Take Two Aren't Being Straight With Us...

This is a surprisingly serious story. Take Two are not telling players what's going to happen to Kerbal Space Program 2. It's in early access, but as no developers.
Join us at bellular.games for early access content, 20 editions of 'Loading Screen' a month and to support our team!
Sources:
esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN
/ grace2ek_today-was-the...
www.gamedeveloper.com/busines...
www.ign.com/articles/take-two...
store.steampowered.com/news/a...
• Kerbal Space Program 2...
forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/...

[@BellularNews]

Join us at bellular.games for early access content, 20 editions of 'Loading Screen' a month and to support our team!

[@Haelda]

if I want loading screens I'll boot up starfield

[@cn8412]

I'll give you a like and a comment instead. That should do the job as well as subscribing, I think.

[@RichardPhillips1066]

Its not just this game, there's quite a few dead unfinished games, still being sold on steam, I got burnt myself

[@SpecialForce89]

please don't take offence to this but being hooked on the algorithm isn't going to help you buddy, people do not care. your videos are viewed for the information alone. If was you i really would not let KZbin control me, every video on this platform is filled with the same crap, people don't like being told or guilt pressured into things we did not choose seems like your one step away from goofy thumbnails, honestly just do your own thing be unique you'll get the audience you desire.

[@SpecialForce89]

@@cn8412 🙄

[@Lorifel0]

I think we need a special status in Steam for the games like KSP 2. In addition to "Early Access" and "Released" statuses lets add "Development Stopped" badge. It will mean "The game is unfinished, development stopped. What you see is what you get. Buy at your own risk".

[@tsm688]

This, among all the histrionics I'm seeing, actually makes sense. A great big stop sign on publishers that try this bad tactic.

[@Sorain1]

Seems fair to me. A solid warning that puts it on the potential buyer to not ignore the clear sign for the situation.

[@BillyBob-kj4qq]

This is better than finding a cool game, and reading the reviews say that the devs abandoned the game.

[@tsm688]

@@BillyBob-kj4qq a col game will remain a cool game.

[@BillyBob-kj4qq]

@tsm688 an incomplete game is a game than can never be finished. A cool idea doesn't equate to a good experience. Otherwise this wouldn't even be a topic. You're on steam, you see a cool looking game, and all the reviews say "don't buy. It's buggy and has been abandoned", and you say it's still cool? I see you everywhere on KZbin. Take a breather. You don't need to reply to EVERY comment.

[@JohnMichaelson]

I feel bad for the original KSP1 devs seeing their IP treated this miserably. It did and still does mean a lot to a lot of people.

[@AshAsmodeus]

I feel bad for the original devs... first their initial publisher sells their assets without them knowing and then Take2 just cuts and runs whilst still trying to sell the corpse of the game.

[@simpson6700]

It really sucks, i tried getting into Juno New Origins, but it's just not the same without the goofy green frog people getting all excited while they are in super deadly space rockets that barely hold together.

[@shaynegadsden]

​@@AshAsmodeustheir initial publisher was Take2, Private Division is also a T2 subsidiary

[@cy-one]

@@shaynegadsden Iirc, they initially self-published for a while.

[@Coconut-219]

They did sell it, so - while I don't blame them entirely - I'm not exactly sympathetic. They chose this path.

[@Jan12700]

Because of KSP 2, I have now submitted a complaint to the German consumer protection agency. Let's see if I get anything back.

[@adamk.7177]

With your internet speeds, I hope it gets there in the next month

[@Jan12700]

@@adamk.7177 KEKW

[@realiascailt]

@@adamk.7177real, im having internet problems for 5 days now. My mobile connection is shit too, E in a city of 120k people…

[@velvetdraws3452]

@@Jan12700 is german internet that bad? i gotta know

[@DawnOfMutilation]

@@velvetdraws3452 pray you are not in a rural area, cities are fine .)

[@fearan9406]

Steam should step in, say they have abused early access, and take it down

[@chrishoppner150]

I know early access is very much a caveat emptor market, but god dammit, this sucked so much. I want a refund.

[@simpson6700]

@@chrishoppner150 there were so many red flags, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[@melandor0]

Steam denied my refund because I've owned the game for over two weeks.

[@Xyler94]

@@melandor0 That may be the automated system. Keep trying and get an actual human being. I once got a game I owned for 21 days refunded, not even an Early Access game, because I said the game glitched and I didn't want it anymore.

[@Steinhagen75]

Steam is unlikely to do anything, they are pretty clear with the language they use detailing their policies regarding early access. We agree to these policies the second we purchase these early access title so we basically signed over any right to legally complain. It’s infuriating.

[@GreenAppelPie]

That is ridiculous. It shouldn’t even be listed for sale

[@TheAtkey]

I'm not going to buy it but I don't think it should be unlisted if someone else wants to. Shouldn't be allowed to list it as early access should have a category listing like "incomplete game development suspended"

[@sugarflame1833]

They should just make it free and refund the people that paid for it

[@TheAtkey]

@@sugarflame1833 They should but they won't. From a games preservation standpoint you should be able to get it but if you're going to have to pay for it there should be a big warning this is an unfinished game that likely never will be.

[@fleetadmiralj]

I mean, if people want to buy it, then fine. But don't still have it listed as early access as if it is going to keep getting updates.

[@TheAtkey]

@@fleetadmiralj Agreed Steam and other services need a "Development suspended" tag or warning.

[@dek5775]

Imagine killing a horse then asking it to get up and walk

[@Cam_Wight]

it's like selling a ride on a dead horse for sure

[@MERLK2]

First time in project managment? ;)

[@timaltstadt824]

Considering that it is Take Two, this is nothing surprising.

[@kukuhimanputraraharja8084]

i can't imagine what would happen to all the dev studios currently under take 2 management...

[@palecaptainwolfkayls8499]

Anyone got a video name I could look up if I wanted to know more?

[@bigfutus]

Classic Take Two

[@BlueZest]

Take2's Two CEO's got $72,350,718 in bonuses in 2023.

[@Infernal_Elf]

Yeah and he is a majority owner of take 2 interactive also with controlling share. and he dont like games at all only money and power.

[@criticallard2090]

72 million?! The average citizen is lucky to make 100K in a year. CEOs are so damn dirty.

