BTS vs. K-POP: a video essay

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any opinions expressed in the video are mine! feel free to share yours in the comments below! what's most important is that we have an informed and thoughtful conversation about these subjects.
note: the hollywood reporter stat about BTS' impact at the beginning of the video appears to be quite off-base, so keep that in mind while watching that section
video edited by Danae O.
animations by Danae O.
thumbnail artwork by Jameson: jaliousart
all music by elliot sang except for:
Jeopardy Theme - "Think!" by Merv Griffin - "Jeopardy" by Television's Greatest Hits Band
"Investigations" by Kevin MacLeod
much thanks to modooborahae, fatima farha, blaqbfly, cristina lai and danae o. (the GOAT) for helping me research and put this thing together!
correction: this is the seo taiji video used! • Seo Taiji & Boys - Hay...
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
1. The staggering value of K-pop band BTS
www.axios.com/... - BTS’ contribution to the South Korean GDP
2. K-Pop is Not a Genre by T.K. Park
askakorean.blog... - TK Park’s opinion piece
3. Is K-Pop a Genre? Yes. Yes It Is by Lizzie Parker
beyondhallyu.co... - Lizzie Parker’s response
4. What is the K in K-Pop? By John Lie
www.academia.e... - this was heavily used during the history of Korean music portion.
5. How BTS Succeeded Where Other Boy Bands Couldn’t, by T.K. Park and Youngdae Kim
www.vulture.co... - cited and used in the third section
6. WHAT IS MUSICAL GENRE EXACTLY? By Jack Denton
psmag.com/soci... - used in the first section. Deep dive into genre categorization.
7. BTS Pre-debut History 2010-2013 (Part 1) by Baepsayed / bts_predebut_history_2... - goes over the history of BTS’ formation before debut, used largely in section 2
8. Here’s What RM Was Doing As “Runch Randa” Before He Joined BTS
www.koreaboo.c... - goes over RM pre-debut, also used in section 2
9. Korean Pop Culture’s New Catchphrase (‘Gangnam Style’ and ‘The Thieves’ show Koreans aren’t so serious after all Fun)
archive.today/... - article about PSY used in section 1
10. Past, Present and Future of Hallyu (Korean Wave) www.aijcrnet.co... - used in section 1
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[@DesmondaCathabel]

This feels like a better intro to BTS than every BTS intro video ever

[@ElwoodShort]

I would agree with that, this deals with most of the issues of definition very well. yes they are ‘Kpop’, but ‘Kpop’ is clearly a much more expansive definition than is widely assumed. BTS could equally be described as world music or fusion music, or of course pop music. I think Asian fusion hip hop would work as well. Probably fair to say that, Kpop is one definition for BTS, but certainly not the only one.

[@purpleglasses4511]

we should request this video first before the intro to BTS one bc this gives sooo much more context tbh

[@purpleglasses4511]

@ANNA M ROMEO nice. treat it like a movie night, eat snacks with it or smth. enjoy those 30 mins!

[@daeguboy8136]

I agree 100%

[@ginelle7]

Agreed 💜

[@nausicaa1442]

You are the most qualified to interview BTS honestly. Finally a rational person who would ask other questions than just ''What's your favorite food?''

[@jezzarte3587]

Lila Free this!!!!!

[@chanellh]

Lila Free omg yes!

[@JaxB93]

YES!!!!

[@hadassah6563]

But I have to knoooow Does jhope like hamburgers??? I'm still not sure😖😖😖 Lol

[@hadassah6563]

@@TheNinjutsuAlchemist ikr. I mean, how r we supposed to know??? No one ever asks the important questions😔

[@msl1689]

I think Namjoon would approve of this video.

[@esilenna8716]

I hope he could see that video some day

[@BeAG00dHuman]

I had the same thought. lols I imagined Namjoon saying this when asked to give a 30mins talk on kpop

[@saraszabo7749]

Yes

[@ayeshamohammed6414]

So does our Yoongi 💜🤗

[@celialusma4618]

Lol a 30 minutes essay the president would approved hahhah

[@rvermillion8188]

Screw it, I'm attending this 30 minutes TED talk.

[@marinal.]

haha

[@Thethingummything]

Exactly what went through my head before clicking this

[@parushapradhan7570]

Can we start recommending this to reactors and linking this everywhere? Guys? Can we all like unite somehow and make this viral.

[@-amel-9896]

YES YES YES

[@곤고-w3f]

Agree

[@jocelyn9744]

Absolutely!

[@nepenthe_1610]

I support multiple fandoms stop the hate yes pls!

[@luciagutierrez7879]

Okey👌

[@ronlim20]

Everybody's already complimented this for its depth and excellent research so I will just say that I LAUGHED at the height difference between stick figure Namjoon and stick figure Yoongi

[@monimuppet6132]

Me too!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@nevaladder]

Plus, Yoongi looked morose and Namjoon still had his dimples. 😂

[@simplymarvelousliving]

And the dimples 😂

[@LillianOglethorpe]

I echo every comment here!! And honestly, I loved the entire video but that was my favorite bit.

[@ll-vk2nm]

Me too tho 😂😂😭

[@vanessaives40]

I sometimes view BTS as a representation of modern trends: (self) acceptance, team work, multiculturalism, respect, intelligence, uniqueness, hard work, rise of social networks. They really brought together western individual-oriented and eastern community-oriented values in a very unexpected way. The group created a little bit of chaos in strict hierarchical structure of Confucian Korea AND among big international corporations. I can't even imagine the whole picture of their impact on or meaning for culture and society. Even the guys are confused haha. Btw, loved the cartoon story of pdogg, sleepy and bang-pd interaction xd

[@mounther7881]

Intelligence?

[@renelynfuentes7958]

@@mounther7881, BTS songs inspires in so many books and BTS members always recommend books to fans to read.

[@RyubearSaysGao]

Confucian Korea...sorry but, that's just complete and utter bullshit. At this moment in time, Korea is as capitalist of a country as it gets. Confucianism died in China when Mao Zedong began his uprise, and never quite resurfaced. You're delusional if you try to somehow romanticize Korea as a Confucian country.

[@classyrichwise]

@@RyubearSaysGao he's not saying it is. He's saying their history were heavily influenced with it/ derived from it

[@sarasaeed6349]

南雲Haruya he literally said they still carry some confucian ideals in the culture not that the country as a whole is still confucian, and where is the romanticisation??? you’re confused

[@michaellacaballes937]

THE WAY YOU NARRATED THEIR NAMJOON CASTING DSGHJDHG

[@chelseadgafx3]

I'm cackling.

[@ban_ana_bread]

I laughed way too hard 😂😂🤣

[@zbrewed]

“They represent a new horizon.” I like what you said here.

[@felixx3642]

Your analysis of BTS - Kpop it's better than many journalist who has the privilege of write to famous newspapers n sites with a lot of influence

[@forg_tful.]

it should be said that the only reason armys try to distinctly separate bts from kpop is exactly the stigma and bad reputation the genre has with the general public and the negative tags connected to it that immediately get stuck to bts as well. that's the takeaway of this video. thank you! (i'd like to add the added factor of other kpop fandoms trashing bts continuously as well)

[@Maria-ir1wq]

Kat and because kpop fandoms hate bts and they drag them with lies and get 17k likes every week

[@bbygang]

yess and soon i'll be aiming to tackle that very stigma and bad reputation as well because much of it is unfair! but thank you for this! i'm glad you took that away from this video as i intended

[@forg_tful.]

@@Maria-ir1wq oh i know, i'm on army twitter. army independence day is a thing.

[@Maria.S9]

So you think it's preferable to separate BTS from what they are, because some people are racist and prejudiced towards a genre just because it's from an Asian country? Instead of sticking up for it and properly promoting its good sides, while acknowledging the existence of its bad sides (bad sides, not necessarily the exact same ones in their entirety, that exist in the American showbiz too)?

