Battleship Central Positioning Example #1 - Jean Bart

Anyone who has ever watched me play BBs on stream knows that there is one mantra I always repeat. Central positioning. It gives you firing vectors on the entire map and provides tremendous pressure on anyone trying to move towards the flanks, where most ships tend to go. This is the first vid in a series on centrally positioned Battleships.
Stream: / flamuu
Insta: / flamugram
Twitter: / flamuchz
Discord: / discord

[@Flamuu]

Whenever I post BB videos I always get people exclaiming about how "they never get these kinds of broadsides" and how it has to be rigged or some random explanation why I manage to get them. The reason for this is simple, positioning. The hardest skill to master, but the most valuable to learn. It's always easy to call out good/bad positions in hindsight, but it requires real game understanding to notice them before they happen. Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/ Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu

[@chanlamkha5766]

Could you do GK next? How to play effective if you are 2nd ship?

[@kevinreed-jones3179]

Watching Flamu's guides should be made mandatory by WG for any player, both new as old ones. Thanks Flamu!

[@stewenw4120]

I hope you choose following BBs by playstyle (nevermind you kind of said it at the very end:). And will you do the same for cruiser types?

[@bakaweiner6956]

@@kevinreed-jones3179 Why would they promote one of their Russian bias critics?

[@stevemadak6255]

It comes down to IQ. Flamu predicts where his team mates and the enemies are going to be in a couple minutes. Very hard to do.

[@UC3phik0tfQKSL4yHloUor3g]

I also love central positioning in my BBs, especially in the Two Brothers map.

[@xmlthegreat]

You... I like you!

[@iqmalaidil3414]

Get off the comments section, Flambass.

[@dzello]

Same, I win everytime I push my friedrich through mid.

[@leeresocke2532]

Special tactics ftw!

[@nambr9]

Giant vagina of death

[@EK4Ash]

"with 3700 health left there is no way hes going to survive" in reality its "with 3700 health left he's got 1 overpen and 1 ricochet"

[@azerhero]

flamu : the most effective way to learn map awareness is playing BB majority of the BB main playerbase : err.. what?

[@whpromo]

::facepalm::

[@gundam36457]

lol I laugh because it's true. It feels like, at least on NA, most BB players don't even know that the minimap exists. It's like, for them, they don't have a rudder or minimap until it's too late for them to learn how to use them.

[@Warmaker01]

Most BB players have no idea what they're doing. Position, consumables management, playing the objectives, attacking targets that matter the most (DDs no.1, Radar Cruisers no.2 in priority), etc... They do it all wrong. Don't get me wrong, there are some that are really good at their BBs but the average BB player I have little respect for.

[@starpirat]

and yet they still dont learn this surprisingly effective skill. They only go and work the cap after they fail to support their DD's allowing them to be overcome and killed forcing them to do it because, 1. they are to far away and or dont use the minimap to see. 2. because they are so far away their dispersion is bad to the target they are trying to hit to support. 3. Cant get the angle on the radar cruisers. 4. Sit in the one spot so their game play is limited thinking the enemy will come to them, bzzzzzzzz, game over.

[@TheGreatBoomy25]

The thing in a battleship is that you also need to know where the enemy Destroyers are. You need to know where possible torpedoes can come in from. Using islands to your advantage and preventing ships from moving freely to turn in a given area is important. Although your own Destroyers are very important, you must position yourself to not be farmed but instead seek out broadsides. The Jean Bart with it's reload booster is unrivaled at it's tier and can remain nose in to all it's engagements without much issue. Very glad I spent a little steel to get it before it left the Armory.

[@nelsoncheng2674]

Only rivaled by the Musashi

[@user-xn4ru6ex2v]

I one hundred percent absolutely agree, central positioning on two brothers is the most effective tactic you will ever witness

[@luodaji]

just watch flambass video for the guide

[@oldRighty1]

Next week's games: All BBs in center of the map

[@jl2225]

Can you make a similar guide for German BBs and when to push and when to hang back and tolerate the crappy accuracy?

[@shoaibgazi8510]

push always in late game. early game hang back use your range advantage. map awareness is a big difference.

