802.11ah Wi-Fi HaLOW: The 1 Kilometer WiFi Standard

[@BenJefferyCanada]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I'm really surprised at the amount of attention this video has got and it's keeping me motivated while I work on other video projects. I wanted to answer a common question: The 900MHz band (906-928 MHz) is unlicensed (Usable by the general public) in North America, South America, and some other places. From what I can tell, Australia can use 915-928 MHz. If you live elsewhere, like the EU, you will want to check your country's specific regulations and rules before using 900MHz equipment as it could be possible to cause interference with cellular networks or public safety radio systems. In the EU, 863-870 MHz is available with a 1% duty cycle limitation and some TXW8301 modules are able to make use of that band, although I'm not sure if the chipset does anything to self-police the duty cycle limit.

[@PragandSens]

question, does the Anjielo (long one with included antenna) supports IPV6? i cant find info about that on their aliexpress page

[@PragandSens]

massively good video btw, i love it

[@KeithOlson]

I can see this being *VERY* handy for convoys, both for communication and the ability to include a single cellular modem/StarLink/etc. for data. Everyone could be on the same (local) Discord server--for example--and chat/text/etc. as needed.

[@sebkeccu4546]

In europe (all countries) 900mhz is used by cell phone towers... you would disrupt all cellphone communication and it won't be long before you have officials ringing at your door with a huge fine.

[@mjodr]

You got a lot of attention because there are barely any good videos on this technology so far. I was actually waiting to see somebody make a video like this. My search results were so thin.

[@1996_Dude]

This is actually amazing ! especially with its low power usage, it can be used with a small solar panel and few 18650 batteries and run basically for ever !

[@jackchen6410]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3eTc3ukos5soJo

[@MOSMASTERING]

I have read some news stories reporting this setup working for up to, or, over a month on just a coin battery. So, any small rechargeable battery plus a tiny solar panel could keep it running indefinitely.

[@Rick-pl5ey]

Not possible, because the 2.4 ghz side still will drain

[@pyromen321]

Those extenders seem like a great option for people who want a Wi-Fi camera outside but have a large property! Super cool

[@jimmymifsud1]

I’ve had wifi cameras on 900mhz for about 10 years now, what’s old is new

[@skippern666]

900MHz band is one of the bands used on GSM mobile phone, there are multiple low energy technologies on this bandwidth and naighboring bands, the issue is that there are different restrictions in these bands around the world. HaLOW units would need to use different frequencies or channels within the band or migrate to neighboring band depending in where in the world the setup is installed. 915MHz are "free to use" in US and AU, while in EU those frequencies are restricted so 868MHz are used. Living on a farm with some distance between buildings, HaLOW WiFi could be an alternative instead of digging down cables between all buildings, though I would still keep living houses connected to internet with wired solutions. The distances and bandwidth mentioned in this video show that it is more than good enough for installing sensors like pressences, leak, temperature, or smoke to my home server using MQTT, current bandwidth draw on my sensors are less than 1kbps.

[@Berkeloid0]

It's not really any different to any other WiFi band though, especially 5 GHz which is different country to country in allowable channels, maximum frequencies, radar avoidance, etc. In fact, the Linux Wireless project has already been including 900 MHz bands along with 2.4, 5, 6, and 60 GHz in its region list, so using this existing region infrastructure for 900 MHz would make it easy enough to handle country-specific differences.

[@sebkeccu4546]

@@Berkeloid0 In europe all countries are alligned about wifi and cell phone frequencies. (because the borders are so close) that's why we also have a channel 12 and 13 on wifi 2,4ghz (2 extra bands to use)

[@edinfific2576]

How far are the buildings from each other, is the land flat, any hills or obstacles in the way? I have used ordinary WiFi router with a standard omni antenna and have had a decent connection at over 100 meters (300+ feet). I even reached over 300 meters, but the connection is unstable and relatively slow. This is with direct line without obstacles. Using better routers with directional antennas, I could definitely get much better results, but I wanted to see what the typical off-the-shelf routers can do. Specific brand AND model of a router or a WiFi extender are also important: I did a side-by-side comparison of 3 different TP-Link routers plus one Tenda, and while I sometimes got mixed results (maybe my phone was slow in updating all results), most of the time my TP-Link OneMesh router had the best signal, followed TP-Link EAP, then TP-Link "Extended Range" (not really), then a Tenda. Difference was sometimes minor (1dB), sometimes significant (few dBs, meaning 2-3 times stronger signal).

[@skippern666]

Most buildings are within 100m of each other so off the shelf WiFi products might work, but there is a building 5-600m from the test, all buildings have line of sight to main building, so being strategic with antenna locations I might get away with a limited number of antenas. Use range extenders to reach the building further away is out of the question as each extender would need to be mounted in weather proof boxes with power sources.

[@SegNode]

Fantastic video! I've never heard of this standard but you presented it in such a concise and easy to understand way that it was a pleasure to watch.

