Behringer Wing | Dante Network Expansion Card - 64x64 Audinate Brooklyn 2 Upgrade

[@DavidMyers0]

Been waiting on this card forever but it's hard not to think it's a little late at this point for the customers that would have upgraded from an X32 but needed Dante.

[@davidvega1087]

About Time Behringer

[@j_allen0217]

Great video. What stagebox(es) would we be able to use to achieve our 64 physical inputs?

[@DcSoundOp]

With Dante in this console, it's not the best option for connecting stageboxes, although you could. Many folks will continue to use the AES-50 stage boxes designed to work with this console, while using the Dante card to accept inputs and send outputs from to and from networked gear. That can be from playback devices & computers, other mixers or individual Dante equipped gear like wireless mics, standalone preamps, recorders and even speakers. Any Dante enabled device can be added to your network and patched to this card, but remember that patching the audio path through Dante does not give you control of features like Gain, Phantom power, HPF etc. from this console.

[@randymusik]

@@DcSoundOp Good info thanks. I think the gain control comes from the stagebox I'm using the X32 as my stagebox and of course I have control then through the Edit software.

[@AVMAN2120]

General Dante Question: is there a free or paid application for PC/Mac that gives you visual metering of the audio on the network? It would be handy to visualize that the audio is indeed passing on the network? This way you can verify visually what audio is transmitting or being sent to/from devices.

[@DcSoundOp]

You can see that audio is passing in Dante Controller, which is free. If you want detailed metering you could use DVS (virtual soundcard which has a small license fee) to bring channels into any software you like. Thanks for the great question.

[@AVMAN2120]

@@DcSoundOp I've used DVS on several occasions, it's very handy. just was wondering if you had run across and app like I had described. It would be awesome if someone could create an app that works like the old analog fox and hound audio sniffers but in the digital network Dante environment.

[@DcSoundOp]

Have you seen these from Nixer? www.nixerproaudio.com/Products/PDDante/pddante.php

[@AVMAN2120]

@@DcSoundOp Thanks for sharing that tool! I had not heard of it.

[@lilbshull]

Check out VoiceMeeter.

[@T-H-X]

How can i Set up the Output level from Wing/Dante to my daw?

[@DcSoundOp]

There is no level control in Dante, but depending on your situation there are other ways to bring the level up either before entering the DAW or after. I keep a few subgroups routed from the Wing to the Dante card all the time for different things like streaming or VOIP calls or just recording voice-overs. In those cases, I use the mixer to EQ, process dynamics and make sure the level going out is appropriate & that is what is sent to the computer over Dante. So basically, if you use the mixer as a mixer, there are endless way to adjust sends.... if you're only using it as an interface, you'll want to bring the level up in your DAW after recording (assuming your gain is set correctly throughout the signal chain and you are actually recording a reasonable level).

[@advanceknowledge3835]

I like the video, but I am not sure what kind of console is compability with dante soundcard, please?

[@DcSoundOp]

This video is about the Behringer Wing console and the specific Dante card they made for it. Many of the most popular consoles on the market have their own Dante cards and options for getting networked audio happening. Do you already own a console or other dante gear, or are you building a new system? All the best.

[@beethewizard]

Are you familiar with connecting a Behringer Wing to a Behringer X32 Producer? I would appreciate any tips and tricks on a few ways to use them together.

[@DcSoundOp]

I haven't had an X32 to use at the same time as the Wing myself personally yet. I know there are folks out there doing a lot with the two consoles in tandem, but personally I haven't done it. Hopefully someone else here with a Wing & X32 will be able to chime in and help. Thanks for the message Bee!

[@beethewizard]

@@DcSoundOp Anytime, I appreciate your time and courtesy my friend.

