Benchmark Recommendations - Road, Gravel & MTB

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

This is now the benchmark cycling video. Great choices throughout.

[@Mapdec]

🙏

[@valmorell]

Love that you are behind ally bikes. After 30 years on carbon from various manufacturers I switched to ally this year. Never looked back. So underrated.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Love the "benchmark" concept of what would you comfortably recommend to someone without knowing the specifics of their riding.

[@rantingwrench]

Great concept and I generally agree with most of this, however I disagree on a couple of points. 1) Magura brakes - no way these would be my recommendation! Fragile lever bodies and they’re difficult for home mechanics to maintain (finicky torque specs on clamps/bleed screws and they’re hard to get a good bleed on). I’d choose anything from TRP instead. 2) I love the Emonda ALR but I don’t think I would recommend it as an all-rounder as it’s quite long and low. A lot of people struggle to get a good fit on the Emonda. For an all-rounder I’d rather recommend the alloy Domane, although the new generation has a few little things that niggle me. I’d be interested to see a repeat of this, but only off-the-shelf complete bikes…

[@jonbutt7321]

Yea, I agree with you magura brakes, they're fragile. In addition the flip flops lever design makes them difficult to pair with a shifter and dropper lever. Took me ages of tweaking to get the cockpit right after fitting them...

[@petergrant9220]

I think you've nailed it across the board with those recomendations, I'm a big fan of Kinesis Ali frames, so much so I have 3 bikes built around them x2 are CX dedicated and the other the RTD and yes, running with 105.

[@Darylbarker]

Interesting and informative. Most of us watching would love to own a high end bike but something more obtainable being spec‘d by a high end bike builder is great to watch 👏

[@tobiasknoll8235]

I was able to get a really good deal on a 1x12 Sram Force Etap Rim Brake Version (700€)for my newly acquired Cervelo S3 Frame in near mint condition. Since I already got 1x12 Sram Red on my TT this was an easy choice for me, since I can swap the wheels now. For me Sram has worked great aNd reliably in the last years, good value for money. Keep up the great work, really great content!

[@matsrekdal3065]

Was lucky enough to buy one of the last built Canyon Ultimate CF SL rim brake bikes in september last year. Fully Ultegra equipped with Dt Swiss p1800 wheelset for the price of 2400$. Swapped the Aero cockpit for a separate alu bar / stem combo, and with the ext.routing, i can not tell how much i enjoy this bike. Must be one of the best bargains available the last couple of years. Mine is size XL, and it weighed 7.2 kg out of the box. Bought a pair of Hyper r33 wheels, installed the Pirelli P zero tires, Pirelli p zero Smartube and now the bike sits at 6.8 kg. Light, simple, stiff, easy to work on. ❤

[@tatumboy]

I bought my first road bike in 2016, it was an Emonda alr with full ultegra. £1200. It's still my main bike 👍

[@garyharmon5386]

Just saw this. Sorry for the late response, I have a 2019 Trek Emonda ALR with rim brakes and Bontrager Aeolus 3 Carbon wheels with Stam Force mechanical. It weighs about 16 lbs. It rides great. Glad to see you recommended it.

[@E.T_rode_bikes_As_well]

The old rim brake emonda alr frames were absolute perfection in my eyes

[@iannixey8779]

Awesome content Paul, I recently bought a new road bike. I went for the trek Domane.

[@Mapdec]

🙏

[@Stannystansfield]

Absolutely tremendous advice and interesting to note the aluminium and shimano preferences which I totally agree with. Thanks for uploading the video.

[@matejzima8210]

my own blanket reccomendation for MTB is always a hardtail, ideally something modern-ish, non-race, like a Cannondale Habit or Nukeproof Scout.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

Hardtails all the way. People without experience should enjoy the developing phase of riding a hardtail to be safe on the trails

[@J0zla]

So, basically you’re saying that bike companies are NOT selling a combination of frame/group set/wheels that makes the most sense for the average rider? I would agree 100% BTW, and add that although the better kit is nicer and faster, entry level became very good. I started riding MTB’s on cantilevers- if you had the best ones you could stop most of the time. If not, the best you could hope is to slow down. 30 some years later and even a no name disc brakes work consistently. Entry level stuff became very very good, and most of the time the only major drawback is the weight.

[@Mapdec]

Great point. Yep a lot of companies rely on the good name of Shimano Ultegra to sell an under par frame. Some entry level stuff is really good. We did a vid on Clarkes brakes that almost no one watched.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I watched the vid, couldn't find them in Canada. I did try some Ali specials lately like the m4's (zoom) and the Zrace x4, both set without discs were CDN 224$ (total for order) and they work pretty well. I had to try them before installing any of it on my son's Habit, ordered them to replace his mt200's. Not worried after a good shakedown... I'm 78 kilos and I properly strained them, even the fluid seemed appropriate but I switched to finish line just in case, no metal shavings in the bottle 😅

[@dannovikov2977]

Man, you just don't know the pain of bike mechanic)) you think that bike companies like Shimano don't make mistakes, but at the end we are all humans.