[@Ice_Karma]

For the very little it's worth, some friends with amateur radio licenses had 802.11b running at the full 11 Mbps, over a 20-mile point-to-point link implemented _without_ line-of-sight, with directional antennas and a 1 W amplifier. [Edited to add 'with amateur radio licenses']

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

Don't you need firmware hacks there so packets don't get dropped due to expiration? I heard that becomes a bigger problem with regular Wifi at around the 1 mile mark even under ideal conditions. Or is b already lenient enough in that regard? The people I think of probably exclusively tired faster standards.

[@Ice_Karma]

@@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece It's a bit over 20 years ago now (which I see now I forgot to mention in my original comment), but as far as I recall, everything was unmodified, commodity equipment.

[@major__kong]

If it is an issue, some WiFi routers let you adjust those settings. If not, find a router that will run OpenWRT firmware. I think it exposes those settings.

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

@@major__kong Okay, my info was old, it would make sense that those insights would have been used like that in the meantime.

[@robsyoutube]

You just need to adjust the ack timing timeout variable. Theres hundreds of companys that make outdoor based wifi gear. Camium, Ubiquiti, Mikrotik are the three biggest. I ran links upwards of 30KM on 5ghz. I also did PTMP under 15km links on 900mhz, 2.4ghz 5ghz, and very sort distances on 60ghz (under 2KM) @@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece

[@cool_dude_lion1191]

Great Video, I work in the techical side of live events and one unique advantage of wifi HaLow that i see, but have yet to to test, is the fact that its not congested compared to 2.4/5ghz which is partically important for reliable wireless system in crowed venues. To my knowlage its the only solution to get a semi long range wireless network link to somthing like a roaming camrea. Defanitly looking forward to running tests partically for getting wireless digital comms data, tallys light data, ccu control, etc to wireless camreas.

[@kwaaiwolf4603]

Keen to hear any findings specifically for those use cases

[@Hennie1254]

6Ghz is not really available yet so that could be a good option in the future. But if you have line of sight, 60Ghz might also be an option to connect the FoH to the stage. But it is very focused so not suitable for moving parts.

[@kwaaiwolf4603]

@@Hennie1254yeah point to point/ foh to stage/truck to dc is not where I’d use something like this. But for tally, ccu and maybe even comms of roaming camera rigs this could be interesting.

[@Hennie1254]

@@kwaaiwolf4603 and I would also use this as backup. Or if the production budget is so low/ timing is so tight you can’t afford to pull cable. (Load in and out)

[@kwaaiwolf4603]

@@Hennie1254as a backup to what protocol running on a hardwired ethernet?

[@Rurraloxminecraft]

Got recommend this by the algorithm, do you mind making more wireless networking videos? I'd love to learn more!

[@BenJefferyCanada]

Thanks! I have some other partially-done wireless videos and some ideas for more, so hopefully I'll have some more videos soon.

[@notreal5311]

Great explanation in the beginning when you laid out frequencies in an easily understandable format and talked about the different types of wifi standards. Great video. I think setting up a solar panel with some 18650s and an AP or camera would be a big hit and probably not too much lift on your end with components on hand.

[@i.b.lancer]

I'm here because I'm doing research on the Yarbo Yard Robot that uses the HaLOW standard along with RTK. This was a very informative video, thanks.

[@SB-pf5rc]

i'm so happy i came across this excellently edited video on /r/hardware! my barn is going to have internet!! no more walking back to the house to figure out how to fix stuff!!!

[@pensiveidea]

Wow, great video! Appreciate the relevant informative images that adds context to well curated information. And thank you for no annoying background music with a professional and easy listening voice over.

[@25566]

This is great!! Another use case would be connecting your electric car charger to the internet on a multi story building, you can't usually run Ethernet to it. Car firmware updates would also be easier since you would have your own wifi within reach.

[@duckner]

​@@IntegerOfDoomlike a bike

@@IntegerOfDoomand pay for highly taxed gas instead of charging your EV with energy that‘s practically free.

[@planefan082]

​​@@IntegerOfDoomCan you elaborate? Either way, an EV is going to be the only option in 12 years (in most countries bans come into place)

[@alainportant6412]

"Car firmware updates" lmao get out of here with that shit 😂😂

[@Octahedran]

@@alainportant6412 Yeah that's my main concern with EVs besides the rest of the concerns. Good EVs haven't been around for long enough to be able to buy a car without DRM or spyware

[@scoutg001]

I was actually doing some research on 802.11ah before coming across your video because I was configuring a mesh wifi system for a client and noticed the satellite APs supported ah which I never heard of and couldn't find much info on and it wasn't even in any of my a+ or net+ cert material, so this video sheds a lot of light, it also sheds soke light on a project a friend of mine is working on to convert his drone to use digital communication rather than analog so he can get a consistent 1080p video feed using what he called a "stripped wifi standard" and after hearing about ah, that's probably what's being used by the transceiver he bought.

