Belegar's Bugman Rangers

[@pandalover900]

Alternate title: "Belegar edges for half an hour while rangers unload on twin sisters"

[@anonylemon9823]

AAAAAAUUUUUUUU I’M GROOOOOOODGIIIIIIIIIIING

[@dearberlin]

Very funny!

[@MandoMTL]

Giggidy.

[@hdawglion718]

This comment is goin in the book and you better dye your hair red for you forsake the ancestors.

[@hdawglion718]

This comment is goin in the book and you better dye your hair red for you forsake the ancestors.

[@Mysterialic]

"Hmm, the ground is spitting bolts at my army. Eh, must've been the wind."

[@BIGmlems]

Skyrim sneak lol

[@a0point0of0view1]

The army could benefit with the addition of even just a single runesmith, both for sharpen weapons and ward breaker, it would give an extra 10-20% extra damage depending on if the unit being targetted have missle resist which can be very helpful against certain single entities or legendary lords

[@halwakka504]

Or one of each hero; engineers also boost the strength of missile units.

[@shadowblade5656]

@@halwakka504 it's got an engineer, he used him to replenish ammo a few times, that was the one getting wrecked towards the end that had to back off.

[@theStamax]

Yeah it would be most certainly be worth the slot. Always annoying to me when sent in doomstacks are just those few things off from perfection (or a lot of things off like the gunline vcoast stack that was shown recently)

[@sympunny8636]

The issue with adding a runesmith, is that they're squishy, slow and have no way to add stalk. So they could get hunted down very easily, unless you withdrew them from the map quite early on, which is not exactly ideal, not sure it's worth taking out a bugmans ranger for a more expensive unit capped hero. If you really wanted the negative missile resist, it applies to the province, so the hero could tag along behind the army. However, probably not worthwhile.

[@NanayaShikiVN]

@@sympunny8636 Dwarves can craft Prospector’s Mail that gives both stalk and snipe for 90 oathgolds each.

[@krankarvolund7771]

"I think they know we're here" I mean, even with snipe, they've got to notice that several of their units had been wiped out over there XD

[@ericjade]

😆

[@jeffvella9765]

-Legend: "The best lord in the game!!!" -Legend: "Look at her resistances, we should avoid her." -BUGMAN: "BUT I am the best Archer in both games" (BUGMAN proceeds to kill her like it was nothing.) -BUGMAN: "Where is she???"

[@snakenerdgamer1]

"I don't think Belegar can handle this" , your going to a book Legend :).

[@cygnusx-1256]

"you chop down this tree, then you can leave" haha that was hilarious

[@icthulu]

After watching this, I think you need to add a 4th category for your reviews, fun or tedious. As a way to highlight a stack that you want to run that compensates for difficult to create.

[@Loj84]

One thing to note is that this army is not rated well in autoresolve. That does mean you’ll have to fight more battles manually, but it also means you’ll face less force overall. This couldn’t handle 4 full stacks, but the AI will never send 4 full stacks at it, so it doesn’t really matter.

[@FakosWolf]

Every LL has siege attacker now, except for Gotrek.

[@anghDescartes]

This is actually very viable stack, but requires belegar and all ghost lords, one guardian, one giving stalking, and runesmith to destroy the blob, and splitting Bugmans rangers in 3 groups (if one is detected, other2 kills pursuers). The point is, shooting at single units is a waste - shooting at all units blobbed on Belegar is golden - they wont miss, they don't risk, it is a carnage. And invisible grudge thrower can be as well great here.

[@riggze]

Yesss keep them coming. Armies that are ideal and special for certain factions but not necessarily an insane doom stack

[@wclinton93]

I really liked the application of the new rating system in this vid; this army really demonstrates its strengths.

[@jessep3571]

Legend, you've probably been told before but you can expand the abilties bar on the character card and it makes it a lot easier to read and search for things.

[@ErrorGameManiac]

how does one do that?

[@magnaig]

@@ErrorGameManiac Space bar during battle

[@chisosdegondra6693]

@@ErrorGameManiac click the little plus icon next to the word abilities on the unit card

[@jessep3571]

@@ErrorGameManiac there's a little plus sign next to where it says abilities. Click it and it makes a list instead of just icons.

[@Garret007]

@@jessep3571 very useful advice, many thanks for that guys :D

[@NemeTheLagger]

Fun fact: for some reason you can get dwarf banners as Warriors of Chaos

[@krankarvolund7771]

I also looted dwarves's runes with pretty much any army, I think it's because all magical items can be mixed now ^^

[@404Dannyboy]

CA been working on chaos dwaves for too long

[@SittingOnEdgeman]

That's interesting. Seems to imply Chaos Dwarves may be coming as a sub-faction of Warriors of Chaos, potentially? Or maybe that there will be a Chaos Dwarf "champion" a la Valkia, Festus, and the crew.