[@Ben-sb1xu]

Allways been that way...allways built my own

[@philr696]

I've just sold my 2022 Spark 910 and have bought 2 alloy bikes for the same money. A gravel bike and a 130-140trail bike. Also just ordered some of the spank rims (my favorite for replacing smashed in oem rims on treks, scotts,giants etcl) for the new mtb. I found a great value Funn hub to go with the rims that i will try out. It's amazing value but only comes in black 32h boost 6 bolt. Luckily though all 3 freehub options. If it works out I foresee this hub in a lot of mtb wheel builds. Keep up the good work team.

[@Ivan-oh6ug]

Wow, agree with most of this. Shimano absolutely nails it with well priced, well engineered and slick groupsets. And aluminium frames definitely have an advantage over carbon especially for Mtb. My bike choice mirrors your benchmark choices. Had a Transition Scout with a mix of 11 speed XT and SLX, RS pike then lyriks and then moved them to a Commencal Meta AM frame with hope hubs on Stans. Also rocking a Caad12 with full 105 11 speed and Superteam 45 carbon wheels, which are superb value. I do like your channel and intelligent chat. Keep it up.

[@MAGAmaniac1000]

I nominate the aluminum cannondale Caad 9 pre bb 30. I have 3 of them. Can even fit 28c tires with Dura Ace 7900 gruppo.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

I knew you were going to drop a cinelli in somewhere. It's such an underappreciated brand for the midrange bikes.

[@christopherrichards387]

Interesting recommendations on road wheels. What would you recommend if aero / racing is not a consideration? I'd like a decent set of fairly light wheels for my Mason definition for long fast touring.

[@Mapdec]

Call the shop and we’ll see what we can do.

[@patrickwong4824]

A custom bike that is not high-end is tough to do, especially in Canada. Middle is always a tricky area when it comes to pricing. I agree with your suggestions.

[@rodscher28]

Man just knows what he‘s talking about 👍

[@notgriff7051]

Could you do a video talking about what you’d recommend for a home mechanics toolkit? What would someone getting into bike mechanics need to get, and what would one benefit from splurging on?

[@notgriff7051]

Additionally, what sort of general maintenance/ repair jobs are worth learning to take care of on your own and what do you think is best left to the professionals

[@moobaz8675]

I'd have looked at steel for gravel and road. Gravel - Brother or Fairlight. Road - Ritchey Logic disc. Agree with the Shimano and wheel spec.

[@JohnPilling25]

For my All terrain bike I just got a Pipedream ALICE frame and DT swiss wheel set and MicroShift 1x10 group set with bar end friction shifters. I almost bought Magura brakes but have gone with Growtac equal cable disc brakes. I contemplated a Sklar frame but they are just too expensive.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

If Trek and others won't sell us aluminum frames, I would simply buy last year's model on the used market and build that to my spec.

[@sandy_knight]

I 100% agree about the OneUp dropper post. I specced one on my cost-no-object SantaCruz last year over a Fox Transfer because they have the most drop for their insertion length. If I'd run the Transfer I'd be stuck with 150mm drop where as I could fit a 180mm drop OneUp post. Quality-wise, a year later and its still working flawlessly unlike my mate's RockShox Reverb that seems to need bleeding every month!

[@lovenottheworld5723]

That Zydeco looks great which is the main thing.

[@revelationdetailers894]

I am a roadie even though I have a mountain bike too. I agree with your assessment of 105 for a benchmark and more toward a newbie or someone not in it long. I prefer SRAM wireless as it is truly wireless over the Shimano system and more intuitive for me. I could easily ride Shimano, but if it is my laying down money I am a SRAM guy. I currently have Rival wireless and it performs better than I had hoped. In fact, I was ready to right away change out this stock shop bought bike with Force or even go Red but no need for now until maybe something goes awry with the system that indicates it is the tier quality issue. I was surprised on the roadie build it was not a carbon frame. I love carbon and my Cannondale SSE is awesome to ride. Enjoyed the viewpoint from you.

[@nicknick194]

Got 105 Di2 groupset on my winter bike and I'm blown away with it. I was gonna swap my 11 speed Di2 on my summer bike with ultegra 12 but as Paul says, ultegra is extremely difficult to justify

[@BenSietze]

Don’t really get the 1x option for the gravel bikes. Seems to be the most popular choice these days, but to me the 2x add flexibility, increases the range with smaller steps. I think this would be preferred if you’d like to use your gravel bike a fair bit on the road as well. In all honesty, being just an enthusiast / hobby cyclist I sometimes wonder why 1x get so much love but almost no-one really seems to consider an internal gear hub like Rohloff. Being non competitive, without the need to shift instantly under load, I think the Rohloff would hold up extremely well against any 1x derailleur system. Yes it’s expensive, but if the bike will stay around for a long time it will probably outlive virtually any other bike component or derailleur system on the market. Perfect chain - or belt - line with minimal maintenance, excellent range and top notch drive train efficiency. Agree on the Alu frames - they offer the best bang for buck I think these are in general highly underrated. To a large extent I feel due to marketeers and perhaps also channels like GCN where good/better bikes usually seem to go hand in hand with carbon fibre. There’s a bunch of high performance alu bikes available that will outperform much of the lower end and quite possible even decent quality carbon options. One of my all-time favorites is the Cannondale CAAD. Not the last one though..CAAD12 and below.. Just my 2ct.

