Changes The Navy Made to USS MIDWAY That Should Have Been On the Battleships

In this episode we're talking about USS MIDWAY.
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The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the content creator only and may not reflect the views and opinions of the Battleship New Jersey Museum & Memorial, the Home Port Alliance for the USS New Jersey, Inc., its staff, crew, or others. The research presented herein represents the most up-to-date scholarship available to us at the time of filming, but our understanding of the past is constantly evolving. This video is made for entertainment purposes only.

[@EjNappe]

The NATO launcher being loaded at 04:15 was on the USS Abraham Lincoln in April 2019! I was a CIWS Tech board and was just out of camera view! It was a 10-month cruise from Norfolk to San Diego.

[@georged9234]

Another person who served on NJ during the Korean War has recently left us. George Grom of Connecticut. RIP and thank you for your service.

[@jonathanstrong4812]

RYAN HOW DID BIG J RECEIVING AN|SPY-1 DATA FROM THE AEGIS CRUISERS?

[@kennethhummel4409]

Definitely the skegs, radar and improved command and control.

[@edwardpate6128]

The AN/SPS-48 and AN/SPS-49 very much complimented each other. The 49 having very long range detection capabilities with the 48 being capable of also detecting altitude. I served on USS Preble DDG-46 from 81 to 85 and we had both.

[@bobharrison7693]

The 4 Iowas and the 3 Midways shared similar hull and power plant designs. The engines were essentially identical whereas the Midways had 12 boilers in 12 fire rooms instead of the 8 larger boilers in 4 fire rooms in the Iowas. The Coral Sea had a damaged main engine replaced by one from -- I believe -- the Wisconsin. These CVs did not have blisters added because of stability problems due to sitting too low in the water. They had the same main deck and flight deck heights as the Essex class boats. The blisters on both classes, when modified, were added to compensate for added displacement from angled decks, steam catapults and heavier arresting gear. Each of the 3 Midways ended their careers with different flight deck and elevator configurations, The Midway's second and final angled deck modification (completed in the mid 60s) was the most radical of the three and sacrificed some of the efficiency and speed of operations of the Coral Sea configuration for a larger flight deck and longer cats. The huge Midway flight deck exacerbated the odd figure eight-like pitching and rolling motion resulting from the flat bottomed hull design. As I recall, Coral Sea in the early eighties could make just over 31kts on a full power run.

[@8vantor8]

couldn't of taken a engine from Wisconsin, she was one of the 4 Iowa's that were finished and active the only 2Iowa's they could of come off of would be Kentucky and Illinois.

[@forcea1454]

​@@8vantor8Kentucky and Illinois' turbines went into the Sacramento class AOEs.

[@TheDogGeneral]

@8vantor8 That's the problem with vessels and technology that has mileage on. Inevitably they outlive their own Surplus amount of components and supplies and have to have expensive custom-made spares, if not contemporary machinery Ultimately, the midways were just like any other Naval warship they had a lifespan, and so did their accessories and components. Ultimately the Midway class aircraft carriers biggest detriment and limitation was the fact that they were designed with piston driven aircraft in mind resulting in cramped accommodations they could never utilize the same number of jets that later aircraft carriers especially the supercarriers could field.

[@8vantor8]

@@TheDogGeneral ok, thats cool and all, but why did you feel the need to @ me about it when i was just correcting bad information?

[@TheDogGeneral]

@@8vantor8 I'm making commentary - there is nothing of the personal nature of it whatsoever I don't have emotional investitures in online Arenas I'm merely stating a fact that for someone that studies the second world war and maybe specifically the Iowa-class battleships or the Midway class aircraft carriers. The instance being is that well they are fixed in time but as we move further and further away from their calendar dates and eras the elasticity of maintenance is an issue as to why they are eventually sequestered and retired from active service because there are simply no more spare parts for them and maintaining them is a challenge buy an order of magnitude LOL, some things are made with a shelf life and that's the only commentary that I threw out there because that's what this section of this platform is for

[@Andrew_Murro]

Thank you for sharing your love of our classic warships.

[@chrisbrown1462]

Had a couple of co-workers who were on the Midway and America during Vietnam. America was built for slant deck and was a great ship. Midway had so much counterbalance in the hull that she would only roll to one side. Whenever they got in rough weather they said it was very unpleasant because the ship did not ride over the waves right. You could never quite get your sea legs.