[@joefishtale]

When I was in college I had built a computer into my Chrysler labaron using a Point of sale 9” crt into the dash. I had to run an Ethernet cord out to it to transfer files originally, or burn a cd w MP3’s and transfer it that way. Then I stumbled across an early version of a file transfer USB dongle that used 900mhz. It claimed 1mb/sec which was pretty fast at the time. When I used it, it would transfer a 3mb mp3 file over the course of 15 minutes. It was pretty cool uploading a dozen or so songs into my car over night and showing my friends. This was back in 1999, when no one had mp3 in their car. I even ran an IDE cable from the trunk up to the dash to plug into a DVD player but the throughput was too slow. Here we are decades later and I ran across this video about 900mhz WiFi. Brings back some memories.

[@MrFluffyChik3n]

S tier clarity, narration, and editing. I hope the algorithm takes you far.

[@jrherita]

Thanks for the rundown on HaLOW!. Your experiments remind me doing ‘cantenna’ (pringles can + 802.11b) experiments years ago for ~ 1 kilometer point to point, but not general purpose like this.

[@JamieKohns]

I've tried both the systems shown here - through trees, I get barely 10 Mbps down, and 2 up at 100m, when clear line-of-sight is possible. At the same distance, with a single tree in the path, it dropped to that 1-2 Mbps down, with sub-1 Mbps up. With a small thicket of trees, there's a complete dropout at 80m

[@JasonWald]

ouch! Just killed my idea. Thanks for the heads up.

[@BobHannent]

I'm getting ~15Mbps at >600m through one tree. But I am using a log periodic at one end and a cheap TV antenna at the other.

[@jakubiskra523]

​@@JasonWaldthere are signals amplifiers, but your phone might not deliver signal to this router

[@theterriblegamer1228]

10 Mbps is about as fast as a 900Mhz waveform can carry. That's why basic WiFi uses 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. The higher the frequency the more dense the waveform and the more data you can push over it at the cost of distance and line-of-sight requirements. 900Mhz can pass through lots of physical mass, but is slow. 5Ghz or 60Ghz wifi (often found in most point to point wifi solutions) are faster, but need clear line of sight to work. A 900Mhz at 10Mbps point to point is probably fine for access to a shed or outbuilding, but not for critical network devices.

[@BobHannent]

@@theterriblegamer1228 that's not correct, read the HaLow specification, it clearly lays out what is possible and I've actually seen it get 15Mbps.

[@CarmineIannace]

Great video! I'd love to see more videos like this on 802.11ah. One recent advancement that really no one has covered is the 802.11ax (Wifi 6) range improvements specifically on 2.4 GHz. Most reviews on 802.11ax are related to speed on 5 GHz and none on the implementation of OFDMA, which is built into WiFi 6, on 2.4 GHz in particular in a rural setting. One aspect of OFDMA is that it can increase range and is fully compatible with modern smartphones and laptops. I use a TP-link EAP610-Outdoor AP in a very rural setting and have seen some notable range improvements in fringe areas past 700 or 800 feet. The funny thing in the TP-link implementation of WiFi 6 is that OFDMA is off by default and needs to be enabled through the web interface. Go figure.

[@BenJefferyCanada]

In the wireless ISP community, there's a lot of excitement over WiFi 6 based products because of how it behaves at lower signal levels and in noisier environments. At work, we've been trying out some Cambium ePMP 4500 equipment that uses WiFi 6 and we've definitely seen way better performance and reliability at lower signal levels compared to previous 802.11ac equipment, meaning we can connect more people and get faster speeds to them.

[@rzimbauer]

Along this vein, I'd love to see a range/speed/obstacle test comparing wifi 6 ax - 2.4GHz vs ah halow

[@alexatkin]

@@BenJefferyCanada My own experience has been 2.4Ghz 802.11n decreased right down to 20Mbit at home due to interference. Moving to WiFi 6 instantly pushed that back up to 60-70Mbit. It also seemed to eliminate huge latency spikes in my brief testing. Never got to test at range though.

[@CarmineIannace]

@@BenJefferyCanada I've been doing some testing with the EAP610-Outdoor AP I have. On 2.4 GHz I have the bandwidth set at a standard 20 MHz and have lowered the 5 GHz bandwidth to 20 Mhz (from 80) as well. There has been a notable increase in range to my iPhone 13 AX client. I am giving up speed for range but 20 MHz on 5 GHz is still fast enough.

[@Weshwey_]

Hey Ben, thanks for making this video. Never heard about this standard up until now, very informative. Also appreciate the little details such as providing measurements in both meters and feet :)

[@ChielScape]

10:34 Yes. I just wanna sometimes use my laptop from my garage. If a device can do 802.11ax, ah should be a piece of cake to integrate in the next generation of hardware. 8-16Mbit is plenty fast for basic internet use.

[@JustinvEmst]

Hope that you can do an extra episode with the external antennes

[@frosty9595]

45 seconds in and you already won my heart only showing the actual 2.4ghz channels.

[@btudrus]

Depends on where you live...

[@frosty9595]

@@btudrus not really. Some countries technically allow up to 13 but it's not actually useful. They just did it since 11 spans those channels anyways. 14 is allowed in Japan but only for the B standard.

[@btudrus]

@@frosty9595 "Some countries technically allow up to 13 but it's not actually useful. " Of course it is...

