BATTLETECH: The Gargoyle / Man o' War

The #Gargoyle has arrived. This #ClanWolf #Battlemech, which is now as of the #Ilclan era also in the hands of #ClanHellsHorses is one of the first #Clan #AssaultMechs to have entered the #InnerSphere on the front lines of the #ClanInvasion launched in 3050.
But this design is not without its detractors, and its not without its controversies. More than a few dub it as the Clan #Charger, and perhaps rightly so.
So, my #Mechwarrior enthusiast friends, let us begin looking at this Wolf-Mech with open eyes, and examine the #ManOWar, as the Spheroids call it, for its virtues, and for its faults.
Because this #Omnimech most definitely has faults.
#Darkage #ChargerIIC #TimberWolf #Woodsman #Winning #Wolf #HellsHorses #GoldenCentury
Join this channel in order to support this content:
/ @bigred40tech
Join us on the free Discord as well!:
/ discord
Note: I am not associated with the Battletech / Mechwarrior IP, and create this under fair-use. Ownership of the Battletech IP resides with several companies at this time. I support all official releases.

[@JS-kr8fs]

Clan Wolf: "We're going to mount the weapons exclusively on the arms, to make it faster to refit and rearm." Also Clan Wolf: "Why are we constantly having to literally rearm the thing?"

[@BigRed40TECH]

#Winning

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

Gargoyle vs atlas gargoyle disarmed

[@kwangsoo515]

To be fair the arms also have the widest firing arcs which helps you bring them to bear while engaging in evasive maneuvers.

[@TheArtofFencing]

@@kwangsoo515 i mean, the main reason is so you don't loose firepower if you take additional armor eh I mean Battle Armor troops into combat :)

[@kwangsoo515]

@@TheArtofFencing I gave you a like because it is a funny meme but realistically if you treated infantry like armor you would be court-martialed and even in the clans you would be challenged to trials of grievance until someone killed you.

[@BoisegangGaming]

Clan Hell's Horses is simultaneously the most wrinkly- and smooth-brained out of all of the clans. *embraces Combined Arms Doctrine* *replaces a cavalry mech with a Gargoyle for some Founder-forsaken reason*

[@heirofaniu]

*rips a fat line of coke* "GUYS! What if we took a Warhammer but made it a MEGA WARHAMMER?" Hellbringer is born. And it was glorious.

[@bthsr7113]

Then you have them making the Hellstar, one of the nastiest mechs in the entire setting as of 3079. And the Thunder Stallion for fun.

[@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus]

Iam convinced clan hells horses was most just the guys at KELTEC

[@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus]

@@heirofaniu funny enough that’s how KELTEC makes 90% of its designs too

[@heirofaniu]

@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Nah KELTEC is what happens when your design lead for all your products is a fourteen year old boy who starts every design project with the statement "Hey guys! You know what would be the tightest shit?"

[@darkalman]

I find it amusing that the Gargoyle Prime was Ulric Kerensky's mech of choice

[@joaomonteiro5538]

Might as well been coffin shopping that day

[@jong2359]

He had full rights of customization, and he chose 2 arm mounted LB2X cannons and 14 torso mounted streak SRM tubes. Coffin shopping is right.

[@SamSam-qh1os]

Ulric did not want to sweat in the cockpit... it ruined his clan pretty-boy image.

[@kazekamiha]

The reason the IS likely feared them because it's still a clan mech in an era where such things would be feared; doubly so if it's common and has more chances to get kills.

[@goliathxanatos706]

Personally I've always liked the Gargoyle. I remember playing it on Mechwarrior 2 Mercs and Mechwarrior 4 Mercs. Both times were fun using it. In the technical readouts and canon material though, I can understand your vitriol towards it. Still, it's a mech I do have fond memories of.

[@pakornwattanavrangkul2550]

From the art, it looks like what happens when you remove the eyepatch from the grasshopper and gave it ballistics.

[@Raist474]

I can't unsee it now.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Holy crap. I never thought of the LRM-5 as an eye patch! How did I not see that!?