[@nickyburnell]

Its so they can charge more for less. Cyclo-cross bikes were always 2x and that game is m u d d y

[@DR_1_1]

I'll have to replace my old bike and I was first seduced by the belt + hub option. A cheap Cube Hyde was my first choice, but after some research I changed my mind. I also chose 2x, 1 x are still quite new so I was not sure about these, also they require different chains, that have to be replaced sooner? but 1 x is easier to use and maintain, so it has some obvious advantages ,if you really want to shift all gears progressively on a 2 x you need to switch between chainrings several times, and this is often confusing since you don't always know which gear is engaged (2 x 11 speeds on my next bike, really? who needs that, I'd prefer 2 x 7-8 and have less angle on the chain!). The information I collected tells me that hubs add 3-10 % loss on transmission compared to chain, that's a lot, also a bit heavier I think, and as you said, you often need to make a pause when shifting, that's an advantage at the traffic stop, but would not help with a gravel/MTB/CX, since you often need sudden spikes of power to clear an unexpected obstacle. Although hubs offer more protection against dirt and a muddy chain is certainly less efficient, dirt is obviously not stopping CX races so it's not that much of an issue... To make it short, hubs are more appropriate for commuting and short trips (just like EVs btw!), maybe touring if you are 100% confident with your equipment, and also for eBikes. But people who can afford $3000+ bikes for road and gravel want maximum performance and lightweight - even if they don't really need that, since 90% of them are not into real races.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@6:01... DTSwiss are the ultimate hubs... I actually prefer the base model 350 rather than the up-tier 240 or 180 due to their bigger and more common bearings. Plus, they don't yet use the EXP design... both ratchet wheels are free floating.

[@neilk22]

Completely agree with your alloy frame preferences, for gravel especially, probably the most underestimated material for that specific application. On the Groupset side of things, I would always save more to get AXS for gravel and mountain applications. Shimano is nowhere on electronic shifting for these applications I feel way too much of a compromise, but for road, Shimano is king

[@JulianKent]

Maybe back when you only had Deore 11 speed. But now with the HG+ Deore shifts just as well as GX AXS, and at a fraction of the price. Maybe if you don't like cables and are happy to charge batteries the extra cost is worth it for you.

[@neilk22]

@@JulianKent i would add to your critique that out in the wild, fixing (or bush repairing) a cable actuated gearing system is way easier than electronics. Not sure if you have tried AXS, especially on MTB, but the fire and forget, always indexed, comfort is something to behold.

[@JulianKent]

@@neilk22 I'd argue that the amount of charging batteries on AXS is more than I'd have to give a twist on the barrel adjuster with a cable. Less complicated, so it balances out. IMO it's all down to personal preference and how much you want to spend. Now, if SRAM ever follow up on their patent with putting a mini dynamo in the pulley wheel to charge the derailleur, I think the balance would shift towards electric shifting. But without that...

[@Antoine_Frs]

Funny concept, interesting answers. The mtb is definitely the hardest one to recommend blind because the gap between XC and DH is absolutely massive. One could argue that most bikes from trail to DH are very similar and simply get bigger, but XC is something on its own and I believe that’s what most people end up doing, because it’s the only discipline you can practice when you don’t live in a region with mtb-specific trails. I’d be glad to ride the other 2 benchmarks as they are btw.

[@gur262]

Well. I ended up on the tiny dirtjump track. Frame cracked eventually 😅. ....I think the ultimate bike for people not so sure whether they are just gonna go over some ruts n ride up footpaths or jump the thing should be made of steel. I didn't break it on a jump I shouldn't have been doing. It cracked much later. Fatigue.

[@Shopsmith10er]

Pass on the ally. The harshness becomes old to contend with. The 'band-aid' approach to cure by quality wheelsets and tires plus a carbon fork is pretty much needed. Just go with a quality regarded steel maker, accept some grams (lbs ) and enjoy.

[@byc1013]

Okay what Steel bike then

[@kyleslater5245]

The patrol is a bit of a heavier bike though. As someone that has one I don’t think I’d recommend that as a starter bike. I’d go slightly lower travel like a smuggler or rocky Mountian instinct. For context my used bikes are rocky Mountian altitude powerplay, transition patrol, and kona blast (in that order).

[@roymendez6615]

😂 because of some LBS working to help me replace my stolen bike, I pretty much built what you described for the road bike. The only difference is I did mix 105 DI2 and Ultegra to get hyper glide. And I was able to get a carbon frame and wheels because of the steep discounts offered.

[@steve6942]

Great choices for benchmark bikes I would trade the dropper on the transition to a brand x having serviced both I don't see the mark up for parts/spares is good enough to justify the oneup I'd be very tempted to question that they're made in the same factory too 🤔 Road bike I'd go for the Trek Domane AL 4 because I have one 😂😂😂😂

[@adamcoppock5018]

Great suggestions. 👍 I am still trying to like SRAM after they came up with the UDH thing.

[@bernieraverty4319]

Great video….do you have a recommendation for a steel or titanium gravel frame to build up.Specialized Cruz or Litespeed Ultimate?

