Belief Alone? Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins? Aaron Gallagher & Trey Fisher Debate/Discussion 3

[@jeannedorton1243]

Sadly Satan working his greatest work through ignorance and naïveté…..I thank our Lord daily that I had the heart of a child to truly read and understand the simpleness of the gospel……how the concept of taking in ALL of what the Bible says to fulfill his plan for my life is missed,by picking and choosing which ones I want to follow,never ceases to amaze me…..Thankyou Aaron for having the patience to unravel every false teaching he utters🙏🏽

[@John-3-36]

I came from the reformed church myself, It's a very dangerous thing to take away from God's Word! Great Job Aaron

[@harolddavis1493]

I'm a member of the church of Christ and I've never seen the attitude that some the church of Christ people especially on KZbin who don't know who you are and try to judge others based on there own opinions I've studied the Bible why do you take ep 28 out of the Bible it clearly says that we are saved by grace through faith of course in Christ but the coc seems to deny that verse I've been rebaptized in the coc but the people will discourage you they did it to me so much that I rather be non denominational than coc I'm just a Christian not denomnation not coc just a Christian

[@user-ym3gt1jg2z]

I also left the reformed church,... To follow Christ and the scriptures in the churches of Christ. Have you noticed that Trey Fisher does not even represent their view correctly or effectively? I think he is a pretender across the board,... I think Aaron and other on tis wall are being to magnanimous with him, considering that he is on a slash and burn attack against the churches of Christ. He is trying to destroy the Lord's church.

[@John-3-36]

@@user-ym3gt1jg2z check out the simple Gospel by Dan winkler

[@Leelee452]

Trey comes across as if he doesn’t really believe what he is saying himself. It’s as if he just wants to argue on every single thing. His first impulse is to disagree even if there is agreement.

[@John-3-36]

In the reformed church they all think​ they are God's elect and that they have all the wisdom and it's nothing more than Martin Luther doctrine ( man's knowledge) They study commentaries! We study sound biblical doctrine! Romans 16:16

[@josianbellot]

People need help to misunderstand the scripture, I have experienced it. Good job Aaron.

[@marcimarceau357]

Excellent handling of God’s word Aaron.. your patients was glory to our God our Father. 💕✝️🗡📜✝️💕

[@luizmoreira6785]

Hello Marci I'm Luiz and I'm a Christian here in Brazil. I'd like to practice my english skills. I do not know if you can,but would you like to practice with me? God bless you a lot Thanks

[@doctorjj21]

Cliff Notes version of all these discussions: Aaron: (well thought out, well referenced argument) Trey: No, you don’t understand what it’s really saying. Aaron: ok, explain it to me. Trey: Let’s talk about something else. Repeat sequence over and over.

[@savedbychrist504]

Great job, Aaron. Thank you for your diligent study and teaching of truth in God’s word.

[@v-campsportsleague6263]

Arron! Excellent point around 1:40:30, when 1 believes it’s assumed that the believer has been BAPTIZED or else why would Paul say, “UNTO WHAT WAS YOU BAPTIZED? Excellent point!

[@kac0404]

The great tragedy of the doctrine of salvation by faith alone is the deception it brings to the hearts of those who honestly are seeking the truth of deliverance from sin and in the mind of God fail to achieve that blessing. Why? The apostle Paul warned Timothy of the dangers of the doctrines of men. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables" (II Timothy 4:3-4). The doctrine of salvation by faith alone is a falsehood.

[@mrwhitelight92]

Well said!

[@michellewilson2995]

Amen

[@sapphonymph8204]

You're absolutely correct.

[@kelseyvanevery7587]

The "belief/ doctrine that water baptism saves is a false doctrine. I Peter 3:21 says baptism now saves you. Correct, but it the baptism of the Holy Spirit which does so, Titus 3:5. I Peter 3:21 even says it is not water baptism (not by removing dirt from the body). God saves those who believe (I Corinthians 1:21, Ephesians 2:8). How does God save? Through the baptism (Greek Loutron) of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) For by one Spirit we are all baptised into one body.(I Corinthians 12:13) A person dunked in dirty water by a sinful man does not even remove dirt from the person's body, much less remove sin from their heart!

[@kac0404]

@Kelsey Van Every THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[@thePATHtoday]

I'm not COC nor Reformed. However, any objective viewer watching this discussion can see that Trey reads into texts his position, but Aaron embraces texts as written. One of the general rules of hermeneutics is: The actual meaning is the intended meaning unless there is overwhelming evidence against the natural reading. Anyway - my two cents.

[@pedromatos2631]

Well said. It’s the difference between exegetical reading of the text and eisegetical reading.

[@dwbid42]

That's very true, so long as the rest of the N.T. doesn't go against what a natural reading of a few verses seen to say.

[@rileyransom7436]

Man Trey is getting taken apart by truth. He can't refute what Aaron is saying. Truth has nothing to fear. I pray Trey that you humble yourself and come back to the truth.

[@jamesfitch4569]

It’s amazing how Trey even wants to twist the words of the early church fathers. This tells me that Satan is the Master Deceiver and can not be taken for granted!

[@brettcarter6189]

It’s moments like that where Trey exposes how disingenuous he really is. He has no problem with bending the truth to conform to his false gospel. He works hard to save face when it would be so much easier for him to just believe the truth and repent.

[@jamesfitch4569]

@@brettcarter6189 I totally agree! He comes off as being a very disheartening person. So very sad 😢

[@sandragibby7611]

'NO NO NO LET ME MAKE MY POINT????? What point???? I really respect your patience Aaron,

[@jamesmott2288]

Aaron makes it crystal clear and Trey does his best to muddy the waters. Aaron has the patience of Job. Trey runs like a rabbit when he feels the pressure. So sad.

[@carolduncan4635]

Yes! Whenever Aaron is making his point he interrupts and interjects his thoughts as if to keep others from hearing the truth. I notice 34:26 he has quit calling members if the church “church of Christers”. Someone must have made him see how juvenile and petty that Mae him look.

[@sandragibby7611]

When Trey says "Wait, Wait, Wait" is just so he can but in and keep Aaron from his side of the debate and interject his diatribe of inexplicable doctrine.

[@jk6653]

It is heart wrenching to know that Trey left the truth for Calvinism. Calvinism!!! that is mind blowing.! it just goes to show you how good Satan is. We need to keep him in our prayers 🙏🏼

[@roseannemaye9263]

I think the same thing. It's really sad that he used to read the Bible truthfully & he actually went away from the truth. That means he doesn't really love the truth. He rejected the truth!

[@stevenandcarlisa]

Great discussion. Thanks Aaron for the clear and honest teaching.

[@zackwilliams7858]

Amen!

[@alexanderbrown2717]

✝️ The gospel of your salvation 🩸 Ephesians 1 KJV 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1 Corinthians 15 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Romans 3 KJV 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 🩸 washed 🩸 Revelation 1 KJV 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Colossians 1 KJV 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Ephesians 1 KJV 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ♥️know♥️ 1 John 5 KJV 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 🩸all🩸 1 John 1 KJV 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[@erikerik979]

I truly appreciate all the work y’all have done on this series of debates can’t wait for the next one

[@reeb9016]

I'm thinking Aaron's patience may be exhausted.

