Turning nucs into massive honey producers

[@tonyhill3638]

Great idea. I did this last year, and the double nucs performed as well as my best hives. I made a double-nuc brood box just for this. I made the side walls of the hive from 1/2" plywood, instead of 3/4, and added a 3/16" divider. That way, it fits under regular 10 frame boxes. LOVE using double nucs this way!

[@eueut21]

I thought about this method for a few weeks and I will try this method starting from next week when my new queens will arrive and I will make the nucs. Thank you!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

New queens may be vulnerable doing this.

[@JakeBee27]

What a fount of wisdom. Thanks for sharing. Love the accent! Pittsburgher here. Ours is atrocious.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@davidsoloninka7742]

Disagree Jake, luv the Pittsburgh accent😃

[@vanderwandegardens2368]

Hi Peter! Thanks for the great video on how to turn two nucs into one honey producing hive to get around 150 lbs of honey. I have a situation here in NE PA where my hives never last through the winter. I don't want to delve into that too much up here, but rather I want to maximize honey production from two overwintered PA nucs of Russian bees I'll get in early April. My plan is to leave all the bees in the nucs until I see swarm cells and then turn two nucs into four and then four into eight, but with this last set every colony will go into 10 frame hives. After I have 8 brood boxes, (I'll start them all with drawn comb from the previous year), I'll put one honey super on each, again with drawn comb, and build up as necessary. In this way, I'm hoping to have 8 hives, 8x90lbs=720 of honey by August 1st. I'll harvest everything at that point. (On August 8th or so the farmer sprays Roundup all around me and kills most of my bees and then the wasps move in for the kill and rob out the hives. I only find out what day the farmer is spraying while I'm at work, an hour away. If I do close up the hives they still get into the Roundup whenever the rain re-hydrates it and they bring it back to the hive / honey and then I find lots more dead bees. The clouds of Round up cover everything if the wind is shifting and I'm completely surrounded by farmland.) I figure the two queens will lay about 1k eggs per day or 1full nuc every 15 days. When we get up to four hatched, laying queens 15-25 days after I move the swarm cell (sometime in May) I'll have 4 nucs every 15 days. I realize I'm not accounting for bees lasting about a month so there will be lots of attrition. I actually found you by doing an AI search for this problem and it fed me your video. I can't find anyone that has a bee hive maximization calculator but it would be fun to invent. Anyway, do you see any problems with this plan other than I'm not accounting for attrition and I'm counting on two healthy and strong laying queens giving birth to successively perfect queens?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I think overall your plan would be achievable in terms of building up numbers of nucs but you will rarely get nucs AND honey its one or the other. Your plan also assumes continous honeyflow which maybe the case in your area but not here. You are more likely to besuccessful by getting colonies up to 10 frame deep size before splitting into nucs as if you over split you may face issues with small hive beetles and wax moths. Finally I would look at relocating your hive well before the farmer will normally treat. It does not sound like somewhere I would want my bees.

[@Jason-xu6pi]

I most certainly found this idea interesting. Will be giving this a go as I have surplus nucs this year. Thanks for sharing.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Go for it!

[@time2fly2124]

sounds like the ian steppler method of putting 3 six frame nucs side by side with 2 supers above.

[@badassbees3680]

It's closer to Palmer method

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Its a hybrid . Inspired by Ian's techniques but with what I have learned from the Demaree method manipulations I've done to make it work better. (Also Ian's single brood chamber management)

[@Moderatelydisagreeable]

Thank you. Great timing I was actually looking for information on honey production with single brood box. I will go find that one as well.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Glad it was helpful!

[@davidupton5252]

Thank you for such an interesting video that was passing by then watched a few mins turning into watching your whole video lol now subscribe to your channel your fault you are an interesting person.

[@uswwt]

Only if you know your nectar flow times well. I suck. I only know which months nectar will flow in my area. Good luck keeping those girls in the tiny box. It will be a lot of boxes lifting to check for swarm cells. For my bees, even single charmer management will swarm if left too strong.

[@davidbarnes936]

Great information. I’m eager to see how you prepare and bring the nucs through winter after the honey supers are pulled off. My concern is the timing associated with the need to feed them after supers are off, but keeping them from swarming at that point. Seems like the nuc is full of brood at that point, with the need for food, but nowhere to store it.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

You should be prepared to feed at the time the honey is removed (like with single brood chamber management).

[@G-n3j]

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer You winter them as 5 frames? Would it be possible to run them like this and then transition to singles? If you harvested early to mid August you could theoretically move them to single boxes, give them 2-4 frames each of honey and let them build out for wintering in a single? Of course this would 'sacerfice' most of a box of honey to the singles.

[@badassbees3680]

Great video! just remember guys you need a nectar flow and queens to be laying for no complications!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

quite right.