[@alexv3357]

Also quite top-heavy in general, and without as much freeboard as later carriers, so a generally wet and unpleasant ride

[@markgordon2260]

That was a surprise - a WW11 designed carrier in charge in the early 1990s Gulf War!

[@jliller]

Yeah, I'd really love to know why.

[@suspiciousminds1750]

That's a relief, I thought your #1 change was going to be adding an angled flight deck to the Iowas! 😁

[@andyman8630]

lol!

[@BornRandy62]

Link 11 is associated with NTDS, NTDS NTU (New Threat Upgrade) and AEGIS. Link 14 is the teletype data link printed out on paper rolls.

[@Postmortumaz]

When i got to Yokosuka, many of my shipmates where Midway sailors. Midway was replaced by Indy. Good times out in Japan

[@RetiredSailor60]

My brother served on USS Midway in the mid 80s. He also served on USS Missouri during the first Gulf War

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

Lets be real, Ryan - if you were the admiral of your battlegroup, wouldn't _you_ want to be on your battleship rather than the dinky cruiser?

[@totallyaploy1824]

I think almost everyone would be.

[@michaelsommers2356]

I used to love listening to Link-11 on the radio. It has a great rhythm.

[@TheDogGeneral]

It's kind of ironic because the Midway herself inherited the internal Hull geometry of the USS Montana and those series of battleships she's a living blood relative if not a direct descendant the Midway is essentially a living montana-class Battleship though she was designed from the beginning to be an aircraft carrier it just has that shared lineage. It's not a big surprise that the Midway was kept in service and the New Jersey wasn't as Ryan Szymanski Illustrated the fact of the matter is the Midway was retained because she was an aircraft carrier and was viable as a battleship the New Jersey's days were relatively numbered as a consistency in the fleet

[@reinderkalsbeek4748]

I served on the USS CORAL SEA CVA-43 a Midway class

[@chrisb9960]

Decommissioned in 90 and scrapped in 94 right?

[@timpetta2974]

Refueled her from USS Ashtabula (AO-51)

[@williampreston9875]

My dad was also a Coral Sea sailor in 1972.

[@MT-ni1id]

I was an EW on Coral Sea 1974 -1979. She changed my life. I miss her.

[@jonathanstrong4812]

OH WOW!

[@Jams27]

I was also just in San Diego & on the Midway! That's pretty wild

[@krz8888888]

I haven’t had the chance to visit New-Jersey but had the chance to visit Midway. The scale and technology of these is absolutely atsounding

[@jimprice1959]

I worked on the USS Midway when it was in the San Francisco Naval Shipyard back in 1963 and 1964 and wrote up the test procedure for their ship service generators. I can't remember for sure but that might have been when the 1500 KVA generators were installed.

[@thekidfromcleveland3944]

Considering they were mostly used for training and showing the flag purposes up until the gulf got hot i dont necessarily think anything extra wouldve either been needed or kept them around longer than in our timeline especially Iowa who was as good as gone after the turret 2 incident. Maybe Wisconsin lasts as long as the Browns in the 90s but even with such improvements theyre still dinosaurs compared to the rest of the fleet and ultimately father time would catch up as it always does

[@iowa61]

The Iowas were not used for training purposes. Their primary use was as the center of Battleship Surface Action Groups-which presented complex problems for any enemy to counter and when combined with a CVBG, nearly impossible problems. They also provided unmatched naval gunfire support and nothing else is even close. In the Persian Gulf during the tanker wars, they did far more than “show the flag.” In fact in Congressional testimony the Navy described in detail how the presence of a BB in the Gulf shut down hostile activity. They are far from “dinosaurs.” If reactivated today, they would be amongst the fastest, most maneuverable, with the greatest non-nuclear endurance and hardest to sink ships in the fleet. They also offer significant repair and refueling capability to the fleet.

[@pminoregon9072]

As you mentioned regarding the generating capacity, the Midway was upgraded because it could be done cost effectively since it lacked armor. If gunfire support was still a priority for the Navy, and considering that the armor on the Iowa battleships was never utilized during their service, it seems to me that the 16" guns could have been transferred to a much less heavily armored monitor style hull. That hull could then have been kept in service through upgrades more easily. Unfortunately if they'd done that we wouldn't have four battleships as museums, so it is probably for the best that the ships were mostly kept as they were.