[@harolddavis1493]

@@reeb9016 well what goes around comes around

[@reeb9016]

@harolddavis1493 I'm not sure what you mean. 🤔

[@harolddavis1493]

I've dealt with church of Christ people who discourage me and made me so confused just to cope with this I went back to a sin that God delivered me from I have heard stories about the church of Christ I am a member of the church of Christ been rebaptized but I consider myself just chirstian not denomnation not church of Christ just a Christian trying to be but sometimes

[@harolddavis1493]

@@reeb9016 I meant I had a church of Christ preacher threaten me not a good idea he's lucky I accepted Christ because had that been before God changed me well he wouldn't have a KZbin show any longer Travis Thomas is name

[@gawnan8066]

Inside the gospel of Matthew one reads about baptism (Matt 28:18-20). To say it is not IN the gospel is speaking in ignorance. I MUST read the gospel to learn about it.

[@vanceclark7275]

Trey is dodging alot sincerely 🤷‍♂️

[@Orangeokie7]

I really love these discussions because you have totally shown how powerful the word of God is. Trey simply doesn't want to discuss his word because he knows he can't escape what it says. This video is the clearest example of Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[@Orangeokie7]

@@Quinn-xw5eg that's a semi true statement but only in context. The church of Christ has denominations within itself or in other words autonomous congregations. For example in Acts 9:31, Luke uses the plural form of church to refer to congregations of the church of Christ. He's not saying that these congregations followed different doctrines. Acts 9:31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied. Another example would be Romans 16:16 Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you Again, he's not saying "the Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists greet you." They were denominations of the church of Christ but still one body that followed the same doctrine.

[@Orangeokie7]

@@Quinn-xw5eg it's not an opinion. I just shared passages that back it up. I think the problem is that you have the wrong mindframe. When you think "denomination" you think of Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. That's not what is found in scripture. As a matter of fact, Paul explicitly speaks against it. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

[@Orangeokie7]

@@Quinn-xw5eg well, at least they are calling themselves something biblical. That's a good start. I agree they don't teach biblical doctrine. We can unite on that but unity only comes through the word of God. I mean, you would agree with me that Paul is speaking of one body of believers that are in autonomous congregations but they all follow one doctrine, right? A Baptist and a Lutheran can't both be right when it comes to soteriology. They can both be wrong, but they can't both be right.

[@Orangeokie7]

@@Quinn-xw5eg by the way, "I" don't have the name. That is just a reference to the body of Christ. So is church of God and other names that are given throughout scripture. The body of Christ is never once call Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc in scripture.

[@Orangeokie7]

@@Quinn-xw5eg definitely agree that the church is not a building. I disagree that the early church didn't have a name. They were called the church of Christ, the church of God, body of Christ, bride of Christ, church of the living God, church of the first born and so much more. Again though, what you won't find is that they were called Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians or Methodists. That's just a fact. So why do so many people identify as those man made names? //All of these big church buildings with names on the outside are just a bunch of people claiming to be Christians and have the correct beliefs// Are you sure about that? How can they all have the correct beliefs when they're all different? Especially on the doctrine of salvation. When Paul says this Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. What doctrine is he referring to? Baptist? Lutheran? Presbyterian? Methodist? You still really haven't addressed this issue. Can we all be right if we teach different doctrines? //None of them including the church you go to are the single NT church// I thought we established that the church isn't a building? This is an interesting comment though. When Paul said, "the churches of Christ greet you," was he talking about the true NT church or churches that were not true? I think the real issue, based on what you're saying, is that you don't believe we can know who is in Christ and who isn't. I don't know if you're reformed, but if that is indeed what you believe, that is one of the most ridiculous things about reformed theology that I've ever heard of. We can most definitely know if we're in Christ or if we aren't because the Bible explicitly tells us how one is added to the church.

[@loririggs9058]

Wow. Aaron, you did an amazing job.Trey is severely confused.

[@harolddavis1493]

Don't get me in a conversation with Aaron I've had enough trouble in the church of Christ discourage people who are new to the church of Christ people have insulted me one church of Christ so called preacher Travis Thomas threatened me so I wonder about these people I've been rebaptized in a church of Christ but I don't take threats from no one I've seen coc preachers insult people and I don't like jonney Robertson and calab Robertson ain't afraid to say it was there attitude towards me when I was struggling spiritually and mentally needed help don't go to a coc preacher go to a non denominational preacher

[@davidpaul-satyavakyamu160]

I am a Preacher Church Of Christ from India

[@kithenry]

We are believers in Christ from all over the world

[@davidpaul-satyavakyamu160]

Can you speak to them to speak to me

[@dB_944]

I ran into a member from Australia on a Sky News video on KZbin. We were then ambushed by a guy trying to teach that the Eastern Greek Orthodox Church is the only one faithful to the original scriptures!

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

@@davidpaul-satyavakyamu160 love you, David Paul

[@gawnan8066]

The attitude displayed by Aaron is honorable, respectful, and filled with decorum. The faces, restlessness, and indecency shown from Mr. Trey was inappropriate for a discussion about this subject. I see Trey as completely dogmatic in his approach of exegesis. It is wrong no matter who does it (those in or out of the church).

[@JimiSurvivor]

That is because Aaron knows the grammar and language of scripture and is sure of himself unlike Trey

[@DrTres82]

Agree, Trey sounds dogmatic. Maybe it’s just his style. He mentioned he was dogmatic when a CoC member and he’s just as dogmatic now. It’s OK to be dogmatic but it’s better to be balanced and open minded as we are to Wrestle with God which is God’s preference for his children.

[@roseannemaye9263]

Exactly

[@trebmaster]

Trey is taking up so much air time and there's quite a bit of condescension from him. Observers, take note. Aaron seems perfectly comfortable if he's not in total control of the flow of conversation like Trey commandeers it.

[@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople]

Friend, I think you mean Trey,

[@trebmaster]

@@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople Yes I switched it. Sorry. I just got introduced to the podcast without knowing the guys.

[@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople]

@@trebmaster All good x God bless

[@MrCaza7096]

Yep...I picked up on that as well

[@pedromatos2631]

Unfortunately, I’ve found that belief in Calvinism and a condescending attitude often go hand in hand. While not always the case, if you believe you’ve been chosen by God while others are excluded, it tends to attract those with a haughty, pompous spirit.

[@saulsanchez410]

It seems Trey is putting higher prerequisites for baptism. It's almost like he's saying not everyone can be part of God's family. Secondly the Scripture calls for baptism for salvation in some parts while other parts don't explicitly call for it. Trey seems to believe that it's okay to use the parts that don't call for baptism as justification for why baptism isn't needed.

[@mrwhitelight92]

This is a really good observation! The perfect example of rightly dividing the word. That means taking it all into consideration when it comes to salvation. Not just the one that is mentioned the most, or least even. That is why the CoC teachings are hard to go against. Because they take the WHOLE of God's Word into account, while man-made denominations cherry pick. (II Timothy 2:14-15) - 14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[@michaelanthony1797]

Aaron, your closing statement was great.

[@numbers22_28]

Trey is simply deceived. Sad.

[@harolddavis1493]

Nobody's perfect

[@doctorjj21]

He’s also extremely arrogant and not very smart.