[@paulpalmer7967]

I think a Transition Smuggler would make a better frame if only they did the alloy as a frame only. I have previously model carbon frame and the versatility of a 130/140 travel 29er is hard to beat but I understand where you are coming from with the value avoiding carbon gives.

[@theAdventurousCyclist]

Thanks for the great content. Would you mind sharing your perspective on replacement brake calipers for road and gravel bikes like the Hope RX4+, the Trickstuff C22 or just hacking a Magura MT4/8 Caliper on a GRX lever? I Would really love to hear what a professional bike mechanic has to say about this, and there are not too many resources on this topic out there. Personal, I was looking for a little upgrade for my brakes on my gravelbike, but with a postmount frame, my options were limited. So I did the little Magura+GRX hack (original the bike came with some 68xx Ultegra STIs, but I had to eventually replace them as well), and I am super happy with breaking performance. Especially when I do some gravel cycling in the alps.

[@Mapdec]

Hope and magura work well. I have no experience of trick stuff though. I think in road the brakes still outperform tyres, but in cross and gravel a hope caliper upgrade can be worthwhile if you ride the steep and wet stuff

[@Rose.Of.Hizaki]

I think personally for me the prices of bikes has been quite eye opening. Last time I bought a bike was in 2016. Triban 540 for £800 and an Ultegra equipped Cube Attain Race GTC for what i think had an RRP of 1700 but I picked it up for £1200-1400, I cant quite remember. The 540 is a bit long in the tooth now and the shifting on it requires a rather hefty push to change gears compared to my CUBE. I could do a cable change. Throw on some fresh inners and outers but the shifting has always been quite heavy and 5700 can be a little finicky as far as indexing goes. I wanted something to replace the 540 for commuting duties and maybe some fast and fun long weekend rides. Did a lot of looking around and settled as the new Trek Domane AL4 Gen 4 as top candidate. But my gripe is that its a £1700 bike with a 4700 Tiagra groupset and a stock wheelset that im going to be throwing away or selling on ebay pretty much instantly. The bike being 10sp doesnt bother me at all, Ive spent a lot of time with my 540 and 10sp has never held me back so I'm totally fine with it. *BUT* if i wanted something a bit more classy and high-end like the top of the ALU range AL5 Gen 4. That will cost me of another £300 and all id get for that money is an groupset upgrade to 105. No fancier wheels. I feel the AL5 Gen 4 is such poor value for money at £2000. There are no colour options either.. Only black but Im a fan of white/black colour schemes so the AL4 speaks to my soul a lot 😂😂 Worst case scenario is I just pick up a 4700 groupset, handlebars and a new set of wheels for the Triban and carry on with it. Not ideal but it will feel a lot more fresh then it currently is. ::EDIT:: Or 105 R7000 groupset for that matter - I cant actually find the 4700 for sale which is rather strange.

[@Mapdec]

Good thinks.

[@meghshyamdesai9906]

Please make a beginner level series

[@Mapdec]

Umm. Interesting. I feel this could work. Might need to define beginner as someone willing to invest in something worth upgrading, rather than just out right cheap.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

​@Mapdec Perhaps cheap enough that they don't feel like they've wasted too much money if they don't stick with it, and good enough that if they do get bitten by the cycling bug, it will be 2 years before their skills/fitness gains mean that their bike might be holding them back. Say £1000-1200. And what upgrade to help them get a 3rd year out of it.

[@kyleslater5245]

@@Mapdecpossibly less then 2k us price tag? When I talk to people not actively in the sport most of them balk at anything over 1k even though that barely buys you anything.

[@MisterCOM]

Have you ever worked on a frame made by marino?

[@Mapdec]

No. I have never come across one.

[@seanrequiredfieldcannotbel1362]

Paul, what is up with the stain on that couch?

[@Mapdec]

History 🤷‍♂️

[@shlep444]

patrols are really good, but working in a shop that used to sell alot of them, the frames did used to break quite alot..

[@PeterPutz82]

What do you think about Dylan Johnsons latest video about his gravel race bike being a XC mtn bike with drop bars. I like his comment that gravel bikes are just not needed and we'll see hardtail XC bikes take over the role of the dedicated gravel bike.

[@AlanForest]

The 4 bikes I have range from Haro Bridgeport 700,Felt Broam 30,Felt FR 30 , I’ve recently purchased a Felt AR Advanced 105 Di2

[@edmundhodgson2572]

I would be happy with all of these. But the Transition, I would be over the moon if I had that.... oh. I Have!

[@greghart6310]

Cheers for that! I couldn't agree more about the lack of choice offered in complete bikes and the mediocre wheels etc. that come with them, not mention that the crank lengths and gearing are often not what I want. I did a cost exercise on an Emonda alr (great minds think alike! LOL - always loved that bike) with Ultegra 11 speed groupset, ultegra 50mm carbon wheels, selle italia carbon saddle and carbon post and bars - came out at 3300 quid - probably 3500 by the time all the hoses, cables, tyres and bar tape are added in. That's stiil a chunk more than the completes offered by Trek but then I get exactly what I want. What do you think - is it worth it? Does that sound like a good build?