[@MrHeadphones64]

It's not like grasshopper needed another reason to be cool, but that's kind of awesome

[@thebritishgeek]

This is something I love about battletech, it's realistic in terms of designers chasing a dream of the perfect war machine. We still do it today, we have very flawed machines trying to do too much (Bradley, humvee, harrier, ect)

[@baker90338]

The Bradley isn’t bad. The humvee was specialized for a conventional war, and the harrier I don’t know all the details on

[@thebritishgeek]

@@baker90338 no it's not bad, none of them are bad. It the us military tried to push them into roles they were never meant to be

[@ChaosTicket]

I like the Gargoyle despite it being kind of wrong for the job on its class. On the positive its a Charger, but done right. Its gotten a lot of attention recently, making cool poses on covers. Its extremely fast for an Assault Mech thanks to its Extralight Engine. Its Prime Configuration is deliberately undergunned, but any of its configurations that focus on energy weapons are very powerful. Configuration C is a brawler with an Ultra-Autocannon 20 and 6 clan-grade Extended Range Medium Lasers. Configuration D use 2 clan-grade Extended Range Large Lasers to snipe enemies, 3 clan-grade Medium Pulse Lasers for short-medium range, and uses a Targeting Computer. The Configuration K is nuts. The clans abandoned tradition on this one, arming it with a inner-sphere Hatchet and Supercharger. It has 12 Streak SRM tubes, and 4 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers.

[@KeystoneCarcajou]

I've used the D model to good effect. The key to success with it is to pair it with something which will draw attention better. it cannot easily afford to be focused down.

[@robkitchen5344]

It understandable that you like the Gargoyle.. you have stated that in your table top game play like faster mechs are your preference so naturally one of 2 of these would find it's way into any trianary or cluster 5hat you created... Or I assume you would. Personally, I have one anchoring a scout star by adding jump jets into it to increase it's mobility... If a innersprear scout lance doesn't immediately turn tail and run.. 8t will draw most of their fire being it the easiest of my mechs to hit .. giving normal light medium mechs with it easy shots into their backs 8f 5hey ran or close into short range if they choose to remain.... Regardless a Gargoyle can soak up damage from any IS mech assigned to scout for my troops . mobile enough to avoid artillery strikes from hidden observation as I equipped Beagle/ECM on all my mechs( 1 ton iweight for combo unit... Protects from C 3 being used against me..I know 1st hand what I can do with a battalion of mechs with C3 against clan w/o ECM protection... Sacrifice fast heavy mech to get into 7 hexes .or short range of ERPPC. .. and everyone gets to fire as if it's short range . As long as the dice are rolling average...i ll destroy a clan triany all day 2ith a C3 eqqipted IS battalion or 3 companies or mechs...... All day long......unless theirs ECM protection for the clans.... Then 3 of my command mechs are short 4 tons of load out the CAR command unit weighs and 33 other mechs are short 1 medium lasers or what C3 slave unit weighs...which is a lot of fire inpower given up 5o have a C3 equipt battalion... I had to point out what my friends playing the clans failed to read in the 3050 technical readout.. which I myself didn't see at first when we 1st had the clan invasion.....it wasn't from my memory too much info on ECM in 2750 technical readout on what it nullifies... Nuch like the game play for the Executioner nal-void shield does...although I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I would have fielded multiple Executioners in a game had it spelled out anything like plus 2 to a 2d6 4lroll at long rwnge... I'm certain of that one... ECM = no sensor locks from TAG or Narc or C3 ... Surprised it doesn't nullify Artimis as well...but ...well worth the 1 ton cost ...so I've made that standard on all mechs.regarless of weight or purpose.. Not just 1 per star to cover all 5 mech.ALL MECHS lstead of 6 ER medium Lasers...only 5 now... .. The ECM bubble is only 5 hexes around ... With speed of some mech... Quickly out distance the coverage or curtail the speed of faster mechs making them easier to hit... Keeping 5 mech within the ECM bubble...makes straffing..from aerotech fighters....or long tom artillery that much easier to succeed in hurting me or me hurting someone with my ambushes I invent some times... . So I decided every mech gets the ECM/Beagle Probe combo unit... Gargoyles are great for thrawting traps and ambushes cuz of their mobility( should have jump jets as standard equipment) .. entrapping the victims is for sure the most successful executed ambushing. I've accomplished... Beagle. Active Probe works detecting hidden shut down mechs vechicles but will only alert that it's being jammed by ECM .. however... Natural hazards can go undetected... So hidden pitfalls orswampand rubble always work to slow down non jumping mechs

[@Xeno426]

The Prime is evil if you use Duel rules, since it's oversinked enough to keep firing its guns all the time. It's also mean if Called Shots (different from Aimed Shots) are used. The Gargoyle is also nice in Clan vs IS battles, because it has quite low BV but good armor, which is useful. The only real bad one, IMO, is the B. What's odd is that the Gargoyle isn't popular with the Ghost Bears. Not only looking kinda like the Executioner, it has an overly large engine for its size (something the Bears seem to like) and most of its weapons are in the arms--making it good for ferrying BA.