[@harvestworkers626]

Trey is the one who is scripturally correct.

[@austinholland8470]

@@harvestworkers626no he isn’t

[@bowhuntinggirljewel4786]

Trey, I pray you will come back to Christ’s Church before it’s to late! Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[@roysjudy]

First time I've ever seen Aaron on camera and thought "he can't get a word in."🤣

[@HeLivesForever25]

I love the fact that Aaron tries to dismantle the conversation by taking Trey down lots of irrelevant bunny trails, and Trey deliberately interrupts him. Trey won't let Aaron get away with running, and it seriously frustrates Aaron when he's held accountable to the word of God. Trey frequently says, "You're giving me your thoughts and ideas, I'm sticking to what's in the text." Bingo, Trey! Excellent job. 95% of Aaron's claims are pure speculation. Trey sticks to the text itself. No COC argument can withstand being held accountable. Trey knows the COC inside and out, how they operate, how they think, and nails it point blank. Trey is a sheer genius at handling the COC. Absolute genius.

[@UglyOldGoat]

FYI. I went from Luther, to Reformed, to the Church of Christ, to Calvin. In understanding be men. Lord, bless these two Bereans.

[@JoshuaRiiny]

Acts 2:38 is a perfect example of those who are added to the body of Christ. There is no record in the history of believers in the book of Acts who were not baptized and are added to the main church. (The body of Christ) I love this debates.

[@biruk8617]

God bless you, Aaron. You nailed it. I mean it. I am amazed by your God-given patience! I wish I had that! Brother Trey was caught running away from Acts 19:5, there is NO WAY he can manipulate that verse, so he went to Galatians with the speed of light {1:50:00}. I cannot have these kinds of dialogues with 'smart people' knowing that they are set out to prove something they already believe rather than to obey the pure word. "Faith only" is the "New-age cult", a twin movement to the "faith no more". It insults the heavenly God and reduces Him to their level. Traditional churches believed not the Word but their own ways and Trey refers to that. He has not yet freed himself from the teachings of the fallen church which forces him to interpret the Living Word according to them. This "new-age cult" is based on a mere mental agreement and lip service towards the message of the gospel but lacks obedience to the Lord's commandment. This "once saved always saved" serpent seed is the "great falling away" which is giving rise to all of the filth in the "professing" church. If they literally have "Nothing to overcome!", it is a waste of time for the Lord and His Apostles to preach and write everything in the Bible.

[@MJ-ug9cg]

Recognizing that you need a bath doesn’t make you clean. You are clean after the bath is complete.

[@carlososorio2929]

It is very clear what the fathers of church believed to be forgiven of their sins “ to be baptized “

[@garyengel]

Trey picks apart tiny bits but never puts it all back together again. If he were to just read the text he would see it doesn't make sense with his interpretation of the bits he's pulling out. As others mentioned, I also noticed Trey is condescending. To be fair, I think he's trying to inject some humor, but it comes across as disrespectful with statements like "That's a good church of Christ answer", "You church of Christ people", etc.. These 3 videos make it very clear Trey is not on the side of truth. Switching positions, and stumbling to shoehorn his belief into text when it clearly does not work. Aaron's explanation, understanding, and wrap-up encompasses everything in a fantastic way. Great conversation, nice job, nice preparation.

[@jacobanderson5900]

Trey, is very accusative and just is constantly saying he is wrong. His heart is closed and he knows he’s not winning the argument so his only defense is to say “you’re so wrong and it’s sad”. I don’t know treys back story, but from what I see, he can’t put his ego down and respect his opinion. Aaron is saying I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Trey is just insulting Aaron and it’s sad. When you do debates both parties deserve respect, and Trey is lacking in that. Good Job Aaron. You have shown such a true and strong heart.

[@ursulak.]

I would love to see you debate Mike Winger on these topics, Aaron. I'm sure it would be a much better discussion since he would actually let you speak.

[@bartg-gc7hf]

2:30:45 Trey's pause & answer to this simple objective question reveals his dishonest handling of God's word exhibited through much of these 3 discussions.

[@bookchapterverse6830]

23:24 - 23:30 Trey makes his most compelling argument for the first time in three, three-hour videos.

[@newtestamentchristian6932]

@ 55:10 Trey Fisher says he doesn't have a problem with baptism being for the forgiveness of sins. Trey Fisher also does not have a problem with denying baptism is not to remove ones sin only to show others your faith that you have your sins forgiven before baptism. This is why men like Mr. Fisher are incapable of teaching the truth, he is confused and blinded from the truth. He clearly contradicts what he says he believes about the purpose of baptism.

[@joannbritt5195]

IT IS SOOOOO PLAIN TO READ !!!! GOOD JOB AARON, PRAYERS FOR TREY

[@trebmaster]

Does Trey know that the gospel has a component to obey? 1 Pet. 4:19 and 2 Thes. 1:9. He keeps trying to frame it like the gospel is only what Christ has done for us and not what is open for us to do in response to receive. His constant tactic is to be in complete control over words and definitions and limiting them where it's convenient for him and stretching where it's not. Semantic games constantly. What is going on?

[@sapphonymph8204]

@zyxwvut saved by grace through faith (alone) is the denominational creed. Adding the word ''alone ''is adding to God's word.

[@roseannemaye9263]

The Bible says those who wrest the words of God do it to their own destruction. Those who won't hear the words of God or receive them are not of God.

[@kymbender4215]

You keep interrupting, and don't let Aaron speak!! It's very irritating!!! It makes me go off the podcast

[@tiavee]

Yes! His interruptions were like a teacher scratching her fingernails on a chalkboard. It took me a while to get through these discussions.

[@carolduncan4635]

Because he is afraid they will hear the truth is Aaron talks

[@michellewilson2995]

Yes, it is very irritating. I stopped watching for that reason. I only came back 2 weeks later

[@dustinhuffman8089]

Over the course of all 3 debates I’ve noticed what I assume to be trey projecting, when he continually says “CoC says believe means baptism” or “CoC says repent means baptism”. I don’t know if this is because that was his understanding when he was preaching for a church or Christ, or if it’s because he believes everything means “faith”. He multiple times has said something to the effect of calling on the name of the lord means faith or obedience is the flip side of the faith coin. I have not one time heard Aaron say believe means baptism, or confess or repent or obey means baptism, nor have I heard anyone in the church say that. Trey seems to have a disconnect in understanding the position that belief is unto salvation, repentance is unto salvation, confession is unto salvation, and baptism is unto salvation, it just so happens that baptism is the point at which the blood is applied. If the scripture indicated that repentance was the point at which the blood was applied we would be just as ardent as defending the importance of repentance as well. The whole reason members of the church seem so ferocious in our defense of baptism is because it is the one thing the denominational world almost universally agrees on isn’t necessary. We don’t “worship water” but we understand it’s necessity. If the denominational world disregarded any other command we would be just as fiery in our defense.

[@dB_944]

I agree that Trey was either taught incompletely (to be nice) or had some type of bad experience with congregations he was part of. When he said he went to Harding, it made a little more sense. I remember dealing with kids from Lipscomb who were taught faith only from Rubel Shelly. I feel bad for him.

[@dsvet]

@@dB_944 He said he was a disciple of Phil Robertson, the duck dynasty guys.