[@oliverheflin7803]

@@criticallard2090but how will they buy their yachts if they don’t have that money?!? There’s nothing more important in life than a $100M+ yacht. They reeeeeeeeeeeeeally need the money!!!!

[@RYTG]

take2 ceo is basically the devil, were all screwed

[@mexicanbanjo9325]

@@oliverheflin7803Won’t someone ever think of the shareholders?!

[@TripleOmega]

If there really is no developer the steam page could fall under false advertisement in many countries as it makes promises about the future.

[@joshallen128]

Well play devil's advocate I mean there are games out there with no developers and it's just strictly publishers

[@frodo9649]

@@joshallen128 There is still a difference between a released game that is still sold after the development cycle and an early access game with roadmap on the steam page. I wouldn't have any issue with KSP2 still being sold on steam if there was a clear disclaimer that development has stopped.

[@joshallen128]

@@frodo9649 even complete games don't work in second or third generation after they are released in newer operating systems and yet they're being sold

[@MadsenTheDane]

@@joshallen128 Early access implies that the game is being worked on by developers which would make it false advertisement indeed

[@danilooliveira6580]

the problem is that even if they are not working on it right now, they can claim they are restructuring the development and will continue development shortly... and then just sell the IP and never do it.

[@Moleculor]

1:38 WARN is a Federal law, applicable in the entire USA. Imprecisely, it's involved when at least 50 people are losing their jobs in a company of 100 employees or more. Take-Two has more than 100 employees, and 70 people lost their jobs. (There are other situations where WARN applies, but this appears to be the one that applied here.)

[@Darien_England]

God I hate these big companies making horrifying decisions.

[@Rozarez213]

more like greedy decision. they know its bad, but they didnt care since they are greedy af.

[@nanohatakamachi1066]

Horrifying? It's traumatic.

[@balsalmalberto8086]

@@nanohatakamachi1066 Traumatic? It's depressing.

[@karimshebeika8010]

@@balsalmalberto8086 Depressing? It's infuriating.

[@hitekkaifighter1825]

@@karimshebeika8010infuriating? It’s EVIL 👿

[@terrythegnome2408]

Its the private equity model, buy a company, get as much short-term capital as possible, ie releasing games too early, then dissolve the company. Its the new American way. The top private equity firms make more money than amazon. It's an excellent business model for those at the top. Rinse and repeat and let the bodies hit the floor.

[@Ylyrra]

Asset-stripping for the modern age.

[@DuOpig]

End stage capitalism. Where the only source of profit left is to eat yourself

[@JimSting]

Yep. Another reason why capitalism is a fundamentally flawed system.

[@shieldphaser]

Mm, wish it didn't have to be this way, but alas it is cheaper to buy new cows to milk to death than to just take care of the ones you got.

[@CoperliteConsumer]

It is not the American way at all. This a very old parasitic form of business totally foreign to the new world. This sickness destroyed Europe and stripped it of all it's value and then fled here and we are finally where Britain and Germany were in the 1920's. Ironic it takes about 100 years before lending culture collapses a once healthy people and land.

[@youtubevanced4900]

I managed to get a refund by writing a detailed description of the current situation and quoting Australian consumer laws. I bought it around Christmas time. Only had 6 hrs of play time. Game was absolutely garbage. Steam need to step up and refund everyone and take the money back from T2. Punish them.

[@davidhines7592]

its like selling a car without any bodywork and not telling them the company making the bodywork has been liquidated, and the staff fired or 'redeployed'.

[@actually5004]

It happens, good thing you didn't buy a Fisker Karma.

[@stevenneeley1089]

It's even worse than your example. They sold the car with no body work and DIDN'T EVEN TELL THE CONSUMERS that the bodywork staff don't exist. Just a wall of silence. You can still buy the car though and the sticker still says that it'll have bodywork later.

[@actually5004]

@@stevenneeley1089 So like full self driving in rural areas, gotcha.

[@JonBrase]

Nah... They sold a car with *only* bodywork and no drive train.

[@renealbrechtsen9743]

It's Take Two. I'm not expecting anything at all from them.

[@ideaalted1554]

The biggest problem was hiding the fact they were linked to the game.

[@xerxes8632]

@@ideaalted1554 I won't buy anything they (Take Two) are involved with.

[@trevorvogel8132]

Acknowledging that they have ceased work on it would decrease the perceived value of their product. So as usual, decency is not incentivized.

[@sciencecompliance235]

If they've had talks to sell the IP to another studio, then the game is still technically in development. People just need to be more judicious about buying something as complex as a video game, especially in a state where you're told it might never be finished, and stop buying into the hype. It really is like leading lambs to slaughter. People are so frikkin' dumb it's crazy.

[@Schwing27]

It breaks my heart what happened to KSP2. It had so much potential.

[@ethanrandall3005]

No, it didn't. The developers for the sequel were forbidden from even talking to the original devs, yet forced to recycle the original source code into the new project to "speed up development", yet, in doing so, tried to build this game on an already failing foundation. They failed as soon as they started.

[@joshallen128]

​@@ethanrandall3005yeah they should have made ksp2 open and free to the public

[@KrakenIsMahB]

it had a lot of promised potential and all the graphical improvements, but underneath it had more issues and spaghetti code than previous one.

[@Schwing27]

@@KrakenIsMahB Very true. Promised potential is what I should have said.

[@XBluDiamondX]

@@ethanrandall3005 The original developer for KSP 2 didn't exactly have a favorable reputation to begin with as they pushed out a ton of mid or worse games with the sole exception of Planetary Annihilation. The shit-tier talent wouldn't have been able to do anything noteworthy even if they had the ability to confer with the original devs.

[@Kidna]

I personally believe that any product (software or hardware) without active support (spare parts, repair chain, update cycle) should be abandonware/open source by law.

[@Azaelris]

I mean yea that works for really old software. But for old games like resident evil which you can still buy and play on steam. I dunno

[@chefcc90]

I wish I could get paid for not doing work...

[@thebra]

Have you tried being a politician?

[@Rose.Of.Hizaki]

@@thebra topkek

[@racingraptor4758]

Become a politician or DEI consultant. Money for literally nothinh unles you count making peoples lifes worse

[@Gingerbred_Hed]

Apply for take two

[@greenhowie]

The secret ingredient... is crime

[@Fantic1980]

Tribes 3 is also in the same boat. Early access, 50% off, but abandoned to work on their next project.

