BBC Order And Disorder Episode 2 - Information

Many thanks to Professor Jim Al-Khalili.

[@Rev0ltTTV]

Love these documentaries I've watched them several times over and over and I get a deeper understanding each time.

[@aifan6148]

"...just by using information, you could create order": powerful statement!

[@1816m]

One of the best documentaries ever!

[@ElectroNeuron]

There is so much that's great in this documentary but OMW the script is just incredible.

[@makucevich]

A fine presentation, but there is a glaring omission. Charles Babbage invented several programmable mechanical calculating machines in the 19th century. And his assistant Ada Lovelace was the first programmer.

[@zeebay003]

This is Gold. we need more documentaries like this

[@atlormerjo8830]

I played this video for at the very least 200 times Never seen it right through because I keep falling asleep

[@whoknowsknight9628]

Atlor Merjo funny. I actually like to put a jim al khalil video to go asleep. And it is not the first time I see such a comment. I like the atom series : )

[@jont9607]

ya its the best for that ya?/

[@goonmcgoon7236]

Haha I have fallen asleep a few times watching this guy. Nearly did watching this

[@Alaquand]

Hahaha same

[@ransomware7964]

Amazing documentary!

[@tvittori]

Excellent docco I enjoyed that.

[@dmswanson5694]

Exquisite, comprehensive, excellent visuals, music, and camera/cut, very well presented; an actual, practical, instructive presentation of what information actually is. Well done.

[@michaelawford7325]

Yes except the annoying distracting overlaid sounds track, it’s not music, it’s sound effects. I saw this programme in its original showing and no sounds effects. Spark seem to like doing this when they acquire rights. Can they remove the track.?

[@antoniomaglione4101]

Congratulations Prof. Al-Khalili for all your efforts, it is really appreciated. Pity not available on iPlayer though...

[@52Royston]

Fairground organs also use punched cards, to produce music. What is interesting is that the punched cards also program the machine as to which particular ‘instrument’ plays the music; repeating the same piece over and over again with a different sound each time.

[@kuujjuaq10]

+Ali Veli: The opening tune which sounds similar is by Alex Menzies. So might be same.

[@sator666666]

Great music!

[@SabreenSyeed]

Wow! what Professor Jim said at 49:49 is actually what the knowledgeable mystic Khidr says to Moses. "The knowledge that u and I have is not even a drop in the ocean as compared to the knowledge of the Absolute Consciousness!"

[@petarradev4298]

This video is profound :)

[@blackdog9770]

Jim's best documentaries were produced by Nic Stacey. His programmes Everything and Nothing are also top notch.

[@neobourgeoischristum5540]

---- The Durable Universe ----- No such thing as circumstances No breaks in time only one event No dents in the universe Light can't be broken Consciousness can't be bent

[@newENIO11]

my go to video when i can't sleep.

[@kuujjuaq10]

+ali veli: not sure about the music. will try and find out.

[@billy-joes6851]

The size of the dumps I take make me question everything I've learnt in this doc.

[@jont9607]

ok, lets see sum pics ya?

[@Alaquand]

Show and tell

[@kuujjuaq10]

Thanks, Ali.

[@bingeltube]

Very recommendable

[@matthiasaldorf5701]

The soundtrack is pretty cool. Does anybody have an idea what some of the songs are?

[@matthiasaldorf5701]

Thank you very much! :)

[@haddoxguitars9158]

yep! Share what knowledge you have and the bad things in life will dissolve, life will become free again.

[@khalabhoseah3846]

?

[@hohlwelt]

Is there a list of the titles? I'm especially curious about the two at the beginning. Cheers

[@josephinewhite6224]

Interesting and well presented. Just think of how much greater than man in magnitude, is the Mind that created it.

