Beginner Vs Pro Composer: Can you hear the difference?

You need some bravery to make the decision to write your first composition down on paper. Even more to then submit it to a KZbin nerd to mess around with! That's just what Frank Rensen did - watch to see how it went! To follow more from Frank go to his channel: / @frankjdrensen3958
Thanks to Aeolian Winds / aeolianwinds
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0:00 Intro - meet Frank and his girlfriend Mieke
2:30 Frank's piece in its original form
5:57 Tip 1: Hold Stuff Back
8.38 Tip 2: Draw the Ear
9:26 Tip 3: Vary Melody & Accompaniment
11:10 Tip 4: Change up the Patterns
13:26 Tip 5: Don't think like a theorist
15:10 Tip 6: Think about register
16:47 Tip 7: Direction of Register
18:17 Tip 8: Musical Metaphors
19:15 Tip 9: Integrate Ideas
20:20 Tip 10: Overall Balance
24:00 My re-worked version of Frank's piece.
27:00 Reactions from Frank and Mieke

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Well, if Frank and Mieke ever get married they’ve now got the perfect piece to play them down the aisle! Cracking job David! 😊

[@danjwheatley]

No pressure!

[@frankjdrensen3958]

I actually hadn't thought of that, but that's a very good plan, hmmm :)

[@jameslutz6942]

David Bennett REALLY wants to get hired for this particular wedding gig, eh?

[@danjwheatley]

@Ali they did tuplets for toddlers :)

[@tomwhitcombe7621]

@@frankjdrensen3958 Put a ring on it dude :p

[@frankjdrensen3958]

This was an absolutely amazing experience. Thanks so much David, you're so kind! Oh and instructive, of course! :)

[@DBruce]

It was a joy to meet you Frank, looking forward to piece no.2!

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@DBruce Coming right up!

[@typicaldark3884]

Frank, it's so nice to see a fellow Dutch composer on the field! Keep up the good work buddy, I hope you will go places with your music :) It must have felt a dream come true being seen by another (great) composer, isn't it?

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@typicaldark3884 Thanks/dankje!! It really felt amazing. Thanks for the kind words!

[@polkmusic]

@@frankjdrensen3958 A very nice piece. I really enjoyed it. Keep composing.

[@sakuilvonen]

Could there be a five composers video with this idea? A minute long peace by a "rookie" and five composers doing their crazy covers of it but still trying to keep it recognizable.

[@willsams6218]

This is a splendid idea!

[@bcpeters1457]

Yes please!

[@danielfryer9693]

Ooh yes!

[@CuratorOfRealities]

I would watch the shit out of that (even more than I already do to the other videos).

[@wheelchairfly]

YES!

[@zachheilman784]

If we can stretch the metaphor of the piece as representing a romantic relationship, to me Frank's original version is an expression of someone experiencing that relationship for themselves, and David's rework is like a parent watching their child experience that same relationship with the benefit of more life experience and sharing in the same joys but also able to better see the nuances.

[@Lawrencelot89]

That's a nice way of looking at it!

[@Butlinsgvn6]

Beautiful metaphor, you're totally right

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

Yep I thought the same!

[@harshkumbhar3015]

That's basically what I felt without realizing while watching this video!

[@TrentJacobs]

One thing I immediately noticed about the original was that, as a bassoonist, it was a very taxing part. Dotted halves the whole way through makes for a very tiring experience. David's changes, while making the piece a bit more technically difficult (slurs to high D, 16th note runs, yadda yadda) it makes it far less physically demanding from an endurance standpoint. There are more obvious points to breathe and rest and having a variety of registers and rhythms means the embouchure uses different muscles throughout, rather than sitting on the same muscles used the same way.

[@elenaflores1774]

That's very interesting to think about--how more knowledge of the instruments themselves and how they're played may affect how a composer structures their part.

[@marcusberggren9241]

i liked both versions. Frank really has talent!

[@frankjdrensen3958]

Wow, thanks so much!!