[@Ashen_Night116]

Not even 3 months in, and they abandoned it, that's a genuinely impressive level of uselessness.

[@webkilla]

@@Ashen_Night116 and sad too - I liked tribes 2.

[@kalskirata42]

does Tribes 3 still have a development studio/team tied to it, instead of just a publisher?

[@whendricso]

Hi-Rez should just sell or abandon the IP. They have botched two major Tribes games through incompetence now and veterans like me are sick of Tribes being treated with contempt by that greedy company.

[@AceStrife]

Look what they did to my boy... As someone who literally grew up with the original Starsiege and Tribes, the game that defined my online identity.. I hate Hi-Rez with all my being.

[@vonneely1977]

"Treating customers with contempt" is pretty much the entire modern American business model regardless of whatever that business it is, so... nothing surprising here.

[@sciencecompliance235]

They keep selling bullshit, and the customers keep buying it. Who in their right mind wouldn't have contempt for such sheep?

[@johnnyricoMC]

Valve should have delisted the game as soon as the news dropped the studio was being closed. It's an early access title with the most overwhelming proof it will never be finished.

[@VintageDynamo]

Yeah, total bullshit to sell the game as an in-progress early access title when it's dead as fuck.

[@nikl.astrophoto]

It's not just the fact that they are selling the game on Steam as Early Access (which is bad enough, since the label implies development). They continue advertising promised features such as multiplayer on their own store and the Humble Store, too. You could make the (in my opinion weak) defense that early access games can fail and they can do whatever they want, as steam themselves warn you of the game potentially not getting further updates. But the development promises keep being made on platforms outside of Steam Early Access too. It IS false advertising.

[@xerxes8632]

I believe it's called "bait, and switch."

[@DFMurray]

This is like selling concert tickets at a rock stars funeral.

[@jimster1111]

reminds me of medieval engineers. i spent my hard earned cash on a game that the developers abandoned a year after launch. and now they want me to pay for space engineers 2

[@zerg0s]

Never buy early access, man. This is exactly why people have been telling you as much for years.

[@zwenkwiel816]

space engineers was pretty cool though. like it never really managed to be a full game either but there was enough foundation for mods to make it really fun. (and like even the early builds without planets and everything were worth buying IMO) not sure about medieval engineers though. never played it.

[@IcedLance]

@@zwenkwiel816 SE still gets updates, lately they've been teasing a huge update with 'precursor' technology and better npc interactions.

[@andrewgoehring9108]

Ya you got to be careful, I got Space engineers and loved it, but I've had medieval engineers on my wish list for a long time cause it never got to a place where I would have bought it and been happy as is. Space engineers 2 is still up in the air. Space engineers 1 was great even in early access and worth it. It don't mean everything will be.

[@AM-qo8sh]

@@andrewgoehring9108 yeah I was more interested in medieval engineers than space engineers so bought that first and got burned on it. Consequently I never bought space engineers and only eventually played it when it came to gamepass.

[@DOOM891]

as someone who bought KSP2 on day 1, and has been playing the original game since 2012-2013, i can say that i am pissed off. i will NEVER buy a game that's involved with T2 again. screw them.

[@japhy4]

Same here. Iv been playing ksp since 2013 and definitely have a lot of early access titles that sometimes die but this is definitely one of the worst cases of early access scamming I have ever seen. Definitely will be checking games to see if TT is behind them from now on.

[@dylanroemmele906]

Yo Ho, Yo Ho, a Pirate’s life for me!

[@KMCA779]

I was on KSP when it came out but had no faith in KSP2. I figured it was going to be a disappointing product and was waiting for positive reviews... looks like I dodged a bullet.

[@tehrickles1447]

This is exactly why the gaming industry getting infected so heavily by investors and the corporate side of things is so bad. They don't care about the backlash, none of this is going to affect their bottom line. They had already written off Kerbal as an IP and the people upset about it likely aren't seen as potential customers anymore. If anything it might get handed to a mobile dev and thrown into the pit to be forgotten to time.

[@sneezyfido]

So basically we need to write off T2

[@CoperliteConsumer]

The heart of all suffering in the English speaking world is money lending and those who profit from it are vampires.

[@wrongthinker843]

All these corporations need to be sued out of existence.

[@FranklySean]

Take2 destroys everything they touch. Don't hold your breath for GTA 6 to be good.

[@marshymoo_]

I’m sure Rockstar will not let their 2+ billion dollar game be sabotaged by take two I have confidence in rockstar

[@Coconut-219]

Judging by GTA-V's success I expected it was at-best going to be a microtransaction filled hellscape, but then a few years ago the developers came out spouting delusional commiefornian word salad and that confirmed it's going to be much much worse than that.

[@racingraptor4758]

​@@marshymoo_i dont have any since there is literally noone from old Rockstar left there. Noone who worked on previous GTA's or RDR's. And take two is gwtting more agressive (look at GTA online, GTA+, GTA++ etc)

[@sweetwill6233]

@@marshymoo_ Your confidence is misplaced. Take Two and Rockstar are not different companies. When Take Two bought Rockstar, some of the people at the top directly transferred to Take Two. The effects of this were instant, all development on singleplayer DLC was scrapped and all work sent to a different team to put it into GTAO. RDR2 was developed and at its launch it featured nearly every single bad thing about the AAA industry. A "beta" that was only available if you pre-ordered, the "beta" had a working cash shop with already inflated prices, and the moment that didn't take off, it was abandoned. No extra content for RDR2 like RDR1. The change already happened. It has only gotten worse and it will keep getting worse.

[@martindixon54]

@@marshymoo_ GTA 6 is already DOA unless your favourite part of GTA 5 was paying through the nose for the crappy online portion of the game. The single player side of GTA 6 is going to be awful (if it even exists at all) because all the genuine talent that worked on the previous titles has either walked or been pushed out.

[@Pheonixco]

Its such a miserable time to want quality sequels when Game Publishers only see IP's as trading cards to used to barter with, and not actually put money into development. Also should say the state of the game being a bad spot, is as much as newly fired devs fault, that continually did not _listen or communicate_ to the community what that community wanted from the game. With one notable dispute being that the devs thought wobbly rockets was a 'feature' not a flaw of the KSP series, when the devs for KSP 1 had tried to fix that problem for well over half of its dev cycle to make rocket physics more predictable.

