BEAR DEFENSE with the 10mm semi Auto Handgun? Bear Spray vs Gun

[@darin7369]

I'm a wildlife biologist by training and I live, work and play in grizzly country and have encountered lots of grizzlies (so I've got skin in the game). I have researched this subject extensively including personal experience, news clips of actual incidents, the extensive Alaska state defense of life and property (DLP) records which include grizzly self defense incidents. I also looked into the original bear spray tests that were done when it was being developed (before it became political) and the bogus research that was done after it became political (the garbage that biologists feel obligated to quote all the time). I call it bogus research because the authors clearly cherry picked the data on their firearms effectiveness study, evidenced by the fact they used DLP records but they only selected the incidents that fit their narrative. In their bear spray effectiveness study, almost all of the samples were hazing incidents against non-aggressive bears. There were also multiple people present during most of these incidents which is a deterrent in itself if three or more people are present. It was obviously not a self-defense study even though they interpreted it as such. It's also worth noting that one of the authors was pushing to ban firearms on public lands prior to authoring the above propaganda pieces. In my own research (using the full set of DLP records) I found firearms were extremely effective against grizzly attack. For bear spray, I went to the original testing by the graduate student who developed bear spray. She found that bear spray had limited effectiveness depending on how aggressive the bear's personality was. I've seen incident after incident in the news which backs up those findings of limited effectiveness. As for firearms, don't fall for the magazine capacity argument. A charging bear will get to you long before you can empty your six shooter much less your high capacity semi auto handgun. A shotgun with slugs is best but is impractical when bow hunting. For a handgun choose a 44 magnum revolver or larger with a heavy softnose flat point bullet. This will give the maximum of shock, penetration and bone breaking power. Aim at about chin level on the bear. This will give you a margin for error. A few inches high will be a brain shot, low will be a heart shot and right on will be a spine shot. This is important because a charging bear will be bobbing up and down slightly as it runs. Last but certainly not least - practice. Start with it holstered as it would be in an actual situation. progress from a stationary target to a moving target. And like they said, if you're not going to practice then just use bear spray.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Excellent info, thanks for sharing!

[@acidichunt7379]

You're not catching my ass in an area like that without a fire arm. I don't care what any research study says, any youtuber and I think the final statement if your not gonna practice extensively then do bear spray is like saying you're too stupid, good luck. It comes off condescending when it comes out in text and In video like the guy did here and yourself. Rest of the video was fine. If somebody goes out and shoots themself in the leg and gets eaten that's on them, but I'm still not going to recommend disarming themselves and going out with some mace. Give me a break. I grew up with firearms and served and am an enthusiast so maybe I can't understand but it doesn't take 10,000 rounds and making it your life for a year to figure out which end to point at the bear.

[@acidichunt7379]

Btw, I wasn't saying anything negative about your comment. I agree, id probably have both. Guys in the video seem cool too. Just my thoughts.

[@kanonierable]

I fullly agree on your emphasis on training, but training means practice and practice and more practice! And that is where I see a problem with those heavy calibers like the .44mag and .454 Casull. It was somewhat mentioned in the video, you'll be hard pressed to really do your training routine when with every shot the ligaments, tendons, muscle and bone of your wrist and forearm are screaming NOOOOOOOO!!! I don't think the two expert shots in this great video have that kind of problem with their 10mm, I have no doubt the gentleman who is preparing for his trip to bear country will indeed have used up every one of the 700 rounds he got ready for the training! And there is that iron rule about practising skills I firmly believe in, the best training is the one that you actually do. That said I appreciate everything you said and will keep in mind the words that come from an experienced outdoorsman! Putting ideology and convenient political narrative over real world facts is pure idiocy and anyone who calls out these frauds is my friend and ally!

[@sabresix7933]

One of the best informed comments I've ever read on KZbin.

[@JohnPhillips-qw4db]

I lived in SE Alaska for 25 years. A 10mm is better than nothing, but is not adequate for the bears of Alaska. There has been a synergy created around the 10mm as being a magical bear stopper. Carry a .308,plus cal rifle or shotgun in Alaska. Your chances of actually hitting your target, in a stressful situation, are much higher. You will also enjoy the benefit of 3 to 4 times the energy per shot. No comparison.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I mentioned that very thing in the video. And also give reasons I elected to go with the 10mm over the larger caliber handguns or long guns.

[@Staroy]

Why not carry a full auto ar15?

[@coasterbrookie]

@@Staroywell at about $60k and a bit of a hassle to deal with the ownership, I suppose you could.

[@marry9894]

What do you suggest for a woman to carry? I have a 303 rifle?

[@hurricaneaquatics]

That Glock 40 10mm is shooting Underwood 220g at 757 foot pounds. I'm pretty positive that Buffalo Bore are even hotter than Underwood for a little more FPE. 750+ FPE per shot is trucking in that long slide 10mm Glock. Now a 12 Gauge Shotgun with 3" shells is hitting around 3100 FPE per shot. My carry would be a Benelli semi-auto with 3 inch bad news slugs. My pistol wound be the Glock 40 10mm with 200g or 220g hardcast from Underwood or Buffalo Bore.

[@samadams9557]

Good stuff Clay. If I may I’d like to give you some advice as I do a lot of training and also teach pistol craft. Two things that really improved my shooting when the goal is both fast and accurate follow up shots is; 1. Pay attention to where your front sight or dot lands after the shot and before correction. Then adjust your grip until the front sight or dot is landing back on target. 2. Let your sights catch up to the trigger. Meaning, start squeezing the trigger immediately while adjusting your sights/dot. What will typically happen is the gun will surprise you by firing just before you thought everything was perfect. Even though it wasn’t “perfect” this surprise will end up with better results than flinching by slapping the trigger once you think everything is perfect. Lastly, once you’re comfortable you’ve shaved off all the time on your draw sequence, start taking a step to the side as you’re drawing the weapon; getting off the x so to speak. Finally, start moving and shooting. If someone picked up and handful of rocks to throw at us, instinctively we’ll move. Shooters in real situations almost always move while shooting, so you might as well be good at it. Thanks for all your content. I’ve been watching your videos for years. I found you originally via your traditional archery stuff from back in the day. Hope you have a great trip, looking forward to the footage. Good luck.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Many thanks

[@danielhuff1397]

Excellent comment

[@WillyK51]

Practice makes perfect. but its not so simple to have what it takes to stand your ground when threatened. Not everyone has it. Had it happen in Civilian, Law enforcement and out in the wild. It's VERY scary. Cool head when shot at or rushed is something I cant explain. I trembled and shook afterwards. But saved my life. He, He Been a spear fisherman since a Kid. Dad taught me, Didn''t mention the times I ecountered Sharks and was jumped by them for my fish. Saw my first one at about 11-12 yrs Was allowed to roam the woods by 12 by myself hunting with an airgun. Guess being out there since young and in peril might prepare you for else.

