BBS02 vs BBSHD! How to Choose? Bafang Mid Drive EBike Conversion Kits Comparison

BBS02 750W Mid Drive Kit: amzn.to/3wudWv4
BBSHD 1000W Mid Drive Kit: lunacycle.com/bafang-bbshd-1000w-middrive-kit/
Justin on Endless Sphere forums talking about BBS02 / HD : endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/2019-motor-simulator-mid-drives-and-other-updates.100461/post-1470105

[@BlackWarriorLures]

I chose the BBS02 because it was 100% street legal. I love pedaling, so I chose the Jon Sully tune for people who like pedaling. I do a lot of off road with my recumbent trike. I rarely use throttle. The 02 is great for helping get to and maintain my ideal pedal cadence. Never had a problem with overheating because I'm pedaling all the time.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah the 02 is great 👍 it feels better than the HD for pedaling, that Q factor is a big deal. My 02 bike is rewarding to pedal, because you can push it just a little bit faster than when throttle only. So its rewarding to pedal and go faster. On the HD it doesn’t feel as good to pedal. Have to turn the power down and sometimes ride in a higher gear than is ideal for the motor. I agree if you ride it like a bike. And help pedal, the 02 will be just fine 👍 its just when ppl have it in the highest gear and go throttle only from a stop , up a hill, then the 02 can start having problems.

[@kindadim]

did you get the 02 or 02b?

[@BlackWarriorLures]

@@kindadim It was the 02B. They are all 02Bs by now.

[@kindadim]

@@BlackWarriorLures gotcha! and I'm pretty sure since the 02b took over, improvements were made to prevent overheating anyways, right?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Another thing is if you're a heavier person, or carrying cargo on your bike etc, it may be worth getting the HD. That's not to say the 02 can't do it, But the HD will do a better job and is probably a better experience

[@ivanpetrov2280]

There is 2 simple upgrades for Bbs02b who is worth it. First program the controller to use it's 25amps, instead of my stock 17amps. Also last week i check something else. Because i order another hd kit upgraded 52v 28amps..not 30. I test the 52v battery to my 02b. And have to say that the battery icrease my max rpm from 130 unloaded to 155rpm. When i ride it for a test it's spin to 130rpm with me , I am heavy at the moment 117kg 189cm. The HD i took have some upgrade it's not going like your stats 130-150rpm. Unloaden do 190rpm With me 180rpm in one of my gears. 30mph very easy.

[@RJHerb]

Hello EbikeBuilder, and thank you for the great informative video without the addition of loud obnoxious music or condescending attitudes! New sub here, I'll have plenty of questions for you coming up in the near future.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

hey mate! thanks for subscribing and the kind words, I appreciate that! I've been using these BBS 02 and HD motors for years now, feel free to shoot me a question anytime my friend!

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I get that a lot, about the music by the way, Lol I don't like adding music! its also one less choice i have to make and easier to edit the videos, Haha!

[@alex.copilu]

The bbshd stock controller, can be updated with a custom firmware which allows you to go up to 33A 👍🏻

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I’ve heard about people flashing different firmware onto the motors, that’s interesting. Anytime you get into messing around with firmware, i get wary though, Its sometimes possible to brick things if something goes wrong. Or disconnects while you are flashing it etc. 3 amps isn’t a huge difference where i would want to do that. Unless there’s some other features also. After i have got my Phaserunner smoothed out, it feels much better than the stock controller. I was just riding my stock bbs02, and i got on my 72v bbshd and its so much smoother. Even when i put my 72v bbshd on a 52v battery , still feels amazing but only goes about 30mph with the single speed gearing.

[@7547JAMES]

There's a vendor on eBay who sells modified controllers that can put out 60a if you so require,I'm going to get one when I can afford it.

