Are spending rules DESTROYING football?

[@garytomas5411]

It’s a joke clubs like Man City are getting away with breaking the rules while everyone else gets punished

[@guyjackson1261]

Yeah, how can they claim it's about sustainability with the debt Man U have and Chelsea mess around with hotels

[@lordprotector3367]

Not to mention Chelski.

[@topcat4759]

100% agreed. Not sure how much they spent on bribing the P/L but how the hell did they not get a points deduction. I'm sure Gunners fans think exactly the same, or they may have won the title.

[@Justinian-IV]

PSR was designed to force clubs, like Villa and Newcastle, to sell their best players, so we are ok selling players to meet PSR, but not when they are the wrong players. I am a Villa fan and I'm gutted we had to sell Luiz and some of our youngsters.

[@kishennandha9127]

I agree

[@davidatkinson-lifematters4826]

Newcastle fan here. I think those clubs outside the established 'Big 6' should coordinate their transfer activity and exceed the FFP limits, all take the points deduction, and expose the FFP farce for what it is.

[@YouTubecanbitemyhairybanger]

Cry some Arab blood money over it

[@peterclarke2471]

It’s pity few teams didn’t gang together protest take points deduction but maybe only winners in that scenario would be Man Utd as quality wise they bottom of rest “Big 6” pack. They won’t want Villa or Newcastle anywhere near them! Forest potentially did fairly well on Anderson he seems ready to explode on Premier League if can stay injury free…. Other clubs swapping academy players hard to comment as most never played more than 5 games

[@timegan1884]

Money rules the game. The rich get richer. The gap gets wider. The EPL and EFL make rules to stop clubs catching the big six.

[@wolfgangbailey3730]

It certainly feels that way. As a fan of a club who do have one unlikely top half premier league finish in the last 5 years, I genuinely believe the worst mistake English football made was blocking the so-called "big 6" from buggering off to form an inevitably "doomed within a decade" European Super League that nobody wanted except oil rich oligarchs and US "franchise league structure" exponents, and nobody would follow like they currently follow league football.

[@topcat4759]

100% totally agreed. Not been the same since the old first division was replaced with the prem. Virtually no foreign owners or managers before then.

[@GizmoTheViking]

Why is there an impact on Newcastle if money rules the game? They're the richest club in the world...

[@WYRG]

Leeds currently have Sam Byram, Jamie Shackleton, Charlie Cresswell, and Archie Gray all in the first team squad who came through the leeds academy, the dream is to see them stay and see more lads who have started at Leeds to come through the catagory A academy into the first team squad, so how can we make this happen when we are being forced to sell our own to avoid breaking rules which were supposed to protect clubs from having to sell their best young local or homegrown talent, it makes me sick, and you wonder why clubs constantly look to buy foreign players these days, absolutely ridiculous!

[@leeevans9654]

As a Leeds fan I think that we should not rip our team up just to stay within the FFP rules while other clubs in Man C, Chelsea, Everton, Forest & Leicester manage to get away with it on appeal. Why should we abide by the rules when others clearly don't?

[@tanyajacobs9974]

To be fair Everton and , forest were punished. And Leicester will be. Do we want to be in that situation , with minus points at the beginning of the year?

[@YouTubecanbitemyhairybanger]

Oh you sweet summer child.... The FA and EFL have serious vendettas against Leeds. They'd make us THE example of we went a penny over FFP

[@leeevans9654]

@@tanyajacobs9974 My point is the punishment doesn't fit the crime, a few points on appeal. is it worth ripping the team apart? I don't see other teams doing that.

[@29memyselfandi]

Don’t think Everton getting docked 8 points or Forest getting docked 4 points is getting away with it. Eight points is a lot and both Forest and Everton were very lucky the teams below them last season were crap. Otherwise they’d have went down.

[@29memyselfandi]

Though I agree the whole situation is ridiculous. Newcastle have the money to spend hundreds of millions yet have to sell players!

[@sisloan]

As a Villa fan I can tell you that it feels like we have reached the point of punishment for success. Douglas Luiz being sold (plus some good prospects) just as we reach Champions League seems like madness. I totally understand the comment from some quarters of it appearing that the rules are there to maintain a status quo rather than allowing competition.

[@andrewfield8562]

As a Newcastle fan its the same the curupt premier league protecting the cartel its anticompetative behaviour

[@Leenufc]

Us toon fans feel your pain bro

[@seancorker5815]

Anderson for £35m is bonkers until you factor in Vlachademos going the other way for bonkers money too. We paid £4.5m for him and he’s terrible. If the fee is around £10-£15m then we know it’s an inflated fee. It’s a stitch up but anything that undermines FFP is fine with me.

