Children on puberty blockers saw mental health change, new analysis suggests - BBC Newsnight

[@sheyshah2848]

“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” - A. Einstein

[@r8chlletters]

Or interfere with your natural development.

[@hermanjohnson9180]

So it would seem. And things have changed much since the time of Einstein. A new world and a new set of issues.

[@HyperFocusMarshmallow]

This quote is in reference to something completely different as you’re hopefully well aware.

[@Corey_Otis]

✊🏼. I hear you!!

[@glucosepappy9663]

@@HyperFocusMarshmallowSo that quote can’t apply broadly? You should feel stupid for saying that

[@estebanperez4171]

Biggest child abuse scandal of our lifetime

[@xienela]

YES! THIS IS PEDOPHILIA IN DISGUISE!

[@LadieKadie]

Indeed! Thanks for taking the lead Brits.

[@hugobossin]

You just can’t make it up 😞

[@Biggle_PeePee]

Evil scientist for sure

[@Ryan91487]

Go back to a settlement in 2001, TAP labs pulled a scandal like this for years suggesting Puberty Blockers for Precocious puberty and had to pay back $875 million to the government and the patients for the damage the drugs caused atop fraud of having government pay for those blockers.

[@1996connor]

It doesn't take a Doctor or a Scientist to realise interrupting a persons natural cycle of going through puberty is going to lead to irreversible damage. This is why It's sickening it was even prescribed in the first place

[@TransVoiceCoach]

Because in the event you have a person who stays trans going through puberty constitutes irreversible damage to an arguably much higher degree. While teenagers were given access to puberty blockers (realistically speaking few) actually went on them. But the proportion who continued transitoning was much higher than those that stopped after going on puberty blockers. By entirely removing access to puberty blockers you essentially consign all the ones who need them to irreversible changes happening in their bodies which can culminate in the need of multiple avoidable surgeries as adults. Its also worth noting what's "natural" isn't always desired for example wisdom teeth. For lots of people no issue is posed, but for some extra intervention is necessary. (also worth noting that the study mentioned in here doesn't say anything about the time span of the study used.) Puberty is a process. If puberty blockers are taken at the start then everything sorta stays the same. If they are taken at the end then everything has already happened and "the damage is already done." Unless the study looked at from like impact of onset of puberty-end of puberty it doesn't really say anything at all. Basically we need more studies that look at the real impacts.

[@ianguest2011]

​@@TransVoiceCoach"sorta stays the same" what kind of statement is that. Triptorelin was created to treat the advanced stages of prostrate cancer. The evidence is clear that it affects bone density when prescribed to men to treat prostrate cancer. When given to children during puberty which is when children's bones become denser there are bound to be significant consequences. Then there's sterility, loss of libido, how they affect cognitive development. Whenever a medicine is prescribed off label there are risks that haven't been accounted for.

[@ianguest2011]

​@@TransVoiceCoachAnd some of the safeguarding concerns directed at GIDS were by surgeons who were performing surgeries on young adults who has been given puberty blockers early on in puberty and because their penises hadn't been given a chance to grow because of the puberty blockers they then struggled to create a vaginoplasty because there was very little to work with.

[@ghostsandwich1867]

​@@dddayesq5061am starting to have a very shaky feeling that this could have impact for future generations this could cause puberty not develop in our children which is gonna have long lasting effects

[@is17a985]

@@TransVoiceCoachStop being an apologist.

[@hellgates_javed6451]

Any doctor that approves this should be jailed

[@Schnoz42069]

Shut up

[@HelperUTTP]

​@@Schnoz42069abuser

[@BoofPack69]

Wow, what a shocker!! Who could have seen it coming??? Absolute clown world

[@floatingleaf9672]

It'll be interesting to see how their mental health is in 10 years and again in 20.

[@David-wn8uy]

😂Oh they'll still be batshit crazy.

[@BBWahoo]

​@@David-wn8uy or dead

[@kevinthekid9623]

Yeah they’ll be degenerates.

[@Nicole-y8r]

But they say they want to save trans lives, would you rather have a dead or alive kid? Its such manipulation ​@@BBWahoo

[@AmanSS890]

It will be interesting to see how there mental health does in a few years on puberty blockers . Most of these people saying they aren’t a man or not a women or don’t want to be called a women or man are just bat shit crazy…..

[@Bungle-UK]

Children with a mental illness need support to accept who they are, not chemicals that feed a delusion that they can change who they are.

[@phpn99]

Wholeheartedly agree

[@porscheamartin]

Except you can change who you are.

[@Bungle-UK]

@@porscheamartin no you can’t - it’s biologically impossible to change your sex.

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

@@porscheamartin Only if you define your gender or sexual orientation as being who you are

[@denys2787]

@@julianciahaconsulting8663you can change your sex by going through physical surgeries in order to do so. However, for children to engage in these life altering practices is definitely not a smart decision as their brain has not fully matured to comprehend the weight of these consequences.

[@r8chlletters]

Who wouldn’t want to avoid puberty? It absolutely sucks! That doesn’t mean it’s wise to prevent children from maturity.

[@TransVoiceCoach]

There are varying degrees of suck... Puberty for lots of teens sucks, its uncomfortable, stuff hurts, people smell, acne, voices change, all sorts. But its a bit different affair for trans people. People describe it in different ways, but for trans people it can represent your body getting further and further away from something that feels like its yours. For context I work with adult trans people a lot and this is something someone said to me once. "Whenever I talk a little piece of me gets ripped out." They were a person who barely spoke (honestly it was probably the longest sentence they said to me the whole time), and said it had pretty much been like that since their voice changed as a teenager. But that's the crazy thing, voice is one of the "fixable" things and this can result in people barely talking for 30 years. All the other changes that puberty brings... Being careful around access to puberty blockers makes sense. Provide support and help people to make the right choices for themselves while communicating with doctors and other health professionals. But if you want to completely bar access to them you should also be willing to explain to them that you would make them suffer through their body making irreversible changes that will definitely have life long impacts. Let's be honest nuance is probably the right answer.

[@aceriggs]

All available research shows that a large percentage of GD kids desist post puberty. 90% of who take PB go on to hrt. Does this not give pause? The PB were supposed to give "time to think". That doesn't seem to be the case.