[@iowa61]

Actually they had to remove horizontal armor from the Midway at great difficulty and expense. Not sure the trade off was worth it. Once you start removing the armor, you lose one of the battleships’ great advantages-resistance to battle damage. And you also introduce cascading stability and structural issues.

[@wilsonle61]

We had JPTDS (a destroyer-sized version) of NTDS on my ship USS Cochrane DDG-21. Run by a UYK-7 computer it surely would have fit aboard New Jersey.

[@RetiredSailor60]

I served on USS Semmes DDG 18 1983-84

[@samthemultimediaman]

the docking keels, radar, improved electronics, updated auto loading 5"/54s, new turbo generators, im sure theres even more they could have done.

[@robertf3479]

As you've noted in a number of previous videos, there were literally thousands of proposals for changes, deletions and additions to be made to these battleships. The idea though was to get their big and expensive butts out into the fleet as quickly and "cost effectively" as possible. One thing you've suggested that I wouldn't would be adding the NATO Sea Sparrow. Both ships I served in had it and the system was nicknamed "Sea Chicken" for a reason. The missiles would often NOT go after the designated target but would either self-identify as an ASROC or go wandering off in some unexpected / unwanted direction. Sea Ram paired with the CIWS gun systems would be a better choice IMHO. I totally agree with swapping out as many turbo-generators with more powerful sets as possible, also of adding a couple of diesel generator sets if room could be identified, even outside of the armored citadel for the same reason. NTDS was a "must have" system. I'm surprised / disappointed that the Iowa class didn't get it.

[@Loki1701e]

At the time RAM deffo wasnt a thing. But by the 90s i dont see the point of RAM over thr mk29 launcher as ESSMs were in development.

[@tidepoolclipper8657]

In the best case scenario of the Iowas remaining in service up till the 1990s; I'd say the upgrades that'd make sense to transfer from Midway are air search radar, task control center, and navy tactical data system.

[@53kenner]

The briefing that I got when I was attached to Naval Reserve Ship Repair Facility Yokosuka, DET 113, was that the blisters were detrimental to handling. They made the ship's roll rate closely approximate that of the wave crests in the Pacific, meaning that a feedback caused excessive rolling.

[@bohica401]

I remember when that photo was taken I was a hull technician on board midway I believe we had just finished an I O cruise on our way to Sydney. USS Midway hull was originally laid out to be a battle ship that's why there's a similarity.

[@crazyguy32100]

I'd think that cutting the skegs would be significantly harder on one of the Iowas than Midway. The armored steering box above the rudders makes the battleships much heavier in the back than the carrier. Trying to cut away something with that much weight resting on it could be a problem.

[@randyfant2588]

The Iowas were definitely short changed. The fact that the tore out the Admirals cabin to keep other Admirals from taking them as a flag ship shows the mentality of those doing the modifications.

[@PatBob5150]

My dad served on the Midway from 1976 to 1979 (Yokosuka Japan). I'm not sure what you mean by "torpedo blisters" on the hull. My dad said that they had to raise the flight deck in order to get the newer jet fighters to fit in the hangar deck (height issue). This changed the center of buoyancy and so the idea was to add those hill blisters to address this issue. The Japanese naval architects warned against this modification because they believed it would cause stability issues, which it did. My dad said that in rougher waters the ship would "snap roll" which the pilots hated because it made for a more challenging landing. I was in high school at the time and a couple of the high school kids dads were killed trying to land in rough seas.

[@PatBob5150]

I meant "hull blisters"...

[@scottcooper4391]

As a former CIC officer, MY Number one would have been NTDS, followed by the flag officer version. The rest of your list would be nice, but command / control situational awareness takes precedence over all.

[@SoloRenegade]

I'm reading "Battleship Victory" by Robert Lundgren, about 2/3 through. And I can't find any fault in his logic so far. I think you were right in your comments about the Battleships still being relevant and not supplanted by carriers. Carriers cannot do the role of a battleship and the battleship role/s are still needed today. Now, one could make a case that the Burke Destroyers (Cruisers really) are essentially carrying out the role of the battleships today. And in a post-WW2 world, most nations no longer had battleships, so no need to have battleships in your navy to counter non-existing enemy battleships. But it's an interesting idea that needs more investigation for sure. I really think you should do an ENTIRE video on this topic/issue.