[@justjelmer6654]

@@SittingOnEdgeman nah probably not. Just a buggy mess like a lot of other stuff in the game

[@xiii0722]

and I wonder why cathay can get high elf bows since the release of chaos realms, even though they don't have a single ranged hero / general?? (I don't count the magistrate on a lantern as one btw )

[@Karina-winsmore]

Its grudgin time!

[@harrower3365]

My favorite part was when Legend said that, then grudged all over them.

[@Ciclopotis]

@@harrower3365 The real Grudge Thrower

[@patrickdaly1088]

When I first saw the title my brain derped and thought "Be'lakor's Bugman Rangers" and for a minute there I was really excited

[@Nozdormu1982]

Even in warhammer 2, bugman ranger stacks were really strong. Tho I feel Belegar benefits from having all 4 ethereal heroes in his army and ideally one more Engineer. At least that is what I used to run with Belegar in warhammer 2.

[@svenbrede6151]

Joke's on you, this is Warhammer 3 and you can save Thorek's great axe thane. That's 5 ethereal heroes once you can recruit a thane xD

[@Nozdormu1982]

@@svenbrede6151 nice :D. Not sure belegar needs more then 4 tho. Even with those 4 + 1 master engineer it was already one of the best auto resolve armies I had seen thus far :D.

[@Garret007]

@@svenbrede6151 omg, didn't think of that yet. thanks for that :D

[@Loj84]

I’m not sure 2 engineers is worthwhile anymore. It used to be great, but the buffs don’t stack anymore. Didn’t like that change personally.

[@Nozdormu1982]

@@Loj84 damn you CA.

[@Valivali94]

Kek dwarfs sneaking up on wood elves is so wonderfully lore unfriendly.

[@4f52]

In WH2 I started a Belegar campaign focusing in getting this Doomstack, but by the time I recruited the Bugmen, I was already running a five men Doomstack (Belegar + His 4 Ancestor Heroes), the ethereal 75% physical Resistance coupled with the Master Runes from Dwarf crafting basically made most of the invisible Bugmen Doomstack irrelevant lol

[@sorlock7778]

I like the New Rating system, any chance you could make a video in the future giving a breakdown on what each category entails and what makes things practical vs impractical, Strong vs Weak, and I know this should be self explanatory but also Ease of Use. I would love to see you showcase some of the Warhammer 3 Doomstacks that you previously rated using the old system and compared them to each other using the new rating system.

[@gavril1436]

I would be very interested in a caparison of previous doomstacks with the new system as well.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Saving Your Doomstack videos are my favorite.

[@goldone01]

I really like the new rating system. Makes the review so much more insightful! I'd love to have you give all the three elements number scores from maybe 1-5 but either way it's great!

[@Crusher487]

If I've understood dwarf banners correctly, it says non-character unit just to clarify which abilities work with non-characters and which do not. Those dwarf banners didn't have any perks for character units but there are some that have both. Why banners with no perks for character units can be equipped on characters, I do not know (lazy coding), but I don't think equipping them gives those non-character bonuses to characters. It's not waste, but instead a show of strength. Could be wrong but doubt that.

[@wernerheisenberg5128]

No dwarf special banners could be equipped on characters in II. It's just a bug

[@WarPigstheHun]

If you put them in "C" or "V" formation, they'll kill faster because they're shooting at the less armored flanks. It also confuses the AI if you're spotted. I always lock group, and spin them around the enemy.

[@thomaskunz3089]

when the mountain starts speaking khuzdul...

[@RexorInvicta]

I've been rolling this with rangers for about 50 turns. It seems that the AI sort of knows that your units are there, because they always send a few fast movers towards your shooting position. It's extremely annoying when cavalry just goes straight for your invisible units and runs past Belegar.

[@alirezarezaei2976]

That happened to me too and let me assure you AI always know where you are I had this army combination myself and i ran around the map for 200 turns and every time i wanted to make the enemy surround my hero stack so my rangers could shower them with their arrows from afar in the safe distance while sniping they always surround my heroes and blob around but as soon as my first arrow shoots they immediately dispatch some fast movers to my rangers and i had no choice but to retreat to a longer distance till they give up and again commit Snipe attribute never fully works in this game they always know where you are Even when i put some runs on top of my organ gun to make it sniper still enemy send some troops at my organ gun's position the moment it starts dealing damage to them This happened to me a lot

[@RexorInvicta]

@@alirezarezaei2976 Wow even with artillery that has snipe huh... Well that's a shame :( hope they fix it,

[@Loj84]

That was my exact experience trying to use this army in WH2. On paper it’s fantastic, but when the AI just rushes straight for you anyway, it doesn’t work.

