Part Two: The 12 Tribes: The Worst Cult You've Never Heard Of | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@LunaLasceria]

If holding hands is "sexual contact", then "bestiality" could mean, like, petting a dog.

[@alexcarter8807]

Actually, no, I'd expect they were actually f*cking dogs. Have you ever lived in deep Red territory?

[@noop1111]

Heavy petting

[@LexYeen]

​@@alexcarter8807In fairness to their beliefs, both probably happened and got lumped together as the same act.

[@RooneyMac]

​​@@alexcarter8807apparently one of my classmates fucked a goat 🤢 mind you, it was at the height of the War On Terror™️ brand of racism, which should show the hypocrisy in certain racist claims parroted by the same assholes of that era that I hope I don't have to indicate. That was Effingham. No, seriously. Effingham. You read that correctly.

[@j.afro775]

​@@LexYeenTennessean. This comment is true 😅

[@pallasathena2228]

Something that occurred to me while listening- given that the cult considered kissing and holding hands to be sexual contact, is it possible what they were calling 'bestiality' was, in fact, just broken and lonely little kids cuddling with farm animals in a desperate bid for some kind of warmth and affection?

[@gapsule2326]

Or just plain lies by terrible adults

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Yep, totally possible to be one or the other or both.

[@evandelozier1851]

Unfortunately as a ex member I know that there was bestiality that happened there but it was because of the the difficulty of having normal relationships I don't blame them I still think it's disgusting and sick but I understand there desperation just wanting to feel something

[@Eurobunker]

@@evandelozier1851 it almost sounds as If all the perfection there is making marriage unnaccessary hard which is Kind of sad. They should make marriage more pragmatic. That way there would also be even more Babies 🥰😁

[@evandelozier1851]

@@Eurobunker marriage is only allowed if the elders consider one to be mature and if they think it would help the cult out.

[@kateherrick]

I am that "6 year old daughter of Mary Wiseman". A friend sent me these two episodes. At first, the thought of someone I don't know telling my story that they had nothing to do with sat wrong with me. But after listening to your episodes, you did pretty well. Some of your facts incorrect, but it's the most spot on report of anything I've heard of so far. Thanks for bringing awareness to such an evil organization.

[@Eurobunker]

@@kateherrick are you an ex member? I am considering to join after wwoofing and learning to adore the group and their mission. In hard Times ahead with Satans rule they might be the only Option Not to Take the Mark. Why do you call them evil? Arent you of noble First gen tribes Heritage? Daughter of the holy ones ☺️

[@kateherrick]

Yes, I was born and raised there. lived there for 30 years. Do NOT join that cult. On the outside, it is very enticing; good wholesome food, beautiful homes, seemingly loving and caring people. Yes, there are some really really good and kind people there. But everyone that is in leadership are completely corrupt. They hold the people to standards that they do not keep themselves. There is extreme, psychological, emotional abuse. You will be completely brainwashed to believe that you deserve that abuse. You can find a good wholesome lifestyle with kind people in the real world that does not have an agenda to brainwash you and use you for their own selfish gain and power. They actively defend rapists and harbor them, meanwhile doing nothing to support the victims. I was told that I deserved all the physical and sexual abuse that I received because I was “unsubmissive”.

[@vivixion]

Oh whoa, sorry for your loss and everything else you had to experience there. I'm glad you were able to get out! Can I ask what was incorrect about his retelling? (no need to answer if you don't want to, wishing you nothing but happiness either way 💛)

[@WhitetailMusic]

God this is so wild. I remember a few years back when I was working as a trucker (awful job, wouldnt recommend it) and passing by just the most unhinged billboard out in the middle of nowhere that was like "Save your son, use the rod upon him" with a referebce to some bible verses on it and it's kinda chilling realizing that that wasnt just a 1 off unhinged sign but I was probably driving through a child abuse cult territory at the time

[@zachthompson9976]

Is being a trucker really that bad? I've been toying with the idea of getting cdl for a while now. What makes it so shitty?? I'm just so sick of factory work 😔

[@WhitetailMusic]