[@Mic_Glow]

PoE 2 gonna be a good sequel. I think.They released like 2/3 of the campaign (to YT reviewers, not corporate game journos) and dozens of hours of other material. That said, I'm cautiously hyped.. PoE is 99.99% endgame, and endgame wasn't shown at all.

[@wobblyboost]

I don't know which is more frustrating and borderline fraudulent, paying for a broken early access game that the dev team refuse to fix, or paying for a broken early access game whose development has been outsourced to nobody at all.

[@poppyrider5541]

I can her the faint whispers of a class action.

[@nocturnalverse5739]

Release the source code and let the community handle it. FFS. Of course that won't happen. KSP 2 should have been a slam dunk. Bellular is right about how investors think. Source: I have a lot of skin in that game. if you have someone actively managing individual stocks for you, the plan isn't necessarily a long term investment in those stocks. Yay capitalism. /s

[@youtubevanced4900]

Blame Nate Simpson and the development team. Nate was involved with the developer for 7 years. How can they not of gotten the game done in that time? They didn’t even write new code for the game. It’s mostly reused code from KSP1. I wouldn’t touch any of those developers with a ten foot pole if I was looking to hire someone.

[@Khotetsu]

@@youtubevanced4900 Because Take Two banned them from talking to the original devs, yet demanded that they use the source code from KSP to "speed up" development of KSP2. They were given a car without the design documents or manual, told they couldn't talk to the mechanic, and ordered to make the new model out of the old one. And then they had people pulled from the project, the team restructured, etc. It was doomed to fail from the start, Take Two just banned them from telling us that.

[@Ylyrra]

​@@youtubevanced4900 "They didn’t even write new code for the game. It’s mostly reused code from KSP1." That comment alone shows you have no idea about software development and how that wasn't an advantage but the actual disadvantage that caused them to be unable to get the job done. A legacy codebase pushed to the limits of what the original developers could do with it is not a benefit to a new team with no institutional knowledge of the codebase, it's the millstone that drowns you. The only lack of skill this shows on the dev team's part is that they didn't turn around and leave the company the second they got those conditions imposed on them, and unfortunately that's just a case of a young team with too much optimism to realise they've been put in a no-win situation by the people holding the purse strings.

[@chrishoppner150]

Losing the forums would suck so much. There's a ton of cool stuff on there. Fan fiction, graphic novels. But also a lot of mods are only documented on their forum thread. A lot of mod-making documentation only exist on the forums.

[@joshallen128]

Is it possible to archive them

[@notjebbutstillakerbal]

​@joshallen128 that would take a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time

[@sciencecompliance235]

@@notjebbutstillakerbal No it wouldn't. You could write a script that would scrape the entirety of the forum's content.

[@TomJacobW]

@@sciencecompliance235 someone would have to do all that first, though. I’m not holding my breath.

[@sciencecompliance235]

@@TomJacobW It's not that hard to write a script to scrape an entire website like the KSP forum.

[@Geredis089]

Regarding the point you made at 7:24 about the game being "finished by people who didn't start it". I hate to say it, but I don't see how it'd be any different in the end result to what we were gonna get in all likelihood since during the initial development Take Two/PD didn't allow Intercept to talk with any of the original KSP developers while they were making the game, while insisting they build off of the original codebase (see ShadowZone's excellent dive into the development history for references). Sure, the issue'll be exacerbated by the fact that now the team is two-times removed from any of the original code basically. But it's not like it'll be a NEW problem that the game'll be suffering through if they restart development. Same stuff, different day basically.

[@TheRyulord]

Yeah, it's hard to imagine a situation in which someone interested in buying the game wouldn't just start from scratch at this point. The only real selling point is the Kerbal IP but even that isn't a must have. We've seen stuff like cities skylines completely overtake established IPs like Sim City very quickly because IP just makes a much smaller difference for niche genres like this.

[@HairyAl1969]

If they could buy the IP and the art, that would be worth it. The code I wouldn't touch with a barge pole at this point. Better to start with a clean slate

[@danilooliveira6580]

however buy the IP (if anyone is willing to pay for this overpriced flaming hot potato) will have to start from scratch, at most reuse the assets, but everything will have to be done from the beginning. but at this point it's best to just make a new IP, it's not worth paying what T2 is asking for just so you can use the little green people, even if they are a huge selling point by themselves.

[@tsm688]

@@TheRyulord what the hell even is the "kerbal IP"? Five names and a BADS bit?

[@aetheriox463]

if someone does buy the IP and continues development, the best was to salvage this mess is to restart completely, from the ground up.

[@saintg4fun829]

I hope Nate Simpson never works again, in any industry... not even dropping fries at a McDonald's.

[@emilysmite9356]

This reminds me when they tried to sue the creators of "it takes two"

[@joshallen128]

I think that was for trademark infringement

[@tsm688]

@@joshallen128 obviously, but it's so dumb. the surprising thing is they got such a vague name in the first place. Usually you have to change a letter or something on a common word or phrase, or else you'd be able to copyright "apple" and sue the produce industry

[@Gabu_]

Imagine getting access to a license to print money (Kerbal Space Program sequel) and burning it up, then pissing on the ashes. That's Take Two for you.

[@willwunsche6940]

Steam needs a "development suspended" tag for early acces

[@JPSRose]

There really needs to be a legal case brought to steam on all of these early access titles. At the very least, they should allow players a few hours to play a game as a demo, before they have to pay to even try it.

[@tsm688]

absolutely. 3 hours return time is not enough, when they fail to deliver on features promised

[@moonratt]

I've been playing games on computers since 1980 and I'm now at a place where I just assume that if a smaller, popular or not, game studio is bought by one of these large publishers, (EA, Activation, Take2 etc.) the studio and franchise are dead games walking. It's just a matter of time. Fortunately, there are plenty of smaller studios putting out great games at reasonable prices that are managing to keep the doors open with just player support vs being destroyed by the Vampire "game" companies who's soul purpose now seems to be to by an IP or Company and drain it till it dies.

[@actually5004]

I play one of the exceptions called Warframe, sold to Chinese companies not once but twice and still retaining original staff and game design even in a f2p live service game.