[@adipsous]

I honestly like both versions equally. The longer, more evolved and academic, one has its obvious musically mature pluses. But the original retains a purity that gets somewhat forgotten, or just not allowed its innocence, in comparison. They're just different people, like an older and younger sibling. Both wonderful, lovely people to meet. Great tutorial on how to approach, rework, and improve (haha) one's works, however. Cheers from San Francisco, California, USA.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@adipsous That's a really nice comment, thank you so much! :)

[@misaacsable]

That was educational from a technical music perspective; but it was also just kind, generous and romantic. Human beings at their best. Love to you David, Frank and Mieke ❤

[@rubenfernando2457]

Yep, this commentary summarize the whole experience. Thank you for the kind words.

[@teegeevee42]

This is honestly so inspiring. I wish there were more opportunities for aspiring composers to get their work played. Perhaps it could be established (as some kind of rule of honor) for professional groups that they do one "open submission" piece at each concert instead of only playing things by classical / known contemporary composers.

[@1pixle]

Revitalize the art of composition? I love it

[@axolotl8694]

great idea. strongly agree. it should be a matter of honour and responsibility that you program and play the music being composed now. something new at every concert. the stuff of dreams.

[@TchaikovskyFDR]

My High School Music Program would do that - but we were fortunate to have 5 orchestras, a marching band, a jazz band, and a student body that was just shy of 3500.

[@1pixle]

@@TchaikovskyFDR 5 orchestras 😳

[@tasfa10]

That would be so great!!

[@christopherlynn755]

In a world filled with war, divisiveness, hatred, disrespect, and never-ending bad news it is easy to head toward emotional disconnection--but then something like this video, filled with creativity, kindness, intelligence, and love comes along and pulls me back from the brink. Thank you David, Frank, and Aeolian Winds.

[@Nooticus]

Completely agree. This is one of the best channels on KZbin

[@peaceofkake1085]

It's important to be reminded that no matter what horrible crap goes on in the world, there are people being human in the good sense of the word, quietly going about life doing things like what you see in this video.

[@MuzixMaker]

Amen, brother

[@robertYTB78g]

I'm really glad you posted this, thanks, I couldn't have said it better.

[@sfglim5341]

There are way more humans than monsters on this planet

[@abstractdaddy]

A really thoughtful video, learned a lot listening to the reasoning behind some of your decisions.

[@nom...]

Nice to see you here! I like your art.

[@andrechris-sargent9921]

Oh, Hey, Umami.

[@pianojay5146]

it's the safe mode guy!

[@JohnathandosSantos]

Man, this vid had me smiling the whole way through! Very nice David!!!

[@DBruce]

I smiled a lot while editing it. Frank's smile is very infectious!

[@Lobstrominous]

Me too!

[@ericrakestraw664]

The main flute melody reminded me of the waltz theme by Michael Giacchino in the Pixar film "Up." Great job, Frank, composing the piece and great job, David, for making the piece sound fuller and richer.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

Thank you!! Up is too cute :)

[@minerscale]

@@frankjdrensen3958 Same composer as Ratatouille! Giacchino's music is just so infectiously wonderful.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@minerscale didn't know that! Makes so much sense :)

[@minerscale]

@@frankjdrensen3958 By the way, wonderful composition! I'm a music composition student myself and I'm currently stuck in the weeds in a highly experimental slog of a major work which I'm hoping will work. It's very refreshing and reassuring to see highly accessible and tonal music treated in such a careful, well thought through way. I feel like us composers need to be reminded that simple is actually quite desirable, and that cliche can be adopted quite successfully if used judiciously.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@minerscale thanks so much! Is your music on your channel? I'd love to hear!

[@davidteitelbaum7335]

Rensen’s original (or can we say “Rensen’s Original”?) is gorgeous. Honestly. He wrote a beautiful love-letter to his girlfriend. [Speaking of metaphors, the breathlessness of the writing is in itself quite meaningful… (if slightly unmanageable in real life; we do gotta breath…)] But the idea of expanding and inserting a trove of pertinent, gently elevating contents and magnifications from the experienced Bruce style-that truly brings this love letter from a breathless, heartfelt, private testament of love, to a deeply satisfying, universal piece of literature.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

Thanks so much :)

[@MuzixMaker]

Well said!