[@forg_tful.]

@@Maria.S9 not just the racism. other kpop stans continuously ridicule the guys to this day and that is a major part of it as well. we don't want to be associated with them.

[@zagubionemysli]

I got into BTS because of Wings. I was really impressed with the artistry of the album that is not present in the works of many western artists. I don't think that BTS is inferior in any way to popular artists of today. I think they work harder.

[@laila1752]

they r superior. lol

[@kotasriveni7914]

Me : I stan bts Them : y? Me : maybe u should listen to pied piper!!

[@laceratedbythumbtacks]

wings was also what got me into them. that album is superior and nothing could ever top it, for me at least.

[@carinapena1589]

I honestly think that BTS is kpop but way more than that.

[@ilikehatecommentsmorethann5825]

Pls watch The rise of bangtan docu-series

[@mahikamihan]

this is amazing, entertaining, and so well-researched. also, i love how you draw namjoon as super tall in 15:07

[@bbygang]

that's Danae's work!

[@renoirrr]

Imagine soobin 😳

[@ayy_yo6619]

I laughed when I saw that.

[@papsgirl0000]

​@@renoirrrsoobin's never gonna fit in the screen 😂

[@michelle5900]

"We are very easygoing when it comes to classifying other people when they come from other regions but not recognizing that we are regional artists ourselves" 24:51

[@ksb9469]

Tablo is extremely smart and graduated with his Master's Degree in just a few months. Haters tried to destroy him by spreading rumors that he didn't.

[@layloo5244]

SK Angel its honestly so sad what happened to him. He lost his dad because of this.

[@xjpnfanx]

tru, he was even scared of loosing his daughter but his badass 9 month in labor pregnant wife drove herself to the hospital.

[@savannahnoname3250]

@@xjpnfanx what happened to him? I hope he’s okay🥺 (along with the rest of his family, of course)

[@Sam_70]

Fck blinks

[@ksb9469]

@@Sam_70 Why? They just as good.

[@ruthlessrays9761]

Journalists need to know the difference between BTS being a KPOP group and KPOP is not the whole BTS. If BTS win a particular award in the west, it's only a win for BTS & ARMY and not the whole kpop industry.

[@slimeboy5626]

Their good as a group. Nothing more.

[@banabelle]

exactly

[@dragonrj1233]

@@slimeboy5626 yeah BTS is unique 💯

[@notificationoffbark.5089]

exactly !

[@notificationoffbark.5089]

i don't see ariana winning award makes pop Industry success like?? it her time only to shine same to bts

[@btsjiminface]

A few of my friends used to be into kpop when they were teenagers. I was never into kpop, but now I am a fan of BTS. Whenever I speak about BTS, these friends have this unshakeable image of kpop. They feel that they know everything about BTS because they used to be a fan of kpop. They feel that they are no longer kpop fans and never want to go back to that part of their lives again. They have no idea how different BTS is different from those kpop groups they stanned back then, and they have lots of negative preconceptions of BTS because of that.

[@janejung7439]

I have similar experiences as some of my friends and siblings view kpop and BTS in that way--negative preconceptions are so difficult to break down. To break down why BTS is different, the person has to be willing to sit down for this deep conversation but most wouldn't because they don't take it seriously. Then they carry along their day continuing to believe they have the right idea...🤷‍♀️for those people, I take their actions with a grain of salt.

[@Ganhiwa]

They way you describe them gives me the feeling like they are the kinds of ppl that label BTS as 'just kpop' without bothering to look deeper. You know, the kind that makes degrading jokes and sometimes halfway racist remarks and when you get angry says stuff like: 'chill man, don't take it so seriously, it's just kpop'. The irony here is BTS talking about anxiety, self harm, suicide, domestic abuse, bullying, opression, self love and self hatered ++, and then ppl say it's just kpop... Some of these topics are pretty darn important and should not be dismissed.

[@denzelwenzel]

@@emilys2562 Maybe they have alot of great Qualitis, outside of their relationship with BTS....

[@denzelwenzel]

@@elsaz2673 But is that a good thing? The whole BTS saving peoples lives? It's definitely impressive, that music non Korean spearkers will never fully understand, can have that kinda emotional impact on people....i just dont know if it's healthy. This of course have nothing to do with boys themselves. more a comment on fandom culture i guess

[@annikastephan]

@@janejung7439 I'm not trying to be rude but generally curious as a person that likes many different groups and artist and finds that most of them are equally talented, what makes bts "different" ? (like in your comment above)

[@DisneyxFan1]

when you said the people categorizing bts as kpop isnt the problem, its that that is the ONLY thing people choose to categorize them by, omg.. exactly. the k-industry is FULL of talented people, we dont want to completely separate them for it like ?? like you said, they have created a new horizon of kpop and we just want bts to be seen as such creators and more. people (especially fans of other k-pop fandoms) love to give past generations credit for things theyve achieved but dont want to give bts theirs and even tries to strip said achivements away from bts. its just not fair and we want that for them like they deserve.

[@me9981]

That's not true. Normal people who are fans of other groups or other groups and BTS don't discredit BTS' success. They just want ARMYs to understand that success of kpop is not only on BTS. Of course there are those annoying ones who discredit BTS too but like...that's kpop for you. Kpop has a lot of crazy fans. I'm a fan of a lot of groups from all 3 generations and let me tell you something - all 3 gens have groups that did a lot for kpop. Seo Taiji was one of the first kpop groups. SM created kpop trainee system (sadly). TVXQ and BoA did a lot in Japan. Shinee made dance practices what they are today and because of them people take kpop dancers more seriously. And don't even let me started with SNSD, Wonder Girls and Twice. Big Bang created lightsticks, they were huge and crazy famous and and they also had a similar path as BTS did (came from the bottom). EXO and SuJu still sell crazy amounts of albums even though they are not as big as BTS anymore. And then came BTS and made so much achievements that no one should discredit and now it's their time. Many groups did a lot for kpop and each of them lived and thrived in their own time. That's the thing many kpop fans try to explain to ARMYs you know...

[@bandotaku]

@@me9981 This, all of this!

[@melonlord2173]

@@me9981 Shout it for the people at the back! Like, op said that armies don't actually want bts separated from kpop but there definitely are some that do. There are many kpop fans that like to discredit bts and reduce their achievements but there are also armies that refuse to accept that other kpop groups have been successful. We are all complicit in hate culture, every group has been attacked by stans of other fandoms and every fandom has attacked another group for no reason before.

[@me9981]

@@melonlord2173 Omg I love your comment! It's perfect! I have this one friend who told me that BTS transcends music. I was like - no, we all have different music tastes and that's it lmao. I love her to death but when it comes to music our rule is 'we don't talk about BTS when we're together ' lmao. I'm a big fan too but she's like....she needs to chill and leave people to have their own opinions. That's why I commented that. I always want to be polite and explain to people how the other side feels. Other side being people who listen to BTS and other kpop groups too.

[@taetae678]

@@me9981 can I say don't say worldwide say America in my Continent the first kpop group to be heard is BTS paving the way is not making genres of course that's black artists thing paving the way meant seeing beyond psy was called chinese in our continent but after bts everyone was surprised there was a country called korea its not about popularity its about impact some groups could have never got the chance like they have now

[@HarunaMaurer]

Also want to point out how incoherent the media is: They categorize BTS in Kpop to minimize their efforts and attribute their success to this industry/genre, but then also you see headlines that link the raise of the Kpop industry thanks to BTS and how it is taking over. Is it really that difficult to see that BTS came from a small company, so they had no privilege like big companies and them taking over the world doesn't meant the whole Kpop industry will too???

[@YassinAdam]

Awesome video bro^^

[@bbygang]

KING!

