My Honest Opinion of Zhu Xi's Legacy in AOE4

[@mortalitykitten6786]

Hey beasty, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the worst landmarks and your suggestions on how to fix them

[@mortalitykitten6786]

@MrBiff123 while I don't disagree, dheli imperial has some awful ones as well. Plus house of learning.

[@thomsom1]

Are grenadiers relevant? being able to make them without a dynasty sounds really good but i don't think i have seen them being used at all.

[@stay_frosty324]

id say on china they’re not but for xu shi they are worth if you have the eco for it because having 5 grenadiers in an army can help a lot

[@nathanbarr7114]

They’re good vs mass melee no mango. Think hre or Japanese

[@stay_frosty324]

@@nathanbarr7114 yeah especially mass melee but still good at wiping any frontline

[@JuL3r]

Grenadiers are amazing as long as your opponent isn't on mass high ranged units. I'd never build them vs long bows f.e. But if you have a good front line and maybe even the Ming dynasty for the extra 15% dmg they shred armies in seconds.

[@patrickhenry1249]

Grenadiers are nice but aoe 11 range mass bombards is just too much fun. Same effect practically, 5 or 6 will just melt anything that dares approach you without mass springalds. And since they can aoe you can fight springald spam and sometimes take 2 or more out with one volley(on one springald) so they trade ironically pretty well on their own. Obviously a handful of springalds of your own just makes this insanely hard to beat(with excellent micro). Mass crossbows and stagger formation and hold on top of them and you can just break anyone’s defences or one shot entire groups of Knights, man at arms, whatever.

[@malcolm-the-third]

Your enthusiasm and knowledge is inspiring. Love your content! ❤

[@vineveer4358]

This entire time I thought if you mined out the resources around the meditation gardens, the resource income would go away. Like, in the early game it's a small income bonus, or in the late game you can get infinite stone or whatever. That's crazy that you can actually just place it and bam, infinite monies, no questions asked.

[@davidroldanmartinez8427]

Can wait to see the video of your opinion on english🎉

[@JuL3r]

The only games I got Yuan dynasty were the ones I aged up with the Shaolin Temple, but yet still wanted the upgrades for my IOs and therefore built the other castle age landmark aswell. Otherwise its just not worth it to spend that many ressources just to get a 10% discount on units. Especially when you consider that you get many units for free anyway, due to your Jiangnan Tower.

[@josephsun3755]

One "hidden" bonus of Yuan Dynasty is that you can make 3 pagodas. Relics in pagodas gives additonal food stone wood in castle, and the overall relic resource is about doubled after the imp relic tech. If you have 3 relics, just make the pagodas for more long-time resources+make more bald man

[@terence7009]

ZXL versus delhi is absolutely a sad time. only reason I even beat a ZXL player is because I'm pretty sure he forgot the whole unit making thing. you need those blacksmith upgrades stat but they take too long, and the zhugenu just melt your ghazi raiders and archers once they mass. not needing dynasty to get zhugenu is wild.

[@ecpgieicg]

tbh, if your opponent is at a level of forgetting to make unit, your game has nothing to do with matchup nor civ features.

[@terence7009]

@@ecpgieicg plat 1 here. I exaggerate a bit, but he was largely playing simcity.

[@ecpgieicg]

@@terence7009 is it really an exaggeration if you are plat 1 -- that you opponent doesnt miss 50%+ of the production a top level player makes? the reality is plat 1 player doesnt have the skill to play "sim city". it's irrelevant to talk about sim city being op for like 98% of the ladder

[@TockTVp]

​@@ecpgieicgwhen he says his opponent plays SimCity he just means that he's not building military units. In that regard I gotta say low elo players are definitely close to SimCity players. He never claimed playing SimCity is OP so I'm not too sure with the second part of your comment aswell.

[@ecpgieicg]

@@TockTVp "ZXL versus delhi is absolutely a sad time. only reason I even beat a ZXL player"

[@FernandoFrichen]

Sometimes happens to have a stone in the range of meditation garden... And the second tc will come for free

[@jacobmeilleur238]

I think you're wrong about mediation garden, it's good but not op. Not only can it be denied by sending units near it which reduces it's income significantly and zxl cant do much against it because their start is slow (2 landmarks + 1 tc = no military), it also heavily relies on the map and sometimes you get stuck with sub 100 resources. Also other civs have access to similar stuff i.e. ayyubids can get a free 3 villagers instantly which is way better because you can decide which ressource you want and it's much more consistent. As you said what is op is the farm transition so either reducing the song dynasty or making it so that farms are not discounted by the song dynasty would be enough

[@andrewthecrossman]

Ayyubbids no longer has that feature because it was broken and was nerfed

[@jacobmeilleur238]

@@andrewthecrossman eco wing still has it, not trade wing. Free 3 vils in feudal, 8 in castle, i don't remember imperial but u usually wouldn't get it this late anyway

[@DmyBy]

Thanks, enjoyed

[@dominikstasiak6233]

Maybe Meditation Garden should still get massive income but if you cut trees, gather berries and mine stone/gold reduce the income. For example 2000/4000 gold generate only half of gold etc.