[@MuzixMaker]

@@frankjdrensen3958 Frank you have a bright future ahead of you! Best of luck, continued success, and don’t let your lovely girlfriend get away! As we say in the US, she’s a keeper.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

@@MuzixMaker thanks! She definitely is :)

[@almightyhydra]

I think the sweet spot will be somewhere between the two versions. The revised version has better structure and some lovely harmonies (the oboe/flute rising sixths at 24:42 in particular, later echoed by the clarinet/bassoon). But there are sections where a lot of simplicity of the original was replaced by quite noisy/busy stuff and I felt that detracted from the intended mood of the original. Great video though, very instructive stuff and how lovely for someone to see their composition performed by professionals.

[@kaykamusic9338]

Totally agree

[@martialmelody]

As a fellow composer studying music at university, this made me smile more than you could imagine! You really nailed your approach to this David; getting the best out of it for you, your audience, Frank, and Mieke!

[@lucassantosdedeus463]

i feel like Frank's original sound more like pixar and David's version ended up sonunding a lot like studio ghibli (Joe Hisaishi style). And both were great!!!

[@efmusic04]

hahaha that's actually true

[@annikagiertz7446]

Yes, I hear what you mean. But I also thought both versions had a strong resemblance to the Ghibli "Sprited Away" ending song "Always with me" by Yuomi Kimura.

[@emilyrln]

It's really interesting how well your ten points apply to writing a story, particularly the task of going back through and foreshadowing the ending. It was great to see the reasoning you used when picking things to emphasize and transform and draw out. The original felt like a song, and the revision feels like a story or a play. What an amazing collaboration! Y'all had me crying happy tears to see their reaction to the performance 😭🥰

[@benjaminmiddaugh2729]

One of my favorite (occasionally) recurring themes from earlier seasons of the Writing Excuses podcast is Howard Taylor's exploration of the similarities between writing and musical composition in terms of approaching storytelling. The more I am exposed to them both, the more I'm convinced he's correct. I don't have specific episodes (and I'm not going to go look at the moment) but they're mostly between seasons 6 and 10.

[@navsh]

It is a beautiful piece of music, wrapped in a moving 'hero's journey', with a topping of a rich music lesson, which is VERY accessible even for a layman such as myself. Thanks David, for making such consistent, high quality content ... I loved this!!!

[@UprightJoe]

Anybody who has a boxed set of Fawlty Towers videos clearly has impeccable taste and will do just fine in their life and career.

[@Nooticus]

Im almost crying, wow... 🥲 what a video!!! David you have smashed it out of the park yet again; the initial idea for this video, the execution, choice of guest composer, exceptional editing, EVERYTHING is just perfection! Frank and Mieke are the cutest couple ever and I wish them many more years of happiness together

[@Nooticus]

apologies for the essay David, I just wanted to show my appreciation as much as I can!

[@DBruce]

Very much appreciated!

[@comet1072]

@@Nooticus Hey, a name I recognise haha! You're a master of finding the 'smaller' channels that need more attention :)

[@Nooticus]

@@comet1072 why thank u legend!! u are great at that too!

[@steevf]

As a fledgling composer myself, this video had some very profound tips on composition. Things that took me decades to figure out and things that I had never thought of. A lot to think about here.

[@enkiitu]

It really needs to be said, how perfectly Dutch people speak English. It’s really not a given. But astounding. I experienced it first hand. They sound so natural and with a rich vocabulary.

[@musical_lolu4811]

What kind of comment is this.

[@guille____]

That was a great video idea! So entertaining and informative. Frank seemed very happy. You're a nice guy David :)

[@khaledshokry5070]

Yes 👍

[@Bigandrewm]

Speaking of taking advantage of not understanding my own logic or just having mistakes, I remember in one of my best big band charts I ended up just missing 8 bars of drums and it got auto-marked as rests in the notation program I was using. Take it to rehearsal and it actually was kind of amazing that dropping drums in that spot did a great job of preparing the next section, so I left the "out" in, so to speak.