[@Mapdec]

Yes. But you can do more serviceable wheels for the cash.

[@petererbse6253]

I agree with most specs. I would add an xt shifter to the deore drivetrain tho, not expensive but to me it changes the feel significantly. Also what do you think of marzocchi suspension. Since it's a bit simpler to fox? Or do you have less experience with them?

[@yurokle]

Paul, you seem to have changed your opinion on the Rival groupset as the default "entry" level one. Could you please elaborate why?

[@Mapdec]

105 di2 launched and has been dropping in price ever since. I would still hit Rival for very low ratios

[@thezenboy]

Only thing to say. Thank you for this.

[@luminodotcity]

Apropos aluminium frames, and as an aside / related to you stint with Ridley: I can fully relate, their paint jobs are lacking in detail. I had to ream the seat post and bb shell of both my Ridley AL frames, and the dropouts needed work too. But the welding seems precise, the weight and geometry is competitive and so was the price (canti xc frames with carbon forks).

[@bryanjohnston221]

Great video Paul and I’d agree with you on all but the road bike frameset. For the extra £100 I’d opt for the carbon Venta from Basso especially after your review not long ago 👍

[@Mapdec]

Oh. Is that really only £1400

[@universe-juice]

Merlin has DeRosa bikes half price right now. Also, cervelo r5cx is half price on most sights. R5cx with sram red, and their in house brand carbon rims for $6k is got to be cost for them? Trying very hard not to get one. Because its not what i want but really cant unsee it?

[@philipsiebenhaar1674]

I’ve got the Emonda ALR frame in the white colour way. Most beautiful alloy frame there is rn

[@bicivini]

Commencal for MTBs looking at price and versatility. Rockshox or Manitou suspension fork, to easily maintain. Gravel…Seaboard alu frame & Oniiri alu wheels (with pillar spokes, 36 ratchet hubs). SRAM AXS anytime…Rival or Apex (on a budget) or Force/Rival mix for road. MTB 2500.- / Gravel 2000.- / Road 2800.- (with Elite Wheels, PlanetX Titanium frame )… at least these are my builds, proven, reliable, budget friendly. Gravel = 8.9kg / Road = 7.8kg / MTB = who cares riding enduro 😂 Cheers

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Making perpetual helmet hair cool 😀👍

[@ogden99]

Frame only mtb I’d not look past Bird. Sonder Camino from alpkit is a great frame only option again for a gravel bike. Groupsets 100% shimano, especially at the lower end for mtb but I’d be choosing SRAM rival AXS over 105 Di2 myself.

[@Mapdec]

I do like that Bird Arears. They can take a hammering.

[@SaschaRissling]

Allez Sprint frames are very accessible

[@lenolenoleno]

I find the road/gravel recommendations are fantastic/comes from lots of experience. The MTB ones though are often a bit "limited" in their sample size (not bad... but more that less MTB product has been sampled by the staff vs. road/grav). - Rockshox is an odd outright recommendation? Like their drivetrains (SRAM) their top tier stuff like the Ultimate (and X01/XX1) is fantastic but anything below is pretty average (and their entry level stuff is outright poor. Fox/Marzocchi entry level stuff is miles better than entry/mid-range Rockshox. I'd agree that the Ultimates/Charger 3 are easier to set up than Fox GRIP2 but both perform equally well. - Transition Patrol perhaps for an outright recommendation? Transition drop off on QC (and poor bearing sealing for a brand from the PNW) has been well documented. Their bikes these days actually make Santa Cruz look like good value. If you're setting a benchmark for alloy frames than RAAW Madonna/Jibb for similar money. - Magura MT5s are a decent recommendations, although Deore MT6120 are more powerful, don't suffer from the inconsistent bite point, easier to bleed, easier to set up and half the price. - Have seen a decent amount of Hope Pro 4 ratchets get stripped. DT Swiss 350 (new version) comes with 36T ratchet and is about 20% cheaper than even the old Hope Pro 4 and a lot more reliable (and lighter). The sealing on Hope Pro 4s isn't any better than DTs. - Deore 12sp - agreed 100%.

[@Mapdec]

Good counter arguments.

[@kidkarbon4775]

Only one road bike has ever stood up to the plaudits and reviews and that is the Lightweight Urgestalt. Nothing else I have ever ridden comes close.

[@Swoop10]

Whats the rough price for the road wheel build you suggested?

[@DR_1_1]

More.

[@tomverdich184]

Great video Paul. In this age of mind boggling choice for you to lay out some really high quality options is priceless, particularly for those just new to the sport. Just my two cents. I owned the previous model Emonda ALR Disc (H2 geometry) and tbh it was one of the most uncomfortable bikes I've ever ridden (from a frame compliance point of view). In saying that, geometry and handling was great and I agree the build quality was high for a more budget orientated frame. I currently own the rim brake carbon version (circa 2018) and enjoy it far more. A combination of the aluminium and the stronger/stiffer forks for the disk brake version just make it super harsh in my opinion. In saying all of that, maybe Trek have built a little more comfort into the latest model!!

[@ronitdebnath]

CAAD rides significantly better than Emonda alr. Then and even now.