[@frosty9595]

@@btudrus please tell me how 13 is useful. A 20mhz 2.4ghz wifi channel takes up two adjacent channels. Your non overlapping channel count with 11 numbered channels is 3. With 13 numbered channels your non overlapping count is still.... 3. Hence why I said they count to 13 only because 11 overlaps those frequencies anyways.

[@btudrus]

@@frosty9595 you can have 4 independant 20mhz channels which only marginally disturb each other...

[@carneeki]

Friend of mine is building racecar in the style of an old formula one car. I've been tasked with designing and building a bunch of sensors for it, using can bus to store all the data on an sd card but thinking something similar to this might be an option for getting the data off the card and onto a computer as he pulls into the pits. Thanks for the tip on this Rf tech :D

[@alydev23]

I've never heard of this standard before either, fascinating video. It's too bad the chipsets are fairly expensive, the pi hats would be an extremely nifty addition to distributed IoT devices for high bandwidth applications, like cameras mounted at ranges that make normal wifi infeasible, or even site to site links on a campus.

[@camerons.8322]

I think that would be great in something like a warehouse setting where you may have handheld scanners taking product inventory.

[@jeffreyfaidley6679]

great, super useful evaluation!!!! I'm going to try this at our farm to hopefully allow remote security cam and opening functionality for the entry gate 1600ft away. I may be pushing the range/bandwidth requirements but it help to be in a very rural area (zero interference) with mostly direct LOS if I use more directional antennas. Two thumbs up. Thanks!

[@MacGuyver85]

Wireless can easily be jammed so don't depend on it for security.

[@major__kong]

You can always try a directional antenna if bandwidth or range isn't enough.

[@timfoster5043]

Definitely a product I could use for occasional clients who need basic data speeds through foliage. Thanks.

[@G5Ckxew]

Top notch content for a relatively unknown channel. Subscribed!

[@jonfr]

This standard in Europe uses 863 to 868Mhz and 917.4 to 919.4Mhz and is limited to 1Mhz bandwidth.

[@nitrosake]

I really would've liked some tests with the other antennas. Especially the directed ones. Awesome video!

[@stefa168]

Great video, never heard of the standard before. Indeed as you said, this would be a great alternative for smart home and home automation. I've done a lot in the last two years and the main issue with current Thread or Zigbee products is that their transmission power is very low. My house has very thick walls, so I had to use lots of repeater nodes. 802.11ah would be pretty useful, having stronger penetration.

[@BillAnt]

It's probably best to stick with well knows popular standards for the availability of more equipment.

[@stefa168]

@@BillAnt Absolutely!

[@CalebKennizzite]

Very interesting video; Thank you! I had no idea this small but inherently “beefy” part of the spectrum was even an option for WiFi applications.

[@callowaysutton]

This honestly seems like a dream come true for drone swarms!

[@DanielSMatthews]

Good to pair with a differential GPS setup for cm scale accuracy on farm scale operations for tracking all maned and autonomous vehicles? Aside from the sensor/actuator network benefits.

[@mulad]

I often think about ways to cheaply deploy real-time arrival displays for bus stops, which tend to be a minimum of 100m / 330ft apart in my area, and are more efficiently spaced around 400m / 1300ft apart, and can sometimes have 1km or greater spacing. This would probably be easier to deal with than LoRa, since it has the bandwidth for standard HTTPS, and could allow audio announcements with little or no delay.

[@RyanReich-CivicSi]

Welcome back to the Tube! Very informative without being boring. I have a CWNA Cert and still learned something. 🎉

[@robertkeyes258]

Interesting. The muni-wifi project of my small town has been a failure so far because of the failure of the father expensive 2.4 ghz devices to be able to penetrate some buildings and foliage to link two sites, in spite of one of them being in a church spire. 900 mhz might be able to do this. Many years ago, I worked on putting up Muni-WiFi in Cambridge Massachusetts with much more primitive equipment. It's amazing how far the technology has advanced. I was also a partner in copy 22 years ago that make phased-array vertical antennas for 2.4 ghz, but our cost of production was high and once the big companies got involved we were finished.

[@gehteuchnixan8256]

This would have been of use for me about 10 years ago, when we had to dig up the street for putting an optical fibre to a new lot with a shipment hall. The halls distance was about 400m from the outsides. As the shipment hall only needs small data packages, like a printing job protocol, a barcode, a text block with the customers name + address, the 16Mbit would have been way enough. Mayby another day this knowledge will become useful.

[@cuisinartOH1]

The YT algorithm brought me to your channel and I am glad it did. I am K8MEJ and I love all things wireless. My first thought was “I wonder if my smartphone supports this protocol? It sounds like a way to give basic internet access to those of us going to mountain bike races in areas with no other cellular coverage. A Starlink connection as back haul good at least give messaging capabilities to a few hundred racers, spectators, and support crews. But, my iPhone doesn’t appear to have a radio for that band.

