Ben Shapiro CONFRONTED By Vaush Fan On Gender

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#benshapiro #dailywire #politics

[@honk4459]

Fun caveat: Ben stepped on his own toes by saying a tree is something that demonstrates "treehood" sarcastically. Because actually, yes. A majority of things we refer to as trees are not in the same family and evolve from different kinds of plants. But they exhibit certain traits that we classify as a tree. We didn't keep their evolutionary names, we included them in a more general category.

[@honk4459]

Ope, guess I should give Vaush 3 seconds next time I think I have something to add. He pounced on the same thing 😂

[@farfetchdthegamer3810]

Same as a fish. There’s no definition for a “fish” we just clump three or so groups into “fishhood”

[@honk4459]

@farfetchdthegamer3810 Yeah, life doesn't really follow the social rules conservatives have constructed

[@justsomeguy6336]

@@farfetchdthegamer3810there is a scientific definition for fish

[@farfetchdthegamer3810]

@@justsomeguy6336 Really? Tell me please, I thought “fish” was just a way to group the three classes Agnatha, Chondrichthyes and Osteichthyes together.

[@demigloom]

Thanks Vaush and chat for all the feedback!! I've spent the past few weeks as a right-wing lolcow and it means the world that this debate & my channel got noticed outside of those circles.

[@louisthehuman6077]

You did an excellent job. Ben had to pretend to not understand the difference between characteristics being ASSOCIATED with something and characteristics OF a thing to make his arguments. It depressing that anyone would consider this a win for him but at least it demonstrates that transphobes can only "win" by being disingenuous and refusing to actually acknowledge the arguments against them.

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

Nice job, you held your own pretty well up there, I'd imagine it's difficult to dominate the conversation in an environment like that, but despite that you did pretty well. Take a sub, you've certainly earned it.

[@DrewForGames]

You’re brave for just getting up there. Public speaking is hard and you did a great job!

[@shikarinami]

You did great!!!!!

[@verager2493]

Did better than a lot of people who give it a shot, but Ben knows he's a failson, so he only goes in with a deck so stacked he won't let you touch the mic and would rather die than give up editing privilege

[@johnnafunkhouser5999]

Ben seems particularly tripped up by the question " What is a mother?"

[@flightlessflygon]

18:30 this is a dumb argument on Ben's part because the idea that the word "tree" defines "treehood" is blatantly false. We say that pine trees are "trees" but taxonomically they are actually ferns. Ben is too uneducated to realize he's making a pro-trans argument. If ferns are not biologically trees but we still refer to them as such, then trans women do not have to be biological women to be considered women.

[@Ryan_possibly]

We define trees as objects with leaves and bark and a trunk yet pine trees distinctively lack leaves yet they are still defined as trees, therefore we have expanded the definition of tree without its definition being meaningless as some trees have leaves whilst others do not we can define a pine tree as a category of tree but that doesn't exclude it as a tree I think he simply does not understand language

[@jpcote70]

Even their perspective on God in Jewish theology is centered on his fatherhood. And I don't think they define God as a biological male.

[@hourwagontoupeeferret6107]

All republicans can do is react to their own straw men.

[@historybuff1483]

A tree isn’t just a tree. Im 6-5 and have been called a tree many times. A tree can also be pixels on a screen, ink or paint on paper, etc etc just as a woman can exist outside of biological means

[@ntnt117000]

The funny thing is Ben comment about a tree is something that has tree hood is accurate. Trees are not all related so that is valid colloquial definition

[@SillyOrb]

I wonder: If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and swims like a duck, what would the B.S. man himself call the animal? This refers to a concept called "duck typing" ("type" as in "kind", not as in what you do on a keyboard) that is found in computer programming and the duck test it is based on. It is not important, if the thing you think is most likely a duck, is indeed a duck, but only that you recognise it as one to call it a duck. Same thing with women and men: if they look like one, behave like one, express themselves like one, why not call them one? It's actually really much easier with humans, as they can identify themselves to you, so you wouldn't even have to do the duck test yourself. Neat. I really don't understand the whole issue these people have. It must pay well to spread hate. I'd really like to know who he might be selling himself to. (Although I don't claim he in fact is doing that, so it isn't a conspiracy fantasy, but others are known to spread things that have been traced back to some very rich, very white, very old, very men. Makes me curious.)

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

If it's clearly a man in a dress pretending to be a woman, walks, talks, speaks, etc. We'd still call it a dude in a dress right? Bad acting and facial hair aside, let's keep it simple. Penis =man, vagina = woman. No need for confusion or debate.

[@nova1rl231]

@@ricksterbobolishious7523 what about intersex people, yknow? people born with both/parts of both? do they just not exist?

[@monkeibusiness]

I hate this "debate" shit with a passion. To go there for intellectually honest debate and finding truth is like going to the colosseum if you want to discuss the art of war.

[@tonyjohnson6775]

I would point out that on most forms and interactions you NEVER have to stipulate that you are the ADOPTIVE mother of a child because it doesn't matter and is rude.

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

All that has to be done is pointing out that people can be XY and absolutely be females and be women. There have been at least three documented cases of XY individuals giving birth. Two were naturally and unaided and the third did have medical assistance. If you have an individual that has androgen insensitivity syndrome you will have an XY individual growing up and developing female and looking like a woman. Until we were able to actually check that person's chromosomes everyone would have regarded that individual as a woman and as a female and no one would have questioned. The existence of intersex people absolutely demolishes argument and for all those people waiting to say that they're such a small population that doesn't make an argument. The size of a population does not mean that that population does not exist. There are more intersex people in this world than people that share my own blood type yet everyone acknowledges that my blood type is a blood type. Less than a percentage of the world's population has a b negative blood yet we all regard it as an actual blood type. There are more intersex people than that because intersex people make up about 1.7 of the world's population. Again that is more than twice the amount of people that share my blood type

[@historybuff1483]

Coming soon- Ben Shapiro: Why I Left the Right

[@Peter_Trevor]

Word salad with a side of, ‘Watch me compulsively play with my beard’.

[@EdLrandom]

you might think she is looking down cause she is nervous but in reality, Ben is just so tiny that even being far away she has to look down

[@Hurricayne92]

I wouldn't give the opening statement 10/10 only because you can hear the nervousness in their voice. In saying that I totally understand why they are nervous, but if I can pick it I bet Shapiro could as well and take advantage.

[@davebrown6552]

Can someone please explain what the purpose of gender surgery. If gender is not defined by genitals or hormones what is the purpose of copying sex based characteristics that are irrelevant to gender?

