40 years after Thatcher: The future of work - BBC Newsnight

Forty years after Margaret Thatcher came to power, is the UK once again on the brink of a sea change?
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In the first of a series of three films about the direction of the UK, our economics editor Ben Chu looks at the future of the world of work.
He's joined by Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, chief secretary to the Treasury Liz Truss and former Bank of England governor Lord King.
READ MORE: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-4...
Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.
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[@33sheih]

a retired governor of a national bank thinking his consulting jobs for enormous sums is part of "the gig" economy shows how out of touch are the old guard of economists with the actual labor market..

[@33sheih]

@Daniel Clark Clark I did listen but it still is a daft thing to say. He tried to argue that the problem is not the gig economy itself but the (small?) part of it that consists of low wage unprotected work- but thats not a part of the gig economy, that +is+ gig economy, and his odd consulting or lecture for a huge sum does not give him any insight into that situation at all.

[@33sheih]

@Daniel Clark Clark it might be a small part of the general UK economy but it is exactly the entirety of the gig economy - that is what this term was coined to describe. hence he is either ill informed as to what gig economy is, or he is deliberately trying to convolute this term with the very established and old tradition of freelancing, which is a completely different situation that was always around though might also became more prevalent in the last decade or so . being a freelancer usually is a life style choice rather then a only way to survive kind of thing. Baron King , in his old age does freelance odd jobs for a lot of cash, I as a software developer can decide to freelance if I rather have more freedom and flexibility rather then the security and nice pay of my corporate job, but the uber driver / delivery guy/ temp at a distribution center doesn't really have this choice - he is a part of the gig economy, me and Baron King are not.

[@33sheih]

​@Daniel Clark Clark if you cant see why the choice between being a freelance software developer and a corporate one , or in the extreme choosing between taking a job as an exec in a multi-national bank and doing lectures and consulting as an ex governor of a national bank, is in no way the same as the choice between being a uber driver or an amazon delivery guy, then I dont think i am the one who can enlighten you. maybe i will leave you a final thought - i think that being an uber driver can be a fair choice in a market where there is a real competition between ride share providers and where that competition is driven by more then just price ( i.e if these providers needed to compete for "driver talent" ) but not all markets work this way and so "let the market sort itself" doesn't always lead to a global optimum, certainly when this "free market" approach means you are free to do everything other then unionize...

[@GuinessOriginal]

@Daniel Clark Clark its a very fast growing part. Services were once a small part of the british economy too

[@GuinessOriginal]

Daniel Clark Clark uber self employed ha ha ha that's just zero hours under another name, uber drivers aren't self employed at all in reality it's just a way of keeping wages, tax and employment conditions down and unions out

[@Noscetum]

The absolute absurdity of a former head of the Bank of England comparing his after dinner speaking and consultancy work to the gig economy.

[@theirishrevolutionchannel1087]

It's like the French aristocrats moaning about the silly peasants on the eve of the revolution

[@JackJames2612]

The fucking cheek of that guy, acting like his position is the same as a Deliveroo worker or Uber driver. Disingenuous little prick, don't know why they even included him in this report.

[@veggie42]

The BofE are the problem. How can they be England when it's supposed to still be a UK??

[@boomerz2478]

Why? They are both voluntarsitic in nature? And provide people with a free choice.

[@ianedmonds9191]

@@veggie42 It was never supposed to be a UK. It was always more akin to leeches and their prey. The parasitic relationship between England and it's vassals. No More.

[@weaq84]

It's so disingenuous to suggest that the gig economy is about giving workers more flexibility when its purpose is to give employers that flexibility; they are the ones with the power. The fact that a few workers may benefit from that (purely by chance rather than by design) is not a strong defence of the system.

[@noirto2]

Ya especially gig sometimes don't cover insurance, injury or transport and various cost. So the end the of day the take home pay is worse compare to full time job that was replace with gig's.

[@CyberspacedLoner]

rigged economy

[@davidedbrooke9324]

Warren Q Rubbish you have the power to get a different job.

[@davidedbrooke9324]

Ro Ad Retrain

[@davidedbrooke9324]

It’s as simple as getting off of your ass and working at it!

[@wbell539]

Did King actually claim that he works in the gig economy? Give me strength!

[@sprobablycancr4457]

Lord "I work in the gig economy" King (aka Duke of Trollington)

[@MrLeeKnees]

Absolutely laughable

[@iliumoftroy]

What a disengenuous Twat you are my Un-noble Lord,a change is coming tick tock !

[@resisthouse]

The only people that want "flexible work" are already financially secure

[@veggie42]

Not always many could be carers for their parents/spouse/kids and work around when they can to pay for the care they need and it's a way to get out the house or be trapped

[@resisthouse]

Right, then I should have said most rather than only. The odd few legitimate examples have been used to steer the whole job market to make workers temporary and disposable. The following interview had some Tory MP trying to positively spin that the next generation will probably have to constantly retrain for the next job. I work on 2 year contracts and the lack of security is pretty stressful and makes planning for the future very difficult, I can only imagine how awful it is working day to day without even short term security.

[@veggie42]

@@resisthouse Quite a few jobs won't last. What's the point of making a vacuous women's magazine that dictates what you should wear and think? Scrap them saves energy for websites which advertise more often making more money needing more staff as it's longer working hours

[@resisthouse]

@Daniel Clark Clark can you link me a reference for those numbers?

[@GuinessOriginal]

@Daniel Clark Clark even if that's true, the number of low income part time jobs, especially for men, has risen by 4m in the last 10 years,, and zero hours contracts are rising year on year, so in ten years time the number will be far higher

[@martinobrien7110]

THE WORKER BEES HAVE BEEN TURNED INTO ANTS .

[@martinobrien7110]

@Cat Funt POOR EYESIGHT DICKHEAD

[@chrisspencer6502]

I always look at the faded traffic markets and litter covered streets in Britain and think of Johannesburg.