[@josealfonso5260]

This is amazing. My brother asked me to re-arrange his proposal song into something like this. I finished arranging the intro but felt like it was too much at first. Then the first tip here right away helped me! Im gonna rework on my arrangement. Thank you!

[@jenschristianblom]

This was really beautiful. not only musically, but also in terms of the warm athmosphere the co-composer/teacher provides, and which is evident in much of his other output.

[@CN-cb6yu]

"Welcome to the world of composition." This feels especially impactful for me who just got into composition. There is this indescribable feeling after penning down the last note of the first ever complete composition that reminds you you have crossed the threshold and entered a new world. Hearing a piece that you wrote being performed live is incredible, seeing the musicians putting in time and effort for it makes all the doubts and insecurities you have to face while writing worth it. I wish I had someone saying such a thing to me when I recorded my first composition. Congrats, Frank! It is a sweet and beautiful piece. You can be proud of it for sure!

[@brianyule1289]

I'm looking forward to reading, "The Joys of Accident & Fortune: A Memoir" by David Bruce.

[@your_guitar_buddy]

This was a master class in composition and arrangement for wind quartet. Lovely. Thanks for making such great content.

[@JazzDuets]

These tips are tremendous as well for improvisors to think about when constructing a solo!

[@timphipps404]

"You're a composer Harry!"

[@nathang4682]

Amazing video. Frank is very mature to be able to let you rework his baby like that. A lot of people, especially beginners, can't handle criticism no matter how constructive it is. I loved this!

[@jonathanjonsson9205]

I'm having a very tough time in life lately and this is one of the few things that made me smile. So much love, joy and care. Sometimes music is what keeps us going.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

[@jgunther3398]

BWV 1 through 200

[@lexabexa]

“It’s maybe even when you move away from knowing what your doing that your own voice starts to emerge” Probably my favorite line in this video. It applies to so much of all fields of art

[@GeraldWilhelmBradenComposer]

The first things I always notice about compositions by inexperienced composers David, is that they often don't know the ranges of the instruments, and they also often don't leave room for the musicians to breath in wind and brass parts. I always taught my former college students to think of the music as a conversation, and that no person can just keep talking and talking, without taking time to breath, and also think about what they are going to say. I started off as a boy in Vienna playing the bass and cello, and then received my first music degree at the Cleveland Institute of Music as a classical guitarist, after coming to the USA as a teen. I later also received a Masters in Piano, Theory, and Orchestration, and taught myself how to play the Alto Sax, so that I would have a better understanding of wind instruments. I came up with a little exercise to share with my music students. I would tell them to make a fist with one of their hands, and to tightly blow into their fisted hand between their thumb and forefinger, for the length of any written passage they scored for any wind instruments. They would often run out of breath before the end of the written passage, and discovered how long a wind musician can usually play, before having to take a breath. This in turn, made them better at their scoring, and also at learning how to use "phrasing" for their written parts. ... Peace! 🎼❤☮

[@vaclavmichalekmusic]

I would totally love this as a series! It's like watching a musician's dream come true with all the passion and excitement. Plus it's really educational to see/hear the original idea with all the "pitfalls" one often fails to see at first - and then experience the piece "fixed"

[@Machinesofdrunkenhate]

😊1❤

[@DJ-3maj]

This is heartwarming! David you are an example for all of us. It reminds me of the Jacob Collier's work of vocal reharmonizing on youtube. As a inexperienced composer I find your advice on further developing a piece of music tremendously valuable! I've watched all of your videos and have been following you for years, and hope you make more videos like this. Thank you

[@DBruce]

Thanks. That's really interesting because I'd just been thinking about Jacob's reharms. Involving 'amateurs' in the artistic process is so rewarding for everyone. Another inspiration for me is the Grayson Perry Art Club series (a UK thing)

[@2ndRodeo_Keziah]

Sounds like a piece made for a Jane Austen film. 🥰 What a talented-and lucky-lad!