[@rumplstiltztinkerstein]

This is a good "Rating your disaster Battle"

[@felipewerner6670]

Belegar bugman rangers doomstack is old as walking foward....

[@AggressiveLemur]

Holy shit that gold per turn!

[@senshibat8920]

Doom is when the ales gone dry. my dawi

[@chance4513]

Did they change the amount of benefits Belegar gives to rangers in the transition to Warhammer 3? I thought I remembered his unique skill path being nearly all ranger or missile unit themed buffs. I wanted to start up my 1st Belegar campaign in 3 the other day, but when I looked at his skill tree it seemed different, weaker. It kind of put me off what with all of the other new factions there are to try out. It might just be my memory, though, but Belegar and his ranger-themed army made for my favorite Dwarf campaign in 2, especially with the difficulty that the race to Eight-Peaks brought on Legendary.

[@danielalvarezberdugo1622]

Reminds me of the crapstack I was using for my Oxyotl campaign. Main differences are that chameleon skinks have shorter range but 360º capability and also poison which helps keeping the enemies at bay. Also the special ammo Oxyotl provides is very powerful. As pointed out, when defending it's important to have a visible unit (if possible fast or very durable) to keep the enemy attention

[@scarletcroc3821]

Pretty sure it says non character because it doesn’t affect characters. Lords and heroes don’t get 10% ward save but normal units do, so putting the banners on characters is pretty much a waste

[@Garret007]

uh, just wanna say I go the other non-character rune that gives 15% physical prots in my last campaign. and it worked on my lord.

[@IlHansenIl]

Does Legend not know that all Legendary lords have siege attacker now?

[@keithemerson7662]

Im sure he knows about it, but remembering every detail, especially little changes like that, is hard. So I'm going to need you to get all the way off his back.

[@jimmyferrell4580]

I usually run an extra master engineer in this type of army as well just to give you enough ammo to take out multiple armys.

[@Chughesy]

Having used this doom stack before, somehow clan skryre can see your sniping units and nuke it anyway which is kinda lame

[@chrisneuhofel9297]

Yea I noyiced that also in wh3, they nuke me while stalking every fight, so I usually sacrifice one unit by running them in to waste his nuke, couldnt figure out how else to fight those

[@jufavafra]

This army is invencible in sieges

[@xtrasquish]

This was my army - It could probably do with another 1-2 master engineers, but I saw this opportunity to get a couple of stacks together. I don't think it needs a runesmith, as the buff to missile damage runesmiths give is less than a master engineer.

[@Loj84]

You shouldn’t be comparing it to an engineer. The buff to the missile damage of all of the rangers is worth more than having one additional ranger, which is what matters. And runesmiths are very easy to get.

[@alirezarezaei2976]

Despite the fact that dwarfs magic is weaker than the others you always should have 2-3 rune smiths in your armies I never get it when i see players don't put them in their armies in later stages of the campaign They are so easy to increase cap and so so so so useful especially if you gang them(3 or more)in an army and equip them with proper items For example, in this battle, if he had 3 rune smiths and a couple of more thanes he could easily keep the elves busy for the entire battle while his ranger sniper squad running around and snipe everything breathing That's a proper doomstack not this I always put 4 thanes and 3 rune smiths in my belegar army and the rest are rangers and let me tell you this army combination helped me clearing would elves crisis in 1 turn

[@famulanrevengeance3044]

Heroes are strong, but these doomstacks are meant to have variety

[@alemorikec]

So- Ive got a question for the Dawi and its diplomacy. Is it possibl to have maybe Grombomidal become allies with the Sisters, and tecruit a bunch of Waywatchers to go along with Dawi engineers?

[@lilpotayto]

I don't think the engineers affect them if I remember.

[@Garret007]

I mean it is possible, but usually the only two ways to make them like you are: to give them a money gift every round or bully a common enemy. You would have to test it though, if the engineer buffs apply. (technically they should, since it says "ranged units", so... all kinds of ranged units)

[@alemorikec]

@@Garret007 Ima try it over the weekend.

[@Loj84]

@@lilpotayto pretty sure the engineer buffs are just generically to missile units, which would mean they do buff waywatchers.

[@lilpotayto]

@@Loj84 Ah! I am misremembering then. I had it in my head they only buff dwarf units.