[@muumis]

@@shoaibgazi8510 what range advantage? German bbs are american heavycruisers with extra secondaries

[@shoaibgazi8510]

@@muumis main battery. yeah it's not that big as standard bbs have but you can increase it by range module on slot 6

[@muumis]

@@shoaibgazi8510 absolutely useless on german bbs you gotta go full in secondary build or you might aswell not use two of your turrets

[@shoaibgazi8510]

@@muumis yeah kinda. cause of german dispersion.

[@limarismenos]

YES YES YES! More videos like this please Flamu. These videos are the best because - dare I say it - they make people actually think for a change in this game.

[@DanielB-ii4up]

Still not wondering why the JB is by Winrate my best ship in the game. It's sexy, it's fast, it has potent guns, short reload, speed boost for trolling enemies in multiple ways. I feel so confident in the JB, I really have faith in it and it feels like good to start a battle with it. Its one of the most flexible ships in the game. Sorry for my long love letter to the JB.

[@IaSaVedem]

I got also radiolocation on jb 😁, as jb is so good at killing dds with he.

[@jwstrock22]

Just wanted to compliment you on these central positioning videos. I played my bbs today with this specific advice in mind, and it was quite effective. One game in particular it created some early opportunities which swung the battle in our favor. I am going to play like this more often.

[@fabse2783]

Please make more such videos. I love how you explain stuff and help people get better in the game.

[@Ima9ineBreak3r]

I am a very big fan of aggressive, but intelligent positioning and battleships. Despite the fact that they are surprisingly different ships, Jean Bart and Georgia are my two go-to bbs. I’m glad to see someone speaking sense when it comes to how to play; I can’t help but get a bit frustrated when the bbs on my team go straight to the edges...

[@PiersonWillis]

I love video's like this! Thanks Flamu - it seems I've been potatoing in my BBs for too long.

[@crimsonscarlet5482]

7:06 "pop reload booster hoping to secure this kill (Chapayev)" proceeds to shoot the Ibuki, lol Aside from that, good commentary. This central position you talk about is good on most randoms battles but isn't always the case. It depends on ships lineup (MM), type of map and having the range and decent guns to stay there an deal any relevant dmg (pen and accuracy). On Greece (noted the convinient height and position of the central islands), Okinawa or Neighbors it will work, granted there isn't a cv (and if there is, you should be scorted by another ship with decent AA, otherwise you will be farmed) or others threads that make that position unsustainable in the medium to long term (unspotted dds having free run on you or HE spammers). I think that's why you made an argument around 5:00, which is very on point. In the other hand, in maps like Shatter, Two brothers, Sea of Fortune and specially Riposte in Ranked battles, this would most likely put you out of the batte or without any relevant line of fire. The latter one is a very good example of how you can get in a central position as bb (focus AB or BC type of mentality) while your team melts like icecream in the flanks and you can't help them because the enemy either are behind island or are well angled against you. There could potentially be variation of this type of situation where it works, but i just wanted to point out this. Always good this type of videos, specially from someone who has a wide audience.

[@BeyondHP1]

Thanks for the video Flamu. You'll be at 100k soon!

[@krisgrafili6780]

Good afternoon sir, great informative video as always. 💪

[@VasilisFouk]

I'm a DD main. I 'reverse engineered' Flamu's advice about positioning from last years positioning video (I think it was last year), started playing BBs just to see how I can send my torps better in order to hit them even when they are maneuvering or simply to deny them a position they want to be in. :D

[@bamukero4978]

Very helpful video flamu. Thanks for the video!

[@abyssalreclass]

Interesting video, and I will definitely try this out in my BBs. I do have a question though, what do you recommend for maps with a big open area in the middle with little cover where going there is just asking to be focused down?

[@RasmusDyhrFrederiksen]

Very enjoyable and insightfull commentary. Good job.

[@fawwazmori8111]

BBs: Central Positioning CVs:

[@IBERIA18]

i love how you guys on youtube get all that damage from your shells .when in game the shells would be lucky to get half the amount.

[@janipt]

Yep. Play 100 games and pick one with good RNG

[@soffici1]

@@janipt What is good RNG? Never had it

[@serve_xt4298]

Great vid, love it. I hope people get the idea of map awareness and map control more than the usual "capture zone for the points". Although i admit it's kinda hard to analize the map and predict the game, I think experience and patience improves this aspect. Looking forward for the yamato example!