[@DuOpig]

Capitalism baby

[@sciencecompliance235]

Sole* purpose. Wrong grammatically, and wrong in the sense that it implies corporations have souls. Shame!

[@moonratt]

@@sciencecompliance235 Ya, I was typing while at work; I let auto-correct do its thing and just missed it. S**t happens.

[@_D4N3]

I noticed the sale, laughed and just shruged it off as corporate greed.... can't do anything else TBH.

[@Cruxxy21]

I think the thing to remember when talking about Take Two wanting to sell KSP2/KSP franchise, is that whoever buys it won’t get any of the money from the people who already bought it (Take Two already used it for the CEO super yacht fund), so I doubt they’d ever make their money back.

[@tsm688]

what the hell is the "franchise"? five names and a BADS bit? There is no franchise. The real interest is in the engine and the idea, something none of these overpaid marketing execs understands. Literally, they don't understand it. To them it looks like any other game.

[@SpinningSideKick9000]

I just assume “early access” means unfinished and likely never finished, at this point. It’s a shame that the industry perverts any type of alternative monetization into a cash grab

[@jean-naymar602]

I reached the conclusion that, in most cases, it's better to treat early access games just like normal games : Does it look like I will have fun if I buy the game and start it right now ? Yes : buy. No : move on. I also don't think that most EA games fail because of bad incentives. Amateur devs (and sometime even pros) just generally completely underestimate the amount of ressources that it takes to ship a workable, fun experience (depending on the scale of the game of course). And players do even more so. You end up in a situation where both parties are largely overestimating the likelihood of success. When devs ultimately get reality checked and the project fails, players feel betrayed. They were not betrayed per say, devs did have good intentions : they were just both being clueless.

[@tsm688]

@@jean-naymar602 Eh no... We were flat up lied to here. "we had so much fun in multiplayer" -- ksp2 dev, all of whose staff never played any form of KSP, multiplayer or not, in a game that was never multiplayer in either version

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@jean-naymar602 Then Early Access should not be a thing. This would help cut down the amount of garbage games on Steam immensely. Then again, Valve benefits from this glorified scam so nothing will be done.

[@tobbakken2911]

Btw if you haven't seen. Cities Skylines 2has now twice as much players now compared to how it was in May. People in the community are much more positive now, two big patches dropped close after each other recently.

[@joshallen128]

1 or 2

[@criticallard2090]

Paradox trying to keep it's game alive, while T2 slits KSP's throat... T2 needs to sell the IP if they're going to kill it.

[@Kingofdragons117]

@@criticallard2090 I won't applaud Paradox for doing the bare minimum tbh.

[@notjebbutstillakerbal]

​@@criticallard2090 They won't. As a fictional ceo once said: "It's MY IP to sit on and do nothing with!"

[@tsm688]

@@notjebbutstillakerbal what even **IS** the kerbal IP? five names and a BADS bit? Anyone could replicate the kerbal magic by changing things even slightly. The real thing we're missing is an improvement on the KSP1 engine. As wonky as it is, what it did is a tough nut to crack in any engine. We had all the hard science rocket stuff *and* the easy walking around and interaction which comes with a name-brand engine. And -- this is the tricky bit -- it happened **AT THE SAME TIME**. Not a switch between "rocket mode" and "everything else mode" as most developers would compartmentalize it. You could do real things when you were flying around, and you could do real things when you were walking around. It was the same.

[@Corvus.2606]

based on insider information that was revealed by other youtubers, it's evident that any developer that were to buy KSP2 would need to completely refactor the codebase, as Private Division management essentially forced intercept to use the KSP1 codebase. it wouldn't be as sinple as just developing colonies, it would need full redevelopment to fix the bugs inherent in the original codebase.

[@tsm688]

nobody required insider information to realize this. it's very obviously ksp1 with a reskin.

[@Corvus.2606]

@@tsm688 the insider info was that it was management that wouldn't let them rebase, it was doomed from the outset because of poor decisions and only hiring junior devs who didn't know which project they were coming on to, so they didn't get ones interested in the game. Not to mention that they were forbidden from speaking to the KSP1 dev team.

[@zwenkwiel816]

they should just stop doing early access entirely, either make something worth selling or do a free beta.....

[@VirtualDomain]

There are some notable exceptions (like Satisfactory with their stellar community managers and devs that actually listen to feedback) but yes i agree with you... Sad state of gaming these days

[@Dajudge06]

More like projects with these big publishers should be denied. Early access is supposed to help fund these smaller devs that don't have these massive publishers backing them. A lot of great projects have come out of early access, but these scumbag publishers are abusing it for their own bad decisions to get it out asap.

[@XBluDiamondX]

If a publisher with the resources to develop AAA titles try to do something underhanded like early access, you should assume the game's going to be total shit. Take Two has enough resources where it doesn't need Early Access at all. Now, IMO, no Early Access title should be trusted as even small developers can be largely incompetent.

[@JimSting]

Or release a limited demo version for free, like game devs used to do back in the day.

[@Infernal_Elf]

Yeah early access should be illegal for Big companies. only free beta. and not beta right before launch wich is only for advertisment.

[@RobbieG17]

The only problem with the KSP2 sale for the "Steam Summer Sale," is that you can program a sale so far in advance. The summer sale price had been planned for a while, just really shitty timing.

[@lichbane01]

And yet people will eat up GTA VI.

[@RobbieG17]

@@lichbane01I’m sure they’ll make their money back on it. But I’m glad I decided I didn’t care about it well before I heard rumours of the price 😆

[@LegendaryGodKing]

Well, time for the community to make Human space program. Start from scratch, use none of the original ksp code, open source, and be transparent.

[@tsm688]

And this is the part where everyone learns just how hard all the stuff HarvestR did actually was :)

[@aetheriox463]

@@tsm688 was it hard? sure, but that doesnt excuse take 2.

[@tsm688]

@@aetheriox463 absolutely not. but it may be difficult to duplicate.

[@William0271]

The only way that KSP continues is if a new company buys the IP and makes a whole new game. From a business perspective, there is no reason to purchase such a hated product with a bad codebase.

[@aetheriox463]

If someone does do that, i think it would be hella funny if they called it "KSP 2: What should have been!"