[@rcs300]

29:00 (25:22 if you didnt see the deamon part yet) - If you build a machine that can mimic the actions of the daemon, that machine will be using energy so that is not ONLY information. Furthermore our body's are basically biochemical machines, we run off of biochemical energy, our brains use that energy to pass electrical charges around in there to formulate ideas and other information so even if there was a daemon who could do that he would not be ONLY using information, he will use energy to formulate that information then use the information and more energy to react to let the right particles in. Just my thoughts on that.

[@rcs300]

never mind lol they just added what i mentioned above, around 53:

[@glutinousmaximus]

Nice post. I live in France and I have a large woven silk picture by Jacquard from the late 18th century/ early 19th. It is very beautiful, if a little faded now. You don't see such work anymore (unless you have a great deal of money!)

[@glutinousmaximus]

Hello Scott. It's from the Romantic period - size 97 X 200 cm. (1 metre by 2 metres) Two shepherds in the right foreground, 2 sheep and a small dog. A lake and two small waterfalls midgound (one with 2 cupids) and old stately home on the background. I don't actually have a photograph at the moment, but I suppose I could arrange to have one taken. There is another slightly smaller tapestry designed to slide along a pole 160 X 90 cm.

[@glutinousmaximus]

PS. I have several pastels by Belohorksy also - girls portraits and some other ephemera.

[@glutinousmaximus]

PPS (!) A friend dropped by and took a pic on his phone. He's going to e-mail it back to me. I don't know the resolution yet; but not an easy pic to get given It's size. If you are serious, we need to work out some better contact! Cheers.

[@glutinousmaximus]

I live in rural SW France. I'm quite IT fluent; but I choose not to use mobile phones or have TV (especially _NOT_ French TV - It's awful!) I have (temporarily at least) subscribed to your channel, but you have not included a discussion page: otherwise it might have been useful for this sort of thing. *_:0)_*

[@jont9607]

how come all French cars have 3 reverse gears and only 1 forward gear??

[@terencemagee]

Why that London pic of King´s Reach Tower and London Weekend building at 28.43? What´s the meaning behind it, the connection?

[@mikestirewalt5193]

Words are sounds and the far more interesting and mysterious question is where did words come from? And when? .

[@Eaglepass]

How does one reconstruction a 7yr-plus-planet-earth community commet in an episode. It's like finding an awesome old texed-book inside the never ending story.

[@JasonJason210]

I usually fall asleep to these but this one kept startling me into wakefulness. It's 4.30 am and my mind is still boggling. I mean what if the demon just looked at the speed of an approaching particle? It would not need to keep account of all of them, surely. This was too much. And that demon was weird.

[@AliVeli-gr4fb]

Does anybody know the music around 56:00

[@sergiyshutyayev5436]

kathexis.bandcamp.com/album/order-disorder

[@tima1824]

@@sergiyshutyayev5436 thak you a lot!

[@shekharpaul966]

does anti-matter can be formulated as information by shanon's "principals of mathematical theory of communication"..or else it needs a separate anti demon to observe?

[@djayjp]

Information isn't that which is "unexpected", but rather a physical change (of the state of a system).

[@abstractapproach634]

yeah it's wierd, action at a distance changes the "state" of a system, but you can't send information faster than c so I think your definition is lacking something. But I don't have the information to tell you what it is

[@abstractapproach634]

maybe a physical change in the reciever that can be related to the sender in some deterministic way....still probably no good but might explain the "speed of dark" and "action at a distance"

[@brajabasisahu5281]

Correct.

[@sedevacantist1]

I salute your attempt at understanding the meaning of information. Jim Al-Khalili may truly be confused or purposefully disingenuous. The reason why he would be dishonest is because of his world-view of materialism. Mr. Al-Khalili defines information correctly some of the time and incorrectly at other times. I see his error reflected in your post “physical change (of the state of a system).” Allow me to clearly explain his and your misinterpretation of information. Mr. Al-Khalili with an eye dropper and slow motion observes the fluid dynamics that a drop of water makes when dropped from several inches into a bowl of water. Mr. Al-Khalili describes this as representing a large amount of information when in fact there is no information present at all. Information is not material; matter or energy. If the actual event were described through Information it would be an abstract substitutional representation of the event. The event was what it was and is only capable of representing itself as itself. To be clear, one cannot claim that everything in the universe is information, which would correspond to the world-view of materialism in so much that it incorporates information as all actual events in time and not just a description of an event or an understanding of the events abstractly, which requires an intelligent mind. This truth has wider reaching implications which are destroyed by purposefully misdefining information to promote a world view.