[@laragravenor5750]

Ha ha I'm from South Africa 😉

[@samwalker5105]

Why we don’t bring in a four day working week is beyond me

[@tharunthiruseelan4252]

Because productivity will fall by 20% and that means less supply of goods and services for everyone else.

[@samwalker5105]

Tharun Thiruseelan can you tell me how? I’m interested to see

[@ianrobinson4200]

Probably because a large part of the workforce is service industry/retail

[@tharunthiruseelan4252]

Because we will lose a whole day of work per week, and that means 20% less time to make goods and services and that logically leads to roughly a 20% fall in productivity. This will lead to firms making less profit and workers having lower incomes. This creates the cycle of deflation which is another problem in itself. Continuously falling prices will make consumers spend less in hope that they can buy that product when it is cheaper. This will stall the economy and may lead to a recession.

[@SigmundJaehn]

Tharun Thiruseelan and yet companies who have experimented with this show increased productivity. How do you explain that?

[@deebo27]

The most important facts from this is that the UK is less productive than most other EU countries and that we have the longest working week. UK employment ethic is not working (pardon the pun). We need to change!!

[@th8257]

We really do have some massive cultural problems in the UK. Chronic underinvestment in machinery and people, and also very poor general levels of education and skills. Perhaps most damagingly, in large parts of the country there's a culture with no history of value for educational attainment.

[@deebo27]

@@th8257 absolutely agree with you!!

[@abmong]

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys... That's not a reflection on migrant workers. Just wages in general. If you don't pay well your workers won't be loyal and hardworking. It's hard to be proud of your work and have work satisfaction if it doesn't give you financial security.

[@johnsmythe7940]

Another aspect is that manufacturing in Britain has, on the whole, have not re-invested in new technology or equipment not even employing indentured apprentices but prefer skilled people from overseas, which in the mid-term will cost the State more in many ways such as more Hospitals more homes more schools. The only winner in this scenario is the Private companies. Perhaps the private companies should pay for their overseas employees themselves instead of the taxpayers of Britain?

[@abmong]

@@johnsmythe7940 It depends, but on the whole legal migrant workers are a net positive for the UK. The state didn't have to invest in their education, yet when they come to work in the UK they pay tax. The problem is the government's own lack of investments into public services like education and planning for housing needs that's the problem. Or allowing low wages so the govenment ends up having to effective subsidise low wage paying companies through in-work benefits to low wage workers whether native or migrant. The government's living wage is clearly not a realistic living wage if you have family to support. Allowing cooperations and the mega rich to get away with dodging taxes. Blaming migrants is like complaining about the symptoms when you should be punching up at the government for decades of chronic underinvestment and general incompetence. Brexit isn't going to help the issu, only exacerbate it.

[@alibashy5146]

As am watching this video am at work 0 hour contract working as a construction worker and am 24 living in London it just doesn’t make sense how this country is working but yet again I need the 0 hr contract to work as a deliveroo driver after my day job just to keep my head above water.

[@mattw9764]

Worker ownership and control of the workplace. Worker coops. The direction to an economy and society that works for everyone - not just the few.

[@OakleyANDSittingBull]

@Matt W , Hear! HEAR!!! And, intentional households and intentional communities, both with crops gardens. :)

[@jjjjjpppppbbbbb]

Productivity is calculated with GDP per hour worked. It is quite simple why the UK has low productivity yet still has a growing economy ... Cheap imported labour

[@veggie42]

Cheap imported to pick fruit and veg for rich supermarket bosses like Mike Coupe

[@feyn5869]

or just a fuck ton of robots, brown people aren't to blame as much as you would like them to be.

[@daniellockwood7344]

I'm not sure he mentioned "brown people" @@feyn5869

[@mudchair16]

Oy vey, are you suggesting that mass immigration has nothing to do with strengthening and enriching us? I smell antisemitism and bigotry! Next you'll be telling us all to read Quadregesimo Anno. Oh, the horror.

[@danielr4774]

Need more work from home jobs. I work in a call centre that could easily be done remotely. Makes sense for the company (no heating , maintenance etc.) and for the employee (no commutes, better balance).

[@tutenvanman2715]

You are a gullible twat. How can manufacturing be done from home. Only civil servants can work from home cause they do sod all. You talk out your arse and shit comes out your mouth. Your name should be Daniel Readabookforf*cksake.

[@kuribojim3916]

@@tutenvanman2715 Mate what on earth is all the upset about? Daniel simply said "need MORE work from home jobs" - he said nothing about manufacturing. Obviously working from home/remotely doesn't make sense for every job time. Common sense, surely.

[@peterkirk123]

@@tutenvanman2715 Micheal Heseltine Deputy Prime Minister 7Th Nov 1996 " This Government will never introduce a minimum wage " 3 rd Dec 2014 " Former Tory Deputy Prime Minister Micheal Heseltine has called for a hike in minimum wages " The Labour party who introduced both the NHS and minimum wage which the Torys opposed are the party for the many not for the few ( billionaire tax dodgers )

[@JackTyeWilson]

Atomising the workforce would be a wet dream for employers. How are you supposed to organise and unionisewith your colleagues when you don't even know who they are?

[@danielr4774]

@@JackTyeWilson You would still be engaging with your colleagues for work related matters, impossible to do a job without communication. From my experience, the union culture just isn't there. What happens instead is that we moan incessantly about something and then come to some sort of compromise with the most proximate manager/co-ordinator to us. As long as things don't get too bureaucratic and controlling, people will generally manage their own work without breaking their back.

[@HammerHealedCD]

Average weekly earnings have been forced down especially in the last 10 years.If you flood the market with cheap labour willing to work for far less what do our politicians expect? How dare millions of those affected vote to stop the unlimited flood of cheap labour.And no politician will ever answer a simple question.When did we vote to open our labour market to unlimited cheap labour? We didn't but we voted to stop it on 23 June 2016.

