Before Ghost in the Shell - Masamune Shirow's APPLESEED Wowed Us w/ Cutting-edge Sci-Fi

[@TerryParr]

I love Appleseed so much. It gets overshadowed by Ghost in the Shell. The artwork is so amazing. More please.

[@jason5388]

Can see Appleseed influence on Jim Lee's Genoshan hardware in X-men, like the rabbit ear headsets

[@bankuei]

Appleseed is definitely one of my favorite manga. (For sheer fun, his Orion is amazing for mixing Taoism, Shintoism, Buddhism and physics with sci-fi). One thing I really appreciated about his work is that he would include details as to character actions or the politics that made it very rewarding to re-read any given issue or graphic novel and realize "Oh, this was WHY they did that" and so on.

[@rossmorton7002]

Orion is awesome, Susano-o is one of my favourite protagonists in comics and it made me laugh out loud several times. I'll always remember the scene where Susano is trying to explain some complex metaphysics to someone, where there's a small child crying in the background. He gets so annoyed he just blows the kid up. Then the mother starts crying and he blows her up, too!

[@SolomonMars]

I was in the 8th grade when Eclipse was putting these books out and I remember it was the Art Adams covers that got me to pick up the books. But I did a hard pivot from super hero comics to manga when I got these comics. My friends all hated this series because it totally changed the way i told stories. Suddenly I was into robots and politics and mysteries and not spandex and muscles. I haven't gone back since.

[@AscendantStoic]

Shirow actually studied mechanical design to create his vehicles and robot designs, that's how dedicated he is (er, well "used to be", since all he draws now is erotic stuff) And Briareos is actually a cyborg, he used to be a human at some point.

[@jinsaotome3607]

seriously. i'm like when will he stop playing and draw some real comics?! he could've made neuro hard into a manga for all that smh.

[@PiroKUSS]

Shirow's a good example of an artist unaware of their potential. He also tends to stop caring about his stuff the more he works on it and leave it open-ended all the time, Appleseed seemed to be the one that had proper closure.

[@Fenris30]

He actually still does people just focus on the porn and not HOW he's doing the porn. Personally I think he just got fed up with people changing his work to suit their philosophies and ideas and not his. Hell there's a bonus video of a anime that uses his character and mecha designs and all the people making the Anime do is bitch and moan about his work not being useble or having to change it so it makes sense to them. To me if you hire Shirow you get Shirow so why not just use his stuff.

[@patriciosoler3861]

"Teenage boy reading Spawn and FAUST.." lol! Did you hide vigil's work from your parents? Holy crap that work is deep.

[@raydillon]

I did not know Orzechowski did that logo too!!! He's amazing!

[@jinsaotome3607]

fans of shirow should check out battle angel alita and battle angel alita last order if you can. it's insane! if you liked shirow's work, i guarantee you'll like battle angel.

[@gregoryhaines1081]

There is a data book and hypernotes book that complete the four issues. They contain mini story and technical stuff. Super cool and must haves.

[@alexbraun3595]

Since Dark Horse has been doing the deluxe editions, I’m personally championing for them to release the all-in-One edition of Appleseed with the data book pages as well. Lone Wolf and Cub, and Astro Boy would be awesome to have oversized.

[@ferrarriohh]

An Applebus

[@alexbraun3595]

@@ferrarriohh That should be the name of the book too.

[@benjenkins819]

Great discussion of the Appleseed logo and Tom O. Perhaps the time has come for a Shoot or two with some of the primo letterers?. Maybe a video that focuses on great work from several standout word artists? A letterer is an unsung hero--noticeable when they suck and invisible when their work is at its most excellent. With Ed's focus on storytelling and Jim's deep sense of design, you're the fellas to get r dun.

[@DrDoomPool]

Hell yes, one of my all-time favorite cartoonists

[@jeremystone286]

I also remember getting the individual issues when they came out (in my teens) and was disappointed at the confusing story and lack of action. Sold them in a purge years ago, but recently found all of them in dollar boxes and got them to give it another try. If nothing else, the art is incredible.

[@RVAlien]

Art Adams doing Appleseed art is something I never thought existed. Super crazy

[@RVAlien]

@@RarebitFiends thanks for the info homie. Imma definitely go digging for some issues this weekend

[@andreartart]

I read the original eclipes comicbooks. What blow me away. all the art is reversed for western reading. and the art is still GOOD! no flaws. shirows worlds are deep and so mature.

[@PiroKUSS]

Except for Orion and Dominion, lol. I don't mind the flipping.

[@jdsalvador3]

Dudes, what a great video. I've been thinking about Shirow lately, specifically Appleseed, and just found this chat. One you said you would have fallen in love with it if you found it early, and that's exactly what I did. I came across the original Eclipse releases at a flea market when I was way too young to be reading them and I've been a fan since. I still have those original books.