[@r8chlletters]

@@TransVoiceCoach this is also what menopause or loss of hormones feels like for some women. Hormones are powerful and having gained and lost them I can tell you from the “other side” that the identity crisis is real and the self harm ideation is real. It’s important that a person be allowed to develop normally whenever possible and make well informed decision as an adult about such a life-altering and dangerous practice is hormone blocking or reversal hormone treatment. We all suffer through the process of maturation and yes we all should. It’s how we are made and it works beautifully. Kids need to deal with it just as most of us did before them. What a consenting adult does that a medical and mental health community agrees is ethical with meaningful outcomes is another matter.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

How about leaving medicine to medical professionals, huh? The mental health outcomes of untreated gender dysphoria can be very profound. Puberty blockers are one potential solution that is minimally invasive and low impact, giving the teenagers time to become adults before committing to any more permanent medical interventions. This one study being reported here is just that - one study. Let scientific research and clinical practice do their job of finding the best possible treatment for these vulnerable young people.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

​@@aceriggsthat's a very peculiar summary of the actual research

[@qp9vp]

Mental health effects is only one aspect. Puberty blockers fucks up puberty, the childs development, for life. That is a big decision to take by someone that is mentally unstable and a teenager. Teenagers thats known, by research, to lack the capacity to consider consequences.

[@TransVoiceCoach]

I think thats a valid concern, but you also want to consider how many of these kids who go on puberty blockers later still identify as trans as adults. And the fact that it impacts development for life is a big reason why people feel they need them. Any studies that look at the impacts of puberty blockers should do more than just look at the immediate outcomes and instead follow over a period of time. Things like: surgeries, mental health outcomes, social issues and violence/crime they face as a result of not "passing" all of which can be altered by access to hormone blockers. My sister went to the Tavistock clinic as a teenager and I have to admit the thing I noticed most was the lack of support. She is still happily transitioned but. For a decision like this there should be much more communication and support both around gender issues and other mental health concerns. (aka it should be better funded) (I think sometimes people panic when they think about spending money here, but if you go to hospital with appendicitis the likelihood of surgeons being there to fix it wont change getting it.) I tend to think mental health can be a bit like other health issues. If you have arthritis, you're less likely to be active and therefore more likely to have other health concerns pop up around it. The same with anxiety, if you don't want to leave the house because you're anxious you're more likely to become depressed as you engage with friends less etc. Trans teenagers have lots of issues that can pop in in the periphery so trying to draw conclusions from just were they better orworse is stupid without at least providing support to deal with the other stressors and mental health issues that result.

[@RJohn-hd1gq]

Exactly. I’m all for people being who they are and if that includes transitioning then that’s fine? We have hormone replacement therapy and gender affirmation surgery if it’s something they desire. But I don’t think it’s appropriate for children who haven’t gone through puberty as that’s when curiosity begins anyway. I also don’t think kids know for certain whether they’re transgender, gay, straight, bisexual etc until you’ve matured. Especially considering these things are a spectrum, and bicuriousity exists.

[@aniya8759]

They saved my life. Try again.

[@lauriesamuelson5]

And drug addicts feel euphoric too and say the drugs they take are "life saving". Let's see how these people are in 20-30 years. A long term study from Sweden showed worse outcomes for people who "transition" than the general population. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

[@_ArsNova]

Too young to drink, but apparently not too young to be given permanently mutating drugs that are normally used to chemically castrate people. All because a child think they "feel" a certain way. Utterly bizarre.

[@Dani-El.]

Why on Earth would you want to 'block' puberty? So strange.

[@URBeingLiedTo]

It's the only way these people can 'reproduce'.

[@YesItsRickySpanish]

Trans folk pushing their agenda on their vulnerable kids. Should come with jail time and the kids being taken into care.

[@bbcisaids6727]

​@@endjentneeringclubgender mutilation u mean

[@WillC-s5q]

​@@endjentneeringclub*child grooming and genital mutilation.

[@bbcisaids6727]

@@endjentneeringclub again child grooming and mutilation, the bbc and western msm which is funded by blackrock are disgusting inhuman filth

[@michaeln6312]

This is clearly child abuse. How is this legal?

[@joeberg3317]

Sad how even a journalist who wrote a book detailing the horrible standards at Tavistock still needs to dance around the issue like this.

[@FirstLast-dl8rt]

A journalist was questioning a medical book

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

fear of being cancelled by the woke

[@kim-urban-edwards2083]

Did they really spend the majority of this piece interviewing a guy whose only credentials on the subject are "editing a book" someone else researched and wrote, and "auditing" a report someone else researched and wrote ? It's telling that they could only get someone with THIS tenuous a connect to the subject to speak like this.

[@FirstLast-dl8rt]

Yes, the guy also thinks children need to be fertile and have children. This is what the person the BBC used as a source believes

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

@@FirstLast-dl8rt thats woke journalism for you isnt it?

[@isaiahjones7289]

That’s still more creditable then most ppls collage degrees

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

@@isaiahjones7289 well i am sure to get that job editing that book he has a degree,,,,probably an English degree if i had to guess

[@PulaskiSkater71]

If you think puberty blockers are acceptable for kids, you really need to seek help.

[@soton5teve]

Hard for you to say, when you've yet to reach it.

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

​@@soton5teve so...why do you support the chemical castration of children and teenagers?

[@FishandHunt]

@@soton5teve Insulting those with a different point of view, weak.

[@UndertakerFromWWE]

The kids have no idea the permanent damage they are doing to themselves when they transition…😔

[@HansBjorgman]

@@UndertakerFromWWE Kids can't consent to it, so it is the parents and/or doctor's fault + everyone else that is pushing it and making laws for it. Kids should NEVER have their puberty blocked! It is EVIL. Jazz Jennings is WORSE now! Terrible terrible parents!

[@ZahdShah]

As a pharmacist, I'd never distribute these. Any who does is maliciously greedy or negligent

[@izziemoss8262]

Even for a cis child with precocious puberty?

[@joeberg3317]

@@izziemoss8262that has nothing to do with gender dysphoria. At all.

[@davidkamen]

Malicious or negligent ? You forgot CRUEL and STUPID !

