Bebop Scale? Not A Thing

Peter and Adam are here to make some serious claims about the Bebop Scale. What do you think about this scale?
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• The 15 Notes You NEED ...

[@petefeltman]

Notice Adam didnt include bigfoot in his list of things that dont exist

[@МихаилАшихмин]

I'm a russian saxophonist, traditional way of teatching has broken me in a way, so I am finding your vids as the really inspiring spring. I get out of depression by you, so I'm buying your course for the first money to make from my career)

[@michaeldennisguitarlessons]

Many years ago I attended a Guitar Workshop at Duquesne University. Jimmy Bruno was one of the teachers. He drew a circle diagram showing 7 Notes of the C Major Scale "inside the circle" and 5 Chromatic Notes "outside the circle". To my mind, I think what Jimmy was suggesting was to mostly create melodies and phrases using the Major Scale and then use your ear and musical intuition to add in any of the 5 Chromatic Notes whenever they sound good. I think you can create a lot of interesting improvising vocabulary on your own using this Simple Concept. Thank you for your consideration.

[@barryo5158]

Actually, Barry later said you can use “any note” , again “any note”, not necessarily the one above. And that goes for his half step rules too.

[@davidraksin9694]

@7:06 I'm a bit embarrassed. I've been trying to understand this language for years now and I just noodled around chord tones with adding swing and chromaticism but hearing this and solidifying this understanding makes me sound more "bebop." Now I'm looking forward to practicing this in all the keys. Practicing licks in all keys wasn't a problem but moreso trying to get that swing bebop sound that flows seamlessly was. Thanks a bunch for this, I'm looking forward for this year to get this under my fingers.

[@ThisIsJBird]

Yup, thought I was the only one. I never had use for the theoretic “bebop” scale. Couldn’t stand it. Thnx Barry Harris RIP 🙏🏽

[@micahslobcrud5958]

I like that Peter says "THE KZbin." And "Onion-esque."

[@wyattreed4024]

Great video guys. Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the blues scale, because while it's probably more talked about by jazz players than the bebop scale it kind of falls in the same bucket of trying to describe with a scale an approach to playing that doesn't really fit a scalar framework. It's not something I've thought much about since I was first learning improvisation and am often hesitant to teach it, wonder if you have similar thoughts or maybe an alternative practice tool like for the bebop scale? Much love and GALA :)

[@edzielinski]

I would love to see a deeper dive on this concept, if it has not been covered in a previous video. Is the main idea basically adding some bebop flavor to whatever scale or chord you are working in? Is that different than applying bebop enclosures? Great stuff. Thanks!

[@thomaswilliams2723]

Just reverse your melodic direction sometimes in short-scale fragments and that's where enclosures come from. It's an insanely broad subject but I have some good resources on it

[@johnklimeck]

Thank you guys, and thank you Chris Parks, BH Chromatic scale (and half step rules), are really the most helpful in getting bebop under one’s fingers immediately… and not hoping that by the endless pursuit of modes and by some alchemy / assembly of those modes, will you get you that bebop sound… they will in 99 % of the time, not…

[@DojoOfCool]

David Baker is going to haunt you in your sleep. From the history I've read David Baker who was basically same age as Barry Harris is the one who came up with label Bebop scales. David Baker came up with his pedagogy for teaching Jazz before Barry Harris started teaching his. Seems like they both taught similar things but they used different labels for things.

[@cademosley4886]

Ha! This was exactly my reaction. I originally learned all of this from David Baker's books. (And what sticks out in my memory wasn't "scales", but "chord tones on down beats", and all the different ways to do that.) Then in the last few years on these Internet videos it's become standard to lump this into the Barry Harris approach, and I always thought but what about Baker!? In my mental picture, Barry Harris's system revolves around alternating maj6 resolutions and diminished tensions up a scale of chords. It's like he took the major bebop scale and made a system of harmony, tension, and release out of it. Whereas David Baker was more directly giving rules and norms of bebop language where chord tones are on downbeats, and approach tones, chromaticism, arpeggios, and patterns are used to put lines together. I've been thinking about it a lot recently in terms of being skeptical of "systems" and reverting back to methods to get a certain sound, as a kind of antidote to the trend of online lessons, e.g., going back to David Baker's lessons over Barry Harris's. In that sense, this video is coming at an interesting time for me with a similar but different perspective on it.

[@cademosley4886]

Don't get me wrong I love David Baker & Barry Harris both. But my musical DNA was originally given to me by David Baker. So it's nice to see his place in the history of bebop education acknowledged.

[@leonard-gq5eh]

Of all things Peter Martin could have said about Barry Harris' teachings, "very onionesque" was not on the bingo card for me.