[@garychancey9143]

Appreciate you Clay and it's good to see you and Mickey working together.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Much appreciated

[@backcountryamateurradio]

2 of my favorite guys in one place, awesome. This is a quandary I face all the time when traveling in the woods by myself. Great demonstration and extremely worthwhile to think about for training. Thanks Clay for putting this together.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Right on!

[@CarryTrainer]

❤

[@acidichunt7379]

They do seem cool. I subscribed.

[@kanonierable]

Greetings from Switzerland! I just like to tell you how much I've come to respect US gun culture through videos like this. Putting all politics aside, you guys are just some very fine shots. I love your attention to critical detail, like being very careful to never cover any part of your body with that muzzle when performing your draw. Watching you do your basic stuff, to me that is poetry in motion. Keep on doing your thing and all the best for your trip!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Many thanks

[@frisk151]

Hold up!! My relatives are from Sweden? Have the gun laws changed if you have served in the military, etc in the last 20 years? When I visited back then they had fully automatic rifles in their closets.. Well, I was younger and didn't exactly ask to go out and shoot it, but they said it was a type of homeland defense for them in Sweden.. Anyway... Hellow likely very very distant relative.. ;).

[@xxx-wg3gr]

​@@frisk151 Is someone confusing Sweden with Switzerland? They are both lovely places, but not the same. There's actually a sea and a couple of other countries between them. Beautiful people in both places! But the tradition was that Swiss guys took their military rifles home.

[@thomasstevenrothmbamd2384]

This is an excellent presentation. The 10mm auto is an excellent choice. Practice and training is so important.

[@WilliamFluery]

The best defense from getting attacked by a bear is to sit on your couch and watch others walk through the woods

[@clayhayeshunter]

😂definitely

[@CarryTrainer]

😂

[@paulellsworth7679]

What a wasted life!

[@MK2Scirocco]

🤣

[@TheScourge-sg5vv]

They always say be faster than the slowest guy in the group. I am that guy! Old, slow and somebody keeps tying my shoe laces together. Nope, its the couch for me.

[@gregbarmer9108]

Good choice on the Glock 10mm. About 2 years ago myself and a friend, both of us are Firearms Instructors for our departments and active competition shooters conducted a test. We used a charging target that gives you 2.5 seconds to react before it reaches you at 7 yards. The handguns used by us were Glock 20 with full power 10mm loads, 44 mag revolvers, 454 casull revolver. The test was done from guard (weapon out of the holster and in a fighting stance) We were looking for the best hit probability on a moving/ Charging target with enough gun/bullet/load that could penetrate the skull of a bear. Previous penetration test has shown that the above handguns/load combinations will penetrate a bears skull both black bear and brown bear. The end results were the Glock 20 10mm had the highest hit probability hands down, with and average of 4 accurate hits in the head size target in 2.5 seconds. That compared to two hits with the 44 mag and 1 hit with the 454. Accuracy was marginal at best with the 44 and 454. The Glock 20 we kept our hits in a 4" group centered on the 9" head target and with the revolvers we used all of the 9" to count as a hit.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Very interesting!

[@johnharris8191]

1 hit with a .44 magnum equals 2 hits with a 10mm and 1 hit with a .454 Casull equals 3 hits with a 10mm. You need to watch Chuke's videos of 10mm Glocks blowing up, jamming, and dropping out the mags using dangerous game loads.

[@EastlakeRasta7]

​@@johnharris8191 you don't just use 10 mm rounds you use the grizzly rounds. If you didn't know that.

[@johnharris8191]

@@EastlakeRasta7 l have known that ever since Moby Dick was a minnow. Just like l know .44 Magnum is twice as powerful as 10mm.

[@EastlakeRasta7]

@@johnharris8191 still doesn't change the fact that the grouping with the 10 mm is going to be more consistent and you're going to put twice as many rounds down range, especially when the grizzly rounds are proven to work these make up the shortcomings of the difference in ballistics

[@Sam_ehtdrol96420]

This guy never posts boring content

[@bruceb9515]

I live, work, play and hunt in Alaska. Many folks here have switched to the 10mm for their woods/bush gun. I carry a S&W M&P 10mm in a GS chest holster made in Wasilla, Alaska. I wear it all the time when I'm out and about. I train with it often and 10mm is fairly reasonable to buy for training. There were 2 DLP's this year and 10mm was very effective. Recoil management is to be considered when choosing which caliber to use. The recoil from a .44 , .454 or .500 is difficult to control quickly unless you train and even than is questionable when compared to shooting a 10mm with a .200 hard cast for example. Fortunately, Ive never had a bad bear encounter...yet. My take is only tourists and liberals from the Anchorage carry bear spray from what I've seen. Just my 2 cents...

[@Kurtdog63]

Canadian guide commented that there is nothing in North America that can cover ground like a grizzly on a mission. He recommended dropping to a knee to shoot at them parallel to the ground. They are moving so fast that hunters tend to shoot over top and behind them. Might at least take a low crouch position and aim low? I saw an old video that showed Fred Bear holding a large, old style revolver while bow hunting in bear country. .44 mag cartridge was developed in 1955 so could have been that caliber. Guessing some type of heavy, hardened, cast bullet, non-hollow point for maximum penetration would be optimum. Semi-autos have gotten a lot more dependable, but still a concern of a bad round or a jam. In thick cover, I would have my arrows in my quiver and my pistol in my dominant hand, not in the holster, and practice one hand shots. Point and shoot may not work at 20 yards, but it will work at 20 feet. Defense instructor said keep shooting till the threat changes shape, or catches on fire. Good video. Keep them coming.