[@81hewp]

I have the Eclipse comics. I picked up a few, enjoyed, and I have been picking up his work ever since.

[@iDEATH]

If my avatar didn't give it away, I'm a huge fan of the GitS anime, but I've always found Appleseed to be the superior manga. Shirow is still my favourite mangaka, though it's a shame he stopped drawing manga ages ago and that we'll never get Appleseed vol. 5 (IIRC, they were finally going to head to Poseidon?). And don't forget Orion and Dominion!

[@ferrarriohh]

How dare u weebs leave out Black Magic

[@PiroKUSS]

@@AxeMan808 It depends on the reader, really.

[@FrankGulp]

The story is very simple in this issue. In the end we see a group of terrorists trying to make a coup. The presence of Deunan and his partner force their hand and they feel compelled to take them out in order not to have problems in the future. Deunan's mech has been presented to us previously and the author believes that the designs of the various mechs help reading during clashes. For me it succeeds, never had problems in those scenes. The forces driving the various groups will be defined at each level in the next issues. Briareos is a cyborg.

[@mightybotstudio]

Man, you guys keep showing off cool stuff like this and I'm going to be broke!

[@lmeeken]

If you're itching for more Shirow, and are entertained by his chibi interludes, I'd recommend his Dominion series, which leans into comedy a bit more than Appleseed or Ghost in the Shell. It was my entry point to Shirow as a 90s middle schooler (because the animated adaptation aired on the Sci Fi channel - not sure how S & P let that happen). The humor has probably aged horribly, but it's interesting to see him return to the property across Dominion in his very early days, and Dominion: Conflict much later in his career with more books under his belt.

[@dwaynemuth8775]

This stuff was a breath of fresh air especially during that time! Opened up a lot of doors to creative opportunities! Thank God! Comics have a amazing potential that goes around the world and back! Thanks, guys! Keep up the great work! Definitely read more manga!!

[@waifubreaks1572]

I have the Dark Horse version of the 4 volumes, I had a blast reading it. Also noticed the version you have opens left to right.

[@axledestrl8172]

Nice. I hope you do Tank police or Orion also.

[@Untitled_Coffee_Art]

That size really works. A little big in the hands and the bleeds look so gorgeous.

[@princepjohnson]

Love his art style and how cool he makes machinery look. Shout out for creating two badass black characters too.😎. Aramaki did some yellow and whitewashing in his version...

[@adamarcher7847]

need more shirow in print!

[@alanlawrence6584]

I forget where I read this, but Briareos is a human being whose body was almost entirely destroyed in a bomb blast. Deunan's dad--his boss and quasi-adopted father--has his spine and brain implanted in a cyborg body. It's implied in book 3 he has an augmented brain, which enables him to do the kind of electronic calculations he needs to do to operate his cyborg body--but it's also suggested in one of the books he could operate larger mechanical constructs--I think they reference an aircraft carrier being something he could control--if he chose to. He is supposed to be this sort of top-of-the-line cyborg, a Hecatonshires model. Apparently the romance between Deunan and Briareos predates his being made into a cyborg. Deunan and Briareos are supposed to have been members of a SWAT team in pre-WWIII Los Angeles. That's why they're in high demand in Olympus--they hardly have anybody trained this way in Olympus.

[@alanlawrence6584]

Great to know I remembered it right! I was very into Appleseed. I wish Shirow would have finished the series. None of the Appleseed follow-up stuff (movies, that Appleseed Alpha comic) strikes the right tone for me.

[@landowalker5479]

Rob Liefeld has gone on the record on his podcast and various interviews that Appleseed was a direct influence on his design for Cable.

[@Junketsuadidas]

Appleseed is only overtaken by Battle Angel to me. Such an amazing series

[@ferrarriohh]

I picked up several of these Eclipse* American prints in stores on Long Island back in the day. Later i was able to get most of the smaller format reprints, plus Orion and Black Magic, plus Dominion Tank Police, and all of these Dark Horse collectible tpbs. When backlash started on Ghost in the Shell (white ScarJo Motoko) I just knew they’d be better off aiming for Appleseed. Deunan Knute is supposedly South African, and the guy who played Batou would’ve made an excellent Bri. Such an intelligent action manga, yrs before his time & peers.

[@CashMoneyMillien]

Briarios is supposed to be like a Robocop type character If I’m not mistaken; her old human partners brain in a metal body. I believe the two pieces of media have very similar themes and I wonder if one helped inspire the other, this was 3 years before Robocop came out.

[@RizeTB1]

Wow that is something I didn’t realize! Appleseed was before ghost in the shell? I freaking loved Appleseed.