[@Kepora1]

This design doesn't HAVE to be bad. I just opened Skunkworks and made a variant with an ER PPC and SRM6 in each arm, kept the ER small in the CT, and 2 ER Mediums in each side torso. It can slam both ER PPCs at range and run, or fire everything else and run while remaining heat neutral, and with room to breath in the latter firing pattern. Quite frankly, ballistics just are NOT weight efficient for 40 and 80 tonners in general, in my experience. Energy builds, however, tend to shine on them IMO. As for 40 tonners...it seems to be a sweet spot for potential LAM designs. I actually made a decent little Raven LAM that uses Clantech lasers (we got access to them in my current campaign) that'd make a fantastic tank hunter and scout.

[@jamesricker3997]

Weak builds are done on purpose by the Clans. If you can win in a weak design, you are a skilled warrior. Extremely skilled pilots would explain its reputation

[@jong2359]

Non skilled warriors rely on numbers, be it by tonnage or amount of engines on the field. Skilled warriors could take a subpar but quirky mech and win battles with them. However, I do not believe that Clan Wolf fell into the realm of intentionally gimping this mech... this was a very intentional attempt at perfection that landed in the deepest water of mediocrity. The Gargoyle is neither quirky nor gimped, it is just poorly made.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Gargoyle K (the hatchet wielder) is basically a Clan Berzerker.

[@schaddenkorp6977]

Biggest thing that holds this mech back are the 8 double heat sinks built into the f’ing engine. Take out some, upgrade SRM 6s to ATM 6s, exchange LBX for Large pulses, throw on whatever else makes you happy.

[@scytheseven9173]

Nah, Omnimechs ought to fill out their engine heat sinks because those can't be pod-mounted-it's way more space-efficient to use those engine slots.

[@dwwolf4636]

​​@@scytheseven9173The Gargoyle lacks the Pod space to fill out those internals to begin with...... 2 Less DHS would equals almost 10% more pod space. A switch from FF to Endosteel and using half of that mass for armor would do the same thing. Those would be the easiest fixes to the Gargoyle.

[@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285]

"The Gargoyle: We'll figure something out eventually!"

[@Chris_Sizemore]

21 tons of pod space is not impressive for an assault mech. If you save 12 crit slots by including 6 additional double heat sinks in the 400 XL engine, you can spend 7 more to give this mech clan endo steel. The extra 8 tons of pod space would make a huge difference.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Phoenix Hawk IIC you say?

[@tehpw7574]

@@BigRed40TECH It's nerfed but it wasn't always so (prior to game introduction back in the 90s, ALL the Clan Omnimechs from 3050 used initially had Endo Steel). They changed the Garg, Warhawk and Summoner to use Standard Internals for the game, which is why the Summoner and Gargoyle are less funcitonally effective than the Timber Wolf (another reason to hate it by proxy, sir). A gargoyle with endo would have been far more terrifying if not more unplayable because of the ridiculous BV1 (or BV2) value it would have...

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@tehpw7574 Just grab the Phoenix Hawk IIC

[@scytheseven9173]

It's 4 tons of pod space saved, not 8

[@EvillBob]

Chase your dreams: get a Gargoyle C, charge any turn you're not hosing enemies down with lasers, and blap anything dumb enough not to keep their to hit modifier up with the UAC20. It's a Clan Charger all right, except you can't just use faster forces to stay out of squishing range.

[@JadedWidower357]

It looks like something you'd put with battle armors to escort vehicles. It's a really heavy support mech, I think.

[@nemamiah7832]

80-tonners are the BattleTech Designer's Folly weight class. So often any 80-tonner can be made better by switching to a 75-t chassis. But! It is fun though, you have to admit.

[@jonbezeau3124]

While we're throwing shade at the Gargoyle, let's not forget how some of the invasion omnis being brought up for comparison are protected by I think 6.5 tons of ff armor?

[@johnw5154]

Great listen. Cheers

[@Neur0tic666]

Great video, though I have to ask did you create the image with the Gargoyle or is it from a book or something else? A few minutes in I realised I recognized the buildings in the background as Edinburgh Castle and what looks like St Giles Cathedral, took me by surprise as I wasn't expecting to see some landmarks of my country in a Battletech video! 😂

[@BigRed40TECH]

That image is a cover of a Shrapnel Magazine iirc.

[@MrFleem]

Oh no! A Gargoyle! It's going to gargle at us!