[@alex.copilu]

@@7547JAMES after my Bac 855 got bricked, I put back on it the stock controller with the 33A and it’s still fine, but…I really miss that FW, and the high speed in the biggest cogs . I don’t want to spend again that amount of money on a BAC , but instead of it I ordered and it’s on its way a flipsky 75100 pro v2.0 to enjoy the bike as I am used to… I was thinking of that modded controller from Ebay, because I saw it too, but….I think an external one it’s far way superior and tuneable 👍🏻

[@ivanpetrov2280]

I saw same thing 60 amp for bbs02 and hd 😮😮​@@alex.copilu

[@uvwuvw-ol3fg]

There are rare reports that open source firmware makes the BBSHD throttle smoother. Seems like there is only slight jerkiness in 40t:51t gear while other gears are smoother according to initial testing. The pawls in the hub kept making snapping sound with the stock firmware despite start current being set to 1%.

[@lee-tx5mw]

i do like my bbshd even at 52v its perfect for city riding .although hub motors are smoother the snappiness of the bbshd is fun

[@8thsinner]

I'm currently look at the 02 for my new merida big 7,20 with a rack battery for long hauls and hills when I get there to camp, don't mind the pedaling thing, still want the rack for stealth and to put traction in the back wheels more, in combination with a sram 11-48 for the torque. but no idea what I need to check for compatibility, tools needed, battery options...etc

[@EBikeBuilder_]

main compatibility thing to check is that the motor can mount on the bike. If you google "bafangusadirect motor fitment template" they have this thing you can print out for the 02 or HD and then cut it out, and use it to measure the bikes bottom bracket and make sure it will clear the chainstays (both the motor, and the chainring). Thats helpful in getting the motor fitted. i will try to post a link to the fitment templates : intercom.help/bafangusadirect/en/articles/4649613-bbs02-bbshd-motor-fitment-templates As far as tools needed, have to remove the bikes bottom bracket (bike shop it, or there is a myriad of different tools for different bottom brackets), and there is a bafang wrench thats 2 ended for installing the lock nuts on the bottom bracket. Bike needs a JIS threaded bottom bracket, otherwise there are some adapters for other bottom brackets. 600C display is my favorite. Might need an "offset chainring" like Luna Eclipse 42T or Lekkie Blingring 42T to fix the chainline when you put the motor on. The motor offsets the chainline further away from the bike. So an offset chainring can bring the chain back to fix that. As far as battery goes, just dont buy the cheap ebay amazon ones. get it from somewhere proper. where they are good cells like Samsung Panasonic Molicel etc. Online vendors will lie and make those claims, then send you crappy cells

[@olegpetelevitch4443]

BBSHD 61 clicks throttle only heaps of torque ! 8 speed ! You only need 5 gears ! My 2 cents ! level 1,3.5 ! Mid drive have had it for 5 yrs no problems !

[@dennisowen9547]

I have a huffy 500 Watt cruiser hub drive bike bought on clearance added a HD motor to it it's a hill climb monster now

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah the HD is a monster 👹. It can be a great upgrade to a hub motor bike. Lots of acceleration and hill climbing ability.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Do you want to ride to work without getting sweaty? BBS HD

[@sel7245]

I use the 02 on my mountain bike and my cargo bike. Where I live its mostly flat.. But I would advice anyone to bring an extra chain (and tools) with you... My cargo bike is around 550 lbs fully loaded with me and a trailer. It has one gear. Top speed at level 1 about 8 mph at level 9 about 20 mph. At level 4 and around 13 mph I did run it for 30 min. without pedalling. Motor did not overheat... For not putting to much load on the chain. I always start at level one, trottle only. And only pushing it forward slowly... On my mountain bike I start at level 3-4 with slow trottle, and rarely change gears. Motor only ? have not tryed it yet for 30 min. But think 16-20 mph (flat and no wind) would be fine...The HD ?.. Do not have it. But I would have to be very, very carefull with assist level and trottle...

