What I Learned From My Biggest Trading Loss

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Many of our Bear Bull Traders members saw how I lost $2M in 2022 like a boss! Comment your worst trade so far. I hope it's not as big as mine.
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[@mikestarks8464]

i lost over $4 million in 2007-2008, today i still feel the pain, shame, etc. It was my fault...all my fault. Admitting it on youtube takes guts...thanks for the transparency and also if any of you reading this are contemplating suicide due to losses (trust me...many do) reach out to me and i will try to help. There's a light at the end of the tunnel and life will get better.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@JoeDoebler]

Awesome stories guys! I've heard you mention the TNA loss a few times in the chatroom and I always wondered what happened, thanks for sharing this

[@BearBullTraders]

Our pleasure!

[@rgarri6396]

The lesson is, don’t day trade! Invest in a index fund and hold forever! I traded for years and paid a lot of tax and went nuts.

[@BearBullTraders]

that's not the lesson, the lesson is to manage the risk correctly.

[@Ilikecheese362]

@@BearBullTradersno, he got the lesson right 🗿

[@nabilsn411]

​@@Ilikecheese362you are wrong

[@slateisa]

Use Roth IRA for day trading, 100% tax free.

[@antonthery1497]

Warning: long post. For me, I practiced in SIM for 11 months. I invested heavily into the books, practice, software, computers, etc. I actually think I 'overpracticed.' The reason: I was overconfident and thought I was invincible. I felt I could trade in my sleep because I was consistently in the green day in and out in SIM. Furthermore, I kinda disregarded the psychological aspect of it. I've always been a down-to-earth guy with no mental illness issues of any kind so I sorta put psychology aside. Big mistake. My first three trading days were July 5th-7th (2022). I made a killing. My 1-min ORB strategies I learned from Andrew went off. I was ecstatic. I had arrived after all the long 11 months of practice. Friday, July 8th goes down as the worst day of my 41 years of existence. It was a classic "hulk" day. In one day, I lost 2.5 times what I had made the first three. It never dawned on me until too late that those loses pushed me into a mindset of "making it back" rather than "executing your strategy with your daily goal or stop loss." The spiral continued until I crossed below the PDT threshold. After a bad trade, I went from trader to investor. With the obvious macro economic issues that have pushed us into a bear market, my poor decisions has put my wife and children in financial risk--and it's all my fault. It almost feels like I cashed in my man-card. I work in the non-profit sector, so money doesn't come easily. I can't work overtime to make extra funds. I hope and pray I can begin to day trade again within this year (2023) or perhaps in 2024. I know now that I will be extraordinaly militant against myself. The advice I would give a new trader is this: In the early stages of trading, never celebrate a green day. Don't pop the top because you had 4 green days that week. Pop the top if you honored your stops and walked away at your max loss. I think you'll be a WAY better trader if you'll celebrate the days you walked away red while honoring stops and max loss than doing what I did. From $40,000-$30,000: stops/max loss weren't a 'big' deal. $30,000-$27,500: I better take stops/max loss a 'little' serious. $27,500-$25,000: 'Bigger' deal, but should've been the biggest deal. Under $25,000: Crap, it's too late. It may take me a while, but I'll be back...and I'll be better. For now, I'll just have to survive. I hope this story proves helpful to new--and experienced--traders.

[@BearBullTraders]

That's a great story and a powerful lesson to learn. Losing 2.5 times what you made in just one day is a tough experience, but it's important to remember that you can learn from experiences like this. Celebrating a successful execution of a strategy, rather than green days, is a great mindset to adopt. Good luck on your journey and I hope you come back stronger!

[@BearBullTraders]

🔥 I know I was an idiot last year. I know...but what do YOU think about my TNA loss? What was your biggest loss and what you learned?

[@mikekerr5940]

Love the honesty Andrew and Ardi, Thank you 🙏

[@BearBullTraders]

Our pleasure!

[@BearBullTraders]

thx buddy, and please join back next year. :)

[@sachaboxell]

Thanks for sharing. This is why for bearish ideas I only buy puts rather than shorting the stock, so that the losses are capped.

[@BearBullTraders]

Good point! It's good to hear that you have a strategy in place to manage your bearish positions. Buying puts is a common strategy used to profit from a stock's decline while limiting potential losses. This can be a good way to hedge against potential market downturns while still participating in the market. Just remember to always consider the risk-reward relationship and diversify your portfolio to manage overall risk.