[@Mapdec]

Did you ever upgrade your wheels and tyres?

[@Mapdec]

The 4, 9, 10 and 12. Yes. The 13 is not good.

[@KNURKonesur]

Bit of a noob question, but for a daily use do-it-all kind of bike (cycling to work, around the park, on roads and pavements and in forests, mud, puddles, and usually kept outdoors all year round so exposed to the elements constantly) what's the advantages of the Zydeco Muddy over say a Sonder Camino frame?

[@Mapdec]

Fork quality, and weight, alignment and general quality of welds and paint. Some Sonder we have seen have needed the rear triangle straightening and the chain line adjusting to get good shifting. The welds sometimes have gaps. The wheels they come with are horrific. If you get a good one, it’s worth upgrading.

[@KNURKonesur]

@@Mapdec I only bought the frame when they were on sale over a year ago. I got Fulcrum Rapid Red 500 wheels half price from Merlin Cycles, the groupset was initially Sensah SRX Pro 1x11, now it's a mix of Sensah and GRX600. So far the bike worked fine, rust has been a big issue here in northern Scotland, but that's due to the nature of my bike usage. It's used every single day, in every single kind of weather and it sits outside when I'm at work, plus it goes on longer offroad bikepacking trips several times a year. I've been looking for some upgrades, but difficult to find reliable information. Seems like almost nobody in the youtube space actually uses their bikes all the time as a means of transport, it's all about nice roads, training, racing and nice dry weather.

[@petrabuis]

I don't really understand how you can recommend Shimano when they just had this massive recall? Is everything back to OK again ?

[@Mapdec]

Well the 105 is a solid crank. SRAM is not without issues either.

[@Shadowboost]

One thing to note is there are some weird Emonda ALR warranty issues

[@wenschobert]

As for Gravel-Drivetrain: I'd go Ultegra R8000 since I just got derailleurs, stis and breaks for less thann €300 (new)...

[@ericsondmd]

I would suggest a Merida Scultura Frame ( Aluminium) as a proper "beginner" frame. Geometry, Looks and Price point is certainly worth the look.

[@HarishChouhan]

Why not sram rival?

[@jhoff80]

If someone is on a budget, right now its hard to beat the prices of 1st gen Force AXS, in my opinion. I'm sure 105 Di2 is a bit more refined... but first-gen Force is half the price or less while retailers are trying to get rid of it. Personally I paid only $850 USD on sale for the whole 2x groupset, though these days it looks like its more in the $1100 range.

[@jarhead4657]

Had both, the 105 Di2 brakes better and shifts way better. Faster and smoother, especially smoother.

[@jhoff80]

@@jarhead4657 Like I said, I'm sure 105 Di2 is more refined. But at the bargain basement prices you can find it at right now, gen 1 Force Etap is a much better deal on a budget at half the price of 105 Di2. Just my opinion though.

[@yohansharp3040]

Standert Kreissage is Al (scandium)

[@nickhawtin7243]

What’s your thoughts on a titanium gravel bikes any benchmark recommendations

[@ronitdebnath]

Mason BokehTi?

[@playmoreguitar5393]

​@@ronitdebnathjesus not at that price... I got a Ti gravel bike that cost a fortune, looked at the Bokeh Ti and ran away when I saw the end cost with £400 shipping too. Definitely not 'benchmark'.

[@Mapdec]

There is some good, and expensive options, but nothing stands out as a blanket recommendation. You have to really keep an eye on chainstay flex

[@andrehendrik]

I've been looking into this for a while -- quite tricky to find a Ti benchmark from what I've seen, I think the best you can do is find a brand that has genuine Ti expertise/heritage. In the US you have Litespeed, which seem reasonably priced.

[@davekashuba4730]

@@Mapdec Why do you specifically state "chainstay flex"? Is that out of fear of it breaking at the rear dropout? I had a ti frame detach at the drive-side dropout once - can't remember if it was at the seatstay or chainstay though.

[@TroggyPK]

i think you missed the point a bit on this one, if someone is wanting a benchmark bike as their first bike weather it be mtb,gravel or road bike... price comes into it alot more than what you expect. dropping 3/4 grand on a bike as a first purchase is kinda taking the piss.... if its someones first bike and with over a decade experiance with this... £1000 is usually the limit and we saw this when road bikes went from 600/700 starting points with rim brakes to all having disc brakes and costing £1500, the sales literally dropped 80% OVERNIGHT. yes covid made people buy whatever was available but now these companies that dropped the entry level price point are all now struggling and closing.... there will always be a customer for expensive bikes yes. but there HAS to be a lower barrier to entry if the industry is to survive especially with how many big suppliers like M+L and ral are struggling and closing....

[@Mapdec]

It wasn’t intended to be entry level. Benchmarks. As in you have to have a good reason to upgrade or down grade from here. Cost would be a good reason.

[@BennoSattler]

Italians would say "Tchinelli" ((Italian pronunciation: [tʃiˈnɛlli])) - thanks for making me look this up, I was wondering for long an never got around to it ;-) Also, aluminium high spec for less headache, yes please.