[@MGort-bb8op]

@@beethewizard There are multiple ways. Dante is one of them. But I would connect them just through aes50. For example: Connect X32 Aes50A to Wing Aes50C. On x32 go to Routing, and patch all 48 inputs from Aes50A-in to the channels. Also patch all local xlr and aux inputs of the x32 to Aes50A-out and go to setup, headamp settings, and select Aes50A headamp control (instead of local). On the Wing its the same. Patch all Aes50C-in to your sources and all your xlr/aux inputs (from a stagebox etc) to Aes50C-out. This way the X32 will function as a stagebox for the Wing and a seperate mixing console the same time. It will receive 48 channels of the wing and use them for mixing. (Monitors, broadcast, etc).

[@beethewizard]

@@MGort-bb8op Thank you so much M. Gore I truly appreciate the information it is very much helpful.

[@randymusik]

Plugging in an AES50 cable on A would instantly give your Wing 8 additional outs and if you put cables from X32 outs to Wing In then you can plug instruments into X32 and route them to your Wing

[@mixinglane]

Would it be possible to remove the Audinate Brooklyn II from the connector on the external extension card and put it into the internal extension card slot?

[@DcSoundOp]

It is possible, there’s a short video in the member’s area here on the channel about doing that with the Wing we have here 👍🏼

[@PsykopathicManiac]

The church I work with currently has the M32, looking into a WING. But we have started doing a lot of live streams because of COVID. Would it be possible (Over Dante) to have signals from our AES50 stageboxes go to BOTH the WING for a FOH mix, and then to the M32 for a completely separate mix for broadcast/livestream?

[@DcSoundOp]

I don't have any experience setting the two up myself, but I would imagine doing it over the AES50 would be better, since you would drop the head amp control converting to Dante to go between the consoles. Depending on how many stage boxes you're using and the distances though, there may be a better answer. Does that make sense or did I make it more confusing?

[@PsykopathicManiac]

​@@DcSoundOp Nope! That makes total sense! Thanks for your response brother!

[@joshenang2405]

can i plug my midas Dl32 stagebox on a dante enabled switcher, and will it appear on the dante controller?????

[@DcSoundOp]

No absolutely not, that is an AES-50 Supermac signal & will not work with a normal switch or Dante.

[@documentingordinarythoughts]

Can you use this card as a send and return for fx plug-ins ? In like a daw or vst host ?

[@DcSoundOp]

Yes you can, I answered another user's question here about using it for efx inserts and you could certainly patch an AUX or other mix out and back in after processing in a few ways. What you do with the network & how you get Dante into your computer (there are hardware and software options), along with your choice of processing will all determine the total latency. Thanks for the great question.

[@thenamestudio]

Hi , i'm planning to add a dante card to a wing console , to use it with a waves bridge and a server one from waves and run waves plug ins . Have you ever use this set up before ? thanks in advance.

[@DcSoundOp]

Hey Jorge, I haven't used any of Waves bridge stuff with Dante yet myself. The Dante card has been a great addition to the Wing though, I'm looking forward to seeing how everyone plans to use them as they start to get out in the wild more. Keep in touch and let us know what you end up with & how it works out, it would be interesting to know!

[@rcottojr]

Hi. I'm new to the channel but not to Pro audio. We use Yamaha CL5 and QL5 for FOH with stage boxes and redundant Dante Network. Since the Pandemic we've using a X32 for streaming. Being 32 channels in the X32 the max amount it transmits or receive through Dante we acquired the WING. After a long wait, the Wing Dante Card. In your demo, yo use channels 1-2. I need the 64. In my setup all 64 are routed with Dante Control and the Wing displays it. Here's the predicament; to assign the Dante card channels to the Wing inputs it only allows 40. Is this a firmware or hardware limitation or I'm missing a setup or layout option?

[@DcSoundOp]

So the way it works is you have 48 input channels, which can be mono or stereo or configured for mid-side. If you used all stereo channels for instance, then you would need 96 sources. So once you configure the channels you need, then you can select the sources from any number of inputs depending on how you are working. Those sources can be from Dante, the local inputs, or from a stage-box connected to the AES50 ports. If you need to actively mix 64 mono signals in a 1 to 1 patch from a Dante network, then you'll need a console with a higher channel count than the wing. If some of your signals are actually stereo, then you might get it down to 48 total control channels and you'll be set. I hope that makes sense of how these types of consoles work with sources and channels being separate from one another. Thanks for the great question.