[@veggie42]

Cheaper because their currency is lower. Yet they aren't paid less that's a myth

[@nicholaswoolfenden5254]

If the UK is only 80% as efficient as the France or Germany as stated then something is very wrong. Companies cant compete with Europe so what good is leaving the EU?! At least Britain gets a lot of EU subsidies and grants for research as things stand. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is stupid, the UK has not been competitive for decades.

[@veggie42]

We don't get as many subsidies, Blair gave some up the rebate up!!

[@Jack-fs2im]

Nicholas Woolfenden germany are europes biggest manufacturer and has profited the most from the EU selling its goods with the euro duty free and undercutting imports.

[@oo3380]

Thatcher had to destroy the working class to meet the demands of rich businesspeople, who wanted to become "competetive" on the world scale at the expense of the working class. They wanted to cut costs and increase capital gains. Similarly to what Reagan did in the USA. And that's the problem - to what extent should politics be held hostage to demands of rich businesspeople?

[@veggie42]

She destroyed the unions that kept striking which meant zero productivity and mining was a dirty, dangerous occupation risky and not well paid (unless up top) she outcourced everything to people to run and they made the profits themselves from the state

[@veggie42]

@Daniel Clark Clark Thatcher secretly imported cheaper Eastern European coal I heard instead to undercut British so people stopped buying it so she could justify British Coal's decline...she wanted them to work in the city instead where they didn't strike with a decent pay..

[@veggie42]

@Daniel Clark Clark Employment wasn't as good as 1975 when a year later we was in debt so needed the IMF?? Doesn't make sense and still in debt and apparently lowest unemployment again. It's suss how comes

[@j.chiari4222]

Thank you, Ben Shit!

[@gary-9340]

The 70's were a bad time, but I think we're now much worse off than where we were back then.

[@veggie42]

I disagree. The amount of hours we have to work, the amount of plastic waste, the cars, the newspapers which regurgitate rubbish same with too many TV channels. In the past if we had the energy system we had now then with few TV channels we wouldn't have the need for energy and people wouldn't be sat on their backsides still bored. Loads of books now more than then. Yet fewer TV channels. Few wasted food in shops less obesity and you could see a Dr. If the health system of now was then more would be alive. Fewer junk food outlets meant the old today ate slightly healthier diets.

[@gary-9340]

@@veggie42 I completely agree.

[@veggie42]

@@gary-9340 If the shops closed during the day for lunch, that would allow people to mix and relax instead we have people doing shift lunch or not having a proper lunch hungry whilst the shop is dead the shoppers have lunch! What's the point of being open between 1 and 2 PM? Also shops open so early. If it was 12pm-6-7pm, it would help more women. They take kids to school then have a lunch break pick toddlers up 1pm for a nanny then work till 6pm. If secondary school kids started at 10am until 4-5pm that would help I was at school till 4pm..

[@veggie42]

@@gary-9340 I noticed foreign shops and the post office near me have a hour closure between 1 and 2pm. It makes sense more productive. People can wait

[@gary-9340]

@@veggie42 I agree with you. The only reason why the 70's were bad was due to the economy. There was stagflation, and inflation was very high. Also, the unions had too much powers. Today, the unions have too little powers. On societal issues, I completely agree with you, the 70's were much better.

[@unitycalling4676]

Some workers should charge £50.00 a day. But £4.50 an hour when working. This will guarantee the worker £250.00 a week so even if the employer doesn't use the worker for those 5 days. The employer must give one weeks notice that the worker isnt need on a particular day. That's where the compulsory £50.00 because telling a worker on the day that service is not needed means that the worker couldn't find other work or arrangements that needn't be in place.

[@juliecarter7799]

So how would anybody pay the rent plus everything else on £250 a week? Or are you squatting? Or have some sort of a private income? You need at least £500 to survive in London...

[@frankx8739]

Zero hour contract work make you feel like an illegal immigrant.

[@clowncarqingdao]

It certainly makes people seem as if they can't conjugate verbs as well.

[@glyntutt1586]

It is over simplistic to compare the regularly used and quoted ‘productivity’ measure that is based on total GDP and number of people in work. The U.K. has a growing economy and low unemployment (as at April 2019), which means that they contribute more on average to the treasury. Sure living wage needs to be mandatory’ but to compare the U.K. to Germany and France on productivity is wrong as Germany has much more manufacturing business (small and large) with high exports, this helps GDP. France assumes that self employed workers and farmers only work 35 hours per week; I live in France and I can tell you that these types of workers (not employees) work more hours than 35, so again the assumption that the productivity index in France is higher than the U.K. is flawed. I am an engineer, when I look at the U.K. economy I observe 2 things’ Firstly, people want to come and work in the comparatively liberal work environment and this is evident in EU migration, the U.K. is unparalleled in this respect, so if the U.K. is so up the swanny why is this? Secondly, despite recent fluctuations, the £GBP is indépendant and strong. U.K. property values are also relatively high, London is the most expensive place to live in the world. Something is driving this... and in my humble view it is the relative healthiness of the economy. What I do think is wrong is that the gap between rich and poor and accessibility to the property market. This is a policy decision for HM Treasury. Simply increase stamp duty on property purchases not made by resident or British nationals (i.e. foreign non residents and legal entities) and simplify the taxation system to a standard rate of between what is considered by the experts as fair. I.e. zero tax on all income up to the living wage and thereafter 22% to 25% on everything else. This would also reduce the tax authorities need to employ the number of HMRC staff by a huge number. No loop holes, all income wether derived from wage, dividends or bonuses etc. The problem is that politically votes are won when people perceive the rate of tax on income for the rich is higher than what they pay. The reality is that the tax contribution by the rich is proportionally less today than the run of the mill employees like you and me. How long the middle class will support this is the real question, but focusing on the poor has never solved the problem as that is a moral responsibility, not a economic/political one.

