Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" (1930) Mengelberg/NYP

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@rogerbartlet5720
@rogerbartlet5720 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for doing this, future generations will be glad you did!
@leestamm3187
@leestamm3187 2 ай бұрын
Best yet on this landmark recording. Thanks, Paul. Along with his earlier recording of "Ein Heldenleben," this performance exemplifies Mengelberg's work with this great orchestra. His trademark crisp articulation and forceful, yet nuanced interpretation are truly splendid.
@rolandonavarro3170
@rolandonavarro3170 2 ай бұрын
Great performance and recording restoration 👏
@steveluciani
@steveluciani 2 ай бұрын
So many great Eroica performances to choose from, this one among them. I compared this to the 2019 restoration, which I already thought was sonically terrific, but definitely prefer this one. Great job! I just re-listened to the Gramophone's Richard Osborne's 2021 choice for a stereo Eroica, the 1957 Monteux/VPO. It's a fabulous performance and I wonder if it could benefit at all from your deft touch? Osborne's top choice, regardless of format, is the 1944 Furtwangler/VPO, but I personally prefer Monteux's tempos and pacing.
@imadkhadra1171
@imadkhadra1171 2 ай бұрын
Waaaaaw amazing
@juaneurolo2439
@juaneurolo2439 2 ай бұрын
The performance is extraordinary, almost without the mannerisms that are characteristic of many Mengelberg performances. It is evident that the orchestra displays its own high standard forged by Toscanini's discipline in the 4 years that he had been conducting it, but Mengelberg manages to impose his convictions in this performance, among them a very adequate use of portamento, especially in the first movement. The high quality of the recorded sound is striking. There is a lot of clarity and sound fidelity. And I wonder why Toscanini's recordings from that same period with that same orchestra have an inferior sonic quality both in his official recordings and in the recorded concerts... a mystery that perhaps you could clarify. Your restoration work is magnificent and I congratulate you for it. Kind regards
@RS3DArchive
@RS3DArchive 2 ай бұрын
I am not sure I can share your assessment of Toscanini's impact on this recording. Mengelberg was a master on his own who ran a taught ship, so to speak. We can listen to any of his other recordings to be reminded of that. The interpretive issues on his other works are, I believe, purely his own decisions. As for the sonic quality of Toscanini's recordings, I think it was a matter of his own sense of aesthetics. Even when he had large venues and tape to work with his recordings tend to sound dry and even harsh. I believe that is all his taste in sound. He also tended to micro-manage his recordings in the later years; his last recording of the Beethoven 7th sounds like a circus calliope in the winds that always made me wonder where the monkey was with the cup. That's all Toscanini.
@leestamm3187
@leestamm3187 2 ай бұрын
​​@@RS3DArchive I must agree. At the time of this recording, Mengelberg had been Director of the NYPO since 1922, conducting over 400 concert performances, including well over 300 before Toscanini became co-Director in 1928. Listening to Mengelberg's 1928 NYPO Carnegie Hall recording of "Ein Heldenleben" clearly demonstrates his performance standards. While a listener may prefer one interpretive style over the other, Mengelberg's articulative standards, both with this ensemble and his Concertgebouw Orchestra, were the equal of any conductor in the world.
@juaneurolo2439
@juaneurolo2439 2 ай бұрын
@@RS3DArchive What we all agree on is that Mengelberg was a great conductor, with high standards. Richard Strauss dedicated some works to him, such as Ein Heldenleben, which are very well recorded on disc. It is true that Mengelberg conducted the NYPO from 1922 and there are acoustic studio recordings that reveal his mastery, but it is clear that Toscanini's character, good or bad, could easily change details of orchestral performance in a short time. He did so in the opera and in concert before arriving in New York, and that is why I was struck by the transparent orchestral sound of this recording. Mengelberg did not achieve this transparency on later occasions, not to detract from his fabulous Beethoven cycle of the years 1938-1940 and many other recordings with the Concertgebow. I probably failed to explain another issue well: the quality of the recorded sound. I cannot understand how a recording from 1930 manages to sound so good, with almost no surface noise and such clarity of detail in the inner voices of the work, while recordings from the same period, with the same orchestra, sound so deplorable. I have listened for example to the Misa Solemnis, Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 4 with Serkin conducted by Toscanini, and other works in which the poor sound quality is eloquent and for this reason I asked for a more technical explanation about it. I am not at all satisfied with the explanation that this would be due to "Toscanini's whims" since recordings of public concerts could not be manipulated in those times. The comment that Toscanini micromanaged his recordings is a common practice to this day and is necessary to fully achieve perfection according to the ideas of the performers. There is a lot of documentation about how many great artists practice it. The commentary on the NBC version of Beethoven's Seventh Symphony by Toscanini from 1951, apart from having nothing to do with the subject of this video, is just a personal opinion with emotional overtones. My opinion on that recording is different.
@RS3DArchive
@RS3DArchive 2 ай бұрын
@@juaneurolo2439 We all have our tastes to be sure, and it's all good. But conductors can overdo management of their recordings. It's a fine line, sometimes, as is the case with Szell, the results can be miraculous. Toscanini had his moments, too. But sometimes he would just manage too much, and it shows in his recordings. I have restored hundreds of them by now, and feel like I know him pretty well.
@juaneurolo2439
@juaneurolo2439 2 ай бұрын
@@RS3DArchive There is no doubt that everyone has their own tastes, which can be good or bad. In my case, my tastes are based on my status as a musician and on my knowledge and analysis of scores. In that sense, I look for a certain seriousness and respect in the execution of the works that I like. That is where my admiration for the great conductors comes from, especially those of the past, such as Erich Kleiber, Bruno Walter, Felix Weingartner, Fritz Busch, Willen Mengelberg, Arturo Toscanini, Pablo Casals and some public interpretations of Wilhelm Furtwangler. They were all very different from each other, but their differences remained within the fidelity to the text of the works and they brought their own vision and emotional intensity that has made them reference versions for new generations of musicians and the general public even today. There is little of this in today's musicians, but there have been some notable ones such as Abbado, Muti, Levine, Gardiner and others. I acknowledge your tremendous contribution and quality in your restoration work and I have enjoyed most of your uploads. Kind regards
@dorfmanjones
@dorfmanjones 2 ай бұрын
A lot of Toscanini discipline here. The precision and musical logic.
@leestamm3187
@leestamm3187 2 ай бұрын
Mengelberg's standards for articulative excellence were equal to those of Toscanini. Their differences were primarily in matters of interpretative style.
@dickie1512
@dickie1512 2 ай бұрын
Structural perfection, now sadly nearly lost
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