[@cgokey5491]

my grandpa was a plank holder on midway when it was comissioned

[@mikepekarek5895]

This was not your usual video on subject, IMO, and I thought it was fascinating. Thanks.

[@henrycarlson7514]

So wise , Thank You. They are very interesting ideas .As trivia Midway Replaced us, Ranger Cv 61 after we hit a tanker going through the straits of Malaka

[@Unicorn_onpainkiller]

Oh dang i was just at the midway during your trip, I wish i could've said hi

[@christiantroy3034]

Great analytical comparison video

[@KennanKlein]

All of these upgrades would have added a lot of value. But I still think the general consensus was the battleship era was over. Time has passed them by. I've been on the Missouri and hope to someday soon walk the decks of the New Jersey. Thanks for all you do Brian!

[@jamestorrence9340]

When I was in the USAF, stationed at Yokota AB, during Pres Reagans visit in May 1986, everyone in my worksite were offered a tour of - and flight in - the airborne national command post. I could not go, as I was the shift supervisor that day. A year later, while I was stationed at the Key West Naval Station, on the Admirals comms staff, my worksite was in the comms section of the U.S. Forces Carribian HQ. The Midway paid a visit to Key West and my worksite were offered a tour of the Midway. Again, I could not go because I was the lead in the Comm Center that day. I'm still bummed, after all these years.

[@RetiredSailor60]

I was in Yokosuka from April to August 1986 while deployed on USS Cape Cod AD 43. I remember when Reagan was in Japan for the Economic Summit

[@jonathan_60503]

Of course the biggest change to Midway was adding the angled deck. Notice you weren't calling for some of the weird Iowa upgrade proposals that would swap the rear turret for an angled deck and some Harriers :D

[@markwatson3135]

I think the key here is Midway was in almost continued service, where New Jersey kept getting put into reserve. I’d imagine the thinking was why put all this updated gear on New Jersey when we are not even sure if or when she will be reactivated.

[@Alcochaser]

I think your going at this from the wrong angle. Instead of adding stuff from an aircraft carrier, they needed more stuff from the Ticonderoga class. Yank all the 5 inch mounts. In their place put VLS cells for the standard missile. VLS cells would have been recessed and fairly shielded. To retain 5 inch install a couple modern 5 inch modern auto loaders. You could then get rid of 5 inch plot and a ton of manpower, allowing the 5 inches to be controlled from CEC.

[@MadRat70]

While at it, replace Bofors mounts, too, for something utilitary like storable solar and push the idea of distributed and automated sensors. Long range tele-optics accessible from underdeck for managing space around the ship. Add some smaller radars to scan low on the water during austere conditions. A couple of Bushmasters per quadrant would provide security from speedboats. You can add in a laser guided rocket system for a short-range precision defense that is low tech enough to function on independent power sources. No need for the sheer quantity of those huge legacy mounts when technology has made them obsolete.

[@Loki1701e]

this was proposed for the 90s iowa refits. Which wouldve saw all the remaining old 5in 38s removed for 5in ultralight. This wpuldve coincided with removal of all the tomahawk box launchers and resdesigning the deck space there to house between 120 and 200 mk41 VLS cells.

[@Alcochaser]

@@Loki1701e Now that.. would have been awesome.

[@medrickdevaney1171]

~~ Keep The History Coming. "We Need To Know Where We've Been, To Keep Us Going In An Even Better Directions"

[@glennac]

And because young people today don’t believe we went to the Moon and other such conspiracy theories. Soon they won’t believe there ever was a WWII. 🙄

[@charlesmaurer6214]

Noticed too the updates in the midway was newer hardware than the limited stuff the NJ got. Early 80's vs late 80's. That added cost would depend in part on the additional life in service as to the value. The Iowa class spent much of that time in reserve limiting return while the carrier didn't. I think like in the Porthole show I would ad more CWIS secondaries and perhaps for your added missiles and shifting you could pull more of the five inch secondaries and even rework the smaller gun houses as blast shields for the launchers. After the gun is pulled the sides could be cut and rewelded at new angles with the front and top removed. Moving the skegs forward would have one added problem you didn't mention and that is exposing more of the screw. With the service that might not have been an issue but in that different timeline would be an added risk like the thin spot on turret one that was never tested. I think your ideas should be included in a future design like the Arsenal/Mini Landing Assault nuclear one I have described plus the energy/rail gun replacements for the big guns.