[@pandora8478]

Great reporter, great series.

[@bartoszkowalski5532]

Does anyone know what's the music at 8:56 called?

[@Jeannelawes]

Francis O'Grady, TUC Secretary, @4.46 earns £175,000 per annum !

[@abucorbyn4097]

Got to love the BBC. A programme about workers but not a word about the millions of people turning up every few years to work in the UK. With an unending supply of workers, wages will drop or stagnate.

[@3506Dodge]

This is reinvigoration of democracy in Britain. It's difficult, but necessary. It's a sign that Britons see their national institutions as worth fighting for. It turns out that Britain DOES have defining principles and is fundamentally democratic. It will be a democratically invigorated government that will improve infrastructure, training, and research and development not a neoliberal government dominated by global capital.

[@veggie42]

Representative Democracy doesn't work. The representatives keep deciding what's "best" for everyone instead of the people deciding for themselves in a Libertarian way

[@jwjgreenwood9806]

Right ok the good old days of the coal mining industry 🤦‍♂️

[@fearghal10]

I'm only even watching this video right now because the agency shift I was supposed to be working today cancelled on me - making 3 out of the last 4 that have been cancelled and leaving me a few hundred pounds poorer. These 'gig' employment agencies invariably sign up as many workers as possible, regardless of the amount of work they actually have to offer. This simultaneously empowers the company to make bold guarantees to their clients, while disempowering their 'employees' from any trace of bargaining power. Workers then have to compete desperately for shifts which are generally first come first serve and must take whatever they can get; instability, not flexibility. There was one I signed up for that works through an app like some Black Mirror episode, with employees and employers leaving star ratings on one another's profiles after every interaction. Obviously, no one desperate enough to be using app to find cover shifts washing dishes can afford to turn a job down just cause the employer has 1/10 stars, but one false move could close an entire field of income for the worker. This shit needs to be properly regulated, before it becomes so hardwired into our economy that it becomes unreformable.

[@faridalrasyid7178]

What music title behind back baground?

[@williamtemplar8406]

Black lung makes me feel nostalgic.

[@anonUK]

Luxury! We used to have to pay to go to work, even if we'd just died.

[@ConsumerWatchdogUK]

An employer isn't going to pay £12 per hour to an employee generating £10 per hour in output. Forced minimum pricing will lead to unemployment.

[@gsb5859]

Far more fundamental problems at the heart of all of this of which the biggest problem is the way the banking and monetary system operates. Since 1971 no currency in the world has been backed by a tangible asset (like gold) and every country has floating currency dominated by the world’s most sought after reserve currency ... the US dollar. This has quite simply given way to endless generation of money of which the majority has ended up in the hands of mega wealthy. The UK economy has supposedly done well partly as a result of investors ‘thinking’ that the UK £ is of value. I dread the moment where nobody actually thinks this in future because you can’t sustain a population and the standard of living currently enjoyed as the UK will simply not afford the energy input required.

[@billyliar1614]

Heseltine telling the workers that, in fact, they really quite enjoy the job insecurity of casual contracts is a bit like a prison guard telling the inmates that, actually, they really quite enjoy fighting each other in bare knuckle cages for those scraps of bread. How utterly patronising ( and contemptible )

[@faridalrasyid7178]

Ho now music title from back baground?

[@mcc5901]

If your job is mundane, it’s not the responsibility of the company owner to entertain you. Adam Smith knew that specialisation would bring this problem. If you’re unhappy working for someone else then you must take the bull by the horns and set up your own going concern. Of course, that will entail previously unknown responsibilities, taking work home with you everyday, giving up your weekends and probably foregoing holidays. You will wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat because you have to ensure your staff are paid and all that before seeing whether you have made any profit, if at all. If you don’t want any of that and your only gripe is that your job is boring then you have exchanged a fixed and guaranteed salary for unlimited profit and less independence. It is the government’s obligation not to get in the way of business and enable businesses owners to get off the ground and survive. Governments do not create jobs, the entrepreneur achieves that miracle despite the obstacles socialist policies put in front of them. Everyone should aim to be their own boss, but a vast majority do not want the responsibility and added workload. It’s just a fact of life the world over.

[@bigdaz7272]

Bosses pretend to Pay, Workers pretend to Work. Its no rocket science lol.

[@ASLEFshrugged]

Diane Coyle, Cambridge University hasn't been paying attention. Unions are already using technology, social media and "21st century ways" to help workers organise.

[@AICabal]

Because the British mentality is quantity over quality. Just work MORE HOURS, MORE, MORE, MORE!

[@aon10003]

Thatcher installed an economic system that was built on growth aka population expansion, at the same time, the populus of UK started shrinking during the Thatcher years. A simple equation of actions and consequences.

[@MrBlaxjax]

Sorry, That's crap. The UK population is headed for 70 million. The UK population is in no danger of shrinking.

[@veggie42]

Unless there was a plague/illness. Brexit will help cut the population by stealth

[@aon10003]

@@MrBlaxjax Have you ever seen a population pyramid for UK. Even it you Went for your idea that the poeple over 70 would be more, that wouldnt help the economy. Btw people over 70 is kept alive by very expensive Healthcare and you dont have that Money. So no 70 millions.

[@veggie42]

We had balanced immigration under John Major less came in then until 2004

[@michaelmurphy1306]

Who’s have thought Liz Truss would become PM after seeing this video

[@jezzermeii]

I think something is missed in education and is crucial to our success in an autonomous economy: financial education. Learning how to manage your assets is something that we still don't teach our children. I know that's not the entire solution to the problem, but it will become more crucial as manual work becomes less commonplace. Just a thought. :) We should be running our homes as businesses.