[@brajabasisahu5281]

It is much more difficult to answer the question --" What is Information ? " --then answer the question -" Does God exist ? .To the second question -there are two answers--(1)Yes (2)No .Then comes a third answer --God sometimes appear to Exist and sometimes appears Not to exist...Then more and more answers are found by permutation and combination of these three answers--like creating longer and longer Binary Numbers...But to the first question ,there are No Two Answers.. So you have to start with some answer and continue the discussion....Some explanation is better than No explanation.

[@stevesloan6775]

"Could this theoretical 1D concept be the truth behind everything" Mathematics runs deep. : )

[@generaldilvry69]

@54:00 - okay but what absolutely infinite memory medium environments, such as the one created by quantum computing?

[@schmetterling4477]

Quantum computers can't store infinite information. That's one of the many misunderstandings about them.

[@nancyhope2205]

The Demon has to expend energy to open and close the partition....

[@chewyjello1]

Right. I didn't get that thought experiment at all. Pretty sure magic demons who can open and close doors using no energy do not exist.

[@FonsecaStatter]

What about Ada Lovelace?... And Charles Babbage?...

[@darrenlovelace3d]

ya

[@edgeeffect]

Well, not really.. this is the story of the science of information not the history of the development of the digital computer.

[@mollystreames7369]

Didn't see u when I put ada above :)

[@edgeeffect]

except this is a history of information theory not a history of computers.

[@symmetrie_bruch]

what about konrad zuse ?

[@delilithkerk1130]

25:00 + is that demon......."playing with" himself??!

[@planpitz4190]

To all that think a human mind is needed to store data and hence produce information : Did nature need a human mind when storing data in the DNA?

[@qualquan]

Info = order Faster (hotter) or slower (colder) than average particle has more info. Average particle has less. Or non uniformity = info. Uniformity = no info. Bits (yes or no) are unitary symbols.

[@Alwaleed7610]

Can´t the demon example be explained by simply stating that the very act of computation taking place (Sensing the velocity and trajectory of each particle, processing this visual information and then computing the exact time when the slot should be opened) requires the expenditure of energy in any case? Why would the 'deletion' of memory be the only process that expends energy?

[@JasonJason210]

Alwaleed7610 Precisely. The demon doesn't need a big memory.

[@johnhepp]

I had another question about that demon problem... what about the energy used to open and close the partition?

[@Alwaleed7610]

Good point.

[@mickelodiansurname9578]

Lazer Liteshow you have to assume there's no energy involved in that. The thought experiment has been modified over time to account for culture and advances in technology. So let's say the barrier was an electromagnetic field and on one side only fast moving particles could penetrate it and on the other side fast moving particles were repelled. Lets also assume the field itself made up less than 0.00001% of the energy in the entire system... or some other tiny amount... now you don't need doorways OR a demon... but the logic still holds. The problem is obviously that for one thing even if it worked then the separation of hot to cold areas would still take time. Secondly the time taken is related to the speed of the fast particles and the slow ones... the slow ones will obviously take longer to move to the SLOW box... At some point in time you will have one box with zero fast moving particles which has not yet captured all the slow ones... they are still in the box with the fast ones... But the memory or 'information' barrier still cannot be overcome. Eventually the system will need to make room for memory of events and if you delete the existing information it uses up energy from the system by putting the particles back where they were. In current computer science one way of minimising this effect is the use of memristors as opposed to transistors in integrated circuits... but even so the information barrier will catch up... eventually. So you can make the system efficient.... but even at 100% efficiency you cannot get all of the fast and all of the slow particles into the boxes without the system needing to delete. Its a pity Maxwell was dealt the 19th century.... he'd have had a real ball in the mid 20th century.