[@BenJefferyCanada]

Thanks! I saw on Newracom's KZbin page that they had some sort of proof of concept Android device with the chipset installed, but outside of that I haven't seen any trace of it installed in a production smartphone. I imagine a USB C dongle that presents itself to Android as a USB Ethernet dongle could allow for a fairly "plug and play" experience with existing devices, and I think that's how Alfa's USB C product works. Otherwise, having a central mast with the 802.11ah AP could allow for some battery/solar powered APs spread around to distribute plain 2.4GHz 802.11 WiFi access. I also envisioned something like a Motorola DTR700 900MHz portable radio with data capabilities such as SMS and GPS tracking like you get on DMR systems, with a built-in WiFi AP to get internet access on a mobile device.

[@davidatcomfortinn7594]

I use the Alpha 2H and 2HP to connect cameras to our NVR. They work great for that. I’ve also considered using them as a low speed backup feed between businesses for internet outages should one property have an outage. We probably install a Ubiquiti solution at another location, two businesses about a block away from each other and across a freeway. One has Fiber, the other doesn’t.

[@SapioiT]

Linus Tech Tips has a few videos on the topic of getting high-speed internet between properties with line-of-sight on the roof. You might be interested in watching those videos before making the decision, if you want high speed. But even without high-speed, with self-hosted apps, you can communicate between the buildings even if the internet and the cellphone services happen to be down at the same time. Edit: Also very useful for preppers, because slow local internet or intranet is much better than no internet and no intranet at all. And the repeater function paired with directional antennas could even be used for things like getting much cheaper internet in third world countries. Especially if it comes packaged with a list of lower-bandwidth custom-clients for popular apps (i.e. for discord, the existing facebook lite and messenger lite, and so on). Even the 8 Mbps, which translate to 1 MB/s of real-life file download speeds, are good-enough for plenty of use-cases. Also, depending on how good it is at going through brick walls, it might be usable to get wifi signal inside backyard bunkers. But it's most useful for people with a property which gets internet access a long distance from where the house is or from a point of interest (i.e. a work-in-progress construction on the opposite corner of the property). Might even be useful for getting internet access on hiking trails, because, as someone else said in a comment, a small solar panel and some battery can make it run indefinitely, or at least work indefinitely during the day. Could also be used to have multiple people share the same internet, for example someone getting a corporate internet package, and reselling the internet to everyone who wants to pay a fraction of the price for a fraction of the internet (i.e. basically what many private dorms do). But, honestly, the most widespread use-case might actually be using it to get wifi in all the rooms of old houses with very thick concrete or brick walls, as well as using the home wifi in the car or in the city without using up the mobile data of your phone. And if the technology keeps evolving, we might see such technology be used in handheld PCs, for LAN/WAN gaming at large distances. For example, you could be in a corner of a mall playing with someone from the opposite corner of the mall without using the mall's wifi network. And people who live on a mountain where they don't have internet access because the mountain blocks the signal, such a device could be used to deliver the internet from a place where it is accessible (i.e. a shack on top of the mountain) to a place where it is not accessible (i.e. in a valley of the mountain or a valley between mountains). For example, you could use them to get internet access in USA's Grand Canyon.

[@bodhiench]

@@SapioiT I won't discredit Linus Tech Tips. However, sticking with what I'm familiar with and not have to figure out a new GUI has its merits. For the most part, the Alpha Tubes have just worked for me. I had two and adding a third was as simple as downloading a configuration file from one and uploading it to the third. After years of use, one went down and (because I buy them in two packs) having another on hand made it as simple again, just needing to remember how to log into the existing setup being the only challenge. Unifi/Ubiquiti devices is what I have the most experience with, along with some Cisco. They have site-to-site antennas that pairs up with a click of a button, alignment indicators for the antenna, and a 6 gbps transmission speed and a 500 meter range. A bit expensive at $499 a pair plus the required equipment that goes along with it - which I already have installed anyhow. Honestly I can probably get away with a couple of the LD AP's, but this is just a few dollars more with better weather protection to boot. The AlphaTubes were, if I remember correctly, $299 for the pair with much, much slower speeds. Our existing equipment already supplies great internet in businesses and houses. Got a dead zone? Add another AP without the worry if your existing equipment supports the 802.11h standard. I've done houses where the client wasn't happy with any existing device on the market except for the Ubiquiti solution I installed; even a 5,000 sq ft house with 3 access points had great coverage, though the client eventially had me add a 4th. His brother had me do his house and I put two in; he loves his as well. I use a smaller Dream Router that gives me great speed with its single access point. One location, a housing unit used by the CalPoly, has 23 access points and absolutely no complaints with rock-solid coverage in every corner.

[@virescenticious]

Was randomly recommended this video, very appreciated as I had completely missed the release of this standard. All the typical techtubers are always hyping the newest billion mbps wifi that costs $500 for one AP and goes 20m lol. 15mbps is completely fine for most internet usage, but I used dial-up and adsl for years so maybe that lets me appreciate it more. If I really wanted speed I’d rather run a cable out than mess with finicky or expensive high speed wireless links imo. So yeah might pick up one of these gadgets myself. Thanks for the video.

[@BillAnt]

Every young'uns should be forced to use ASL for a week to truly appreciate the speeds nowadays. lol

[@SapioiT]

Honestly, I think there should be some research into extending the bandwith range, to fit more simultaneous channels, which could allow (1) higher speeds for more power usage, or (2) more separate networks with minimal or no interferences.