[@kyzerbuhnzi6403]

@@aetheriox463KSP 2: Take 2

[@San_Vito]

Although I don't think it will happen, it's also technically possible that Take-Two assigns the IP to another development studio to continue with the current mess. But then again, if that's what they wanted, they wouldn't have closed this studio in particular...

[@boris2581]

As a long time player of KSP1 I bought the sequel straight as it was released in EA. Trusting the company to deliver. Never ever will I buy something from Take 2, never

[@cojo9656]

This situation has me incredibly bummed out. I am a hardcore KSP fanboy, won't deny it. That being said, I am never buying another Take 2 related game. This includes Civilization 7, and GTA 6.

[@ashj8998]

Why do you find this so strange when you didnt find it strange Microsoft et all closed a bunch of studios they bought but made no attempt to sell them and recoup the millions spent, clearly they are IP hoarding, the best we can hope for is new IP from small indies and consign these mega corps to the past

[@om58499]

Because none of their games are in early access while selling them

[@sweetwill6233]

Some of the shit Microsoft abandons is so odd. Like they are still selling Rise of Nations, the spin off sequel made a few years later, Rise of Legends is completely abandoned and they don't give one fuck about it. It is the same damn IP. I don't even think they realize they own that.

[@ashj8998]

@@om58499 just a next step in the decoupling of creatives from their "products", expect much more of this

[@joshallen128]

​@@sweetwill6233yeah didn't they buy rise of Nations in 38 studios bankruptcy

[@Iggysdust]

I'm new to steam, new to understanding how development teams work, I was probably a bit of a basic ass gamer. A friend of mine got their degree in game development and I've loved learning about all of this thanks to them, it's what got me into even being a supporter of this channel and enjoying you wonderful folks in bellular and these comments. All that being said, THIS is something I would not have understood, like how messed up this all could be, 2 years ago. It feels super scummy. Super super scummy. Gross

[@actually5004]

Has this friend of yours taught you any thing about dark patterns? They're a lot older than 2 years.

[@nathan9903]

One Publisher employee to update the store page 😂😂 so glad i bought ksp 1 last week having a blast with mods to make it look ALOT better

[@buzzdodson3835]

It's important to know that according to ex intercept employees for KSP2, stated on the intercept games discord, this sale was put in the books months before the closure of the studio was announced. And the sale is based on the publisher, Private Division, not KSP2 itself. That being said, yes the game should not be listed on steam at all given its current state.

[@Sivick314]

how is steam allowing this to be on early access? early access to what, NO ONE IS WORKING ON THIS! it will never be finished!

[@lycanwarrior2137]

Tons of Early Access games on Steam are like this. This one isn't unique unfortunately.

[@RastrKrok]

May i also start a kickstarter, and then leave with money?

[@tsm688]

by this point it's tradition.

[@lycanwarrior2137]

That's what Steam Early Access has become essentially. Anyone buying Early Access games on Steam is by default an "investor" in that title.

[@Domonian]

It would be easier for them to scrap the game and start from scratch. The game they have is based on the first game's code, which is AWFUL. This, of course, was pushed by publishers and whatnot, because they don't seem to understand game development. So we're left with an unfinished shell of the first game with some pretty graphics and nowhere to go from here. I can only dream that some other game fills the "plug and play" niche of KSP, and provides the experience that KSP2 promised. It may take a couple of decades, and it's truly heartbreaking.

[@actually5004]

Real life has a few openings now that Boeing has hit the wall.

[@kryskiller666]

Loved the original game and played the living shit out of it on Steam - glad I didn't get tricked into buying the sequel. It should be illegal to release an early access game that you don't intend to finish, same with taking all devs from it and leaving it intentionally unfinished. Wouldn't surprise me if certain countries had legit grounds for a lawsuit over it. If you bought it and Take Two did this without your knowing but Steam and Take Two refuse to refund you, you might be able to take them to court for it. Now you pile up hundreds of players together for it, and Take Two is in trouble.

[@vexaurora]

KSP and Cities Skylines are 2 of my favourite games, it's been rough.

[@joshallen128]

Yeah I don't like using the paradox launcher for cities skylines

[@XBluDiamondX]

@@joshallen128 The Paradox Launcher is Cities Skylines' least of its problems.

[@DanksterPaws]

Hey..l think CS2 is getting better atleast.

[@Shadow__133]

@@DanksterPawsLike 2 fps better? 😂

[@DanksterPaws]

@@Shadow__133 Yes

[@sabokizi]

Sounds like something that should be illegal. Early access implies at least in the mind of the customer that its in development and is expected to release in the near future. This is at least how I interpret early access. I know there are a lot of titles that enter early access and feel like never release (like dayz). Still makes no sense that this would be allowed by steam

[@tsm688]

Especially the lying part. They said they HAD MULTIPLAYER. They didn't have anything. 10 million and they made NOTHING but a few buildings and some music

[@lycanwarrior2137]

There are tons of Early Access games on Steam like this. It's basically the Kickstarter model where scams are rampant and there is no guarantee whatsoever of ever getting a finished product.

[@the_babbleboom]

reminder that take 2 owns rockstar and GTA think even just once before buying

[@criticallard2090]

I'm passing on GTA6. Tried 5 and wasn't into it. Not my kind of game. Won't be touching another T2 game. Not GTA, not XCOM, nothing.

[@tsm688]

I think the intersection between players who own KSP, and players who own GTA, isn't great. On the one hand you got a space simulator with cartoon characters, on the other you got crime and hyperviolence. Not to mention rockstar and gta are two rather successful things. So it takes a hell of a lot of explaining to an outsider why that's a bad thing.

[@aetheriox463]

@@tsm688 i think anyone can see that a company forcing employees to release an unfinished game, letting them work on it for a year, then firing them just before a major patch, while still selling the game on steam is a bad thing.

[@tsm688]

@@aetheriox463 doubtless part of that strategy was about keeping us in the dark, because nobody knew any of that shit until it was way too late to get a refund.

[@SlavTiger]

take 2 is on my blacklist alongside ea

[@davidnoble6900]

It comes down too exec's that don't have a clue what it takes to make games like these work and and the time and energy it takes to make it work right.