[@bigsarge2085]

Fascinating!

[@dutchman7216]

Any genuine improvement would have been welcomed. This was an awesome episode Ryan. Thank you I hope you found time to visit the Fan Tail Cafe on Uss Midway.

[@TheBassman28]

As an Electrician, I appreciate your desire for 2000 more KW! Damn... that can make some 80's era electronics hum right along.

[@RetiredSailor60]

TFCC stands Tactical Flag Command Center. USS LaSalle AGF 3 had a TFCC when I was stationed in Bahrain with COMUSNAVCENT ...

[@jeebusk]

interesting, thanks!

[@lysanderxiiii]

The blisters on the USS Midway gave the ship undesirable roll characteristics. In fact, it limited air operation in certain sea states. By the 1980's the battleships were primarily used for NGF, so I don't know how welcome that change would have been.

[@PostalWorker14]

The angled deck was too big on Midway could’ve added a outer hull to build additional supercarrier

[@roberthilton5328]

I could agree with the skegs being cut back if simulations proved it would make a difference. For the command and control and power, I'm not sure of the viability in a missile-swarm environment. The battleships would have to be the biggest and first targets for the barrage of missiles sent and while they may not sink the ship, they could definitely cause a mission-kill by knocking out the topside communications, sensors, etc. Other ships could act as the command and control and the brutal logic would be for the battleship to absorb the attack while the admiral in charge is on some other ship to continue the battle against a significantly depleted opponent.

[@avshutsach]

Living in San Diego, I love visiting the Midway she is always a neat girl

[@pauld6967]

It would have been nice to have those changes made back to then but it's too late now to Monday morning quarterback. Perhaps they will keep all of your list in mind should the decision be made to reactivate the Iowa class or build new battleships. Perhaps this time including a nuclear power plant.

[@cavalierliberty6838]

Clearly, the Montana needs to ride, seeing as how people still haven't learned the cardinal rule number 1. DON'T TOUCH THE BOATS.

[@1995paul1]

Great work here as always Ryan! Could you tell me where did you find these good quality videos of the Midway in construction ?

[@DavidSmith-cx8dg]

A lot depends on the ships role . A carrier needs to be protected as it's carrying aircraft ,probably the most important assets of any force so it's logical to be the command and control centre . The limited electrical capacity and adding to it is a really good point .

[@scottgustafson1954]

Yes. I think Sea Sparrow systems should have been added to New Jersey , in the 1980s New Jersey would have provided overlapping fields of AA fire for the fleet, which it accompanied

[@sparkplug1018]

What could be a fun follow up video to this one would be where do you think they would have added the additional equipment? How do you think they would have reconfigured the ship, and where do you think things would have gone, or how you would have done it.

[@gr84x4]

Watching the Bearing Straight podcast, made me think about reactivating the battleship. Did the Navy inspect her when she was in dry dock?

[@wtfbuddy1]

What did it bring to a 1985 and onward fight against a neer peer advisory? The Ticonderoga cruisers were built with more offensive firepower and sensors and smaller crews = more ships for the fleet to cover the seas. The only thing NJ had against it was time - sorry. Cheers

[@bjturon]

Yes to Sea Sparrow! 🚀

[@m9ovich785]

Thanks Ryan. I hope the Helicopter was plugged into ship Power to keep the red light blinking.. ?

[@pittsburghwill]

i think they need to be upgrading the iowas right now

[@franklentz5388]

The blisters fitted to Midway ended as a failure. When underway with the F-18 air wing embarked they found the ship would roll beyond limits for flight operations.

[@OliverHinz]

That sounds interesting!

[@ThemightyEnterprise]

Man I would love to have seen Midway in her 45 configuration, I just like it more

[@Yaivenov]

How about clipping the stern into a transom, extending the bow bulb, and torsionally stiffening the bow? ETA: swap the old 5"/38 mounts for modern 5", and VLS cells under the "flight deck".