[@abath07]

Barry Harris, a renowned jazz pianist and educator, developed the “half-step rules” to enhance bebop improvisation. These rules involve adding chromatic passing tones to scales, ensuring that chord tones align with strong beats, thereby creating smoother and more cohesive melodic lines.  By stating that these half-step rules help the scale “come out” from a fundamental view, Harris emphasizes that incorporating these chromatic passing tones allows musicians to internalize and express the foundational elements of bebop harmony and melody more effectively. This approach not only aids in mastering the essential aspects of bebop but also facilitates the development of more fluid and natural improvisational skills.

[@PTam09]

Nice job guys. I too would love a deeper dive into exercises from the Barry Harris approach. Also. I love the intro/exit tune to the podcast. Where can I hear the whole thing. Sheetmusic?

[@YoullHearIt]

"Emotion in Motion" by Peter Martin. Sheet music: www.openstudiojazz.com/emotion-in-motion Track: open.spotify.com/track/1t6KOeUucV53HTjhZIgGA4?si=c780e749f6b44233

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Harris and Baker present their concepts very differently. Had to unlearn stuff here as well. Thankful to have discovered Harris, albeit later in my musical development. Cheers, Daniel

[@usmc1875]

wonderful guys! thanks Adam for showing the licks of the scale where you resolved up a chord! those really come in handy man! God bless!

[@thomascordery7951]

What fun seeing the great Peter Martin coming to terms with this bebop non-scale concept; makes him seem merely human like the rest of us!

[@luoshengying]

Music theory with two person is great.

[@CrowClouds]

Need a Open Studio sweatshirt that says REAL TALK FROM 2 PLAYAZ

[@honeycombsful]

Would love to hear y’all’s thoughts on Bert Ligon’s book “connecting chords with linear harmony” to me it’s the most accurate system I’ve seen for what’s actually happening in bebop vocabulary. The title says it all 😊

[@retrogamerdave362]

of course you can write out the bebop scales and say they exist. But studying them is not useful at all. Knowing how to top and use approach notes and enclosures is useful and if you look at the bebop scale and see how you add chromatic passing notes to make it fit in time, that's a very slightly useful thing

[@michaelsalsich6737]

This is a nice little nugget of knowledge. Thanks!

[@DenisChangMusic]

I feel there’s a revolution going on thanks to youtube, i talk about similar things on my channel! Changing the way bebop is being taught!

[@abath07]

The teachers in this video don’t seem to fully grasp Barry Harris' 'half-step rules' for the 7th scale. The so-called 'bebop scale,' which they quickly dismiss as nonexistent, is actually the very first example Barry uses to demonstrate his complete list of 'half-step rules.' The initial 'half-step rule' Barry demonstrates is what many refer to as the 'bebop scale,' though Barry himself doesn’t use that term-he simply calls it 'half-step rules.' You can see this explained by Barry himself here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e37Ed6d8Yslqm5o. It’s important not to confuse Barry’s 'half-step rules' with his 'chromatic scale' concept, which is a completely different lesson. These teachers in the video appear unaware of how Barry actually taught his 'half-step rules and instead pivot to his "chromatic scale."

[@mynamesjono]

Blowin my mind boys

[@JamesOKlippel]

Sharp 11th in the intro lol

[@curiouscurious6558]

great video Peter and Adam!

[@anthonysilva5312]

You guys are the best! (But what if you're playing in 3/4 or 5/4 time?)

[@sagandalya108]

I wll never take anything through the twelve keys (◡︵◡)

[@sonicmuse]

Or… you can just experiment and use your ears. 😅 Sure, Barry and David (I studied with David) each have a system that can lead the total neophyte (often the classical player who has never listened to jazz and/or doesn’t know where to begin with it) into the general territory of bebop, but it’s up to each student to personalize/expand the elements of the system. The thing is, if you already intuitively grasp bop, you’re already subconsciously employing these elements and already have your own way of communicating them. If that’s the case, there’s no need- despite what the super-talented-but- super-opinionated BH might claim- to “unlearn” anything and to scrap what’s already intuitively grasped so you can learn “the right” system or method. (Barry was famous for HATING Bill Evans, and he also verbally swatted down the great Fred Hersch- with whom I also studied- when Fred humbly and respectfully offered an idea that varied from Barry’s own.) Regarding systems in general, I tend to defer to the old saying, “Evil is the rock upon which every system eventually shipwrecks,” lol.

[@jbginns28]

Great job

[@gerardosoto5211]

🤯🤯🤯

[@BarMorBBOOM]

🎸🎸🎸

[@cat3rpill3r]

Based on my reading of David Baker and Jerry Bergonzi, this video from TILF sounds a lot like the bebop scale: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2K3lISfjNJrbpo. It's all the same stuff, a pedagogical tool for helping people learn how to construct lines with a good sense of rhythm.

[@flober1970]

Hindustani music also have these kinds of scale movements in some descending scales.

[@brucebyrnes125]

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@brw4807]

Great

[@SuperMANgino]

A comment

[@ogdenphotographics]

as per Barry Harris.. nope