[@kevinskiles2033]

Some trans people prefer to have all the physical characteristics of their gender. Some don't care.

[@PK_1024]

I was watching another video, there they said "didn't he just couple of minutes ago define mother as someone doing mothering?"

[@dave2408]

Seriously what a weirdo Ben is a bit of a Diddy but what is that freak gibbering about 😂

[@badcaseofstripes]

It's sad how you can barely comprehend pretty basic concepts

[@dave2408]

@@badcaseofstripes what concept are you referring to ? I believe I have a reasonable grasp on reality where as you think a bloke can be a chick 🤣 Now that’s lunacy

[@Super-BallSharp]

​@@dave2408Appeal to the stone.

[@Allison_Hart]

Ben: "you can't have circular definitions" also Ben: says "a mother is the act of mothering" as a way to define "mother"

[@chrisflynn3315]

Ben shouldn't be allowed to talk about definitions, period. Or maybe even talk.

[@hellionshark3197]

I wish people could catch him o his bullshit and call it out in a debate. So we can see him again crying how he is more popular and leave. It's ahr to follow his bullahit when he says 123813 words a second. It's why he does these college debates. Older, more successful, surrounded by fans. the other person is already at a disadvantage. When he argues with a social equal he fumbles.

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@chrisflynn3315 Huh? what a weird statement, why shouldn't he talk about definitions

[@chrisflynn3315]

​@@luxolontamo4440you must have never actually listened to Shapiro. I'm jealous.

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@chrisflynn3315 I've listened to a lot of his stuff but I still don't get your point

[@raccoon.smiles]

As a linguistics major, it physically hurt to hear Ben fail at understanding how language works. The main tenant of linguistics is being descriptive not prescriptive. There is no wrong way to communicate as long as the other person understands what you are saying.

[@mousefire777]

CONSERVATIVE TRY TO UNDERSTAND A MAINSTREAM PRINCIPLE OF ANY SOCIAL SCIENCES CHALLENGE (IMPOSSIBLE)

[@OneEyeShadow]

No, language is handed down from God or something!

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

I constantly tell the comprehension police here on YT that. Like if you understood the comment then effective communication was achieved. Just because you don’t like how it was conveyed doesn’t make the method right or wrong.

[@MichaelDerryGameitect]

@@OneEyeShadow No, no, no. Language was in-born at creation (for two specific individuals), passed down for generations, then _scrambled and redefined_ by God when humans got too smart for their own good. Learn your scripture, young whippersnapper!

[@Kodisage]

This mindset is so weird to me. Language has rules in order to be language. The rules exist for a reason and ignoring them for the sake of peoples feelings because they don’t like being corrected is just bizarre

[@soupy_soup2]

This was hardly even a debate. He just kept interrupting her the entire time and ignoring her questions. It makes my blood boil how the only way conservatives can win an argument is to play dirty. He knows he lost, he’s just pretending he doesn’t.

[@suzannebigras7071]

An other jordan peterson. Too intelligent with little understanding of human interaction

[@deadeye8794]

The amount of words Ben can use without saying anything is astonishing

[@user-fq1ig3uy3q]

The amount of people who actually think he's saying something profound is absurd.

[@nuclearsimian3281]

That's lesson #1 in how to be a conservative. They can't stun us with science, so they try to baffle us with bullshit.

[@hellionshark3197]

It's art on its own, seriously. So much verbal Diarrhea from one person...

[@alexis7-]

8 years ago i really thought he was smart just by the way he speaks ??? and then i grew up 😃 i understood the man just spit nonsense really fast, that’s it

[@XxQozEMotoxX]

Vivek Ramaswamy does the same thing. Saying a million things, a million miles a minute doesn’t make you smarter or right.

[@delphic9021]

Ben basically described mother as someone who exhibits motherhood but then got pissy when demigloom described a woman as someone who exhibits womanhood.

[@demigloom]

This is incredibly true

[@jamestolliver9970]

I got soooo pissed at ben when I saw that. I understand in the moment it's hard to pick up on things like that and bring them back up to him but damn I was hoping they would

[@UOweMe]

He totally did... I wish the Vaush fan had caught this, oh well

[@nondescriptcat5620]

yes.

[@NoOne-ky1er]

She has got to be a biological woman is always an underlying part of the argument. "Oooh, he missed this point, So I am correct." Lol

[@Dayman90]

Ben is almost 40; what's he doing still debating college kids?

[@michaelmckeown5396]

He's not a bright lad.

[@justanidiotmk2749]

And losing... Like c'mon bro.

[@atillanandorfuri3343]

Bro had his development arrested in both height and mind at a very early age.

[@chaosflash912]

He still hasn't recovered from getting owned by Andrew Neil.

[@jochenkraus7016]

@@chaosflash912 Actually he wasn't owned by Andrew Neil. Ben did that to himself, Andrew didn't even try (or not yet).

[@alicetorrance394]

Him immediately qualifying mother as “adoptive mother” and “biological mother” exactly parallels the qualification of women as “cis women” and “trans women”

[@hydrogen3266]

Him trying to exclude trans people by strawmanning the question and yet still failing made my day. It’s not 2015/2016 anymore and people are now armed with the rhetorical skill to challenge hacks like Shapiro and tear down his “intellectual” artifice

[@MrBytorr]

I think the right direction for the debate after this point is made is to point to how definitions can change. Ben's own ideas of gender have changed. The only reason not to include trans people under those changes is bigotry, which most people aren't accepting.

[@Dino2GunZ]

No

[@Dino2GunZ]

​@@hydrogen3266no

[@Dino2GunZ]

​@@MrBytorr😂 no

[@DrHotWarLove]

It’s actually a relief to hear Ben Shapiro talk about gender instead of saying a version of the 14 words in relation to Gaza.

[@sebicmiel4221]

14 words?

[@ainmon5875]

You pinpointed why this isn’t pissing me off as much as usual. Ben being a idiot regarding linguistics is so chill compared to him justifying a genocide.

[@fluffynator6222]

Does he condemn Hamas tho?

[@Zinojn]

His facial hair makes his face just a tad less terrible to look at. I am glad someone convinced him to stop shaving.

[@minimushrom]

I mean, to be fair "Israel bad" is also a rather polemic and superficial argument.

[@nearby_emu4181]

the funny thing is that trees ARE just "things that exhibit treehood" no biological classification points to trees because they aren't a single group. Even the definition of a tree is a social construct.