[@UndertakerFromWWE]

When the people decide to detransition they can never go back 100% sadly 😢

[@davidkamen]

@@UndertakerFromWWE no, it is not SAD it is totally unacceptable,. A male born a male will always be a male, no matter what treatments, surgeries, enhancements, etc. are done. Likewise a female will always be a female. After "transitioning" they are not the opposite gender, they are out and out FRAUDS who spend the rest of their lives DECEIVING the world and themselves.

[@zenquarium]

This practice needs to stop for children. It's absolutely not right and terrifying. We need to please stop hurting our children! They are our future. Let this kind of decision wait until they are mature and yes...puberty would have happened meaning hair or body development that does not align - in the end, trans people are usually suffering from body dysmorphia and or gender dysphoria - and children are not grown into fully who they will be yet to decipher the difference from exploring and suffrage from being discontent with ones assigned gender and body .. the brain is still developing! In adulthood they can make an informed and educated choice as to how the rest of their life will look like. I'm a LGBT member and this is just not okay in my books - I don't support the practice or the agenda . Leave the children alone please! Let them grow up and make this life altering choice themselves when they have fully developed. Also, it just seems like its "cool" to transition...a trend...its not. It's really horrible for those who really suffer from the conditions mentioned above. I don't know...its a mad world.

[@HansBjorgman]

It's sad. It's become a trend to trans as many kids as they can just so they can profit from them. If they actually cared about kids, they wouldn't block their puberty. It's all just experiments being done on everyone.

[@robzonefire]

Let the children grow naturally.

[@warlockboyburns]

sticking a needle in your kid unnecessarily is savage that should be obvious

[@Clancydaenlightened]

Who the fuck puts they kids on hormones and puberty blockers Ain't that effectively child abuse...

[@jhickman4735]

Yes, as Kellie Jay Keen, is CONSTANTLY telling us !

[@HansBjorgman]

WHO? Evil people. EVIL people are doing this to children! Look at what they are doing to humans every day... and pretending it's "natural disasters", "negligence", or "accidental". Nope. It's ALL intentional! These kids will unfortunately grow up to be just like Jazz Jennings... and we all saw how that went for Jazz. The "mother" completely destroyed her child! Dad, too. Whole family is awful!

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

@@HansBjorgman Its not the parents who are evil - they are very likely believing what they are allowing is in the kid's best interests - it is doctors who are pushing the puberty blockers on the behalf of the profit lusting Pharma Drug companies - and the CEOs of those companies - who are the truly evil ones.....just like doctors who pushed oxycontin and fentanyl as "safe low addictive painkillers" unto unsuspecting patients did for Big Pharma.

[@NickdeDrummer]

No control group, no peer review. Embarrassing post BBC.

[@benbow7]

Anyone involved in providing these drugs to children should face prosecution for child abuse.

[@smileygladhands]

Agreed!

[@phkit420]

Yup

[@andrewturner8491]

Definitely

[@_ArsNova]

Too young to to have a glass of wine, but apparently not too young for the state to sponsor doctors administering drugs that permanently mutate the body. All because of a child's "feelings".

[@mommyofkittens4809]

@@_ArsNovathat’s not how puberty blockers work.

[@elllie]

It's child abuse. Period

[@rafae5902]

Soooo, it seems to be linked to mental problems and not with the sex (for most cases), right? Who would've thought!

[@geoffbirchall7552]

Would have been called child abuse a few years ago!🤔

[@soton5teve]

You wouldn't be threatening emergency workers now would you? That's years in the slammer

[@geoffbirchall7552]

@@soton5teve ? No idea??

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

​@@soton5teve maybe not for much longer. Castration and mutilation of children would have been years in the slammer years ago.

[@foxgloverose4788]

Surgeons are now learning that they are unable to create a vaginal sleeve using the penis of a male who has not gone through puberty as the penis is too small. There simply is not enough material. Furthermore children given puberty blockers pre-puberty are upon maturity these unable to orgasm. This appears to be more common in male to female individuals. Much research is needed! I am against giving puberty blockers to any child or adolescent. Ludicrous to allow a child or parent to interfere with a childs puberty for their fanciful frequently attention seeking behaviours and experimentation. Poor kids. Tragic.

[@user-linzilou84]

The Tavistock institute was closed down because it was found to be "unsafe for children".Over 1000 families are now suing the NHS. They plan on opening another, five regional clinics.

[@kerryannestevenson6099]

This is untrue,there aren’t 1,000 people suing the NHS.

[@user-linzilou84]

@@kerryannestevenson6099 Why are you lying? It has been public knowledge for a year now. Anybody interested in the truth can read it for themselves.

[@kerryannestevenson6099]

@@user-linzilou84 I’m not lying,it was debunked.

[@eldritchpalmerable]

Prescribe drugs based on ideological points, to people that cannot make informed decisions, what could go wrong?

[@lexruptor]

* Perscribe drugs based on the individuals feelings, needs, and mental health, to people who are far more informed than most adults could hope to be, about their bodies, during a limited window of time before such a thing can no longer be done. Fixed that for ya. And what could go wrong? Morons could get involved, like this comment section, and start yapping their opinions on things that quite rrankly do not concern them. Then the teens who desperately need this in order to block the wrong puberty from happening will suffer, just like the gays always have.

[@switchedon6530]

Keeping nations sick are Good for business WEF/OWO OCCULT AGENDA 👁️☠️

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@lexruptor I used to want to be a werewolf as a child, that doesn't mean we should start gene therapy to make me more like a wolf. Your entire argument is ridiculous. Children have no idea what is going on and are uniformed. How about we don't experiment on children because of your disgusting ideology? You're worse than religious zealots.

[@leenieledejo6849]

​@@lexruptor"the wrong puberty". Like "the wrong eye colour"? One way ticket to mental health issues is to not accept anything you have. They end up wanting to change everything and are never satisfied...

[@eldritchpalmerable]

@@lexruptor prescribe drugs based on the individuals’ feelings. That is not how it works friend. Medicine is an accurate science not a pizzeria.

[@LaurentCourtines]

5% difference to the negative side. And no peer reviewed. This is a nothing burger

[@RogueTravel]

Imagine being the child in this situation. Forever altered and no idea what could have been

[@factsoverfear9771]

A child doesn’t have the understanding to choose to do this ✌🏽

[@DarkPesco]

@@RogueTravel you spout ignorance. There is nothing permanent about puberty blockers. Please don't offer opinions on topics you are ignorant to.... you'll appear smarter.