[@adamrspears1981]

Alwaleed7610 Because the Entropy of that system continues to increase. There are too many particles for the demon to know each one's position & vibration. Entropy is hidden information.

[@Odisej1]

is there episode 3?

[@hal9000xxl]

I don't get demon concept at all. I guess if he is demon he can open door and close them with out using energy to begin with lol. Also that barrier that traps molecules on one side has to stop slow molecules in some way. Of course that would be molecules hit barrier and thus they would transfer some energy to that barrier. Barrier it self would hit up eventually and radiate that heat into space thus increase entropy. And what kind of screen would that filter have to be anyways? It has to be material and I am not aware of any material or space condition including vacuum that stops energy from expending and increase entropy. If you manage to hit up one side of cube, well that heat would use that barrier to transfer it self to the other side with out even opening some door or not.

[@terencemagee]

And again at 57.25. What´s going on there?

[@bluebird2724]

can anyone help me im looking for a Jim Al-Khalili documentray on paradoxes can anyone please help i cant find it agian

[@pertevdural4513]

maxwell demon using energy to open/close the door for particles.

[@pertevdural4513]

4 temmuz 2023

[@dannykrinkle4726]

Why do so many British narrators sound like Elmer Fudd?

[@eldonjanzen9822]

And yet the DNA molecule incoded is extremely more complex and some say "it was all random". What!!? That is obviously wrong!

[@janoswerner2800]

Is a picture writing more than a world or even world's

[@andrefouche1958]

The noise associated with events masks a great presenter’s voice to the point of inaudability. A real pity.

[@user-lq9oi5jq3n]

Ok.

[@zdenekbina6044]

Great documentary. But the deamon uses more than just sight. He uses the energy to open and close the gate. The approximation is not accurate.

[@evfich]

this guy is a genius. he's awesome.

[@jont9607]

can only imagine wen the demon gets his release...

[@xyzllii]

Why is there no mention of Ada Lovelace? Also...though the Prof. is good, I wish he would not keep using the word incredible....when he means ...credible.

[@mickelodiansurname9578]

xyzllii Would you believe most of the evidence now points to Lovelace being more of an advisor and having nothing to do with the programming of the difference engine. It never got off the ground anyway and if it did and she had lived maybe thing would be different. But as it turns out most of the actual work in terms of instructions was done by Babbage himself and sent to her in many cases years after he produced it himself. So Lovelace probably would have been the worlds first programmer... if she was given the opportunity. But that was not the case.. unfortunately.

[@xyzllii]

Would I believe this? I would need proof...ie sources of this info etc. Who has declared this...and based on what new evidence?

[@Rico-Suave_]

Watched all of it 58:47

[@ronaypronayp]

No! The first ORDER FORMULATED in humanities consciousness is SEPARATING of surrounding objects and identification that ones.

[@martarivera7893]

55:32 .............

[@sergiyshutyayev5436]

kathexis.bandcamp.com/track/disorder-7-piano-1

[@janoswerner2800]

Concesness thought thoughts process....

[@djayjp]

Doesn't give enough credit to Babbage.

[@edgeeffect]

Well, not really.. this is the story of the science of information not the history of the development of the digital computer.

[@tvittori]

Or George Boole.

[@billy-joes6851]

djayjp or Bowie

[@spc67h]

Doesn't mention the programmable mechanical calculator at all, only its predecessor (the Jacquard loom)

[@spc67h]

Konrad Zuse?

[@janoswerner2800]

By showing and drawing Human understand everything Aculy and if some have say pozitive thoughts process will have passion to understand all. , Every each Human body have enough elements to understand perfectly life , life isn't money's only elements , this is a reason why yous all die early

[@chrisftw92]

L n utility

[@ElusiveCube]

They say that the Danube valley writing is way older than Sumerian, only time will tell.