[@sengheng3870]

Thank you for honesty and sharing your thoughts

[@susanrizzi7195]

Thanks Andrew & Ardi☺️. You mention scaling up isn’t as easy as just adding shares; there’s a psychological component that comes into play… a lot of us are working hard to scale up… maybe you could discuss some of these psych challenges and how to overcome them so we’re better prepared to handle as they arise. Sleep well💚💚🙏🙏

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing! Yes agreed! You need to go slowly!

[@LawrenceChung]

great that you guys mentioned about sizing up and the psychology related to it. I started sizing up (doubled size yesterday, as my previous trades were more a prove of concept, I was constantly losing on commission), and I started to notice I've been putting a lot of my hope and dreams into the mkt as if I am asking the mkt to fulfil them for me. It's constantly at the back of my mind and i am thinking this may just be the new normal as I size up. good to see that I am not the only one who struggles sizing up

[@BearBullTraders]

We all had the same issues when we started!

[@mitchellgertz5363]

You can’t tell stories like this enough. I think traders need to hear these types of anecdotes regularly. It’s easy to forget and return to bad habits.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@luciovallarta3730]

I did the opposite, I turned my long-term investment into day trading. In March 2020 I bought CVNA, I had been watching the stock since 2017, I ran a DCF model that estimated the intrinsic value around $145. Based on Buffett's teachings, at $54 this stock was offering me great margin of error. However, I wasn't ready for the V-reversal and making 100% return in 2 months. I realized I could make more money day trading it around levels so I decided to turn half of my position into a day trading account. I was making 10% per month for all the wrong reasons! Not stopping out, adding to losing positions, and turning day trades into swings. Eventually in August 2020 I took a 30% drawdown in a week! I had no idea how to psychologically deal with this loss. I had spent almost a decade in the banking & financial advising world so I felt like I knew what I as doing, which I did on the investing side, but not on the day trading side. Before I knew it CVNA was at $250 and my FA had completely gone out the window! I realized I was lucky to not have blown up an account day trading. That's when I decided to join BBT and realized I still had a long learning journey ahead of me.

[@BearBullTraders]

It sounds like you experienced a common challenge many day traders face: the psychological impact of losses. Day trading requires a different mindset than long-term investing, and it's important to have a solid plan in place to manage emotions and stay disciplined. Joining BBT to continue your education and improve your skills was a smart move. The key to success in day trading is to learn from past experiences and continually work on improving. Best of luck on your trading journey!

[@funfairable]

One of the best videos ever from you guys. It will definitely help traders that they’re not alone, and must always have a plan before entering a position, never average down, stop loss is a must.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you so much for watching!

[@paulcostante4002]

Tremendous story, even more tremendous talent you have... I know what it feels like to see 2 million go south. Its very... Very painful.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing. It takes a lot of courage to admit a heavy loss in trading. Have you learned anything valuable from an experience like this?

[@wunchh]

Hilal here. I remember the Yelp day well Andrew and watched it happen live. Kudos for owning your losses and talking about them.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you Brother!

[@stevenm936]

Videos like this bring you closer to us, reminding us that no one is infallible. Thank you for sharing this. Now we know you are human!

[@BearBullTraders]

You are so welcome!

[@BearBullTraders]

Question is why still following me :) after that idiotic trade.

[@yolobiz6450]

Well most are really.. Day trading is gambling basically playing against the house (which has an edge of 80% thanks to the power of an algo computer, where they see everybody's bet, stop loss, orders, etc.). Technical, charts, analysis are an illusion they provide us to keep dreaming not to mention they also make money out of it.

[@JohnRaaf]

Again, Andrew and Ardi, thanks for taking the time to share these stories/lessons with us. See you in San Diego!

[@BearBullTraders]

Our pleasure! Always happy to share and help out. Looking forward to meeting you in San Diego! Let's make the most out of the experience!

[@twoweelr]

I appreciate your honesty. Good advise

[@BearBullTraders]

I appreciate that!

[@edwardortiz8485]

Love how honest you are. Makes me feel more comfortable and willing to listen. Keep keeping it real! 🔥

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you! Will do!

[@upendrab]

Jeez!! 2M$$ is a lot of money Andrew, but look at it from another angle - today you are in a position to absorb that loss and make up for it in a year or two. Did you ever imagine when you started out that you would be in a position to lose 2M? So that's great progress in terms of you scaling up and getting to this level. Something similar on a much smaller scale happened to me with AMD last year, I kept averaging down to finally end up with average cost of $117, it's now trading @76 and had gone even lower earlier. Basic mistakes, did not set a stop loss, kept averaging down hoping it would climb up, and then the fatalistic feeling that it has already fallen by 40%, no point in selling it now 🙂 Just keep it and hope someday it'll rise up to it's highs. Thanks for sharing this as it is important to respect the market and follow your own rules!!