[@da_BemBem]

Important points of comparison; The Timber Wolf has one more ton of armor, one less engine heatsink, and 8 less internal structure points, while also having 6 additional tons of pod space. The Gargoyle isn't *bad*, and with its limited tonnage it won't be able to get to some of the obscenities of Clan BV. It's just not a perfect machine.

[@ibysdagon4659]

You know, first battletech game was mw2 and little kid me saw this thing, got confused why it was there, and never looked at it again. So guessing average mech pilot experience when choosing a mech. That K though, that sounds legit scary.

[@RadarLuv100]

I feel like the Gargoyle and the Executioner only existed to fill weight class requirements for the lore.

[@BigRed40TECH]

The Executioner is at least interesting imo.

[@RadarLuv100]

@Big Red 40k mostly because that's what Vlad piloted during Phelans Trial of Position 😆 🤣 😂. I take your point though.

[@lexington476]

Aside from the prime configuration, all the other configurations are actually pretty good. The prime just doesn't have one hard-hitting weapon, it's just a whole bunch of pea shooters. Why that one is the prime configuration I have no idea, it should be like D or E.

[@BigRed40TECH]

I just think their jobs are always done better by other mechs, personally.

[@lexington476]

@@BigRed40TECH oh it was for sure.

[@kitirena_koneko]

If you redesigned the Gargoyle with four less double HS and used Endo Steel, increasing the armor by a ton or two and using the weight saved from switching internal structures, would you have a decent design? I may have to try out the Gargoyle II that way and see for myself...

[@BigRed40TECH]

Sure, but that just means take a Phoenix Hawk IIC lol

[@kitirena_koneko]

@@BigRed40TECH But then you lose the flexibility of using an OmniMech, quineg?

[@jong2359]

@@kitirena_koneko If a non-omni gives the same outcome, what was the point?

[@kitirena_koneko]

@@jong2359 Flexibility and ease of repair. Prior to battle, I can swap Omni weapons packages around to fit what my scouts report about battlefield conditions--for example, if I'm fighting in a hot desert, I can add additional heat sinks and swap out ammo-based weapons for energy-based to avoid ammo cookoffs. After battle, with Omni pods I can get my damaged Mechs up and running quickly in an extended campaign instead of having to fix the least-damaged first and hope for the best. Granted, in a one-off battle, it really doesn't matter, does it now?

[@hatework4282]

Even during The invasion era, I never cared for this mech. Your video was far better than the gargoyle deserves. Well done sir.

[@Jager1967]

To be perfectly honest, the Gargoyle looks like the bastard love child of a Warhammer and a Victor, and it was not a healthy relationship.

[@markray814]

I love the Gargoyle-A. I think it gets such a bad rap because of primary confit. Anemic was a great description. 80 tons is an in efficient weight class, so I think gargoyle (except P) is decent

[@BigRed40TECH]

I think the A is fine, but I'd rather just have a TimberWolf D.

[@mattbowden4996]

I would argue that - acknowledging the genuine limitations of the chassis - the real biggest problem with the Gargoyle is that the "showroom" Prime configuration is a weak anti-tank/aerospace specialist. Many of the alternate configurations - in particular the A, C and D - are legitimately formidable. That said, the design would be more forgivable if it used the tonnage saved by fitting Endo-steel to max the armour, even if it didn't have any additional pod space. As an aside, I really dislike that this is a Clan Wolf machine - it's absurd that they would produce it alongside the Timby and the Gargoyle would make far more sense as a rival Ghost Bear design. The Ghost Bears seem to really like fast assaults and most Gargoyle configurations are well set up to transport Elementals.

[@ero9841]

Agreed this mech screams ghost bear. This mech is excellent elemental carrier and does decent damage. Alot varients are cheaper than timber wolf.

[@BigRed40TECH]

But have you considered that the Gargoyle is winning?

[@ero9841]

@@BigRed40TECH winning? You mean like fight between timber wolf and gargoyle?

[@Szoki86]

There are few Clan Omnimechs with problems that cannot be solved by replacing all of their current weaponry by as many ER Medium Lasers and double heat sinks as possible. By doing so, you up Gargoyle's armor by 1,5 tons, mount 10 ERMLs and 10 DHSs, which means it can potentially deal 70 points of damage per turn while remaining completely heat neutral, even while running. And it's STILL cheaper in BV than the Mad Cat. To be fair, this is more about Clan ERMLs being broken as hell than the 'mech itself, but the point stands.