[@dB_944]

@@dsvet I actually was watching their Cultish podcast and came across that last night. Nothing against the Robertsons, but I wouldn’t put them in the “conservative” group. They bought a winery in one of their episodes. I can see why Trey might not have had the best teachers. It’s surprising how all of these people view the Church and all of the misconceptions they have.

[@DannyLoyd]

in Col 2:12 it says that when you are baptized you are raised through FAITH. Also read Gal 3:26_27 children of God through Faith for as many who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" so yes we are saved by faith, when? when we are baptized into Christ. what type of faith? a dead faith? or an obedient faith? read James 2

[@jenelle2494]

Very interesting debate. You did a good job defending the gospel, Aaron 👍🏽

[@alexanderbrown2717]

2 Corinthians 4 KJV 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 1 Corinthians 15 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Romans 3 KJV 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 1 Corinthians 1 KJV 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. Ephesians 1 KJV 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[@phillipgoodson2057]

1 Corinthians Chapter 15 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: That is the gospel. Period. If you add anything to it you incur the curse of God just like those false Christians from Jerusalem. They followed Paul around adding things to the gospel just like the church of Christ. They are cursed. Galatians 1:8-9 KJV But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[@sapphonymph8204]

@@phillipgoodson2057 I think your curse rebounded back to you. The apostle Paul, through the holy spirit taught forgiveness of sins through or by baptism.

[@phillipgoodson2057]

@@sapphonymph8204 please provide a scripture for that. I condemn your false accusation and curse. I have not preached any other gospel contradicting the word of God. Please read the gospel: 1 Corinthians Chapter 15 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[@jenelle2494]

@@phillipgoodson2057 Baptism for the remission of sins is not a different gospel. Just like belief, repentance, and confession, it is necessary. You can’t twist God’s word and use it to disobey what He commanded us to do.

[@sammymoore1739]

Awesome Awesome closing Aaron

[@razorrebel]

Trey’s condescension toward the Lord’s church is so sad.

[@jamesstrohl2016]

Hmm. If you believe in Christ, then doesn't John state that if you do won't you keep His commands? Trey you just blew your argument. WOW

[@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople]

Exactly. its recorded in three gospels "If you love me, keep my commandments" And then of course Hebrews 5:9 "ANd being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" Musta mistyped, I'm sure they meant "all those that believe on him"

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

@@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople All faith only sectarians I've spoke with say Hebrews 5:9 obey means the same as believe. If so then James 2:19 *even the demons believe(obey) and tremble* The demons obey God?

[@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople]

@@bellcoolmountain6650 exactly! It’s ridiculous

[@dB_944]

It’s the whole duty of man! Ecc 12:13. Sums it up!

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

@zyxwvut Who submits to obey all of Jesus' commandments in His gospel, the church of Christ or sectarian faith only and no obedience to Gods commandments salvationists? Demons refuse to obey God, I believe all must obey God to be saved. Faith onlyist's believe they do not have to obey God to be saved. Who is surrendering to the Lord? Jesus commands baptism in water, Mark 16:15-16 *he that believeth and is baptized will be saved; he that believeth not will be condemned* Who surrenders to Gods commandments and obeys Jesus to be baptized to be saved? Who refuses to surrender to Jesus' commandments to be baptized for the remission of sins?

[@MtCur]

Sounds like Trey is taking baptism out. Aaron is just reading plain text. How can you add something Jesus said to do? Mark 16:15-16

[@michellewilson2995]

Amen. If Jesus said it, I believe it and will obey it

[@DRMLiveJazz]

1:32:35 This is gold. Trey's homemade goof "word judo" is put in its place. Notice Aaron cites a scholarly source to define words (or "word judo" as Trey would slur) while Trey spouts run on sentence upon rabbit trail upon run on sentence while saying what he thinks the church of Christ should say and do - and it goes unchecked as "word judo."

[@gwendolynthomas4331]

Trey said that he preached at the University Church of Christ. Look it up. It's a very liberal congregation. This will answer why he's so confused. It's not the church that we read about in the Bible!!

[@dB_944]

I knew that was what Aaron was fishing for. He also mentioned Harding. It’s not new. Rubel Shelly used to preach faith only at Lipscomb.

[@HeLivesForever25]

Wow! Trey dismantled all of the secular humanist speculation Aaron could offer and reduced them to sawdust. Trey demolished every word out of Aaron's mouth with spectacular brilliance. Aaron got frustrated because Trey maintained context to the Nth degree and it left Aaron spinning in the wind. Trey is a master at dealing with the COC and the scripture.

[@josianbellot]

I totally agree, context is key.

[@michellewilson2995]

Trey, again, it's hard to kick against the truth.

[@eliphasphiri4090]

I totally agree with you; baptism is a symbol of what has already happened in our lives,

[@addisnet21]

Baptism is a very clear teachings. Unless you keep denied it.

[@studiodemichel]

Discussion on Justin Martyr ending at 59:15 and the quotes displayed on the screen shows that JM believes that the regeneration occurs at the washing of baptism. Because Trey believes that the regeneration occurs before baptism, he cannot see this. But it's clear Martyr points to baptism as the ceremony at which it occurs..."the washing is called illumination" and "he who is illuminated is washed." In Martyr's mind, illumination and washing are the same. The illumination is the gift of the Holy Spirit received at the regeneration. In addition, twice does Martyr use the words pronounced before the baptism of the repentant believer (Father, Son and Holy Ghost and he refers to (John 3) Jesus' teaching about water and Spirit. Trey wants to throw the water away from regeneration. They are regenerated where there is water. In the previous passage, the "saving bath of the olden time" is Christian baptism. It "followed those who repented" and " by faith through the blood of Christ." The "laver" is the baptistry. I think baptism is "the foolishness of preaching." If baptism is where the repentantant believer is saved by the blood of Christ, it makes sense as to why baptism is the very first thing Satan attacked in the church and the very thing he confuses to this day.

[@jackleencarmack251]

If you can’t convince, shake the dust off your feet.

[@jamesfitch4569]

People feed the hungry and cloth the poor that don’t have faith in God! One cannot put baptism in that category! Biblical faith obedience to the gospel which includes baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Trey is either very confused or just plain dishonest. He hates the church that Christ purchased with His blood 😢. Very sad 😢

[@michellewilson2995]

Well said....on that day many will say, did I not do good works?

[@dwbid42]

Christ didn't purchase the Church with his blood, he only put a down payment on it until one is baptized. Without baptism Christ's work means nothing.

[@aaronhoward1115]

I agree with Trey theologically, but he is not being respectful to Aaron's time. Trey is not slow to speak and quick to listen. You are not representing the reformed side when doing this. It sounds prideful.

[@ryanjones2297]

Thief on the cross has several issues as a pattern for Christians. First problem is that the thief died before the command to be baptized was issued to the apostles by Jesus right before His ascension. People were still under the old law until Acts 2. Second problem, Jesus forgave people's sins when he saw them in person several times, the thief wasn't alone in that, and he died before he could commit more sins, therefore died in a sinless state. The jailer washed their stripes before he was baptized to show repentance, since he was likely the one that put those stripes there. Repentance is required before your sins are forgiven, so was a necessary step before baptism and equally important.