@zachthompson9976 it really depends a lot on how you get your CDL, there's a lot of companies that their real business is getting people through CDL training as quickly and cheaply as possible to cash in on government grants they get for every person they successfully get a drivers liscense. They put you in terrible OTR routes trying intentionally to keep you as far from home as possible and will run you dry, their contract saying if you dont complete a year or so of work for them theyll charge you for the CDL training threatening you with thousands of dollars of debt. During that time youll be driving for at minimum 11 hour shifts everyday. Truckers labor laws actually does not account for overtime or limit the amount of days you can work consecutively, instead you have less hours you can work a day which is supposed to force you to take breaks but the company is going to push that as long as possible until theyre forced to give you a single day off to reset your clock time. It... really wasnt a pleasant experience. If you want to get into trucking Im sure theres decent work if you can get dedicated routes for smaller companies or stuff like that (you can make some real bank if youre an owner operator of your own truck) but all those large truck companies that promise to get you your liscense are extremely predatory and prey on newbies. Ive gotten like 4 or so class action lawsuit payouts since I got out of the company that hired me (nothing more than 100 dollars though) and personally the experience has tainted the whole career for me so Im in no hurry to try and get behind the wheel again...

[@seraph644]

If Miriam was punished for opposing Moses's marriage to an Ethiopian woman, it sounds like God is canonically pro-interracial marriage 🤔

[@LexYeen]

I think you might be on to something here.

[@millertheory7935]

Or she was punished for questioning Moses’ authority, not his sins.

[@Collin-o1f]

Moses had no option, he married in an isolated area

[@Gloomdrake]

@@Collin-o1fno, because the Bible is very pro-calling out authority if the authority in question is in conflict with god

[@anastasiacaron6631]

That was my first thought. Rare YHWH win!!!

[@westcoast1155]

I mentioned in the comments of part 1 that I'd gone to free Friday dinners at a 12 tribes compound when I was working at a farm in north San Diego county. Part 2 is casting a sinister light on stuff I hadn't even considered like *where were the kids* at these dinners? Dinner wasn't exactly late (6pm) and there were enough children for them to have a whole big classroom set aside for "teaching" them but the whole time I was there I never saw a single child....

[@Dogherder22]

Where was this?

[@cathy2earth]

thats wierd cus the kids were ALWAYS at Friday night dinner

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

​@@cathy2earth I see the exalted ones have found the podcast.

[@matthollywood8060]

A close friend's older brother left the 12 Tribes. I spent some time with the guy (we actually went to see the band The Cult together, hahaha) and he is very messed up. He spent about 15 years in and basically knows nothing about existing outside the group. It's pretty awful.

[@tauronmitronion377]

I spent the first 20-odd years of my life an evangelical Christian. Not in a cult - I wouldn't even quite call it fundamentalist - but still, my gosh, that quote about the first cup of coffee is so poignant to me. High-control religion explicitly tells people, in so many words, that they cannot own themselves, that their only meaning in life is to worship God. The freedom I now have over my own life - I hope every day I continue to enjoy it and value it like that guy drinking the first cup of coffee.

[@DeniseHousewright]

Many Protestant churches have cafes and coffee shops….very culty shit

[@DeniseHousewright]

PS …inside their churches

[@nataschavisser573]

Growing up in a protestant, white majorty church in 1990s South Africa, I have only heard one sermon on the Moses /Ethiopian woman story and it was used as an indictment against racism: God punished Miriam's racism by leprosy = we should not be racist and marrying black peole are OK. That this story could be used by people propagating the myth of Ham is absolutely wild to me. What race did this guy think the Ethiopian woman was?

[@wiskasIO]

Thanks coolZone Media for uploading these gems to YT, I've been listening for more than 2 years now on Stitcher before they just closed shop recently.. It great to have this great podcast accessible for the rest of us.

[@platedlizard]

33:00 this story is almost identical to what Jessi Hildebrant said their aunt did to them on todays (Sept 7, 2023) Mormon Stories livestream. The keeping her from her family, starving her, making her “confess” stuff she never did, accusing her of sexual addiction in great and disturbing detail etc. for context, said aunt Jodi, was recently arrested for having two starving children tied up in her home. This woman was one of the most highly recommended therapists by the LDS church. Weird how little changes between abusive groups/people

[@theformerastronomer]

Is that the therapist associated with the Ruby Franke story? Horrific stuff

[@mxpants4884]

​@@theformerastronomerYup, that one.

[@dinosaysrawr]

It's fascinating that abusive authoritarian types overwhelmingly share the same basic playbook, seemingly by pure instinct.

[@reis5011]

through this whole story i kept thinking just how much they seem like mormons, it's almost plagiarism very surprised there was no polygamy tho

[@redjirachi1]

Jean Spriggs is a reminder that not all abusers were themselves victims of abuse. Some abusers are just assholes for no reason and sometimes there's just no way to predict someone will become evil

[@Colonel_Bat_Guano]

Meh, you weren't there for his childhood

[@derwaldjunge]

I’m German and I remember the news about the Twelve Tribes here. Another aspect to the story is that homeschooling is illegal in Germany.