[@colinhamilton7204]

£35 million is not ridiculous for Anderson if you take into the fact it was only 2 yrs ago Man U bought Anthony for £90 million when he’s dog shit

[@Mr_Linka]

So, Chelsea buy an Aston Villa youngster who has never tasted fist team football for £19 million and no one bats an eyelid? Now, is Anderson worth £30 million, possibly not, but for the last two and a half season he was part of Newcastle’s 1st team, and he only started ten games last season because of severe back injury. He was a one no Newcastle fan wanted to lose, I include myself in that as well.

[@garymilburn4511]

Newcastle fan here we've had to sell our two young players who are outstanding by the way ,Forrest have got good player who's worth more than 35 mil mate .and you think it's great cause we have to sell our good young players ,get your head right mate ,we are richest club in world football and we have been made to sell do you want us to give them away don't talk rubbish son.

[@YouTubecanbitemyhairybanger]

Cry more Arab blood money waah

[@bigwhite4051]

It's a joke that we are forced to sell our biggest asset in Archie Gray. Let's just take the points deduction and ignore the rules like the rest who have profited out of doing the same. Archie is going to be world class and would stay with Leeds longer if he had a choice.

[@MikeyBrum]

The solution to this is quite simple. Let free markets reign and let clubs spend wtf they like. They effectively do this now anyway by way of expensive barristers and so on. The result will be that the rich will get richer and their greed will make a Euroleague a formality. Proper English clubs can then restructure the top 2 leagues to make it more competitive. Lets face it 80 odd teams in current set up are simple making up the numbers (my team included). He who laughs last!!! - once all the armchair subscription fans have got bored watching Man City play Juventus 4 times a season, the TV money will decline. Once this happens and those same English clubs come begging back to rejoin - then advise them to go visit a taxidermist.

[@Nawanda]

FFP should FF..OFF A realistic salary cap is needed. MC and others hijacking the competition.

[@Mr.P001]

It does make you wonder what the point of complying if the punishment is going to be so anaemic. The PL seems to wait to see how a points decision will affect a team 1st it took 3 seasons to act on Everton, but immediately on Forest 🤔🤔. Why should Leeds or any club stick to the rules if breaching PSR does not have any real punishment on teams doing so?

[@JesusCOREx]

Leeds fan here. I'm of the understanding that we do need to recoup some money to avoid breaching P&S rules and unfortunately it seems Archie is the only asset we'll be able to sell before the 30th June deadline, otherwise I think he'd be untouchable. He's priceless as far as the fans are concerned but football clubs are a business at the end of the day.

[@PsychedelicSquirr68]

We have had a season to decide what to do if we failed to go up, This sudden panic sale says it's the oppersite of good business.

[@craigambler3282]

It just needs to be a percentage of your income. Say 80% so if you get 100 mill you can spend 80 mill. They also need to cap wages per division.

[@NickNicholsonNFFC]

Premier League.... You must sell players in order to stay within the confines of PSR. Loopholes are a wonderful thing when the original rules are not fit for purpose

[@dartmoormole]

I’m rapidly losing interest in this league. FFF/PRS is a joke. It’s ruining this league. Selling academy players and young up and coming players to conform to these rules. Utter joke.

[@ZionOrange]

FFP is not fit for purpose and needs to be adjusted for modern inflation and seasonal revunue changes. Im a newcastle fan and didn't want to trade up Minteh and Anderson, I would have rather turned Bruno into a massive transfer fee and distribute that with amortisation into 5 or 6 other players adding quality all over. Using acadamy players to inflate income is shameless and it is proof the rules don't do what is intended; ie they fail to created fair competition and they fail to have clubs build sustainable models while retaining competitiveness.

[@Belly81]

No team should complain about FFP/PSR cos they voted for it. Only supporters should be able 2 complain cos the rules are shit. FFP was put in place 2 keep Man U Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal and Spurs in the Champions League places and 2 slow down other teams from competin 2 get in 2 the CL places let’s all face it FFP/ PSR rules are anti competitive and should be scrapped

[@DesertTOON]

It seems PSR having the converse effect of what it was intended to be. I though the idea was to make teams rely on their home-grown talent to reduce spending NOT sell them. I think this is a consequence of the spending rule changes being applied too quickly.