[@LoreFoundry]

I'd rather fight a mountain lion. At least I won't see my instant death coming.

[@lurebenson7722]

What a pile of Bull crap ! You would get mowed over and killed doing that stupid thing and using a weak handgun that is just 1/2 the power of a 30-30 win

[@Kurtdog63]

Yeah. He only guided grizzly hunters for 30 years in British Colombia. What did he know?

[@scorpiotaurus]

@@Kurtdog63 What you said. Plus don’t train to quickly reholster every time. Mix in a few mag dumps with quick mag changes. You’re training for a grizzly attack not a gun fight.

[@deanroome5420]

My Ruger Redhawk 45 LC 4.2 inch 1:16 twist bbl will stabilize Ashley Emerson's Garrett Hammerhead Superhardcast 405 gr and 365 grain bullets at around 1100 fps. This revolver had been action tuned by Hamilton Bowen and is carried in a Guide's Choice Chest Holster with a lanyard. Best combo I have found for carry weight and stopping power.

[@rockytopwrangler2069]

... 405 gr/ 365gr ??? ... HOLY CRAP !!!

[@RatdogDRB]

I worked as a bear guard in Alaska for about a decade. I worked the Exxon/Valdez efforts, and we were issued cases of bear spray, upwards of 25% of them were flat (light pee stream). What I suggest is to have both but think in terms of reaching for the firearm first. What most people fail to consider when facing a charging bear is the speed of which the bear is coming. You're likely to shoot over the animal's back. Drop to one knee and you remove the mental gymnastics of having to lead the bear AND hitting vitals. Dropping to one knee and you're sending the piece of lead into a head-on collision with that bear. I'm also a big fan of a laser. That bear is at full speed within about two bounds and bringing it at about 35mph (m'be more). Your time to get that first shot off into that bear is going to be short. The other factor that applies in real life is this: the "experts" tell you which bears (species) does what, and what is "correct" when the encounter happens. The only problem with that is that bears can't read the pamphlets written by the experts. Bears are like people and Forrest Gump's box of chocolates; you don't know what you're getting. You might have a starving bear. You might have a bear with a raging toothache or other medically based issue tormenting his pain sensors continually. You may have a bear that's been getting his butt kicked by all the other bears and is just in a FOUL mood and ready to get some confidence on the next thing he/she encounters. You may have a bear with a really full gut that's not that motivated. You may have a sow that just lost a cub earlier that day. You just do NOT know how that particular animal is going to react/commit. I fully agree with you on wearing the gear you're going to hunt with, so you KNOW what challenges you're going to be facing when that moment we never want becomes reality. You did good, cutting your time in half with that session. Also, for those considering an optic, go into it knowing the difference between an open emitter and one that is not open, how both are likely to be affected by weather conditions and or dusty conditions. Start your hunt with fresh batteries, have spares, and check 'em each night back in camp (at minimum) I'm a bit of a fan of the Mossberg Shockwave in 12 gauge, which is the 590 platform. I like that slung in front too. I'm a fan of the 1 ounce Brenneke slugs. I also like loading: slug/00 buck/slug/00buck... First shot for the kill, second gives that spread for stress and shorter distance to slow 'em down, and if the good Lord is smiling on you with time for a third shot, back into major killing power of the slug. Every person should make up their own mind for what they like in that department though. Again, I like the Crimson Trace laser for fast target acquisition, especially for my 64 year old eyeballs. I will confirm. Even though it was 200 yards away, and that distance between us was open water, and my 4x4 rig's door was open and engine running, and all I had to do is step up into it... and I had a Remington 870 loaded for bear in hand... having a BIG boar polar bear locking eyes with you in HIS environment flat out intimidates you. They are nothing to dismiss and disrespect in the field. Amazing animals.

[@shadowcastre]

@@RatdogDRB That was a good read! - I agree with you on the 12 gauge as it's my 1st choice for bear protection. The Shockwave is awesome as well as the 18" Mavrick 88. I upgraded from slugs to a 2oz buck and ball load... A .71 cal round ball on top of 8 - .31 cal 0 buckshot, lead cast fairly hard with antimony and sweetened with a pinch of copper for toughness.

[@lurebenson7722]

You are just repeating some KZbin Groupie parrot mouth talking BS that is all over these bear videos proving you are a liar. The most BS is to go down and a knee and shoot a charging bear!

[@RatdogDRB]

@@shadowcastre I'll have to lay an eyeball on those loads. I likes that concept.

[@deaneng8540]

Nice info! How did you make your shotgun loads waterproof? Isn't that a major downside of a shotgun if it's a wet climate?

[@lurebenson7722]

@@deaneng8540 What you think shotgun shells are dunked in water? The normal crimp on shotgun shells is all need to close them up. Even the 70 cal plastic cap type end caps for roll crimps for reloads cause water proofing

[@luckyjim51]

The grass/ brush 8' high on a trail bear wide, BEAR SPRAY! I have a small soup can, will 1/4" nuts and a belt clip. For blind walking along a river, HEY BEAR! I put a small magnet on the bottom to quiet the can when i don't want the noise..... Enjoy!

[@Phearsum]

Reminds me of the old joke of there being little bells and whistles in bear scat.

[@rogerclark9285]

@@Phearsum and it smells like bear spray.

[@theaveragewoodsman6002]

10mm is actually closer in power to a 357 magnum, not 41 magnum.

[@davidsmith2316]

oh man! you got mickey with ya. hes probably the best firearms trainer in the country.

