will probably take only 1 or 2 cycles. Obviously the most important thing is to not let them get damaged in the first place but life isn't ideal and these things happen - fortunately it's not a big deal as long as the situation is rectified in a reasonable amount of time.

[@keiths1400]

@@knurlgnar24 thanks so much .... I am completely off grid so I can't charge them externally I can set my charge controllers To equalization voltage for a few hours at a time a few days per week...will this eventually do it? If not since I am switching to Chinese prismatic 3.2v x16 for 48v sometime this winter and run an external charger then. (BTW they are a pair of crown CR-430 6v in series.) and these big fla are to expensive and too heavy to junk... Awesome info ...hope you get back to it Thanks again for the reply.

[@bobcharles7716]

Hay. I have no problem getting two car size lead flooded battery to a rest voltage of 12.4, 12.5 volts. The problem I have is when I hook up the battery to any load like 65W headlight. The voltage drops to below 12v immediately and I get at most get a few minutes before it get below 11 volts. Cycling does seem improve it. Are my batteries toast at this point?

[@knurlgnar24]

If overcharging them and cycling them while keeping electrolyte levels topped off doesn't improve them then your batteries are likely 'toast'. They do have a finite life unfortunately. Sulfation is one of the most common abuses they suffer and THAT can be recovered. Worn out batteries that have lived a good life and have no more to give just have to be replaced.

[@bobcharles7716]

@@knurlgnar24 These are fairly new batteries less than 5 years old. In my case here being able to get the rest voltage to 12.5v or above but with no capacity. You think overcharging it more would help. Because I stop over charging (switch to a smart charge) once I get the rest voltage to 12.5v.

[@SinsBird]

​@@bobcharles7716 you must measure the specific gravity of each cell with a hydrometer if you want to find out what is going on.

[@ayalaamaury]

Long time no see.

[@woodwood5164]

I can not get it to set to CV, it defaults to CC, is that the problem?

[@3dcsheldon]

Attempting to desulfate a marine battery. Charged voltage at 13.5 volts but has no cranking amps so I am assuming it's badly sulfated. I bought a power supply and I'm pumping 16 volts 8 amps DC and the electrolyte is bubbling occasionally and as time goes on the amps are dropping, is this normal?

[@knurlgnar24]

Sounds normal. Be sure to keep the water topped up. Batteries can't always be saved so you'll have to see if yours can.

[@atomicdmt8763]

try the welder method? speeds things up............

[@knurlgnar24]

I wouldn't recommend using a welder as a battery charger. They aren't intended for that and have a high inductance output which is dangerous for battery applications. (but good for welding)

[@atomicdmt8763]

@@knurlgnar24 THANKS-- i did see this method however....... dialed in to around 30A input: speeds up force restore/desulf. Thoughts? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIrXnKFjg8SjatU

[@arie5631]

Hii very nice information, but i have question I use the gell battery when it is full 13.2 volts and get a load of 2a baterai drops 11 volts, how to fix it sir? Thanks

[@knurlgnar24]

It depends on the battery. If it is a smaller battery that may be normal simply due to charge mobility and internal resistance, but if it is a larger battery, say 20Ah or larger then that isn't normal. Gel batteries are more difficult to restore as any 'bubbles' are permanent and damaging. To desulfate a gel battery you would need a very mild overcharge for a long period of time.

[@arie5631]

@@knurlgnar24 thank you for answering the battery that I use is 12 volt 100a, when I charge it with 14.2 for a few seconds it is immediately full with a voltage of 13.2 volts. for 2 days the voltage is still 13.2 volts but when given a load of 2a it immediately drops to 12 volts, and then the load is released voltage back to 13 volts again, is this due to sulfation or maybe the cell dry? I've used the method you used to recover battery before and it worked very well thank you for your information sir

[@donowens5883]

Can you repair optima batteries I've never seen an optima battery repaired optima battery has been the number one failure in the past I have not been able to repair an optima battery and I wonder why?

[@knurlgnar24]

They are AGM so there isn't much to 'repair' aside from that they can be desulfated just like any other lead acid battery. The process is identical to what I show in this video aside from currents being a bit higher due to the larger battery size.

