Benedict Rogers | This House Believes the West is Hypocritical Towards China | Cambridge Union

Benedict Rogers speaks as the second opposition for the motion in the Debating Chamber on Thursday 5th December 2024.
With tensions rising between the West and China, this debate examines their relationship in greater detail. China’s increasing position on the global stage has led to much criticism from Western nations; however, given Europe’s colonial past, some feel that these criticisms ring hollow.
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Cambridge Union Society Debate Info:
In The Chair: Sammy McDonald (Incoming President)
Taking the Minutes: Leonas Pausch
The Debate Motion title is always preceded in context by the phrase “This House Would”, “This Would Believes”, or simply “This House”.
The Debate motion is typically phrased in Proposition of the argument prior to any votes or speeches, regardless of controversial nature.
Six 10 minute speeches are given, alternating between each Proposition & Opposition speaker of the Debate Motion.
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Floor speeches are made by audience members at intervals during the Debate discussing support for Proposition, Opposition or Abstention.
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At the end of the Debate, all Speakers and audience members cast their vote as they leave the Debating Chamber through doors labelled “AYES” & “NOES”, with the central door exit representing Abstentions.
The Chair calls an announcement shortly after the Debate to confirm the votes.
Full Debate:
• This House Believes th...
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Thumbnail Photographer: Nordin Catic
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BENEDICT ROGERS
Benedict Rogers is the co-founder and a trustee of Hong Kong Watch, and served as its Chief Executive until recently. He is also an advisor to the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China (IPAC) and the Stop Uyghur Genocide Campaign, and author of seven books. He is the recipient of the International Religious Freedom (IRF) Summit’s award for Champion of Effective Advocacy.
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[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

Friend of Jimmy Lai, no wonder. No wonder he spoke like that. I am from HK. Like many of my HK friends, we all understand how much damage Jimmy Lai has done to HK with the support of US and Britain who were/are using HK as a battle ground against China.

[@uriulanov8520]

可惜啦，中国英国制度水火不容，没办法。

[@IndiaTides]

Lol. Chinese bot.

[@ascoaptwwasmqx2840]

The moment the use of Xinjiang and Tibet issue, no doubt its hypocritical. Both this province have been much better being part of China. China is doing so well that it doesn't need any such hypocritical advise. Just look at how angry India is towards the British. The west needs to do pay more attention to poor ridden country such as India and Africa. The people in these countries needs basic human living condition and the British could repent themselves in such areas for the sin they've committed in the past. Next, the west needs to pay attention to the middle east and inculcate Christian values of love, forgiveness and kindness so to end all its civil wars. The Arabs do needs lots of British advise here.

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

Over 100 million Indians died under British rule - many out of starvation when British shipped tons of food out of India.

[@freefree1219]

@ascoaptwwasmqx2840 agree with your first few statements, but has to totally reject your conclusion that the west should meddle more in the middle east. I'm not Christian nor Muslim, but I did study in Catholic school in my primary and secondary years, so I know a bit about the Christian faith. The basic concept of "there's only one god, and my god is the real one and your god is a fake " is the cause of endless wars in the world, from medieval times to today. The similar blind faith in "democracy" in the west, whatever that word means, and "my democracy is the real one and your democracy is fake" mentality, follow the same path for the west to drive more wars and killings in the world. Chinese are a lot more pragmatic, and believe in diversities in the world and respect different cultures and different gods. There are many ways to solve the same problems. The west has nothing to teach the Arabs. Just leave them alone. Do away with ideology differences, and focus on how people can work together to get a result that benefits everyone. Give peace a chance.

[@kb.e3762]

@@freefree1219 you might want peace but because you live in a democracy and a free society others fear you and will want to collapse your society because they think that they can then only be safe at the top.

[@lucyng-pellicioli916]

No, Sir. I don't enjoy your type of "freedom" if I fear getting mugged while walking in the streets at night or during the day, if I see homeless people dirtying my streets, if I don't get treated expeditiously for my health ailments, if my trains don't run on time, if I pay higher taxes for so less social returns, if my country continues to decay. No, thank you.

[@kb.e3762]

there are millions more homeless and beggars in china than the entire west. Mugging and looting cases are more there too, just because you are sheltered in your middle class neighborhood and they do not show them in your controlled social media and news does not mean it's not happening. Human nature you should learn a thing or two about it. And once the downturn of your economy happens like it happened in the west because of advancement in technology and transfer of factories to china you will see more of it coming your way.

[@kslam2546]

What a boring clique: I love China, I love the people. It's only the CCP I oppose. Have I heard this before, anyone ?