[@SarielSol]

I am thinking to buy one and can't decide. I have a 10 year old hardtail mountain bike. I live in a mountainous area but I want to use my bike on gravel roads, not on trails. I want to climb to beautiful spots, remote cabins, staff like that not so much for adrenaline rush crazy riding. I also want to ride to work about 12k daily without sweating, mostly flat with just a little climb. For 02B shifting a lot of gears and a little less power seems to be easier on the chain (all mechanical parts). Not necessarily a bad thing. I'm looking more for a reliable bike than a race bike. And I have no idea what battery to buy either.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

I have both. I love them equally, for different purposes. I disagree on 1 point, about not having to worry as much about climbing in top gear with the HD. I fried the stock controller climbing in high gear. It gave me an excuse to upgrade the controller so I'm not complaining but I'd suggest that you have to worry about gearing no matter which motor with the stock controllers. On the 02 I reduced the amps to 18 & set a speed limit of 20mph so I can, if I choose, just put it in 2nd gear and go WOT all day (hovering around 20 except on the steepest hills).

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah i agree, with either of these motors its important to be in the correct gear. The 02 can’t handle it, and it will be immediately obvious because the bike won’t be moving and the motor will sound and feel like its dying. Wheras the HD is more tolerant to that abuse, and can still get moving. In both cases that causes mechanical stress, and also increased heat like you mentioned. What’s silly Is 02 and HD have thermistors in them, but I’m not sure the stock controller uses the sensor (or has thermal rollback)

[@jonasan-san]

do you use an eggrider with your bbshd? I've been trying to decide between the phaserunner and bac 855 for mine but can't find a lot of info on how well the eggrider will work with a phaserunner.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

EggRider is a display thats meant to be used with the stock Bafang controllers, from what I understand. I don't think it would be easy to connect the EggRider to the Grin Tech controllers (or the BAC 855 either). It might be possible. but to what extent the EggRider features would work, I don't know. My guess is that since the eggrider has features that are very specific to stock bafang controller- its probably not fully compatible with other controllers. The EggRider itself is based on a different display, the SW102 or something, so theres probably different variants and versions of that display made for various bikes. I think the Sur Ron has a display thats similar.

[@dennisowen9547]

The 02 can also run a chainring adapter that use super cheap 104 rings down to 32 t.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

same with the HD. but the chainline offset with those smaller rings is crazy! If you want to run a tiny chainring like that, need to make sure you have a bike that can achieve a good chainline with such crazy offset. I think bikes that were designed to be 2x with front derailleur are probably ideal for running an 02 or HD with tiny small chain ring. But those chainring adapters are great!! I use one for my 72v bbshd in the rear , a Pinion P8200 that lets you put 104BCD rings on your cassette splines. Have to be very careful the chainring bolts are tight and blue loctite them. ANother benefit is 104 BCD chainrings are super cheap and easy to replace

[@sawarinekoilvile945]

Newer bbshd have a 28a controller. Even if branded 52v they are limited to 28a.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I’ve seen that with the 02 as well they can come set to 24A instead of 25A , etc. I’ve had vendors ask me if i want the 48v or 52v HD, and i think the difference is just a few amps. I thought the 52v one they lower the amps on the controller and then the 48V one remains 30A but I’m not sure you could be right, maybe they are all 28A now. I don’t see why it would matter much , maybe to increase reliability, I’m not sure, but i am running my HD in 72V and it can do a lot more than 1700w. Feels good around 2500w to 3500w

[@nicod974]

The HD makes more sense to me a mountains area, it would be much nicer if they had a 3kw nominal...

[@EBikeBuilder_]

In the endless sphere forums there was someone who said their high voltage bbshd was better than a cyclone 🌀 3000w nominal. So unless you get a really crazy mid drive like a QS motor , its probably hard to beat the HD

[@theokingshango]

what are you talking about, i dont have to pedal my BBSO2 at all, it pulls like a buck, watch for the wheelies, using just the throttle makes you go faster than is pleasant or clever for a bike. A beast🔥

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Depends on where and how you ride it , but if you are doing full throttle 25 amps non stop, it tends to build heat. It’s possible to throttle around but have to be conscious of the gear you’re in. The bbshd has like 60% more thermal mass and will build heat much slower. On my bbs02 even at full throttle it feels like i have to pedal the bike because i want to go faster. Its a good motor but its about 25 tops unless you’re pedaling or downhill

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@EBikeBuilder_ Depends on the bike. I have an 02 on a light POS that I stopped a speed test at 32mph & still accelerating. I wouldn't keep that up but it's anectodotal about top speed. Now set to 18 amps & 20mph I can go WOT without worrying. I prefer to pedal but my days of pedaling faster than 20 are a couple of decades behind me.

