Beechcroft Model Railway - #67. Is this an issue or am I over thinking??

[@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204]

great update onthe layout thanks for share thanks lee

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks Lee

[@Harp-House-Halt]

Great layout, how about this, on the branch line tunnel exit, "stage left", replace the left hand point with a 3 way point so that as a train exits the branch line tunnel it can also come right, through a diamond crossing and join back up with the main line just before the platform starts ? As others have mentioned, points in tunnels is risky fate dictates that is where a derailment will occur. Ouch, just spotted I'm not the first to come up with this one, great minds ah...

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thank you. That seems a popular idea. I’m going to see if I can make it fit. 👍

[@WILLMERE.]

As GNR has said, and avoid putting points in tunnels, if a train is going to derail it will be there. While you are at it, you can make me a few dozen trees😂. Keep up the good work, Bill.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Ha, of course!

[@MarkInLA]

1:41 Not sure if this is what you need: I'm seeing right below the middle of the last upper cream & red coach, next to the retaining wall a LH switch in that track thru a diamond crossing right in front of the lower brown coach in that short straight track, over to a LH switch our side of the switch near your ruler's corner allowing trains coming out of the same portal to go to the branch line.. I'm in the states, US HO (still getting over the horrifying election here of last night, plus turning 77 tonight, midnight, the 7th ! Ugh !!)..and just 'letting off some steam'..If this solves your problem it will add some nice complexity to the terminal throat.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thank you and a belated happy birthday 👍

[@unclenolly3207]

In modern times, there would probably be some kind of bus replacement service, but given the era of your layout, I’m not sure what to suggest. 🤣🤣🤣

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@WILLMERE.]

Curved points (Peco Streamline) are the way to go! They provide a very smooth transition between tracks. Bill.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks Bill. After seeing how well yours run I’m over my ‘phobia’ now! 👍

[@Andrewstolarski]

I like where your at at the moment 😊😊😊

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks 😊

[@nickrook4216]

I'm binge watching on catchup 😊

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Haha 😂

[@johnstephens649]

Think you need a junction back from the branch to the main to give you full flexibility of operation. you have plenty of space so anything you do will not make the layout look a cluttered forest of track! I would put a r/h point after the temporary tunnel mouths and points into the depot etc to take a line back to the main. Might mean you have to move the tunnel mouth slightly but will keep the integrity of the scenic plans you have for that area. Agree best to avoid points in tunnels…! You have the room for a long sweeping junction and crossovers from both tracks of the main. Make sure you have this as currently I don’t think you have a way of getting from the inner loop to the branch and helix which this would give you. Large rad curved points work fine and as you have double slips on the upper main loops, they aren’t any worse for running!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thanks very much 👍

[@andrewbrown4985]

You could try replacing the left hand point on the branch line before the station with a three way point and put in a cross over where the straight piece of track is and a right hand turn out just before the platform on the main line.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. That’s one I’d not thought of 👍

[@greatnorthernrailwaytother4711]

PS your tree idea looks good. 😊

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you! 😊

[@ManchesterOxfordGate]

Consider rearranging the points as the branch line comes out of the tunnel into the station. Swap the left hand point on the branch line for a 3 way to direct traffic onto the mainline. You’ll need to install a crossover plus another right hand point just in front of the station platform. Almost a reverse of how the mainline gets onto the branchline, if that makes sense? That way, you don’t need to do anything with curved points etc as it’s all managed before the station.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thank you very much 👍

[@adriank8698]

Another option is the adjust the track plan in the station approach. If the angles permit, replace the LH point just after the branch line tunnel portal with a 3-way point. Install a diamond crossing on the existing main to branch line crossover and install a trailing RH point on the main line. This would preserve the two existing options for the branch (station branch platforms or incline to the upper level) and add the opportunity for trains to transfer from the branch to the main line and then use the main line platform. Perhaps it is time to print off some of the Peco point templates and start investigating what is feasible!

[@anthonylulham3473]

I came to say this

[@ManchesterOxfordGate]

I’ve just typed this very thing. You beat me to it 😂

[@alanrobinson5977]

Totally agree that a 3 way point with a shunt engine parked up would only need little track changes, and it is not an issue to access. Then the train at the far end can be uncoupled and sent to loco yard.cheers.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks 👍

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

Looking at time stamp 3.11 could you put a RH point in the branch line about 10 inches to the left of the tunnel mouth and then join it to the main line much further around the curve.? Also move the tunnel mouth back behind the new point so you point access? All the best.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant, thank you 👍

[@garylong7599]

I have a curved point on my layout which I was had to,use due to space limitations with no issues after 15 years of running. I would suggest trying installing and see how you get on you can always take it out again if you don’t like it and try something else. With regards to seafoam trees I reinforce mine with thin brass rod which is fixed in place using superglue and spray accelerator which makes them more robust by leaving one thicker piece of rod sticking out the bottom makes the tree easier to plant on the layout. You may want to move away from the dark brown on the trunk and try a grey/brown colour as trees are normally dark brown.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Great advice, thanks very much 👍