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for the encouraging words! Yes, losses are a part of trading and the important thing is to learn from them and move forward. It takes discipline and patience to follow our own rules and stay focused on our long term goals. Glad to hear you're able to relate and learn from your own experiences.

[@Vikas-bp3jk]

Finally AMD is up..happy for you

[@PuppetMaster_01]

good stuff. more from that please

[@BearBullTraders]

Glad you liked it!

[@gabrielhardin54]

Thank you for sharing, I know it has to be hard, our kind typically have too much pride to admit such losses. However, learning what not to do is sometimes more beneficial than learning what to do, especially with such great examples. As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[@BearBullTraders]

Absolutely!! Thanks for sharing!

[@buejose]

Thank you Andrew and Ardi, appreciate this.

[@BearBullTraders]

Our pleasure!

[@adamortner7172]

Great video. I remember Aardi saying (in his book) Stock Market a Beginner's Guide to Investing and Trading, that the first year of trading doesn't count. He is right. There is so much learning going on. It was good to hear that even the extremely knowledgeable traders have losses. Thanks Andrew and Aardi.

[@Ritikkapoor2204]

Name of Aardi’s book?

[@adamortner7172]

@Ritik Kapoor Thanks, please see edited comment.

[@BearBullTraders]

A Beginner's Guide to Investing and Trading in the Modern Stock Market 👉 amzn.to/3bEnU0a 🆕Spanish version amzn.to/3F1VZmP

[@JR-eq6jz]

TNA and any other levered etf are based on options so they all have time decay. They should only be used for day trades or short term swings. They rarely make or retake their old highs after long drops even as the underlying index etf might make a new high. They can also go to 0 in extreme volatility and be closed out. Seen it a few times.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@oleggl1]

Thanks for sharing. My biggest lost was ~30k when I first started messing with options and also was from averaging down. :(

[@BearBullTraders]

Ouch I am sorry Oleg, how did it happen? Can you tell exactly on what?

[@alexonthepalmtree]

Thank you guys for sharing!

[@BearBullTraders]

Our pleasure!

[@questioneverything9761]

If you can make $500 a week , you can make $1000 a week. I think he misconstrued that quote. The point to that quote is , you need to wait till your balance increases. You do t increase risk percentage wise. Percentages stay the same. You have to be patient enough to wait till the balance grows or add funds to it. Size is one of the foundations of risk management and risk management is rule zero.

[@BearBullTraders]

Correct, it depends on your buying power, but the key point here is that once you find your niche, and once you are consistent, you can play with bigger size, when starting risk as low as $1, once you find that consistency with small risk you can increase your risk as much as you account allows you to. Thank you!

[@queenwest2018]

Stocks are a scam

[@chadwick1094]

I don't think he misconstrued anything. What most people mean when they say things like that, is how he said. And he is right, there is almost like a complete paradigm shift you have to deal with each time you add a zero to your profit target. When 1 pip goes from being worth $10 when you just came from a place where it was worth $1, all of a sudden losses aren't so small. When you are looking at losing what could be someone's entire pay check on 1 trade, it can cause panic if you aren't prepared with enough experience to fully trust the way you trade.

[@edtico1981]

Thank you for this video. Sometimes, I'm too hard on myself when I lose and don't follow my rules, but we are only humans. Read your book, it was my first book on the stock market. Hope to meet you someday. Not a day trader but still follow you and listen to your advice.

[@BearBullTraders]

I'm glad you found the video helpful and that my book was your first introduction to the stock market. Remember that it's normal to make mistakes and lose money as a trader, and it's important to not be too hard on yourself. Remember, we are all human and we all make mistakes. The key is to learn from them and use them as opportunities to improve your trading strategies. I'm glad you follow my advice and keep an eye on my work. It's always great to hear from readers who have taken something valuable from my work, and I'm flattered that you found my book helpful. I hope to meet you someday and if you ever have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out!

[@steved1021]

Andrew & Ardi, Thank you SO much for your honesty re this business. I am SO fortunate to sit under your tutelage rvery single day as a member of BBT. You are incredible instructors to us neophyte traders

[@maveri.k]

Great video, thanks

[@BearBullTraders]

Glad you liked it!

[@abeneko3065]

Hi Aziz, I also had the same experience as you, I traded TNA, LABU, and TQQQ, last year. Actually, I have been trading them for many years but did not think they can go down week after week, like last year. After all that I end up losing 2.2M. I am coming back again. interesting that we are both from the same country. with similar backgrounds and education,

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing! It sounds like we both had a challenging trading year. Losing 2.2M is a significant amount and it's understandable that it's hard to come back from such a loss. However, it's important to remember that every trade is unique and that we are not alone in this experience and that others, like yourself, who share similar backgrounds and education have gone through similar situations. It's always good to learn from our mistakes and come back stronger. Best of luck on your future trades!