[@tastypymp1287]

This practice needs outlawing with extreme prejudice.

[@tastypymp1287]

​@@DarkPescoOh yes there is.

[@jonathankoziol6573]

They’re not necessary at all. Parenting is necessary.

[@Satans_lil_helper]

So, the results are a mixed, therefore more research is needed. That's not the answer people are looking for, but I'm sure they've already formed some strong opinions about it regardless of the data.

[@_ArsNova]

Because the results don't matter. If drinking under 18 is banned, so should life-altering drugs that are administered on no empirical basis, just someone's "feelings".

[@phpn99]

More research by doing it to more children ? Criminally-irresponsible and even more so because the whole thing is purely ideological.

[@Satans_lil_helper]

@@_ArsNova You built that strawman all by yourself, did ya?

[@liselotte6384]

Moreso, they assume that you can just correlate two things by association. Puberty blockers don't magically solve mental health -- but if the researchers wanted to be at all responsible, they'd at a bare minimum be comparing this to a similar sized sample of trans kids whose mental health drastically worsened from not getting the scientifically-backed medical interventions they desired.

[@joeberg3317]

"More information is needed," in the US context at least, is a thorough and comprehensive indictment of the medical associations.

[@roman.r8587]

someone take me back to the good old days

[@alephmale3171]

Yes. Literally just 15 years ago was truly a golden age

[@izziemoss8262]

Want to go back to the days of Jimmy Savile, rampant homophobia and misogyny

[@mikalina1]

​@@izziemoss8262 We still have two out of three, thanks to trans

[@izziemoss8262]

@@mikalina1 well that’s clearly just not true. If anything the anti trans movement is turning back the clock and making homophobia and misogyny more rampant because you’re using it as part of your push back to trans rights.

[@izziemoss8262]

@@mikalina1 silly me, are the whole American congress and Donald Trump pro trans?

[@izziemoss8262]

It’s a non peer reviewed study… seems to have an agenda and didn’t take other factors into account like the fact they’re trans kids and more likely to be ostracised in their community anyway leading to poor mental health. I call rubbish.

[@monicabhagwan5594]

the minority stress argument has not been proven.

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Typical Big Pharma funded fraudulent study with rigged data. Pharma after all are the masters of such studies to push their woefully short on safety data drug products

[@bshrful]

HOW COME ALL OF A SUDDEN IS THIS UNTIL NOW NOTHING LIKE THIS HAPPENED

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Big Pharma saw an opportunity to make billions of dollars regardless of the safety of their drug product.

[@Screen_Prism]

If it’s not in a peer reviewed journal as the description says, then we should be very skeptical.

[@MiserableMuon]

I agree, skepticism is important especially when the claims are from a news channel.

[@axis1393]

Why stop there, perhaps skeptical about who the peers are and their credentials, who runs the journals and their ideologies or agendas, who funds them and maybe most importantly what or where is the rerun on their investment? Skepticism is great, but it has to be impartial, which makes us humans ill equipped to deal in it.

[@keanusolan2844]

There is certainly a role for peer review; but, that itself is not infalliable to bias nor does it automatically suggest that the conclusions drawn by the report are incorrect or nefarious. But, as you said, a healthy dose of skepticism would benefit everybody greatly.

[@katelockdown4355]

That's because it hasn't been submitted yet.

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Sadly and most disturbingly even if it was in a peer reviewed journal it does not mean its legitimate scientific research anymore as Big Pharma has now "captured' the vast majority of peer reviewed academic medical journals by having those journals become dependent upon Pharma advertising revenues for their continued existence - much like how Pharma used ad revenues to gain control over the Mainstream Media...and with that dependency of those peer reviewed journals upon Pharma advertising dollars has come an attack on the very body of medical evidence/knowledge we have at our disposal with past studies that were published in those captured journals now being deleted if they contained evidence that goes against the financial interests of Pharma and its drug products..this also has meant that current studies submitted to the journals that undermine a drug company's claims about a drug product they make are increasingly being refused to be published in those journals and moreover it has meant that bogus scientifically fraudulent papers that support a drug companies' claims about a drug product are increasingly being published in those journals. It doesn't take the proverbial rocket scientist to see how this will translate into very negative things for the public.

[@MisterMukdenTimes]

The tide is turning...people are waking up.

[@BarnabyWild13]

It’s only American for profit gender healthcare keeping the low afloat. Exploiting adolescent vulnerabilities for a billion dollar medical industry.

[@jonpierson559]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@PaulMathias1]

Child abuse. Plain and simple.

[@FreakyTeeth]

The idea that putting children, whose brains haven't finished developing, on chemicals which will inhibit their body's production of hormones they need to grow not only their bodies, including in some ways which aren't related to sexual development, but also to grow their brains, isn't going to have a serious risk of severe and irreversible side effects on body and on mental health, simply because "no-one says so" and because it's "what the children want" is...almost laughably naive. I mean...the recklessness...the irrationality...the nonsense of confusing love with spoiling children rotten...this is what happens when the lunatics persuade the gullible that they're sane, and the greedy take advantage of it.

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Robert F Kennedy Jr has been warning the public about puberty blockers and their shocking lack of safety data for some time now. But of course he is derided as a nutcase by the Pharma controlled Mainstream Media and as a result many of those who trust the MSM dismiss Kennedy a lunatic and discard his warnings.

[@liamp.8826]

Whoever takes advantage of vulnerable children, deserves the worst! A CHILD CANNOT MAKE THESE KINDS OF DECISIONS‼️

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

​@@lingyjennifer8399 peer-based sexual activities (so things beyond self-pleasure) begin as young as 3. Gender, according to you, is apparently known at 3. Should the age of consent be lowered to 3? (That's not rhetorical, I'm asking your actual opinion.)

[@andychow5509]

It's obvious. You can "delay" a biological process. You can alter it.

[@soton5teve]

Q.) Do you think stopping the drugs, and therefore forcing trans people to see their bodies change, in a way, they do not wish, is a form of torture and that the nhs and government will be sued and forced to make an apology in the future for, the answer is yes.