[@thatcarguy1UZ]

I think when they were re-activated in the 80's, they should have done the docking keel mod, and they should have eliminated the #3 turret and used that area for an Arleigh-Burke style VLS missile system, sea sparrows, and a full suite of anti-aircraft / anti-missile defense system, and upgraded the turbo-generators. She still would have been excellent for shore bombardment with her remaining 2 gun turrets, but she would have picked up a whole lot of other capabilities in the process. I think that all the Iowa classes should have been updated this way. I think this would have also made them better suited to their role as being the centerpiece of a non carrier battle group, which would have alleviated stress on the carrier battle groups when you didn't need all of the aircraft support but still needed to project force. Who knows, if they had, they might still be in service! All right, I will admit that's a bit of a pipe dream but maybe they would have been in service for a good 10 or 15 years longer than they otherwise were.

[@ndmmt-wu7kz]

The utility of those upgrades depends on the missions. They all received austere upgrades. Personally I would have removed the rear turret for an angled jump deck to transform these ships into carrying VSTOLs to give them a realistic chance for being the centerpiece of an effective SAG.

[@etfrankify]

my understanding was the blister’s actually led to instability to midway and in rough seas she would roll. I always thought the mim 72 would’ve been a good stop gap for the iowa’s as opposed to sea sparrow. Could store the ordnance when firing the main guns

[@stevencovington4715]

I was on Midway before, during, and after the blister project (May 1985-July 1987 in charge of M-division #1 engine/ pump/ generator group.. She rode a LOT smoother before the blister project. The change in the hull dynamic caused changes in how the outer (#1 & #4) main engines performed. Also, I was not aware of them changing ANY of the SSTG's capabilities per se; they did upgrade the governing system and added an electric oil pump drive. ( It used to SUCK when a generator tripped, as a human had to manually crank an oil pump during shut-down.)

[@etfrankify]

@@stevencovington4715 i want to say it was on all marine radio the host discussing it had mentioned it, and i had read it from wiki Midway received hull blisters in 1986. During her 1986 refit (named "Extended Incremental Selected Repair Availability"), blisters were added to improve the ship's stability. The modification proved counterproductive, as it actually increased the ship's instability in rough seas. She took water over the flight deck during excessive rolls in moderate seas, thereby hampering flight operations. Before another $138 million refit was approved to rectify the stability problems, it was even proposed to decommission Midway. Nevertheless, she had earned herself the nickname "Rock'n Roll carrier." During a typhoon while in the Sea of Japan during the Olympic Games in Seoul, Korea, on 8 October 1988, Midway, which was not supposed to be able to sustain more than 24 degrees of roll, survived a 26-degree roll. so interesting to hear different

[@etfrankify]

@@stevencovington4715 this may be a double post but i believe i had heard it on all marine radio(the host was on the mardet) but i believe he mentioned the rolling issue and read on wiki “Midway received hull blisters in 1986. During her 1986 refit (named "Extended Incremental Selected Repair Availability"), blisters were added to improve the ship's stability. The modification proved counterproductive, as it actually increased the ship's instability in rough seas. She took water over the flight deck during excessive rolls in moderate seas, thereby hampering flight operations. Before another $138 million refit was approved to rectify the stability problems, it was even proposed to decommission Midway. Nevertheless, she had earned herself the nickname "Rock'n Roll carrier." During a typhoon while in the Sea of Japan during the Olympic Games in Seoul, Korea, on 8 October 1988, Midway, which was not supposed to be able to sustain more than 24 degrees of roll, survived a 26-degree roll.” interesting to hear different

[@charlesmaurer6214]

Expanding blister design may cause a harmonic like the skegs but should make her a more stable fire platform but the main issue would be the loss of use of the Panama Canal. Think the roll in midway was that it lost the keel effect in high seas with the expanded area. Ships need to be ballasted with a broad bottom and we used flat bottoms too that lose the stabilization you sometime see with extended keel fin like structures on many ocean boats to help counter that effect. Even keels are bad for sailing but near even keels can perform well. The extra weight aft in the Iowas help with both handling and cutting the water forward though as a museum she does ride higher than intended and the trim is even a bit steeper.

[@mikee9756]

I do believe keeping the general appearance of the ship was considered when they were modified. A lot of the stuff mentioned such as NATO Sea sparrow and SPS48 really have no business on a battleship that’s not expected to serve without an escort fleet. In fact, I’d suspect that if the SPS 40 wasn’t out of production by 1982, you probably would have received that over the SPS 49. In fact that’s the reason for USS Hayler having an SPS 49 while the rest of the Spruance class has the 40

[@forcea1454]

Sea Sparrow was planned for the Phase II upgrades (along with various other improvements like improved hangar facilities for the drones, Mk 160 fire control system etc) that were cancelled at the end of the Cold War. Agree with you on SPS-48, although I would think TAS Mk 23 would be necessary if Sea Sparrow was to be used.