[@veggie42]

Correct. Financial and accounting education then means people are savvy and don't get into unncessary debt and live within their means. Too many waste food when they aren't hungry which uses resources. The environment argument needs using at the selfish young the most

[@DarylBaines]

Someone, somewhere will still have to do the "mindless drudgery". Much of the "race to the bottom" is driven by regular consumers who want more for less. Why give a taxi driver a decent income when I can pay less for an Uber? Why keep shop workers in decent pay and conditions, when I can pay online to have someone on a zero contact to stuff my purchases in a box? Lots of nice words from middle-class hypocrites.

[@veggie42]

Yep. The people want Asian made cheap shit but why do some places sell it for more? I hope every shop ripping people off goes to the wall. The managers are male and stupid

[@veggie42]

People don't need the shit it's marketed smartly to fool young people who need to listen to XR

[@jameshughes5722]

No people want value. Sadly everyone in this country wants to do basic work and get paid like a doctor. You have cooks on £10 an hour ffs. While the people who do your infrastructure admin are on £9. We value the wrong things in the uk. It'a all about how it looks not the actual use of the service.

[@minimax9452]

The overhelming Union-Power is a fairy tale. In Germany the Unions have about 90% or 80% Union Members. One of the board members has to be from the unions. Germen carmakers survived - GB has no own carmakers anymore.

[@veggie42]

GB sold a lot off to make abroad, it's cheaper to import than make round here. The £ did it

[@stephanvelines7006]

Actually unions in Germany held back their demands during crises and after the reunification. Also there was a consensus that the maintaining of the secondary sector (industrial sector) was preferable to enable wide parts of the lower classes to work. Meanwhile most other western nations where considering this to be out of date, there focus was on the finance sector for the highly educated and on social aid for the lower classes. Obviously after 2008 that was no longer financially viable. Furthermore the unions are less influential even though unions have many members. That’s because the workers have direct ties to the management and can veto decisions whilst taking responsibility via works councils (Betriebsrat). Therefore the task to represent the workers is split: the unions make branch specific demands on national level and the works council adapts it to the local situation of each branch and each factory.

[@minimax9452]

@@stephanvelines7006 Very impressive - you seem to be well informed. In contrast to the british in germany they integrated the unions in the management process (Arbeitsdirektor). Sometimes they even corrupted them (Mr. Hartz at VW). But there was an ongoing dialog between unions, big companies and government. In GB they fought much harder and tried to destroy each other. Thatcher did not only destroy the unions she destroyed the industry. The british seem to have a history of selfharming (e.g. Brexit). But also in germany the middle of the society has lost in the last decades and a rich minority has won. Not as intensive as in GB but on the sam path.

[@itstheengineersdaughter1296]

I can't fucking believe Sports Direct is built on the site in Derby, zero hour contracts ?! That's why I never shop there, no Corporate Social Responsibility.

[@DCI-Frank-Burnside]

There was a real sense of community in the pit villages to the point where they developed their own patois.

[@Avidcomp]

Who subsidizes Sports Direct? No one. So of course the former miner preferred his job under protectionist ideologies. His existence was through social force of others for his peers. Unsustainable. Keep government out of it. The answer is free markets, which brings competition. Alternative private enterprises could easily attract the staff away from Sports Direct, which in turn would hurt Sports Direct unless they offered better terms. But it's difficult to setup businesses with government interventionism in the way,making it so difficult to make large profits. This of course becomes easier when large "private" businesses lobby with government for regulations that help to stifle future competitors. A vicious circle, and a result of government interventionism.

[@hugostiglitz1673]

Ah yes what we need is more neoliberalism and free markets, because Thatcher didn't destroy the working class & poor enough. What a genius.

[@Avidcomp]

@@hugostiglitz1673We didn't have free markets then and we don't have them now. So decide what it is that you want to criticize.

[@hugostiglitz1673]

@@Avidcomp Neoliberalism is already deeply laissez faire and proven to be a complete failure for the majority of people, so the solution is to go even more in that direction?

[@fatfat1877]

@@hugostiglitz1673 The biggest increases in health happened in the 19th century and a bit of the late 18th century and also early 20th century. Singapore is doing very well today and Honk Kong under Britain are good examples of free markets working well. Many problems these days are caused by government.

[@Socrates0318]

This piece highlights the loss of power of the individual as a worker, but then instead of promoting more power to the individual it promotes more collectivism.... This is the BBC identifying issues with collectivism in order to push more collectivism... Good luck with that.

[@Felix-bd8rj]

Interesting report - and goes some way to exposing the statistical gymnastics used since 2010 to defend policy: unemployment at historic lows (ostensibly a plus) despite low productivity, falling living standards, job security etc. One of the contributors was quick to describe trade unions as a nineteenth century phenomenon, but surely some of the fossilised big businesses are just as anachronistic? (And, there's nothing 'new' about co-operatives!)

[@dianabrown1409]

long live labour

[@artvandelay701]

It's already dead.

[@veggie42]

Labour isn't labour with modern technology taking the Labour out of it

[@Jack-fs2im]

Diana Brown Labour isnt a british party anymore and Corbyn fought against the EU for 25yrs,hippocrite?

[@emilianozapata9331]

A better title would have been "Forty Years After the Bitch!"

[@rodhayward836]

If you are sick, poor or out of work, go and sign on with the Ministry of Insults. We are not worth it.

[@GB140459]

The real problems started in new labour’s term. We lost touch with skills the economy needed and offered courses that sounded like fun: media studies, sports journalism, music, fashion etc and young men flocked to them. Many of those that didn’t went into jobs like supermarkets, marketing, charity work etc and didn’t challenge themselves with demanding jobs that really tow the line for England. I suggest you look up Mike Row in the US. The same applies here.

[@GB140459]

*Mike Rowe with an e There’s a few other reasons for our problems as well. As a nation we’ll be paying the price for the period 1998 to 2010 for a while longer yet!