[@everquestdidi3484]

Good F….ing job Andrew, awesome content , we reading your book.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you! Are you liking the book so far?

[@erici1968]

I had a big loss on Monday avergaing into a loser on a short position and then watched it squeeze me out-- Im still trying to get over it emotionally and psychologically but its hard.

[@BearBullTraders]

Losing money in trading can be difficult to handle, both emotionally and psychologically. It's important to acknowledge and address these feelings, and to seek support if needed. Remember that setbacks are a normal part of the process for many traders, and that it's possible to learn from mistakes and come back stronger. Consider taking a break from trading if you need to, and when you're ready, make a plan for moving forward with a greater focus on risk management.

[@sadiksidhu6406]

Hey @Ardi, @Andrew I remember the price action in TNA very well, the trade was right before we had a Vancouver meetup, the vix was around 25-38.The whole market was Bid off. It was a rough time, I also had my biggest loss around that time, around $10000 in about 30-minutes . But it was about 50% of the account and it made it really hard to crawl back out you know. The moves were so big that everyone wanted to increase their risk. @Jared said something around that time that I still follow. If vix is high, rather than increasing your risk widen your stop like this is something that is obvious now but I didn’t understand then.

[@ELkBEAR-zr5qn]

Thank you Andrew. I had a huge loss too, made every mistake in the book. Absolutely thought I had outsmarted the market. Didn't make me quit though! That's how I ended up ordering your book and joining Bear Bull Traders.

[@BearBullTraders]

I am sorry my friend. What was your loss? Can you share if I may ask?

[@ELkBEAR-zr5qn]

Hi Andrew close to $400K. See you in San Diego!! Juli

[@courtneywatkins9829]

appreciate the honesty; we all make mistakes. sidenote: I sincerely miss Ardi's time as a mod at BBT. Ardi's macro insight is invaluable. i hope Ardi will have a presence in the new options chatroom.

[@dudewheresmyguitar21]

Yep. Thats been SQQQ for me since october. Lost probably $200,000. Never thought the market would go vertical up the entire year every single day. No more stock market for me ever again.

[@BearBullTraders]

Sorry to hear about your loss, I have been there, so I feel for you

[@dudewheresmyguitar21]

@@BearBullTradersthanks man. Now im just all in bonds. Maybe you can help me make back some money, i have 1 million in bonds basically doing absolutely nothing for me

[@devbrown2254]

Loved the book How to daytradr, and Advanced techniques to daytrading

[@petesnap1969]

Watching this video it makes you wonder if he's even read it, let alone wrote it!

[@BearBullTraders]

Wow, that's fantastic to hear! Thank you for taking the time to read and appreciate the content. It means a lot. Let me know if there's anything else I can assist with!

[@mstechjonny8275]

Great video and info. Yup I know the feeling where I have added to losing trade and won 10 times and one time I did not win I lost all money made in 10 trade and plus some more.

[@BearBullTraders]

Glad you liked it!

[@grid2323]

I see you almost every day in the BBT Chatroom when you trade almost perfect, i am a little glad that even you make mistakes sometimes and i think it is great that you openly admit the mistake ✌

[@BearBullTraders]

I appreciate that!

[@keepingitreal6912]

I took a huge loss on a trade once and it changed me. It changed my outlook on things. I’m still trying to get past it and make new goals for myself but that loss still lingers.

[@BearBullTraders]

i am sorry

[@tinytpot]

I think... I love the BBT family... and forecast Andrew will be selling more Puts or whatever meets his trading plan... Way to go on those $TSLA Puts! Glad I joined the Elite membership in December - learning everyday ! Been a fan since Nov 2021 just a TinyTrader😉

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you for your kind words and support! I'm glad you're enjoying your time as an Elite member and that you're learning something new every day. I always strive to follow my trading plan and make the best decisions for my portfolio, whether that means selling puts or something else. I appreciate your support and look forward to continuing to help you and the rest of the BBT family achieve your trading goals.

[@eliaskaweme4785]

Great insight

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for the support! I'm glad you found our insights helpful. Let me know if there's anything else I can assist with.