[@TrangleC]

This seems very useful advise. I say "seems" because I didn't have a chance to test it yet and when I do, I'll probably find a way to fuck it up, but it makes sense. I'm still a noob. Played only around 300 battles and my highest tier ship is a stock Nagato. I'm really having a hard time figuring out what to do and when and where to do it. I know the basics, how to run your ship, what ammo to use when, when to expect torpedoes, angling, not mouse-zooming, not wasting a repair on every first fire and I have developed a decent feeling for how to shoot. It is rare that I miss a salvo, even at long ranges against turning targets. But what eludes me is situational awareness, how to read the battle, how to understand what is happening on the map, knowing where to go and how to react to developments around me, or at the other end of the map, for that matter. I don't know why this seems so hard to me in WoWS and why the game feels so random and unpredictable to me. I did not have such issues when I played WoT. There it didn't take me long to develop a good understanding of the tactics, strategy, map awareness and all that. Usually I knew how a battle would play out just by seeing where my team was going in the first 30 seconds of the battle and where the first enemy tanks were spotted. Well... granted, I don't think I had developed that feeling after the first 300 battles, but it still definitely feels harder and more complicated in WoWS. I also find it harder to learn from advise and tutorial videos like this one, for some reason. It seems, whenever I try to emulate and apply what I have seen and learned, something unexpected happens and it all goes wrong. But this video gives me a more positive feeling. I will definitely try doing this.... central positioning, with the stern towards the enemy, so I can run away if I get focused.

[@TrangleC]

Now I had a chance to try it and as always when I try to do something I learned in a video, I ate shit every time, hehehe. I guess the ships I used are just incapable of doing it. I tried it in the Nagato and in the Ashitaka and it didn't work at all, because those things are so ridiculously fragile. Literally everything that shot at me did huge amounts of damage. I got citadelled through the stern with regularity, every HE salvo almost hit as hard as a citadel hit and even lower tier cruiser AP shots just shredded me up. There seems to be no point in angling those ships. All you can do, apparently is hang around at the back and take bad, inaccurate pot shots at stuff and watch your team win or lose without you. I watched reviews of the Nagato and they said she is a great ship with pretty good armor. Granted, mine is still stock and I haven't got the hull upgrade yet, but I sure hope that upgrade makes a huge difference because currently, survivability-wise she feels like a super slow and clumsy tier 5 cruiser with tier 7 guns.

[@tegli4]

Ever since Flamu started talking about central positioning I tried to force myself to do it when I play a BB. Currently I am regrinding KM BBs and I am at FDG. On my first run, I had like ~40% winrate. Now I have improved my stats with FDG to above 51% winrate and my average damage has went up by 20k. Of course it is also more challenging to play, but it also feels much more rewarding.

[@padanfain7466]

Love watching flamu talk about battleships and playing in exactly the same way I do. 'GET THE DD NOAW BB'S!"!'

[@Bohdisattva326]

This is a phenomenal video

[@eric.a3]

And don’t lie only on Flamu guys, trying to understand by yourself is very important to. Make your game and you’ll always win and progress

[@FaceofDanger]

This might be the most important WoWS video ever made.

[@limmn3658]

I start to learn map awareness by playing T5/6 DD.. and it is improve my BB game play.

[@blasceras]

Thanks for the lesson , sir !! Much appreciated !

[@JessWLStuart]

I love the idea of these videos! Please make more instructional videos like this! :)

[@FancyaBevMate]

well done for posting we need you ichase etc to do more and more regarding this as we'll all benefit from players knowing what to do. Cheers

[@CeltSfodster]

Exactly the type of video WG should be promoting rather than the infomercial dribble I keep seeing on their channel. They should engage more with you CC's to get this sort of info shown on the game launcher.

[@pauldrive7243]

Great Video I can use this with my Richelieau and I cant wait for the Yamato guide as I just got her!.

[@molbar1057]

hello fellow yamato user

[@calinvaida301]

Well, amazing video and very nice explanations. I understood what I did wrong when I tried to do the same. The central positioning I knew about, however, I was going nose in...of course sometimes you can escape with it but most of the time, there is no chance. So thank you. One thing that I would like to ask: In a Yamato or even better, a Grosser Kurfurst (sec build which has no fire proof) how do you stay central against a Smolensk? Because, especially in a GK this is painful. Also, do you recommend the legendary module on the GK? Many thanks and keep it up. Looking forward for the Yamato video.