[@montecorbit8280]

Just found this video today, on the strength of this video alone I subscribed to your channel. If possible, could you do a video on long range wi-fi?? Few years ago I read about people able to go up to 100 km with various shenanigans. Also, could you look into "Wi-MAX"?? I don't find a whole lot of information on that....

[@BenJefferyCanada]

Thanks! I have some videos planned to show point-to-point WiFi devices for 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, some of which can go many kilometers using directional antennas on each end to focus the signal in one direction. I work on some of those long microwave links to connect remote communities, so I might be able to go over some of it in a future video. Another potential future video could involve showing off some legacy/obsolete wireless broadband equipment, such as WiMAX, which was a bizarre standard used for some mobile and fixed broadband services.

[@montecorbit8280]

@@BenJefferyCanada I thought Wi-MAX was a continuing endeavor and not a legacy system?? Guess I'm a little dated!! The specific Wi-Fi I was thinking of was I believe in Italy and they were measuring a volcano. They were using 2.4GHz Wi-Fi over a 196km run, or there abouts. Thinking about it, I may have read about it in "Linux Journal", but I am not sure of that.... It has been a while since I read that article. I believe about that time I got my first wireless router, an 802.11n compliant system from Belkin. (I used wired before that, exclusively.) Thank you for replying, I hope your holidays have been most excellent and will continue to be most excellent!! Monte

[@tuqe]

I’d love to see someone test mesh WiFi with your level of detail!

[@williambrennan5701]

It's amazing I remember in the '90s the 900 MHz phones were the best. then everything went 2.4 and the range dropped significantly. It's come around full circle.

[@MegaBlindy]

This is so cool… might pick up a couple of these to play around as I live quite high up

[@a11aaa11a]

Heh I worked on the 3.5 GHz band, yeah it needs a much beefier setup but we still got it to something like 100x less costly than typical LTE so it's very useful for any larger commercial operations. Not for basic smart home stuff, though there is (was? Haven't kept up with it) a general access tier for which I pushed strongly that's open without the license auction. Really wanted to get a mesh system in the spec for general access so range could be extended but I couldn't get anyone else on board because the roi on the development was prob negative. Wish this were mesh too! Meshtastic works nicely for that but like you mention it's not nearly the same level of throughput

[@user-zr7kz4vs7c]

Great review! by the way, if you are publish more speed test video (e.g voip) will be great. I love the tech on 802.11ah Wi-Fi HaLOW!! And the youtube channel techflow just made a video about 1Km Range on 802.11ah wifi devices.

[@braselectron]

Great review, tks! This is just what I was looking to use as a wireless door webcam for a small building of 5 floors and avoid having to change the old voice intercom system. I believe it will work fine. Also to avoid having to use cable to difficult locations in the building like the roof and service areas at the garage.

[@audas]

Can I just say it's great to include some links to things that you found. I buy all the things in your video and would want this for my IOT things outside.

[@Levi_OP]

Fantastic video! I love a good technical video about an obscure standard I’ve never heard of. Keep up the good work! I hope you continue to produce more amazing content! You’ve earned my subscription

[@yuprulesing]

This was super interesting, thank you for this video! Learned quite a bit about 802.11ah.

[@InconsistentManner]

essentially 2.75G Edge but with 30 years of advancements... But i am serious now. i'm glad you made this video. solved a problem that i needed a true mobile solution. Thank You

[@francocastilloAR]

"2.75G Edge" falls short of this.

[@hightechhippie9909]

I'm working on a DIY smart trail camera setup for my grandfather, been looking for a way to get a bunch of raspberry pi based cameras a LAN connection throughout a few hunting spots on his 50ish acres. This seems perfect for getting a signal from way out in his woods back to the house, probably going to have to go with unidirectional antenna. The goal is to setup a dozen or so cameras in a few different clusters around the property, have them all live feed to his PC where I'll install a coral ai co-processor and setup some image recognition model to tell him in real time when a deer or turkey is there, might even try to get a behavioral analysis model so he can get a notification on his phone saying "there's a 6 point buck at camera 1 heading west at 2 mph actively seeking a mate" or when they're bedded down, or in rut, whatever the case may be

[@jameshatton4211]

Just wanted to say thank you for this as I would have never found this solution and it is exactly what is required for a farm property here in Australia 👍 Your test was perfect to demonstrate the capability of this product enough for me to be confident that it will be suitable. I live very far away from the property that I need to fit something like this to, and I really didn't like the idea of trying to support a very customised antenna array that would take a lot of time and effort to construct in the first place only for it to be possibly still not suitable? I was looking everywhere for any kind of wireless in the low frequency range MHz not GHz and I couldn't for the life of me find anything what so ever? I read someone's post already that it doesn't clash with the 900mhz cellular reserved channels so that's already a plus. I do agree with a small SOC and some RAM that you could possibly get more granular control over the bandwidth and packets per channel as it would just be faster at processing with active compute rather than passive with some single threaded code trying it's best working overtime with no resources oh and power limitations? Let the halo chip do it's job handling what it's good at and let the soc and ram handle the number crunching that could bottle neck and affect performance negatively? Either way it's still awesome to see that this tech is available and I don't need to develop or code anything and don't need to waste lots of time driving both testing and diagnosing! Cheers again for this video you've helped me in such a tremendous way thank you

[@explosivelybrilliant]

This was very well produced and presented! Nice work!