[@TheWinterscoming]

59:51 Ban religious exemptions for school curriculum. Require State schooling or equivalent standards for every child. Require standard checkups for children and make them free.

[@dinosaysrawr]

And, at the exact same time, schools need to do a lot more to accommodate disabled and chronically-ill students and unconventional learners.

[@zachthompson9976]

Our schools need SO MUCH. State of education in US is so very very sad😢

[@platedlizard]

MySpace Tom is truly the platonic ideal of an ultra wealthy man

[@nf1nk]

Be Jim Davis. Nobody cares about whatever he thinks because he won't tell you. Garfield is fine.

[@MagicalSkyWizard]

I’ve heard general warnings about this cult in my search for communes in BC but I never knew the extent to how bad they actually are. The fact that they have 3 separate compounds in my province of BC really, really, pisses me off. Barely anyone knows that they run the Yellow Deli in chilliwack. I cannot believe they’re allowed to operate unopposed with barely any public awareness. The unpaid and child labour alone should be enough to shut them down, but the fact that it’s just the tip of the iceberg…

[@j.afro775]

East Ridge resident here 🤙 There were rumors about the UTC Yellow Deli, but I never could have known. I had even heard of the Twelve Tribes and knew they were far gone. But I never ever knew they were the Yellow Deli guys. It's kind of fucking gross, you know?

[@cathy2earth]

The first one in Canada was in Winnipeg and they have done alot of coverage.

[@youmukonpaku3168]

the Yellow Deli in Kingston, Ontario is another one nobody realizes. Saw it when I was at Queen's, glad I caught a weird vibe and never went there.

[@mikemarkuson]

I was in the Twelve Tribes for about 12 years. We left around 2010. If you have questions ask.

[@johannageisel5390]

They raised the question of the internal organisation and who enforces the rules. Can you give us insight into that?

[@mikemarkuson]

@@johannageisel5390 Everything you do in there is controlled. The Elders control it all. The Elders have other leaders above them until you reach the top!

[@garin4364]

Absolutely insane people use it to justify bigotry of any kind, but the Ham story in the bible is way more messed up in context. "There are two possible interpretations concerning Gen. 9:21-23 that may be derived from Lev. 20:11. First, having sexual intercourse with someone is equated to uncovering their nakedness (this does not mean that every instance of uncovering nakedness suggests sexual intercourse). Therefore, it is possible that Ham uncovering Noah’s nakedness means that he had sex with his father. However, it is also noteworthy that having sexual intercourse with one’s mother (i.e., father’s wife) is considered uncovering the father’s nakedness (as opposed to the mother’s nakedness). Accordingly, it is possible that Ham uncovering Noah’s nakedness means that he had sex with his mother (Noah’s wife), who was likely in the tent with Noah at the time." The Bible folks. Fun stuff.

[@dinosaysrawr]

You know, for kids!

[@piros100]

at 19:50 Robert mentions a couple naming their child Shoah, I assume that's the spelling of the name based on how he tries to pronounce it. If I'm right, that's really fucked up, because that's the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.

[@omgkthxbi]

The locking the kids up until they make up bullshit to confess to reminds me of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt and all that shit in the news (the 8 Passengers lady and her Rasputin-like friend)

[@dinosaysrawr]

Reminds me of the Satanic Panic, when kids were aggressively interrogated and manipulated into confirming that they'd been sexually abused and subjected to bizarre rituals by Satanists.

[@stacyforsythe5738]

So wait, the dude's favorite story is about God instantaneously punishing Moses' siblings for *objecting to Moses' interracial marriage*, and somehow he gets "we should be super racist" out of that?

[@rainhartwenkler8408]

Dont fall for foreign flesh is what Ezra/Nehemiah has to say about this. Kind after kind! No mixing

[@Islandswamp]

I live in Vermont. I’ve been to Island Pond once or maybe twice. It’s fairly far out of the way from where I’ve always lived. I knew this cult had done some bad stuff, but WOW they are worse than I expected

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

'1,000 points of light' has a much darker connotation after learning about all these cults

[@BenHyle]

Cham would be more of a Hebrew spelling, and it's pronounced Ham, but very throaty, like you're clearing your throat.