[@lukasvtipil9951]

Hi Flamu, could you do a tutorial on on exuipment, flags and signals? Also equipment can be hard to understand, for example smoke mechanics. It is kinda overwhelming for a new player.

[@bersekovitch]

I'm a simple frenchman, i see a Jean Bart, i click like.

[@Sashoisaev]

And that is why Cruisers MUST NOT HAVE SMOKE!

[@Warmaker01]

Pushing in a Schors. That's a paddlin'.

[@tommeakin1732]

Minor nerd thing: Irl, flat turret faces are not just worse. They are worse for close range, but at most ranges that people expected to fight at, they are better. If your turret face is sloped back, at mid to long ranges, you're giving the enemy shell a flatter surface to hit because of the steep angle the shell is coming in at. In world of warships, scale is really weird. Like realistically you'd need a shell to travel in excess of 1000mps for it to travel 10km in 10 seconds, but in wows lots of shells can to that with lower speed. This means plunging fire basically isn't not a thing in the game, so all engagements are technically close range (at most mid range) by irl battleship standards

[@eaandersson5522]

Didn't Jean Bart got removed from the shop?

[@fockewulf9518]

bru i always get hit by some random ass dual purpose torps whenever i play central position in bb.

[@Omegawerewolfx]

In the JB and Lenin, the first thing I look for are radar cruisers, and then any target of opportunity. They're so good at evaporating ships. In other BBs I just look for the best target.

[@deadpixy1425]

They need to have a BB only game mode. Would be hella fun.

[@quangduongang6230]

Other than that, how did you manage to get such consistent volleys? Most of the time my guns can't even hit someone at 5km away, and take that DevsStrike on the Schors for example, my New Mexico would hit like once and it would have been overpen.

[@aarnoh5687]

New Mexico is lower tier with bad dispersion. Try some higher tier battleships

[@historyoverbeer5501]

Great vid! When i was a noob in warships i played DDs and was quite terrible in cruisers or BBs. Your videos helped me great deal to make my BBs work. cheers "Central Position" as Flamu's dig to Napoleon? :)

[@halonut96]

Just wanna chime in and say that even if you think "oh yeah i know all of this so ill be fine" its always good to keep up with the fundamentals, i would consider myself above average in terms of skill but in no way am I anywhere near unicum level, i sit at a 55% w/r mostly because i keep practicing the fundamentals like the ines in this video and ones like knowing when pushing is going to get you killed. At the end of the day the more people that are good players, the more fun we all have

[@alphaxedtw9357]

I'll use that tips a lot! Please show how to work on that shorter ranged fighter battleships like Massachusetts or something like that after Yamato!

[@Koko-sn9in]

I always flank in my JB, trying to get the BBS from the side but on the flank

[@russell7852]

Dude thank you for reminding people to support their team.. More ships youtubers need to advise their fan base because so many team mates are brain dead

[@Arphalia]

Fantastic video, would it be possible for you to do a video like this in German BB' by chance or is this more universal tactics and so on? How applicable is this at low tiers like 6-7? I'm struggling at the moment at low tier games, especially when CV' are in play sadly.

[@cyanide7389]

I think my biggest issue is that I cant plan ahead and adapt to certain situations. Heres an example, I'm in my yamato, going to c flank. I decide to hide behind an island and take shots at anyone that pushes. But when someone shoots me over the island, I start screwing up and end up dying.

[@vaughnblaylock6069]

The best area denial and control ship in the game is the Smolensk in my opinion. No other ship causes other ships to run in fear faster than the Smolensk.

[@themastrofall]

Last night I was playing lots of JB and getting infuriated by our team's positioning, however watching this video I realize I can probably work on my own positioning as well as I tend to glide to flanks

[@mikewu3441]

want to see similar guides for different cruises in different maps and game modes!!!

[@jayvee8502]

I always tried to do this Central position in a BB but there is always someone who ruins your game like a dd going central and a CV who will annoy your central position.

[@aryakaushik3633]

How would i take a central position in a Russian BB with barely 20km range. Im on sovesky soyuz and stuggle to hit anything cuz i dont have range when I do this

[@shahinjogi5228]

Amazing commentary! Another example of how much you are trying to make this community smarter.... Not sure it will help though ;) gg

[@Pliskkenn]

How do you avoid getting primaried in the centre? Seems to be whenever I do it the enemy team laugh with glee as they can pound me from both sides.