[@yoongiswife6173]

I see you everywhere. Amazing.

[@robynfenty3626]

are you that adam from twitter

[@amirantogo9595]

Adam you here 🥰💜

[@taesmile.]

are u the adam of twitter?

[@alexandralee138]

"Or don't be nice. F**k it, I can take it". So you're intelligent, measured AND brave? Elliot, you're seriously making me regret my entire dating history, istg. On a more serious note though, I'm very, very interested in this topic. Western media's embarrassing coverage of BTS, that is. I had to quit twitter some time before I became army (the toxic, inescapable talk of politics was legit giving me anxiety issues) so many of the most offending articles and reports never came to my attention. That infamous Hollywood Reporter article even you quote was actually the first piece from a non-kpop oriented source I ever read in its entirety. I was offended on so many levels (mainly by the unapologetic lack of professionalism from someone who calls himself a journalist) that I did some reasearch and stumbled upon a talk by philosophy professor Jiyoung Lee. She gets invited to talk in a lot of places because she wrote a book about BTS, I'm sure you must've heard about it. Prof. Lee was highlighting the way army responds to this kind of articles; screenshoot and distribute them in social media so that the bulk of army doesn't have to click on them and give them views. But while prof. Lee finds this way of fighting prejudice in western media fascinating (and it is), I couldn't help but think that it wasn't nearly enough. This kind of lazy, unfair and ingorant reporting needs to be called out and boycotted, sure, but there also needs to be more availability of quality content that analyzes the BTS phenomenon in a more serious, less mocking way. Such a huge portion of western mainstream media haven't remotely clued in on the fact that BTS is not just a fad. It's embarrasing, predictable, but embarrassing. I'm with you, we're going to be discussing BTS for a long while. And kpop too. Kpop is indeed a part of them, as they themselves acknowledge, so an honest, serious examination of kpop is necessary. Even if some armys would prefer to disassociate BTS from that label. My point is, you're putting out the kind of content that's needed in this conversation. Please, keep it coming!

[@dnikkithatsame5990]

So true. I grew up in the 90s, reading Rolling Stone Magazines that gave “legitimacy” to new artists through thoughtful reporting on them. I’ve been waiting for that a-ha moment with BTS. The moment when the members are asked about song creation ... shit, about choreography. But it’s seems right now no one is doing that article and as per usual, 15 years later, when someone gets around to it, there will be all this backpedaling about how they new how important these artists were.

[@therearenogirlsontheinternet_]

What do you think of BTS performing in Saudi Arabia?

[@sarahbts4592]

@@therearenogirlsontheinternet_ what about bts performing in saudi arabia???

[@eileencritchley4630]

@@therearenogirlsontheinternet_ I think good for the fans in Saudi Arabia why should they be discriminated against, told they can't see BTS perform in their country. The people of Saudi Arabia should be able to hear the powerful message BTS sing and Rapp about, just like anyone else.

[@snowhibiscus]

I guess that's why I call myself a BTS fan yet not really a Kpop fan. I do see a difference between BTS and other Kpop artists. I've been around the scene since Shinhwa and Rain yet BTS pulls me in more. Never been the crazed fan before but starting now at my age and with BTS, I surprised myself too. Love your video, you show your true journalism by the homework you did.

[@zzzz44400]

Me too.

[@anuradhachaudhuri7314]

You speak facts sis

[@jins7633]

@@zzzz44400 lol me too... people ask me if I’m kpop fan and I say, no, I’m a BTS fan 😂

[@butterfly1649]

Trueee... I had seen some of Kpop videos also (second gen) but I only got more connected and hooked with Bangtan.

[@ilikehatecommentsmorethann5825]

Pls watch The rise of bangtan docu-series

[@megmug8288]

20:35 "When you simply label BTS as a Kpop group, or as a boyband, and then paint their fanbase as sex-crazed young women whose attraction to the group stems from physical attraction and general excitement and hysteria, you not only are sort of painting a bad image about young women in general and their tastes, but you're also missing a key component of why the group is successful." THANK YOU! As an aroace, people are always shocked to find out that I love BTS. They just can't wrap their brains around the fact that I enjoy them without feeling any physical or sexual attraction to them. I'm not here because they're pretty (although they definitely are). I'm here for their personalities, their music, their messages, their unapologetic way of being entirely themselves. They encourage me to love myself and to also be unabashedly myself. Plus their music just sounds nice, there's no denying it. Find me seven more talented people, I dare you.

[@qabasalkharusi]

exactly im aroace too!

[@mamejoe2043]

Find me seven more talented people 💜💜💜💜💜facts. BTS saved me and because of their music I keep going

[@Peertje304]

I'm aroace too! I recently discovered Taemin (i like learning about other artists in the industry hence I'm watching this video) and i'm bracing myself for whatever reactions i'll receive from random people in my life 👁👄👁

[@ylee442]

This is seriously the best thing ive seen that explains kpop/idol music...and this is coming from a korean. Kudos to you. It was well researched and to the point. Everyone needs to watch this...esp some of these kpop writers.

[@RN_2000]

Idk why ppl still fight over this didn’t RM himself said that in N.O intro “ the revolution just started again “ , they are kind of revolutionary movement that changing the kpop scene so rather than separating them just think of it as the changing point of kpop , but again tbh even tho there’s some kind of change they made like the concepts rookies groups have now is revolves around self-acceptance/love and such , I’m afraid that those companies gonna present those concepts so poorly that ppl would get tired of them so rather than a revolutionary movement that makes improvements to the industry bts will be just a one kind revolutionary group that’s ppl will forever try to copycat, i think i just mixed two point into one but Idc

[@yel5783]

YES EXACTLY!!! finally an intellectual

[@anzalaaiman9971]

So true :/

[@sezmonsta3229]

Fr tho anything associated with young women will get trashed on 👀

[@elscullens]

I also believe that critics think that [dance = girly stuff = silly empty fad]. I can elaborate. The "dance" part of BTS is one of the main factors that made the media diminish them and Kpop in general, (the fact that they dance AND make music you can dance to). I'm assuming that the majority of music critics and media magazine editors are male and althought they work with music, they don't "like to dance". I don't see them saiyng to themselves: "what a long week, I NEED to hit the dancefloor to decompress". But females love dancing and many artist that start catering to that experience change their style and suddenly critics "can" like them. I'm summoning the classics, Elvis started hip-dancing his way to female hearts and won over critics with time with more "serious" stuff. First Beatles, the 60's Beach Boys live recordings that are drowned by female screams, that Funk music is superior to Disco (that is easier to dance than, let's say, Prince), and all the "lets kill disco" thing that happened July 12, 1979, the fact that House music started in Chicago, died in the US, but is still thriving in Europe, all the hate EDM gets from the media in the US and how they are crazy for it to go away... Maybe they grew up in the 90's and the death of their beloved Grunge by Britney and the rest of the overproduced dancing boys is something they are still traumatized about. Anyhow, the dance part in BTS is not going anywhere, it is incredibly important. Kpop was conceived as an international export and the korean language barrier was instantly broken by dance. Seo Taiji and the Boys understood this perfectly.

[@AlexaOleksa]

I like Suga's description of Kpop that it is an integrated content that contains: music, performance, makeup, visual, and amalgamated visual-auditorial content

[@muyou6589]

I feel kpop is like the anime of Korea, in the sense that they're defined in a different way in western countries. They basically have the same dilemma, for example: Is "Avatar: The Last Airbender" an anime? Is EXP edition a kpop group? Some will say: no, they were not created in Japan/Korea. Some others will say: yes, they have the same vibe. But that only matters to westerners because for Koreans, they don't have a distinction between pop and Kpop, for them kpop is simply pop (yeah, I don't know how to explain this part clearly). Right now kpop for them is more like what foreigners like, rather than Korean pop (aka the music that Korean people like). The same happens to anime, for Japanese people every kind of animation is anime, even Disney movies. However, they still can understand the kind of animation western people refer to when they say anime.