[@Warrenvidalspella]

I cried haha. Seeing how this young composer listens carefully to your advice, and the emotions when they listen to the final piece, it's magic. Thanks for doing this !

[@BsktImp]

Awww... What a lovely time for all concerned. Frank and Mieke seem such a happy young couple - what a lovely present from Frank to his girlfriend. A new enterprise for David too, re-composing for lovebirds XD. Really good from the Aeolian ensemble to realise the original and modified pieces. So happy for for Frank at such a young age to hear a piece of his played by real life musicians. I'll be dead soon and have accepted that I will never have this rare privilege.

[@frankjdrensen3958]

That's so sweet! Thank you. I was really glad too!

[@TheBartgry]

I know Frank quite well, such a versatile and great dude. Keep it up 💪

[@frankjdrensen3958]

Bart! YOU are a great dude :)

[@AlbertKimMusic]

13:40 I love the point you've made about accidental discoveries, I always felt guilty whenever something accidentally turned out well, I felt that it wasn't really genuine since it wasn't on purpose

[@MichaelJohnson-composer]

His first version was pretty amazing for a first ever composition. Dayum.

[@kalgan9489]

I bow my knee before your work. It's amazing !

[@tandybare]

such a young guy with so much emotional direction and purpose is incredible!!

[@braydenjones6561]

This was a very lovely and wonderful video! I absolutely loved it! I think Frank Rensen's original piece was already perfect. It encapsulated the tone he was looking for extremely well. David's rearrangement/reworking of the the piece just added polish to what was already there. It took it from 100% to say 130% or 140%. Though, in some sense, I feel like David's rearrangement expanded the piece to fit a wider setting, maybe like them in their home town, versus the original which may have been simpler but was potentially more personal (i.e. fit a more personal setting, like inside of a home). It is hard to say which is fully better. They were both very stunning and great! Thanks for the video!!!!

[@MelodiCat753]

I am so happy that you gave Frank an opportunity for his piece to be played, while also providing constructive ideas on composition! As a composer myself in college, hearing my music played live is one of the most emotional opportunities possible, and it's very motivating for new composer to get that!

[@bloxybuzzstudios3557]

Wow....... real people reaching out to one another in a loving way....sharing, participating, encouraging one another....and in person, one face to another. All of this far more beautiful than the music will ever be, and sadly, rapidly disappearing.

[@Silks]

I can't think of a sweeter gift to give an aspiring composer

[@intheblink]

Really great video! What a difference the suggestions made. Love the reworked version.

[@jeturpo]

This video made my day! Thank you so much!

[@BlackHermit]

Amazing upgrade! Learned a lot.

[@emysu]

This is such a wholesome video, loved it!

[@adamlykkegaard7289]

This is a really cool format!

[@Nooticus]

Lmao

[@adamjnotthecongressmanschi7026]

frank's collection of stuff behind him is going to make my dad so happy :D

[@frankjdrensen3958]

Hahaha I'm glad :)

[@Mystic13135]

I learned so much from this! Thank you!

[@juanmaidana8185]

This is extremely wholesome. You two guys are great!

[@abeseo2160]

this was very helpful, thank you!

[@danielvenzuela]

Excellent, I will show this video with my students! It is very good learning. Hello from Bolivia

[@johnwynne-qx6br]

So interesting in so many ways and so much learnt in such a short time. All very talented and humble. Fantastic video.

[@handznet]

Amazing video - content like this makes YT a better place.

[@shanehagan]

You absolutely killed it with this video David. Bravo.

[@frankwolff5488]

This was tremendously beautiful! Thank you to the both of you!

[@tubeblower7391]

Wonderful job by Frank and bravo to you David for doing such a fabulous job in reworking it and sharing your insights with him and the rest of us!

[@enriquematiasreimermillan5120]

That was a very nice gesture, David! Congrats to Frank!