[@tsensenig8045]

Sounds good. For me the downside would be the very heavy honey deeps.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Without doubt. Of course with planning we could always run an all medium super system. No deeps at all.

[@tomdamour4902]

Thanks again for the very important information.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

You bet!

[@lagrangebees]

This is very similar to the Resource Hives Michael Palmer uses :) Always nice to do slightly different ways to get something doe, allows to choose is the best for your given situation!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Exactly.

[@AmericansBee]

Thanks for the great video!!!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Glad you liked it!

[@yvonnewagner5322]

I was wondering what you do to get ready for winter. Queen excluder has to be pulled to access stores above yes? Do you pull the nucs apart then to fit a cover on each separately to overwinter?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I have done videos on it the year before last but in short they are separated, fed and can be overwintered alone or on top of a large warm hive using a special double screen board.

[@liviotassse]

Hi. I wonder if these nucs are made up during the current year or the previous. Thanks.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Current year, I feal that the overWintered nucs need to burst into big hive having been held back for 9 months or so.

[@davidsoloninka7742]

As the bottom 2 Nuc boxes fill with brood why doesn't the colony get the urge to swarm? Thx

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

All to do with timing. If done way before the honeyflow they would swarm. If done just as it really gets going they don't often swarm, but still good to check as weather can mess that generalization up.

[@Proto_Turk]

If you do that during flow, emerging brood will eat the honey. It will work if you combine them and gather emerging brood frames at least 3 weeks prior to the flow. If you want more honey, you should also restrict queen from laying during flow or take out capped brood frames during flow and give them to other weak colonies. Once this flow is over, the weak ones will be ready for the next flow. That timing is the essence of beekeeping.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Flows are very different works well in long flows as described but for short flows that is good advice!

[@rosspaton5948]

Hi, how does x2 different queen pheromones impact the worker bees 🤔 Thanks for the great vlogs 👍🏻

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

They behave normally.

[@beewagyu]

Peter Could you have a Queen in the deep above the other two Nucs and then put another Queen excluder in and then have three queens contributing to the honey production above? Essentially a triple factor instead of just two? Three and then stack for honey Production

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I see no reason why not.

[@scotthenderson4376]

How do you get the bees to not fight as there are 2 Queens? Also how do you get them to not fill the nucs with honey and binding the hives? I have a nuc that exploded wall to wall brood when put in 10 frame the swarmed instead of pulling out the super and then since there was less bees they honey bound the bottom box.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Timing. No fighting due to honeyflow and queens are kept separated. Generally, with a strong queen, they do not fill the bottom brood combs with honey but this may vary and require watching.

[@00larkspur]

I was thinking about doing something like this but Does this make inpspections very dificult. Or do you just let them be until the flow is over?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

The latter.

[@pn7064]

I loved this video!😀

[@jenniferhill2836]

May I ask where you’re located?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Hampden Maine USA

[@markj3851]

Hi Peter. I'm trying the nucs under a combined honey super and have a question. One nuc is much smaller than the other. Will they share resources and even out?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

The difference between sides can be noticed if one queen is significantly lacking.

[@ioannisnik3118]

Why you use Drone combs and not only foundation combs. I can't understand. I know the drone combs is only if we want to produce drones for mite control and not workers bees or store honey. Please explain to me because I am confused.

[@ME_MeAndMyBees]

You should come back to Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 ! It hasnt rained here for nearly a Month. Its been Sunny and Warm too. OK 18C (64F) the Nectar is just coming in by the Bucket load. Trees, Shrubs, Grazing Fields have been in Full Bloom for weeks and weeks now. Amazing ! Oh and another 2nd incoming Swarm from another Beek elsewhere. They must be losing Bees and their Honey. Oh Dear ? Oh well, their loss. They decided my Garden was the chosen place to relocate to. A [Dead Out] Hive with all its useable Comb awaited them. The other took to a Double Deep Nuc Stack. [Bait Hive with L.G. Oil.] Fancy trying your 'Nuc Neighbour' same Honey Deep Super Factory Method for sure. Like a trial 'Trial' ! 😉 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 Happy Beekeeping 2023 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Having lived in The Isle of Man and Newcastle for 30 years I will never complain about the weather over here!

[@heidiedelman6840]

Interesting. There is no problem with workers from one Nuc and queen damaging the other queen?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Not during a honeyflow

[@rtxhoneybees]

good info Peter. Based on watching your videos from last year I am trying something similar and it is working splendidly. I caught a lot of swarms this year - 18. I take the smaller ones and put them in a 10 frame with a central divider - one on each side. I use mediums over the bottom deep so I cannot do the brood trick you are doing. I may have to start that because it hard to hold them in the bottom once the queen gets going. It's also hard to keep up with them. I look forward to having enough drawn comb so I can keep stacking them up. Right now I am getting about a medium and a half of honey out of this method. I could easily see getting 3 supers if I had the comb. Thanks!

