Battle of the Ports - DonPachi (首領蜂) Show

Today is a short video but it is a great one. We are going to take a look at Cave's very first Arcade shooter, DonPachi.
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Time Code
00:22 - Arcade
03:22 - Saturn
06:20 - PlayStation
09:12 - All versions running side by side
Enjoy!

[@ncf1]

The DonPachi story is more believable than what's happening today.

[@RetroCore]

Lol, your not far off there.

[@NightSprinter]

Ah, the first true entry of the danmaku subgenre. Fun fact for anyone new to bullet hell: CAVE (and also Raizing) were formed by employees of Toaplan when they went out of business (I think Toaplan's last game was Twin Cobra II). Also for folks who loved Toaplan's games: M2 is going to release that entire catalog for modern consoles!

[@Bloodreign1]

Twin Cobra II was done by Takumi, with some former Toaplan employees onboard to do the game. It is said Batsugun was the original Toaplan company's last game, and they went out on a high note with Batsugun.

[@NotEnoughSound]

@@Bloodreign1 I have Twin Cobra II for the Saturn, lovely game

[@NightSprinter]

@@Bloodreign1 I didn't know it was developed by Takumi. I only remember it coming out with the Toaplan name. In that case, yeah, Outzone and Batsugun are definitely their last and greatest entries. Batsugun especially for having the patterns that predated official danmaku conventions.

[@Sakf504]

@@Bloodreign1 Actually, Snow Bros 2 was Toaplan's last game, releasing the game under the name of Hanafram before they went on bankrupt.

[@RedRanger2001]

There are differences between the following region versions of the arcade game -- Hong Kong - much difficult, no intermissions. Good for experts. Korea - same as the Japanese release, but the first boss is easier, and the text is in Korean. USA - easier, bombs restored after each stage, English text. Good for beginners.

[@Retro_Royal]

MY favourite show on the net back again. Thank you very much :)

[@RetroCore]

👍😁

[@coderkind]

The Saturn controller is a massive tick in the box for Sega’s console. I think the answer of the best “port” will be when the CAVE FPGA core is released on the MiSTer.

[@bombjack1984]

Love the new grumpy old man intro message - now with added grump!

[@retro_daz]

I really do love a great shooter and Cave make some of the best! Yet another great video Mark, seeing these is the highlight of my Saturday!!

[@Alianger]

Either port is a big improvement for the music; it's in mono and pretty distorted in the original.

[@RetroCore]

Agreed. It also fluctuates in volume too on the original hardware.

[@NotEnoughSound]

DonPachi is like the Doom of shmups thank you again

[@RetroCore]

It sure is. It's the game that change the style of the shooter.

[@adammiceli4366]

When you look at all 3 comparison.. seem like the saturn has more details or higher resolution than even the arcade.

[@Mamiya645]

Not sure about the hardware CAVE used but Seibu Kaihatsu's basically been running all their wonderful 2D shmups on 386 processor power. Assembler code and some custom circuits helped make it easier but it is true that optimization did a lot for consoles then, and lack of optimization did a lot more. See Doom on the Saturn for a laugh.

[@ravagingwolverine]

Cave started with the typical 68000/Z80 setup, then moved to boards with Hitachi SH-3 CPUs, then to PC hardware. That's interesting seeing Seibu Kaihatsu was using 386 CPUs so late, but they did the job just fine and the specific sprite hardware mattered a lot.

[@TheDannylarson]

I always love hearing the digitized voice during boss battles "Couple More Shots" Although when you hear that is way more than a couple 🤣 Great video man 🤘

[@jkemp6791]

“Don’t you just LOOOOOVE the sweet taste of victory?!?!”

[@MrWolverineDK]

I have no opinion about which port is the best, but I must say thanks to you . Back in the day, then I got my love for 2D shooteemup games back. So thank you :-) Great episode.

[@RetroCore]

Nice 👍 glad to hear that. I'm not as good as I once was, too old now so the reflexes have slowed down.