[@nohillforahighstepper]

The 10mm is close to a 357 mag in overall "power" loaded heavy for caliber. Remember that in a revolver, the pistol is venting some pressure at the cylinder gap. Vs. an auto where there is no venting occuring. Also....keep firing until the threat is done. 10mm is barely adequate for griz. 1 hit is 50/50. 2 or more increases your odds of survival immensely. Not sure which redot you are using, so check for positive operation before you leave camp every day. Co-witnessed sights are highly recommended, if possible. Personally, I chose a Rock Island 1911 chambered in 10mm. Less mag capacity but I am twice as accurate and the felt recoil is similar to a 45 auto, better trigger than the Glock 20. But it is slightly heavier than a fully loaded G20. Preferences. My hands don't fit Glocks well. How many shots will the average shooter be able to get off in 3 seconds? 2? 3? 4? I would hate to die with 11 still in the mag....accuracy matters. Pick the pistol that you can be the most accurate and quick with. Then hope for the best. The best bear encounter is no encounter at all... 😊😊😊

[@Smitty_76]

Todd Orr was attacked by a sow grizzly with cubs in Montana and had bear spray and a pistol in a chest rig. He sprayed the bear with the pepper spray and it ran right through it and mauled him. He actually had a pistol in a chest rig but apparently didn't pull that first. For those not of the faint of heart, you can watch the aftermath of the attack as he actually filmed himself walking out with his ear halfway falling off his head and lacerations across his scalp along with other numerous injuries. Clay maybe you shouldn't watch the video. ;)

[@clayhayeshunter]

I remember when it happened

[@benotyourboss]

Holy s*ht, justseen the thumbnail of the attack and it looks nasty!

[@VashStarwind]

Was that the guy from mountain men? I thought his name was Tom Orr?

[@Smitty_76]

@@VashStarwind No, different person.

[@VashStarwind]

@@Smitty_76 Yeah ha i ended up looking it up. It was just odd, because Tom Oar lives in Montana too, and was a "mountain man" so i just assumed it was him. Weird that it was a different guy with a very similar name, and one letter different last name and also in montana ha.

[@ericlevine420]

Excellent video Clay Ive been rocking a 10mm for 35 years. I use the same chest rig. A couple of things I run a lone wolf extended barrels with a twist and heavy spring to run buffalo bore 200+ grain bullets I get extra velocity and the choice of ammo is paramount. Cheers to not becoming lunch Eric

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Eric

[@huntman834]

I knew it! A few months ago when Liz said you'd be doing something else other than elk hunting this year, I just knew it was Alaska. That's very exciting

[@clayhayeshunter]

😉we may still be able to squeeze in an early elk hunt.

[@IdahoEagle77]

There is a significant difference between the Alaskan brown bear and the typical inland grizzly bear. The Alaskan brown bear is considerably larger, primarily because of the abundant fish population in its habitat. These bears can weigh up to 1,500 pounds and reach a height of 10 feet. In contrast, typical inland grizzly bears are much smaller and do not come close to these dimensions.

[@j.michaelepstein8958]

So true. I guided fisherman and bear photographers for years on Kodiak and wouldn't stake my life on bear spray or a handgun of less than a .454 Casull.

I was stationed in Alaska 3 years in the military. Let’s just say as you travel north the Predators get bigger and more skilled, all the way to Alaska. As a hunter from Tenn found out. Far as I know they still haven’t found him.

[@michaelderyder426]

And inland grizzlies are also more talented and tolerant of people because of the abundance of food. Inland grizzlies, while not as big, are much more fierce.

[@shadowcastre]

Interesting video...! My 2 cents... - 10mm is a good caliber but don't buy into the hype that surrounds it. - Remember the 10mm was designed as a man stopper. - Even the hottest loaded 10mm will not come close to the mildest 41 Mag loads. - The closest comparison for the 10mm is the 357 Mag... Its just in a semi-auto. - Capacity only gives a sense of false security. The odds off getting off more than 2 shots accurately at a charging bear is slim to none... with any type firearm. - I'm not a fan of the chest rig especially with the bino combination... what an awkward way to draw. Put the pistol below the binos for improved times. - As you said, a 12 gauge is the best option. Slugs are good but a 2oz buck & ball load is better. - Carrying a short barrel pump shotgun while bow hunting is less cumbersome & problematic if carried correctly on a front carry sling... You wont notice the weight. - The 12 gauge will also be faster to deploy than a hand gun. Drop the bow and your in business with your shotgun. - Make the hand gun your back up. - Whatever your choice of firearm... practice practice practice with your gear and bow in hand. - Bear spray shines on a nuisance bear. In an all out attack... All bets are off?

[@languagesource355]

Agreed and upvoted on 10mm vs. revolvers, however 357 Mag features fairly prominently in successful cases of use, and some recommend it even in Alaska. One advantage of 10mm would be that it's easier to shoot well and fast, even compared to a 357 mag, due to reciprocating slide and lighter trigger. But yes, the lore is exaggerated. It's just barely adequate, a balance between carriability, shootability and performance. As for 12ga, one thing I've read more than once is that shells are not waterproof. Plus something like a lever action in 45-70 or similar would be handier, easier to carry and at least just as potent. Either iron sights or an LPVO set at 1x, with the option for some magnification when needed. Just seems more versatile. Modern actions like Marlin or Henry will take the 45-70 +P with ease. If I was going with 12ga slugs, I'd be picking specifically the Brenneke bear slugs, not mere soft lead ball or foster slugs. All of these are bruisers :)

[@shadowcastre]

@@languagesource355 Some 12 gauge shells are not waterproof... some are. For the ones that are not... a little clear fingernail polish does wonders.

[@languagesource355]

@@shadowcastre sounds good, just something to be aware of 👍I still think a lever action is lighter, handier and easier to use. I do like shotguns, though. And they're more economical and versatile.

[@SAMMIEJONESJUNIOR]

I agree minus one thing, the true 10mm round performs like a 44 magnum. If you need a reference video, check out Grand Thumb 10mm video.

[@shadowcastre]

@@SAMMIEJONESJUNIOR And there's some of the hype that surrounds the 10mm that I was referring to. The video you referenced proves its design as a man stopper.

[@7togethr]

Love that 10mm, Clay. I'm going to get one of those. Nice work on the range. A shot timer really tells the tale and shows progress. Great practice session! Nice doing it with a good friend that can time and point out flaws and encourage progress... Great video. Thanks, Clay!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thank ya

[@jebkermen6087]

"the more we're aware the more time we get" dame strait, and I would call this the first rule of self defense.