[@sareenamorrow4150]

Excellent job Aaron!!

[@larryjohnson2945]

Trey needs to answer this, when does one walk in the newness of Life? Romans 6:3-4!

[@DannyLoyd]

also says in v7 " died with Christ you are freed from sin" talking about baptism, read v6 also.

[@93556108]

The relevant text in Acts that the questioner raised, Acts 22:16: “Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins . . .” Now, if you stopped right there, you’d say, “Well, there it is. The water is the forgiving agent.” But that’s not where you stop. It says, “Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.” The sense I think is the same. Baptism is the outward expression of calling on the name of the Lord in faith. It’s not the water that effects our justification or union with Christ. The water is a picture of the cleansing, but the faith in the heart, the call on the Lord from faith, is what unites us and forgives us. When Does Salvation Start? I would first answer by making the question more precise, because the way I’d pose the question is “Are we justified before, in, or after baptism? Are we united to Christ? Do we become one with Christ, and does God become one hundred percent for us before, in, or after baptism?” Because in the New Testament, the word saved is used for what happens before, in, and after baptism. (Ephesians2:8; 1Cor1:18; Rom13:11). Being saved happened before, is happening now, and will happen finally in the future. The word salvation in the New Testament is broad and includes pieces of salvation. But what’s really being asked is “When did it all start? When was the first moment of union with Christ - the moment of justification, which is not a process like sanctification is, but is decisive?” “God becomes one hundred percent for us in the instant that we have faith in Jesus.” “If God is for us, who can be against us?” (Romans 8:31). When did that start? At what point does God count us a child - not a child of wrath, which we all are by nature (Ephesians 2:3), but a child of God, so that from that point on, he is one hundred percent for us, with no wrath? When did that happen? What was the decisive means that brought it about, that united us to Christ, that justified us? Here’s my conclusion to the question: faith precedes baptism. That’s why I’m a Baptist. Faith precedes baptism and is operative in baptism. So we are justified at the very first act of genuine saving faith in Christ, and then baptism follows, and preferably would follow soon, as an outward expression of that inward reality. Final verse that debunked baptism theology is required for the forgiveness of your sins; . (Act 16:30) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Act 16:31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Thank you.

[@jeffouellette9946]

You become union with Christ the minute you receive the holy Spirit. It is the holy Spirit that does the work. Now you have to ask what does it take to receive the holy Spirit. Then it also goes back the intent of a person giving their life to Christ and what it was all going to come down to. Because if people don't think that it cost them it does. It does cost a person to turn away from the ways of the world. That's why repentance has to happen in the beginning. Not saying that it won't take time until all sin is worked out. Because I know the Bible says we're being saved like you said it is now and in the future. But it's the holy Spirit that renews regenerates and makes a person a new creation. And he gives the holy Spirit to those that obey so there's an obedience message when you apply the Bible to your life that you can be saved. I don't believe in this stuff where somebody can simply believe and they can be saved because their intent may not to be a changed person.

[@93556108]

​@@jeffouellette9946 #1. I quote your message; "You become union with Christ the minute you receive the holy Spirit. It is the holy Spirit that does the work." I guess you missed out something before you can receive the sealing of the Holy Spirit. The Bible say; (Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Note the sealing of the Holy Spirit comes after you trusted, after you heard the gospel, in whom after you believed only then you're sealed with the Holy Spirit. Another example; (Act 10:44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Note Peter preach the word to Cornelius and they believed then they were sealed with the Holy Spirit then only they were baptized in Acts10:47. So this proves first Cornelius and his family heard Peter's preaching, the believed than the Holy Spirit came upon them before they were even baptized. This disprovesthat baptism is a condition fo salvation. #2. I quote "I don't believe in this stuff where somebody can simply believe and they can be saved because their intent may not to be a changed person." Note I dsagree when you claim "I don't believe in this stuff where somebody can simply believe" . Why not? because the Holy Spirit's Ministry is to convict the person of their sin, righteousness and judgment (John16:8) and faith comes from hearing the Word (Romans10:17) and that person is capable of receiving or rejecting the offer of salvation (John3:17-19). Obviously it's the work of the Holy Spirit that regenerates that person's soul and not by the works of that person.(Titus3:5) In conclusion, do you believe that baptism is mandatory for salvation?

[@303guy7]

The way "believe" is being used in the new testament is to Do something in relation to something you have heard. Example: if I were to say "Go to the supermarket at 2 am and I will you a million dollars," now if you "believe" in what I was to do. You would go the supermarket. So when someone hears the gospel: the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And you believe that the gospel is Jesus died for your sins. You show that belief, by doing what is commanded. Acts 2:38. Now "believe " is a free will action. You can hear the gospel and believe or You can hear the gospel and not believe Mark 16:16. When you read Paul's letter. When Paul uses the word "believed" past tense. He related it to when they heard the gospel and believed and did what was commanded. Acts 2:38

[@HeLivesForever25]

Physical analogies for salvation never work. Every physical analogy requires a PHYSICAL response on the part of the human. Everything done in salvation is 100% the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit Himself. There is no physical action on the part of the sinner that causes, creates, or in any way influences or affects salvation. God does everything. We have no part to play in our own salvation. Physical analogies are worthless.

[@LGLO1234]

1 Corinthians 14:33-40 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Matthew 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.

[@roseannemaye9263]

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@roseannemaye9263]

After the first & second admonition, a heretic reject.

[@melissacarney4645]

I have thoroughly enjoyed these videos and wondered when the next one would be available.

[@biruk8617]

God bless you, Aaron! I just learned one of my greatest lessons. How a "heretical teaching" is born from the "professing believer". My God! So Trey believes the New Covenant started before Jesus Christ died! Wow! How far these people go to prove their man-made theology!

[@dB_944]

I’ve listened to Trey, James white, and others just to try to understand Calvinism and why they believe it. They say a lot of words, explain their tenants, but to this day I still don’t understand the point of Calvinism.

[@phillipgoodson2057]

I was raised in the Church of Christ. When I started reading the Bible for myself I just submit myself to what God says. This is the 5 main points of Calvinism. They use the acronym TULIP. T = Total Depravity Romans 3:10-18 KJV as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; With their tongues they have used deceit; The poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. U = Unconditional John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Romans 9:16 “So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” John 17:9 “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Romans 8:28-31 KJV And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Ephesians 1:4-6 KJV according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. John 15:16 “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Timothy 1:9 “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” L= Limited Atonement This is easy. If you believe in hell then you have to believe the inhabitants sins were NOT atoned for, or else they would not be there. But here is scripture supporting it. John 20:26-29 KJV And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 17:2 “As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” Romans 9:21-24 King James Version 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? I= Irresistible Grace John 6:37 “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” 1 John 4:19 “We love him, because he first loved us.” Romans 9:15-18 KJV For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. P = Preservation of the Saints John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” John 6:47 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” 1 John 5:13 “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” Romans 8:33-37 King James Version 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. That is Calvinism in a nutshell…TULIP 😁

[@dB_944]

@@phillipgoodson2057 those are the teachings, but what is the point? If God is sovereign to the point that we don’t have anything to do with salvation, what is our purpose? It doesn’t give me any comfort. How do I actually know that the Holy Spirit has “given me a new heart?” There has to be a fundamental point to the whole teaching and why people follow it. I just never see a good answer. In some ways, it seems very arbitrary and not deterministic.