[@lucasgust7720]

Great video. I enjoyed so much.

[@anterix1999]

Fantastic! Amazing lesson and music.

[@kylewise1947]

Thank you to everyone that worked on this. This made my morning.

[@lennmusicman]

This is one of the most wholesome videos I've seen in ages! Also I couldn't resist tearing up hearing the end result; it's a very moving piece.

[@Yunamyhero]

This was so instructive! Thank you!

[@happykeromusic2937]

This video is very enlightening. Thanks David for letting us enjoy not only the melody but also the mechanism behind it.

[@HeriJoensen]

This is just a beautiful and insightful video.

[@janach1305]

In the developed version, I no longer found myself hearing bits of “Casey would waltz with a strawberry blonde.” I’m sure the young composer had no awareness of that old song, but I learned it from my mother, who learned it from her mother. My grandmother was a very talented pianist, and could play popular songs going back to the late 1800s and going forward to the 1960s.

[@lindacowles756]

G'day, Jana CH! I, too, thought the beginning sounded like "Casey would waltz with a strawberry blonde" when I heard the young composer's version.

[@hussamalkaissi4453]

David Bruce, not only I've enjoyed your music (starting from "Gumboots") and your videos assays on music, but this just seems to be the nicest thing to do for young composers. I was smiling for 30 minutes :)

[@bradsims5116]

I loved the waltz feel . Thank you frank and david.

[@linusnyqvist5290]

What an amazing video, so emotional! This was fantastic to watch! Good on you!

[@mickwoolley8267]

Have to say Frank produced a simple yet really beautiful tune and the ending is so lovely, it is a tear jerker. OK, David, your changes were also not bad - the explanation of why, though - that was really instructive. Thanks Both!

[@DarkSideofSynth]

Great piece, versions and insights.

[@samuelhillmusic]

Really heartwarming to see Frank and Mieke's smiles as they heard the performance of the reworked version!!

[@Kcikd011]

Wow! Frank is so lucky and I'm so happy to see it played. I'm inspired by this! I'll try composing too it must be really tough though!

[@jaznseedski]

This was so incredibly kind. Bravo, David. And: a fantastic reworking!!! It really kept the spirit of Frank's original piece alive thru the entire thing

[@benjamindhollander]

This was so fun to watch. And very educational! Great work!!!

[@lukeculberson]

Very nice video! Your production is always top notch.

[@MuzixMaker]

David this is wonderful. Well done!

[@chriscapaudio]

Brillant idea David!

[@domdib]

All very useful tips - I'll be trying some of these out!

[@theGameBrass]

This was a wonderful and inspiring idea. I love how you were able to explain each alteration that you made as part of an easily digestible set of pointers. The final fleshed-out version sounds glorious and remains so recognizable and true to Frank's original vision. Very lovely, thank you, Frank, and Aeolian Winds so much for putting this together.

[@will_spin]

Thank you, David! You always amaze and inspire me with your videos, I absolutely loved this one!!

[@maestrorafaelribeiro]

I am happy that I support this channel. Keep up the wonderful job!

[@basstian]

Marvellous piece and quite an inspiring video.

[@connorhargreaves9585]

Wow! Fantastic musicianship and sound from Aeolian Winds!

[@redkefka]

So wholesome and inspiring. Great stuff by all involved.

[@brothergoodfoot]

What a wonderful video, thanks for these pointers!

[@karelvandereijk3104]

This video format was great! Awesome to see a journey a piece can take!

[@markdavenport2613]

That was brilliant! There's so much insightful points made in this video. Thanks for sharing this.

[@cellocase7148]

So sweet. The whole video was heartwarming.

[@richardgoss4777]

This sounds like a mozart phrasing. It's a lovely piece.

[@christopherfederici2776]

Beautiful and beyond inspiring. This was an incredible endeavor.

[@binhnam]

This was super educational and very helpful! Thank you so much for making this video, I hope to see more videos like this :)

[@samarsa.]

Brilliant! Love the entire endeavour! 🎶