[@bassw1758]

I kinda like the 02 better on paper because 1300w is good on a trail bike with less weight, but I've heard the shd is worth the extra weight because it's more durable. What is your experience?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

If you are actually pedaling i kinda like the 02 , it isnt as wide and the Q factor feels better for pedaling. To pedal the HD you gotta turn the power down a bit. I suppose the HD is more durable i think the rotor was redesigned at some point and its like a bug fix on the 02 in some ways. If you’re really hard on it the HD for sure, but the 02 is a beast of a machine and it can take some hard riding as long as you have it in the right gear and help pedaling etc. Just don’t have it in a high gear from a stop, or trying to go up a crazy hill for minutes or something. Basically if you know how to shift the gears and ride it like a bike and pedal a bit, the 02 should be durable i think. Its a tough lil bugger. I’ve melted the wires on mine with the fake Anderson connectors and the stock controller Lol so maybe put an XT60 on the 02 instead. But other than that I’ve never broke anything on the 02. Its almost just as torquey as the HD at low speeds, the difference between the HD and 02 is probably minimal on trails. Its modeled in the grin motor simulator and very easy to compare 02 vs hd. I haven’t really broken anything in either of the motor, except when my sprag clutch was slipping but that was my fault and it wasn’t broken i just had to wipe it off. The one thing is the heat dissipation, apparently the 02 will generally begin to heat up beyond 600W where the HD can handle 1000W np. But each of them have temperature sensors inside of them by default so there is some extent of temperature protection built in stock, i believe

[@Barteo92]

Hi, Do you think there is a point to grease the NEW BBS02B before installing? I've heard that the manufacturer won't always take care of the right amount of grease and some recommend greasing before installation.... But I have also read opinions that it is unnecessary and that some who use their BBS02/B already several thousand miles and have not even looked inside :) Install and drive or maybe try to improve the factory though?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

They don’t usually put much moly grease on the secondary reduction gear, The big one with the plastic cover over it. You can take the 6 Phillips screws out of the plastic cover and smush some greease into the secondary reduction gear. That’s all you really have to do, because inside the motor they usually put a lot of white lithium grease

[@Barteo92]

@@EBikeBuilder_ I will, thanks for the quick reply :) For this gearbox I've heard that Mobilith SHC 100 (NLGI 2) will be good because it's miscible with the factory grease, (supposedly for bicycle engines it's even better than that aero Mobil 28).

[@paulmryglod4802]

Nice topic

[@EBikeBuilder_]

both good motors. The BBS02 is like an exercise machine, where you MUST pedal if you wanna go faster. It's rewarding in that way, where it encourages pedaling. And the Q factor is better, so the 02 feels better to pedal. But you are shifting gears on that 02 constantly buddy!! It can get tedious. Some times you don't feel like pedaling... the 02 is noticeably slower without pedaling. The user experience of the HD is easier- goes faster in each gear with less shifting, and is more tolerable to user error. Goes fast regardless of whether you are helping pedal. They are both great. the 02 is crazy cheap. If you start with an 02 kit, can swap out for an HD without changing much other than the chain ring. The HD is fun to upgrade 😈 not as much copper in the 02. so I dont think a 72v bbs02 would be as fun.

[@paulmryglod4802]

@EBikeBuilder_ I just finished a tongsheng 48v on a electra townie and yeah.... it's a pedal bike with the invisible hand of dad pushing you slightly along. Will throttle at 15-20 on flat ground. Absolutely low gear needed on any decent grade. After I rode it, I wished I went with the 02, but the torque sensor is nice, so meh. I am too used to high power now.