[@idrisa7909]

IMO that thing about being "against a single world government" does come off as an antisemitism red flag

[@jessaminehaak8253]

The whole story about how they made their money in the construction business is almost exactly the same way that the FLDS made their money through the slave labour of young men in the cult (also through construction). I guess when you have a surplus of young men and a traditional-facing look at how life is supposed to work, unpaid manual labour comes to mind fairly often.

[@LexYeen]

I knew I wanted to be angry at something in the world today.

[@agentorange81]

Ikr , one gets in habit of it these days , almost expected lol

[@olivermaddox555]

Used to visit Mate Factor in Manitou a bunch as a teen, always had strange vibes there. So sorry my money went to supporting such horribleness.

[@syl3924]

2:58 tbf, George R.R. Martin still kind of does some stuff, he did contribute to quite a bit of the background lore and story of Elden Ring, as far as I know

[@hexlart8481]

As sophie said, he writes anything except the end of Ice and Fire.

[@gapsule2326]

​@@hexlart8481he probably wrote the last book into his will... When the lawyer reads it out itll be like a thousand pages and actually be the last book. Thus completing the ultimate troll.

[@cathy2earth]

MOst kids born in to 12 Tribes leave. Most do not stay which is why there numbers are not increasing

[@LibertyMonk]

The easiest way to "fix this" and make cults (and abusive relationships in general) a lot tougher to form, is to actually have a no questions asked safety net so being broke as hell doesn't make you susceptible to think kind of exploitation, and having no money or connections doesn't make it impossible to leave. Violent intervention is going to cause violence sometimes, and only even does anything well after suffering has happened.

[@Tsumami__]

I think for many cult leaders the money is actually a secondary motivator. Control over one’s own private little world is more of an intoxicant than even wealth is.

[@HyenaDandy]

FWIW: Adam's punishment is considered to be "Having to work." Like, he used to be able to just get food wherever because he was in Eden, now he has to be a farmer.

[@discountovid8325]

They are very much in the intellect/head knowledge rather than being spiritual. So instead growing spiritually, they just get better at following rules. And as desiccated as they were when I left in 1999 I can't imagine what it is like now.

[@jack-a-lopium]

The funny thing about the Mark of Ham, is that a lot of people bring it up to criticise the LDS Church, like saying you are de-legitimised because your Church acknowledges the Mark of Ham. But it's from mainstream Christianity... it's in EVERY form of Christianity, so if it's used to de-legitimise one, then it should logically de-legitimise every other.

[@theMMAdhatter]

5:40 This is the second mention of People's Temple, and I just feel the need to point out that, while it's possible Jones had humanitarian motivation for his actions (at least at first), it's equally likely he saw disenfranchised black people as an easily exploitable target. Ultimately, the fact that his actions disproportionately impacted black people is something that deserves to be acknowledged, I think. And about calling Jonestown a "suicide" in part one, most people now agree it was more a mass murder; the "choice" was made under duress, some were forcibly injected with cyanide, etc. It's a shift in perspective and nomenclature that has probably occurred since this episode aired, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

[@franciselrojo2922]

Adam's punishment is farming.

[@atlantismanic]

go sophie

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

I'm so grateful I was raised by rural Oregon Presbyterians who were so low key. Hearing this stuff makes me so sad and angry. I think my biggest problem with religion is how small petty and mean spirited 'god' is in their minds.

[@faarsight]

No Adams punishment is supposed to be "having to put up with women" and "toiling in the soil" for food and sustenance. (Which women also have to do)

[@sfbcvp]

I see Robert is playing Glitch: A DnD Adventure. Don't know how soothing that is ha ha

[@ukyoize]

USA needs "freedom from religeon" instead of "freedom of religeon"

[@noxthemc7717]

Tell that to the far right

[@darkenedvision4709]

I agree, but this virus known as religion starts with children and must be dealt with there. Thankfully in this group, most children that grow up there end up leaving. I lived there for about 9 years.

[@Problematist]

The german government was much better at handling the situation in regards to getting children away from them after the journalist uncovered the abuse in 2013. Although, half of them were quickly given back and for a while the journalist was even charged with infringing their privacy but the charge was later dropped. Only a few members of the cult were arrested. In 2017 the remaining members moved to the Czech Republic and in 2021 even kidnapped one of the children from their foster parents. Apparently they already had issues with the law in 2003 due to refusing compulsory schooling. They were fined 130k, but never paid any of it. Some of the fathers were arrested for 6 weeks to "force" them to pay. At least once the state forced the children into public schools. A year later it escalated to a point they actually allowed home schooling only for this cult under supervision of the bavarian minister of culture. They ended up getting their own school approved from 2006 to 2013. Bavaria really is not beating the Texas of Germany allegations.