[@jimf1964]

Lookin good Clay. I was taught to draw a little differently, but you seem to be doing fine, and you already have at least one coach 🙂. One thing you can do, and bonus, it doesn’t require ammo, is to draw eyes closed, then check where it’s aiming, like a million times. It helps make aim more instinctive, and shows up errors in grip, so you won’t need to compensate. Also I will say though that your stance and target won’t always be the same, so once your comfy with your speed, start to have to swing around to a target beside you or different angles. Maybe even from squatting down like you’re working on something. It’s not the same thing as being in a constant stance and constant target. Good luck on the trip. I’m sure everyone watching will be excited to see it.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I’ve seen others recommend that. Thanks for the reminder

[@TOPHAT1966GS]

For wet conditions and / or humid conditions or sweating conditions, it will be worth 6 to 10 dollars to get a spray called Grip It. Grip It is activated by moisture, be it rain, humidity, or sweating. It will reduce the firearm from slipping out of your hands, but you'll have to practice with this on your hands to make sure it doesn't interfere with the draw.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I’ll check that out

[@scottvincent5287]

Probably the best video I have ever seen on this subject. Very in depth information alot of people are not aware of. Couldn't think of much to add. If people are getting all of this information and practicing it? They will probably be practicing and studying enough to catch those things I would suggest on their own. Absolutely great information to get out there. Good job Clay, will be up in Alaska potentially the same time. I hope you have a great hunt👍

[@clayhayeshunter]

You too

[@cjhusn777]

In regards to finding your grip and getting familiar with the pistol: Dry fire, dry fire and more dry fire.

[@withoutfurtheradoforever]

Clay, I'd suggest some of your practice be done in full hunting kit and while walking. Practice hitting the target in all directions relative to your direction of travel. Good luck on the hunt!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Will do

[@nicolatesla768]

Good advise guys! Not sure why the chest rig has become a standard for Bear defense carry. Slow to draw, arm has to move in a more unnatural motion. Personally I carry a G20 5" ported barrel, red dot, in appendix IWB holster. Or in a OWB holster at 3 o'clock position in Bear country.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I went with it because I’ll have a pack on and off many times in a day. A waist holster just wouldn’t work.

[@JL-xn3zy]

Cool to see Mickey on this. He does great training through Carry Trainer. Highly recommend him.

[@Couldhavebeensomeone]

Pull straps/tuck sleeves that can sit at the front of your hip, where your hand naturally hangs, can cut off 1/2 a second. No strap, flap, or posture change necessary.

[@stewforwords]

I'll never forget what the rangers said to me and my crew after the bear orientation when we went to Glacier Nat. Park for a Boy Scout trip. You're required to carry bear spray, but they said don't use it as it would just piss the bear off..

[@Washoejim]

As for the getting the proper grip, I recommend watching the WW2 handgun training video when they talk about obtaining the proper grip on the 1911 and apply that training to modern handgun of today.

[@rafiahmad4429]

This coach is very good👍 I need some help from a guy like this…

[@jameswhitaker1324]

8:06 there’s also the point that if you’re hunting in archery season in Washington, at least, you are permitted to carry a sidearm for defense. You’re not permitted to carry a long gun. Looks you’re carrying a long slide. Also, because you’re using a red dot, so you don’t need the long sight radius. The long slide offers more opportunity to fumble the draw. There may be a slight ballistic advantage, but it seems the handling properties of a standard slide length might serve you better. Also, recoil recovery will be a little faster with a shorter slide, just physics. Just a thought.

[@UncleDanBand64]

You made massive improvements. So, good teacher and student.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thank ya

[@ItsDburch]

One thing worth mentioning. Red dots are great, my primary pistol has one. With that being said, a Headlamp shining on the window at night will totally wash out the dot AND the target. This is one area where iron sights are better than red dots.

[@ivandejanovic4963]

Fantastic video Clay. Not sure how much experience you have prior to this shooting a pistol but it shows. I wish I had an opportunity to practice like that. In Serbia getting a firearm legally is hard and ammo is expensive. During my mandatory military service as an MP I had five training sessions on the range with CZ99, Serbian military copy of Sig Sauer 226, and I got to shoot under 40 round counting all sessions which is not nearly enough to get muscle memory. Especially if you never shoot a firearm before. I hope you have a great time in Alaska. What I would be interested in is a video about how you practiced shooting your bow with the added pistol rig and a review video after the Alaska trip on how different was hunting and shooting the bow with the added weight and bulk of the gun rig. Edit: Also would be interested to hear how the red dot setup worked in Alaska. Read online that they can have issues in cold weather.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks for the idea!

[@tundrafunk7402]

Many of us in Alaska choose to not use a red dot due to the moisture and temperature swings during hunting season.

[@MThomas001]

Mickey is an awesome instructor to have. Nice work with a pistol.

[@tonylatham5915]

I relate it to hitting a turn signal on a Dodge pickup coming at you at 35 mph on a rough road.

[@dawnfirephotography]

Going solo into Grizzly country for the first time this summer so this video was helpful. I'm not going out and buying a 10mm since I'll be crossing the Canadian border via driving but perhaps if I ever fly into Alaska I know what to bring with me. The comments were very helpful as well! Great content lately.

[@martinep6293]

Solo? The magic number is 4. The likelyhood of an attack is much lower with groups of 4. (So, bears can count.😂... they clearly count their cubs too ) Do not assume the black bears in Canada (Alberta) behave the same way as those in NM or CO...

[@bobwiese6128]

Excellent segment. TY

[@OnHolliday]

I've got a Kimber 10mm, lacks the capacity of the Glock counterparts but with the Wilson Combat mags I get 9+1 and with the little bit of extra weight with the steel slide and frame I've found that I can get follow up shots off notably faster.. and I have smedium hands so the 1911 is much easier for me to keep a firm grip on. I don't often find myself in any danger of encountering a bear and in Kentucky it'd be a black bear anyway so I think 10 rounds is sufficient. One piece of advice I'd offer and I'm sure you've already gotten it, make sure to use full power 10mm loads from Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, etc. A 200gr pill should be moving along at 1200fps+, a 220 a little slower. Most manufacturers are only pushing a 200gr pill to about 1050, usually significantly less, which is 40s&w territory. Stay safe out there, looking forward to watching your adventures from the safety of my living room!

[@ls7196]

Types of ammunition and loads should have been mentioned in video, like you implied, there is 10mm and then there is 10MM.!!!

[@mojomanmurph1925]

Correct ammo choice makes the biggest difference if you will live through an encounter or not.