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Do you think that allowing a drug that is woefully short on short and long term safety data to be used by kids will result in the not so far distant future government and health regulatory bodies being sued by those irreversibly injured & harmed by that drug and the tax payer not the pharma drug companies will be left having to cover the compensation monies for those injured? The answer is Yes.

[@jpex9]

It’s unacceptable.

[@Nicole-y8r]

Im sick of seeing news come out as if its newly discovered info when i know people in the industry are aware how serious this is and are being intellectually dishonest.

[@lechenaultia5863]

Why won't the cowards say anything?

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

You just described pharma drug company scientists and CEOs perfectly

[@brandiwestpfahl7539]

Follow the money

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

the motto of every pharma drug company

[@ashleysmith38]

Most results ive seen say the majority of these children suffer mental health problems due to bullying from parents and other kids anyway, basicly its complicated, and we need more research

[@phpn99]

If ANY other drug had these kinds of ambivalent effects, they would be taken off the market. But noooooo, the whole gender thing has become an ideological battleground. This is criminal.

[@tastypymp1287]

We need to stop it entirely. It's sick.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

It's not complicated. Don't drug children. If, when they're adults, they decide then fine, let them pay for and do it to themselves (the taxpayer shouldn't have to cover it). But doing it to children is monstrous.

[@You-tw4zs]

@@Patrick-y4d1z By the time they're adults they would have gone through puberty and I'd imagine be severely more depressed. Most medications have side effects if its minimal its just like any other medication, what we need to decide is if its doing more harm then good and what age these things should be considered. According to the national centre for transgender equality only 8% of respondents had de-transitioned temporarily or permanently (Usually due to pressures from family). That seems pretty low. You might have questions or disagree with the study, maybe that number is slightly higher for younger people but that's why more research should and is being done. A nuanced approach should be taken, not an emotionally charged culture wars approach.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@You-tw4zs By the time they're adults, they'd have grown into their body and finished going through their hormonal changes, their minds will be at ease with who they are and they'll be happier and healthier for it. If they're depressed, then they can seek counselling to help, or antidepressants if it's chemical. Men are men, women are women. That is it. You don't get to pick and choose, biology does that for you.

[@Wishing_you_peace]

Experiments on children on a massive scale.

[@grob5119]

womp womp

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

mass clinical trials using unsuspecting children

[@Raccoonboi634]

I’m not trans myself, but my best friend and many of my best mates are and some of the pains they go through is insane. And one thing I can say after understanding that is that if I was trans, and going through puberty without anything to stop it and actively growing into a body that basically leaves me feeling alienated and sick, then I would not be alive. Simple as that. I doubt this comment section has any trans people, because of how toxic it is in here, just know to any of my trans homies I love and respect you 🫶 stay strong and keep your heads up, life does get better, even if it doesn’t seem so right now. And for anyone in the same uncomfortable situation as my best friend, I hope my comment at least serves as a little spark of hope or light

[@tr909love]

Why is this even allowed ?

[@carldanescd]

Leave the kids alone!!!!🤬

[@maryjames1868]

I dont know how a study with a sample size of 44 is even newsworthy. This is all presented in a fearmongering way, and please note that young people struggling with gender can feel negative for all sorts of reasons not related at all to puberty blockers. For example, look at these comment sections. Not exactly welcoming are they. Having no control group makes this study laughable. 'Path to hell' is also a terrible thing to start this out with, not in the least because of the not-so-subtle religious undertone. Disgraceful

[@joeberg3317]

Wasn’t this same study used as a basis for these treatments previously? Seems relevant to review.

[@liselotte6384]

Look at the verbiage used in the BBC's own description, ex. " controversial drugs" ...more like drugs literally recommended by every major medical and pediatric organization in modern Western countries for treating children with gender dysphoria. "...study has not been in a peer-reviewed journal..." "The authors say they felt there was an urgency in getting the information into the public domain" Loosely translated: "We're in transphobic Britain, and the Torries are paying us an awful lot of money to get this garbage into the public, so here you go!"

[@maryjames1868]

​@joeberg3317 Yes, it was. There are many points to go into about how the original study design was ineffective and how the re-analysis of results with a sample size of 44 was very limited in what it could actually comment on. I think that is pretty much objectively the case. This study seems to suggest that the only reason that puberty blockers are used in this context is to see mental health improvement. Whilst this could be an intended effect I feel its more likely that they're being prescribed to, you know, block puberty. Because when you have gender dysphoria and you start puberty, the gender dysphoria gets worse? Main point is that the study was limited then and kinda misguided on its approach, and a reanalysis on the research now is not very helpful either when there is no control group to speak of.

[@joeberg3317]

@@maryjames1868 My point being, if it's objectionable to cite this now, then it was *more* objectionable to have cited it in this context to begin with. "No strong evidence base either way" is a strong argument for a more cautioned approach. Also, "block puberty" is not itself an obvious reason for prescription. "The reason why we prescribe an anti-malaria medication is to prevent malaria" is not a good rationale for using hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19. That this alleviates gender dysphoria because puberty makes it worse is a hypothesis - but also one with a lot of relevant counterpoints. I think that's what things like GRADE reviews should look into.

[@maryjames1868]

@joeberg3317 I don't inherently disagree with what you're saying. Some of it, anyway My ultimate point was regarding how this video had a very leading, fearmongering approach whilst using a reanalysis of a study that seemed to provide a very limited and flawed insight. Whilst I welcome the comparison you have drawn regarding using medications in non-conventional contexts, I do feel that choosing a quite controversial one is somewhat telling of your argument. Using medications off-label is a very common practice. Hydroxycloroquine can only be used to treat covid in select clinical trials in the UK, and the WHO says outright that it doesn't recommend it. For example. Research for puberty blockers used for other issues such as precocious puberty, is not too dissimilar from what's being discussed here. In either case I recommend giving this a read. Lots of food for thought regarding the points you're making. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7430465/

[@ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER]

its a crime, not a medical treatment.

[@Schnoz42069]

Cope

[@HelperUTTP]

​@@Schnoz42069defending crime now?