[@waynejohnson1075]

How do you fix it? You can't... The rules have been written by those at the top to protect their investments at the detriment of the rest. 51% fan/community ownership? Stop clubs selling out to foreign billionaires? Wage cap? Transfer cap? Scrap agents? Pay off your debts first? None of this will happen. English Football sold out... How sad

[@marshtopia529]

Complying with p and s is like staying loyal to a swinging girlfriend.

[@fulham1958]

It's becoming a House of Cards.

[@leejonesAngling]

Newcastle paid 35 & 40 mil for Hall and Tino, Elliot Anderson is worth 35 in this market

[@kevwoods6827]

Hi Ben the psr is a farce but a leveller if your worth 300 billion as a club your really the same as a 500 million team. Remember nufc fans thinking they can buy anyone lol .

[@markharrison7522]

The whole psr thing is a joke anyway its not fit for purpose why can't owners spend money on there clubs without getting punished. If a company invests millions to improve itself it doesn't get punished for doing so. And before anyone mentions Pompey they had dodgy owners doing dodgy deals!

[@patchadams1001]

anderson will play in the number 10 or left wing and that is forest's 2 strongest positions with cho and mgw they have signed a 35m bench player

[@El-Benj]

Best explanation of these transfers I’ve heard Ben and best analogy too. Leeds Utd fan who feels like we have sold our soul to the devil!

[@rowan5109]

Fee is really no different than what NUFC paid for Lewis Hall or Tino Livramento.

[@AdrianNUFC]

Anderson for 35m is a completely fair fee, great player with a great future

[@andrewmoore8432]

But buying 3rd choice forest keeper the other way for 20mil...........

[@seancorker5815]

No it’s not mate! It’s an artificially inflated fee which will be reciprocated when you lot take Vlachedemos off our hands. When it’s announced, be aware that we paid £4.5m and he’s rubbish. He’s so bad he makes Sels look like Buffon.

[@O0o0oo00k]

Well most likely bench him and it is a terrible fee. Newcatle are lucky that are manager is so gulible

[@NickNicholsonNFFC]

Didn't Newcastle pay about the same for Lewis Hall? Unfortunately it's the crazy world we live in these days. There were a lot of people that said we overpaid for Morgan Gibbs White when actually now it looks like somewhat of a bargain.

[@anon-zk6iz]

@@andrewmoore8432 Where did you get that price from?

[@MUSIC4TRUTH....]

Ruining football? ha where dya wanna start? the commentators are ruining football, the prices at stadiums are ruining football, the tv stations are ruining football, gambling is ruining football, VAR is ruining football etc... etc,... i watch my son play and thats it for me.

[@Southstand83]

Archie Grey going to Spurs to sit on a bench when he be an ever present for Leeds in the championship is not the best move for his career.

[@phil291254]

Chelsea have to buy and sell hotels to keep best players and avoid psr

[@aquatic3708]

Welcome to the prem Ben! Lets get you up to speed on the farce!

[@RobertSimkin]

The only thing PSR does is protect the big 6

[@rayburns5287]

You think the get arounds alright then?

[@1574john]

This guy obviously doesn’t watch Newcastle very often. He’s Newcastles best young player, he’s a premiership player who this season would have played far more games except for injury. In the current climate £35 is not excessive for a player if his calibre.

[@BenjaminBloom]

Mate the comments come to me, you can address me directly.

[@mickratters8073]

PL teams appear to be using a loopole in the rules.

[@stephenbride1308]

As a Villa fan I'll be honest. Kellyman at that price is a bargain. Especially considering they paid £20 mill for Carney 2 years ago who has played about as much football, rated just as highly and only had a year left on his contract. Chelsea had been after Kellyman since January. His price is following previous prices for players like him.

[@wolfgangbailey3730]

So, I think the rules need to be applied progressively (in the same vein as progressive income tax or a progressive wealth tax, whereby there are different levels based on what you earn/the value of your assets) So I think that clubs just getting promoted need more leeway, as do clubs with lower turnover, and that needs to be offset by the global mega-clubs (Citeh, United, Chelsea et Al) having tighter parameters to work within in terms of margins of allowable losses. That's not to "punish success" or whatever else that I already know fans of certain clubs will claim it is, because those clubs will STILL be able to afford to outspend the clubs lower down by quite a lot, not just because they have more money, but because they can actually attract the kind of player that costs that much. It just means that the clubs coming up, or just clubs with less revenue, can actually give a proper go at maybe getting into the upper mid table every so often, without needing to either just have been lucky with some players they happened to already have at their disposal or to worry about being stung with points deductions for showing a bit of ambition. The other side effect would be making the premier league less of a boring and predictable affair. Currently, there are 5 or 6 teams who can essentially just spend whatever they want without having to worry, and by the time the new ownership money has properly bedded in in a year or so, you can add Newcastle to that as well. Being able to just spend whatever they like means that you're essentially discounting the possibility of any other team breaking into the top 7 or 8, except in the occasional season where those money teams are having a transitional period (like spurs and Chelsea last season, and even then they still both got top 6, or like Man Utd have been for the last decade since Fergie left)