[@donowens5883]

Way to celebrate hard work.

[@lloydrmc]

You should link your traditional charger version. I own one of those.

[@stephenjohnson802]

So, this type of lab power supply wouldn't work for restoring car batteries would it, with 100s of amps?

[@knurlgnar24]

Yes, this would work well for car batteries. Car batteries only require a few amps to desulfate.

[@stephenjohnson802]

@@knurlgnar24 Ah, ok, thanks for that clarification. I suppose the importance of what you are demonstrating here is the higher voltage but only a few amps. Is this lab power supply then also sufficient for charging a regular car battery?

[@El_Grincho]

Trying something similar with a trash picked 12V SLA , but at about 10 times the voltage. (and, at a much much lower current)

[@علاءالطحان-ب1ف]

you should call your self a professor. question i have a flooded battery i measure each cell with multi meter and only one cell give me -0.3 v instead of 2 volt. can i recondition that cell assume i do all safety procedure by put negative terminal of lab power supply on that cell and positive terminal in the main positive terminal of the battery? thank you a lot.

[@knurlgnar24]

If you have access to each individual cell you can desulfate each cell separately. It sounds like you have a single cell inversion where the cell reformed in reverse polarity. This is pretty common and somewhat difficult to rectify unless one has access to the inverted cell. With lead calcium batteries in particular this is quite common as manufacturers add dopants to the 'good' cells to cause them to leak current as much as the 'worser' cells so that the user doesn't end up with the problem you have. Chemistries with higher intrinsic leakage currents don't need this dopant which only makes good cells worse. This disrupts the battery chemistry as they age and leakage rates change though - cost cutting right? Anyway, I'd suggest desulfating just that one cell first if you are able to access it. Be sure to keep the water to the proper level at all times. Wish you the best.

[@Steve_Just_Steve]

How do you know if you have a shorted cell? Will it heat up fast or how do you test for it? Thanks.

[@knurlgnar24]

'shorted' isn't exactly correct, but a cell with high internal self-discharge. The bad cell will show up in a discharge voltage curve, or if you set it on a shelf for an hour, day, week, etc eventually it will settle to a voltage of about 2.2V too low.

[@Steve_Just_Steve]

@@knurlgnar24 Thanks for taking the time reply!

[@douglaswindsor120]

What I would love to see is how to make a modified sine wave inverter to pure sine wave I know I can get a triplite line conditioner unit that will do that but the video I watched on that the unit was around 100 $unfortunately up here in Canada with our lower dollar it's around 140 $ that not too bad but the killer is the almost 300 $ shipping cost I can buy a new 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter for less years ago before utube I bought a 1750 watt modified sine wave inverter then about 3 years later a friend gave me another one and about 3 years ago my brother bought one for his camper just before he passed away he gave me the camper so I now have 3 1750 modified sine wave inverters since then I found utube and found out that modified sine wave is bad for sensitive electronics and not good for anything with a motor like fridge furnace and pumps that's why I looked into the triplite 1800 line conditioner I've seen your video on how to join 2 together to double the wattage I've also seen a video on how to join 2 together to make a110 220 split phase inverter there's even a video on how to make a a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter but I can't find anything on how to convert what I got to pure sine wave

[@SearchFT]

Wow, thanks for this video. Great info. I have a 20A battery that makes sounds if I pulse it at 16v 4A. After 30min I smell rotten eggs coming from it. I guess it's also sulfated. The battery doesn't get hot. Is it safe to keep it charging? I use a desalfating charger.

[@knurlgnar24]

There is always some danger in charging lead acid batteries due to their nature so charging in a safe environment and wearing eye protection is always recommended. Battery explosions usually occur due to bus bar failures or other such events that result in an arc inside the battery gas envelope. They are rare but inevitable even during normal use. The older a battery is the more likely these catastrophic failures are to occur. As long as you are being safe knowing the potential dangers and the battery temp stays reasonable I don't see any specific danger in continuing. This really isn't any more dangerous than ordinary charging/equalizing which lead acid battery users do every day without thinking twice about it. Given your description I suspect you may have a lead-antimony battery? Those outgass a LOT when old and will require a very high current to desulfate. I'm not particularly fond of those batteries due to their smelly, messy, splattery, gas producing nature but they are the usual choice for industrial mobility such as forklifts and floor scrubbers.