[@thisgirlisoverit]

@@Schnoz42069imagine defending child abuse

[@Schnoz42069]

@@thisgirlisoverit So giving children medicine that they request, for an illness that they have been diagnosed with, that has been proven by hundreds of studies and over 80 years worth of data to be safe and reversible, that decreases their risk of suicide and increases their quality of life, after other treatments have proven ineffective... is child abuse? Is it opposite day or something?

[@hivemistressherguineapigfa8563]

It is a very big & important process to go through, so of course there's going to be mental health changes.

[@JamesLyonsWeiler1111]

"Further research" that will likely harm children? No.

[@OldOneTooth]

Which is why all prescriptions are monitored including for glasses. Those getting benefits continued, those not getting benefits looking at alternatives.

[@switchedon6530]

Lol monitored that's hilarious

[@OldOneTooth]

@@switchedon6530 as a parent of a child with something as well understood as myopia and as complex as JIA and as an adult on my own medication, yes all prescriptions are monitored and adjusted or replaced with alternatives as needed. Humans are complex, what works well in one case doesn't work for all, prescriptions need adjustment and monitoring for changes over time. Do you live somewhere without public health care perhaps? Ah judging by your comments on other posts that would be a bot factory somewhere like Russia. This explains what you're trying to generate.

[@tethergobrrr]

Yeah this was a really weird report. My first step would be to make sure nobody involved in it was involved in any further research or analysis of the subject.

[@housednb2212]

West needed common sense to begin with not trials,we all knew this bubble was meant to burst

[@johnathonwhewell]

So 44 people and not peer reviewed. What is this garbage study and report?

[@liselotte6384]

Loosely translated: "We're in transphobic Britain, and the Torries are paying us an awful lot of money to get this filth into the public, so here you go!"

[@kimanthoni6377]

Something proper from the BBC. That's a new one for me. After 35 odd years.

[@AlbatrossKnight]

Ok, so no metnal health harm? What about in 10 years time? What about their endocrine system?

[@viverra]

This new analysis shows nothing, as they themselves say. In the absence of a control group, what is the null hypothesis? With three outcomes - better, same, worse - chance would say ⅓ in each category, which is what was reported. Also, while this report does say that cause and effect cannot be concluded, it implies that any change is due to the puberty blocker itself, not to social factors. I know someone who, due to a metabolic disorder, had had delayed puberty; he had been teased unmercifully by his peers for not experiencing puberty when they did. Teasing, from any cause, DOES cause a negative change in mental health, but that is primarily a social problem. I also had a classmate who had to have a back brace; she too was unmercifully teased and became depressed. But no one would suggest that the back brace was the cause of her depression, and therefore she should not have been treated. Yes, this does deserve more study. However, I am afraid that this story will cause many to conclude that puberty blockers themselves cause psychological problems, when that is not at all demonstrated by the data.

[@LeLouisLafontaine]

Indeed ! And it seems like a lot of people fail to see the complete picture when it comes to these kind of issues. Like how some of the distress felt by these kids could be due to their pairs mocking and rejecting them if they don't conform.

[@klb9672]

Yeah yeah tell yourself that. What about health issues . You know the brian and body develop at that age significantly much more than anything else . So by altering the time you are undoubtedly going to have side effects because it goes against what's written in the genes. You just need to add two and two together. And by the way, risking getting bullied because of not experienced puberty is reason enough to not do it. And also you don't factor things like what it does to the immune system, organs, bones and so on. Also another thing you need to take into account. Overprescriptaion and irresponsibility on giving them. Basically giving to children who don't actually need them . That's a very common thing that happens.

[@Troll-q7y]

why has BBC turned off comment section under their Russell Brand videos but not this one?

[@NicholasNerios]

Such a touchy topic...

[@kael7953]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with the BBC for once.

[@RichardBaran]

Sensationalized "news". This isn't even a study... The scientific method requires a control.

[@embreis2257]

it shouldn't be up to single doctors/pharmacists or 'concerned' parents to decide whether pre-puberty kids can receive drugs as untested and lacking enough peer reviews to be regarded as safe as these. first, a national agency should collect all evidence and peer-reviews and after careful consideration decides whether this can be declared safe enough to be allowed on the market and for doctors to prescribe

[@rc-st9pg]

NO the kids can wait till they are adults and make the damned decision themselves. THis is PURE INSANITY!!! Messing with a childs sex is none of an adults business. This is a serious decision that the kid has the right to make when they are old enough to make it.

[@lexruptor]

You act like that isn't ALREADY the case, like it wasn't already peer reviewed, like this bs ISN'T anything more than morons trying to control others and what others do based on what they want others to do, how they want others to be, etc. It's EXACTLY like Christians constantly having an issue with gay people existing.

[@lexruptor]

​@@rc-st9pgWhen you're an adult, you can't BLOCK PUBERTY YA JACKASS

[@lexruptor]

​@@rc-st9pgAnd the TEEN has the right to make whenever they want. If you can circumcise me against my will at 3 days old and give ZERO apology, a teen can take puberty blockers. Their body, their choice.

[@embreis2257]

@@rc-st9pg that would be ideal. however, it seems for this purpose it is a bit late if the decision is taken as an adult

[@imatsoup1437]

The fact that BBC published a story from one side of a debate based on studies that aren't peer reviewed and neglected the additional information on how hard it is to obtain any sort of hormone treatment, let alone the turmoil these kids are already going through based on a biased society against their own identity as people is extremely concerning. I'm not sure the process in this instance but I would think it's safe to assume it's similar to the US. Hormone treatment therapies are not at all a go-to, but after much deliberation and with a doctor and a psychiatrist, only then does that decision get made (if at all) and often times the answer is no. There's so much to the other side of this, the data shown is misrepresented and more peer reviews are absolutely nessicsry, though you're acknowledging it's a hotly debated societal issue and you're neglecting to do it justice, but stir the pot instead.

[@Satans_lil_helper]

^^^This!

[@switchedon6530]

The BBC that's covered up pedophilia for decades 🤔 And still the shee'ple watch their propaganda brainwashing BS!

[@joeberg3317]

Numerous clinics in the US told Reuters they’d prescribe blockers on the first visit.

[@liselotte6384]

The sheer fact that they're willing to report a 44 kid sample size, with no control group not taking the blockers, and talk about a "re-analysis" finding a 6% difference is just staggering. Who the fuck do these people even think they are, calling themselves "scientists??