[@traviscumbest3946]

Doesn't address the problem with +4 Villigers in feudal. The sushi player will put the gardens in the middle and use their resources at the home base. Which is often done already

[@simonkapadia7582]

Honestly it feels like they wanted to distinguish song dynasty from fertile crescent, and they shouldn't have. I can't see a world where it makes sense for all non-military buildings to be 40% cheaper, it's a ludicrously large bonus. And in a faction with 20% wood drop off as a thing they can do. I mean, 40% discount in and of itself means your wood spent on buildings goes 67% further. And then the tower discounts all your military buildings and gives you free villagers too. Basically everything is dirt cheap for xi, and they get a ton more free income as well, and their song dynasty costs 15% less than China's as well. Zhugenu without dynasty requirement may just be the dumbest thing they did in the expansion, simply as it's inexorably going to be a nightmare for lower league players, and doesn't really add much to the game. This is about the opposite of the approach you'd want. You'd prefer things that change the game in interesting ways at higher levels and don't generate huge asymmetries at lower levels of play.

[@yz8520]

Hey Beasty would love to hear your opinion on the current map pool and how to improve it

[@user_insert_name_here]

Can we have more OOtD gameplay? Really loved your OOtD games1

[@RyanMoreau]

Its his legacy - don't nerf!

[@TBerq]

I don't think meditation gardens need a huge nerf. Maybe change it to 25 resources per mine instead of 30 or reduce its range but if you go beyond that, it would feel more like a landmark that you have to build to reach song dynasty rather than an actual useful landmark. Song dynasty feels really good to play in but other civs can attack Zhu Xi by the time you can get the farm transition going. If it will receive nerfs I think they should buff the castle or imperial age because it definitely feels weaker compared to other civs contrary to what Beasty said. I also disagree that Zhu Xi should be in line with China. They should be similar but have key differences that allow for different playstyles just like how you can spearmen rush or horsemen rush with OOTD when HRE likes to fast castle. I'm not a conqueror and I don't think majority of the players watching this video are. In fact, I'm a gold-plat player so take what I said with a grain of salt but I feel like most people think Zhu Xi is OP because they have meditation gardens and song dynasty, whereas it is suggested to not fight Jeanne D'arc in the feudal age to not feed the hero XP. Especially in lower leagues, it feels very oppressive that a horse can just run into you, press Q and just kill your units or tank 30 crossbows. Zhu Xi on the other hand has to know how to defend if they go eco or actually have a good build order that they studied to have a successful push.

[@TockTVp]

Yeah sure they should buff ZXL Castle or Imp 😂 Clueless.

[@TBerq]

@@TockTVp At least you need to have some sort of understanding of the game with this civ instead of just spamming one unit for the entire game like French and HRE. For example fighting against Ottoman feels very rough because you can’t destroy the great bombards or kill knights as easily with crossbows. Hope you enjoy sweating in conqueror :)

[@djizomdjinn]

"Zhu Xi gets the equivalent of 4 extra workers at the start of feudal, no other civ has anything like that," * cough * gambling wing * cough*. It's almost like you can't get that anymore for a reason...

[@shoe7525]

Military schools are worth 2-3 villagers, and you can get two at the start of feudal...

[@moridimafea]

@@shoe7525not for free. I spending 250 resource to get them.

[@TBerq]

Ayyubids military wing also gives a free desert raider every 2 mins, Japanese get 4 free relics + 4 priests, although in castle age. I don’t understand why people complain about Zhu Xi and then say things like “You can beat JD by not fighting them in feudal”. If you have to play around your opponent, why does it not apply to Zhu Xi as well? I agree it needs a slight nerf but most of the time it’s map dependent and it’s not an insane difference especially in lower leagues.

[@Drachenfurie]

Zhu Xi early and midgame is good, but lategame requires a ton of imvestment to be competitive. People my say Zhu Xi is OP, but its not. They have no Handcannoneers and to have competitive Age IV you need unique tech costing another 1000 ressources. Other than that your Age 4 landmark does nothing. If you decide to go for the other landmark first, then your lategame is trash. Grenadiers alone are not good enough. Other civs have landmarks that provide actual value instead of simply making your lategame competitive with other civs. So: If you cant beat Sushi in early to midgame, force them into Age IV and beat them there. Sushi relies on early and midgame bonuses. Your goal should be to drag out the game, stay even and then your age IV will be better on almost every civ. Regarding Mediation gards: Its heavily dependent on the map. Therefore, its not the landmark, its the map generation that should be adressed. Its income is not too high on "normal" spawns, people are just not playing around it. All you need to do is use your early units and park them next to it. Just park your scout and you are already reducing it by 10%. Another fact: Zhu Xi Legacy Palace Guards are trash. They do not have access to the +30 HP upgrade. Ontop of that, you have to to upgrade them in Age 3 (since they are unlocked in Age 2). I would consider this a downside, since there is really no good reason to build Palace Guards in Age 2.