[@petarg1986]

1 more runesmith for bonus missile dmg and 2 more engineers for ammo and think some of their skills stack too and it can take on 3 stacks, hope you have a rune of spite on belegar as well , and there are items that can increase acc for the army that you can make, its a bit more complicated to make, but not that much and its a lot stronger.

[@menorak]

I never understood what exactly that made a belegar bugman ranger doomstack. I know that a thane should be able to give them stealth (and/or snipe?) but no matter how much I looked I couldn't find any information that either Belegar, Belegar's faction OR thanes did that. I assume it's specifically for Belegar?

[@auburnfire]

At 26:00 Legend shows that the Thane has the Wanderer skill that gives Snipe for all Rangers in army. I think that stalk is a native Bugman's Ranger ability.

[@menorak]

@@auburnfire So is that exclusive to Belegar? Because I remember Belegar being rated the best dwarf lord because of this cheese, but I don't see why if it's a thane thing.

[@gamefreakazoid7]

@@menorak Belegar has unique ranger buffs in his skill tree.

[@Loj84]

@@menorak any dwarf army of any faction can give rangers stalk and snipe with a thane, you’re right. But like Kountdown said, belegar has some pretty significant buffs to rangers in his skill tree.

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@GentlemanBystander]

Wutelgi status: grudged

[@cygnusx-1256]

It's not a 10/10 for strength, I won't give it a number rating. Lol, old habits die hard. I like the new rating scheme and the shift in content! I just got a kick out of that. Great stuff Legend!

[@graljoffrewithoutanarmy860]

I wonder if this stack would be any better with Grombrindal at the helm, like the extra speed helping the rangers. Still I don't think they could outrun actually fast units, but it helps a little. This is a very cool stack if you are an economically challenged dwarf and can't afford an Ironbreaker+missile infantry+Organ Gun stack.

[@Ashannon888]

Best thing to do is ignore the Sisters.... oh, well nothing else around, may as well melt them. Sisters die in under 15 seconds.

[@iain-duncan]

I think withdrawing belegar would make the AI use cheats to see your invisible units. Not sure tho but I assume it works like hiding em

[@mephisto04]

lol why is lizardman music playing

[@bar_jumper1312]

11:30 it seems in the current update AI gets stuck at the edge of map an thay there if u place the right unit, for example 2 gyrobommers holding 1 stack choas infantry away gg

[@donarnold2249]

Thanks again 👍

[@Joules_Burne]

I like this new rating system. Doomstacks from a campaign at 400 turns isn't practical (for me).

[@ates423]

forgot to mention they recruit in one turn

[@lookatthebear4435]

Sounds like. 10/10

[@0786RICARDO]

They're kinda fast but still slower than gutter runner slingers

[@msf47]

I like to play wood elves campaigns but holy shit i hate fighting them with passion and watching them getting destroyed in their own run and gun game was a pleasure .

[@patrickbaird8962]

I think Thorek would have boosted them more. Plus can add a runesmith for more ap damage.

[@-HyPe_x7]

Hello Mr Legend, little off topic here, but I often watch your oldest videos (currently watching your first Rome 2 playthrough :)), but the option to sort by oldest is gone. Do you or anyone here knows anything about it? In other channels is gone too, but since I watch this the most I thought I could ask here.

[@DojacGame]

I'm pretty sure that adding runes to non characters doesn't actually apply the effect. Even though it let's you. Could be wrong but I recall adding some runes to my lord but only the ones not labeled non character were applied.

[@svenbrede6151]

This is definitely not perfected. Could give the engineer snipe. Could give Belegar stalk if you wanted or even a small goonsquad of 3 thanes (guardian thane). This could potentially add a stalking sniping piece of artillery. Not sure how good that would be

[@cHaMp630]

Even then a normal army of ironbreakers, thunders, and organ guns will outperform this army.

[@Loj84]

@@cHaMp630 not in every scenario. It will also cost significantly more and it isn’t available until quite a bit later into the campaign.

[@ilesalmo7724]

Using stalk against Wood Elves. 😆

[@houlinfan7835]

this does not work anymore, used the same army against Ikit, when all my rangers are stalking and hidden he somehow drop a nuke on them and send all his army to my " invisible rangers" . the AI is so bugged

[@Tachii31]

The fact that this stack seemed to play more like a disaster battle (cheesing the AI with snipe and Belegar) and less like the way you usually demo doomstacks is a bit of a mark against it from me. But I guess that's what the ease of use score is for.

[@juniusluriuscatalus6606]

Flashback from R2: gallic hunters and dumb AI. Over 200 range makes it absurd and even Germs can get high enough snipey archers... It's so silly. Oh, don't forget taking the towers with stalkers. Heroic guaranteed.