[@TiinkerBells]

Koreans do have a distinction between kpop (idol) music and regular pop music though.

[@yel5783]

I feel like fans saying bts is not kpop is like saying "naruto is not an anime". I can't believe how many people here hates kpop but loves bts like...same thing as "i hate anime but i love naruto🙄"

[@muyou6589]

@@TiinkerBells This is the part that was hard for me to explain😅 Yes, I agree, they consider kpop equal to idol music, but they haven't really used the term "kpop" to be an equivalent until recently, when the hallyu thing got bigger, and it gained more international attention. So, I feel like the term "kpop" is a imported foreign word that was first used outside of South Korea to define music from there. Kpop has lost it's literal meaning of "Korean popular music", and changed into something like "Korean music that foreigners like which just happened to be idol music". In the end, foreigners are the ones that feel the need to define/defend it, not them.

[@muyou6589]

@@yel5783 I think you CAN'T say that BTS isn't kpop in the sense of music from Korea, or even in the sense of boy band music from Korea. However, you can perfectly like them, but not the whole kpop thing because of whatever reasons. Kpop is getting bigger, and there are different groups with different characteristics and concepts. Most of them might just not be your cup of tea, and the industry indeed has some pretty toxic/dark stuff.

[@deen_771]

@@yel5783 PERIOD

[@ThemperorZir]

Every journalist who writes about BTS should have to watch this.

[@natalyab5055]

Very interesting video! Thank you. And that very realistic depiction of the argument between Bang PD and Pdogg over RM made my day!

[@namu7868]

Perfect representation of what really Kpop and BTS are. It's time for people to see the artists as artists not just part of genre/industry/institution

[@Meeekuuuu]

My friends are big Kpop fans and they stan so many groups which isn’t a bad thing but they tget annoyed that im only an army. Whenever i say Bts are different to me they say that I’ve never heard other groups. Im serious when i say I’ve heard about every Kpop group. Txt, twice, bp, big bang, svt, skz, monsta x, got7, RV, 2ne1, enhyphen, mcnd and way more. And I haven’t just heard the title tracks. No groups appeals to me other than bts. Im not hating on other groups but BTS are the only group i love in the matter if unique lyrics, personality, music, content and more. Its not that I haven’t given other groups a chance, they just don’t click with me. BTS are something else

[@strawberry_buns]

same I feel like my standards raised to high after staning Bts xd they’re really different from other groups. I gave other idol groups a try but I just ended up casually listen to their songs and nothing really more, no one got me like Bts 😂

[@00lilsunshine]

Its weird how a lot of people have the same sentiment because I feel the same way too

[@Meeekuuuu]

@@strawberry_buns i completely agree, it's not a bad thing to stan a small amount of groups because for some people only 1 group fits their standards and bts raised mine to the point i cant stan other groups

[@Meeekuuuu]

@@00lilsunshine yup

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

@@strawberry_buns for me it’s the opposite. I used to be a huge army but got tired of them and moved on to other groups

[@ParallaxHearts]

Amazing video!! I remember becoming friends with a South Korean transfer student in middle school, MANY years ago, and she introduced me me to H.O.T. No one in America called it "Kpop" back then, as almost nobody here knew about them. To see the change today, where it's normal to like BTS in America - that was a huge amount of growth in a very short time. So proud. For me, the only time it's irritating to hear BTS lumped into the American idea of "Kpop" is when the conversation is about the abuse, plastic surgery, suicide, etc. Some people use that to attack fans of groups that don't fit the mold, or these tabloid buzzwords.

[@samantha4638]

I was really hesitant to approach this every time you would tweet about it coming out soon but this is a perfect explainer! Great job Elliot!! Thanks for really taking the time to actually go through all the nuances so many people often miss (even actual ARMY). Now we just need more media reps to see it.

[@caperclaw]

K-Pop is to music as anime is to animation. Both are just words used in the West to segregate it and devalue it. It brings to mind a certain set of idea/themes/stereotypes/etc but both are deep and vast oceans of expression. This is an excellent breakdown of both K-Pop and BTS and will be recommended.

[@notaspeck6104]

Anime is literally the Japanese word for animation. Chill tf out.

[@astrawwberri]

@@notaspeck6104When people hear the word ‘anime’, they don’t think of Japanese animation as a whole, but the cringey over sexualised badly written and infantilising animations that are made by Japan. Nobody but the anime community even cares to recognise that animes refer to all animated films in Japan and not just that one stereotype of it. Not saying that that stereotype is untrue but it is untrue when used to generalise the whole anime industry

[@Ahjusshi_Brown]

Oh Jesus not that “kpop college” guy/clip again 🤦‍♀️😭 the war flashbacks are intense rn 😭😭😂

[@phoenix8854]

I was trying to be very serious about the kpop history then BangPD and Pdogg came up. But wow. This is very interesting and informative.

[@rmtakhe6398]

I always find it hard to understand people's expression when they ask me Iam a Kpop fan and then I go 'no, IAM BTS fan'. It's clear as day what makes BTS different for me but I guess once you have a name for a genre it's hard to leave out the unique for most people.

[@denzelwenzel]

So what do think makes them different? Cause they obviously differ in some ways, i just dont see the differences as being impactfull enough, to warrant this distinction

[@denissegp91]

@@denzelwenzel Well that depends on the perspective of each person, what you find different doesn't mean that other people find it different. For you there is not much difference between BTS and the other groups out there, but this person (and many other Armys) saw something different in them that makes them only like BTS and not kpop in general.

[@denzelwenzel]

@@denissegp91 Yeah I get that. Musically BTS is my favorite group. And their world building through videos and short films is really cool! But there are groups with similar concepts, and lyrical content. So I ask again, what makes BTS fundamentally different enough, to separate them from k-pop?

[@denissegp91]

@@denzelwenzel That also depends on the definition that everyone has of kpop. in my opinion, I think it's a definition that fits in them, but I also think it's unfair to typecast them just for that (like many other artists, but here we're talking about BTS) besides they've mentioned that they don't want to be just labeled as kpop. This person considers himself only a BTS fan and not Kpop fan, because doesn't really like all kpop and that's fine. Many people get angry or offended when Armys mention that they only like BTS and not kpop, because they have the idea that if you like a kpop group (in this case BTS) you have to like other groups or be a fan of kpop, when it is not. For example, I like some clasic music songs but because I like these songs doesn't mean I'm a fan of the genre or because I like Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi doesn't mean I like all Japanese animated movies. There are times when an artist, song or movie like it even if it's not what you usually hear or see. I know some Armys say it in an offending way, but the majority don't say it with the intention of doing less to other groups or thinking that BTS is not kpop. It's a personal decision to consider BTS kpop or not, as long as they don't offend anyone I don't see any problem.

[@eileencritchley4630]

@@denzelwenzel The fact they have complete creative freedom. They don't follow the rules that other kpop groups have to follow eg they do as they please hence all 7 of them having at least one tattoo. Jungkook being the member who show's his off with Jimin some times showing his off on stage. That's not only a taboo in Korean society it's a big no no in kpop. Their Rappers are real Rappers not 'Idol' Rappers even Idol Rappers themselves have said that BTS are real Rappers not Idol Rappers. Yes they have a foot in kpop in that's they used a modified training system, they get attend, perform, win all the major kpop awards and they dance. They have one foot in the kpop industry but they are also on the fringe of the kpop industry. They are also global artists mainstream artists, they are Song Writers, Composers, Producers, vocalists and Rappers.