[@BamBamBigelow..]

Admiral’s comfort affects Ship’s effectiveness

[@ronaldmiller2740]

HI RYAN,, COULD YOU TELL ME AS BOB HOPE AND HIS ENTERANERS AND SINGERS WOULD GO ALL AROUND THE WORLD TO KEEP THE TROOPS HAPPY AND CALM FROM THE WAR,, DID HE COME ABOARD THE BB 62 EVER ..?? THANKS..

[@reinderkalsbeek4748]

The ageless warrior (1980-1984) Alameda California

[@jimkemp3985]

As Ryan said, battleships were not designed for long range anti-air capability and it was intended that Admirals would command the task force from a well equipped cruiser (or carrier), so I wouldn't be too concerned that NTDS wasn't retrofitted into the Iowas when they had the chance. However, Sea Sparrow and certainly shortening the docking keels would have been a very logical, valuable and doable modification. I can only assume that the 80's retrofit was already so far over budget (it was overbudget, wasn't it? everything else always is) that the docking keel modification was out of the question.

[@user-yd1fy8mp8i]

You talk about the vibration at sped. Simulator as to all the fast Battleships. Did the Alaska class Large cruisers have the same problem?

[@m_hub3957]

what is needed now is a BB design. nuke powered, 30mm CWIS, RAM CWIS, Aegis, armor to make sure missiles and drone bounce, 300+ VLS canisters, 12" guns rapid fire, 155mm secondary battery, all shells GPS and/or laser guided, deck that can take Attack Helos and F-35 (even if it is a poor plane) and rearm and refuel them. Prairie Masker and VDS system. that's a start a laser defense system would be good also, to remove the need for ammo resupply

[@MadRat70]

Putting an 8" gun on a modern ship probably classifies it as a battleship.

[@BearstowsBarnstormers]

Not from Midway but 16 inch AGS would be an entertaining program addition

[@michaelholt8590]

I love the fact that the admirals wanted to have the old battleships as their flag ships. I would have too.

[@surfingnoid]

Great video! Maybe it’s the early morning coffee kicking in, or maybe it's my latent OCD-perhaps both, or even other reasons-but the video's thumbnail is really screwing with me having the carrier’s island on the port side :-\

[@adamskm7187]

Here's a question since we have 4 battleships, do you think that we could have a battleship upgraded to modern parameters and capabilities?

[@davewolfy2906]

To take those improved facilities to the NJs - that is a big crew. A cruiser does the same with a smaller crew. Would you put those facilities close to the enemy where the guns could be used?

[@samstewart4807]

hi, I asked this question last yr. After looking at the United States Liner with it's 1000 psi boilers- Was the boiler pressure in the Midway also 600 psi?? How difficult would it be to up the pressure to 1000 psi? AND do you know if there were plans to update the Illinois and Kentucky to 1000 psi???? I wonder how much faster all would be???

[@firstsgt279]

Hard to believe but for Desert Shield 5 of Aircraft Carriers, inc Midway were 30-45yr old Conventional Non-Nuclear Vessels. Not sure if was due to availability or for the actual Aircraft they were carrying compared to other Nuclear Carriers. 4 of these Carriers, Midway, Ranger, America and Saratoga were then Retired 1-4yrs after end of Desert Storm. Sadly as we all know Iowa's also joined them in Retirement

[@lachbullen8014]

The sea sparrows would have been unnecessary because New Jersey would have relied on its escorts of cruises Destroyers and frigates not to mention it would have had a carrier with it F14 tomcats end f-18 Hornets and nuclear powered submarine for good measure so it would have had layers upon layers of defence.. it could have been a possibility if they removed one of the 5 inch guns on the port and starboard side..

[@andyman8630]

CIWS was installed no? 1 fwd and 1 aft - isn't that 'close' enough?

[@LightOfZeon]

Would replacing the entire 5in battery with Sea Sparrows have been a good solution to #5? Or would the blast effects still have affected them there?

[@danquigg8311]

Isn't that thumbnail pic reversed?? Shouldn't the CV's island be on the STARBOARD side of the ship? Aren't they a bit close together, too? Well, unless they are unreping or transferring via a high line.