[@Olav_Hansen]

Old metrics this'd be the 'benchmark' 9 out of 10. sisters of avelorn, shades, weapons teams army are pretty comparable.

[@shiizzux5438]

7.4/10 doomstack Practicality : extremely practical (5/5) Strengh : pretty strong (4/5) Ease of use : not easy (2/5)

[@bladeofjustice6427]

Hey, why don't you play the crisis mode and activate all of them, that might give you a challenge 🙈

[@jonatangraversen7623]

legend, do you know if hero buffs to army stack? fx 2 dark elf masters giving xp per round? or only 1 applies? and what about things like disciplined on heroes?

[@GafferPerkele]

Training, replenishment, scouting, etc all apply only once, with the most recent attached overwriting the previous ones or the last leveled up one. So if you say have a max level mage in an army and then attach a low level one with no points in scouting, that mage will overwrite the higher scouting buff and you will have to deattach and reattach the higher level mage to regain their benefits, and each time said lower level mage levels up, they will once again overwrite the scouting effect on the army. Most hero traits do stack up, which is why trait farming is a valuable though time consuming effort. Especially with high elves, if you say want to create a phoenix doomstack.

[@daanda1666]

traits like disciplined stack, abilities like giving units xp per turn or increasing replenishment rate don't stack, if I recall correctly

[@Garret007]

Yea, so in short: most things stack. Everything but the blue skill at the left bottom in the hero skill tree and identical area buff skills that are ONLY active in battle. (like the 10% range increase of a warlock engineer for example). Everything else stacks, pretty sure.

[@TorrentOfficiall]

hey uhm new player to total war... could you like make a totorial on using terrain and basic army set ups

[@funkipoo6859]

7:47 lol

[@DirtyDogLogistics]

3 categories . 1 to 3 points =9. last point is if legend likes it, or his personal approving stamp. there are your numbers.

[@8heimdall8]

he s really missing the other 2 heroes .. the 5 of them are unbeatable with all the rangers behind.. and he s missing the rune of spite

[@SnakeMajor]

Add another engineer or rune smith for more power (eng adds ammo too).

[@DrFeltcher]

Don't ALL legendary lords have siege attacker now?

[@Garret007]

they do. all except gotrek it seems

[@DrFeltcher]

@@Garret007 Ok, weird no Gotrek tho

[@kingcos19]

Love you leg

[@qasemsoleimani9443]

Bit irrelevant, but oh boy, does water look absolutely awful in Warhammer III. There's also something with the lighting. It's better than in Warhammer II, but still inferior to Three Kingdoms and Troy, in my opinion.

[@scroopynoopers8561]

how does belegar have regen?

[@MotoManDan1]

Practicality: 5/5 Strength: 4/5 Ease of Use: 3/5. Total army rating. 4/5.

[@Razorek66]

How do You move Your entire army forward and keep formation?

[@tiebeswinkels8584]

Select units and press control + g. This groups enemies while staying in formation. Any move order will contain the formation

[@123tobealive]

Trying to put the rating into numbers… Practicability: 10/10 Strength: 8/10 Usability: 6/10 ________________ 24/30

[@TW-xg5uh]

HOW DO YOU GET SO MUCH GOLD PER TURN?!?!?!?

[@countdrac08]

no cannons is crap for sieges.

[@blakehall9391]

rangers get no love in auto resolve, makes you fight a lot of battles.

[@sinuosalice-1434]

Rly? i have found bugmen super strong in AR when you have a couple of engineers in

[@ezbo1883]

22:25 :=(

[@sadneil529]

:)

[@alinlight4210]

Crapstack =))))

[@leshiq4214]

That was just stupid! Nice test of unfinished Belegar solo. Why not just simply tank by your heroes while rangers do their DPS? Your strategy thinking has gone too far here!

[@DIEGhostfish]

Because snipe doesn't work well and they WILL find him

[@Loj84]

…because then they will all rush straight past the heroes and kill all of the rangers.

[@ieuancoleman1429]

First?

[@2157AF]

FIRST!! yay

[@SchrodingerMil]

I can't quite remember which rune or item it is, but the one that gives your Lord/Hero a Mortis Engine effect would be INSANE on Belegar in this army since his purpose is to bog down half the enemy army while you pick off units with the Bugmen.

[@ChadtronicFan]

It's the Rune of Spite. Mortis Engine effects are great for most combat lords/heroes.

[@4f52]

Yep I gave it to him or one of his immortal (Campaign and in-battle) Ancestor heroes and he literally could solo an entire army by himself