[@theokingshango]

Ive got a 9speed/gear hardtail and cant pedal at all while using the factory set throttle, stronger than my pedaling at any setting😎 also HD is stronger and has bigger sinks because it needs it, not to prove durability over bbso2. + it appeals to dudes that like to tear it up.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

The factory setting can vary but its designed to do 750w nominal and that tends to feel good for pedaling. I don’t think i would want the PAS doing 25 amps. In terms of durability the hd rotor is a lot better and the magnets won’t come unglued as they are inside the rotor. the HD has some bigger beefier parts in general. I like the 02 the cost is economical. I want to try the 02 on 72v i bet it would be great, maybe not for pedaling though. But apparently on 72v you can have the 02 do like 2600w

[@theokingshango]

im a noob for amps and watts unless its audio but for me the bbso2 speed is ample even with a smaller ring i got for the hills. So much so i cant feel or dont understand how pedal assist part works. My 1st gear/assist level (number on the screen) provides 50% power (factory set) and i never wish for more@@EBikeBuilder_

[@P_Five65]

i use a bbs02 for my second e bike build which i can hit about 30 mph with a 52v battery, now i bought a sur-ron because I don't want spend more time buying and upgrading a BBSHD to 72v :/

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Bbs02 is great, i like to use 52v for it also. 72v bbshd is fun. However it needs some field weakening to go fast, which results in some extra heat and energy usage. its stock form can’t deal with the heat well at higher sustained power levels. Have to do some modifications with heat sinks etc. The surron can probably run full throttle without much issues overheating. And its made for the power. Big chain, good suspension etc. It stands out though, i don’t think icould ride a sur ron on the streets without plates. My 72V bbshd build didn’t cost too much maybe 1500usd, without the cost of battery. I got the bike on a crazy sale. Bbshd motor only was 360$ , grin tech stuff was 550$, pinion p8200 was like 75$ , i am using cheap chainrings and 5$ chains, its like a poor man’s sur ron that hopefully won’t get impounded 😂🤣

[@P_Five65]

@uilder_ the only things is that I don't really trust the battery even tho UPP claims that their 72v battery is using LG cells I also put a 2 stroke engine on my bicycle and i modded to go about 40mph ( and LOUD ) and passing by cops wearing a slipper and no helmet and they did not care. I ride my surron ( segway x260 ) on the sidewalk and about 20mph cuz i need to save some range, I'm thinking of build my own 72v battery. Speaking of Segway they make electric mopeds but only available in the chinese market but they can be upgraded with a 72v 150AH battery with a motor that can push 10kw+. im think of getting one of them here but it seems pretty hard to get one of those here due to shipping and import taxes.

[@dennisowen9547]

That HD motor for 360 is that minus controller if not that's a killer price.​@@EBikeBuilder_

[@theokingshango]

Dont waste time on those, just buy a Rimac Nevera 😎while at it@@P_Five65

[@bobsoft]

@@P_Five65 There is a good vid on building your own Surron battery by "Coolwatts" called "SURRON DIY 80V / 29kW BATTERY BUILD - HOW-TO"

[@robertcochrane717]

30mph on a bike are you serious most bikes are not designed to do that speed I think you should just buy a motorcycle

[@lee-tx5mw]

😂😂😂 you should keep the flow of traffic .and most mtbs are happy cruising all dayup to 40 mph .they have hydraulic brakes strong wheels capable of hitting rocks at 30 mph off road .

[@0141star]

I have a powerful lmx p2 72volt capable of over 68mph current setup on mtb wheels and brakes its death no good even with regen slowing it down the components jist aint made for power ive since put betta forks on it and 19in mx wheels and brakes its a much different machine and can handle like a motorbike the mtn bike wheels and forks jist flex under load and i have marzochi ti fr fork and dh hoops top tier stuff it still cant cope or handle the power

[@travislandsman]

hint make yourself a script so you don't repeat each point 10 to 15 times