[@CarlsOpinion]

Hello! Unfamiliar with Dante. I would be interested to know how I could incorporate my P-16m monitors into this. Wing did not provide an Ultranet connection, and had to work around them into the system without having to purchase the Midas DP 48's for $400.00 each. ( I have 7 P-16m's). Obviously not ideal, since had to use output channels 33-48, on a 48 channel system. Went against one of the big reasons for the Ultranet (no output channels required). Anyone out there, can help me out with this?? Appreciate it. Thanks. Carl

[@DcSoundOp]

I'm not super familiar with the P-16m units myself, but this is what I found in a quick search. Would this help with your setup at all? - "WING does not have an Ultranet connection, but the last 16 streams of each AES50 port (33-48) are automatically converted to Ultranet and distributed by SD stage boxes and X32 mixers. So, if you want to route signals to your P16 mixers, assign the desired sources on WING to outputs 33-48 of the connected AES50 port. Those channels will automatically be routed to the peripheral’s Ultranet outputs. If sending Ultranet over AES50 to an X32 mixer, you must also select that X32’s incoming AES50 33-40 and 41-48 input channels as the 16 Ultranet outputs"

[@ollitrop46]

@@DcSoundOp Correct! Just connect a P16-D to the ultranet port of your stage box which will provide power and a total of 16 channels and/or sub-groups to your seven P16-m's. You will not waste any channel as you will route to OUTPUTS 33-48.

[@pedroguedesthebino]

Can remote control pre amp gain from a yamaha pre box for example?

[@DcSoundOp]

Not currently. I’m not sure if that’s in the works for the future or not, but thanks for the question!

[@bluesono]

I don't think so. Even not all of Yamaha console can't have that privileges. Yamaha has R-remote software. It is network based software.

[@bluesono]

This is what I think, Dante is so secured protocol. There'a space for individual vendors could put their own code, but it is whole lot better to do using regular TCP/IP. Something like web server. As I mentioned, Yamaha CL OS includes controls on RIO stagebox, but LS9 and M7CL don't have those functions. Even though MY series dante will do exact same thing as Dante should do. I think people still confuse these. Dante Firmware from Behringer will be just as is from Audinate. That's all I can think of. Official internal dante board from Behringer might not be real. Who's going to install? Music Tribe service center? How? Bring console? Ship it? Behringer might give up internal dante option and just go for WING Dante only.

[@frankydtg14]

Will there be a future video for Dante on wing? Currently have a dante card, but how can i use it to combine it with my AES50 and Dante network? From my understanding I can send all my AES50 inputs out to dante to be on my network and route that to my daw? And i can also send my Mainstage routing into dante network to go to wing and back? Am I wrong?

[@DcSoundOp]

Hi Fransisco, you're not wrong, you can absolutely use the Wing to route audio between the AES inputs and the Dante network. The real details you need to pay attention to are how you are clocking the Dante network. You'll probably want to use the Dante card in the Wing as your primary Dante clock, and then set the Wing to clock to that, not it's internal clock. Then be sure to connect the AES-50 on their A ports to establish the clock there. It can be done a ton of different ways though depending on your config and what you are trying to accomplish, so it's really hard to give any real instructions that will work for everyone.

[@frankydtg14]

@@DcSoundOp How would I clock it? As of now i have it clocked to internal 48khz if I am not mistaken.

[@Chaz_r]

Is it possible to use the usb as an audio interface as well as use Dante to record to a second computer with protools on it?

[@DcSoundOp]

Sure, as long as you have a DVS license on each computer you can access any Dante traffic you put on the network from the Wing & the wing can be a usb interface for a computer at the same time. Great question!

[@Chaz_r]

@@DcSoundOp wow! This is great news. Thank you

[@SoundSpeeding]

I don't like that we're forced to choose between SD Card / USB *or* DANTE, as I've love to be able to use all at once!!