[@VenusAD]

This is one of the best pieces on Bangtan I've ever seen. As an ARMY since before they blew up, it's been hard to see Western media undercut their individuality and how they've had to work even harder than better funded idols in the industry. The worst part is when they demean the fans and paint us all as young teenage girls only interested in their looks and flashy moves, ugh. Anyway, excellent work! I'm sharing this everywhere. Also can I just say that the animated section was great lol, and I appreciate the little mention of Seventeen, who indeed are also a unique group that puts a ton of their own creative process into their work and does much of their own writing and producing. Again, great job!

[@lemplatinum]

I think the conclusion is that yes, BTS is k-pop but k-pop is a hard thing to describe and doesn’t fit in really any category, same with BTS but in a way BTS is more things than just k-pop

[@svogel6459]

what bothers me so much about this entire "kpop is popular korean music!!!!!" argument is that a lot of so-called kpop groups... aren't popular at all. But no one would think of not calling them a kpop group bc of it. Obviously the categorization works on other factors but for bts people suddenly pretend that it doesn't :-/

[@JohnLee-kn9ii]

I don't think 'popular music' means that the groups are popular... It just means that the style of music in general is popular in Korea.

[@burningshadows01]

This is a very well though out, laid out video essay and I appreciate how much effort you put into everything. Unfortunately my comment is probably going to be long, rambling and all over the place and I am so sorry in advance about that! I think I agree with others who talk about how people call BTS K-pop in a very dismissive way or treat the fact that they are a group of men who sing/rap/dance as being 'just another boy band/group'. One example I can think of is when they did their UN speech there was an anchor man who basically made fun of them on the news, he acted flabbergasted that BTS would not only be allowed to speak at the UN but be asked to and listened to and to get a warm response from their speech. He at one point said the phrase. "They spread their legs for a living." (that is slightly paraphrased cause I can't remember exactly). That is incredibly frustrating. I'm 39yrs old, I have a 10yr old son. My best friend who is male (and 5yrs older than I am) introduced me to BTS, and I watched Dope then Fire with my son and we both became fans. I have met so many ARMY/fans who are not what people assume the 'targeted demographic' is. I just wish that western journalists would GET it, that BTS isn't here because Kpop has become big or the Hallyu wave got big but they got here on their own merits. Out of all the interviews I have watched them do when in the US, The Zach Sang Show is the one person that asks them questions in regards to their UNICEF campaign and actually told them, please don't release music in English, I don't think you should have to. He wanted to get to know them as people, as a group, as artists and he wanted to understand the message they were trying to give to their audience and why they wanted to and where they would like that message to go. People talk about how Social Media and other things influenced their success and that might be a small part of it but like you said it isn't THE reason. They saved my best friend's life. Their music, their message pulled him out of a really dark time in his life. Their music has also helped me a lot. It has also been something my son listens too when he is upset or scared, etc. A lot has happened this year in our family and BTS' music is something he likes to listen to when he wants to feel better and the fact that they can give my son, myself and my best friend comfort through their music when we are all three dealing with completely different issues is a beautiful thing. Also how much they honestly care about their fans is a wonderful thing, and that they are very humble when it comes to a lot of things. That I think is the beauty of BTS.

[@lovenothate9813]

YES! So much this! I’m 37 and have struggled with various mental and physical health issues throughout my life. The last 3 years have been some of the hardest, but BTS and their music gave me hope in a way no other music or artist ever has, more self-acceptance and perseverance, and so much laughter and joy! I really see them as angels sent to earth to help so many of us survive these difficult times! 💖

[@dirt9081]

THIS. BTS as a “worldwide band” is so much bigger than we understand and it really is so impossible to categorize them even in daily conversation because saying they’re a “k-pop group” just undermines their impact and saying they’re a “phenomenal boyband that revolutionized and changed the music industry as we know” just makes people think that you are, as you put it so well, a “sex-crazed” delusional fan. I’ve never met a single fan or ARMY that liked BTS just for their looks. This video is amazing and I hope it reaches a great amount of people. Thank you for wording this so well and also, your illustrations took me out.

[@ComedianReacts]

it was gr8 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@mondkindL.L]

Found ya! :D

[@martynakucinskaite]

Came right after your reaction video to check out this comment. Nice 👏

[@em5522]

Like others, also came to find and like after watching your reaction 😅

[@djguidopolese]

Same lol 😂

[@ComedianReacts]

@@mondkindL.L 😱😱😱

[@prodawgy]

This video kept getting recommended to me by KZbin’s algorithm but I kept putting it off. I am so glad that I watched. I felt like I was in church and being preached to in the choir. I left feeling relieved that somebody out there has understanding about BTS vs. KPOP …. But I felt saddened at the same time because like you mentioned its so nuanced that most ppl don’t care. Our society is full of ppl who are non-critical thinkers and don’t analyze things…they just consume what is easiest. I’m a 40+ year old person who truly respects BTS as the artists they are and I am not ashamed of being a hard core fan of them and their work. Also as a person of color, I find myself constantly in judgement from others for why I like them. It is truly unfortunate that so much is ascribed to the classification of KPOP and some ppl can’t wrap their minds around the fact that like Namjoon says “music can be transcending”. Their music has touched me personally and I am grateful that I have come to know them & their story. This video should be mandatory for all media outlets in the West so they can “get it together”. BTS deserves to be seen as the artists they are and gain full recognition for their work and positive influence they project around the world. Thank you for making this video. 👏 👏 👏 💜.

[@inmyformalsweats]

why did this excellent video take forever to get into my recommended?

[@bbygang]

the algorithms!

[@socho6281]

Kpop did not bring me to BTS If that is the truth, then the assumed reverse may be implied? But BTS did not bring me to Kpop BTS brought me to BTS Nothing else compares to them

[@user28221]

Wow... as a former academic, I say you have a talent to be a great instructor (should you decide to go into the academic field one day) 😊. Your 'report' is well-researched. The subject matter is quite heavy but thank you for presenting it in such a fun way, making it easy to follow 👍.

[@tylavidal1481]

Well done commentary on BTS, thank you for your insight. I was introduced to BTS while writing a research graduate school paper on k-pop and k-dramas (watched over 60) in December 2020. I fell down the rabbit hole and landed in ARMY after watching a BTS practice dance video and just wanted to know their names. The rest is, as we say, I 💜 you, history. As a 50+ yr old African American wife and mother of 2 teenage girls, I am proud to be ARMY for BTS. I live in New York City and wish more of the U.S. news outlets covered them in a positive and intelligent light as you have. These guys have inspired me and I love their message, videos, dancing, singing, looks, and quirky, weird personalities. My girls and I spend hours watching BTS Vimeo and KZbin videos, BU webtoons, vlogs, Weverse, RUN BTS Episodes, and listen to the 260+ songs on Spotify. These amazing 7 individuals that make up this outstanding band are remarkable and I am all the richer for having found them. I agree with Namjoon and Yoongi - BTS is not a k-pop genre - it is simply BTS.

[@inhim05]

Many older Korean males treat kpop with more respect now because of bts. That was one of the hundreds hurdles they had to over come

[@forbtssuga3843]

This is probably the best video I've ever watched about this issue even though it has been covered thousand times. After watching your video all I can say is 'Wow, this is exactly what I wanted to say'. Thank you for your hard work!

[@rurublu9614]

"God bless me for acting like smart person" this will be the ending sentence of my master thesis thank you.

[@nicolenicole6325]

My main argument is that why should BTS, who was alienated since day 1 by the industry and its own peers be “welcomed” back by the same ones who sabotaged them?For what? Claiming their achievements as K-pop’s as they have done many times? They are korean, but not K-pop.