[@ozgeozcelik8921]

RT's Boom Bust brought me here

[@stevevardy825]

11.50 'if people want to take a sabbatical' Clearly this person has zero experience or knowledge of the reality of the majority on zero hour minimum wage jobs When you struggle to pay the basics with the constant worry of not having work the next week the idea of a sabbatical is absurd. Clearly not fit for a position of power

[@Matty88301]

Liz Truss is absolutely mental. "If people decide to take a sabbatical" Only financially secure people do that, Liz. "Want to work more flexibly" Almost everyone who genuinely want more flexible work hours are already in full time employment with a contract that says you can't be sacked because the boss didn't get brown sauce on his bacon butty that morning. People work for years in jobs they can be fired from, on the spot, because somebody just felt like it. How are we managing to make life ever worse for the majority.

[@joshuahowie1863]

The robots are going to take our jobs anyway #YangGang

[@albertbrennaman5605]

no no, now you can work in non-hierarchical workplaces! One word of a female co-worker will then determine if you are able to eat or not. Isn't that a glorious future to look forward to!

[@veggie42]

Robots are operated by people as tools.

[@Rustsamurai1]

Foreign robots, they be, too...

[@Rustsamurai1]

@@albertbrennaman5605 Minefields must be signposted. Employment with females, however...

[@clowncarqingdao]

.Thank you, Chicken Little. Next please ....!

[@betelgeuser1100]

to the last question its going to most likely be obstruction especially for the folks in the sport direct because they are not competing amongst local players with same high living standard like in the 80s they are competing with the worker from asia that could do twice the work for half the cost its either this or they move that simple of course the service telecommuting economy could be helpful to far flung areas, but you are also then going to be competing with other who are just as good with low living standards so yeah its going to most likely be obstruction put up those walls lol

[@Bullfrog377]

It is blindingly obvious that the single cause of low wages and zero hours contracts is the unlimited supply of cheap complaint labour coming from the EU. Which means that workers have zero bargaining power. This is probably the single biggest reason why 17.4m people voted for Brexit. This also keeps productivity down - because the cheaper labour is, the less incentive there is for an employer to invest in training or tools/technology. Again, blindingly obvious.

[@jameshughes5722]

Or you know it's the government allowing labour laws to be smashed to protect company profits.

[@nellyandbert]

To say UK workers take 5 days to achieve what the french take 4 days to achieve is complete nonsense. It’s data for a specific demographic. Labour talking down the UK ability as always and favouring unions (their paymaster). Listen to Lord King he knows more than most mps and his successor!

[@stinkrat1016]

Did I just hear a union representative say to "get rid of the boring work" with the smile of a pleased ferret "let's get more satisfying work in there" hahahahaa yea go on let's do it guys, just like 3...2...1... wow, I feel the same.

[@harold4506]

No jobs for humans, and politicians deciding how much money ordinary people get to live on. What could possibly go wrong.

[@mayainactiveemail3986]

Why is this programme advocating taking away the power of the worker in the labour market to make us ''competitive''? edit : sp

[@clowncarqingdao]

It's not. Try again; press play.

[@mayainactiveemail3986]

@@clowncarqingdao I did finish it, you're right maybe not right at the end xD spoke too soon. But yh many of the guests in the beginning esp the free lancers were unrealistic

[@MrRRHHMM]

The bbc ''Where truth and integrity go to die''

[@michelebianchi7861]

How is this even a matter of discussion? Seems pretty obvious who the new feudal lords are

[@petergreen2552]

Thatcherism_ buy your house at sky high rates of interest,whilst holding down a job with no minimum earnings level and never going on strike for better conditions or wages for fear of unemployment. Inflation far higher in her time too so luxuries were indeed luxuries. The whole thing was a facade_ and she kept the UK tied to Europe fastidiously.

[@ddd-ly3rv]

Think the idea was seen through the idea of specific or transferable skills. Politicians could take on different portfolios, or take sabbaticals. But then in society they said get a degree, then they said get a GNVQ, then they didn't really say much after. If they haven't got good education policies makes sense they would just say, we don't really know what we're doing so looks like you just have to try get paid for whatever, but whatever that is who knows? So can't really think too much on contracts. They know the issue surrounds the enterprise model of capitalism Britain and America has, but we recovered a lot quick from the recession of 2008 than the rest of Europe, so how do base it as a model for change? In the mean time, they'll just keep telling you whatever at school not mentioning its actually really just pot luck. Think there's probably even a correlation between thinking what you'll get after school and what you do at school. The Chinese economy grows pretty quick, and all those Chinese kids love school. Here all you here is 1% this or half a percent that, and lets face it, no one really likes school that much. The economy is one of the things they are least fond of really mentioning, but have to. Like a crap relative. Them Chinese kids though hearing all that are raring to go. Can also kind of see it in our melancholy liberals, who had a good upbringing so got a better shot of just getting into a good position. Why be a liberal unless it wasn't all that hard? Chicken or the egg scenario. Exactly what is it they have faith in?

[@veggie42]

Who would enjoy school seen as a factory process? If we scrapped the GCSE (they don't do them in many countries same as the NHS isn't abroad) we should follow the International Baccalaureate. It's easier and with unit system with more tasks the young would enjoy it much more. Scrap National Curriculum it's too rigid

[@ddd-ly3rv]

Is there more flexibility in education abroad? Because that could mean that when they say employment is to rigid they could get more out of education?@@veggie42

[@radjew]

what is Mervin kings pension? Mega bucks. I am crying because he has no contract for the 30K speeches he is are giving.

[@veggie42]

I hate him he was so stupid in the crash blaming Darling. He should've blamed Brown for Privatising his job

[@WalkerSoc]

i thought the thumbnail said the 40 year B**ch

[@alanthorpe3640]

The governments are the problem with work. They have allowed themselves to be influenced by big businesses who have influenced state regulation to benefit them and prevent competition from smaller companies. Companies don’t like competition. It makes life difficult for them. But competition is what makes capitalism work for consumers. Governments and especially socialists don’t like this because it means they have to give their control of business and let competition determine who succeeds and who fails and governments should never subsidise any business. The power that governments have given to big business and especially banks makes it more difficult to start a business. Those complaining should be setting up their own businesses but the nanny state and unions all discourage risk taking.