[@WrightOffsGaming]

Excellent vid Mark, I love Cave shooters and this games ace, I've only played the arcade and PlayStation version so I couldn't say which is best tbh, I do think it's a good example of arcade ports and the sat/psx generation getting close to that arcade perfect conversion we all wanted.

[@RetroCore]

Yeah, this was a time when we trully started to see Arcade quality in the home.

[@amerigocosta7452]

Saturn = more slowdowns, less accurate graphics, better sound effects and a standard pad more tailored to this type of games. PS1 = less slowdowns, more accurate graphics, worse sound effects and, most importantly a standard dpad that is really crappy for shoot'em ups. I think it all boils down to which features are more relavent to the specific player. As far as I'm concerned, I think the PS1 version is a slightly better effort overall and I suppose it's worth playing especially with a better controller like an arcade stick. But at the same time, given that neither port is 100% accurate, I think that a proper emulation setup, if one knows what to do with settings to keep latency at a minimum, is really the way to go for the many of us that aren't into superguns and arcade boards.

[@Alianger]

I emulated the arcade game and used a saturn pad myself. There's quite a bit of slowdown in the original too.

[@jkemp6791]

Shmups on both Saturn and PS1 shouldn’t be played with the standard pad, tbh. TATE mode on a CRT tipped on its side and arcade sticks are how these games should be played.

[@SuperHighTechGamer]

Just got this for the Saturn. Thanks for explaining the screen settings! My whole opinion of this port changed dramatically after playing with the settings (got time now if you know what I mean:) This game begs to be played in TATE mode, the only way to enjoy it fully. Another great BOTP.

[@RetroCore]

I'm happy to hear the setting option improved the game for you. Without changing those screen setting on the Saturn game, it looks awful.

[@edwardboyz1000]

25th Years Anniversary Game Shooter Bullet Hell or Maniac Shooter of Donpachi Series Since 1995

[@ThoughtformsOfTheSubconsciousM]

Unlike most all other 2D games on both systems, the Saturn version doesn't humiliate the PS1 game. They both have their issues, but for me the lack of oomph the PS1 sound FX have really kills the excitement of the game - I have to put the Saturn version ahead overall.

[@micronian]

I have the Saturn version and back in the days, this game and Dodonpachi were the ones that made me flip my CRT TV on it's side so I could play in TATE mode. Later when I upgraded to a flat plasma screen, these games convinced me to buy a rotating wall mount for it. It looks glorious when playing it on the plasma in a vertical position and stretching it to fill the whole screen using an RGB Scart to HDMI converter. It's how I play all my Saturn games that have TATE mode.

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

I have the same setup, just with RGB, no upscaler needed, 60" Pioneer plasma that can rotate to TATE. Playing this kind of game is more fun with a joystick. I'd recommend one of those Namco sticks with yellow ball and buttons. It does not have auto fire though.

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

I now recommend a Hori RAP with LS-56 with a 3d printed smaller gate and a spacer under the microswitched for tighter throw overal

[@YuukoEnjoyer]

I'm surprised this great game didnt get more ports. At least it got some unlike the criminally underrated DoDonPachi II

[@RetroCore]

DoDonPachi II wasn't developed by Cave from what I remember. Wasn't it by some Chinese or Korean developer?

[@YuukoEnjoyer]

@@RetroCore it wasnt, but I believe it is an official DoDonPachi game still considering it was published by Capcom. I have heard CAVE was more focused on making new IPs at the time so I guess IGS was able to get a license for DonPachi

[@Dookie69uk]

Cave are the masters of bullet hell shooters. Dodonpachi the sequel is considered by many the best bullet hell Shmup ever made. The new M2 port for the PS4 is incredible. They even got SPS the score record holder to make sure it's perfect.

[@pclinuxos_br]

Awesome music. I could only get the PS1 port. But love it.

[@RetroCore]

I think you'll really like the music in DoDonPachi. That really rocks. Some excelent guitar riffs in that and that's coming from a guy who prefers electronic music.

[@pclinuxos_br]

@@RetroCore Ha! Kraftwerk here. But I like the orchestrations in Donpachi. Find them epic and imponent.