[@yuxu5685]

The Communist Party of China has 90 million members. I guess he just fight against one-fourteen of Chinese

[@jasonjean2901]

Gotta admire how ridiculous Rogers is for making a distinction between the "CPC" and the "people of China". For starters, 100 million Chinese people belong to the CPC, whereas the U.K. only has a population of 68 million; so he is condemning more people than there are Britains, by a lot. Next, look at the polling and studies by Harvard's Ash Center, and others, regarding the support the Chinese people have for their government. There simply is no meaningful distinction to be made between the CPC and the Chinese people. It just shows Rogers' ignorance and dislike of all China when he makes such nonsense and propagandistic claims.

[@jasonjean2901]

Rogers is a remarkable liar. The Sino-British Joint Declaration was never a treaty, and China wouldn't have signed a treaty to gain back complete sovereignty over Hong Kong. Why? Because 1997 was the end of a 99-year lease! Why would China sign a treaty with the U.K., thereby giving them permission to critique Chinese governance over Hong Kong forevermore? This argument doesn't make any sense, especially given that Deng Xiaoping had to threaten the U.K. with war if they didn't leave on 1997 (back during the negotiations in 1984). But, even more ridiculously, the Sino-British Joint Declaration says right in its wording that China is going to take over the National Security of Hong Kong, which, ironically, is why people like Rogers claim that China somehow reneged on the declaration.

[@yeukszeng5681]

As a local born HongKonger, I am so sick of your words. How about you use the same standard to criticize your government first? We all see how your police crack down on protesters in UK by force, how they arrest people because of speech on social networks. How about you use the same standard to criticize your government for all the wars and war crimes your country involved? Your country's support in the gexxxde that ICJ found grounds to be investigated? You just make me so sick

[@samsun01]

Agreed. This clown 'loves' China but does he love Britian? Because Britian is collasping. And he's accusing China of so many crimes but without any evidence. He's just a sore loser he broke some laws and got banned. He should be honest about the reason why he was BANNED. He must have done something really awful, that clown.

[@slchoong007]

While western countries ignore the genocide in Gaza

[@kb.e3762]

As a local Martian, I thank you for speaking as a hongkonger while living in your parents house in Wuhan. I understand that you support the uk governement's action as portrayed by a random guy on X and trying to equate it to ccp backed hongkong govt's action of hiring white shirt goons in beating down protestors. As I am a Martian and my gf is a hongkonger I would say on behalf of her that hongkonger just wants to leave in peace but ccp wants to enforce its draconian laws in hk to gain the finance market and dollar reserve of hongkong. Why couldn't the ccp wait couple of years since the brits did say in 50yrs it will all be yours, why no patience? Is it because you can see your collapse imminent and need hk money to keep ccp in power?

[@yeukszeng5681]

@kb.e3762 What are you talking about. Do you know what local born Hongkonger means? Why would my parents connected to Wuhan？ The moment you want to connect any negative news against China suggest you know nothing about it. Maybe you hear from the protesters they are so peaceful. But I have to tell you, they burn one people alive, shoot arrows to police, throw bricks that killed one passed by, beat reporter seriously. All are recorded detailedly. My research lab was broken in and chemicals were looted. I could show you all the pictures and conversations at that time. I suggest you read more, maybe from Prof. Jeffry Sachs that how US and UK stirr up chaos and violence around the world and from Duran for how the EU force the cancellation of election to ”protect democracy “?

[@yeukszeng5681]

@kb.e3762 I have replied with a long account of what happened during that time and the reply got deleted instantly. Seems you could only have freedom of speech when you fit the agenda. All I can say is : go research yourself, learn more history

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

Like most western countries, this Benedict use a couple of examples instead of a big picture to sustain his argument. I would like to ask him if the wrongs against Indians by the British less severe than what he said against China. Over 100 million Indians died under British rule mostly due to starvation while Britain exported tons of food out of India.

[@charlieread2097]

So your argument is “no u”? You’re also bringing up an example from a regime (the British Raj) which ended nearly 80 years ago to deflect from ongoing abuses in Uigharstan and Tibet. If you want to compare these situations to a more recent British example - let’s look at the Scottish independence referendum. Perhaps China can offer Tibet an independence referendum? Surely self determination is the only fair way of dealing with issues of sovereignty. Indians rightly resented British rule and rejoiced at independence. Can you truly claim that Tibet and Uigharstan are happy with Chinese rule until self determination has been expressed freely and fairly at the ballot box?