[@sonictech1000]

You do a great job with your videos and should consider posting more often.

[@RedJay]

This is a great video. Good work Ben.

[@__Brandon__]

Your channel is a diamond in the ruff. Just found it, keep up the good work

[@cliftonchurch6039]

This could be interesting for people who enjoy camping but still enjoy access to streaming content. Imagine a campground having 802.11ah connection and have devices they can rent out to campers. The camper is responsible for providing power to the device (battery bank, generator, car) but it will give you WiFi that can do at least basic streaming. You can watch a movie or whatever on your phone or projected in your tent or whatever. It would allow for nature appreciation and "roughing it" without being completely disconnected.

[@audas]

Just found your channel - its really good. Thanks.

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

Very interesting video! I have to look at the devices mentioned here, if they are available for frequencies in Europe/Norway. I expect I might have to use a directional antenna, to improve the signal through vegetation.

[@lenwhatever4187]

Way back when a and ab were all that was there, the stated use distance was 25km.... with the right power,/antenna mix. The speed was 1.5Mb but then ADSL speeds were similar anyway at the time. Very much line of site and the antenna gain had to be high which required good aiming. This looks better, both speed and ease of use. up to 1Km is probably more than good enough for what anyone tries to do these days.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

With a classic old Linksys router and the 2 standard antennas, the router about 40 feet up, I was able to detect it with a netbook as far as 0.3 miles away. 802.11b FHSS in a suburban environment.

[@rf_dude]

Your documentation hit home with the tractor suggestion. No cellular sunshine at the farm, so a robust link to a tractor with 802.11ah to 802.11n conversion would be great. Or a NLOS thru tree's PtP link to an amateur radio repeater location for telemetry, like you show with a Renogy charge controller. Remote cameras another great application. 1 Mbps would be sufficient in these cases. LORA or Meshtastic is too slow. Cost and simplicity comparison with off-the-shelf 5GHz link to a 2.4GHz directional gain AP (as with 10dBi gain antenna). The question is if the use case is too rare to see expanded commercial offerings. Thanks for the video!

[@Pyroteq]

This is super interesting to me. I go to a gun club that is just under 1.2km from my house and the cellular reception there is awful. If you stand in a certain spot you MIGHT get a single bar for 30 seconds. I wonder if a directional antenna from my property would be capable of providing a low quality internet service there - Just enough to use Wifi calling and maybe some very light web browsing. It would have to go through quite a lot of bush land so it would be pushing this sort of equipment to the absolute limits. I'd also want a product that could be PoE powered on both ends. Perhaps a product that included everything in one kit including the antenna would be ideal. If I could use that as a proof of concept I'd bet a lot of people in my area would be interested as I live in a semi-rural area.

[@CubbyTech]

Thanks for covering this! I think directional antennas would really help here :)

[@ML-cr7ds]

would you consider putting links to the products you've used, in the description?

[@Neural-Awakening]

Fantastic! Thank you so much this video is awesome! I have tried to explain this to so many people in so many different ways but communication is hard, so now I just need to show them this video!

[@shoego]

This would be a great asset for comunication within my farm. I am going to look into getting one of those repeaters for myself.

[@Kardall]

Very neat. Did you happen to be able to test multiple devices on the single AP? I am just curious if it could replace point to point broadcast systems, where you would have an omni directional in the center of a property, and several out-buildings that run monitoring equipment. I used to install systems like that for Chicken/Pig/Cattle farms, where they often had monitoring equipment for moisture/temperature etc., and they would want to connect it back to their main office on the property. So we would put up like a75ft tower with a big omni directional antenna on it to cover about a 300 meter radius, Then we'd just connect a directional antenna on each building pointing back. But With the ability to go through simple structures/hills/dense foliage, that actually sounds like a fairly ideal solution that seems a lot cheaper than the antennas and towers required. I would just be concerned with that AP's ability to handle say 8 or 9 remote buildings at the same time with constant data traffic.

[@cynic5581]

Like you mentioned I would be worried about network congestion in already congested areas. I can see 36 wifi networks (7 of them obvious guest networks) from my couch. I’d hate to think what that would be if you only doubled the range. Also I’m always concerned with security. I don’t want my wifi data transmitted any further than necessary regardless of encryption and other security features. Not being a target in the first place seems like a much more secure approach than buckle down your network on top of that.

[@CaptZenPetabyte]

I think the 900Mhz is getting free'd up as LoRa in a lot of countries are using stuff on that band and it is getting more and more supported because of Meshtastic

[@AM-dn4lk]

I think 900mhz was a great option for remote access without a clear line of sight. Too bad the market demand was low, so it is gone. I wish it did not go though. We use cameras remotely and the 900mhz was our only terrestrial solution. It was good. I do think there is still a good market for 900mhz products.