[@akshajgarg7024]

Would you mind doing a positioning vid with the Conqueror? Been playing her a lot recently, and I want to increase my damage output

[@ChemySh]

...oh, not going nose in makes very good sense. I main US cruisers and often find myself dying before being able to disengage, I'll try to be less paranoid in angling because I have no hope of bouncing off most shells anyway... and thanks for the tips on playing BB to learn map awareness. I've always hated BB for their reload speed but at least now I have a good reason to bear with them.

[@MihaiD259]

My issue with a central position is that you potentially give broadside to every other ship. This is why it is hard to pull off

[@georgevincent7259]

Is it the same for the British BB’s? I’m never sure if I should be sniping or aggro in them

[@fzy1999]

I'm curious though, does this apply to all BBs? The Georgia for example, as you say, high caliber guns, decently tanky because of the heals, but wouldn't taking this sort of position be wasting the speed boost and the heal? As opposed to crushing a flank then swinging around for crossfires?

[@austincooke972]

Can you do a heavy cruiser position? Please

[@baronblansit]

I can not set up crossfires when BBs follow me around. I push and then they push. I flank and then they flank. I stop and they stop. It feels like follow the leader instead of setting up crossfires.

[@magnus_bd6185]

its difficult to play central position when CV is present because the moment you start to worry enemy ships CV gets a hard on for you

[@ShaneMcGrath.]

Love the JB always have decent matches in her even if the team is crap. Just got the Georgia and boy am I really struggling in it. Seems so damn squishy and 6 guns or should I say mainly 4 usable without showing too much blapfest against T10's is a struggle. Any tips? I'm too used to JB, Kind of wish I had of got the cruiser Yoshino before the Georgia now. :(

[@Alienvisitor007]

Its speed is the key

[@Toxik_Tobi]

Good video!

[@peterwillemoes4824]

Can you do a Positioning Example on the Bismarck? I am gonna unlock it within this week and I want to be as well prepared as possible ;) Very great video, you explained everything very well and not to complicated. I am gonna jump into a match with my Gneisenau and try to see how I can do with my new knowledge! :D

[@ollihro82]

tbh on this map I always play that position in the middle with these 3 tiny islands and around them. bb , heavy or light cruiser... all three of them work very well there.

[@Rose.Of.Hizaki]

I think your friendly Donskoi was trying to find the pot of glue at the end of the rainbow somewhere on the next map grid.

[@kobexu]

Flamu, what about secondary BBs like the Massachusetts? Should it be playing central as well?

[@steweygrrr]

How do you play a central position in a USN BB given that their sluggishness makes it harder to adapt to a developing situation? Should you go for a more 'immovable object' style of play and make them come to you? Also I am having trouble with the guns on North Carolina where shots frequently go both short and long on the same salvo. The lead is fine and they land around where I want them to, they just seem to straddle what I am shooting at rather than hitting it.

[@Wolfieny]

I agree with central positioning, however maybe not all bbs? I have way more succes on a flank with my georgia then when I go middle because of the range I think. On the contrary my highest dmg ever (257k) was in a Yamato with a central position on tears of the cruisers. As always thx for the vids Flamu, keep on informing and entertaining! And lets pray for Stalin to finally calm down with the fantasy ships.

[@turkishjade8873]

How does the water look so incredibly wonderful awesome? Do you have a super GPU?

[@Terrr05]

Noob here. My biggest problem is positioning. I just tried this tactic in 2 games. First was on Two Brothers. In the whole game I saw nothing but a DD and BB to my West. My team all steamrolled the East. I missed all of my shots on both ships because RNG gave me shit dispersion despite good tracking. Eventually they charged me. I scraped together a kill on the BB with the help of a random friendly CC 's smoke, before getting skull fucked by the DD's torps. 45k total DMG done. Second game was Fault Line. Again I saw almost nothing until a BB pushed and killed a friendly BB 8km away, which then received a punishing citadel-hit salvo from me before a random DD appeared and obliterated me with one series of torps. Because I was turning to avoid the torps, I couldn't shoot the DD. I had to choose between definitely eating all the torps or maybe only eating 1 or 3. I'm loving this game but goddamn I'm hating DD's - even DD's on my team. Friendly DD's are usually dead or in the middle of nowhere doing nothing useful, while enemy DD's are a nuisance at best and keyboard smashing at worst. I get the feeling because people play this game like it's team death match, they first choose BB then get dunked on by DD and then go DD. And it's my impression that cruiser player are always a complete waste of space. If anyone's up for playing with and training a noob let me know. I'm dying to get better.