[@SearchFT]

@@knurlgnar24 thank you. I placed the battery in a save spot and kept the charger on it. It went passed the desulfation fase and it taking the charge now. It is a new battery, so I assume it was just standing very long on the shelf. Will keep it charging 'till fully charged. Thank you for the advice. I'm always concerned about safety first 😀

[@knurlgnar24]

@@SearchFT Sounds promising! If the battery was new and unused but neglected I expect you will be able to recover it to nearly new condition with only a little work.

[@SearchFT]

@@knurlgnar24 thanks. Yes, I bought two, so the other one is next in lline. Thanks for the great content. When I saw you apply the 31V to that 7.2A battery I felt much relieve, since my charger applies 15V-16V @2A in pulsating mode to desulfate the battery. Will do the next one soon. Thanks again.

[@allegrofallegrof]

BTW, I have investigated further the device I am going to buy and it turns out it has ability for setting many more charging/discharging cycles, also the instruction of software looks promising and has compatibility from Win XP to Win 10). The problem is I can't get a reliable information on max. discharging power. Instead, in comparison spec table there is "Resistor" word unlike for most other models of the producer for which the table have clearly the value of the max power. The manufacturer does not answer my questions. What do you think? Logically, one could assume that max. power would be the product of max voltage and max current but unfortunately in majority of this type of devices the max power is much less and therefore a producer states it clearly as a separate datum is specs. On the other hand, the word "Resistor" means nothing to me, after all a resistor has its max power too... Does anyone have a good solution to this puzzle?

[@archdukeofsynth]

Every single AGM battery I've had has gone bad due to an internal short eventually (in a UPS, electric wheelchair, car, etc.), so any revitalization attempt was useless in the end . I have one that's 12 year old that's still going, though.

[@knurlgnar24]

That's very interesting to me considering that I have never had an internal short in an AGM battery out of the dozens I have personally used over the past 2 decades including one that had a gigantic dent in it due to physical trauma. It is certainly possible in an AGM battery to have shorts but more difficult than flooded due to the dense fiberglass mat that needs to be punched through before a short can occur. Perhaps your batteries or use applications are different from mine. No argument though that a battery which has a short cannot be desulfated using the method shown here.

[@paradiselost9946]

add a resistor. mains voltage bulb is good. any wattage, doesnt matter. high wattage will flow a bit more. i run a 45V supply. fine. 35v@10A. unregulated transformer. wack a dead battery straight on. give it a tickle. ten second type thing. few times. will see if its going to do anything pretty quick. then throw a bulb on in series. at this point an auto bulb should be ok... the battery still has the voltage drop, and the bulb doesnt drop much at all... after a while it will start heating up, both bulb and battery. once the (12v) bulb is glowing, its starting to pull enough current to drop its required 12v... stop. now youre better to run a heater, a steady resistance rather than a bulbs varying resistance. or change to your 120/240V bulb. something which can just keep dropping volts without burning out. ive got 150R 100W thing, so yeah... 45V on it, only tickles very gently... currently, an 11Ah is nibbling on 300mA, at 14.2V. three days so far, up from about 10... was completely dead on arrival. but the batteries bounce up, slowly bubble, stay cold... and the electrolyte level RISES. because the water is held in the spongey sulfated plates... not as water but in teh sulfate itself. the electroplating process of actual charging takes a certain current, surface area. you need enough voltage so it can always draw current, but it also needs to be limited so its only drawing current as the CHARGING PROCESS REQUIRES. as soon as you let more current flow than the chemical process wants. it becomes an electrolysis cell, and the current is being dissipated as HEAT... you are wasting power on simply driving current through the electrolyte doing nothing, and current to break water down without performing the actual chemical process required to form good plate structures... when a battery is charging correctly, it DOES NOT GET HOT. not even warm. all the energy goes into the chemical process of plating, not heating. its really similar to electroplating because it IS electroplating... its worth playing with it... gives you a much better understanding. throw a resistor in and yep, just run em at a silly high input voltage. the current and voltage will find their own rate as the power is wasted mostly in the resistance. then a heavy discharge. then recharge... cycle them. they love it. but DONT STOP when cycling... its again, just like electroplating. if you stop during charge or discharge, you just make onion skin. gotta keep it steady, all the way, then ramp them back up. approach them with the idea you are trying to break down a previously formed onion skin and replace it with solid electroplated metal. only time i will stop one is during that initial rescue, i occasionally give them a wack of the full 45V again, get a good feel of how theyre behaving if you run a meter on them... with an unregulated supply ;) just tap tap tap, can see how fast they pull up and overvolt, along with the current draw... then rebound. and the fully charged voltage is much higher than the label states... 2.7V or so per cell before the actual process is finished. 16.2 volts! DONT FLOAT THEM.