[@DcSoundOp]

You don't have to give up any USB capability to use Dante.

[@SoundSpeeding]

@@DcSoundOp don't you have to swap out the USB card like with the X32 to use DANTE?

[@DcSoundOp]

If only there was a short 4 minute video somewhere that could show how this works.... 😂

[@CoriPAlexander]

With this new Dante Card, can you now record 64 channels to a DAW or is it still restricted to 48 channels to the DAW?

[@DcSoundOp]

The card provides 64x64 channel i/O from the console to your Dante network, how you get those into your DAW will depend on your hardware and software config. There are hardware and software options for getting the audio into a computer depending on you needs, but as an example, right now I have Studio One 5 setup with 64 tracks armed, using Dante Virtual Sound Card as my interface and a 1:1 patch from the Wing Card to DVS - from there I can patch channels, mixes or whatever else I want from the console to the Dante network and it shows up in the DAW. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[@jonmessenger5621]

@@DcSoundOp How is the latency and would you say this is as good as having Thunderbolt 3? Thank you for your time and have a nice day. Stay Safe and may God bless.... Jon

[@DcSoundOp]

Hi Jon, typical default latency for a Dante network is 1ms, but can vary depending on the hardware you are using. Virtual Sound Card (being software based) can be set to 4, 6 or 10ms - so if you're looking for low latency you'll want to look at a hardware option for whatever you are trying to do. The question is, what are you looking to accomplish with an audio network? Once you have a clear idea of where you need to get audio on and off the network and where the latency actually matters for you, it gets a lot easier to compare the options. Thanks for the question!

[@jonmessenger5621]

@@DcSoundOp Thank you for the reply and information. I deeply appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I still need to do a lot of research on Dante networking and latency. Thank you again and have a great day. Stay safe and may God bless.... Jon

[@lilbshull]

Have you seen any products that actually use StageConnect?

[@DcSoundOp]

I haven’t seen any yet. To be clear for everyone, the channel has some access to demo certain gear they have publicly announced, I don’t have any insider knowledge or info on future products or things in the works.

[@voutzify]

Thanks for quickly showing this. Currently waiting on my card, which I immediately ordered after it was announced on thomann. Wait time: 9-12 weeks left. I'm really disappointed by Behringer here. I needed this card more than half a year ago. Their communication with regards to availability/release date on the expansion cards has been absolutely abysmal. I need the MADI card as well, who knows when they'll be bothered to deliver on that promise. As the Dante expansion card is essentially a fancy adapter PCB for the brooklyn-II module - have you tried swapping this into the internal brooklyn-II slot? I would actually love to have my Dante module on the internal slot, and swapping the MADI or SD card out depending on live/studio use.

[@DcSoundOp]

Hi Jan, thanks for the message. I don't have any inside knowledge about production or schedules or anything to do with all of that. All I know is the entire industry has been dealing with delays this past year due to supply chain & logistical issues surrounding the global pandemic. I understand your frustration in needing accessories for your console, but many of the manufacturers I talk with have had projects shelved or on the back burner waiting on a single component to be available etc. It's a bummer, but I don't think anyone wants to keep their customers waiting on purpose for stuff like this. I haven't had time yet to disassemble the WING I've got right now & I'm not sure I will. I've been told you can't use just any Brooklyn II card in the internal slot & I'm inclined to believe them as I don't see what they would gain by not letting me do it with the card I have. Thanks for the message, if I get any more info to share about they cards or availability, you'll hear it here.

[@SpencerPowell]

How do you check and update the firmware of the DANTE card? Does it ship with out of date firmware?

[@DcSoundOp]

Dante controller has an update function built in for all of the Audinate chips. It alerts you whenever you have updates available and allows you to do them from there. Thanks for the question Spencer!

[@T-H-X]

there are only internal pci-r dante cards to optimize the latency again on the pc. is there also an external dante card that i can connect to the wing and get at least 32 channels in and out with lower latency than with the dante Audinate software? I only have a laptop, so I can't install a pci-r card.