[@peterwoodley7473]

Hi if you look at the NYMR they reverse the train into the network rail track then move forward

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@stephendavies6949]

Hello again. Track planning is a wonderfully frustrating but enjoyable part of the hobby! First if all, you have to do whatever gives you most satisfaction. Personally, there's only two suggestions I'd make: don't put points in tunnels, and if you take inspiration from the "real life" railway, there's no reason to have multiple points where a brachline connects with the mainline. One crossover is fine. Using "the hand if God" approach to interchanging your branch line stock from time to time is fine. However, the more points you have, the more potential derailment issues you create. Having said that, a second connection is fine too, if that's what will provide enjoyment. Good luck 🙃

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant, thank you 👍

[@ListerDavid]

Working on the idea with the loco taking the coaches in to the branch platforms it could uncouple and run in to the yard for coal and water while a station pilot shunts the coaches to one of the mainliner platforms. Then the mainline engine can be turned round or just come back out and run round to which ever end you want it on.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@kenmackay475]

I think that if you don't install a facing crossover at the other end of the station you may live to regret it. You have done such a wonderful job so far that in a way, it would be a shame not to add that operational flexibility of running a train off the branch back onto the main line. I have crved points on my main line and they work perfectly - no problems. My suggestion would be to install a facing crossover - the exact location being determined in part by matching the curvature of the curved point with that on the main. I dont think it would be too difficult and with your skills and possibly a little bit of relaying to align the curve radii , perfectly achievable. The other factor is what is under the board but I guess you could fairly easily work out a solution. Best to do it now - you won't regret it! Regards, Ken

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thanks Ken 👍

[@going2thedogs]

Hi, I would suggest creating a passing loop for the platform serving the Branchline as this will create more operational interest. As an aside, I have used curved points & have had no issues with them. I would also suggest moving the tunnel portals nearer the station so that at least one of the points is easily accessible in the event of an issue arising. With the other point you would have to plan how you will access this should it be required. Hope that helps.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant, thank you 👍

[@andrewverden7965]

I would have thought that the passengers arrive on the mainline train, change platform and get on the branchline service that meets at the station. So the need to run mainline trains on the branchline is less important more the connectivity for the passengers. The branchline services operate smaller trains... maybe shunt some wagons onto the branchline from the mainline trains. I think your loco depot looks great!!!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s great. Thanks very much 👍

[@m698dr]

Hello, I would put the points in if it helps better running for you. Do not use set track curved points because they are too tight. Regards, Michael

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much 👍

[@Millsbritish4x4]

If you look at the operation of SVR at Bridgenorth, the uncoupling and sending the loco to the other end of the carriages is how they do it, so it would be operationally correct. I have a similar scenario and that's just the way it is! for me it makes for a hands on approach to operations, main line will eventually be automated, branch line not so! ... try not to overthink it!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s great, thank you 👍

[@georgethomas7814]

I actually like the walled cutting idea there are plenty of massive cuttings to model it on. Dean Park has two or three examples of exposed points in cuttings with the remaining area fully covered with scenery. (2) There is nothing wrong with a dead end branch line. I think the issue is with the main line train coming into the branch line platform. Do you have room for carriage sidings within the engine shed area. Take the whole train out towards the engine sheds and then shunt the carriages back and onto a line that follows the main lines. Turn the engine, clean the coaches and send it back via the branch or main to "other places". (3) If you want your trains to go round and round the branch has to be a seperate loop. That new crossover will be a conflict for both main and branch. You questions have no good answer without a full track plan and a description of the conflict. However I think making a carriage siding inbetween the main line and the engine sheds will solve the problem. Shunting on and off would need a full train length either side of connection points. To me it looks like you can make room and given yourself a visible change over line in a yard like area just behind the engine sheds . Again no plan no real help but I think you have space in the area to make the shunt and carriage siding look like part of a lost bigger carriage area. Additionally you have a false 4 track area for some length visible (cutting) or covered 4 track tunnel third line shunt.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s great. Thanks so much for your feedback and ideas. Really appreciated 👍

[@greatnorthernrailwaytother4711]

Hi, what if you move the two tunnel portals with yellow tape on them back towards the station by the length of a turnout and the placed a RH point in which joined onto the mainline through a LH point at the end of the straight near the back of the loco sheds. Cheers Peter from downunder.

[@CharlesPruden]

Any turnout placements can be visualized by printing on paper the new track layout like you had on the goods yard. Just make the paper ones place them and think about them. Might help get to a final design.

[@greatnorthernrailwaytother4711]

@ yes you can get plans from the Peco Website.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 🙏

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Good idea 👍

[@daveharland9126]

It is just a thought, but perhaps instead of trying to reconnect the branch line to the main line after exiting the station, why not remove the crossover at the approach to the station, thereby isolating the branch line from the main line.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@craigstow3324]

Could you put a R/h turnout from the branch line close to the tunnel portal, and use a L/h large curve turnout to join back to the main line around the curve, to the right of the portal?