[@knurlgnar24]

Your advice sounds like a video I made years earlier. It works too.

[@bazrazin1]

i have two batteries a car 12v/40AH flooded type & a bike 12V 5AH maintenance free both cannot start the engines but do show the voltages, even get charged, can i fully recover them.

[@knurlgnar24]

It depends on their history, but unless they sat unused for long periods of time their problems are likely not sulfation. Your batteries may have simply reached their end of life and need replacing with a new battery. Motorcycle batteries in particular tend to have short lives as they usually use higher acid concentrations to boost performance at the trade-off of useful life.

[@oojimmyflip]

try 17.6 volts that is the setting my battery repair charger uses for 12 volt acid based batteries.

[@inoahmann7542]

I have 6 8ah 6v lead acid batteries. They are 6 years old and have never been used. The voltage dropped to around 0.5v each. I tried CC at 1a for an hour on each battery and all of them immediately dropped to 2-3v when I took off the charger. Is there anything else I can try before throwing them out?

[@knurlgnar24]

I have a couple of videos on recovering sulfated batteries. They may be worth checking out. If your batteries are old and never used it is highly likely that you will be able to recover them to a condition that is slightly less than perfect but very usable.

[@inoahmann7542]

@@knurlgnar24 I have seen them, they were definitely helpful. Over the last couple years your videos have saved me hundreds of dollars of batteries. Unfortunately it seems at least 4 of the 6 batteries have internally shorted in at least one cell. I just had one of them swell up like a balloon while I wasn't watching, lol. I guess I've tried everything at this point. The charging the voltage would slowly drop from 35v down to around 10v at 1a. The battery would stay just barely warm and then the voltage would drop to around 3v and the battery would get super hot in less than 20 seconds. This happed for 4 of the 6. Is there something I'm doing wrong or are these batteries just toast?

[@timcat1004]

9 times out of 10 my ups batt's are extremely warped. I would never do this on them.

[@knurlgnar24]

Batteries that have deformed should be recycled ASAP. Agreed.

[@elimaki4833]

Do you think I could do this with a 36 volt scooter charger, 1.5 amp?

[@knurlgnar24]

Doubtful, the charger will likely refuse to charge it.

[@ElGatoLoco698]

11% , that's a strong brew.

[@knurlgnar24]

The best beer pours and looks like tar in my opinion. But if it's hot out and I'm thirsty something like Coors Light hits the spot. I'm a mixed bag I guess.

[@ItsMeHannes]

What a cool video! Can I use that Digital Led charger on a 12V 105ah DEEPCYCLE Battery (VDC31M) ?

[@knurlgnar24]

Yes, the power supply shown here would work for that battery just the same as this little one - it just might take longer.

[@ItsMeHannes]

​@@knurlgnar24 Thanks for your answer! I have one bad cell in my 12V 105ah DEEPCYCLE Battery. I drilled holes in the top... So I can check the fluid bubbling... but one cell is not bubbling... Is there a way to repair? Maybe with one of the machines you use..??

[@ItsMeHannes]

@@knurlgnar24 And is it wise to buy a heavier KORAD power supply for my 12V 105ah DEEPCYCLE Battery?