[@DcSoundOp]

Yes, look at Focusrite’s Dante interfaces. They have every config you can probably think of in all sorts of channel counts. Assuming you have thunderbolt.

[@pealock]

How many flows are available? I’m assuming it is more than the X32 Dante card. Would love to be able to do multiple destinations without using multicast.

[@DcSoundOp]

It is a Brooklyn 2 from Audinate, so at 48k it is able to do 64x64 channels and 32x32 simultaneous flows. Scroll down for the full specs here : www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-brooklyn-ii

[@davidknight3233]

Can you run all 64 channels simultaneously with Dante?

[@DcSoundOp]

You can access all of the channels available when you add a card to this system, but it does not change the maximum number of processing channels you have to work with on the console itself.

[@jthunderbass1]

Can you do inserts from Dante?

[@DcSoundOp]

Yes, there are two ways to do external inserts from the Wing. One method is to use the Alt Input to create the insert & the other is to select the External FX at either one of the channel insert points (pre or post) and patch from there. Latency will depend on what you're doing with the network & if you are using hardware or software on the other end to get in and out of the processor etc. I'll probably do a video on this topic as soon as I have a chance to set up some examples and demos. Thanks for the great question!

[@jthunderbass1]

@@DcSoundOp You should do a video on it. I am asking becuase the way you do Waves plugins on an X32 is you have to patch the inputs into Superrack and then Superrack into the channel. Its a major flaw because you really need to be able to use the card as an insert instead of inline. The big problem is that you cannot use outboard plugins as inserts on sub groups.

[@brandoncrenshaw]

so is there still internal Dante networking?

[@DcSoundOp]

I don't have any info on it yet. As soon as I hear more, you'll know about it.

[@oluwatosinbabatunde9319]

Great view. Can you do a video to give us the best professional audio settings for a church livestream

[@DcSoundOp]

That's a big question to answer in the comments of a video. Is there an issue you are struggling with specifically or a piece of gear that is giving you trouble? Let us know more about what you are having trouble with, what issues you need help with & I'm sure we can get things sounding better. Thanks for the great question Oluwatosin.

[@oluwatosinbabatunde9319]

@@DcSoundOp We just need to know what settings for preaching and worship as we hear most of the largest churches around today seem to have the same sound setting which is similar to yours. Thanks

[@lilbshull]

Do you have any information about the internal card option?

[@DcSoundOp]

Not yet. As soon as I do you’ll hear about it.

[@Henock.10]

my million dollar question is do i need it? or does asking if i need it answer the question? lol

[@DcSoundOp]

If you’re not already working with Dante or moving in that direction for a specific reason, then you probably don’t need it right now.

[@Henock.10]

@@DcSoundOp thank you so much. I'm fairly new but desperate to learn more. What about a stage box? Does it enhance sound quality directly or indirectly?

[@DcSoundOp]

Hey, happy to help. A stagebox is another thing you should be buying to fit a specific purpose (you should be thinking of all gear this way really). So if your Wing has enough inputs and outputs as is, the stagebox isn't going to do you much good. If you need more inputs and outputs, especially at a distance from the console (like on stage) then we can figure out if you want them all in one place on a big stage-box, or if a few smaller ones that you can spread around the stage would fit your needs better. If all you are after is a better sound for something though, the Wing has AES/EBU on the back too, which is two channels of digital audio in or out. With that you can connect up all sorts of fancy mic pres or other gear with digital outputs and bypass all of the Wing preamps etc. This is a popular thing to do in a studio setting for sure, but also happens in live work. The network card from this video solves a whole bunch of other problems that I would put into the logistics category rather than dealing with sound. So, if you have a need to send audio to and from a number of places in your building, or if you need to do multiple splits of signals to other systems for recording or broadcast, a network would be the tool. Dante is one flavor of audio networks that is very popular at the moment, due to it's ability to use off the shelf network gear and operate along side other network traffic on existing networks. But that's a bigger conversation. Let me know if you're stuck with anything else or if what I said here needs more explanation. All the best.