[@siberrr428]

ადდენ დეიტჰ

[@gogggler]

Like your informative videos but those weird sounds are grating my brain

[@grahammiller5812]

irving looks like ray finkels grandpa

[@JT-zt7uq]

5:56 that was like a bad British knock-knock joke.

[@metrologe]

fascinating intonation, but unfortunately always as with materialists, they simplify into distraction and present like a final truth "everything in the universe could be coded (onto punchcards)" - but no! the essence of a flower is not its picture, not even its smell, a.s.o.. Leaves the listeners in the materialistic scientific comfort zone (corner for utilarism). But: Meaning, life, conciousness - we have no idea how these truely combine with (Shannons) information concept ...this just to disturb the too much sure a little.

[@hanspeter-lv2cs]

Bitte in deutsch.... bitte

[@janoswerner2800]

The wrong developed world's with fulish thoughts....

[@janoswerner2800]

Some pictures about constantly systems what yous never will understand coz to much useless Humans pleasure thoughts.....

[@chaitanyaparmar7327]

background music is so disturbing.

[@MrSvenovitch]

and annoying

[@JasonJason210]

chaitanya parmar May be that's why I couldn't sleep.

[@adamrspears1981]

Don't slander the music. Its great. Its me as accoustic energy. You owe me an apology, & I would like my apology, now please & thank you!

[@janoswerner2800]

More analysis not ide

[@Attila000The0Hun]

Binary code into machine is translated by A German engineer who has given rights to replicate the original one: Conrad Zuse earlier than WW2. Hence, I disagree At&T labs usage for binary code...Simply, everything from 16th century is coming from Germans, English, French,Dutch etc but mostly Germans.... How succesful they are? The race; education; culture or something in geography? Turks has their own culture with respectful to women, but it is changed after religious convert! Then, they captured to ignorant philosophy! How can we go further in this swamp? Hope to change by another Increfible Turk: Ataturk.

[@billy-joes6851]

This is fake news !! our planet is a pancake I call it pancake earth theory.

[@billy-joes6851]

Yahweh likes pancakes, he makes pancakes not planets .

[@billy-joes6851]

lone wrecche "pizza is a pie not a cake" fuck you , challenge accepted!!

[@knicklas48]

Information is a human concept it didn't exist until we created it.

[@adamrspears1981]

knicklas48 Completely untrue! Animals realize information in order to thrive. Plants, for example will increase or decrease the number of stomata on the underside of their leaves in response to how much oxygen is or isn't present in Earth's atmosphere. Even plants perceive information. Viruses thrive by retrieving information by their host's DNA. Information & realizing it is definitely not a fabrication of thr Human mind.

[@djayjp]

It doesn't really explain anything at all.

[@EarlLedden]

Maybe that trillion trillionth of a gram of sugar energy just isn't kicking in for you! Even do. you've got to admit it's interesting.

[@buxk9378]

I love his docs, but the constant addition of atonal noises, is annoying

[@patrickbond5348]

Anyone here from chemistry a level from Stoke college?

[@svampebob007]

no but I'm sitting right next to the man who once passed by to the South of one of my aunts paths that takes her slightly east of her usual east/west path towards a place that is just a stone throw away from my neighbors window on the 5th street, not the 7ths like you're used to anyone else from here? Oh wait never mind I was sitting next to a mirror, never mind so I'm basically siting in my living room that is facing my neighbors house.

[@janoswerner2800]

Yous maybe better to not taking and writing

[@drmilimiliy9343]

Why do these presenters have to be so dramatic and self obsessed? Does anyone notice how condescending these people are?

[@Eaglepass]

Time demon is Kelvins captured Celsius at database Columnars ecosystem a cryogenic performance management. Knocking-off a ⚅♡lonely hearts club dj.exit Or editing.atoms Radical change has infinite band ⚛ values. he's reminds me a bit of a bite-sized bouncer-type after the midnight hourglass-concert doomsday got tenets a touret is more of Elvis Presley leg tic.