[@madamecampsalot6384]

I found this video both fascinating and unnerving.

[@fks-pv8il]

Exactly why I bought a Glock 20! My bino case has the holster directly to my bino harness! Alaska guide creations.

[@snowah975]

Clay I get that you’re sponsored by Vortex so obviously you gotta rock the vortex binos… but since you’re sponsored by the Firstlite/Meateater conglomerate I don’t understand why you would jury-rig the gunfighters Kenai holster behind your bino harness when you could get an FHF gear bino harness with the specially made razco holster that perfectly attaches your G20 to the harness for FREE… just seems like that would be a safer setup and get your shot time even lower than 1.5…

[@boucherwag_7771]

Underwood makes good 10mm ammo. Has a little bite to it.

[@EthanPageHunter]

Awesome stuff! It’s so critical to put odds in your favor when dealing with four and even two legged predators. I would encourage you to add another drill to your practice and that’s “backplate shooting” also called instinctive. The name is exactly as it sounds… draw from carry location, press out, cover target with the backplate of the slide and pull the trigger. If the target is close, there is no reason to rob valuable time with sights. The backplate is directly behind the barrel so if its covering the target than send rounds. I train with this drill specifically for up close and personal where time matters. But if you have the time. Use those sights.

[@flattenedprimer-hz6vw]

A couple were killed in Banff last year by a Grizzly. They found two empty bear spray canisters at their camp. Unfortunately for the couple, the bear was determined regardless of the discomfort of pepper spray. Rare, but illustrates the limitations of pepper spray. A hunter was badly injured by a Grizzly this spring in Elkford BC. He surprised the bear and it charged him. He was able to get off a fatal shot on the bear, but the bear was able to inflict massive damage before succumbing to the bullet. CNS or shoulder shots are needed to stop a bear in the time needed to prevent injury.

[@crazytimes9989]

This was amazing. Thank you so much.

[@danadouglass9028]

I've got that exact same set up G40 and the kenai chest rig, and that was my carry gun for Alska.

[@al3724]

I am a dental hygienist by training. I have researched this subject extensively and can assure you grizzly bears don't brush their teeth after a meal.

[@garbinator09]

OH!!! But what about those brown bear commercials showing poppa and little bears cleaning their butts with Charmen TP???

[@al3724]

@@garbinator09 Wrong end of the bear.

[@rockytopwrangler2069]

@@garbinator09 .. gimmick commercial ,, everyone knows that bears wipe with rabbits ... they(the rabbits) say sh#t don't stick to their fur ....

[@Stephon723]

Good stuff. Now I don't have to explain to people why I went with the glock forty. You explained it perfectly. Its my hunting side arm AKA panic cannon. Same set. Up , but a different chest holster which I will be replacing

[@harveymiller4455]

I have had the experience of getting really close to big Alaskan Grizz while whitewater kayaking in that wonderful state in the Wrangell Mtns. Good luck with your handguns and bear spray. A big grizzly is a huge force of nature. Unless you scare them or provoke them they go about their business. Good video. Gotta love my glocks.

[@Dirk_Mcgurk]

bear necessities

[@mr-oq2kq]

Enjoyed that and learned some things. Thanks

[@clayhayeshunter]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@BushcraftTexas]

I use a g20 and g29. Living on a farm and having to dispatch hogs I raise (upto 600 pounds) you will be very impressed with real world ballistics. Last cycle I processed a 1000 pound steer. No issue for the 10mm in full house.

[@kevinrichardson8859]

In those controlled environments...for processing a 9mm fmj can and will do the same thing

[@rockytopwrangler2069]

@@kevinrichardson8859 ..beef plants I've been to use a .22 lr .....

[@kevinrichardson8859]

@@rockytopwrangler2069 22lr solids from a pistol or rifle?

[@224valk4]

I live in black bear country. When im out calling coyotes, i also carry my .357 mag! Last set, im looking around & right next to me is bear scat!

[@Art_Of_Stew]

I typically carry a .45 caliber, is that not adequate? What about if using hollow points or FMJ’s? Awesome content and I would greatly appreciate any advice/feedback.

[@jamescooper2618]

Good video Clay, Thanks!

[@johnw4999]

I’ve been a huge 10mm fan for over 30 yrs and still EDC the cartridge. With that, it kills me to hear people think the 10mm is too powerful for defense from violent human threats. It’s only ~200-300 fps faster than the .40S&W (short and weak as some call it). Think of the 10mm & 40 like the 9mm & .380; .357 & .38; .45 Long Colt & .45 ACP etc. Listening to many about the 10mm, they sound like the 10mm is a .500 Magnum, smh. We might as well rename the 10mm to 40S&W long. Only the tippy top hottest 10mm loads producing 700ish foot pounds of energy comes remotely close to a .41 Magnum. That analogy stems from the 90s with the 10mm 175gr. Silvertip that we all know is a lackluster 10mm load.

[@mountainmanmilitia3806]

Happy to see you're carrying some extra firepower heading to Alaska. Love your channel, man. I've got a 7.5in Ruger Redhawk in 44mag I carry for bear defense or for handgun hunting which I enjoy about as much as bow hunting. Safe travels and look forward to seeing your adventures.

[@machiner5150]

Great video and excellent work to both of you. That is how you get proficient with a handgun. Long time glock fan here. I'm sure you know this, but always use caution when reholstering a handgun to make sure there's nothing that could get inside the trigger guard during that forward motion - clothes, nylon straps, etc. That's the most likely point for an accidental discharge.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Excellent point

[@BushcraftExplorer]

I recently purchased a 10mm also and started taking safety classes. Grizzly Bears in my area are a concern also. I was told to get a chest holster also just because your gun is less likely to get caught in thick brush while bush-wacking and if a Bear rolls you - you can tuck up into a ball and still reach for your gun allot easier at the same time. Hard Cast bullets are better for bear, so be sure to have those for bear protection. I wish you the best on your Alaska Adventure! Stay Safe!

[@paullogan8303]

Amazing stuff. Enjoyed this footage. I’m Always looking to Improve on shooting techniques. Thanks for the tips and tricks.