[@Andizzyuk]

An actual BBC piece seeing Thatcher and neoliberalism in a bad light. We really are in unprecedented times

[@nigeljames6017]

As an comment open for comment :- I foresee even greater changes coming, and that is humans being totally (almost) replaced by automation. At the rate that robotic skills are being developed, it’ll only take a few more decades before just about all jobs that humans can do will be done faster and for less money by machines.

[@northwestcoast]

Nigel James that’s a good thing right?

[@nigeljames6017]

Leo S Well, it’s good in as much as it relieves the stress of heavy/arduous labor off mankind, but some form of compensation has to be found for those (i.e. just about everyone) out of work. This could quickly be generalized as communist/socialist, but I think the only solution is that everyone would be given a decent living wage generated from automation. If a person is satisfied with that, then they can sit on their butt all day and do nothing else. On the other hand, if others are willing to help society in various forms then their “wages” should be increased. Again, I’m not advocating anything, just seeing what other see as the path forward.

[@northwestcoast]

Nigel James Well put, nice to have an intelligent response on here for once. There often seems to be an assumption that if you don’t ‘work’ then you’re sitting on your backside all day. I don’t work, and I’m busier than I ever was when I was ‘working’, I believe that I contribute more unquantifiable good to society now that I have the time.

[@uthag.u.m.1795]

Cleaninng up Before Corbyn.

[@sleahcim4723]

For the working class it is about survival. These people obviously have a silver spoon in there mouth and don't care if they have work or not. Maybe none of them have worked a hard day in there lives. One where they get home and collapse from exhaustion or are mentally wiped out, eat, sleep, and repeat. When jobs get scarce, these people will appeal to socialism for society to care for them.

[@Belfreyite]

What mining communities wanted during very uncertain times was leadership from their government. What they got was a puinch in the face from an uncaring Bitch.

[@geralyndavid502]

Kate McKinnon at 1:03

[@davidedbrooke9324]

Old guard video.

[@JackJames2612]

No doubt Britain is on the precipice of a new age but we're rudderless due to the holy trinity of failure, weak government, weak opposition and partisan media. A healthy nation needs a strong government, strong opposition and a relentless media, all colliding in brutal conflict, that friction benefits the people. How can any of this be resolved when Brexit takes all the political oxygen. I'm not siding with Remain or Leave, I don't think the issue is an existential crisis like it's being portrayed as. Parliament just needs to push *_anything_* through so the engine of politics can actually start again.

[@Eo_Tunun]

My take on this is: Thatcherism was a temporary fix of the problems caused by structural changes in industry. A fix favourable for the companies and investors, that is. It's time is finally up, its flaws outweigh its very selective benefits to an extent that not only society, but even economy takes damage from it.

[@th8257]

Yup. No government has ever been able to address the real underlying problems of the British economy. Chronic underinvestment and poor levels of education and skills. Before Thatcher, governments tended to borrow money from abroad and tax highly to keep people in "fake" jobs by pumping subsidies into industries that were badly managed and had no future. Completely unsustainable. As Jim Callaghan said in 1976, Britain was living on borrowed money and borrowed time. Thatcher's approach was to smash those industries up with no idea what might replace them. Neither approach worked. What we need to do is not seek short term profits, and focus massively on improving education and skills. It will take many decades to make a meaningful change, and I think that's probably why no government has ever succeeded with it - they want short term results to win the next election.

[@russellaggus]

The fix was favourable towards international competitiveness, the industry was changing, foreign competition and price undercutting meant that if labour costs wernt reduced, you wouldve lost the industry increasing unemployment (decades before the industry inevitably declined)

[@finding_aether]

whether you love or hate her, it's almost half a decade, she's dead. we need to move on.

[@anonUK]

Hitler's dead. Should we forgive him and maybe allow a slide towards his policies if they seem to fit a particular social situation or offer an economic fix? *No*, they're both in Hell and their politics with them.

[@finding_aether]

@@anonUK dun forgive her all you want, but move on. Too many ppl let her define them. :/

[@mudchair16]

_Once the state admits the liceity of usurious contracts, state-sponsored usury insures that everyone, including the state itself, eventually gets saddled with unrepayable debt. With liquidity gone, the state allows the usurers (and the elected representatives they have put in office) to loot labor to pay off the usury burden. That means layoffs, reduced pay, outsourcing, pension fund looting , and all of the other methods that have created the anger and frustration behind the protests in Zuccotti Park [i.e., Occupy Wall Street]. This looting is, of course, to no avail because no force on earth can keep up with compound interest, which is the heart of usury._ :) Shalom

[@raziel3726]

Wheres Maggie when you need her!!

[@tezdiz9133]

Nothing's changed then

[@djtomoy]

Very smart of the conservatives to sell the working class brexit and nationisum over their own well-being 😂

[@dane21au]

My god really ???????????

[@patrickjohnstaunton1539]

Newsnight 1988, the message, the end of a job for life. Careful thought on this one, ignoring nouse. Base rationale tells me otherwise. Peoples sense of peace agen the ravage of expectation quantifies rather this speal. I’m not sure how helpful pandering is. There is though an unwritten lateral in this. The massage is very clear, that particular philosophy has over reached. Those children of the eighties reinforcing rather stabilising. The jack boot is 30 years old?

[@SingaporeSkaterSam]

Patrick john Staunton this comment is like a reverse Turing test

[@patrickjohnstaunton1539]

SingaporeSkater perspectives and persuasion.

[@JRHartley.]

Don't pay the TV tax.