[@visionop8]

I can NOT believe how expensive this game is now. My girlfriend got this game for me on Sega Saturn 1.5 years ago complete with spine card for $39.99. That's not a joke. There was nothing slick about that as that was the going rate at the end of 2018. I won't even say how much it is now but look it up. I really like this game and this video is amazing and I thank you for it! However there seriously needs to be a discussion of how just about every old video game now costs SO much money. I really dont think the "rarity" excuse holds up anymore. These are simply old video games. I think this game is a must have for "Shmup" fans, but that price is way out of order.

[@RetroCore]

40 dollars even 1.5 years ago was very cheap. Nice score.

[@TboneTenEighties]

Picked it up today for $55 w/ $5 bucks shipping minty condition from a US seller. Not too bad.

[@shaggymcdaniel3216]

I love this game. It’s not the same without a CRT and an arcade stick. And in my opinion it’s better on the Saturn.

[@RetroCore]

Especially with the stock controls.

[@reagandow850]

Nice! Here we go with another episode on my favorite subject....shooters!! Awesome game!!

[@johnebbs3819]

Hope yourself and family are well Mark.

[@RetroCore]

We're fine. Life is normal here. Actually, made another life in Japan video outside today. I'll upload it tomorrow.

[@RetroCore]

Hope things aren't too bad where you are.

[@johnebbs3819]

@@RetroCore we are in Ireland. Lockdown to the end of the month. Schools and pubs etc closed for longer. About 10 to 20 deaths per day. So far the seem to have a handle on it. For now

[@joeyjojojunior4886]

Need to revisit this one.

[@Colin_Ames]

A good choice for BOTP. I haven’t played this game on either console, so can’t comment from experience. Based on this video, I would probably give the Saturn the edge.

[@RetroCore]

I'll be doing the much better follow up next week, DoDonPachi.

[@AmyraCarter]

(before video) I've played this once, maybe twice but only ever in the arcade. It sat right next to a Rave Racer machine that got my attention far more (and more of my coins too lolz). 1:56 I can definitely see how this inspired developers of shooters; this has some familiarity with the likes of Raptor: Call of the Shadows, Demonstar, and Nebula Fighter... 8:14 Eh. Preference. About all I can say. Imagine a Nintendo 64 port of this. There would be no CD audio, and worse speech quality (if it had any). I of course, speak of how ports for consoles were back then; if someone were to make a port of this game now for any console or PC/Mac/Linux there's no doubt that it would be better than arcade.

[@Charlie-Cat.]

Got both ports of it Mark. love them for sure. 8^) Anthony..

[@chinchilla2302]

Would love to see you do a top 10 shmups video!

[@RetroCore]

Ah, I'm sure they'd be may people complaining about my choice and telling me why I'm wrong. Can't be bothered dealing with idiots like that.

[@jayminer]

It was a long time since I compared the games but if I recall things correctly the Playstation version looked much better and less shimmery when not running in tate-mode - and since most of us didn't have our TV:s flipped 90 degrees that was a huge advantage for the playstation. I used to play the playstation version even though I had access to both about 15 years or so ago when I was really into bullet-hell shooters.

[@RetroCore]

The Saturn could look less shimmery too but you had to Dail in the the screen size yourself. The presets weren't that great.

[@amerigocosta7452]

I'm a big fan of everything Cave. I'm not super good at their games but the flow is just so satisfying. Their output shows how you can do a fantastic sci-fi military themed game without necessarly resorting to a muddy brown/grey/green looking mess. This game was before they went for an "anime" style type of artwork. Yet everyone who grew up with Japanese mecha and sci fi animation in the 70's or 80's, or series like Evangelion which is contemporary to this game, can relate to the thematic and style of Donpachi and its sequel Dodonpachi.

[@RetroCore]

I don't like the practically softcore porn anime stuff they use now. It puts me right off the games.

[@amerigocosta7452]

​@@RetroCore Right. That's annoying, unnecessary and in a few cases disturbing.