[@DynamicSynergistics]

My worst trade so far wasn't necessarily a loss, but a failure to realize profit. In the big runup of AMC, I had an unrealized profit of $77K on a swing trade. Unfortunately, I watched $40k of that evaporate in hopes that a 2nd run was incoming. Eventually, I took about $30k in profit which is still my largest swing profit ever but I paid a hefty price for a lesson in the market on that one. What did I learn? That if you're up multiple hundreds of percentage points on a swing trade, after the stock has gone on an absolutely parabolic multi-day, seemingly unstoppable run...you're better off to get the hell out and be happy about it rather than still being unhappy about a very profitable trade. Never again!

[@BearBullTraders]

Wow, that's a tough lesson to learn, but it's valuable nonetheless. I can relate to the feeling of wanting to hold out for more profit but sometimes it's better to take what you have and be happy with it. I appreciate you sharing your experience, it's a reminder that even the most profitable trades can come with a cost!

[@DigitalHalftones]

I have a question for you? If you didn't have this mentality at the time to hold the swing through hundreds of percentage points do you think you would have reached $77k in profit? Your original mentality of letting the stock run was what allowed you to hold it to reach $77k in profit. It's also the same mentality that allowed you to give back more than half of the profit. That's the catch 22 of it. The smart thing is to obviously take some profits at targets and be happy with it, but I remember a lot of posts at the time of GME holders that sold when it dropped back down to $30 and were crying when it went back to $350 without them because they didn't hold with "diamond hands". I believe that second run on GME was a big reason as to why a lot of people were willing to hold onto stocks much longer like you did with AMC as it made it seem possible even though it wasn't the norm. Just to contrast your trade. I traded AMC in May 21' from $10 and sold half when it reached $20, as that was previous resistance and a 100% move, but I held the rest with a higher stop just to see if it would keep going. I then partialled out little by little over the move up with my final trade being around $50. I made $3500 overall, however if I held to the day it went to $72 and sold all of it when it was obvious the move was done I would have made 3 times as much, so from my perspective you risking to hold still played out better even giving more than half back than me being happy to take profits when a stock had done a 100%+ move. The thing I've realized over the years is to not give back more than half of your profits at any point if you are planning to hold as at that point it's better to exit and look for a new trade, but I wouldn't essentially fault you here for being willing to hold longer for the move to possibly continue. I mean if it did do another run to say $100 you would have been happy you held just like those GME holders were when it went back to $350. It's just that it didn't work out on AMC this time so you think I'm glad I sold. It's a hindsight fallacy as you couldn't have known at the time. The important thing is to stick to your plan and if that was to hold for a continuation and risk a little more than half of the profit you made the right call in my opinion.

[@sethaldrich6902]

@@DigitalHalftones yep youre never going to catch the whole thing, the goal is just to get a portion of it.

[@silkroad1201]

I think greed is perfectly normal human behavior, but it's your worst enemy with trading. It's not wrong to want more, but it can work against you

[@tomvalencia4880]

When I was a beginner trader I placed a large trade without a stop loss, then I lost a lot of money, and I panicked and looked for the daily biggest gainer and placed a trade there, and lost some more. I lost around $21,000 in less than 15 minutes.

[@garpllc5199]

Every loss is significant due to the potential growth of that money, as long as it is invested in the right stocks. This mistake is common, regardless of the position size, particularly when fundamentals indicate a recovery. It's a valuable lesson, and I appreciate you sharing your losses. Without that insight, we wouldn’t know that you have also experienced losing money. It certainly encourages me to continue trading and one day, I hope to reach your level. Cheers!

[@BearBullTraders]

I appreciate your kind words and encouragement. Losing money in the stock market is a common experience for many traders, and it's important to remember that it's a part of the learning process. Every loss is an opportunity to learn and improve your approach to trading. It's also important to remember that not all trades/investments will be successful, and it's essential to diversify your portfolio and have a solid risk management strategy in place. I am glad that you found my insights valuable and that it encourages you to continue trading. I wish you all the best in your trading journey, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions or need any advice. Cheers!

[@user-pv7tb3gu1c]

Thanks guys!

[@BearBullTraders]

You're welcome!

[@jsunproter1940]

Thats sucks but Idk why you guys arent hedging rather than using stop with positions. That's what I do

[@Maitreya888]

Biggest lost was around 5 million give and take. NFLX selling strangle. Gap down then proceeded to tank further, volatility incresed, which increased the price and margin requirement . I even added more to try and break even, the nightmare continue with Margin requirement going through the roof, after 2 bad earnings which saw it gap down twice. Broker liquidate my postion and lost it all. The most hard pill to swallow was Nflx did manage to cover a few months later, which I would have at least gone out breakeven, if I had more time or not risk so much.