[@Jack-fs2im]

I havent paid BBC licence for 3 years saved £450 spent on foid and heating,gives me pleasure think they are not getting my money

[@californiadreamin8423]

Well the economy of Grantham is screwed if we have a hard Brexit .....reliant on agriculture , they're going to learn all about poverty just like the industrial regions which were decimated by the policies of the grocers daughter. Still they do say, what goes around , comes around !! They'll have to follow Tebits advice and get on their bikes, and head to......Swindon . Now let's think....didn't Grantham and Swindon vote in favour of Brexit !! Wonder how many of them have abandoned UKIP for.....the manifesto promises of the Brexit party ? Anyone know what they are ?

[@jameswhiteley6843]

Well they’re not longer going to be part of the Common Agricultural Policy which benefits French farmers, heavily subsidised by the EU.

[@californiadreamin8423]

JAMES WHITELEY Does it really !! Then why does the National Farmers Union say that Brexit will be a disaster for the Farming industry ? And by the way I'm still waiting for evidence the last time you posted nonsense. Need reminding ?

[@Dear_Mr._Isaiah_Deringer]

@@californiadreamin8423 James isn't real. Don't engage.

[@californiadreamin8423]

Desmond Powell Because the predominant industry in and around Grantham is Agriculture, and Agriculture will be fully exposed to unregulated foreign competition ....the EU sets food standards , like it's dangerous to eat meat contaminated with mad cow disease !! I hate to use Michael Gove as evidence , because he is responsible for this Brexit fiasco, but he was canvassing recently for a "deal" Brexit because of the damage that can be caused to our Agriculture.

[@californiadreamin8423]

Desmond Powell I don't think that is what I said. I tried to explain that the food we eat has to reach certain standards of quality, to protect our health. That inevitably affects the price. I believe I mentioned mad cow disease which infected British beef, because the animal feed industry was deregulated ( by the Tory's surprise surprise ) and allowed to regulate itself. The cattle feed was made from the carcasses of sheep which were contaminated , and this contamination was not killed by the feed production process. So it spread to cattle, and then people. The EU banned British beef on the grounds that if the British government wanted to kill its citizens , it was their business , but they were not going to kill anyone else. The EU regulations saved lots of lives, but many died. Another example which now are learning about is the use of contaminated blood products needed to treat haemophilia .....how many have died from HIV and Hepatitis C....and successive governments covered this up. Regarding agriculture and Grantham , I'm sure the National Farmers Union and Michael Gove ....and 3 Blokes in a Pub , will present the case better than I can.

[@Lucianoarqueologia]

Market chains are based in a worldly mobile structure, the labor power is based on local or national politics. Workers need international power so they may compete.

[@kuribojim3916]

What does it mean for workers to have "international power"? Also, I'm not sure that point recognises the fact that national (and local) economies are all different. The challenges faced in the UK aren't completely identical to those faced in Japan, for example. I think what you need are policies at local, national, and international level - all three.

[@Lucianoarqueologia]

@@kuribojim3916 You are right. I am not disregarding local policies at all. I'm just saying that strong power in a local level is not enough because your country can end up isolated amidst world neoliberal capitalsm.

[@kuribojim3916]

​@@Lucianoarqueologia​I think the term "world neoliberal capitalism" is a red-herring though. It doesn't bear any strong relationship to the topic at hand. One thing that's clear from both Brexit and from other political developments across Europe is that there needs to be a balance - there's a sense of national and local politics that is really important to preserve for practical reasons if nothing else. But it's equally important - now more than ever - to maintain strong multilateral systems that keep countries working together and ensures their interests are aligned.

[@user-jo4yl5hq7l]

""Stop German Reunification or Europe will be destroyed AGAIN" - Thatcher and French President to Gorbachev. But Reagan could not understand😪 Thatcher was last Great British Prime Minister.

[@MaverickSeventySeven]

A very lame documentary with no real I sights whatsoever.

[@Anthony-wk9sb]

Best pm since Churchill

[@darrellandrick2552]

hahahaha

[@dane21au]

Soviet...

[@mitchio86]

maybe mass immigration affected the low wage job market

[@thepretendraver312]

Thatcher died in 2013 why didn’t her ideology die with her? Get rid of 2 party system!

[@artvandelay701]

They've gone from 80% to what 57% (?) in the last two years, in case you hadn't noticed. And May's conservative party are somewhere to the left of New Labour on many, many things. I'm not sure which part of your post makes less sense.

[@bim-ska-la-bim4433]

👎

[@rwc20071]

Greatest post war Prime Minister. Made tough and necessary decisions.

[@johnentwistle4695]

good one haha

[@BrianMcGuirkBMG]

Yes. She laid the groundwork for the banking crisis. Great one. Ha Ha. Theresa May might outdo her with Brexit.

[@danteshydratshirt2360]

work sucks

[@dinohermann1887]

Just look at Noizy, one of the most feared person in Southeast Woolwich (London)! He's chillin with his friends from the group "OTR" (On Top Of The Rest), and they make money without working, but with making rap music :) That's what I call a cool lifestyle! Screw work!

[@Mascherina1964]

Your present Conservative government stated after the 2016 Referemdum that it wanted to bring back the swashbuckling Victorian era. Well, that era is back, but both the good and the bad. Enjoy!

[@nellyandbert]

Young workers simply need to have default retirement ages reintroduced as an ageing workforce who are lacking the modern skills are hurting our economy and preventing younger employees being promoted and that I turn prevents new jobs being created. Older staff were valued and have done their bit but many work on for too long and that hurts the business.

[@veggie42]

Especially old celebrities who won't retire,acting is different you need older people in stories but not older presenters they could retire bar Attenborough he's knowledgeable.

[@veggie42]

Mary Berry making cakes that make people ill she should retire and let younger people make healthier dishes

[@alanthorpe3640]

Collette Post How would you judge Attenborough when you think algebra is stupid?