[@audreydoyle5268]

Exactly. Palm trees aren't botanically trees. They are a type of grass. But they look like trees, produce products similar to trees, and are tall like trees. So, it's a palm tree.

[@RobsRuns]

😂

[@farfetchdthegamer3810]

Well, exactly. Like, what is a fish? There is no such biological thing as a fish, but socially and culturally, to humans, a “fish” is just something that exhibits fishhood

[@nondescriptcat5620]

@@farfetchdthegamer3810 do you think if we explained that in modern biological cladistic nomenclature, humans are a subset of fish to conservatives their heads would explode?

[@5fr4ewq]

​@@farfetchdthegamer3810well i mean, ur right. if we would go by clades, every reptile, mammal, birb or amphibian are fishes

[@BustDaNinja]

Honestly, she nailed it. She got Ben on the back ropes, yelling and talking over people and not answering the question. Ben looked bad. That's a win.

[@keyvonbusby6636]

It's a he; stop the cap

[@murdocniccalsbinder]

@@keyvonbusby6636bro fr said “nuh uh” to someone’s pronouns 💀

[@keyvonbusby6636]

@@murdocniccalsbinder I did lol, a "preferred" pronoun not a true one

[@demsterclippy4252]

​@@keyvonbusby6636you that bothered over em? Weakass?

[@Bonaboo]

@@keyvonbusby6636words are made up, lol there’s no such thing as a natural pronoun, dork

[@bke8073]

Ben Shapiro literally accidentally argues in favor of trans women being women in this clip lmao

[@MarcillaSmith]

Isn't his wife a neurologist? He certainly must understand there's a brain difference, and he's just doing a non-comedic version of the Stephen Colbert character to get the payday. The only way I can imagine that his argument could have a consistent internal logic is if he said that who a human is as a person, in their personality, as manufactured by their brain is irrelevant - I, Benjamin Shapiro, only see my fellow humans as baby-making factories, and they, therefore, are only male, female, and neuter, based solely upon what gametes they do or don't produce, because they are not persons to me, just a means of reproduction.

[@adamzeller7979]

​@@MarcillaSmithdamn dawg, you're trying so hard to be right, but sadly the concept of "shit in, shit out" reigns supreme as always

[@julesdalli9716]

Horseshoe grifting.

[@angelainamarie9656]

@@MarcillaSmithIs his wife a neurologist, or just a conservative loudmouth with a degree who abuses her authority for political gain.

[@muaythai3903]

Neurologist

[@hegyak]

Ben could not handle this. So he HAD to Run over the arguments and Gish Gallop.

[@heddelinpralin1481]

Ben couldn’t handle being asked what’s for dinner without gish galloping

[@Ironraven001]

Literally his response to anything. I disown him from being a Ben.

[@Amara87387]

As an adopted trans girl I agree completely with what you said at the beginning. I have a biological mother, and that’s the nicest way I can refer to her, though I prefer more distant terms like “progenitor” or “genetic donor.” I was talking with a baptist student at my college who, when they realized I was adopted, asked about my “real” mother. So I told her about my adoptive mother. She kept insisting that I should at least talk to my “real” parents. I do talk to my real parents. I talk to them every other day on average. My real mother is the one that’s cared my whole life for me. When I was a young kid, before the adoption, when my mom was still my aunt, I’d made the connection of what mothers do for their kids, and how all the things, clothes, food, baths, etc, were done for my friends by their mothers. Well she was the one who did that for me, so was she not my mother? My mother is not my biological mother. I am not a biological woman, my mom is still my mother, my adoptive mother, but my mother none the less, and I am a woman, a trans woman, but still a woman

[@nmclick]

hope you never have to deal with that baptist student, based real mother 👍

[@MrGgabber]

Except you knew what they were referring to, so why not just explain to them your thought process instead of playing that semantic game?

[@Amara87387]

@@MrGgabber oh believe me, I’ve tried.

[@amybly1400]

Lovely tribute to your mom. We know a mom when we see one, just like we should know a woman when we see one. Wishing you all the best.

[@thedude5740]

Why can't we create new words instead of attempting to redefine established terms? This stuff is adding too much confusion to what reality is. Reality should be straight forward and to the point. Man Woman Trans woman Trans man The trans identifier was an addition to the word and works magnificently, it created a new terminology. There is no confusion with that. Why is there a need to remove the transition term? Mom Dad Can be the respective person that raised you. Mother Father Are those that contributed to you being birthed into reality. These terms are simple and straightforward, simple minded people like myself, are beyond confused when attempting to interact with a society that has been programmed by an altered language.

[@quandangle9397]

ben "shapiro" EPICLY OWNED by FACTS and LOGIC

[@WiloPolis03]

ben """"shapiro""""

[@chromapid]

ben "shapiro"

[@Almost_a_hero]

Petite man boy can't handle BBC questioning. Gets scared and runs. Must watch. You won't believe what happens next.

[@farfetchdthegamer3810]

“bent ‘sharpie’”

[@julesdalli9716]

He was owned publicly, to boot.

[@soundslikemath860]

He walked directly into a trap there as well by asking someone to define woman without self reference RIGHT AFTER defining mother as someone woman who does mothering

[@connor5669]

EXACTLY. "What is a mother?" is the exact same question and makes his fallacies so obvious

[@connor5669]

You can literally do all the same rhetorical tricks to argue that biological mothers are the only type of mothers. But everyone would recognize you as a jerk.

[@ashe_xox]

@@StrapOnJondidn’t know 13 year old girls are mothers

[@_midinette_]

@@StrapOnJon a woman who becomes infertile can't be a mother? a woman past menopause can't be a mother?

[@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael]

@@_midinette_ @StrapOnJon Hey I've got a definition for "Jon" here : StrapOnJon is defined as: (Noun) An idiot who doesn't understand the ONLY language he speaks.

[@hanzohasashi4534]

Ben Shapiro: Uses Women and Female interchangeably Also Ben Shapiro: Defines woman as an adult human female.

[@gilberthamilton9312]

Ben has specifically said that his only objective in any of these debates is to make his opponents look bad. Don't ever feel bad turning the question around on him and then mocking his answer.

[@eriksvensson6054]

41

[@joocebocks8610]

"Ben Shapiro: Uses Women and Female interchangeably Also Ben Shapiro: Defines woman as an adult human female." Umm, at that point they do become interchangeable when talking about adult people. Woman is just the human specific term for an adult female, just as mare is equivalent for a female horse, cow for female cattle, hen for female chickens, etc. You can call a mare a female, or you can call it a horse, and they're both correct, but you cannot call it a woman and be correct any more than you can call a man a woman and be correct. It is accurate to say a woman is always female, but not to say every female is a woman, since non-humans can be female too.