[@BattleshipNewJersey]

It is reversed, good eye! but the closeness is accurate, not sure what was happening, probably highline/unrep

[@isambardbrunell70]

Photo of Midway was probably taken below the Equator. That causes what we photographers call "The Australia Effect" flips everything arse end to.

[@williestyle35]

​@@isambardbrunell70 lol, the "Australia effect" strikes again!

[@williamriley-le9zo]

@@isambardbrunell70 Yeah, and the water spins in reverse...LOL

[@glennac]

Ryan couldn’t accept that NJ wasn’t on the right. 😅

[@SovietDictator]

It's not fair that Midway got an angled flight deck and New Jersey did not.

[@mcm4611]

The Midway did not have the NATO Seasparrow missile system shown in the video. The Midway had a much older missile system known as Basic Point Defense Surface Missile System (BPDSMS), a predecessor to the NATO Seasparrow. I know this because I worked on the system on the Midway

[@michaelsommers2356]

_New Jersey_ probably had too little life left to justify major, expensive, changes.

[@CsendesMark]

Not having those medium range rockets is ok, since battleships are not sailing alone anyway, so some of the ships in the group can have those opposing to the do it all alone attitude.

[@josephahner3031]

The only change I would have insisted on is adding Sea Sparrow. The rest don't give the Navy as a whole much value for money that they don't get elsewhere. Sea Sparrow adds massively to the ship's survivability in the face of Soviet anti-ship missiles designed to kill supercarriers that could have done to the Iowa Class what US dive bombers did to Yamato.

[@bz3020]

When was the island moved from starboard to port as in the photo?

[@franklinwerren7684]

Electric usage went up because of the old fashioned solid state electronics. I expect today with fleet networks that one ship could share its radar with other ships and in all actuality that network and 3d radars in use today some fleet functions can be paired up with basic radars combined with a network interface the battle space would be better mapped. Even aiming the 16 inch guns with computer control would be more accurate. Modern GPS guidance of shells would put a lot of hurt on enemy forces without the errors!!! The battle ship today is just a moveable gun platform and limited to not more than 30 miles with modern shells. So today the USMC would have less problems with shore landings. DE N2JYG

[@elijahwerner6130]

By the '80's and '90's, the writing was appearing on the wall for the battleship concept but not for carriers, so I would imagine substantial modifications would involve a change of purpose for New Jersey. I looked up the stats for USS Blue Ridge, a command and control vessel, and found some surprising comparisons. New Jersey is significantly faster and has more powerful engineering. New Jersey is a good bit longer but has the same beam. I have to imagine Blue Ridge gets better fuel economy and is overall cheaper to operate. Blue Ridge I'm sure is a very capable ship but does not look particularly imposing, which I do think matters when operating abroad. All this makes me wonder if it might have made some sense to largely gut an Iowa out, retaining the ability to engage with the main battery but understanding that delivering firepower was no longer the primary mission, and convert it into essentially a command and control ship. Given how lightly armed Blue Ridge is, I'd bet most if not all of the 5" guns would be removed to open up space; probably other space could be gained by reducing or eliminating some of the capabilities necessary for a WWII battleship but obsolete in today's world. On the other hand, probably it would be cheaper to just build a purpose-made ship, as was done with Blue Ridge.

[@stevemccarthy4713]

On the BB's not really a need for the SPS-48 Radars, SPS-49 is just fine. Sea Sparrow has it's own radar. Same situation on the Spruance Class DD's, but they had an SPS-40 instead of a 49.

[@apollo4619]

I wonder, since the seasprite helo was so small. The Iowa’s could have had a hanger for one aft of the helipad for an embarked helicopter. Or am I wrong here? My thought process is if it’s small enough for Oliver hazards it could fit on the fantail

[@ronaldkitzmiller538]

Yes

[@philreeves3626]

I worked on improvements to Link-11 as a young engineer in the early 90s. Link-11 is a 1600 bits per second radio modem. Impossibly slow by today's standards

[@boldgambit7896]

Alternate timeline where the Cold War persisted into the early 2000s and the Iowa's were fully modernized and the US restarted production of 16 inch shells

[@pukalo]

10:55 Ryan for a couple frames

[@guessmyhandle]

I’m always baffled how upgrades are defeated by our own armor