[@BigRed40TECH]

That's the most cynical way to play this game. lol

[@Szoki86]

​@@BigRed40TECH it sure is, which is also the reason why I mostly stick to canonical designs. It's way too easy to forget about the fun of doing your best with whatever flawed machines you have and just make fully optimized and stupidly OP mechs which all play and feel exactly the same.

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@Szoki86 Yea, we don't do custom mechs at my table.

[@bthsr7113]

How many matches have you last to medium laser vomit?

[@sebastiang.5032]

The one Mech I somehow always switch with the Executioner in my mind, lol.

[@YesNoMaybeOkSure]

I wouldn't compare this to the Charger - it's clearly more useful than that unit. The Gargoyle is more like a non-S Banshee - not useless but very inefficient due to a singular focus on above-average speed.

[@erupslayer]

I literally got this mech last night in rouge tech and built it like a charger….

[@lexington476]

25:48 Piece of Blake be with you Demi-precenter.

[@coulbauth]

Good vidoe, I remeber looking at the mech when the 3050 tech readout came out and thinking interesting and never went back to it. Now I am thinking if they had only used MASC and down rated the engine.

[@BigRed40TECH]

That's called a Woodsman then XD

[@michaelmorford3932]

Makes more sense to just go 75ton Charger

[@Bluehairedgirl89]

(Thank you for the effort you put into this video!) Wow, clanners being a bunch of arrogant weirdos who think they can technology their way out of a fundamental design flaw rather than just admiring it’s a bad idea. Color me shock!!! Insert sarcasm here. All that being said, I’d love to take a Man O War K out for a spin and test out it’s axe.

[@krieg4017]

Spurdo Spärde Mech!

[@TroySeward]

Great Mech video.

[@starsiegeplayer]

I really hate the prime configuration. It doesn't need those low heat, low damage weapons when the chassis has 16 double heat sinks. Just makes no sense. Granted that the concept is flawed from the start, but there is so much more you can do if they use those monster clan ppc like on the A configuration.

[@michaelbayliss4018]

Clan Wolf~ (howls)

[@luminouswolf7117]

I haven’t used this one before 🤔

[@CaptainRasmot]

Y'know, just the image of a Gargoyle-K jumping out from some trees and sprinting at an enemy mech with it's ask makes me ask a simple question. Why hasn't anyone made a variant with like two swords?? Like imagine strapping a sword on each arm and maybe hiding a SRM 6 underneath and just stabbing mechs while blasting them with an SRM 6 combo, and maybe putting in a bunch of clan ER Medium pulse lasers to the center.

[@bthsr7113]

I would love it. I think there are rules against that though. Otherwise this starts to get maybe a bit too IBO.

[@temp3608]

the problem with making these kinds of mechs is that you can literally achieve the same result with a heavy mech

[@bthsr7113]

The Manhattan Clan does not support this mech. At least not in prime configuration. Maybe if it had barrel fists (like the over maligned Stone Rhino), it could at least inherit the Charger's potential for crazy legends who decide to cave in enemy faces with Blunt Force Trauma (and for brush wars to stomp insurgents, skewer squishy infantry, ventilate VTOLs, and burn vehicles). At over 3 times the price. Without the zombie esque weapon distribution. With heavy ammo dependency and anemic ammo capacity. So even if you want a better charger, you can get 3 basic ones and upgrade them. Now the K... That could be the mech for a charger pilot who won the lottery to scratch the same itch but so much better.

[@FrostyThundertrod]

Question, The Gargoyle C you said it had 5 er medium lasers, but the text on screen sayes 5 er small lasers which one is correct? and can you add a annotation to clarify?

[@goliathxanatos706]

The ER Small Lasers are correct. He most likely misread his script.

[@BigRed40TECH]

The gargoyle C uses Medium Lasers.

[@solidshot7849]

Without knowing otherwise I thought the autocannons in the art were LBX-10s….i was sorely dissapointed

[@Ironhold_Watch]

An executioners dopey lil cousin

[@stormcrow28]

The Gargoyle is a decent design let down by several bad configurations. It does better mounting energy and missile weapon heavy configs then heavy ballistic weapons.

[@BigRed40TECH]

I just think it math's out bad. You're just better off with another mech in most situations. It's not bad, again, it's just... not as good as almost anything else you might've taken otherwise.

[@Wulfenbach]

All Hail Clan Wolf xD

[@Euphoria0011]

whats the music track used?

[@robrib2682]

... Did someone get drunk and try and make a Charger into a Warhammer thats 5 tons heavier?

