Baudrillard, The Matrix and The Hyperreal

[@jdzentrist8711]

Thank you for this reference to "Cratylus," which I've not read yet. And for this insight about what philosophy has been doing from the beginning. Just to my right here, on the screen, is another video of interest--"Jean Baudrillard: The System of Objects." There are many such videos and not enough time!

[@clumsydad7158]

wow, this was a deep and complicated journey in just 16 minutes ... meandering into many areas, much to speculate on, to know, to ponder ... and yes the platonic cave, shadow/form analogy is complex, and seems like could have various interpretations/understandings ... but baudrillard's critique of the matrix seems correct, that the power of simulation is the illusion/confusion, or in our social media modernity we are lost in trying to know what's true vs. untrue, and in staring into digital we are drawn away from the physical and visceral and somatic and all they have to instinctually teach us of ourselves and life ... much to ponder, many horizons yet to encounter, ty

[@Lin-Tsi]

Great video, great editing. Thank you!

[@jdzentrist8711]

"The uncut Transparency...in this cut from Negativity..." Just trying to come to terms here. I've not read Baudrillard. But this discussion of Plato (as different from Platonism) I surely relate to...Your thoughts on the meaning of "The Cave" are VERY interesting. I read about "The Cave" in Bloom's translation, in 1974. Of course, I need to reread it more carefully! That said, I did not stop thinking all that time. I'm aware that there is a kind of ideological divide, between those who feel that Socrates was guilty, and those who feel that Socrates was a martyr for THE GOOD.

[@jdzentrist8711]

It was a high-school-educated co-worker, an Hispanic man my age, a fellow security guard eking out a living, who introduced me to "The Matrix" and Baudrillard. I've yet to see this movie. And yet, I think "I've seen this movie before." None the less, I had to stop the tape again in order to pick myself up off the floor, after hearing the words spoken here about language. And about the 20th Century, "not wanting to die." And about whether language is just a reference to more and more "language," but nothing else. I do not know how to use the DVR player my ex left me--she always did the technology. And my "satellite TV," the DISH, does not offer "The Matrix." It constantly repeats movies like "Top Gun" and "The Day After Tomorrow." Would that we lived in the days of "Blockbuster," when you could just go to the "Blockbuster," rent the movie, bring it home, and put it into the TV, which already had a slot for it.

[@jdzentrist8711]

"We cannot capture, The Whole...and this is the weakness of the Matrix, of dissimulation." Plato's great American translator, Bloom, in a You Tube video (with Gadamer and Voegelin), in his introductory remarks, talks about our time, our "radical historicism," with its emphasis upon "perspective" and, I guess, "moral relativism." I actually had a forty-five minute conversation w/ Gadamer, during a break from his talks at our university, in 1977. In 1979 (or so) Bloom bragged that he and Gadamer were at times "on the road together." (Gadamer is sitting right next to him.) But in this setting, Bloom repeatedly references "Plato's teaching" about the standard of reality and truth that is the sunlight "outside the cave." He knew better than that. He must have known better than that. But his poltics and his belief in the "noble lie" for political purposes...his "narrative" and leitmotif of a Socrates "guilty as charged" ruled the day. Anyway, I did read "Truth and Method" and to this day come away with the impression that this great "student of Heidegger" (and he spoke of him with some reverence) believed fully in neither relativism or absolutism, but in the Golden Mean, in Moderation, presumably as Hegel believed, and as another founder of a "school," Leo Strauss.

[@clumsydad7158]

interesting, wow, what an experience ... i have the opinion i dislike Bloom, and i'm largely uninformed yet of Gadamer ... yes i suppose there is much pretense and illusion in 20th century french philosophy, deconstructivists and all, yet much insight as well ... time will likely reveal the balance of which

[@jdzentrist8711]

"we break the seemingly absolute power of language..." Is this the door to the Hyperreal? To the "uncut Transparency" mentioned? Baudrillard is not promoting total meaninglessness. He must have a Standard. Today, some "giants" of philosophy say that "life is meaningless, but amazing." I really need to see this movie, "The Matrix." I may have to break down and order it, if it is in the catalogue.

[@jdzentrist8711]

"They are not as radical and avant garde as " they would have us believe. In fact, they are somewhat ridiculous. Indeed this also strikes me as quite brilliant and true. They are the modern-day sophists, or maybe that is to give them too much credit. Some of them, supposedly, like Derrida, were influenced by Heidegger. But did he REALLY influence them? To return....

[@jdzentrist8711]

Language that is not absolutelty perfect, where we can HEAR more TRUTH. Just a little footnote here: Tolstoy's great biographer, Troyat, says that his language is/was notoriously imperfect, "ungrammatical" !!! In reading his stories and his great novels, I did not notice this! But of course these were translations, "beautiful" translations.

[@clumsydad7158]

i'm captured by the idea that humans are relatively new to language, and like most animals, are thoughts are pre-language, and we are yet confused (though aware) of this distinction and it's limitations. but yes, language highly limited, as a wittgenstein pointed out, only meaningful/sensible within some groups/communities/cultures that understand all the 'unspoken' nuances/referents/conditionalities of it ... etc. etc. etc. !!! but not only that, language itself is fairly uninvolved, a sloppiness to it (maybe for good and bad, probably) and limited lexicons for our burgeoning information and epistemological relationships

[@jdzentrist8711]

"The system, the virtual, the Matrix..." Headed for "the dustbin of history." I think I am following you thus far. But the title says something about The Hyperreal. Now I'm not sure what this could refer to. To return...

[@clumsydad7158]

the hyperreal is the simulation, but it's reality in an exaggerated sense, like cartoon or a movie that shows reality as perfect and beautiful ... think of an advertisement for a brand new commodity, trying to pretend it's perfect. i think this gets towards the idea.

[@jdzentrist8711]

"Paranoiac monotheism, which is at the core of all of this..." Here, with the word "paranoid," and with the word, "monotheism," one thinks of the Russian philosopher, or is he merely sophistic, Dugin. Dugin has been banned from Amazon. I don't know if I would buy his books anyway. I am a Romantic, but I am not THAT Romantic. In a failed dissertation I concluded, among other things, that "postmodernism," a la Derrida and I guess other of these "avant garde" French writers...conveyed a kind of "silver lining." Such nihilism lands a body in real negativity, as in "negative theology" or "apophatic theology"...Here Plato''s Seventh Letter comes to mind, the place where he puts into words his famous (at our university) "weakness of speech."

[@animefurry3508]

The Revenge of the (Lacanian) Real?! ... I agree with baudrillard that we can't tell the difference between simulation and real, but i would take it futher and say that this is not new but has always been so, we have always been post human as one would call it. And two that there is no access to the real without first going thought the simulation. To think the real preseeded the simulation is false, the simulation posits the real retro actively. The real is not the opposite of the simulation/appearance but the very maker of the real. There was no kingdom till we had a map of it. The vail hides nothing, for the vail is the thing itself. Plato let me back into the cave to study the shadows! Lol

[@JohannesNiederhauser]

Join the course next weekend

[@animefurry3508]

@@JohannesNiederhauser Gladly thank you, but sleep first, I've been up all night at work! Good work! Good luck!