[@nocturnal7021]

tbh I'm not really a kpop fan I'm just an army

[@nyeny7041]

jimin's lost Jam's #jimindeservesjamstoo Yeah...me too 😊

[@istan9682]

I listen to a couple kpop groups and solo artists but bts is my main. I'm still learning the names of ppl in some other groups....so idk I guess imma kpop fan

[@elilf140]

Same, I can easily get tired of kpop songs but for some reason bts is different idk

[@imjogijogi9267]

The great thing about BTS success is that the new groups that are fans of BTS and taking note what they did to be successful, example: treat each other with respect & not try to lord over each other. And how to contribute to the group by adding to lyrics, choreography, or any other talent they have. Many ARMY have also given an ear to smaller labels, we want deserving artist to get recognition they deserve regardless of the influence some labels trying to limit their radio/TV time. Remember in ddeang Suga said he hopes that their small label friends succeed too. So give each artist a listen if it's not your style or song move to next, before you know it your playlist will be so diverse from BTS, to Epik High, to The Vane, to The Rose to Kevin Oh Or my favorite vocalist: Ha Hyungsang. Dont let word Kpop keep you from hearing great music 💜💜💜

[@elifc8384]

Same

[@timomira6162]

As I say, art is art wherever it comes from. It should be treated as it is. Let's take Fullmetall alchemist brotherhood & Aamir Khan's films(any some other films) as example in BTS's position. - Journalist can't write FMA sexualizes women or Dangal is a bollywood film where people use extra power effect and dance all of sudden. Because it is not true! Just because stg goes on in the mass, that doesn't mean everyone should follow it. Exceptions always exist! - Also whatever goes wrong in anime or bollywood world, journalists shouldn't use their achievements or name in the article to write about those things. It is in some way ignorance at the same time it is big dirty media play. Defamation that doesn't look like one! Media knows how general public's mind work! Also just because I love 3 Idiots that doesn't mean I am a bollywood film fan. I don't even know what is released this year. I didn't know many bollywood film use extra power effect. And I don't care. I just love good art! Just like that just because I love BTS, that doesn't mean I'm a Kpop fan. Just because I listen to BTS' music that doesn't mean I am obligated to listen to Kpop songs. But also just because I'm not Kpop fan, that doesn't mean I can't listen to Kpop song.

[@nycjt6267]

so called reactors get million+ views but something like this with effort/research cant get the same???

[@Panda-xd5ey]

"Or don't care to" MAN THAT ZOOM IN TOOK ME OUT

[@katekursive1370]

I've been raking KZbin for a month in search of this video without knowing it. Thank you, everyone who took part in making it!

[@danaeclean1328]

i found this through a random reactor. i left right away to come watch it on my own. now that i'm finished i wonder how the hell did i not get recommend the video itself all this time, but got this random reaction vid thrown in my face instead. stupid reason to get mad really, but i think i'm just at awe of how well done this was. it's like you spoke every thought i ever had about bts and their identity, but like, actually made it sound educated and coherent. easily one of my top video essays on this topic, maybe even the best i've seen so far. so much truth was spoken, that i want to make all of the people who i KNOW have these misconceptions & prejudices about bts, sit down and watch the whole thing, and then write an essay on it. seriously, bless you for making this. i'm definitely watching the rest of your videos on the boys and the K-pop culture. you've gained a new subscriber, i guess :)

[@Milk95Tea]

Great job, I'm going to share it everywhere with everybody because I really need to see intelligence in the BTS and KPOP conversation. Thank you so much for your hard work on this.

[@canuckpagali]

How have I not discovered this until now? It's amazing!

[@ayesha6364]

This is a perfect example of how my own personal interests (my inner nerd) finds true enjoyment from K-pop aside from the music. I feel like the years I've spent inside this rabbit hole have allowed me to acquire a lot of the knowledge shared in this video, however; this is the sort of information that I believe those inside and outside our community should have. Consider it a way to nurture cultural open-mindedness and enlightenment. So, in short, thanks so much for making this video and I hope it spreads like wildfire :)

[@dysmissme7343]

I agree 🙂

[@anzalaaiman9971]

Hey this may sound childish, sorry for that but WHEN YOU FIRST SAID TAYLOR SWIFT and then WHEN YOU SAID TAYLOR SWIFT AND EVN INCLUDED LOVER MV'S CLIP, my bangswiftie heart went AHHHHHHH Ps : you have great taste in music, also A BIG THANKS FOR SUCH AN AMAZING VIDEO!

[@henmaydostuff8338]

"THE GENRE IS BTS" -KIM NAMJOON (I don't mean this as a criticism to this video lol, I love this video, very well crafted)

[@GoldenKim]

👏👏👏👏👏. As ARMY I still appreciate the K Pop journey. South Korea and its recent history along with the internet was ripe for many genres and artists. As a topical video essay your subject matter was challenging yet you so eloquently broke it all down for someone like me who knew so little about Sth Korean history, let alone K Pops beginnings. So as a Westerner ARMY, thank you 😊. Now that BTS own a 35% share in Big Hit, I’ve watched fascinated at how the boys (young men) are making their marks as Billionaire Artists. This chapter I suspect will break more ground and reach all corners of the world with their wisdom humanity can only benefit from. BTS has become a “Movement”. It’s a joy to witness. Well done 🙋‍♀️🌏💯💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@luvchimmy2087]

this is probably one of the best analysis on bts i've ever seen. you're actually a lot better than any of the articles i've read about the boys' success.

[@angelicaquintero8341]

i will write in my language to explain myself better but before that i just want to say that it was a great analysis on why bts are in their own category and are not just k-pop. Estoy en el fandom desde finales de 2016 y recuerdo claramente cuando la discusión sobre si BTS era K-pop o no empezó. Fue justo después de You Never Walk Alone (aunque la base por decirlo así fue desde la era de WINGS cuando más personas empezaron a notar la diferencia entre BTS y los demás grupos de k-pop, más que nada internacionalmente) cuando Spring Day salió y los coreanos vieron que SD no era la típica canción de k-pop, y claro que no lo es ya que como sabes SD transmite lo que es el Han (sin contar con el hecho de que hacia tributo al desastre del Sewol Ferry), salieron artículos de medios coreanos diciendo que la música de BTS no era música idol aka k-pop porque ellos eran diferentes, a pesar de tener todo el paquete del k-pop (las coreografías, el formato de los albumes, promoción en los shows de música, etc). Sus canciones eran y son más sinceras y auténticas, con mensajes que difícilmente se encuentran en el k-pop. Luego la popularidad de BTS creció en USA y en otras partes del mundo, por lo que ARMY tuvo que enfrentarse a medios racistas, xenofóbicos e ignorantes periodistas que descartaban a BTS por ser un grupo de k-pop sin siquiera molestarse a mirar más allá de sus conceptos preconcebidos. Yo sinceramente no pienso que el kpop sea un género, porque dentro de él hay muchas influencias de otros géneros de música, por eso creo que k-pop solo es un término que se acogió para englobar o generalizar la música de los idols que, a diferencia de los cantantes comunes en Corea, usan ciertos elementos que están arraigados en lo que se conoce como kpop. BTS es un grupo de kpop, sí, porque pertenecen a esa industria y usan los elementos típicos del kpop, sin embargo, pienso que ellos han cambiado el juego, han excedido los estándares y están haciendo cosas que ningún grupo de kpop o artista en general ha hecho jamás. Es muy díficil categorizarlos cuando ya han pasado esa barrera, las categorías te limitan y te obligan a ser solo una cosa, bts va más allá del kpop, eso no implica que no lo sean pero tampoco quiere decir que es lo único que son. Es verdad que el kpop en general tiene una percepción negativa por parte del público, tanto en Corea como en otros países, pero eso se debe a la forma en que las empresas han querido comercializar el kpop, la industria debe cambiar para que esos prejuicios no se sedimenten más en la mente de las personas y siento que BTS lo está haciendo (en cierta medida) porque tampoco es el trabajo de ellos ser los héroes y salvar a una industria que solo los ha tratado como basura, sin contar con el hecho que gran mayoría de la comunidad del kpop los odia, ya que en vez de apoyarlos solo los quieren hundir. Aun así me alegra que sea BTS quien poco a poco está cambiando la percepción de las personas pero no por la industria (las compañías coreanas como SM y JYP) ni por la comunidad del kpop sino por los idols que merecen el respeto de los demás hacia lo que hacen. Namjoon y Yoongi no sufrieron por todo eso para que yo haga lo mismo con los otros idols, los idols pueden ser artistas de verdad, que sean kpop no los hace menos talentosos o genuinos que el resto. En fin creo que divague mucho y no sé si tenga sentido lo que dije pero bueno espero que al menos se entienda lo que traté de decir. Gracias si leíste hasta este punto :)