[@hanzohasashi4534]

@@joocebocks8610 The error you've made is conflating a sociological adult with a biological adult. A "mare" is a biological adult... which means the animal is fertile. Unless you want to claim a 9 year old fertile female is a women, you must concede that you're using socially constructed legal boundaries to define woman, because it's unavoidable... woman is a sociological construct, it's used to refer to sociologically adult humans who have adopted the social category of womanhood.

[@julesdalli9716]

Kinda shows that the whole "a woman is an AHF" argument is ideologically inconsistent.

[@austindrinksfanta]

I can't do this. The person did very well but these kind of "debates" make my skin crawl

[@demigloom]

Understandable lol

[@TheDeadlyBlueWolf]

But don't you know Ben needs these type of "debates" so no adult age (Ben is almost 40 btw debating college studentds for clout) are able to give him push back. Benny needs the crowd on his side otherwise he'll get triggered and run off like he did in that Andrew Neil interview.

[@austindrinksfanta]

@demigloom You did amazing lol I just can't with the hogs clapping at Ben going "trans bad" it's disheartening

[@austindrinksfanta]

@furryfandomfan48 Yup, he's so dishonest and cowardly that I can't stomach content with him. Even with a bunch of sweaty hog freaks and one of the most protected political pundits in the world against her, demi did great

[@taliaeategg2027]

Same

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

In these “debates” they need to follow up with the same question until it’s answered. The question was “is an adopted mother a mother?” Yes or no. “If no why”. Then once that is answered move on to “why does that not apply to trans people?” But in the moment this strategy is hard to do without practice.

[@AS-iu8hr]

THIS

[@chrisflynn3315]

💯

[@Speydork666]

Because a transwoman is not a woman, and therefore not a mother. You need to be female to be a mother.

[@tactics-rx1up]

so frustrating, she said (paraphrasing) “a woman is someone that seems like a female” and he had to twist that into “a woman is someone who seems like a woman” in order to claim circularity and weasel out of it

[@Dino2GunZ]

He not wrong tho

[@tactics-rx1up]

@@Dino2GunZ not sure what that means lol ben’s response is a tautology

[@friendlyG771]

​@@Dino2GunZ he is wrong. Ben Shapiro's word salad of a response shows how hard he has to pretend to not grasp these very basic concepts. He's pretending to be ignorant, but he knows he's wrong

[@idiot528]

@@Dino2GunZ Female = feminine traited person(beyond like liking nailpolish and shit more like I want to wear skirts in public i want to do my hair i dont want to get my hands dirty like things most men wouldnt think about doing) most often that is a woman but with trans people that could be a man

[@eequalswtf6281]

Ben Shapiro only debates college students because he thinks it is easier to hide his "my balls have not dropped" voice around college students vs older adults.

[@Goatchild90]

lmao

[@darrelsapp1232]

He only debates college students because actually debating people with fully formed brains isn't something he can do successfully.

[@verager2493]

No amount of thin, whispy beard will put his voicebox in his throat instead of his nose

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

@@verager2493my 18 year old brother has a fuller beard that Ben and it’s not even peaked yet… idk why he can’t be himself, maybe he is having trouble with his manhood and is trying to prove it with a beard? He looks better without one and it’s kinda sad no one loves him enough to tell him that.

[@ob2kenobi388]

_🎵Matthew has only got one ball!_ _🎵Shapiro has two but very small!_ _🎵Crowder is no more prouder!_ _🎵But poor old Knowles has no balls at all!_

[@vicarious4231]

Shapiro didn't even know a 😺 could get wet

[@hagymascsiposgyros5780]

but cats dont like getting wet😔😔😔

[@eequalswtf6281]

@vicarious4231 Thanks for the laugh.

[@absolutfreak5012]

Ben has reached internet hall of fame status with that fiasco.

[@FatalAlcatraz]

​@@hagymascsiposgyros5780 kisses in Hungarian

[@saininj]

His wife's a doctor. It's all good.

[@BANGbucketHEAD]

A banana tree is not really a tree, it is a giant herbaceous plant that identifies as a tree

[@taliaeategg2027]

And trees aren't even related to eachother, different plants evolved into tree multiple times

[@BANGbucketHEAD]

@taliaeategg2027 yeah I think I learned that like a month ago.. trees must be the ultimate form of plants and crabs must be the ultimate form of animals

[@nondescriptcat5620]

iirc from botany, "tree" isn't even a technical biological category, it's the colloquial name for "woody stemmed plant that's pretty big relative to an average human." the only difference between a tree and a shrub is literally how big it is relative to humans. if a plant is tree-like, it's a tree. so palms are closer to grasses than they are to other trees, but tree-like palms are palm-trees.

[@younggod5230]

18:40 oh no! bens point was laughable! there quite literally is no biological definition for trees. it is not a biological nor botanical concept. it is entirely linguistic, and a "know it when you see it" type thing. most trees are not even closely related, and are simply examples of convergent evolution. so yes. a tree is a plant which exhibits treehood. quite literally

[@luxolontamo4440]

I like how you conviniently got hung up on his sarcastically absurd example to make his point rather than the point he's making

[@younggod5230]

@@luxolontamo4440 buddy, Im "hung up" on many things, this isnt one of them. I simply thought this would be particularly funny to point out. Yes, Ben was being sarcastic, but it still goes to show his fundamental misunderstanding of categories and language. He believes certain things are set in stone, and he goes about his life believing these things without even knowing what hes talking about. Ben is supremely uninterested in philosophy and science. He might act like those are his bread and butter, but he is simply too stupid for anyone to buy his crap. If I point the tree thing out to ben, what do you think would happen? He wpuld say, "oh sure okay, but my broader point still stands", his broader point being that the category of "woman" for some reason HAS TO BE scientific/bilogical/concrete call it whatever you want. Isnt that interesting? Why would he so easily (im assuming) discard his belief about trees being a biological category, but hold on to the belief that gender is a biological category, inspite of overwhelming arguments and evidence to the contrary? The answer is just that Ben is ideologically invested into the latter belief. He is just an ideologue, who doesnt care about the science or psychology or philosophy.