[@johns6265]

Does the process of capturing footage for the Saturn change colour saturation and balance? I've noticed in quite a few BOTPs that the Saturn version doesn't match the original colour palletes and can look quite harsh even. Here, the PS1 and arcade version match like for like whilst the Saturn version looks really contrasty with colours really coming forward so it's not just the bullets that stand out. It's like kids have been playing with the image calibration on a TV and it's just been left like that.

[@RetroCore]

The Saturn footage comes from real hardware via RGB through a Framemeister. That could be the reason the colours are change. They look fine on the TV. The PlayStation footage came from playing the game on my PS2 which outputs the image via D-Terminal (component). The Arcade footage is obviously emulation via hdmi to my capture card.

[@saxabar]

@@RetroCore Usually component is less saturated than VGA or RGB, playing DDP on my PS1 RGB+PVM colors are a lot better IMHO

[@inklingex4433]

Pretty good video. I haven't played bullet-hell shooters since Konami's A-JAX. Speaking of bullet-hell, I bought Vasara Collection on my Switch (along with the original 1981 Donkey Kong arcade game) and I enjoyed it. Although it sucks that after using a continue during the final stage (Vasara 1)/stage 6 (Vasara 2), I have to do some crazy stuff all over again right from the beginning. Like I already get what you mean. Also, about the Saturn/PS1 ports of Donpachi, I say the Saturn port is better because of a little more contents.

[@ChibiTheEdgehog]

Colors pop a whole lot more on saturn and some of the firing modes seem a tad muted on PlayStation . other than that you have to look real hard to spot the difference

[@RetroCore]

Indeed. They both appear to be close to the arcade yet neither is perfect.

[@radiantansel202]

Ah, I love this game, is hard but not AS HARD as some of the most gimmicky ones started to get in recent years (I'm a pure masochist who still plays through them). And as damn always, in-house Cave NEVER doing a proper port to the games, they ALWAYS seem to have any sort of problem, small or huge, they are never on par with some other ports around the consoles. Which one do I prefer? If I need to get real hardware, PCB is going to be crazy expensive (And I rather use it for my future Arcade Station), then I think I will go to the Saturn port, probably because 2D stuff is usually handled there better and slowdown is not a real problem most of the time. The PS1 port, while playable, I think it has a bit more severe problems, audio doesn't get distorted, but I use Hi-End equipment for audio, muffled audio is always a nightmare to me. Also, both share the same problem, play them on Tate, or don't even bother, the scaling on both is absolutely disgusting (Just like any other tate game lol). Great video!

[@RetroCore]

DoDonPachi coming next Saturday 👍

[@Bloodreign1]

Explosions on the Saturn version tends to be a bit more pixelated for some reason, the PS1 version the explosions don't have that issue.

[@dangwoot]

One of the few bullet hell shooters i enjoy cheers mark!

[@RetroCore]

I guess because it was the first it is still kind of tame.

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

Donpachi for the Saturn I remember having alot of slowdown in strange places, but perhaps I am thinking of Strikers 1945 Saturn version of DoDonPachi -Really pixelated explosions, and laser weapon. So something which is in the way constant;ly PS version of DoDonPachi -only possible to select fighters in the option menu So I prefer the playstation version. Curious to learn what other differences there are which I forgot.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

Would you mind testing this game on the Satiator? After completing stage 5, instead of entering the second loop of the game I got booted to the saturn bios screen. Thank you

[@RetroCore]

I don't really have time to play through the entire game to be honest. That is a strange bug though.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

@@RetroCore I get that, but it ony takes 35 minutes to get that point. It's weird for sure, please try and see for yourself.

[@zero3san590]

I couldn’t see the shimmering lines in the Saturn version. Where should I be looking?

[@RetroCore]

On the grass you can see lines as the screen scrolls left to right. Once I switch to RGB image size the lines are removed.

[@zero3san590]

@@RetroCore Thanks! On a small screen the grass and forest looked like they're wobbling, but on a larger screen the lines are noticeable.

[@thrillington2008]

A great start for Cave. Unfortunately my country is under lockdown for two weeks.