[@BearBullTraders]

That is a tough experience. Losing such a significant amount must have been incredibly challenging. It's always important to reflect on what went wrong and learn from it, but it's also important to remember that losses are part of the trading journey. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@DreamWalker886]

sharing stories with large losses is really good to remind yourself to trade wisely in the future.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you

[@geleg10]

scaling up/down works pretty well on futures contracts but I would never do it on stocks, too risky

[@BearBullTraders]

Agreed!

[@DreamWalker886]

Yes, shorting 3X ETFs is great on paper, but it can bankrupt you in a very short time as well.

[@BearBullTraders]

It was risky for sure, one of my worst trades

[@lanafeulner4083]

Buy low and sell high. Don't let emotions get in the way. Make sure you research your investments first. Understand your risk tolerance, too!!!

[@BearBullTraders]

Good advice!

[@lanafeulner4083]

Thank you!! @@BearBullTraders

[@nonamenonamenonamenonamenoname]

2018 August, I believe

[@AureateLifestyle]

Hi Andrew, Quick question, regarding your day trading, what dollar amount do you currentky work with? Do you ever put on over $1 million at a time (excluding leverage)? Thank you

[@BearBullTraders]

Hi, my account is quiet large, around 4m; However, I don't always go all in, it depends on the stock, the price of it, and my convinction

[@oleggl1]

But I’m also glad I get this slaps from market cz eventually you learn from that. In order to become more than what you are today and make a new high in life you have to dip down.

[@BearBullTraders]

I completely agree. Losses and setbacks in trading, just like in life, can serve as valuable learning experiences and help us grow and improve. Embracing failures and using them as opportunities to reflect and make changes is an important step towards reaching new highs and achieving greater success. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

[@imadolev]

At 4:06 I see Flat correction. At the end the Elliott Wave is still the ultimate market indicator that will show the trend even if we do day trading. This is still the baseline of this industry and jumping to day trading without knowing this foundation i would say is suicidal.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@DejaVu0]

Great vid. Could you guys elaborate a bit more on the part about linear growth within contracts? Andrew mentioned you can scale up to a certain point then it becomes about psychological. Ardi mentioned you can't go from 5 contracts to 10 and expect a double of the pnl? Curious why not? If you keep your same game plan of partialing and exiting and stops, if not double shouldn't you expect a range of 80-90% more than if you were to have 5 contracts in the first place? Or are we talking about exponentially more than 10 contracts? Like going from 5 to 100 expecting a 2000% return?

[@DigitalHalftones]

It's not necessarily about doubling your pnl if you scale up your strategy. The first issue is usually psychological when you size up from 5 to 10 contracts as the P&L you are seeing is much larger than you are used too. Before you might be used to losing $500 on a trade, but now you look at your P&L and see it's -$900 as your new max loss is $1000. It's in these moments that you start second guessing your trades more and can emotionally make mistakes. For this reason I recommend scaling up around 10% at a time to slowly get used to seeing the new pnl prices. Every trader I know has gone through the sizing up issue as soon as they are seeing some consistency thinking it's as easy as just doing what you did before, but once you are in the trade and see a loss that is 2x or more than you are used too it will mess with you emotionally. I've personally seen a $500 a day consistent trader scale up and end the week with a $50k loss. The first 3 trades just didn't work out and she chased to get back to break even for the rest of the week. It's one of those things you can't really understand until it happens to you. Second reason is scaling strategies only works up to a point. This is dependent on the stocks float and your capital mainly. For example if you are trading a low float penny stock you can probably get away with buying a few 1000 shares, but try buying 10k or more. At that point you are going to have trouble getting filled all at once like you are used too with a smaller size so the strategy no longer works the same. The next is capital. Say you are trying to scale up on SPY for a scalping strategy. It's working well at sub 100 shares, but if you want to say scale up to 1000 shares now you need an account 10 times the size or you have to take on a lot of margin risk to do it, so there is a point to where you can scale up most strategies before they start not working the same.

[@sethaldrich6902]

Yes if you're a robot you can but they were talking about psychologically speaking, alot of people wreck their accounts scaling up too fast when they aren't ready psychologically.

[@BearBullTraders]

Put selling takes a lot of your excess liquidity. going from 5 contracts to 10 requires double the bp. each tick becomes much more significant and your psychology changes. On paper it should be linear, in reality it’s much different

[@hannahdo6430]

😢

[@juanpedromaestrewic9040]

Thank you for being honest.

[@BearBullTraders]

Always!