[@keuromi7509]

i feel like this is the best analysis on bts i’ve ever come across. holy shit, you’re brilliant, i can’t even begin to describe how amazing it would be if you ever interviewed them. you deserve a huge round of applause for this video 👏🏻

[@bbygang]

thank you :')

[@keuromi7509]

bby gang you’re welcome omg please never stop making such high quality videos🙌🏻

[@dasha5019]

great work, everything is on point, it needs to get viral so that people understand everything and don't miss their chance to appreciate and accept bts as a legends and artists themselves right now. the only reason why i regret watching this video is that when i see someone being unfair about bts, it would hurt me much more than it did later. bc i am so sensitive about them, and when i try not to show myself being " a crazy fangirl" by explaining seriously bts, those people who don't get them seriously don't get me seriously either by saying some mean clueless things, jokes. this really hurts. that's why i stopped those heated conversations with my family members about them, but still they can't resist recalling them in stereotype-relating situations. and i need to keep silent and show that i don't care, but inside it's like pieces of glass thrusting into my heart. SO now it will be a lot harder to force myself not to care about the bad comments towards bts edit: I NEED TO GET ATTENTION FROM RUSSIAN SPEAKING PEOPLE, i am russian(as you can tell by my poor english - sorry) and i would appreciate if someone could make russian subtitles for this video. no, i think every country needs to know so yeah, the video needs the subtitles.

[@clarasousa1836]

I'm a bit late, but I want to contribute to the conversation as well. I, too, ask this question to myself. Why? Why BTS? Why not other group? I've been researching and seeing some content nowadays of other k-pop groups and asking myself what does BTS have that is so different. I would answer to myself: their personalities. In fact, they make me laugh so so much, I love their "crack" videos and stuff. Their performances, their participation in composition and production, I think all of it is important. But, to be completely honest, I think that the key to their sucess is, first, their marketing. They simply were put in front of us and as international fans, we probably had never seen nothing like it. When I heard about them, I thought it was some weird thing that my 16-year-old cousin liked like in the past there was One Direction, or even The Beatles. But then I got to one of their songs and felt curious, searched for performances and quickly wanted to know their names and started watching to meme videos, and that was it, I was in love with them. Maybe other groups have members that are as hard working, funny, spontaneous, I don't know, but BTS' marketing allowed them to get to me, a then 22 year old girl in Brazil. I found out about their theories, all of their eras and curiosities of their journey, but nothing of it would be possible if I had not found a dance cover from a dance group. To be fair, I wouldn't have gotten to them if it wasn't for BLACKPINK. I discovered them once in my Instagram's Explore and the coreo made me curious. I used to watch videos of them and got to dance covers, till I gave a chance to watch a BTS' cover. Again: it wouldn't have happened if their marketing, their fans, I don't know, didn't propell their stuff to a audience who never in a million years would think that would like anything related to k-pop. So, I think it's a mix of: they reached me + they looked different from anything I'd seen in western music, even the boybans, with their coreos + their personalities and hard work, which is completely and 100% theirs. So, maybe if it was another group, from another label, I would see them, get curious and search, but I don't know it another group would be able to make me as smitten as I am for BTS, with their lovely and funny personalities.

[@PraiseJ-Pope]

I found BTS and only some time later I fully dived into the rest of kpop. But no other group captured my heart like they did. You put it perfectly in words. I want to link this vid under every bad comment by a middle aged white man from my country who blasts his racist outdated opinion about what rEaL music is in the comments beneath one of the rare articles about BTS in my countries media. BTS are so fucking big and yet they are mentioned like...two times a year here in germany - and then people repeat the same clichee shit as always and journalists dont do research, and of course all the MuSiC eXpErTs who worship some old af rock band where most members died from drug abuse or cancer due to Alcohol or drugs (and dont forget the often very sexist lyrics!) But I am the freak for loving a group that is so wholesome and good and is above kpop in all measurements.

[@PraiseJ-Pope]

BTW I still dont get how people say BTS didnt pave the way like...ehh...seo taiji himself said they are his successors? They rolled with the true idea of art as a form of holding a mirror in front of the society and not only making brainless cutey or cool songs FROM THE START, they worked their way up unlike others (second and third gen) who were handed shit just because of the entertainment name; they started the social media- communication-with-fans-directly (which now is a must for idols) and participated in working on the music from the beginning and not only after some time. Also they stopped doing variety shows with other people in 2016 and started their own thing (BTS Run) which is such an important message from BigHit to other companies - "you mistreated them, now watch us giving them their Platform they deserve and where they dont have to do weird shit they dont want to.

[@kalina1871]

@@PraiseJ-Pope fr!!

[@candidealki1225]

This was such a good video, I feel really lucky that I found this because I just recently found BTS. There is so much contrasting information about K-pop and I feel like I can now understand various opinions and information with a more open mind.

[@ashington89]

This video explains everything so well! I wish people would understand BTS for who and what they are because they are incredible!

[@catthelazyone3366]

OMG YOU DONT KNOW HOW LONG I SEARCHED FOR THIS- i watched this video quite a time ago and only remember that it was good af... i just spent like an hour searching for this. amazing quality.

[@kalina1871]

this video is amazing

[@minimon636]

For me, I'll approach it in a more psychological way. Let's talk about their lyrics. Modern youth are really facing a fast-paced society while having to carry heavy expectations from a generation that expects them to succeed. This generation grew up in an interconnected world, so it seems they're more open to things the previous generation might not be, including ideologies. Challenging the status quo is a BTS trademark. Aside from that, their music gives of a feeling of acceptance and belongingness. When you put ideas like that in a song with a bomb MV and fascinating concept with hardworking performers, of course it's gonna blow up. Also, seeing them interact with each other and the ARMY like a family is just touching. That's just an opinion OK bye.💜

[@atinyatiny8457]

Whenever someone questions why I love and appreciate BTS.. I’m just going to send them the link to this... then they can educate themselves.. ...and hopefully let me listen to their music in the car... =_=

[@viaciel]

Caity Melville yesss

[@joellemartin4175]

"The genre is BTS" - BTS 2020

[@alisonschwab7842]

This is a phenomenal video, and it reminded me of a conversation I had with my mom on NYE. I was explaining how I kind of evolved into a fan of Kpop in general (in its many forms and flavors) through the gateway of idol groups like BTS and Blackpink. Being that all she knows about Kpop is idol groups, she was utterly shocked. I'm sure the discourse around Kpop as a classification/genre won't go away anytime soon. Thank you for making this video. I learned a lot.

[@svjetlixoxo2648]

This is an important video. Thank you for making it. Even though it's 30 min long, it still leaves me with the thought that there is so much more.. There are so many aspects.. Media coverage is just ridiculously uninformed, I can't even read it sometimes (often). Keep doing what your doing. If we all repeat and try to inform, maybe one day they will listen and understand. Maybe.