[@phillipgoodson2057]

@@dB_944 The simple answer is rewards. Our lives are like a vapor, here today gone tomorrow. The way you live your life matters a great deal. You will be rewarded for your good works with eternal rewards. Others with no good works will have no rewards. Eternity is a long time to go if you have nothing, and seeing your brothers and sisters who have much. 1 Corinthians 3:13 “Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Corinthians 3:14 “If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.” 1 Corinthians 3:15 “If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” If you are one of Gods sheep you have been bought and paid for. All His sheep are coming home. This life is like boot camp preparing you for eternity. Make the most of it!

[@phillipgoodson2057]

@@dB_944 it’s the most human debasing doctrine ever! The most hated! The only reason anyone believes it is because it’s all in the Bible! No man would ever come up with something like this! Your salvation is secure. This gives me GREAT comfort! Now you spend the rest of your life serving your King!

[@phillipgoodson2057]

@@dB_944 1 John 5:13 “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” You can’t believe the gospel if you’re not born again.

[@rayrose6499]

I am a gospel preacher in the church of Christ! The gospel in essence is the Death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But you have to appropriate the good news of the gospel by faith, repentance, and baptism. Repentance and baptism are acts of faith.

[@robertgomezjr2640]

Nowhere in the New Testament does it state the household is no longer to receive the sign of the covenant. The 8 day old infant was circumcised. Why? The infant is baptized. Why? The promise is for you and your children. What is the promise? I will be your God. Not all Isreal is Isreal, and not all in the visible Church are the Church.

[@odensworld8879]

A question I would have for Trey is - How were the people declared righteous under the law of Moses? By simply hearing and believing in the law - or by obeying it? Deut. 6:27, Romans 2:13. I bring that up because belief only is not a trend of the scripture. Sorry if those points were already discussed in the first video, as I haven’t watched it yet. Anyway, great discussion guys.

[@kelseyvanevery7587]

@Oden'sworld: In the Tanakh, Moses and others were declared righteous by faith in God (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), not by obeying the Law or believing the Law

[@kac0404]

@@kelseyvanevery7587 It should be clear that those who try to “disconnect” faith from obedience are grievously mistaken! Those concepts are linked in Scripture. To “believe in Jesus” is to “obey Jesus” (Mk.16:16; Ac.8:12; 18:8; Ga.3:26-27; Col.2:12). Now, the only question which remains is: “Do you TRULY believe in Jesus?”

[@kelseyvanevery7587]

@kac0404 Your scripture verses all show faith first (for salvation). Your error is in assuming the baptisms mentioned are water baptisms. God saves those who believe (I Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 2:8). How does God save? By the BAPTISM (Greek word loutron) of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.(Titus 3:5) The Galatians 3:27 baptism is of the Holy Spirit. I Peter 3:21 states baptism now saves us. It does. God's baptism with the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). I Peter 3:21 even states it is NOT water baptism; " not by removing dirt from the body." A sinful man dunking a person in filthy water does not even remove dirt from the persons body, much less remove sin from the person's heart. For by One Spirit we are ALL baptised into one body. (I Corinthians 12:13). Salvation is by faith in the risen Messiah. Your false, man-made doctrines are close to heresy

[@kac0404]

@Kelsey Van Every Notice, that you said "faith first"! Is faith required for salvation? YES! Is salvation by faith alone? NO! In Romans 10:16, we read this: “But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, ‘LORD, who has believed our report?’” If you will take note, the word “obeyed” is equated with the word “believed” in that passage! This just confirms in a direct way what I have said, namely, that “faith” and “obedience” are linked! Now let’s consider another example. In Hebrews 3:16-19, we read this: “For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So, we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” This passage confirms what we have already observed, but from the negative perspective. Those who “rebelled,” “sinned,” and “did not obey” did so “because of unbelief.” Now, let’s consider one more example. In John 3:36, we read this: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (cf. ASV, NASV, ESV). Once again, the one who “believes in the Son” is clearly the one who will “obey the Son.” In fact, the words “faith” and “obedience” are so linked that they can be used interchangeably (cp. KJV, NKJV).

[@kelseyvanevery7587]

@kac0404 Faith and obedience are not linked when it comes to salvation. Obey the gospel: the "gospel" is defined in I Corinthians 15:1-4, the death, burial & resurrection of Christ. To "obey the gospel " is to put faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah. Mark 1:15: Repent (change your mind) and believe the gospel. Obey the gospel means to believe the gospel. I Corinthians 15:2: by this gospel you are saved. 15:3 Christ died for our sins (not water baptism for our sins. I John 1:7: and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanseth us from ALL sin (not dunking in filthy water by a sinful man cleansing from sin. Jesus is the propitiation of our sin (I John 2:2; I John 4:10), not dunking in filthy water by a sinful man. Have you cut out of your Bible the clear baptism God uses to save us? (Titus 3:5, I Corinthians 12:13). I noticed you ignore those scriptures to cling hard and fast to your man-made doctrine of salvation by water baptism.

[@DRMLiveJazz]

2:10:59 Trey's response. Ouch. Wow. Trey exposed. Compare this to the pedigree he lists endlessly on all videos. Wow.

[@gawnan8066]

One last point. In the context of all passages the terms belief and faith are comprehensive terms. Trey is not see the active nature that faith includes obedience.

[@michellewilson2995]

Amen...that's it right there. Faith is obedience

[@bookchapterverse6830]

Take a look at 2:10:55. Trey Fisher has spent so much time on many of his vids talking about how he has seen behind the curtains and is/was a churchachrist preacher, went to a churchachrist college, high school, spent his whole life churchachrist. Here is is made to admit that he was not an actual preacher. In fact, as young as he is, if he were an actual preacher and had been the preacher at that many churches, he was more than likely asked to leave. I don't think that is the case, but it is clear that he was not actually a preacher. He was more than likely asked to fill in. The "community groups" and "home churches" and "taught classes" that he mentions aren't preaching and, in most cases, are the result of people volunteering to do so. As far as his education goes, the church of Christ schools he mentions do not mean anything in his pedigree, other than how the religious classes of the institution are directed and that there is an affiliation. This doesn't make anyone more or less "church of Christ" and certainly doesn't qualify Trey. You don't have to be a member of the church of Christ to attend any of these institutions. Because he grew up in that tradition, he is probably including times that they were teaching young men to lead worship. His pedigree that is so heavily relied upon to give credence to his "I know the behind the scenes and can deliver you" song and dance that is done. He's bogus. He's lying. What he's saying isn't what it truly is. He did some of what he says he did, but this was not his profession, not his role in the church, and not the position he has worked so hard to make the internet believe. If you made a phone call or two, you'd see he's blowing hot air and probably in the same place he finds himself in this video: a blowhard who won't let anyone have a word, a knowitall who has shallow rooting in the Bible, a former "churchachrister" that got burned for his lack of knowledge and has an axe to grind (as seen in all the smug and condescending remarks and the slurs toward the church), and merely a guy with a youtube account who can't preach for lack of articulation and self-awareness skills. He is exposed.