[@hymansahak181]

95% of stocks go down over time. Only a handful of names drive indexes. And the 20 top names from 20 years ago are not in the top 20 today. So unless your investing in things like VOO and VT or buying a basket of safe dividend stocks like KNGS, you will surely lose money and the more you trade, the more you will lose. It’s very simple.

[@BearBullTraders]

That's interesting! Thanks for the info

[@drjqool]

You'll make it back, bro!

[@BearBullTraders]

thanks brother!

[@user-sl4qu5es4y]

Thanks for sharing such cases, it' very usefull for us. I think the main insight from your history is not to use averege position tactics while using any kind of leverage. It's for most investment tactic. And surely sometimes psycology plays tricks with us regardless of our experiance.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you. what was you biggest loss? What lesson you learned?

[@user-sl4qu5es4y]

It was in crypto market, not too much, but rather painfull psycologically. And again thanks to higher margin then should be.

[@ChrisReath]

Good vid, but I was expecting a trade by trade account of the loss, but maybe that's too painful for you to recount. 😅 Other questions I have are, how do you even move forward as a trader with that kind of loss? When you make 10K the next day do you even feel good about it?

[@BearBullTraders]

Good point!

[@BearBullTraders]

yes, you still have the pain. I still have the memory of that money "I used to" have and still painful really.

[@kevinkidneyy]

I never keep a overly large size in my accounts just in case I get emotional and don’t stop out

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing! It's important to have a risk management strategy in place when trading. Setting appropriate pre-defined stop-loss levels and not risking more than you can afford to lose can help mitigate emotional trading decisions.

[@lukelewkowicz2233]

You two look like a perffect duo to ride TD of Canada to the very end.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you!

[@JAYX1NE]

I’m not sure if any amount of money is worth a life of all the mental mind games, ups and downs, stress, emotions that trading causes.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@lisaconway1212]

💓💓💓💓💓 Love. I just watched a Ted Talk (Rajiv Nathan) about experts & vulnerability this afternoon and the concept that becoming an expert is always knowing that you don't know. Some of the Talk reminded me of you, someone we see continuously succeeding and thinking "friiiick I wanna do that!!!"🤣, but it also reminded me of you being humble and sharing it all, and understanding/helping others understand that it's never all known and a continuous practice. This video is a complete example of that. In Reiki, the Masters level is not to be mixed up with our egos and the idea of knowing it all/being superior, but rather understood as a devotion and commitment to forever being a student on the path. 🥰 You're a Master in more than one way!!! On paper and in spirit.💖🙌🤓🙏

[@sethaldrich6902]

I remember the yelp trade, I felt so bad for you then bc I have been there and done that. Yep risk manageent is key. I think if you're doing options defined risk trades are better, sure you don't make as much but you also don't lose as much.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you Seth! I appreciate your kind words!

[@traderduke2]

Did he say he was short 6000 shares but the loss was only $7,000?

[@sethaldrich6902]

@@traderduke2 not from the beginning, by the end of it he was but his average was higher and it dropped a little and he finally got out.

[@traderduke2]

@@sethaldrich6902 I see. Thanks for posting. But his total loss ended up around 7k, which at that time, was big for him, correct? I was aware of the TNA loss, so the 7k amount just made me curious.

[@JR-eq6jz]

Add to winners. Not losers. As Mark Minervini says: losers average losers. Print it and post it on your wall.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@orogpd4198]

Best video ever, many can relate to.....................................................................................................................

[@BearBullTraders]

Glad it was helpful!

[@saucegodreacts]

i lost 200 on friday i cried

[@BearBullTraders]

I remember the days 200 was disastrous

[@mrtrader4628]

Why do we do that because I have done them all, 1st with penny stocks

[@BearBullTraders]

Emotional biases, no plan, overconfidence, lack of experience, etc. you name it.

[@tylerr6710]

Over the course of 1 month I traded a prop firm futures account up 5k and lost it all in one hour overleveraging by 5x my normal position size 😭

[@BearBullTraders]

Sorry to hear that, we've all been there

[@mixxndj]

I’m making that mistake right now with BOIL.

[@BearBullTraders]

Ouch! This reminded me Brian Hunter!

[@tonyvic3640]

How can I get more profitable investment in the market? Is this pump shorts getting wrecked and liquidated, or any indication of whale, corporate treasury buys?

[@BearBullTraders]

Pump and dumps and liquidations can be indicators of market manipulation and should be approached with caution.

[@cy_young_9104]

Front running the FED pivot.

[@courtnaypower4808]

2000 000 is so much money , next time you have 2000 000$ you may want to put it in a Vanguard account or something like that

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing!