[@RetroCore]

Bummer. Is that voluntary lock down or government enforced?

[@thrillington2008]

@@RetroCore borders are closed for non essential travel, there's curfews in select cities, some cities are under martial law being patrolled by the National Guard but thankfully there's not that many cases of th he illness near me and I got furloughed from my job at the local theme park.

[@vintagebluenote8564]

to me saturn looks clear. others blurry

[@frankschneider6156]

Oh yes, great selection for a BotP. I'm not the biggest Bullet Hell fan when it comes to shooters and this one is already slightly too difficult for my taste, but it's still a great shooter. Do we get DoDonPachi next week ? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaassssseeeee ... I promise to even clean up my mailbox.

[@svenzok]

Does the saturn have the tate mode ?

[@MahmoudEhab2023]

hey can you make a battle of the ports for street fighter 3 3rd strike?

[@RetroCore]

Someday in the future. It's on the to do list.

[@JorgeAraujo97]

I always find interesting how easily you can survive in those bullet hell shooters.

[@RetroCore]

Ah, it's mainly because the actual hit box of the ship you control is rather small.

[@Bloodreign1]

1 pixel wide hitbox, very generous, but very needed for a danmaki game.

[@sakesaurus]

not in donpachi you can't :^)

[@topofbones]

A rare case of technicaly better 2D game in PS1 rarher than Saturn. But I'm sure Saturn version controls better, the Dpad is amazing.

[@Bloodreign1]

They seem to control the same, pretty much neither port has control issues.

[@RetroCore]

It does. PlayStation D-pad since day one right through to now is not very nice. I use Hori pads on all my Sony consoles when I need to use a D-pad.

[@fnjesusfreak]

A 68000, and a Z80 driving the sound hardware. Shoulda figured.

[@whatamalike]

Amiga version was best, but required an 060, 8gb hd space, a CD drive, a cd32 controller, workbench 3.1 and even then it didn't have any in-game music :3

[@NP-ip3nj]

Is Donpachi expensive in Japan?

[@RetroCore]

Hmm, not too bad. About 4000 to 5000 yen. DoDonPachi is more but that's also better.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Just something weird going on with my search page.

[@Angellmbrr]

Slowdown is an unintentional feature in shooters, otherwise, your reflexes wouldn't match the speed of the enemy's bullets. I see new games implementing this on purpose.

[@martinevans1206]

The Saturn version seems to be brighter and more colourful.

[@RetroCore]

It does seem that way in the comparison section. Seems to show more detail too. That could be just down to the RGB that the Saturn uses though.

[@spooky_electric]

The PlayStation version is more arcade perfect, but the Saturn version is better than arcade perfect. Judging from this video, the Saturn version seems to be running at a higher resolution than both the PS and Arcade versions, which allows for more clarity and detail in the sprites and backgrounds. Also, the colors are much more vibrant.

[@ElricSowrd]

Never heard of this game before. Looks like the Saturn Version has a wider Aspect Ratio.

[@RetroCore]

It does but that's because I changed it to RGB mode. If I leave it in TV mode it's the same as the PlayStation but then has shimmering when the screen scrolls left or right.

[@ElricSowrd]

@@RetroCore Oh.

[@Christdeliverme]

Ridiculously over powered weapon.

[@RetroCore]

For sure but DoDonPachi goes even more crazy. I'd say the most overpowered weapon on a shooter would have to be the fully stocked blaster on Batsugun. That just fills the screen.

[@tylerd4884]

it looks like the ground textures are much better on saturn than playstation or arcade

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

I noticed that too,

[@J0r]

Looks like you have biliner filtering turned on in MAME. You should turn that off. Other versions look more crisp.

[@RetroCore]

Yes, I switched it on because with itboff there game displayed some horrid shimmering. Do you know how to avoid the shimmering?

[@saxabar]

@@RetroCore GroovyMame + 15Khz output?

[@JoystickVersusMachine]

I'm sorta biased in that I've only ever played this on the Saturn. It's a shame about the shimmering in that one graphics mode. I've noticed a few of those Chinese emulation consoles doing that. I assume it's a scaling issue. Regardless ,they're all pretty dang close.