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@younggod5230 My point is that you invested all your time in arguing a technicality, ignoring what he's trying to convey by using a simple demonstration, he thought it would be easy and absurd enough to understand. If you happened to be correct in pointing out that his example doesn't fly, he probably would have gone like "I hope you get my point or let me find another suitable example". You are making this way too complicated than it should be, ofcourse his example was a bit crude but it serves the purpose. The underlying argument here is that if we use the very same word as though it already defines itself there are no definitions at all.

[@younggod5230]

@@luxolontamo4440 "if we use this word as if it already defines itself" Im not gonna pretend to be an authority on this, but look. I studied psychology for 3 semesters before dropping out. But one thing I very clearly remember learning in "psychology of language thought" was how we humans come to form an understanding of categories. essentially, the human mind forms clusters of things, based on how similar they are to each other. creating categories. "how similar" can mean all sensory impact a thing has on you, as well as its function and behavior. this happens subconciously, and is not at all the same as concious effort to construct precise definitions. example: we can obviously see flora and fauna. animals are different from plants. but we can also see that plants as well as animals exhibit differences within the group. birds, mammals, fish, insect and so on. this is about as far as simple ovservation carries us. but observation can be tricky. what is a penguin? all things considered, it's most similar to other birds, but most birds fly! this is where a crucial concept comes into play: recognizable characteristics vs defining characteristics. staying with birds, the single most recognizable feature of burds is flight. yet, whether or not a creature can fly has nothing to do with whether its a bird or not, nor is flight a requirment to be considered a bird. For the exact defining characteristics youll have to ask a biologist though. Now, lets transfer these concepts to humans. In nature, most animals have two sex categories for reproduction. male and female. men and women. women have a lot of recognizable characteristics. voice, breast, hips, shoulders, height - basically every part of the body, when compared to men, is in some way recognizably different. which is why they are seperate categories in the first place. but oh wait? some women are unusually tall, have unusually deep voices, have more of a boxy frame, some women even have beard growth. what if a woman cuts off her breast? that recognizable characteristic would be gone? but it doesnt matter, right? the defining characteristic would still be there, yes? "production of the large gamete", a female. you probably see where this is going. a lot of trans people exhibit enough recognizable characteristics that they go through their life living nearly the full experience of the sex they transitioned into. a trans man for instance, with a massive beard, wide jaw, deep voice and so on. sure, he is a female, I guess, by the defining characteristic, but by all recognizable characteristics hes a dude. he might be a female, but hes a man. defining characteristics/ precise definitions are important for scientists, and anywhere precision is warranted, but not in everyday life. it just isnt. If you arent sold on the trans people, consider that androgen insensitivity has always existed in male babys, yet, before modern medicine these people lives their lives as they do now: as women whom everyone simply thought to be infertile. my question is simply: whats the point of insisting these people arent the gender they say they are? what is the point? there is no point. it benefits nobody. for thousands of years humans were able to interact with each other based on recognizable characteristics alone. we still do that, only now we like to pretend to be all scientific. but we arent. otherwise we would unironically ask every person what kind of gamete they produce. we dont. humans dont work like that. or in other words: yes, Ben. a definition which pressuposes itself is perfectly valid and functional. sorry for this word vomit, I hope you read it. TL DR: psychologically speaking, every word defines itself. categories are formed first and formost by recognizability and similarity. hence why dear Ben has a concept of what "a tree" is, despite most trees not being significantly related. hence why humans were able to recognize man from woman for ages, despite the lack of coherent medical and biological knowledge, as well as why we are able to spot out a woman from a man in hundreds of meters, as well as why many trans people live their lives as their chosen gender and others being none the wiser, as well as why most kids get confused when they first learn that whales and dolphins are jot considered "a type of fish".

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@younggod5230 I read it but I fail to see how you successfully made the correlation because it doesn't come off that way. What I got from your response is that there are nuances to everything but that did not make the point you think besides appealing to complexity. I mean within any catagory there are variables but to say anything is 'anything' there has to be an attribute that fundamentally makes it whatever it is in essence regardless of not having all the functions. In the case of trans people you still did not address the part about what happens if one identifies with the opposite sex/gender regardless of having all the attributes of the opposite with no genetic abnormality. To say transgenderism can be biological determined you then you have to reject the distinction that gender and sex are completely independent of each other because in that case they clearly are not if your biological nature still proves what "gender catagory" you belong to as a trans person. To say they belong to the gender in which they claim membership to doesn't help anyone either infact puts us in this very position where we have to pretend that words don't mean anything in order to appease or afraid to say the wrong thing or get cancelled. In conclusion variables can't be used to discard the catagory itself otherwise there are no catagories ever because there's always going to be a variable no matter what, infact to know if anything is a unique or a variable there has to be a catagory as a metric. I disagree, saying words can presuppose themselves defeats the entire point of having definitions.

[@daneater957]

I think another good way to approach this argument with conservatives is get them to admit that sex and gender are different things. I frame my question as "when you meet someone and speak to them, how do you determine what pronouns to use?" This assumes they don't share their pronouns, I'm speaking to a conservative after all. This prevents them from jumping to biological arguments. Nobody checks chromosomes to determine how they refer to people.

[@_midinette_]

"Can you rank people by how feminine or masculine they are?" is also good against those who say gender is completely binary. If they're honest, the answer is obviously yes... The fact that any conservative can think a man isn't behaving like he thinks a man should or calls a flamboyant guy a homoslur, inherently shows that as well.

[@ohhimark742]

His wife is an obgyn and they do an ultrasound to tell you the gender of your unborn baby, not the sex of your clump of cells

[@umtic]

@@ohhimark742 the point is that no one can dictate people what to call themselves and no one can force them to look in a way meant to segregate based on what's in their DNA and can force the bureaucracy to be run on what's in their DNA, but Ben wants to push the world to a direction where the governments can force these. change gender with race and see how this sounds messed up

[@boycefenn]

​@@ohhimark742you're a clump of cells too 😂 though you might be missing a few up top if the distinction between sex and gender is beyond you

[@harrynac6017]

I for a fact know, that sex is determined by a cap. When I wear a cap, everybody calls me "sir", when I don't wear one I'm called "ma'am". I think it's important to know one's sex, specially when you're asking someone directions to the nearest shop.

[@olivedavid3221]

New title: trans women destroys Ben Shapiro with facts and logic.

[@rhymerlegend2717]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@nuniezjorge]

Other kid: i can see through your mother Kid adopted by a trans-woman: what? How? Other kid: because she's trans-parent

[@shis1988]

INAFF

[@Latency345]

​@@shis1988WAHt?