[@carldaniels4827]

since you are using the queen excluder are there any issues with the foragers loaded with nectar and pollen going up through the excluder or is there a separate entrance in one of the top boxes?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

No they go through, foragers with pollen only gop as far as the brood nest.

[@Teshia]

When setting up the nucs where the bees can access both sides is there risk that they will kill the other queen? What strategy do you use to keep them in good relations with each other?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

To do it when there is a honeyflow on.

[@careyemory7757]

What happen if one of your hive decides to put swarm cells in do they all swarm

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

The a swarm will issue from one side .

[@lavenderbridges]

150 lbs of honey … was that from one of the two nuc set ups or combined amount from the 5 set ups?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

EACH of the two nuc set ups!

[@davidsoloninka7742]

Do you arrange the "2 nuc's" such that their entrances are on opposite sides or 180 degrees apart? Thx

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I would if my hives were not back to back on pallets

[@anthonymauceri8919]

the bees go up and down , do they fight with the other queen. Can you do this towards the end of your honey flow and continue I through the fall

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Works well as honey flow is nearing peak an I have little doubt it will work later too.

[@DialedN_07]

Do you just allow the forragers to exit on the bottom in either of the NUCs that they choose? Do you find that they choose to overcrowd one NUC vs the other?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Not usually.

[@Robert-em4bc]

Off the subject question but fire ants are getting into my hives. What should I do?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Place hive on legs which sit in cans of oil.

[@Robert-em4bc]

@Beekeeping with The Bee Whisperer okay I'll do that then thank you..

[@saitomohamed9678]

When using the mixed hive method, do the bees fight?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

No not if done correctly

[@saitomohamed9678]

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer tenkes

[@lynnerousseau9676]

I’m in the San Francisco Bay Area… we are having the same ridiculously unpredictable weird weather here. Tough for Queen mating, hard on the Bees😢too. In fact - I’m picking up a mated Queen today- ugh! She replaces a Laying Worker hive😖😱🥴

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I feel your pain!

[@jonmarcos8488]

For the big colony(150lb) you mentioned, what date did you start the double nuc?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

First week of June

[@davidsoloninka7742]

Why does two queens working in tandem (i.e. the "two nuc" method) produce so much honey. Many thx.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Its about ratios of field bees to nurse bees in each hive. And of course honeyflows.

[@00larkspur]

Ive just made up thre 3frame nucs. I realised that when put together they are perfect footprint for national boxs to stack on top of. Could you also use this method wth three

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

My hunch is that is so small swarming is very likely.

[@00larkspur]

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer thank you when I think about it I think your right.

[@2001Artfull]

Did the nucs try to swarm? If not, why not? Great video!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

It needs to be done just as honbeyflows start to peak. They usually concentrate on honey.

[@juliasamson5123]

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer I was wondering about that too - thank you. I will give this a try!

[@christopherhindle1174]

Do you not have a problem with the two colonies fighting, or do they just get over it quickly?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

No problem. (remember its in a honeyflow)

[@roxibonneville6482]

Peter I told you I needed 2 more nucs and I know just the ones! 😉lol

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

There are a lot more like those two I checked on later!

[@johnmorgan9435]

Was expecting to see something new here

[@John-qb8vd]

Oh well, too bad.

[@ApiaryManager]

NUFC supporter? The method you described works well with young queens. However, if one is old (& dies) you'll get a drop in performance but, because they're joined and get queen pheremone from the neighbour, they may not raise a new queen. You just need to be aware of that.

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Yes, had season tickets when I lived there. Thanks for the point. My queens are always young as I am continuously making nucs to sell.

[@SummitForWellness]

So how long before the honey flow do you move the nucs together to minimize fighting but also have time to build brood for the honey flow? Do you just continue moving brood up to the 1st deep until the flow happens?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

No its a onetime thing. Iwould think the ideal is 2-3 weeks before the flow but I do not live in an ideal world and its often mid or late flow! Then it certainly works less well.

[@daveemcg4526]

Toon Toon! Eddie Howes' Blank and White Army! HWTL!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

I miss my season ticket!

[@duggyfish]

How do you keep the nucs from swarming once queens fill up all the frames with brood..?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

It works during a good honeyflow without swarming but you should keep an eye on it.

[@dowow23]

Toon fan?

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Indeed! Season ticket holder when I lived there.

[@dowow23]

@Beekeeping with The Bee Whisperer had a great season this year. Let's hope it carries on!! I am in Northumberland about 17 m8kes from Newcastle.

[@AmericansBee]

Ewww a Raid spray commercial!!!

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

Really?!

[@AmericansBee]

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer yeah it was aweful!! Haha

[@dickeliezercabanlig7016]

How about putting new comb?instead of drawn comb

[@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer]

It should work.