[@BigRed40TECH]

10 tons heavier ;)

[@robrib2682]

@@BigRed40TECH oh, its even worse then. Also why is it that the only good mech that clan wolf seemed to invent is the madcat, or is it a case that you've jus not covered them yet?

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@robrib2682 There are other okay Clan Wolf Mechs out there.

[@krissteel4074]

Or someone decided to make a faster, high tech Awesome, but its 4x as expensive and most definitely, 'not awesome'

[@savage0987654321]

Charger isn't a scout Mech it a melee mech, which mean getting in your face fast

[@BigRed40TECH]

Clans don't start doing Melee until around the Dark Age :\

[@bthsr7113]

@@BigRed40TECH Which is to the substantial detriment of this machine. Even some barrel fists would help.

[@dwwolf4636]

Bestest build : Efficiency or bust. 2 x ER LL 8t 5x ER ML 5t 1x SPL. 1t Targetting computer. 3t Streak SRM4. 2t Ammo 1t AMS .5t Ammo 1t.

[@lukasz.adamski]

Well... Why use it when you can have something like Mad Cat? It's not that this mech is hopeless on it's own. Just other Clown mechs of the era are much better.

[@mathewkelly9968]

I dunno I find the energy versions of the Gargoyle are ok it's the ballistic/missile boats that are sub par ......... And I say that's because of the 16 heat sinks alot of the afore mentioned low heat configurations would be ok with a bit more ammo and an ER medium or medium pulse or two for good measure/variety

[@logan-9900]

The mech is fine why do people always judge omni mechs by prime variants? The whole point of being omni is running different loadouts

[@BigRed40TECH]

It's not just that. It's just, you're honestly better off taking almost anything else. I talk about its other variants. But the truth is, its an overweight heavy with less guns.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

Don’t tell him the snow ravens made a 2C Charger

[@BigRed40TECH]

I know about it. lol

[@tomtheconqerur]

The Virgin Man O War vs The Chad Atlas The Man O War Basically a more expensive charger a already infamous mech for being terrible in concept and practice. Has no hands for melee. Looks dumb. The Chad Atlas Far more cost effective as you can buy 2 Atlas for the price of the Man O War Great in concept and practice. Can be made even better with clan tech Has hands, a nightmare to fight against in melee no matter what mech you are in, and is strong enough to use light Mechs and so e medium mechs as clubs with no difficulty. Looks cool.

[@EinsteinTheGreen]

The Gargoyle / Man-O-War suffers from the same problem that a lot of 3050 mechs suffer from. The designs/configurations are just bad. You can put 3 clan large pulses and MASC on this thing as well as a decorative flamer. Suddenly you have the fire power of an Awesome, longer range, double the max speed, and pulse accuracy, with no heat issues all for about 29 points of armor.

[@justcraziii]

Harsh dude, lol, energy build outs are pretty great in MWO’s Gargoyle

[@BigRed40TECH]

MWO isn't really reflective of how things end up on the tabletop to be fair. :)

[@CMDRFandragon]

Are large lasers just like trash in lore? The woodsman doesnt look like its that out gunned. It has 2 LL, 3 ML, 2 LRM15s....

[@johnarnold8485]

Man, I love the gun arms but frankly it's even a little dull of a design. I've forgiven a lot of bad designs because they look rad as hell or even were just funny (nova cat and urbanmech respectively for example) but this is a disappointing mech that also happens to just be... fine?

[@rho1581]

Look Clan Charger

[@dwwolf4636]

It's a hilariously bad design. Optimized: FF> EndoSteel chassis + 2.5 tons armor. -2 DHS. Equals plus 3.5 tons of Pod space while increasing armor protection by 5 points. Alternatively decrease it by 3 points by only using 13 tons of Standard armor and you have 4 tons of extra pod space. Yeah, You lose a few internal engine DHS...but seriously, the Gargoyle doesn't have enough pod space to fill all the internals anyway.

[@tenchraven]

This is what happens when an Atlas and a Charger are cooped up in the same dropship for too long.

[@pf6797]

The At-Large! Hahaha

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

No a banshee and a charger

[@bthsr7113]

Or this what happens when a charger raises the mix of Rifleman and Commando.

[@tenchraven]

@@UniversalChallenge4454 The face is more Atlas than Banshee.

[@ryanjones6384]

Gargoyle: When you apply the full range of clan tech to a Charger... and you're still a meme.

[@warlok363]

The Charger C exists

[@Alex-pj8nz]

@@warlok363 Yup and the snow ravens really hate it a lot that they actually allow sales of it to mercs.