[@RetroCore]

Yes, it's exactly that. The aspect ratio is off which causes the shimmering effect.

[@esathegreat]

No Game Boy port?

[@jesuszamora6949]

Surprised at no Dreamcast port, really. As to which is better, I'd say it's a wash...

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

In those days a game didn't need a port to every system like now. So no surprise. But it would've been great!

[@jesuszamora6949]

@@dbnpoldermans4120 Well, I say that because shooters like that became a big deal on the Dreamcast. Lord knows it would have sung on the platform...

[@captaincommando2602]

Play this genre on the PS1 really hurt your thumb. The PS1 is my favorite system of all time, but I prefer to play arcade games with an arcade stick. Play on the Saturn on the other hand is way less hurtful.

[@RetroCore]

Yep. I can't disagree there. All Sony consoles have crappy D-pads. I use joysticks or Hori pads on my Sony consoles.

[@CowVersion9.03]

you forgot to mention the shitty YOKO mode on the PS1 version. It does that horrible Image Fight FM Towns scrolling up n down.

[@RetroCore]

A lot of vertical shooters did that bsck then. Gunbird on the Saturn does that as does Batsugun. At least those games let you switch off that mode.

[@alritedave]

Never been a fan of bullet hell shooters tbh.

[@RetroCore]

This was the first so it's not too bad. The last two stages are rather crazy though with the amount of ships that come after you.

[@ravagingwolverine]

They're definitely not for everyone. I tried some of them, and I can see why some people like them, but I didn't enjoy them as much as more traditional shooters either.

[@iwanttocomplain]

Cave came from a bankrupt Toaplan and decided they could save shooting games by making them more of a spectacle. But I played a DoDonPachi style game on my phone and it sucks. The screen is full of stuff the whole time but the actual gameplay is weak. There is actually very little to do apart from weave around endless streams of bullets and you win MEGA ULTRA HYPER UBER POWER UP GUN X 6 PSHHHEEEWWWWWWCRASHSHSHHHHH. Then the phone gets really hot. But all you are really doing is moving left and right a bit and trying to get close to bullets for graze bonus'. Also filling the screen with things to collect is also annoying but Lords of Thunder and Gunbird do that too.

[@RetroCore]

It sucked because you are playing on a phone.

[@iwanttocomplain]

@@RetroCore One genre that actually works ok on phones are shmups and it was you who gave me the idea! I was looking for something like Raiden Trad, a traditional shooter but ended up paying £6-7 for the most modern one going (from a search for DoDonPachi - just out of interest). The graphics are ridiculous though and it does set the phone on fire - it gets so hot. It does play ok but for some reason it didn't make me go back and play it as in the end it's just dodging streams of bullets. No aiming and shooting is really involved at all. The game in question is Danmaku Unlimited by Doragon Entertainment.

[@131457c]

Donpachi is a great game, but in my opinion it is poorly optimized for the saturn and even the playstation. Cave should have done a better job, specially with the sega saturn. But still, there are a lot worse shooters out there.

[@RetroCore]

This was their first try so we'll let them off. Next week it's DoDonPachi.

[@131457c]

@@RetroCore I agree. I'm looking forward for Dondonpachi! I only know the saturn version of it.

[@kazuya8171]

Playstation version is better than Saturn version. No possible discussion. Offers much less slowdown and differents options including same Arcade resolution.

[@Vintersorg88]

I love your show, but, man, you're such a die-hard Sega fanboy. Everytime there is some argument about a Sega version of any game being not so great or below some other one, I think you take it personally, like someone just disrespected your mother or something like that. Just... Take it easy. You're making a show about videogames across many systems, and even though we all have our preferences, just show the games, the facts and leave at that. No need to argue, since all of this is so subjective. Nonetheless, I do like your show and commend you for your efforts to bring us a good comparison.

[@RetroCore]

I didn't say anything that wasn't true in this video. I didn't even say which version of the game I preferred. Just pointed out what faults each port had.