[@SkorjOlafsen]

In this case they didn't even care. The studio was closed because T2 decided to streamline their organization ahead of GTA6 releasing, to avoid distraction for the execs. That meant getting rid of Private Division, regardless of the state its games were in. Don't want to spend 5 minutes of a meeting discussing something that's not on the GTA6 cash shop, after all.

[@TheRenofox]

From what I've heard, it wasn't even in their interest to make a good game. If they spend money on the game, it has to sell enough to pay off the investors and then make a profit for them, but if they half-ass the product they can just close the studio while keeping the money AND the IP. It's a perverse incentive, and the reason EA has been buying and killing off studios for decades now.

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

What does it take to ruin a perfect IP ? It *Takes Two* ...

[@troller9838]

See, this is why the OG devs shouldn't of been sellouts. If they didn't sell the IP to Take Two this situation would of never happened.

[@joshallen128]

Then take two wouldn't have published the game and we wouldn't have had the first ksp in the first place it's the w deal with in order to get what you want out

[@troller9838]

​@@joshallen128 KSP was an indie game originally. Take Two only came in as publisher later on, buying the IP in 2017. The game was certainly popular enough to stand on its own without Take Two.

[@alexsiemers7898]

The original devs left Squad not long after 1.0 released, and the rest of the team didn’t really care for the game since Squad wasn’t even a game studio at first.

[@tsm688]

They wanted money, not to spend the rest of their lives developing KSP. Their odds at developing another one hit wonder was small.

[@Azaelris]

​@@tsm688agreed they probably wanted to expand on new ideas.

[@galliumgames3962]

My very 1st week at university had my professor hype up this game and got me immensely hyped too, and my very last week at university had saw the game get shitcanned. Wow 😢

[@R0BB0CK]

Bit of a sucky move from T2 to try rake in more EA money before palming the IP off on some other house - who will now not be able to sell the finished product to folk who bought the EA copy and paid T2. Game needs temporarily removed from sale until a new team owns it - then put back on EA with a new roadmap.

[@tsm688]

steam is not a court judge. the game exists and is being sold. preorders were sold down the river, but new customers aren't being lied to. unless they left all the old ads up.

[@aetheriox463]

@@tsm688 which they are doing. the roadmap is still on the steam page, and "key features to come during early access" is a line on the description. they havent updated the page to reflect the fact that development has stopped, and are pulling in cash through it.

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@tsm688 Steam should be, it is their STORE after all. They are knowingly selling a defective product.

[@Setsuraful]

This is exactly why I don't buy early access games. According to the information I could find, its sold 616k units and made $24m... all for the publisher to scrap the dev team and most likely leave it as a game that will never fully released and stay in EA forever. Somehow that is just a perfectly acceptable thing to do according to Valve.

[@Wedgenet]

Vavle has a responsibility here too. They should either suspecnd sales of the game, or add a boatload of disclaimers about the true situation, instead of the lies that are on the Steam Store page.

[@Ph33NIXx]

I really liked the feel of KSP2.. what i looked most forward to was multiplayer and colonies

[@tsm688]

they didn't merely "promise" multiplayer. They said they ALREADY HAD multiplayer built into the code. That's how they sold everyone on preorders. But of course they lied.

[@Ph33NIXx]

@@tsm688 yeah... from what I've heard - the MP team was the first to get laid off.. even though they were super close to get it working 😭

[@KuariThunderclaw]

Here's the most disturbing thing: If they're selling the IP... that means the money from the early access is likely going to go into Take Two's pocket rather than the developer's, which is what early access is SUPPOSED to be for. Definitely the kind of thing that makes me support regulation...

[@th33juggl3r]

Star Trek Infinite is also on sale on steam, despite being unfinished and abandoned by the devs.

[@davidrymwar5812]

Well. This is heartbreaking. I was really looking forward to this.

[@atomixfang]

People should totally be able to refund early access games that are not in development anymore.

[@klioseth4336]

You can, if you've played it for less than 3h. Early access games can vary from "barely a prototype" to "pretty much completed".

[@jean-naymar602]

I'm sorry, but why should steam be responsible of your gambles ? The whole point of EA is that you get the game as-is (i.e. Early, y'know) without the assurance that it'll be what you expect : The game might change focus, the dev might scrap features, add some others, they might run out of money and not be able to complete development etc. That's the only distinguishing feature between EA games and full-fledged games... Remove that and you might as well just remove the concept of EA entirely. Now of course, a side effect of EA is you might get scammed by devs that never intended to actually deliver what they said they want to do. But you should know what you signed for. You put your eggs in the wrong basket. It's not the end of the world. Next time don't buy EA unless your completely fine with the game in its current state. It's not that hard...

[@yares3310]

Totally agree with you

[@aetheriox463]

@@jean-naymar602 because of that exact reason: its a gamble. if the game remains unfinished permanently, sure its *on you* for buying it, but also you cannot expect that to happen. steam's service should give you satisfaction, and if youre not satisfied, you can refund. many games in early access abuse steams current refund policy, either by being marginally longer than 2 hours, or they have some level of development until people own it for 2 weeks, then stop so that you cant refund it. its scummy practice, and early access isnt intended to be used this way. allowing people to refund games with the early access tag no matter what reduces this shit. gambling is not a good thing, and when people buy early access games, they do so so that the game can improve. if the game doesnt improve, why shouldnt they be allowed to take their money back?

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@jean-naymar602 Or how about Steam/Valve actually providing some quality control and oversight on their store so that these types of SCAMS don't happen so often??? If this happened on another PC game store, there would be massive outrage by the "gamers"...

[@invaderjoshua6280]

Just a reminder to people under the rating section there is a flag icon top flag a product and it has a fraud option.

[@raggon88]

same happens with Mondongo 2 from KnekroStudios, 50% off but abandoned to work on their next project

[@frenkzors]

It seems pretty obvious that in a situation like this, a the game in question should be (at least temporarily, until things are rectified and back on track) blocked from being sold. Im not a fan of completely delisting it, but it being sold like everything is peachy is quite literally a scam.

[@iloveplayingpr]

Fuck their greed.

[@AD3SPG]

Give us money for a nft title basically or less.

[@flyinghobo888]

Went to school with Grace, she is an amazingly talented producer, really knew her stuff. Amazing folks are facing layoffs every day, this industry is rough as hell. Thanks for covering this stuff!