[@MajorTymojo]

On one hand it definitely has its limitations compared to other clan mechs, even heavies as you've said. On the other hand, I can understand the first contacts it had against IS forces causing them to label it as one of the most dangerous, because I would freak out if an assault mech was running at me going the speed of a medium mech (I mean, a timberwolf is only 5 tons lighter, but your displays and battle-book are telling you this thing is an assault mech! An assault mech rocketing towards you!) , and with clan firepower you probably aren't objectively comparing it to other clan mechs as its tearing your fleeing company apart. That's just the first few contacts though, its a little surprising if it kept that same rep long term.

[@Firestorm2900]

It could be that its limitations weren't noticed since they might not have encountered it enough to know the reality from the hearsay.

[@victor227]

Tough to say anything about the Gargoyle that you didn't. Putting 400-rated engines in 80 ton Assault Mechs is always going to be a dicey proposition based on just how expensive they are. Clan society might get paid in honor, but they're still beholden to resources and economic value. The lack of Endo-Steel in the Gargoyle, despite ample engine heat sink room, is a terrible cost compromise that really sinks it compared to Clan heavies that can pull off half their weight in free tonnage for weapons. The K variant of the Gargoyle really is an excellent monster though. It's something so un-Clan-like that I don't think anyone would ever expect to have to deal with it in a fight with them. In every other variant, the focus on it being really fast and armored is undermined by how easy it is to disarm by taking out the less-protected arms. The roided out Phoenix Hawk IIC really is the superior mech, taking the Gargoyle's role and adding jumping on top.

[@alexmccutcheon10]

I kinda like the videos on bad mech; they’re really interesting and fun to learn about, if for no other reason than laughing at bad designs, but also for inspiration for projects or ideas for how to improve them

[@Bustermachine]

Bad mechs are honestly much more interesting than reading about nothing but great mech designs. They both require, and have more space, for creativity.

[@usiak13]

If you like videos on bad mechs, I recommend Charger video from Tex of Black pant legion...

[@boxfoxscoot1614]

"You can choose to win" yeah kinda sums up clan wolf

[@dguy6798]

Ahh... the Gargoyle, the Salieri to the Timber Wolf's Mozart. I will admit even I personally enjoy this mech, since even if I lose the arms I still go all Monty Python's Black Knight on my opponents. No arms left? Just a flesh wound!

[@bthsr7113]

But.... that's most or all of you firepower!

[@ianjankus8090]

Cant wait to see you cover the Lamborghini of Battletech, my beloved Timberwolf. Always great content!

[@bthsr7113]

A fine machine that I'll take over the Thor any day. Not just because the corroded copper cockatoo is a jerk, but because the Timber Wolf has generally preferable configurations, especially when comparing Primes.

[@zorhamorningstar3862]

"Big Guns never Tire" Its good to hear Fritz philosophy on different channels.

[@johnhaynes9442]

So the only positives I have for the garg, which I use a lot. Its a solid objective holder that can deliver elementals. And it can support those elementals, the prime that is, with a lot of anti infantry weapon systems that can also deal with vtols that might be acting in rapid reaction. The prime to my mind is a fast elemental support mech. Interestingly it's a perfect mech for a snow raven r-star, although without hands it needs tow cables or nets. A lot of the lighter taxis can't stop moving or they get hit. A dasher is a better taxi, but it can't hold an objective for long. It's also a great IS taxi during the civil war. On the game side of things, it's a great mech because of the pv in alpha strike,its great for 'I want big and heavy' for low pv games where you are using skill 3 clan pilots. Ultimately its not great, but it has niche uses.

[@ESC_907]

I love running the Delta as a MiPL-boat in MWO. The “Roadrunner” horn is much too appropriate.

[@Stormeris]

Never been a fan of the gargamel, but the hatchet variant is intriguing

[@Gigas0101]

I like to imagine some alternate timeline where this thing didn't suffer from its flaws and we got a Gargoyle line comparable to the Timberwolf, rather than it being the clan Charger. I love the look of the thing but it's just a tragedy.

[@Kpiozero]

I'm starting to believe that Clan Hells Horses is maybe 1 or 2 competent leaders and a retooling of industry to be really dangerous. Then again, they also seem to have doctrines that involve them getting kicked in the head by a horse. Who's to say.

[@joshuamidgette4846]

I would take a Battlemaster over the Gargoyle, a bit slower but far more weapons and far harder to literally disarm.

[@davidtryon6157]

Ah, yes...the Clan's non main character mech...piloted by all the nobodies that have to fill up a star...