[@GrinWhenUFight]

Great content Clay. In regard to a previous comment/advice given to you to "adjust your grip" in follow-up shots...I've been in the infantry in the military (USMC), I was a veteran police officer on the largest P.D. in the southeastern U.S. and served on one of their SWAT teams for several years where we had ongoing and extensive firearms training with many proven experts, including special forces operators. I've also competed on a local and regional level in speed shooting and hunted my entire life. Having said all of this, it doesn't mean that I know it all, nor do I pretend to...however, maybe the content writer misspoke, or meant something else, but I've never, ever, heard someone advise to "adjust your grip" in a combat or otherwise life-threatening situation. Just don't do it and certainly do not train that way. If he was talking about moving the weapon around in your hand even slightly during follow-up shots - this is dead wrong IMHO. Rather, practice your draw stroke in dry fire training regularly. Do this over and over until your initial grip and draw stroke becomes second nature. Then your hand will naturally grip the weapon and draw it to point of aim properly in a high stress situation. I often do 5 to 10 sets of 10 draws finishing each draw with a point of aim and a dry fire on a snap cap always maintaining my sight picture with the first shot (which is crucial). I start off very slowly and then draw faster and faster as I progress through the reps and sets. It doesn't take long at all to become proficient and have a proper draw and presentation under stress. Of course, safety first, make sure you are unloaded, triple check. Frankly, everyone who carries concealed and every law enforcement officer and hunter should do this training however they holster and carry. No offense to the writer of that comment - maybe he meant something else by "adjust your grip". Anyway, just don't want anyone out there wasting precious time a combat or "bear" situation thinking they should adjust their hand on the grip in between shots. Thank you and God bless all.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Definitely, the grip has to start in the holster. I think Mickey covered that pretty well.

[@MiddleOutdoorsman]

I'm only about 11 minutes in, I have to get moving here soon, but just two points I wanted to make thus far: - Personally, I find marksmanship with a handgun is a perishable skill. You'll retain fundamentals from repetition, but the size of your group will change over time from small to large from lack of practice. Just something to be conscious of. - Check out Razco holsters. It's become my favorite rig. Clips on to the bottom of your bino harness, everything is out of the way, and you can wear it as a stand alone chest rig depending on what bino harness your using. I use a Marsupial, and i can detach the shoulder straps and clip them directly to the holster, leaving my bino rig back at camp if I want to.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thank ya

[@warrantcav4347]

A word to the wise. Don't leave your bear spray in a vehical in the summer. It can explode. Learned that lesson the hard way.

[@richardsmith7539]

Clay, choose your 10mm ammo carefully. Many factory-made 10mm rounds produce no more velocity than a .40, while purporting to be +P on the box. Also, stay away from hollowpoints for bear defense; hard lead-cast or FMJs have sufficient penetration, while JHPs generally don't. Better yet, carry custom-made ammo. PM me when you're coming up to AK, and I'll give you some decent ammo for your 10mm. (Let me know the make, model, and bbl length of your weapon.)

[@clayhayeshunter]

Many thanks

[@JCHumongous]

I dropped my 10mm for a 500 magnum. The reason is that as I looked into many bear attack scenarios, no matter what firearm they had they got an average of one to two shots off before the animal was on them. So the way I figure it, that first shot is paramount and it better be capable of stopping the animal with one shot. Secondly, I don’t believe recoil would even be a consideration under those conditions. I bet if you survived, you’d never remember the recoil. Yeah, when you’re safely on the range, recoil is an issue. You get an 800lb. Bear coming to kill you? You’ll never notice recoil and might not even remember hearing the shot.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good points. But, for me, the ability to practice a lot and be able to afford it is also a big deal.

[@sanddan525]

Take your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Around 15 min mark you shot once and started to reholster. Not only did you point the gun at your chest but you had your finger on the trigger when you did it. Finger should point along the barrel at all times until your are going to shoot. If shooting multiple rounds that’s different, but when you stop get that finger off the trigger. Lots of people shoot themselves or bystanders due to poor gun handling. Never point the gun at your body unless your finger is off the trigger and even then it’s a bad idea. The trigger can catch on your clothes or holster. Best if it’s pointing in a safe direction when that happens.

[@rickm4295]

I have my draw to 1st shot down to .7 seconds with consistent hits. Thats from appendix though and not from my chest. Secret is to not try to go fast believe it or not. Keep practicing and practicing and practice some more. You are in good hands with Mick for sure

[@Swearengen1980]

I use the Kenai chest holster for my Springfield 10mm. Love the setup, the only slight knock is that Kenai can be very tight. It took a little work to get a smoother draw and still have great retention.

[@BlackMamba-ec4dn]

I was stationed in Valdez AK at a Coast Guard unit, and Grizzlies wake up in the spring hungry. When it’s quiet, they walk through downtown Valdez looking for anything to eat, and people are on the menu! Mostly pets, so if you have a dog in your backyard, you have to have a cage built over the backyard to keep the bears from eating rover! During the summer when the sun never sets, I walked out of a bar at 4am walking home. Across the street from the bar, two huge Grizzlies trying to climb over a dumpster barrier to get what was in it! To get home I had to walk right past that gas station, so I went the other way to my Coast Guard ship and crashed out🤣🤣 Do not think for a second that a Grizzly won’t eat a human, food becomes scarce up in that mountain range that surrounds Valdez, so they come down to eat anything that moves! They don’t like noise, but when it’s quiet pay attention to your surroundings! This is a true story from someone who was stationed and lived in Valdez AK for 3 years!

[@cosimosanfilippo9050]

Nice tutorial, there is so much to learn from the experts constantly. I like all kind of shooting, I wish I could do more of it. I like clay target as well of course. I noticed you are left eye dominant, but rite handed, How you handling Clay target (if you practice it of course),and any tips in regard would be appreciated.

[@roblegeny9511]

Instead of bear spray we should come up with emergency flame throwers.

[@clayhayeshunter]

🔥 🤣

[@rockytopwrangler2069]

...Only you can prevent forest fires ...

[@adrianlouviere7650]

You guys are so good. Thanks!

[@locksbog4270]

Great demonstration fellas! 👍😃✌️🇺🇸💪

[@randynester7933]

Great video guys. How about if the bear makes contact with you. If you are using a semi auto, the bear is on you, your muzzle makes contact with the bear, and then you have slide lock. You won’t have time to rack the slide to clear the malfunction. With a revolver, you could push the muzzle into it and continue to discharge rounds. Something to think about.