[@Jenny-nz8fb]

@imatsoip1437 - if it’s an identity why do they need medical treatment.

[@LorettaBrail]

I have a granddaughter who was illegally taken by a step grandma and OCS is also behind this. My granddaughter is only eight years old. This woman has her in therapy, no doubt grooming her. My son had to go to court twice to prevent the trans blocker injections but I do not trust this woman. How is it that a child can be taken this way, my son who had custody was working, the mother on heroin, and OCS involved because the step grandmother called them. They also involved my son’s ex who is married now to a registered sex offender… and the judge taking this woman’s word for her lies? Why was my granddaughter not brought to me? The fact that anyone would approve trans blockers to minors is disgusting and evil. The system is completely broken.

[@FellaGuy2]

I dont know if im comfortable with laws outlawing this. However, this entire thing is unsettling. It would help the issue if people would discuss it logically instead of acting like it's absolutely fine or an unparalleled evil.

[@_ArsNova]

You're fine with outlawing drinking under 18... but you don't know it you're okay with banning children permanently mutating their bodies because of "feelings"??

[@DarkPesco]

@@_ArsNova it's not permanent. Once cessation of medication occurs puberty then proceeds normally. You should research topics before you speak on them so you might enjoy flaunting your ignorance less!

[@_ArsNova]

@@DarkPesco It is permanent, this nonsense spouted by trans activists has been debunked so many times. Do you seriously not grasp how using hormones to unnaturally halt puberty and its physiological changes is permanent? Puberty doesn't magically start again as if nothing happened when you stop taking them, especially if the person has been on them long-term. There's a reason these drugs are NOT approved to be used this way.

[@phpn99]

There's nothing to discuss. It's purely ideological and it's criminal to treat children this way.

[@winstoningram99]

​@@DarkPesconah. It's what they said.

[@spencore]

you cant put band aids mental illness.. we need more awareness and funding in psychology

[@tseamus8288]

This is disgusting. Let childern be children. They can decide after thy're adults. These kids are on parents and school influence.

[@paulgibbons2320]

Tic follows Tok imagine my shock.

[@xmaseveeve5259]

DROP the mind-control music.

[@aaronbenhaggai973]

Children should not be getting puberty blockers unless its medically necessary. But by no means should any parent do this to there child they don't know the full extent of what is being done to them and should be the child's decision after they hit 18

[@soton5teve]

Who do think is giving the drugs. And you may have gone through puberty at 18, but that's not the standard age for puberty

[@aaronbenhaggai973]

@soton5teve obviously not but what i am saying is a child should be able to make that decision for themselves when they are old enough if puberty has not already happened

[@Bungle-UK]

It’s essentially child abuse in the name of an ideology.

[@andresperrle7984]

Do you even understand the underlying issue?

[@DarkPesco]

@@aaronbenhaggai973 yours are two of the most ignorant, least informed comments on this message board. Try researching this topic further before continuing to speak on it so you might flaunt your ignorance less!

[@ReactiveDogDiaries]

If the drugs aren’t meant to be used this way THEN WHY TF IS THE SYSTEM ALLOWING THEM INTO HEALTHY DEVELOPING ADULTS??!!?

[@douglasemsantos]

Thank you for the video

[@Culdune]

The BBC has weird editing. They should stop volume fading people's statements.

[@Ratatoothie]

I'm happy that more children are taking puberty blockers. This should be between their parents and the children.

[@geoffbirchall7552]

I would not let you near any of my kids!

[@RogueTravel]

Experimental drugs on kids… yeah no thanks

[@mac7040]

Children do not have consent. The only other groups other than the Transtrenders who think this are peadophiles.

[@MegrelMamba]

Okay, Mengele.

[@soton5teve]

The expert doctors, the child, and if parents are competent and supportive

[@trishtraynor]

And children not on puberty blockers are at the mercy of hormones as well !

[@JaneAustenAteMyCat]

Yes I wonder what the control group's mental health was like, given how prevalent mental health issues are among all our young people?

[@smileygladhands]

No crap! We've been saying this for years.

[@davidkamen]

Why would these "medicines" even exist ? Under what circumstances or conditions would a medical treatment require blocking someone's development in puberty ? The very existence of such a drug appears sinister because the need for it is unexplained.

[@agreeable-control]

Your question was answered in the video, I.e. they were designed to treat prostate and other cancers, among other things.

[@davidkamen]

@@agreeable-control then why are they used to stop someone's natural development while not being licensed for purpose ? There are protocols and procedures to follow if using any medication for a purpose other than what it is approved for. Using the medications to stop puberty is therefore research and the people receiving those medications are "experimental lab rats".

[@margustoo]

Early puberty can be dangerous and that is also an use for this drug.

[@ONYX-365]

Used to chemically castrate sex criminals. So messed up these are being pushed on kids!

[@davidkamen]

@@margustoo the dangers in early puberty are one thing:; using the drug to stop puberty in contemplation of a change in gender is another thing and that contemplation is NOT FDA approved because it is "research" at this time.

[@andrereloaded1425]

They allow children some breathing space before they decide whether they are Arthur or Martha.

[@DaleHartley]

Giving a child a tonsillectomy operation will benefit some children and harm others. That is the nature of EVERY medical decision. This is something that is best left to the child, the parents, and the doctor...not the public.

[@roman.r8587]

not the child, parents - maybe but theres a reason children cant make important life decisions before 18

[@joeberg3317]

No, sometimes stuff like this is also a valid public concern. Insanity in important institutions is a public concern.

[@DaleHartley]

@@roman.r8587 i would think you would want your child's agreement in this...why would you remove them from involvement.

[@DaleHartley]

@@joeberg3317 There is no insanity here bud. Gender Diaspora is a mental condition, not insanity... and is treatable by transition.

[@roman.r8587]

@DaleHartley because a life changing alteration to your body's chemistry is a decision which humans without a fully developed adult brain shouldn't make. The number of things we've done and said as children that we regrett is immeasurable. Hormone drugs have been around long enough now to be able to see the primary evidence of countless adults who took these as kids and regret their decision. There's a reason kids can't drink, drive, buy a gun, watch porn... I don't see how taking hormone altering drugs is any different.