[@trinsit]

"Is an adoptive mother a mother?" Should have been the follow-up

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

Bro really went for the “what is a woman” bit in the same convo he said “a mother is someone who mothers”

[@luxolontamo4440]

This is such a desperate reach we know what are the functions of a mother, he was making an official definition.

[@chickensandwich8808]

I can only speak on my own experience, but i am adopted. I reference my "biological mother" as such because its more humanizing and sensitively recognizes the fact that she did give birth to me but she is NOT my mom. I have also personally never experienced a trans woman who is offended by the idea of distinguishing between biological women and trans women. The offense seems to come more from using biology to invalidate the trans experience which it does not.

[@PatrickSilent]

They always say that "woman is an adult human female". Which means "a woman is a woman". They somehow can't see that their definition is also circular.

[@bruise_willis]

No, this definition is maximally reduced to describe adult people with biological female traits. It's stage of development like boy or infant. If you can't provide definition other than your seething cultish ones that were added to dicitionary lately then stfu

[@marco_mate5181]

No, you are using the term “mean” in a different way. “Woman is an adult human female” means that whenever we are talking about a woman, we can also say that that entity is an adult, is a human and is female. “Woman is a woman” is a tautology that simply follows from the principle of identity: “For any entity X : X is X”.

[@PatrickSilent]

@@marco_mate5181 I hope that was supposed to be a joke.

[@marco_mate5181]

@@PatrickSilent no, your comment stemmed more like a joke, mine was serious

[@PatrickSilent]

@@marco_mate5181 If your comment begins with something along the lines of "you don't know what 'mean' means", it will be considered comedic material.

[@deathshop2172]

advice for everyone, if a right winger keeps interrupting you while you try to answer a question, point it out. "Well Ben, maybe if you stopped interrupting, I could answer" and then if he keeps interrupting, like he did here, mock him.

[@trevordillon1921]

All that does is create internet clips. We’re trying to create progress here not win arguments so that we feel good.

[@TheMartyandy]

@@trevordillon1921 If thought out and composed debate worked on their own, the right wing wouldn't have any power. The right, however, have been pretty good at creating clips where they "win arguments", hence one of the reasons they have power at all.

[@deathshop2172]

@@TheMartyandy exactly. a short snippy confident clip will convince the average person 100 times easier than a well-thought out paper.

[@_extrathicc]

@@trevordillon1921 We are trying to make propaganda, not produce an academic debate.

[@DeepEye1994]

Or if he does the trick of machine gunning SEVERAL preposterous questions at you and expecting you to dismantle them all, instead of doing any of that, pick one of those arguments and don't let him go until HE elaborates it... and reveals how utterly unhinged and inconsistent his brain is.

[@Luke-pp2lw]

Ben Shapiro is so beta, don’t know why anyone likes him

[@umtic]

only other betas like him

[@azazel166]

He is a parakeet and he preaches to the choir, that's why.

[@ajkbertho]

Because he speaks fast and "owns" unprepared and nervous college students

[@NoOne-ky1er]

Wait, Wait, Wait, Alpha Transgenders are commenting.. lol..

[@umtic]

@@NoOne-ky1er yes

[@brianholcomb933]

Shapiro immediately begins building straw men. Lol

[@audreydoyle5268]

Doesn't he know how flammable they are? Completely ought to rescind his point one day once he realises how ignorant it is to live without a brain.

[@stephencavanaugh8377]

What are his qualifications as a biologist? A linguist? He's a lawyer, that's it. His qualifications are about law, not biology or linguistics. His words are meaningless on those subjects.

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

My 5 year old is qualified as someone who can identify a woman. Lol. This isn't difficult. Vagina=woman, penis=man. It's still the same regardless of this nonsense.

[@stephencavanaugh8377]

@@ricksterbobolishious7523 You expose your 5 year old to genitalia? You're sick. Also, it's FAAARRRR more nuanced than the simpleton answer you gave. The issue is about language as much as it is about "biology". The biology of the issue isn't as simple as you think either.

[@ianjellison6688]

​@@ricksterbobolishious7523 what if a guy gets castrated or deformed below the waist?

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

@ianjellison6688 what if you asked a real question, not an obscure hypothetical.

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

@@ianjellison6688 so did he have a penis?

[@AProbablyPostman]

I feel like cons will stop doing these events if content creators keep showing up

[@anthonyesposito7]

Good?

[@audreydoyle5268]

​@@anthonyesposito7 no, not good. That's means a dialogue avenue closed

[@NMahon]

@@audreydoyle5268 this isnt really a dialogue all Ben Shapiro does is propaganda, he's not an intellectual just a mouth piece for fascism

[@lzmunch]

@@audreydoyle5268that’s on the conservative pundits at that point. If they cant muster the courage to enter the free marketplace of ideas because content creators keep owning them there, we’re not about to make a charity case for them and be nice

[@KingKirin606]

@@audreydoyle5268 Why the fuck would you want a dialogue avenue with conservatives?

[@angrychickengod3831]

I like how ben jumped on her for using 'female' in her definition of woman, when the de facto right wing definition is "adult female human"

[@MouseTheGoblin]

1:42 This is what people refer to as the motte & bailey falicy Instead of engaging with the main point “the precedent of changing the meaning of the word mother and the word woman in this specific fashion to include not biologically made examples and more social ones” He slightly moved the conversation to instead be about how the individual would react if you MENTION the biological version. (Thanks for the spelling correction)

[@Critical-Smoke]

motte &

[@vladimiravich7260]

How do people not break out into mockery of Ben? The dude is so smarmy. Edit: what I meant was how do people step into these debates and resist the urge to just roast him on stage. (I know he has control of the mic and his Pavlov trained audience would bark on command)

[@demigloom]

I contemplated doing a Ben Shapiro impression. He also did the world's wort Trump impression during his speech lmao.

[@Celephinn]

Woman: An adult with a female gender identity. Mother: A woman who has raised (or is raising) a child.

[@BlueKANDYdragon]

Lovely.

[@iamme6581]

First, you left out "human" Second, what is female?

[@Maker0824]

I have always had two mothers. One biological, one not. The ONLY time it’s appropriate to ask which one is my biological parent is when talking about genetics. To not call my non biological mother a “mother” is just wrong. So we see biology does not equal mother.

[@luxolontamo4440]

It does always equate to mother...

[@emporioalnino4670]

Ben: The definition of mother changed to included adopted mothers and that's fine hehe Also Ben: It's a perversion of language and an assault on the truth to try and change the definition of woman to include trans women!!!! 😡

[@justsomeguy6336]

Your comment is so wrong it’s painful.