[@denibara1021]

When he started talking about bts redefining what it means to be an idol, I got reminded of something that Kpop junkee said in his theory video for the idol music video. I got goosebumps and kinda freaked me out but at the same time it was nice to hear.

[@kathia8014]

i feel like while you can definitely say they've extrapolated the structures of ~kpop~ and they exist beyond that too, but saying that they're *not* kpop or that theyre not idols feels wrong because.... that is necessarily ignoring a pretty significant part of their identity as artists, including their direct influences from specifically idols like h.o.t, shinhwa, sechkiess, boa, bigbang etc as in, theres a difference in saying bts is not *just* kpop to saying theyre not kpop point blank imo

[@dzieckoziemi]

How can we send this video to every media outlet in the world? Great job!!!

[@TheConsistentoDDity]

I've started to use the term kmusic because there is such a large variety in styles and popularity, that I felt the term "kpop" would not only not do it justice, but also because I do feel the general public has a narrow definition to the term. P.s. Loved your goodbye!

[@denzelwenzel]

Strongly agree! Imma start doin that aswell!

[@TheTwil1]

Butterfly is to a pupa as Bts is to Kpop. It may have started out that way, but it's not how they turned out.

[@kittcath]

Points were made, great video. I want Western media to actually watch and learn from it and gain knowledge of what truly is Kpop. There's so many misconception of it out there and it's frustrating to see lol. btw I love the stickman figures lol

[@vickyharb7703]

I appreciate you making this video so please don't take what I'm gonna say negatively. It's just I'm sharing with you a different opinion from yours. I don't see BTS as introducing a new phase of kpop or as a new form of kpop, but rather they established their own genre that is separate from kpop. In order for kpop to start a new model of it, you need a group of artists to break from the older kpop model first and contribute (leave their mark) to shaping the new model. But none is doing the things that BTS are doing, none are implementing the same elements that BTS uses. So using one single act, in my opinion, to claim that they're introducing a new model of kpop is not enough evidence that this genre is evolving when the same old practices/methods of the older model of kpop are still existing and still being applied to groups that are currently promoting. I would also argue that BTS are against the kpop label or any other label other than "BTS." In an interview with Ones To Watch, BTS said "we don’t want to label our music as a certain genre or limit it to K-pop, but would like to make a new category for it if possible." (This was in 2017 if you want to look it up). There is also a video in BangtanTV "[2019 FESTA] BTS" in which Yoongi explains that he prefers that their music be defined with the word 'BTS,' and not other labels: "I think the name BTS is enough. Because defining us a certain way would get us stuck again with that word." If they wanted to embrace the kpop label, they would not reject it on several occasions. So for this reason and other reasons, such as the stigma about kpop, makes me prefer to separate them from kpop.

[@jinsflsg]

Yes i have observed it too. But since they debuted under a kpop label it would stick to them..no matter how different they are or not

[@ariyuna1991]

Wow! You did such a great job! It's informing and makes you think about the question what kpop is and where BTS stands. I also think that you can put them under the "kpop" label even when they are quiet different. What I dislike is that it's so important for many people to categorize them. The western music industry acts differently towards them because of it. Their achievement get downgraded and generalized as the archievement of the whole kpop industry. Also the fact that apparently BTS are automatically seen as kpop fans and kpop fans automatically as BTS fans. Like...no, I'm not a kpop fan. I'm a BTS fan. No one say mentions "pop fans" when you say that you are a Taylor Swift fan (as an example). So why is expected that someone is a kpop fan... In general I'm curious what the future brings for BTS and how the keep changing the boundaries of kpop. :)

[@ooin_otaku4282]

I agree with you!! There are so many kpop groups(I want to say 200+ since the beginning of kpop) how are they all going to be the same?? Most people probably think that there's only like 5 groups or something. Also, I like how you said that you're not a kpop fan, but a bts fan. For me it's the other way around 😂 I'm a kpop fan but not a bts fan.

[@elmasasabbagh3992]

THIS! This is how the media should be today. How journalists should approach conversations and news. The amount of research and thought you put into this video essay is so... I can't even find the right word for it except that I'm thankful and proud of your hard work. Keep up the good work, one of the best videos youtube recommended to me honestly.

[@tringa5042]

this is the best "an (un)helpful guide to bts and kpop"

[@saturated3821]

:'D I love your stick figure Namjoon and Yoongi. I've been Army for a couple of years but I've never really been into other k-pop groups, except recently TXT although not to the same extent. I've said that while one might describe BTS as k-pop, for me they are way beyond what is usually meant when people talk about kpop. Oh and in IDOL they say you can call them an artist or an idol or whatever, they don't care, that they are first and foremost human beings with multiple facets to their personalities.

[@NanciBK]

This is awesome! It does such a great job for clueless Westerners to gain a basic understanding of Korean popular music and “K-pop” and to understand how and why BTS are different. Thank you so much!

[@jaydope4823]

Wow. I never knew this video exist until someone brought up the btspop vs Kpop argument again.

[@Anonymous-ow6bs]

I knew it existed but I didn't know people were so pressed about it T-T

[@ellise2601]

some ppl say tht xxx group is better than bts in terms of vocals and they arent popular like them Well its just they r not BTS

[@genesissauceda997]

I'd love to see you intervewing BTS, like i bet even they would highly enjoy a conversation with you. We would know about more important topics, and I think they would enjoy telling us more about the important things of themselves

[@m1r__]

i believe BTS is K-pop at its very best and they are an example of what K-pop can be when its genuine and not manufactured, imo.

[@actroctoviany]

I should be reading papers and doing stuff for my thesis but here I am. 14:33 I can imagine myself explaining my thesis in front of my thesis adviser. This vid is awesome.

[@arcie3716]

I have to say this channel has taught me to be more critical with the way media discusses any international subjects 👍

[@99txgh]

I loved this Elliot, very comprehensive, I wish there were more articles who explored this, but a lot of music journalists either don't know enough about the industry or are too scared, whilst K-pop music journalists tend to like talking about other groups more like Tamar and Jeff (who thinks he's responsible for spreading K-pop in the west 🙄) or they only talk about K-pop music and not deeper issues within it

[@dazzlingapril]

bts phenomenon is so rare. people are talking about behind of their success here and there. but its not like they are the first group to embrace hiphop nor the first to write their own songs nor the first to critize the society nor the first to utilize social media. even after long discussion the exact formula is nowhere to be found as big companies still are not able to recreate this case with so much information floating around. how these diverse listeners can relate to bts so much and attached to them? for general listeners it might be bc of their attractive sides which is what we can called as "kpop". they stand out just like other kpop artists. Personally i first interested on bts upon seeing jimin stage delivery which is full of emotion. When i get back at home i started watch their several videos and found out myself crying because of their lyrics. They portrayed raw emotion. So for me, it is because of their imperfection as individuals. Them as seven different persons create this harmony to complete each other not only in music but also in daily life. Put aside their perfect sync choreography or performances, they share their flaws with their fans. That's the behind of their movies which potray the behind of their concerts. But long before, they were starting their bangtan bomb and serial bon voyage which show us their bond. They show us not only their smile but also their works, tears, and flaws. That's when we start to relate to them as human. We want to protect them and willingly do much for their happiness. For them not to get in the pain. We appreciate so much their works for vocaling our voices too. I love them so much. I'm a little bit afraid to post this comment as i also notice that some other groups also have strong bond. And once again I my self, too, will never be able to find out why BTS are different. May be it just because they hit at the right place and the right time. Maybe it is just their destiny to found each other and not giving up.

[@bubbleteasociety3249]

This popped up in my recommendations and thank heck for that because this is exactly what I explain to people and scream about when western media just say crap - I cannot explain how tired I am of people saying they're 'just' a 'boy group' (yes, the cringe is real). I am a 22 yr old ARMY and BTS and their message saved my life. And that, that has meaning.