[@xristosfarrow5425]

I m a Villa fan. I admit we found a creative way and discovered a loophole but i want to make 2 points. 1. Transfers like these are happening for years. Liverpool sold Brewster for £25mil, City are selling academy players every year for £15mil, we sold Chukwemeka to Chelsea 2 years before for £20m all of these players with no premier league experience. Nobody was saying then that the cost and the value of these transfers were wrong. Is Caicedo worth £115mil ? Is Anthony worth £80mil ? Is Grealish worth £100mil? You cant have an objective metric about a player value, it is what a team wants to pay. 2. The rules are honestly a joke. They probably created to protect the elite and make a closed shop or at least they are working that way. But the rules are a joke. Teams can find hundreds of loopholes. I mean they are selling hotels between companies with the same owner and that is considered profit in the books and is ok by the rules. Its a farse. The rules have nothing to do with profit and sustainability because the profits are not actual profits but only book profits. Football is turning in a game that logistics are more important than athletics. The problem is that we dont see a serious effort to create rules that help and promote the game and competition. We just see suits making decisions about money and privillage.

[@markwood2116]

The rules are clearly not fit for purpose. The leagues clearly can't police themselves. The Regulators are coming.

[@nichemphill8321]

The £35 million fee is not the total amount NFFC will be paying. Anderson will likely join for around £15 million, with Greek goalkeeper Vlachodimos going to Newcastle for approximately £10 million, and the remaining part of the fee will be made up of add-ons. Newcastle's issue is likely around failing to make Europe NFFC seems to have met PSR compliance with the sales of Orel Mangala and Moussa Niakhate are joining Olympique Lyonaise for "substantial fees. Mangala has been on loan there since January

[@psychocircusclown85]

The last two transfer windows have been so obviously affected by PSR but not in a good way. January basically saw zero trading as teams were scared to do so and this window so far has seen swap deals and player swaps which have never been seen before. The clubs who already have huge commercial revenues have been massively aided by the current system to the point that other clubs have had to sell their academy players or young talent 😢

[@tonyantoniou9271]

It is a farce !1

[@kevwoods6827]

Not sure how Chelsea or Man City can stay within psr ?

[@JayCoyle301]

By selling players to Saudi

[@leeedsonetwo]

It a stupid system that holds back teams who do have the backing to buy new players. The intention was fair enough but there must be a better way of ensuring teams are stable. It is also unfair as it fixes the top six in a unassailable position. Had Leeds cheated last year we would have gone up now we have to sell our star to give us room to buy..

[@leonmarkrodziewicz279]

The whole point of FFP is to ensure that the wealthiest clubs with the greatest turnovers don't get their dominance challenged. It's no longer a sport it's just a business.

[@terry9819]

The rules were brought in to reduce the gambling mentality but the clubs are so intent on betting everything they find a way. I wonder how many of these young players were taken from EFL cubs for a pittance. The only way to solve this is to make it so relegation doesn't equal ruin.

[@Clemo1991]

This 35m may not be 35m as forest selling vacl to Newcastle so both clubs could balance the books but till we no what the valc deal is can not go on that price as if Newcastle buy vacl for 25m and we buy anderson for 35m it's only 10m we got anderson for. It's that psr loop hole club using

[@gr328]

Nobody wants their club to go bust but everyone wants the new £10m striker! We have to make clubs sustainable. FFP isn't the answer to the grossly distorted finances of football across the divisions and neither are the blooming (pardon the pun) parachute payments. We need a proper regulator with teeth to protect our clubs from the vultures.

[@vindaloo3134]

They set their own protectionist rules and then clubs like City think they're even above them, I wonder if owners' leverage has anything to do with it 😂

[@MarcDonald-t1t]

The bottom line is the so called top 6 have got a massive head start on everyone else that through their sponsors European games and players they can make a profit on its unbalanced, the lower teams are paying the top teams all their money to try and keep up its draining them so they sell their youth for 100% profits and then they have to pay top wages and if that player doesn't perform and the team gets relegated then they lose again by selling him on cheaper then lose more by getting relegated so the money they lose is astronomical, make no mistake 3-4 years time this thing will ruin more teams than save them which will be to late for a lot of them.