[@newtonw1008]

@@charlieread2097you forget the recent history…the century of humiliation. The stewards of the Chinese civilisation (currently the CPC) will not relent til they’ve removed all signs of damage caused during the century…Taiwan being the last. 2000+ years of imperial baggage 😂

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

@@charlieread2097 Self determination is one way to look at the political system. Instead of giving you my comments I would like to invite you, my friend, to first study the history of China since Zhou Dynasty. I realize that when people from western countries read China, they seldom take into consideration the vast (1.3 billion ) population of China . Unless they grow to this size themselves, they could never appreciate the importance of stability solely for the purpose of sustaining the livelihood of this 1.3 billion population. I will be glad to hear your comments.

[@GuyHappy-j7m]

Typical hypocrite speaking about hypocrisy. How real !😂😂

[@lewisj7559]

What evidence can you provide for Uyghur genocide, Mr. Rogers?

[@slchoong007]

No evidence required as he is the champion of human rights.

[@lewisj7559]

@ good one!

[@newtonw1008]

The term genocide is highly abused in this case

[@Aleph-alpha]

Accusation is actually confession.

[@gweejiahan9336]

If they thought they had a case they would have brought it forth to the ICJ and ICC instead of just bitching about it for decades. They can't even prove a cultural genocide let alone actual genocide. Also look at what the west supports in Palestine for decades. If that isn't genocide or even cultural genocide nothing happening in XJ is. Thats the biggest hypocrisy ever.

[@maun123a]

How long did it take you to abandon and correct slavery and other wrongdoings? China's culture revolution lasted ten years, and the communist party corrected their mistake way fasrer than your government

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

I am glad that Benedict Rogers mentioned HK in his debate. Indeed should anyone studied the history of HK one would realize the hypocrisy of British government and in turn how hypocrite is Benedict himself. I was born in HK. As a British colony, we were not allowed to study modern history. Our history class stopped before the opium war. I don't think I need to elaborate the damages and killings caused by opium that was brought into India and China by the British. If Benedict were a true and honorable person, he would be ashamed to stand in front of the Cambridge Union. There were no democracy whatsoever in HK until Britain realized that it had to revert HK back to China. Britain and China negotiated a joint declaration and Britain has embedded traps within the declaration that served to destroy the economy of HK. Several years prior to 1997, the then HK government under British rule jacked up the property price to incredible levels. Stock market flourished. All HK people participated in speculation. Multi-national head quarters moved out of HK because of ridiculous rental. Competitiveness of HK was totally destroyed. After 1997, the bubble burst. Property prices slumped. In 2003, some properties dropped as much as 80%. Britain happily saw the collapse of HK. It was due to the China's open door policy, HK slowly but painfully recovered. But Britain did not want to stop there. They changed the education system, educating younger generation to hate China. They also controlled the justice system. This gave them the opportunity to stimulate protests in HK.

[@4eyefishball53]

British government, when they governed HK, they never talked about democracy. Did HK people ever have a chance to vote for members of the legislative council? No. Not until the British government knew that they would have to return HK to China in 1997.

[@maun123a]

The "one nation two system "agreement is not broken, I can agree that it's weakened. But it's those Hongkong people who used protests to block national security legislation in 2003 that broke the agreement first. The legislation was required in the 1990 Hongkong Basic Law Article 23,

[@jackychan7709]

Nonsense!

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

The protested started with the expatriation law which was proposed by Li in the legislative council who later opposed it himself and provoked violent protests. I have asked many people participating in the protest if they had read or understand the security law, the answer is negative - " We don't understand law. I think protest against China is right so we protest."

[@slchoong007]

@@jackychan7709 Which part?

[@Aleph-alpha]

@@slchoong007 For illiterate people, it is hard to understand these. So makes no sense to him, therefore, nonsense.

[@joshua5056]

Jesus. This guy, the Chinese people actually love and supports their government , , don’t need you defend their freedom .

[@davidchou1675]

Absurd.

[@ansa336]

Hear! Hear!

[@ralphyin5043]

why a individual teacher used to stay in qingdao. talked China more on ccp. i believed it was more political driven and extremely. most cases he mentioned related uk or other colonial countries’ bad behalves. he just forgot but raised higher standards to a group he believed not well. it was absurd

[@palmpalm5131]

Full of lies

[@swytwn5]

If you love Hong Kong so much, why didn't you implement democracy when the British colonized Hong Kong? If you care so much about human rights, where were you when Israel was massacring Palestinians?

[@EdChinWorld]

Great speech Benedict, thank you 🙏

[@SO-rq3pm]

Well said! Thank you, Ben!

[@samsun01]

And the Titanic known as Britain keeps sinking. Can't use mobiles in public without getting robbed. Knive robberies also common. Jeez. Ridiculous inflation. How many prime ministers have you clowns switched?