[@trailfork7815]

The weirdest thing in our market in SEA is that one up droppers are quite expensive They are selling for 250 Meanwhile you can get a bikeyoke revive 2.0 for $20 more At that point it's a no brainer to just get the revive

[@doormat321]

Can you please talk about high quality non-performance bikes? I think there is a need to encourage people to buy quality products that last. I hear very little about daily bikes that are high quality. Hard tale MTB's were sold as the do everything bike and now gravel bikes are. I think both fall short in many ways as a bike to use everyday, possibly in place of a car.

[@Mapdec]

It’s not something I have tons of experience with to be fair. I don’t see that many internal hub gears and the like.

[@doormat321]

@Mapdec thanks for your response. I had assumed you had more of a bent towards the sport aspect of cycling. It's good hear you encouraging others to invest in quality equipment than perpetuating a chain of throwaway dross. I don't see much of this outside of the sport/performance sphere. You also encourage building a bike rather than purchasing off of the shelf in many cases. I have purchased numerous bikes and spent the same again adding parts. I think it's often times more economical to just build the bike that suits your needs from the get go. I feel building a bike is just as useful for everyday/lifestyle cycling. Finding a bike that fits very well seems to be almost impossible, by the time you have changed bars, stem, grips or tape, tyres and saddle (not to mention gearing, crank length or wheels) you are negating much of your initial cost saving buying pre-built. Thanks from your contributions and keep up the good work.

[@arthurthecyclist]

Any particular reason why you’d prefer Shimano over SRAM groupset?

[@Mapdec]

For benchmark mechanical or entry level electronic think they offer the best value. SRAM mechanical is pretty much redundant now.

[@dominicbritt]

@@Mapdecfully agree on the Groupset front.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@Mapdec I think you could agree that SRAM mechanical and entry electronic are a taste sample of their high end tiers, if not for so strong wordings from my side

[@pgn666]

Love the format! nice recomendations. Would love to see your recommendation for XC bike too!

[@Mapdec]

Oh. That’s tough because you really have to consider weight. I’m drawn to the Niner AIR 9. But I would need to check prices

[@pgn666]

thx!@@Mapdec

[@bradleybabel4814]

Personally I’d love frame manufacture to sell more frames by themselves for custom builds. Yeah not just a flagship top spec option as a frame only.

[@MS-bw7yt]

I think 1x on a gravelbike is not an ideal choice, especially when you look for versatility and maybe the possibility to put road tyres on. I would spec grx 2x. Otherwise, it's not a bad selection !

[@zuhzz1309]

1x12 is more then enough also for road

[@paddyotoole2058]

⁠@@zuhzz1309No way. The jumps between the gears are too large and messes with consistent cadence, which is not as noticeable or needed when riding gravel / off road. Having ridden both I would have 2x on a dedicated road bike all day long.

[@MS-bw7yt]

@zuhzz1309 I don't know what road riding you are doing, but I find for road and even fast gravel 1x is really not ideal. 1x excels in MTB and cyclocross with reliability, but for a "benchmark" I would always choose 2x for road AND gravel.

[@zuhzz1309]

@@MS-bw7yt then u should work on ur cadence I guess

[@andrehendrik]

I'm thinking about building up a gravel bike with 2x GRX, the 810 series 11 speed -- anyone have any experience with this groupset and are there things I should watch out for? Thanks

[@tommays56]

I have DI2 GRX 150 miles on it on a TIME ADHX and it’s fabulous compared to mechanical

[@Mapdec]

Yes. Its good. Some gravel frames with dropped stays can have some tight cable runs to the front mech. It’s a good groupset though.

[@andrehendrik]

Brilliant -- thanks@@Mapdec

[@justpedal65]

I'm assuming you're looking at 11 speed because of price and 2x because you want some large gear top end? My point being: if you're eyeing an 11 sp. 2x for better ratios without needing the top end (120+"), then the new 12 sp with 10-51 cassette will render 23" low end (40t CR) and 22" with a compatible Wolftooth 38t CR. That's 2" to 3" lower than 11 sp. 2x. This means less maintenance and no left hand shifting. However, the top end on 12 sp 1x 38t is only 110", and the 40t is 116", so your "tailwind" gear is lower by 4 or 5 inches. This being said, if you are not racing, you will never miss this top end unless you are a hammerhead grinder by nature. I've got the 11 sp 1x 800 level with a 40t CR and the 11-42 on the rear. Sometimes, I wish I had a tad lower... especially on the 3rd day of a bikepacking trip in the hills. But I like the less complex drivetrain more. The 11-46 will work even though it's not listed for 11 sp GRX (Shimano is conservative). However, the b-screw is pretty buried on the 11-46 setup, and it does groan a little getting into the lowest cog... not bad, though. You need an adaptor link to go lower on the 11 sp 1x. Hope this helps and good luck!

[@ArtisanBicycles]

@@justpedal65 I prefer the 2X on S2 mode for the tight small consistent gear steps

[@-.-1724]

apparently only 40mm tyre clearance on that zydeco frame, a benchmark gravel recommendation would have to be able to accommodate more imo, looks brilliant though apart from that

[@Mapdec]

Really. I have customers running much more than that.