[@poliver1980]

I think there's another take here. Developing players in your academy is now so incentivised that English football is producing a massive amount of excellent players. We have such a surplus that we're now exporting not just to other leagues but to other national teams. These players aren't just chips being passed around by clubs. They're valuable and promising players whom another team wants. Swapping players is just a smart way of dealing with the regulations as they are

[@Frenchyitfc]

Does the proposed Anchoring model provide a fix to this? Believe it’s along the lines of a hard cap where total team expenditure (fees + wages) can be at a maximum total 5x the income of the lowest income premier league team. Teams have shown they can’t self govern and will exploit any loophole possible (see Chelsea selling hotels to themselves to pass p&s) an utterly broken system

[@BigDom61]

Even if FFP had of went up with inflation it would be closer to 200 million this crap just doesn’t work

[@rgsnr8702]

at some point When players pay becomes sensible then it will not be the problem it is now ,most players are not worth the money clubs and fans have to fork out ,this whole system pushes clubs below the poverty line it is unsustainable

[@TruthisclassifiedLiesisnews]

If you're a big 6 team you can do as you please , man utd have been in debt since they were owned by the glazors .

[@owenwoolnough7654]

i mean i didnt want my club to sell Ismael Kone to Marseille but if this was the reason why im glad we did

[@notmyname4261]

They'll ruin Archie Gray

[@davetaylor4560]

FFP is designed to do one thing, stop clubs going bust. I understand the need to protect clubs and fans from poor owners but the one size fits all rules are not working. Take my club Stoke for example, we could go out and spend 20 million on players without putting the club at risk because we have wealthy owners where the likes of Plymouth or Oxford couldnt. There has to be some sort of account taken of each clubs circumstances when applying these rules because its hard enough competing with parachute payments without having your hands tied behind your back by FFP !

[@swestlad1983]

bristol city fan here never been in prem but have to match teams coming down lucky we got a good youth team and scouts

[@mickratters8073]

I think with Leeds they still owe other clubs £150m from previous deals. That could be a reason, I guess. And of course the reduction in parachute payments this season.

[@rockyfan]

Yep. there's a big hole in our accounts due to transfer instalments - which Gray's transfer is probably being pushed to resolve. Sadly paying the price for some shocking signings a couple of years back.

[@hannahbone4207]

Tell me you don't know the difference between cash flow and profit and loss without telling me you don't know the difference.

[@mickratters8073]

@@hannahbone4207 Well come on then smarty pants, tell us and how it relates the sale of Archie Gray. Don't leave us in suspense over here. I assume his sale comes under 'profit and loss' and has nowt to do with 'cash flow'.

[@hannahbone4207]

@@mickratters8073 correct and it's not £150m still owed to other clubs for previous transfers, it's far less than that. It also doesn't appear to be PSR related for 23/24 financial year either, which makes the timing odd.

[@moze2324]

35m for Anderson is simply ridiculous 😂

[@NickNicholsonNFFC]

There will be add ons which will potentially mean it could go to 35mil, and Forest will also get some money back from selling Newcastle Vlachodimos

[@NUFC_Mason]

Anderson is Great at his age. I’m sad to see him go.

[@shit__gamer]

I'd have him back in a heartbeat.

[@Leenufc]

He's a great young player and will ne missed at the toon

[@LiamK2292]

If the clubs didn't overspend in the first place, they wouldn't have to sell their academy players.

[@yorkshirej2219]

This guy ^^^ 😂

[@mrwabbit9576]

I love FFP! Without it, Newcastle would instantly become another man city and we would all be complaining that the competition is dead.

[@Leenufc]

But it's already dead with city , so at least someone would actually challenge. But NO its Newcastle so let's just change every single rule so Newcastle can't progress or other teams for that matter

[@mrwabbit9576]

@@Leenufc 1 is bad enough. We don't need another and the result of city's FFP charges could change that. We've seen a lot of big underdog teams going up to the PL since FFP has become stricter and that would stop those stories. Newcastle should only be allowed to spend in line with the money they make. They clearly don't make enough and probably aren't as big as they pretend in that case. City at least tend to turn transfer profits and regularly sell talents they've developed.