[@Ianmundo]

here come all the armchair experts in the comments

[@tastypymp1287]

You don't need to be an expert to recognise this as very, very wrong.

[@Dialga9187]

Breaking: Medicine used to delay bad thing does not in fact stop bad thing, more at 11.

[@aarononeal9830]

BBC News needs to talk about Ecosia they are a search engine that plants trees

[@steve19811]

I think Britain banned this treatment but USA does not. As usual, Europe is getting things right.

[@mrmurdock6994]

this is crazy and should be forbidden in all world. This is completely insanity and the blame should be 100% on the parents for doing a bad job and allowing this disgrace.

[@grob5119]

womp womp

[@NewClipsOfficial]

As a biomed scientist I find this a quite one sided story, just linking drug use with mental health improvements and/or issues. These kids (especially kids with gender dysphoria) are going through more issues than just having issues with their gender. They might be bullied by fellow kids or other family members, and outside of their parents might have an unsupportive environment. The same counts for other members of the LGBTQ+ community. The newsnight report doesn't say anything about that. This issue is approached too clinical and statistical and doesn't take into account the broader environment these kids are finding themselves in. Does that mean I support the use of puberty blockers at a young age, no necessarily. But don't forget that kids at 15yo these days are pretty knowledgeable about these issues and can asses their needs pretty well due to online information that's abundantly available. You need to create a full care trajectory that goes beyond the clinical part of providing drugs. You need to help these kids understand the consequences but also handle the issues and stigma they face in their environment. In short: this NN report is a bunch of BS and pretty disappointing

[@mariep9645]

Exactly!! BBC shouldn't even be reporting on this study when it hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

[@joeberg3317]

Clinical and statistical seems like an intellectually superior way to approach this? I don’t get it.

[@theohyeahkid8500]

@@joeberg3317 not necessarily, whilst generally taking a clinical and statistical approach is well revered in life sciences, it depends and a multidisciplinary analysis (sociological, psychological, cognitive and biological) accounting for social and biological confounds (genetic predisposition to mental illness, socioeconomic background, length of dysphoria, intensity of dysphoria, socialisation factors such as friend group, presence of bullying etc.) would be best suited when addressing the effect of puberty blockers on children’s mental health. Any academic or clinician worth their salt would address each research question with a tailored approach and not just look at bivariate analysis, especially in a psychological context as attributions of mental health is open to many confounds and is multifaceted

[@joeberg3317]

@@theohyeahkid8500 I think you can do all of those things in an empirical fashion, though. This seems to be the substance of the GRADE reviews in Europe, which found the evidence basis for youth gender treatments to be low, resulting in a changed course. I didn't trust the OP's argument about 15 year-olds getting information online, and took it to be more in line with notions of gender originating from literary theory (e.g. Judith Butler). That stuff has had issues with infecting the sciences lately and people should be dismissive of it.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

No, we should just block its use in children. It's not right.

[@noelj.collins9502]

"Puberty blockers can cause osteoporosis, the loss of bone density. In Sweden, the puberty blocker-induced osteoporosis of a trans-identified young girl sparked a national controversy in 2021." See the Karolinska University Hospital Controversy where many more children were found to be seriously injured by puberty blockers.

[@DrSpock-yf3fd]

They condone it in 🇨🇦

[@paolom.6011]

44 subjects and the BBC paints this story.

[@amiciprocul8501]

So no peer review and you publish this? For shame, BBC.

[@ax6356]

Honestly, no one knows how brains work. The studies that get to be published in psychology and neuroscience journals are only 30% reproducible.

[@David-wn8uy]

🤣No amount of Frankenstein surgery can change reality.

[@HansBjorgman]

All they do is harm people for profit + experimentation! Everyone is a willing guinea pig! Kids can't consent to puberty blockers, though, so I feel bad for them. They want to turn ALL kids they can into Jazz Jennings! Look how Jazz is doing now... and that's how they will all be!

[@Mimix476]

This is the equivalent of doing stomach bypass surgery on an anorexic girl. Well, actually worse. We don’t stop children from growing by binding them, so how is this acceptable?? You hear the journalist calmly say the drugs are used for prostate cancer treatment, and the chemical castration of sexual offenders. And then she moves on, as if not completely insane. Anyway, if proof is needed for some (really??) I wonder why they are not looking at physical effects too, both short and long term.

[@soton5teve]

Yer shocker same drug has multiple uses, who'd thought 😮 lol

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

​@@soton5teve chemical castration is the use, so chemical castration is the use. Can't skirt around it; the drug doesn't magically decide to not castrate somebody based on their internal feelings.

[@RichardBaran]

That's not what the study shows at all.

[@GrimmGaming3000]

Charge the doctors with Malpractice

[@TheGacosta]

Testing any synthetic drug especially in children while prior to or during puberty is immoral. Let human nature takes it course. Physical, mental, and psychological development of a child should be the parent's responsibility and if the parents are unfit to raise children morally, then the parents should be called out and appropriate and careful measures should be taken to ensure the safety of the vulnerable children even if it means to remove them from the existentential danger preferably moved to other family relatives. Children are the most vulnerable members of society and should be dealt with love and care and of course, a moral upbringing.

[@monkeytimesmagazine3725]

IF IT'S UNNECESSARY TO SURVIVE AND SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTS THEIR HEALTH, THEN YOU CANT CONSENT TO IT AS A MINOR, EVEN WITH PARENTAL CONSENT

[@curutosan]

"it's licensed to be used to castrate sex offenders". And you're using it on children...

[@Schnoz42069]

It's not permanent, that's why sex offenders are given these drugs for the rest of their lives.

[@Elias-xc7to]

@@Schnoz42069just because you don’t take them for the rest of your life, doesn’t mean there won’t be any permanent effects which is what this video is suggesting.

[@Schnoz42069]

@@Elias-xc7to there are no permanent side effects

[@boris8787]

Brave New World is getting more crazy by the day - wish I could escape to the sane town of Chillingbourne.

[@unvaccinatedAndPureBlood]

Wow, beeb on the case decades later. Well done beeb. Better late than never 😢

[@tobleramone]

What haven't they been 'on the case' about?

[@charleyRose-l1r]

Great reporting!