[@michaelsage4599]

I wish that Trey would tell us all from scripture what baptism is and how a believer receives the remission of their sins. Col 2:12 Rom 6:3-4 1 Peter 3:21 & The entire book of Acts show the necessity of baptism for the remission of sins. Trey thinks the new covenant started when Jesus died too. It started in the day of Pentecost. It’s just a horrible non commitment gospel that Trey preaches. Look at all of Jesus’ post resurrection commands to the disciples. ‘Wait in Jerusalem where remission of sins will be preached in my name’ Luke 24 - ‘Go make disciples baptizing them’ Matt 28:18 ‘He who believes and is baptized will be saved’ Mark 16 Baptism is necessary only because it is COMMANDED by Christ. If he didn’t command it, then we wouldn’t need to do it. I will pray for Trey for sure that he will come back to the sound doctrine of the Word of God. It’s not that complicated.

[@michellewilson2995]

Amen, well said

[@Leelee452]

It’s amazing how badly Trey misunderstands and/or misrepresents the teaching of the church of Christ having been a member for 18 years. I know he twists it to make himself sound better. Just saying.

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

Eisegesis Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases.

[@tamarin2k]

Trey, "What is the gospel?"... Aaron, " I am fine with baptism is a response to the gospel.'. Bingo!

[@gawnan8066]

This is very difficult to watch. I think this is true no matter what side one is on. The structure of who presents and who is quiet while the other is presenting is missing.

[@CBDEnglish]

I am not a Calvinist. This guy, Trey Fisher, did a bad job defending a true doctrine. But that does not mean Aaron is right. He is completely wrong.

[@EmV-si1eu]

When you put all of Scripture together, the sovereignty of God, the volition and responsibility of man and everything else, the precient view of salvation just doesn't hold up!

[@larryjohnson2945]

Romans 6:3-11 baptism is the only thing in the New Testament that is synonymous with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ!

[@anitan5983]

The book of Hebrews where the writer says to believers " the doctrines of Christ: repentence of dead works and faith towards God, BAPTISMS, laying of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgement. The writer makes it very clear that those ate the foundational docrines and they mUst be understood before moving onto perfection. He also makes a remark saying God willing. Meaning if uou do not have a clear understanding ofbthe foindational docteines of Christ which is theilk pf the word then you can mot moce unto perfection. In the previous chapter paul says For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. This is the problem with men wjo teach and are not given the gift of teaching, they are not equipped from the Holy Spirit to teach because it is one of many gifts stated in the passage that speaks of the gifts of the Spirit. Again if we have the Holy Spirit hebwill lead us to all truth but we must humble ourselves and be teachable! I believe that without complete understanding of the foundational doctrines of Christ we find ourselves building our house on false doctrines. And therefore unable to move onto the meat of the word which is the word of righteousness that transforms us from babesbto mature children of God walking in his righteousness mot our own.

[@1861olesamule]

God saves man by GRACE, when man OBEYS God, by FAITH. This principal is the same from the beginning of time both OT and NT. What God request is different in each dispensation, but the principal from the character of God...remains consistent.

[@JimiSurvivor]

Did it take the early Christians CENTURIES to work out the SIMPLE easily expressed doctrine of ABSOLUTE DETERMINISM that ended up REPLACING the earlier teaching of FREE WILL as the central doctrine of the Church??? Really? This is ONE REASON the Western Church who believed Augustinian's teaching parted ways from the Eastern Church which NEVER accepted Augustines doctrine of Original Sin and Total Inability.

[@gawnan8066]

Another point that is important was that Campbell was NEVER a member of what Trey calls the church of Christ. Even Wikipedia states, “Their congregations identified as Disciples of Christ or Christian churches.” Nothing in the church of Christ, and what they teach, began, or originated, with Alexander Campbell.

[@HeLivesForever25]

Rejecting history doesn't help. 100% of the hermeneutics and method of worship in the Church of Christ came exclusively from Alexander Campbell. Dealing with the brutal dishonesty of the Churches of Christ regarding their own history is one reason I don't have many conversations anymore. Churches of Christ despise their own history and church history. Without it, the discussion is incoherent gibberish. I don't waste my time anymore.

[@gawnan8066]

@@HeLivesForever25 You cannot find one practice in the Church of Christ that originated with Alexander Campbell. I find 100% of what I practice, teach, etc., from putting my finger on the jots and tittles of the Word of God. Your claim is without support so I challenge you to find anything that originated with Mr. Campbell! Just saying it does not make it so. Don’t waste our time making illogical and unsupported claims.

[@MrCaza7096]

@2:05ish they're discussing what is the Gospel. In 2Tim 2:1-2 Paul talks about grace which is in Jesus 'AND the things that you have heard from me(Paul)....'

[@dustyjack]

Came here looking for a sound debate so I could hear from the experts. This was so confusing. I’m not even sure if we ever successfully got on topic. Trey should not be debating if he can’t stay on point it’s very frustrating and I found myself just wanting him to stop talking and stop interrupting.

[@gawnan8066]

Trey kept stating believing does not mean baptism. I agree. The text states they believed AFTER they were baptized. If I was told my house was on fire 🔥 and I escaped the fire by leaving the house. Then the fire-fighters said, “Everyone believing the message that the house was on fire were saved by leaving the house. Who will say salvation was by belief alone?

[@davidbarnes5280]

What text says that?

[@kac0404]

?????????????????

[@davidbarnes5280]

Did you believe the firemen before or after you left your house?

[@toddstevens9667]

Romans 5:1 KJV Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Just pointing out that the NT isn’t as cut-and-dried as so many of you seem to think.

[@gawnan8066]

@@toddstevens9667 Where do you see the word ‘alone’ in that verse. See that point? I believe we are justified by faith. When Paul visited Ephesus the record states they heard the word of the Lord (Acts 18:5, 10); believed (Acts 18:4), were baptized (Acts 18:5); confessing and repentance was a part of Paul’s preaching to be saved (Rom. 10:9; Acts 20:21; 26:20). Then years later Paul wrote to the people of Ephesus who heard, believed, confessed, repented, and were baptized, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.” Those. Who did the things that Paul said saved are saved by faith. Not because of merit, but an answer in good conscience (1 Pet 3:21).

[@Savedtotheuttermost1978]

He got mad because he couldn't put Baptism in where Faith stands alone..

[@marktownsend7367]

On the subject of "the gospel" being the NT or just the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, Aaron is correct. The Greek word for “Gospel” is (euaggelion) - Matt. 9:35; Mark 1:1. To Anglicize the Greek word would make it read, “evangel”. Therefore, an “Evangelist” is a person who preaches or teaches the “Gospel” 1) As with Philip the Evangelist - Acts 21:8; Acts 8 2) As with Timothy who was to do the work of an Evangelist - 2 Tim. 4:5; The work defined: 1 Tim. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:10. 3) Evangelists (euaggelistēs) were given to build up the body of Christ - Eph 4:11-12. It's used for both teaching people about what Jesus did for your sin as well as teaching Christians how to live under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

[@sapphonymph8204]

How would we go about obeying your definition of the gospel?

[@stanleygavin32fb]

@@sapphonymph8204 live under the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

[@HeLivesForever25]

The gospel being the entire NT is one of the most grievous and devastating errors ever produced by the Churches of Christ. The gospel is the DBR of Jesus Christ. Period. Nothing more and nothing less. It can not be both. And it is not both. The greatest tragedy of the COC is holding that the entire NT is the gospel.