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. Worth looking at 👍

[@Rancidhamster]

I used 24 sets of curved points in my storage yards and no problems with high speed running, also, don’t sweat on point motors blocked by baseboard supports, either surface mounted in a trackside building works or look at Chadwick model railway surface mounted points with a groove in top of baseboard deck for point ridding, I think they are M1 point motors……..

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant, thank you 👍

[@Rancidhamster]

@ no problem like your channel mate

[@tonypetts6663]

What was the original "story" for the branchline? If you saw it taking trains in both directions on and off the mainline at what is to all effects a junction station then you need the extra points. If it was just to provide a "shuttle" service then the rolling stock wouldn't change very often anyway. Personally I would add in anything that makes the operations more interesting and possibly easier, at least being the ability to run around the branch trains in the station to take them back from there in the direction they just came from. But as I opened with, decide the "story" you want to tell and work from there, it is after all being but for your pleasure.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant. Thank you very much 👍

[@kelvinVAUGHAN]

I think the question you need to ask is "Is the effort worth the reward". I would work work with what you have.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you 👍

[@NewModelRailway1]

What track are you using in that area?

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

All my track is peco code 100 streamline 👍

[@peterplatell3961]

I don’t see any issue with a point in the tunnel. Especially as on the mainline the train is running from the toe of the point through the split. You’d have potentially more of an issue with the point the other way around, but using a LH curved point shouldn’t be an issue. Regarding derailments, a lift off access section is key for the rare time it’ll happen, potentially even a small webcam to track what’s going on under there.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much 👍

[@GamingFnaticYT]

Some of your locos would have pulled coaches in reverse backwards without turning the loco round irl, or maybe have a look at getting some tank engines for that job. I’ve got quite a few and with the limited space I’ve got I’ll be doing alot like that with my locos, as I won’t have enough space like yourself for a full circuit layout. But on a branch line or heritage line, the main running line locos would also pull coaches in reverse even when the loco is facing forward like it is there in your video. Depends on the loco itself, maybe do a bit of research online in regards to the locos you’ve got, but some are freight only, some are passenger but some are mixed traffic aswell. 👍🏻

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Brilliant, thank you 👍

[@GamingFnaticYT]

@ no problem. 😁👍🏻

[@neilharbott8394]

Points are expensive (real world and model), and need to consider location of signal boxes. In the real world railway companies worked under these conditions. They didn't plan to allow every approach access to every station platform, or the reverse. It's interesting to review real world track plans and try to figure out what movements would be allowed. Many branch lines were served by small passenger trains, which never need access to the main lines, except to transfer to the service depot - so a continuous crossover is generally not required. The other common transfer would be freight, which again has no cares over how many times you have to hitch to it or reverse across the crossing! So long as a route is possible, you'll be fine, just don't overdo it creating a morass of switches just to allow movements that really don't make much sense. During the steam era, points were switched using metal rods, the further the distance from the signal box, the heavier the rod is to move. This is why you see clusters of points around the signal box (less strain on the signalmans arms!), or signal boxes at both ends of larger stations. So, you don't always see crossover options at both ends of a station, a train will switch over the available points to allow departure over the desired route, which can mean restricting platform numbers for a given route. In your case Platform#4 may be branch only, while Platform#3 allows options for mainline or branch service, and may give option for a terminating mainline train to reverse direction without fouling the mainline through platforms. Platform#1 and #2 are mainline through platforms and generally only service trains going in one direction, and are not used for terminating services. The final consideration is points have an increased risk of derailment, so railway companies tended to prefer trailing crossovers (your crossover is facing), there are point-lock mechanisms to reduce the risk of point rail misalignment, but that adds expense to the unit. Looking at the mainline approach, you said there is a Bay Platform(#1a?) with a DMU parked in it, but it has no access to the arrival line. Generally, this would be fixed by having a facing point on the arrival line to allow access to Platform#2 and the Bay, and a single slip to allow the Bay to leave on the main departure line, but no access to Platform#1 from the arrival line. But as the saying goes, it's your layout, the important thing is to have fun with what you are doing.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s brilliant. Thanks very much 👍

[@MultiEinsteinium]

It's an awkward one, partly because of the space you have to work with, but also because of how much a decent viewer would feel uncomfortable critiquing someone else's track plan - what with Rule One being supreme. I guess one question by me would be "why does putting a set of points where you suggested mean you couldn't cover it?" Surely you could either add some kind of points control (whether electric or manual) or if it is derailment that worries you make that section of scenery removable? However reading through some of your other comments I have to wonder if Adriank8698 is on to something about making the other end a more complex junction - I just don't know if you quite have the space, but his suggestion seems to be the best one for giving you what you would like?

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s brilliant. Thanks very much for your support 👍