[@brandonrathbone3690]

​@@justsomeguy6336yet that's a very good encapsulation of what benni boi said.

[@justsomeguy6336]

@@brandonrathbone3690 It’s also accurate about your comment.

[@brandonrathbone3690]

​@@justsomeguy6336that made no sense. Try again.

[@5fr4ewq]

​@@justsomeguy6336can u even understand written english?

[@Mike-again]

Also, Shapiro keeps cutting the questioner off every time she tries to clarify her argument.

[@RobertSmith-gx3mi]

Ben does not care actually care about the facts that do not care about his feelings.

[@GleefulNihilism]

This is kind of a point I've been saying for a while. That Ben isn't *nearly* as at good at debate as his fans think he is and I think he knows it. His pure win-loss record probably looks pretty good on paper, sure - but remember the Simpson's episode where Homer becomes a boxer with what's a pretty good win-loss record on paper but that's because his fights are almost all against drunk homeless people?

[@clairemckinley691]

Lol Ben saying ‘it would be ridiculous to define a tree as something exhibiting the characteristics of treehood’ is SO funny to me as an ecologist with an interest in taxonomy. That is literally what the definition of tree is. ‘Tree’ has no taxonomical basis as like a monophyletic category or anything, it’s just a term basically applied to any vascular plant that produces wood and grows big. If that isn’t ‘something exhibiting the properties of treehood’ I don’t know what is

[@nondescriptcat5620]

🌲 Big 🌳 Woody 🌴 Boys 🎋

[@tiagocaseiro]

You know you're doing well in a Q&A when you start asking questions to the person that's supposed to be asking questions.

[@zephyr8072]

I love the irony of Ben talking about people altering their bodies because of ideas in their heads when he endorses a culture where his own genitals were mutilated shortly after birth obviously without his consent because of ideas in people's heads.

[@vmofu7317]

Ugh don’t even get me started

[@giovan483]

Circumsision doesn’t leave him inverile or gives him osteoporosis and a life long disability.

[@zephyr8072]

@@giovan483 Life long disability? What? And It lessens the sensitivity in the area as well as risking infections and other issues especially in infants, and is in any case a medically unnecesarry procedure that is only done due to religious superstition. That said, it should be fine to do with informed consent. Just as any trans procedure should.

[@giovan483]

@@zephyr8072 That’s very true, but it is treatable. Transition isn’t. Men who undergo transition surgery have to regularly dilate their wound ti simulate a vagina. Organizations like the military classify it as a personal liability. Women who undergo the surgery can face problems in their blood vessels, digestive system and immune system due to lack of natural estrogen their body needs. These are not positive conditions for the human body to be in.

[@shis1988]

​@@zephyr8072also in that ritual, the mohel sucks the blood off (the one that was done to Ben).

[@yellowmonkee0]

I love how Ben thinks that speaking quickly equates being clever.

[@LightGlyphRasengan]

Ben and other conservatives will never answer our questions honestly unless we sit in an equal debate setting and hols them down with our arguments. They cant run away if they get off that podium

[@mcbltgaming3694]

I mean lefties do the same thing all the time if not worst.

[@monkeibusiness]

They cant answer honestly. Their world would fall apart. And they spent so much time constructing it, balancing all these opinions that dont align with reality.

[@LightGlyphRasengan]

@monkeibusiness I know they won't answer honestly, but if they get in a position like in a same room with a moderator, people like vaush, xan, desteeny, or even Shark won't let them get away with their ridiculous talking points

[@embluvya]

You clearly got under Ben's skin, he was getting legitimately frustrated, and wouldn't confront the question.

[@Reinshark]

Beyond definitions being socially-determined concepts, not "objective" categories, it's worth noting that definitions and dictionaries (broadly speaking) are meant as guides to help people understand language, NOT rules to restrict language. Language is fundamentally fluid and socially-defined, and definitions aren't meant to restrict that-they're meant to help us navigate that, with the understanding that words and meaning continue to change.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

conservatism is literally ideologically opposed to understanding any of that.

[@luxolontamo4440]

This is such a non-argument words do change in some cases but they don't always have to, especially for stupidest reasons like a man wanting to be called a woman. Also if there's anything objective then the language that's referring to it has to be treated as such or if not then nothing means anything I can call anyone whatever I want they shouldn't be offended either.

[@nondescriptcat5620]

@@luxolontamo4440

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@nondescriptcat5620 Who said I am a conservative or even american to begin with...

[@Reinshark]

@@luxolontamo4440 You're conflating "objective" with "unchanging". Language does need to share meaning between people, but it is fundamentally SOCIALLY DEFINED. You can't simply make up words or "call people anything you want"- what you say has to make sense to the people around you. But what makes sense to people changes, because PEOPLE CHANGE. You're wrong about all of this but a KZbin comment isn't the right venue to explain any of this to you. Take a linguistics course. Educate yourself beyond your (flawed) intuitive opinion.

[@ookamiblade6318]

Snails, birds, and fish would dispute the boundary of gender being male or female as snails often have both biological indicators of both genders, birds are known to switch gender presentation (sexually dimorphism plumage) under certain circumstances and fish are know to naturally switch between biological genders under certain circumstances. Because these are evolutionary adaptations, there is a non zero chance of humans adapting the same adaptions under similar environmental pressures. Is it likely, no, but it is possible.

[@scottsbarbarossalogic3665]

Fun fact: "tree" is not a taxonomic category; what we consider trees are not closely related through heritage but instead through outcome (minute earth has a video on it) So tree is 100% defined as "displaying treeness"

[@Eva_noir.]

Thanks to the person who confronted Ben, you were awesome💯

[@atillanandorfuri3343]

First Walsh, now Benny... Our comrades are really taking scalps this year.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Any conservative who gestures to chromosomes has already made a concession to an adapted or expanded understanding and definition of gender and sex beyond the strictly quote-unquote "traditional" one. Ditto any conservative who acknowledges even the basic existence of intersex people. Also, any conservative who makes appeals to biology or science but then suggests or proposes that we as a society should gloss over, disregard, or ignore intersex people is proving they don't actually care about biology or science---and if a conservative suggests we should file intersex people into the two main gender categories based on them having sufficient qualities to belong to either one category or the other, they're also conceding the existence of a spectrum in this regard.

[@crowposting]

Damn! Had I known Benny Boy was going to UW I'd have told literally everyone I know and we'd have started a shitstorm about this. UW is genuinely a good school, the hospital offers really gpod gender affirming care. Anyway good video.