[@omniarms6081]

Their imperial seems slow but all the mid game bonuses actually make the imperial very smooth, it doesn't matter really if they need thousands resource for great imperial when they have easy time to get there.

[@Sprutky]

Which units are the one to go for with Zhu?

[@gospel_rr3361]

Zhuge Nu.

[@Sprutky]

@@gospel_rr3361 just them or in a combo?

[@eljouser]

I can beat zu xi in its current state with super aggressive civs like Dehli or english. There's a smaaal window in feudal to beat them, which is by around 6 minutes, as the first unit they make is always zu ghe nu, and these are not very strong in low numbers unlike, for example, a Ghazi raider

[@rel_9602]

I lost every single game against them. In the late game they just mass knights and like 20 bombards with area of effect damage. This is just crazy

[@Sprutky]

First you made me play OotD which was my first nation to play in my first game play and after my first ever rank games I landed in Gold. Don't know how good that is but right now I plan to play Zhu to rank up some more because I really started to like them after watching your videos playing them

[@Chad2gaulle]

IMO dont play civs that will be changed soon. Just learn how to play the game in general

[@highping100]

That's more of you-improving than civ-too-strong, keep on going :)

[@Sprutky]

@Chad2gaulle I just wanna play Zhu now so that I can learn the civ and while I learn and make mistakes the power of the civ is there to kinda balance that out. I also try to learn Mali right now but I just get destroyed because I make to many mistakes with the micro. The amount of cows devoured by my villagers is quit embarrassing😅 Oh btw is it a good strat with OotD to go for the cheap smith wonder and then research that units can build siege units and then try to "rush" the enemy with early siege? It was the tactic that brought me in Gold

[@polakmoose]

I smacked up Juicy's legacy with HRE yesterday. It was funny. I guess the guy was just bad maybe?

[@caspuchiha]

It's the best civ but that doesn't mean it can't lose.

[@zhd7281]

The legacy is supposed to be HRE alike. I mean, although HRE has prelate, we don't think HRE is a very booming civ. Same with the legacy, the economy bonus of officials does not means it's supposed to be a booming civ. In fact 3tc Song is not that good comparing with Abbasid, it should not be a legitimate build but thanks to the cheaper farm, it is viable. I would agree that Song dynasty should be halved and probably the meditation garden should stop resource production once enemy is nearby, but the legacy should not be designed to keep in the way of defending and booming as Chinese does.

[@solomongreatness6391]

$15 for the download. Of course, it makes Zhu Xi Civ strong. the more money you pay the stronger you are.

[@mr.mhamad414]

Sushi =the best

[@denizaydn2573]

Hello I love you

[@kicmanerevtog9119]

stalker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@augustodias1299]

the best civ

[@ScarfinUSA]

The quick rush Zhuge Nu is annoying. What is the counter to that?

[@yyz619]

long bow

[@LuisCastro-fg2wb]

As a bizantine player i get to enjoy both longbows & limitenai, or if i'm feeling spicy, javelin thrower + horsemen. EDIT : lol Beasty said what I wrote as I posted the reply...

[@ScarfinUSA]

@@LuisCastro-fg2wb I have been playing as Japan and their anchors suck and the horsemen are expensive. They seems to just die against mass Zhuge Nu, granted I'm prob doing something wrong to not have enough supply to counter it.

[@Qew1601]

horseman , they need about 20 volleys to kill a horseman if the enemy show up at your base with 20 zhuge nu then that not the game problem .

[@tusharranjan1723]

Thumbnail should have been 'how good are they?'

[@ProGeneralTony]

I love your content Beasty, but please speak up or work on your audio setup.

[@Lifen1]

Im tired of these "honest" opinions videos all the time, i whant to see a dishonest opinion video next time..

[@usuhbi]

Zushi's units needs to be nerfed hard. Chinese civs should be about good eco but their units must be inferior to other civs. Chinese civs should be about their massive numbers. Thats the only way to balance it out and make it unique. They should have to have a bigger mass than the enemy civs and balances it that way from being OP in imperial as well. Chinese units should be trash

[@mortalitykitten6786]

Why though? Default has to invest more to get its unique units, and has to invest more up front to get their economic pay offs. Why should their units be any weaker? Default china is plenty unique, despite having some powerful units.

[@Drachenfurie]

You have not understood that Zhu Xi is fundamentally different from regular China. Regular China has strong lategame, while Zhu Xi has strong early to midgame. They are very different civs. Zhu Xi needs to be aggressive to get ahead.

[@usuhbi]

@@Drachenfurie well, right now, zushi has a strong feudal, castle, and imp. Idk what ur point is

[@mnmmnmm]

@@usuhbi zhuxi imperial is weaker than normal china imperial