[@drjqool]

I think $YELP was when Andrew went from great to Legendary. Right after that, your skills went exponential. LMAO

[@BearBullTraders]

😂

[@carlosm328]

Oh man!! $YELP I remember that! That was Peter's fault it was his first time he was on the mic I believe joining as a moderator... kidding!!! We love Peter!

[@BearBullTraders]

Now that you mention... Peter... lol!

[@vinothm5764]

You missed that legendary $CAR trade

[@BearBullTraders]

For sure!

[@BearBullTraders]

i recovered that one though.

[@kingsolo5928]

Not watching news blew my account

[@BearBullTraders]

Read the news and trade price action.

[@23Warheart]

What if I told you the gouvernement give 50% on your lost fund ?

[@BearBullTraders]

how?

[@23Warheart]

@@BearBullTraders In Canada gouvernement take 50% of your gain and give 50% of your lost

[@sportingsharksfcnfts5211]

Wow. You guys are young bloods

[@BearBullTraders]

haha thanks

[@lisaconway1212]

Oh P.S. My biggest loss in self directed investing is $14,612.30 (-99.08%) lol. My lesson is to not buy and continue buying into something you have no idea about just because someone with no experience said it's gonna be amazing some day! Hahaha!!! 💞💞💞

[@thavonephanthavongsa4962]

what i learn is if i ever had 2million to lose i would throw it in a stock with high dividends and retire and sit on my butt forever lol

[@BearBullTraders]

That would be nice!

[@23Warheart]

It’s easy to lost against you can win 99.99% of time but just one lost and your dead the market just

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for sharing.

[@davidprice9265]

So weird how we all think similar, swing trader to investor I bet you lost a couple of trades before that , happens when your adamant about bring right 🙈🤦

[@BearBullTraders]

It's not uncommon for traders, regardless of their style, to experience losses at some point. Losing trades can be a valuable learning opportunity and help traders refine their strategies and approach. The key is to stay focused on the long-term goals and not get discouraged by temporary setbacks. What's your biggest loss in day trading and what did you learn from it?

[@davidprice9265]

@@BearBullTraders I lost money spread betting 10k hedging the market

[@jimmy4437]

Greed destroy you

[@BearBullTraders]

100% correct

[@sunilhumane]

I am from india i also loose my $3000 😭😭😭😭 in crypto help me....

[@chocolatelabtrading]

Sorry to hear that, what is your approach? I have tons of free content on my channel on footprint charts (order flow), market auction theory, and time price opportunity charts.

[@BearBullTraders]

Stay away from crypto

[@PonziZombieKiller]

🏴‍☠️BLACK☠️FRIDAY☠️ 💩🔥🐙🚬🐻

[@BearBullTraders]

Yeah... one year later I received a $517,000 cheque from the canadian government as a tax loss rebate!

[@PonziZombieKiller]

@@BearBullTraders the best way to laundromat :)

[@alexlifeson8946]

The House always wins. Fools.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thank you! Make sure to subscribe to our channel so you get notified of our new videos!

[@Granked]

but if u put 10 million and only lost 20% thats not that bad, if u put 2million and lost 2 million 🤣then yea

[@BearBullTraders]

well, that's not the right way to approach it. If your net worth is 100m, you put 10m, and lost 2m, that's not that bad, if your net worth is 10m, and you lost 2m, then that still hurts!

[@ayazhashmi5948]

Hi friend Please if yoy can help please help me in recover my money. I loose 76000 canadian dollar. In crypto

[@BearBullTraders]

I would recommend reaching out to a professional

[@AN-xs7dw]

Gambling with money from dumb chat subs...

[@BearBullTraders]

I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way. However, day trading should not be compared to gambling. It requires knowledge, research, and strategy to be successful. It's important to approach trading with a professional mindset and make informed decisions based on market analysis and risk management.

[@Bradbajc]

clowns.

[@BearBullTraders]

Thanks for the feedback, we will work on it

[@Imoutoftheoffice01]

Funny

[@ayazhashmi5948]

I loose my 76000 canadian dollar. RCMP said hack in china. Any way to findoutŕ Talk with me if you can

[@BearBullTraders]

I would recommend reaching out to a professional, sorry to hear about that

[@thesurvivor8482]

CRIS, 13k I’ve shot it I was up decent then it reversed and I couldn’t believe it won’t stop going up, I’ve added more and more

[@BearBullTraders]

Big losses are part of this game, we have to learn from them!

[@slowmotionjoe6263]

I’ve become used to my account fluctuating by a few thousand a day I’m comfortable with that…I wanna see it fluctuate by tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands per day and be comfortable with that.

[@BearBullTraders]

You're on the right track!