[@clayhayeshunter]

There’s definitely pros and cons to both.

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Cant wait for the alaskan hunting content, looks like your ready

[@samuelferrell9257]

If a bear comes at you from a dead stop, it can cover one length of it's body in one second. At two seconds it can cover twice that distance again because it has gained speed. At 2 seconds and bear can cover 3x it's body length. If it's a six foot bear it can cover 18 feet in two seconds. If it's a seven foot bear it can cover 21 feet in two seconds. That's from a dead stop. They are fast.

[@luvadane]

Hugh Glass liked this video

[@ActualSurvivalist]

USGS and everyone who does bear training also teaches to have a set distance, in your mind, that you will fire at, when charged.

[@douglasroseveare7295]

I agree 100%. The 10 mm is a very capable round. It packs a solid punch and mag capacity is a big deal. Trying to reload a revolver when a bear is charging would be a cluster screw. Also I like the point you guys made about different body types. I think it is bad advice for anyone who is instructing people on defense in the woods to have a minimum caliber size for everyone who encounters bear. Like you say, an average 110lb person will have a very hard time controlling a .44 or larger so it is detrimental in practice situations leave alone an actual survival situation with a 1500lb Grizzly. Say a 110 pound person buys a .44 or .460 and practices with it only to find they can't control the recoil and start anticipating that instead of placing a good first shot and getting back on target for a solid follow up shot. Bad things will happen in an actual life or death scenario in the bush if that is the gun they chose. I would rather pick an eyeball with a 9mm than miss with a .44

[@familyonamissiongo4790]

44 mag is the Alaskan standard Biggest thing is don’t shoot until he is close enough, be prepared by time it is within 45’, don’t shoot until he is less than 30’, and only if he is in a committed charge A bear will often do a bluff charge and stop If the bear doesn’t have powder burns on it then you may be getting a couple tickets from fish and game Know how many bullets that your pistol holds and don’t use the last bullet or last confident shot until the bear hits the end of the barrel And make sure to step out of the way so the bear doesn’t break your legs as it goes by at a slide 30 years in bear country, 19 spent in the Alaskan bush

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good tips

[@acidichunt7379]

I kinda figured in the bush more people would have rifles or like he mentioned a 12 gauge with some slugs. I mean, as a side arm I'm sure 10mm pretty good, scare the predator off at any rate with the noise and round volume but peopledont just have a rifle on hand out there?

[@lawman5511]

I was a firearms instructor for 25 years. In my department, we had ten percenters. Ten percent of the cops were proficient. The rest were average to marginal. Depending on a handgun under stress, taking commitment and lots of practice was not in the mix. Probably not much different for hikers in the backcountry.

[@ManInTheWoods76]

I was attacked by a black bear at 19. I lived because I had an SKS with me. To this day, I have a gun... For bear, for men.

[@HoneyBadger0704]

I’d be interested to hear the story if you’re willing to share more. I live in the Ozarks and there’s black bears here. I’m in the woods fairly often but I’ve never encountered one personally. The other predators of any concern to me in my area would be mountain lions. I’ve never encountered a mountain lion either thankfully, but I’ve heard stories from a couple different people of sightings in the area.

[@mojomanmurph1925]

@@HoneyBadger0704 Mountain lions usually go after small animals, children but have been known to come after grown adults. They can ambush their prey 60ft up in a tree and drop down, hide very well in the right plant coverage like bushes, etc. Very silent stealthy creatures in the wild. They are triggered by fast movement and why most adult human attacks have been bicyclist and runners. When they lock onto something, they are laser focused and engage quickly. They go after the throat to suffocate their prey. Cover neck.

[@loren-zen-way7699]

Just had my first Bear encounter, he was walking thru the lake towards my camp , didn't see me. I stood up and put my hand straight out and yelled Hey Bear ,Hey Bear. He froze. Then I kept yelling while I clapped my hands over my head loudly. He turned and ran off. It was a black bear with a summer coat which made him look more brown.Pretty good size bear. Wish I could have snapped a picture. Just glad he left me alone.

[@GCSimons]

That’s a sweet set up

[@jimmerseiber]

I was charge by a grizzly in montana.. when one cub ran by us. I was working at the going to the sun hotel in glacier national park right by resevervation land. The mother came up on us to fast. Thank goodnesss she followed the cub who kept going. My friend had a gun. My other friend had bear spray. None of us had time to react whatsoever. The next week we yelled off not only a wolverine.. but saw a baby moose in a pond with the mother not far away. Was the craziest summer of my life.

[@les3449]

IMO the potentially best option may be to have the gun in your hand when going through dense brush. I know, that's potentially awkward and maybe dangerous to YOU but that will greatly reduce your time. You should practice going through some brush with an empty pistol in hand and see what it's like. Just a suggestion from an old LE instructor.

[@larrycowden2271]

Check out the Marsupial binocular pack and the under the pouch holster. It fits my Glock 40 MOS just fine and you can get a full grip quicker.

[@anyseasonoutdoors8222]

Was it difficult transitioning from iron sights to a red dot sight? I’m ordering a new 10mm to transition from my 5 shot 44mag revolver with iron sights. The 10mm will also include a pick rail for an under barrel light. Thanks!

[@LadyintheWoods]

Oh how I’d love to learn from this guy!!

[@crazytimes9989]

Ok I agree. I have it i. My purse at all times. It scares me to use. I don't want to get it in my eyes.

[@Zamotak]

Wind is definitely an issue when it comes to pepper spray or mace. I have used it extensively and have been around it being deployed more times than I can count working in the prison system. It honestly works best indoors with no air movement. Outside with any sort of wind it loses its trajectory. Trying to position myself with the wind correctly when a bear is charging is not at all a option. I would carry both if I can. Options are always good.

[@timetraveler1973]

i can understand the 10mm if you travel light and if you go with the glock you want a wolf barrel that isnt polygonal rifling because then you can huff out heavy hard cast lead as fast as ur finger goes.

[@aldehorte]

This video would have been good with only the guy wearing the chest rig. The other DB was annoying. 10mm in a chest rig is a great option. Thanks for the advice.