[@ravisekhars4217]

Greetings to you in the name of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ 🙏. Good message brothers 🙏

[@michaelshubr4084]

Regardless of Traditions and Doctrines of Man, Messiah taught Repentance for Sin, and this is the same message in the Old Testament, or “The Gospel of G-d.” He also said “lest you be born again….” To be changed from the inside out is a very real occurrence for those who have Repented and accepted their Pardon. Don’t fool yourselves!

[@sulongenjop7436]

Baptism is a ritual and symbol of accepting and following Jesus, believing and trusting in his teaching....it is to be done once in our life time but we can confess and ask God for forgiveness from time to time.

[@JimiSurvivor]

Baptism is just a ritual and a symbol? You sound like a "Baptist" which is a misnomer if I have ever heard one.

[@roseannemaye9263]

What about when the Pharisees came to get baptized & John rebuked them & asked them what made then think they'll escape damnation? The Jews understood baptism, even if it wasn't in Jesus' name yet & they knew what it meant.

[@user-uf8kp2lu7i]

Former member of an instrumental coc and bible college graduate. Now athiest/agnostic. Why can't two people who want to know the truth come to an agreement on what the bible teaches? Where is the holy spirit? Why can't god show these men a common truth?

[@deebrown4615]

First blessing and prayers for true spiritual understanding The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” If one does not "confess, repent, be baptized" from believe in Jesus' command - they have not obeyed Jesus and God's wrath remains on them.

[@sapphonymph8204]

One would have to try very hard to not understand what you said.

[@jamesfitch4569]

Amen deebrown❤!

[@dwbid42]

"Faith alone is faith in everything the believer is commanded/ instructed to do. Faith is not undefined, or open to each one's interpretation. Faith is doing exactly what Christ says to do." ????????? Nonsense faith is NOT having faith in everything we're commanded to do. That is ridiculous. Talk about a WORKS religion that sums it up nicely. Have you ever heard of the definition of crazy? It's doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. God had obedience required in the O.T. (Law) which was impossible for anyone to obey PERFECTLY so what does he do he abandons that Law, after sending Jesus down to be the PERFECT sacrifice for our sins and then according to you he turns around and institutes another even tougher obedience LAW (1,050 commands in N.T. - and Laws like this to obey PERFECTLY Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. If we're to be in his presence we must be perfectly righteous as He is and that's why Christ's righteousness had to be imputed to us. However y'all don't think Jesus was capable in and of himself to save us and that we have to add our sinful works to his perfect sacrifice. Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW. ---- "One can NEVER establish biblical belief without fulfilling what Christ says to do by Faith. Trey, does not understand that faith implies understanding of God's expectation of EVIDENCE of "said belief". Faith is not SUBSTANTIATED unless, we accept what God tells us and DO EXACTLY THAT." NONSENSE!! So YOU serve a God that needs to see your faith substantiated (works) in order for him to know that you have faith. According to you God can't tell if your faith is real unless you're doing something (be baptized etc). So that must mean that according to you everyone in all history that has been baptized has been saved as that's all that God has to judge a man by. Do you realize how ignorant that is?? Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: SHEW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS. Abraham did WORKS but what did God credit him righteousness for?? Yeah BELIEVING. ---- Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. This is a large step from confession. However I expect to see Peter and the disciples when I get to heaven! Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT: 100% we have to repent!! Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; 100% we have to continue to believe and PUT OUR FAITH IN JESUS (NOT OUR WORKS) but most of us won't even do that PERFECTLY. Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Obeying from the heart is not baptism and works but is believing and keeping our faith in Jesus. Jhn 3:36 He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that BELIEVETH NOT (OBEYETH NOT) the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Notice how the KJV translators translated this. Do you think they didn't know that "believeth" could have been translated "obeyeth not"? By believing you ARE OBEYING. Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that WE MIGHT WORK THE WORKS OF GOD? Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is THE WORK of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Belief is THE work so upon believing you have A LIVING FAITH! THE is a small word in verse 29 but it's very important as the following verse shows: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 1Jn 3:23 And THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, That WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jhn 3:36 He that BELIEVETH (πιστεύω G4100) on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that BELIEVETH NOT [obey not] (ἀπειθέω G544) the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not [obey not] (ἀπειθέω G544)? Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF (ἀπιστία G570).

[@JonathanGrandt]

Every time a passage mentions that a person is saved by faith and doesn’t mention anything else is Faith Alone.

[@brettcarter6189]

@Jonathan Grandt - The problem with that conclusion is that the Bible’s teachings on salvation aren’t comprised of only those verses, but many throughout the New Testament. Those verses are a part of the whole. The whole Bible is God’s message to us, so we can’t stop short and just ignore the verses that tell us what else to do (Acts 2:37) for salvation, and that actually compliment the faith verses. I’m talking about verses like Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-7, Romans 10:9-10, Colossians 2:11-12, and I Peter 3:21. Consider this: No one can be saved outside of Christ, right? All spiritual blessings are found “in Christ” (Ephesians 1:3). How do you get into Christ? Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27 say we are “baptized into Christ.” I can’t find any verse that says we are “faithed into Christ.” What is baptism? The word was transliterated from the Greek word “baptidzo” meaning “to immerse.” What does that look like? See the example in Acts 8:36-38 where Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. They went down into the water and he immersed (baptidzo) him. That is New Testament baptism - different from the baptism of the Holy Spirit that fell on the disciples at Pentecost. We know that water baptism for salvation was always practiced after that because after that Paul wrote to the Ephesians in chapter 4 verse 5 that there is “one baptism.” It was the same baptism administered by Philip. It was the same baptism that Paul described as a burial in Romans 6. It was the same baptism that Paul recounted submitting to in Acts 22:16 when Ananias told him “arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling in the name of the Lord.”That’s what it means to “ call on the name of the Lord.” How do we know that? Because Peter told the Jews at Pentecost in Acts 2:21 that “all who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Then after preaching Jesus to them, the believing Jews asked him in verse 37 “brethren what shall we do?” So, instead of saying “I told you already, you call on the name of the Lord,” he explained to them what that means in verse 38 by saying “Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” The response to the gospel is as plain and easy as that. Read the verses I quoted. Read the surrounding text. Read it with the heart of a child (Mark 10:15), and not through the lens of any past teachings. If you have an honest heart, you’ll see the truth. I pray that you will.

[@lindahutchens8612]

not faith alone; james 2:24.

[@DannyLoyd]

what type of faith? a dead faith? or obedient faith? The demons believe, so they must be saved? James 2. In Acts 2 they believed in V37 yet they were not saved. We are saved by faith when we are baptized into Christ Gal 3:26-27

[@lindahutchens8612]

@@DannyLoyd Needs to be an obedient faith and I am baptized into Christ and the Lord added me to his church (Romans 16:16) after I obeyed the gospel.

[@lindahutchens8612]

@@brettcarter6189 The churches of Christ salute you; Romans 16:16 and of course I agree with all you said.

[@robertgomezjr2640]

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. I Corinthians 7:19 NKJV Using the scriptures to Illuminate verses. Baptism is nothing if you do not believe.