[@-.-1724]

@@Mapdec yeah I'll say it looks great as sort of what I'd call a ""performance gravel"" bike, but purely because I think gravel for a lot of people also goes more towards the sort of adventure do-it-all bikes a 40mm frame doesn't cut it as a universal recommendation personally

[@nigelatkinson2939]

It’s a great frame. I’m running it as a winter bike with 35mm tyres under SKS mudguards. Prefer SRAM Rival 43/30 10-36 to 1x options. May be because I’m heavy and live in Switzerland 🏔️

[@ronitdebnath]

I do think Mason Definition is more apt than Emonda ALR but availability is an issue. Trek's H 1.5 is quite an aggressive geometry unless someone really needs a dedicated race bike.

[@Shadowboost]

Nah, 1.5 is fine. Not even their raciest geo

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@7:52... note... a well-regarded industry professional, after presumably deep consideration, suggests HOOKED rims as benchmark. Great choice. It took the cycling community 100 years to realize wider tires are better on the road... how long will it take to understand hookless is a scam?

[@Mapdec]

Umm. I wouldn’t go so far as scam. Poorly communicated and executed idea that provides very little benefit to performance on road bikes.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

@@Mapdec Manufacturing hookless is cheaper, but they charge the same price. So in addition to tires blowing off the rim, we riders don't get a share of the cost savings. Call it good business practice then... which too commonly means good for the company and bad for the customer.

[@davistaishi]

TT/tri bike please!!

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Agree that Shimano should be the benchmark groupset across the board. Campagnolo is beautiful but just too quirky. SRAM uses that ridiculous 30 mm spindle and their chains are slower.

[@jakecollins6097]

Trek Emonda ALR?!!! Wow. BA wrecked my bike on the way to the Haute Rout Alps, I ended up on a trek emonda hire bike. It was garbage, utter garbage. heavy, unresponsive and miserably uncomfortable.

[@dylangrantz8124]

i think that cinelli could be a ton of nice bikes for the price. can't deny the finish is great but the cx like routing is kinda dated.oh from the deep south in the usa it is said zai duh kow. plenty of great products in the uk i would go with besides that. maybe cheaper in the uk here that is a wopping 1300.00 bucks. would rather anything from fairlight or a pipedream alice heck that is only a couple hundred over a rodeo labs flamminal. heck that with 400 bucks more get a whole canyon grizl 7

[@feedbackzaloop]

I strongly advise against Lyrik or Pike for them being built on 35mm chassis with undersized bushings. As good all else about it is, one single part kills everything. Hence the demand of service and severity of consequences when it's not provided. But yes, it's easy to compare other forks agaist Lyrik. Benchmark for wheels - DT. In all categories. You know what you get and everyone else DoesToo

[@Mapdec]

I’ve only had a few with issues. A quick run through with bushing sizing tool sorts it pretty fast.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@Mapdec I meant lengthwise, sorry for being unclear. Something you can't drift through, unforunately, and have to take as is.

[@Mapdec]

@@feedbackzaloop the length of a fork bushing…. I really don’t see how that could make any difference. I guess you mean the height. The ID can defo be sized.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@Mapdecwell, being a tubular part, length measured along the axis and is same as height if you consider it a cylinder... As per the difference, should be obvious - it affects the contact pressure and the proportion of edge area to the whole area. Meaning it is more demanding of grease quality (in other words, more affected by its degradation, dilution with oil and contamination). But all the details aside, It is just no wonder ND Tuned offer upgrade bushings for this chassis, 32 chassis that have same length (heigth) and Fox 32.

[@Mapdec]

@@feedbackzaloop sorry. I still don’t follow. Do you mean the bore size? 35mm? In which case these can be sized with a bushing bore sizing tool. If you mean the length, height or depth, then an extra 1mm would make no difference. The ND tuned bushings are not required if your shop has a sizing tool.

[@Yamaha_Bolt]

If you’re talking benchmarking without context then Time and Look clearly set the standard in road bikes. If context did matter and one’s budget dictates something less expensive then that’s fine but these two brands stand alone

[@Ben-sb1xu]

Stans rims all the way..been on em since Stan invented no tubes. They dont break an good price

[@DanTuber]

Aluminium is too heavy. And life is too short to ride heavy bikes.

[@BenHughes-et2ss]

Some good advice. I can assure you if you’re in the comments here you’ve got no business on a carbon fibre bike. 😂

[@meteormedia7021]

There's no point what so ever in going with carbon on a mountainbike. All mountainbikes should have steel or aluminium frames.

[@mister_ray]

Agree with the Shimano 12 speed 105 Di2. Have it on my Giant TCR. Incredible value at US$3,500 with carbon wheels. Can't imagine needing such a heavy slacker MTB. Way more time spent climbing than descending.

[@diehardbikes]

I wouldve chosen AXS groups all the way. Easy to carry spare batteries is what it mostly comes down to for me. Plus no shifting cable. Rival AXS for the road, GX for MTB and Apex for gravel, again with that versatility and options, I feel AXS ticks all the boxes. For me, electronic removes lots of issues. As long as I carry a spare battery for each component I will have no issues with it. Thats some solid reliability. Shimano can't say that

[@17cream]

Spot I think. Will look at the Cinelli at some point 😊