[@Grazysworld]

Flamu I agree, and the strat works if you have people bright enough that they see your strat or when in a clan. Same for Carriers like my self I'm give the info to the friendly I give positions, I spot for the team I can even help aly's... only problem is that folks aren't lissening or watching the chat or being in dismissal. So mostly what you say does work in an clan not Random play. People there don't watch the chat or playing with music on and pop down chat audio. So yeah it's very stressfull as an carrier in Random.

[@KingOTanks]

Is there a better explanation about why going fully nose-in is bad? I missed the reasoning in this video

[@ex0dus40]

Nice Idea!!!! pls start with all T10 ships than 9..8..7. :P

[@ShakaNFSW]

15:52 I have tried a lot to get the central potition, I work hard on getting better and I'm doing well... until a CV catches me and farm me to dead, yes I'm moving, yes I'm watching minimap and doing the necessary changes but ultimatly ends like that...

[@maximusretardious4597]

Tips for playing the Jean Bart : Press S key only because pressing the W key will cause the ship to self destruct

[@MarcCelisKuss]

Ask the Brits with the Tirpitz iRL... exactly that concept

[@Halinspark]

Do you have any really good advuce for us DD players? Especially IJN. I feel like every new update is a kick in the face, and I know I can be better.

[@RandoTark]

Thanks a ton for your much different take on BB strategy than ichasegaming. He pretty much is a fan of flanking or a/c only ... and Ive been having limited success w/ that. I switched to "playing mid" like you outline and immediately notice the increase in crossfire damage Im capable of. Now, I just gotta learn when to get out of there (dd's n the like) .. and also when playing mid may not be good based on what the rest of team doing. I had one game where basically the other team pushed both flanks really hard, wiped my team and ganged up on me lol... oh well.

[@g3force782]

How do you train yourself to aim and fire accurately?

[@klcabs2631]

I'm an average player; thank you for the detailed explanation.

[@Leonard7]

21:04, well, happy to have them both, John Doe on my Monty, Charles Honore on my Henry, which somewhat comoensate other nerfes of the ship. Still, i think that after Kuznetzov, Lutjens is a very valuable captain for german bbs if u like brawling, secondary hell

[@fpensel]

Will you do the GK as well?

[@macdy9182]

Flamu, what's your secret? How do you get so many broadsides? Nice game btw

[@user-ig9dr8bm1l]

I think that the most challenging battleships are the slow ones, like Colorado or New York. The most suffering to play aswell.

[@Mavairo]

I always ask a DD to take the central point, and sync up my stealth so that he's detected just a little ahead of me. (I'm usually about 7-10 km behind him depending on map) I get one full stealthed volley on whatever they sent to deal with my DD. Usually works lol

[@jesseygrosser4052]

If you have the ship can you maybe do the Kurfurst or FDG because i am strugilling with how to play the FDG because if i am in the center in that ship i get focus fired and die quickly

[@xchoo]

@Flamu High tier (T8/9/10) games are becoming increasingly steam-rollie where 5-10 mins in 1/4-1/2 of one of the teams are already dead (and an entire flank has collapsed). Do you have any tips on how to pull back from a situation like that?

[@xmlthegreat]

Chapayev at 5:13 got really damn lucky lol

[@eiresby2344]

well if u use JB/Riche/Alsace, it will over pen around that range if enemy show broadside with chapayev, if its CA or CB like alaska, it will citadel like flamuu did

[@cedric1731]

Man your positioning is awesome though your use of reload booster sometimes runs me crazy ^^

[@YoutuberBack]

Thank you, I can try to be better in JB now

[@andreaslarsson5022]

How did you get that amount of free xp? You have a good amount of emblems, i guess u have the economic signals and skin buff, but so do I when I play her and when I have a good score game I don't even get close to what u hade, is there something i have missed?