[@last8exile]

Steam still selling canclelled and unplayable early access game called Shallow Space. Developers vanished at 2017. After 3 years they came back and promised that they finish the game. 1 year later they cancel the game comepletly. All this time the game is unplayeable and sold on steam. And probably never be delisted and refunded.

[@joshallen128]

Community fan patches will save the day

[@darknetworld]

Should be delisted? There should be some regulation about no studio there on steam right? One reason how they get the money transfer and who is in charge of the money?

[@SkorjOlafsen]

Officially everything is fine. According to T2 the game is still under development, and the studio has not been closed. Much like 2K Marin was never officially closed when everyone was laid off in 2013. "We have top men working on it. Top. Men."

[@КГБКолДжорджКостанца]

are you being straight with me? ARE YOU BEING STRAIGHT WITH ME? DO I LOOK LIKE CHARLIE BROWN!!!???

[@tehjamerz]

Why would valve care? The 2 in CS2 represents the number of devs

[@Gnollface]

Belular news: one of the few remaining gaming journalism sources worth my attention. Keep up the good work, you keeping game devs and players on their toes is important for a healthy industry!

[@ronaldmahan8417]

This reminds me of when Riot bought Radiant entertainment and then basically shitcanned stonehearth. The MP is still buggy the game is not optimized etc. Did i mention this was a early access title that raised a lot of money?

[@FightingFurball]

it also started as a kickstarter game

[@Steelwall44]

God, I fucking loved that game. It was also what ended my support for Early Access

[@ronaldmahan8417]

@@Steelwall44 Same

[@Ylyrra]

Pretty similar "but worse" what with the multiple swapping of dev teams. Stonehearth was already in a technical mess with the original devs in place, they never did solve the broken pathfinding for the voxel build order, no matter how much they simplified it down from the original concepts... they just kept adding more and more bugs. Every time they did another patch on it there were fewer features and it worked less reliably. Development had pretty much stalled (or at least dramatically slowed) before the acquisition IIRC. Shame because it had so much promise and charm.

[@tsm688]

the title exists and has the features they promised. not the same ballpark at all.

[@KrazzyKelsie]

Should be 99% off 🤣

[@aetheriox463]

wouldnt be worth it even then

[@capslfern2555]

100% off

[@TheNitroG1]

Steam needs to do a better job in general with delisting games that are not actually in active development but still in early access.

[@DeavtheDev]

Would be easy to rectify the situation, a new studio buys the IP Sets up a survey or something similar such as polls and have the community vote on features that want, fill out a questionnaire on why they are unhappy, take account of what needs fixed and make it happen. Most of gaming issues with gamers vs the IP is unwanted changes or lack of communication between the owners and the fans

[@Hyde472]

Only purchase a game in early access if I like it or find it acceptable in that state... but how do I know until after I buy it?

[@SkorjOlafsen]

You have 2 hours of gameplay to find the fun. Assume nothing. If the game doesn't hook you within 90 minutes or so, refund it and move on. That's what I did with KSP2 on launch day, and I was so hyped for it at the time. By 90 minutes in I had to admit to myself the actual state the game was in. The disappointment was crushing, but at least I kept my $50.

[@XBluDiamondX]

By letting other suckers buy it and give their thoughts on it afterward.

[@tsm688]

KSP1's free demo had more functionality than the entirety of KSP2!

[@gecho8848]

Big question I have is how was this game allowed to seemingly go against steams rules for early access? Apparently it's actually not allowed for games in early access to sell early access games based on future updates/content. In other words, the entirety of KSP2's marketing and kind of the whole point of ea? And I've seen so many other early access games do the same, so if the rules for early access seemingly will not be enforced and no one seems to really know what they are anyway. Why should anyone trust steam or any early access game on the platform? Oh right yeah no one should trust early access. Especially since you basically just can't refund ea games on steam anymore. This kind of stuff has destroyed ea for so many people, despite the great success of games like BG3, because those success stories are an exception not the rule and it has never been clearer that ea is inherently anti-consumer. It's sad that bad actors are so readily able to take advantage of a system designed to empower smaller devs and instead make it a detriment.

[@SkorjOlafsen]

I've never heard of Steam actually enforcing their rules. Maybe this will get enough attention to embarrass them into action, but I doubt it.

[@Coconut-219]

Yeah early-access is cooked, their policy changes and refusal to crackdown on fraud are the nail in the coffin. Public trust has been annihilated. To put it in fancy pants investment lingo: it has become "too risk adverse to sell"

[@tsm688]

That sounds pretty contradictory. If you're only allowed to show it in its complete state, what even is early access?

[@SkorjOlafsen]

@@tsm688 Basically, you're not supposed to have your roadmap on the store page itself, because you can't promise what the future will bring. Typically, the roadmap and other "forward-looking statements" are elsewhere, not part of the sales material.

[@GiblixStudio]

who knew that a company that hires the modern day Pinkertons to strongarm fans and has a long list of other amoral practices would do such a thing....

[@vaulttraveler]

I am happy, more and more people realize the gaming industry is breaking down and more and more people give indies and smaller games a chance.

[@ElZamo92]

I’m angry because the dev team was one of the very few Mexican game developers… sad to see they gutted it…

[@SkorjOlafsen]

The KSP2 dev team was unrelated to the KSP1 dev team. They were forbidden to even talk to them.

[@Azaelris]

​@SkorjOlafsen why the fuck. That's like so pointless to not allow them to communicate with the past dev team

[@SkorjOlafsen]

@@Azaelris T2 feared the KSP1 DLC wouldn't sell if it leaked that KSP2 was in development, and went to extremes to keep it secret. The kind of decision so stupid it takes an MBA.

[@lazarpro3030]

Let's Sue'em

[@actually5004]

No, you don't get your money back because early access is simply gambling- don't be a sore loser and quit gambling on companies that won't tell you the odds.

[@lazarpro3030]

@@actually5004 i dont want my money, i want to sue em for breaking ACL

[@aetheriox463]

@@actually5004 sounds like youre defending take 2 here. you sure this is the hill you wanna die on?

[@actually5004]

@@aetheriox463 "quit gambling on companies that won't tell you the odds" does that sound like defending the company or advising everyone with half a brain to not give them money?

[@tomfrakey6335]

Good on you for calling it out and making people aware

[@markguyton2868]

I think people need to give this company a "Take-Two"...