[@montagethemovie5947]

Bob Layton studying them metal mecha textures

[@Jameswindsorsmith]

Fun fact: everything Shiro designed was functional

[@ferrarriohh]

So the Mecha bodysuits Jim referred to were translated to *landmates* (plural) or single a landmate. Not sure if that was an odd direct translation, or an English language intended term. Im sure somebody else can clarify that

[@kingbingus]

Do you guys know about the covers Arthur Adams did for the versions put out by Eclipse Comics? I'm only half way through the video so I don't know if you guys mention it. I'm guessing they had him do it because he had such a manga-inspired style for an American artist.

[@bearsfunnypages]

I'd love to see you all unpack Rabbithead "from" Best American Comics 2006. Just discovered this series and so much of it is right up y'alls alley

[@jojobizadTRASH]

Any plans in covering Araki or Yudetemago down the line? They're my favorite artists tbh

[@snakemont]

APPleseed is so cool!

[@torrentthom4734]

Ruined downtown buildings are a common pastiche of futurist manga and anime, prob due to Japan' frequent earthquakes and 'zilla attacks.

[@RoboBoddicker]

That's funny about the logo. The title in the original Japanese prints is just super-plain Japanese text. But the reprints after the US release incorporate the little apple and seeds into the Japanese characters. So they must have loved that design too :D

[@damon9471]

I had no idea that Art Adams did covers for the Eclipse issues 🤯

[@PLOJ]

i'm lucky i got this 2 weeks ago

[@thepeanutgallery6100]

Would you guys maybe review Bio Booster Armor Guyver mangas?

[@2hype63]

Love that Series.

[@Homeschoolsw6]

rad

[@psychonautpupildiallater7734]

When i was a young adult collecting comics, i missed out on all this stuff, for 2 reasons, limited expendable income,. and being intimidated by manga in general. I was in awe of the artwork, but felt the stories were out of my depth,.....

[@russworks2882]

Shirow almost seems to devolve as he learns more sophisticated production techniques and moves toward those plastic digital (fastidiously censored) fetish girls. The first couple of Intron Depot books have some really nice spreads and then it gets weird and artificial. He's so good at line art and composition, but it's probably less laborious and more profitable for him to turn away from comics.

[@AscendantStoic]

I'm all for erotic and pin-up art (and he is good at it) but I still feel it's a serious waste of his talent, he could do so much more, the detailed mechanical designs, the worldbuilding, the cool characters ... I wish he returns and creates a new cyberpunk/sci-fi manga series in the near future.

[@vbmiguel]

Cyborg

[@fernandopalenzuela]

Where the F are all these dollar bins you guys are finding?

[@stevena488]

And now he does porn. Strange how that works. I wonder if he gets royalties from Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell so he really doesn't have to work for a living anymore so he can just draw porn to his hearts content? Because his most famous stuff tends to get adapted again and again

[@RizeTB1]

Don’t understand why so many comments shitting on him. Even though he makes it look easy, it’s still a lot of hard work.

[@stevena488]

@@RizeTB1 nah, i ain't shitting on him. He's 10x the artist that I am (I still learn from his digital colouring FROM his H work because his digital works still gorgeously rendered). Just thought it was fascinating because usually, from my understanding of the Japanese industry, people start in doujin/H comics and then break the mainstream and stay in mainstream stuff from then on (Ken Akumatsu and the like). Also, I tend to wonder if rights issues are a thing over in Japan because that's a grey area for me in terms of the Japanese publishing industry because I don't know if mangaka get reprint rights or if they surrender the IP to the publishers. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

[@stevena488]

@@essaywhu not saying that's a bad thing. Just saying that it's something different because normally when folk go mainstream, most tend to stay there (with him being an exception). He obviously didn't and went to do H work which is still hard work because his rendering is SUPER time consuming (I know. I attempted to emulate his colouring and it took me upwards of 4-6 hours).

[@AscendantStoic]

@@RizeTB1 His erotic/pin-up art is cool, but it still feels like a waste of his talents, he played a huge role in building up the cyberpunk/sci-fi manga scene along with Otomo (Akira) and Kishiro (Battle Angel Alita) and inspired countless people with Ghost of the Shell and Appleseed. It's fine if he doesn't want to work on a tight schedule or under pressure anymore, but I think he has enough clout and recognition that many manga studios wouldn't say no to him if he were to create a sci-fi manga with a more slower pace (think European style comics) and it's done when it's done (no weekly or monthly schedule, just a full graphic novel on release), hopefully we will see something more substantial from him in the future besides erotic/pin-up art.

[@ferrarriohh]

I want to say he has put out a PG manga in recent years? Edit: he writes a manga called Pandora in the Crimson Shell.