[@cobalt968]

Though modded Mechwarrior 5 isn’t a direct translation of the tabletop game, I can indeed confirm that an 80-ton mech with a hatchet can wreck a lot of faces (ofttimes literally) in a massive battlefield. I can see why the Gargoyle K is a rightly feared configuration.

[@andyeaton1736]

It’s like an inverse Urbanmech. Cheep on BV but expensive as hell in C-bills. The Prime configuration always baffled me, why mount all these low heat weapons on a mech with 16 heat sinks? There’s running cold and then there’s the Gargoyle Prime.

[@fatboy7609]

Yeah the Man O War mounts less pod space, a full ton less armor, while costing costs 4 million C-Bills more the already horrendously expensive Mad Cat in pursuit of maintaining a 5/8 tempo... but drawing parallels to that 4 hour monstrosity of a movie is just being mean.

[@panoramatint]

That Clan Wolf "quote" made me think of Ricky Bobby in Taladega Nights "I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence, and there's nobody who can hang with my stuff."

[@BigRed40TECH]

There will be more quotes that I deliver, the more of that clan I am forced to talk about. XD

[@Dracobyte]

Gargoyle Battlemech: Because Clans can meme too!

[@Timberjac]

The Gargoile is a machine difficult to find an accommodation for. Honestly, the best version I've made of it for board and MWo was one with 8 heavy medium lasers and 27 double radiators, the generous 10 + 6 that carries in the reactor plus 11 distributed by the mech, and all armor.

[@TimberWulfIsHere]

"double radiators" Ive seen it all folks.

[@Timberjac]

@@TimberWulfIsHere Sorry, I know the correct word is Heatsink, but I lost the translation in my mind when thinking about the answer in Spanish. Both in Spanish and of course in the first translation of battletech, HeatSink is translated as "radiador", a word that means in Spanish, both the element to cool a vehicle and the heater that generates heat in Spanish. And just for a moment, I forgot that in English I should use the right word, heatsink. Again sorry.

[@g.d.graham2446]

Ngl, this mech can be very meme-y in MWO though (I'm talking 15 heavy small lazers kind of memes xD)

[@lexington476]

See I called it, the Man O' War was coming up, Jedi mind powers still working strong 🙂.

[@lexington476]

30:08 once you're done with the OmnimrchsI hope you do the inner sphere refits and Clan second lines mechs. I would love to see your take on the Phoenix Hawk IIC and shadowhawk IIC.

[@BigRed40TECH]

3055 is coming after 3050.

[@lexington476]

@@BigRed40TECH what other new mechs would you be doing in 3050, aside from the Clans? most of the inner spheres are just upgrades of existing designs you already did.

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@lexington476 I did most of the 3050 mechs already iirc.

[@lexington476]

@@BigRed40TECH you did. So just the OG omins left in 3050?

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@lexington476 yes

[@lexington476]

31:45 plastic ha, I have the OG pewter Gargoyle from the early 90s... 😎. Along with all the other pewter omnimechs sets that came out at that time 😎.

[@Gladius-XC]

The old artwork for the Gargoyle was so bad that I didn’t care about how bad the mech was. Now, the new art looks amazing and so I want the mech to be good too!

[@omegavulture8379]

Garg is in a bad spot: too bad to see actual play and just a touch too good to see meme play. Love the desing though.

[@Ironknuckle100]

It’s a walking pepper mill.

[@sardaukerlegion]

Hated this one in MWO. The 5 ton smaller Mad Cat is better in everything.

[@RyeFields]

Don't have to rebuild the mech if you're #winning so much now, do you?

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

Even if it gets literally disarmed, I still like the thing because it's an Assault that moves faster that 64 KM/H. If it had jump jets, this thing could have been a little bit better for a few moments.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Just get a Phoenix Hawk IIC. lol

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

@@BigRed40TECH Fair enough, at least the PHIIC is a lot more survivable.

[@BigRed40TECH]

@@enricopaolocoronado2511 More gunned, more mobile... more survivable. lol

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

@@BigRed40TECH True. It honestly surprises me that none of the Clans just made an OmniMech version of the PHIIC and called it a day.

[@paladinslash4721]

I like the K, it’s like what the Charger should’ve been.

[@bthsr7113]

More like it's what the Charger couldn't be, but wanted to. And it looks like fun.

[@lukedudley5030]

Another great overview :-) now I understand why my clan opponents have never picked this mech lol...never fought against it usually my opponents go for the heavies over the assaults to be fair :-)