[@tylerfun3158]

The find money and disappear forever gambit is the only choice for the sane person.

[@justjukka]

If you guys become rich, please don’t abandon us. 🥺

[@hpalpha7323]

total insanity

[@BeastNationXIV]

What's firsting my second for my part twoooooos? 😁

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Oh, _firsting_ ...

[@Symphonia16]

55:21 what was that bonkers? Sounded like an ai voice

[@avengercannon]

Atun Shei Films would enjoy this

[@RichBensen]

In British slang, "pissed" means drunk. Just sayin'.

[@LadyKiralin]

Adam´s punishment is to provide food by the sweat of his brow, as in hard phyiscaI work to be worthy of food

[@casspurp]

You pronounced "Cham" according to Anglo/English which is why it seems odd. The name is "Kham" with a glottal stop typical of Arabic or Hebrew. Think, "l'chaim," not "cheeseburger." The "Ham" spelling is Anglicized and removes the "ethnic" sound to the name.

[@stacyforsythe5738]

Adam was cursed with labor. So the equivalent to "women shouldn't use painkillers during childbirth" would be something like "Men shouldn't use pain relief for work-related strain or injury." I don't think I've ever heard that one, though. And while the Adam and Eve story has absolutely been used in support of misogyny, even the guy who introduced the idea of "Women are all kind of sus because Eve sinned first" (Paul in the New Testament) also insisted that, theologically speaking, it was *Adam* as prototype human (remember, even Eve was made from Adam according to the story) whose sin broke the world. That's why Jesus came as a dude and not a lady -- it was fitting that a second Adam fix what the first one had broken. (We Catholics like to point out that, while Eve's sin didn't have such far-reaching effects and so didn't need such a fix, God nevertheless bookended things by having Jesus' Incarnation hinge on the prior faithful obedience of a woman, His mother Mary, just as Adam's world-breaking sin had been preceded and abetted by Eve's lesser one. And where the first time around, Eve was human because she was made from the flesh of Adam, the second time around, "Adam" (Jesus) took his fleshy humanity from his "Eve," his mother.)

[@septegram]

The "ch" in "Cham" is probably pronounced like the German, which is fairly close to an "h."

[@raven_g6667]

What was Adam's punishment for eating the apple? Having to listen to his nagging wife, eh? Eeeh? I'm here all weekend folks.

[@agentorange81]

Touche

[@agentorange81]

Robert Evans: Thats awesome putting a book that i honestly would have to put extreme effort into writing a books worth, up for free and admirable of you that being said , Go to hell 😂

[@martinvtodd9502]

The people that don't get forgiven when they repent are not only black as this claims, but people like me and I am white, I was there and tried to repent and they sent me away from My wife, and the church and when I brought up the fact that that violates Luke 17 verse 4 that says.... "If a brother sins seven times a day and comes back saying I repent you shall forgive them." And they still rejected me, but to me there is some reassurance since Christ said if one doesn't forgive then they won't be forgiven either.

[@chrisplaysdrums09]

Please say Chattanooga correctly.

[@LexYeen]

There is no correct way, only the local way and the international way.

[@Daedalus117]

No

[@gapsule2326]

The only correct way is to not say it ever

[@martinvtodd9502]

The 12 tribes truly ain't all that bad I've been there, the women are taught to be very submissive to their husbands although when I was there my ex-wife didn't have to be submissive to me they split us apart but can you imagine a world for men if women were that submissive.

[@Eurobunker]

Someone here in this podcast did not read their bible thoroughly. @7:30 **Eve** - Sin in the garden has been: Falling for to satan's deceit for the forbidden fruit (rebellion against god's command) - Punishment: plentiful births (no birth control!) under great pain **Adam** - Sin in the garden: not ruling thoroughly over his wife (rebellion against god's command) - Punishment: acre being cursed. Working hard by the sweat of his eyebrows Read your bibles, and visit the tribes. End times is approaching. Yellow deli ppl are sweet and the sandwiches are heavenly well made!!

[@cathy2earth]

yet u are not living with them??????????????

[@cathy2earth]

they follow Acts

[@HarryDirtay]

EnD tImEs R pRoAcH'n😂

[@jumbo4billion]

At the time of writing Satan didn't exist as we think if "him" now. The walking snake was a satan, not the Satan

[@shaurmiath6719]

Go live with the tribes if they're so great, then. Give up all your worldly possessions and live in quiet, pleasure-free obedience. Your sanctimonious ranting will not be missed.