[@1draigon]

CHAD viewer

[@demigloom]

Stacy^

[@camerabox1]

The only real shame here is that Shapiro fans won’t get it

[@CasualCosta]

Holy shit! I've never seen transgenderism explained this well. My sister adopted a child with special needs from a failed abortion and she never managed to get the papers sorted out. My nephew died last year during surgery and my sister never got the state to acknowledge her motherhood due to paperwork. The name in the death certificate is the kid's biological mother's, who never wanted him in the first place. My sister cries about it to this day. I get why deadnaming is so triggering now. I genuinely get it.

[@obscurazone]

Ben's gonna lose his mind when he finds out all mammalian embryos start life as females.

[@SmilingIbis]

Here's another question for Ben: "Are you happy that your life has turned into a clickbait nightmare that only harms one group by entertaining another?"

[@TomisaLami]

Anyone that would have observed this and was legitimately interested in learning would have been impressed with the person asking the question it would only be the people that have already made their mind up without knowing anything about it would be impressed with Ben

[@KennyTew2]

She did brilliantly, she’s being way to hard on herself.

[@luxolontamo4440]

He did not you are just giving out a participation trophy

[@KennyTew2]

@@luxolontamo4440 such a clever response, you’ve proven yourself to be thick and a c**t with just a few words.

[@kermitthorson9719]

you did good, Ben gaslight his way into audience applause. that isn't winning

[@IMelkor42]

"Are you saying everything in the universe is either male or female!? That's crazy" *Laughs in French*

[@thecriticalone1783]

I hate how Ben and people like him will conflate biology and social categories. He knows what he is doing too. This isn't an accident , it's a strategy.

[@luxolontamo4440]

There's a direct correlation between social categories and biology. To pretend that people just make up words out of no where is silly..

[@PrinceDenkichu]

​@@luxolontamo4440But words were literally just made up out of nowhere. Humans didn't just poof into existence with a dictionary in their hands.

[@luxolontamo4440]

@@PrinceDenkichu Yes, so what?! That doesn't mean anything to my point. Words would mean nothing if what they're referring to didn't exist nor would we know what we're talking about if there weren't any words or names or social and linguistic catagorizations.

[@thebeatles9]

ben needs to retake intro to sociology if he still has difficulty understanding the difference between "woman" the sex and "woman" the gender.

[@rhymerlegend2717]

There is only one woman definition: adult human female. Sex and gender are directly linked

[@ryanhubbard1885]

⁠@@rhymerlegend2717this is a disingenuous comment that doesn’t even need to be addressed, because they don’t even believe it themselves. Sports are divided by sex and they constantly want “gendered” females to compete in “sexed” female sports. They drive that wedge so we can accept that trans women are women, and then they immediately turn around and start saying that all women are female.

[@BooklikesBFDI]

Common Vuash fanbase W

[@rhymerlegend2717]

😂😂😂

[@kosterblue4673]

Ben Shapiro posted this to his channel, but cut out the original question so it makes demigloom's second question look kinda dumb. In Ben Shapiro's version, Demi just says that there is a precident for change of the language, while Ben Shapiro cut out the adoptive mother talking point that made the second point work. Conservatives already believe that you can't change language or something, so it frames the argument as just we should change language for feelings, which conservatives already ridicule the idea of. Correct me if I'm wrong but it feels like he edited the video to make himself look better and to make it look like he pwnded the libs. I originally watched the Ben Shapiro version because I hate myself and I was genuinely confused when I found the full version. Idk

[@GeteMachine]

Ben's arguments were definitely weak this time. They just sound like the most arbitrary goalposts for this topic. Its pretty much why cant trans women be socially addressed as mothers, and his answer is essentially "they cant because they cant." He can accept adoptive (and probably) step mothers as others outside of biology but cant for trans mothers because of just biology, when thats a contradiction. Biological means nothing but the literal act of creating the kid. Not what they identify as raising it.

[@vedranb87]

It's a daily occurence in the animal world that entirely different species offspring ends up being mothered by different species without prejudice, and the younglings use the same kind of sounds they would call their biological mother by, OR they adopt the sounds that their new siblings use. We've also seen a number of videos of all kinds of different pets getting along in a family setting. It's all natural.

[@Bound4Earth]

Some of us, is just proof that he was mad and using an ad hominem attack in the form of a lame joke on the person asking the question. He is such a baby and gets mad when you do not lob softballs for him.

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

Arguing with a dude in a dress at a college campus is always a waste of time. The dude needs a few years to switch to the next trendy idea. It's pointless to debate or argue with them.

[@babs_babs]

@@ricksterbobolishious7523like it’s worthwhile talking to folks like you??

[@TheWinterscoming]

Interesting that he used tree as an example because that is the definition of tree. The category of things we perceive as 'trees' contains a variety of plants from different divisions which is many degrees of separation from genus or species. Trees are just what we call plants that look kinda similar to other plants that look like... trees

[@GynxShinx]

Description: Woman (gender)-Someone society sees through a feminine gendered lens, corresponding to the female sex. Prescription: Q: Who SHOULD society see through the feminine gendered lens? A: Those who ask to be/identify themselves as women.

[@ricksterbobolishious7523]

You forgot the most important part. A woman has a vagina.

[@SkyenNovaA]

she ripped him apart

[@vincentbrancato5146]

Ben comes off as such a little twerp that is upset because mommy and daddy didn't love him enough. Seriously cant stand him.

[@definitelynotmichael777]

as a little twerp whose mommy and daddy didnt love him enough, i think youre being pretty nice to him 😆

[@martrex2]

I like this one, Ben gets so flustered trying to answer, in clear indication that his conservative belief defies logic.

[@jjboss7896]

Far right people look at Ben as a lefty

[@scarpfish]

Far right people look at Ben as a Jew.

[@blasttyrant3228]

​@@scarpfishin fairness they also think all lefties are Jews

[@Manic_Panic]

@@scarpfish And that's why I hope you leftists continue to ruin his rep. He has done irrepairable damage to the real right wing with his zionist rhetoric. Almost every conservative and nationalist movement was kidnapped by these Israelis. Get rid of the Dailywire and PragerU and maybe I'll actually respect your pronouns, at least for a while.

[@tenkenroo]

That’s more cause he’s Jewish

[@davidcookson4043]

Ben is speaking English. None of the current terminology existed either contextually or perfectly unchanged from old English or the formative ancestral languages. He's literally defying tradition in language by speaking.