[@peppigue]

dect uses 900 and is quite widespread i think. edit: no, i misremembered, it's around 1.9ghz

[@JonnyWaldes]

maybe you can get good deals on obsolete 900mhz antennas?

[@brodriguez11000]

@@peppigue n8 (900Mhz) as part of 5G NR cell phones.

[@stepannovotny4291]

This would be great somehow integrated into OpenWRT so that it can show up as a radio in the admin GUI, though that would probably imply use of halo USB dongles.

[@AerialWaviator]

Excellent useful content. Would be interesting to see what kind of security video can be transmitted over HaLOW WiFi. (eg: Mbps bandwidth vs. distance). Could also be interesting to experiment with different antennas like an yagi to focus beam in a more point to point style, to create a remote hotspot area. (out building, etc). For low power and remote IoT like weather station, etc, very practical option. Had heard of the standard, but had not realized low(er) cost devices where available.

[@NSaw1]

Dang if I had known about this before I probably would have gotten it. I stay at work for a few days a week and im about 1,200ft away from the router, has a few walls and trees between my place and it. We are also off grid, so definitely would be nice to not be using 15~w all the time! And I get under 10mbps with the 2.4ghz antenna still. Also I think it's super cool that this video got so much attention! It was very good! I hope ya get a good amount of subscribers too!

[@adriftatlas]

Apple was at one point considering using 900MHz to communicate between iPhones. It was called Off Grid Radio Service or OGRS. Seems 802.11ah would have been the ideal protocol for that.

[@tankfire20]

I love this. Most of the time we dont actually need fast speeds just reliablity.

[@AMacProOwner]

Had no idea about this. Thanks for sharing!

[@BinaryCounter]

A few years ago i lived at a place that had a forrest with really nice park bench, around 200m from my home. I attempted multiple times to get my wifi to reach there so i could work on my laptop from that nice location. This would've been incredibly useful.

[@rudfish]

Ben, thanks I have a ranch where I’ve been trying to get a WiFi signal to a a parcel that’s about 1km/1000 yards away line of sight. I’m running Starlink to a Orbi system to feed the main ranch system. So I’m intrigued in building a solar/ battery system and then link devices from there. This may help….or I have hope.

[@BenJefferyCanada]

Thanks! I have a video in the works about some faster point to point wireless devices that could let you get more of your Starlink connection's speed to distances that far. I've also been getting into solar lately and I'd expect solar powered WiFi would make for an interesting video.

[@torist043]

Great review and summary. I am though a bit disappointed regarding the range you get since I have myself run 802.11b over one kilometer with small omnidirectional antennas so it should be possible get at least double that with properly set up directional antennas.

[@Hammster1911]

Thanks for this video, i'm going to use this for getting internet into my new garage close by. The only other option I had so far was LoRaWAN but the 22kb/s would not really do the job except for terminal use.

[@IvanMarjanovicLDN]

Hi Ben, thank you for such a great, practical overview of HaLow. It could be quite interesting comparing HaLow to LoRa LPWAN in terms of IoT devices for consumers. Also, in terms of carrier grade P2P Wi-Fi it could be interesting comparing HaLow to TV White Space. I hope this helps. Kind regards

[@AndrewMackoul]

It would be awesome if smartphones supported this! Imagine if they can connect directly with each other like walkie-talkies.

[@Mike-dp7yg]

There was a push to talk walkie talkie network that Telus in Canada and Motorola made phones called "Mike phones" that were popular for construction workers around 2005..

[@ve2jgs]

If smart phones supported it then probably your data plan would be consumed , despite the direct connection. We need a way around that!

Interesting, never heard about it before. Is this operating in the 865 MHz ISM band in the EU?

[@TheFalschspieler]

It can,especially the first product he showed goes down to 720MHz even, but not sure if the at command exe has an at command to set the european range

[@peterensor1552]

Good video. If you are going to do some more testing, I would be interested in seeing how it travels through a multi story concrete building. Like other comments, I am trying to get to a basement carpark but I want to connect my charger to wifi. The OCPP protocol should be lightweight so this would be a good solution. I tried with a PLC but the distance and power phasing was against me.

[@SapioiT]

If you try this, let us know how it goes. Good luck!

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

I'm looking for a HaLow-link. Primarily for IOT, but possibly traffic from mobile devices as well, to save mobile-data (and devices without mobile data). Very curious about performance through some forest and terrain. I quickly gave up using my old 5GHz outdoor POE WiFi-link, because the power is lost through the forest. edit: the HaLow band for Europe/Norway is what's interesting to me.

[@bjoern.photography]

from what I understand this wifi standard overlaps with lte/licence fequences in many countries

[@francocastilloAR]

Not necessarily. Networks on that frequency use 10 MHz at most. Maybe 15.

[@mike95826]

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to manufacture some products using 900 MHz and the new protocol. I have a client (a radio station) that wants to piggy back on their 900 MHz studio to transmitter link to get a security camera and other alarm and control devices at the transmitter site. I have to look at the available products to see if the power is sufficient for the path length even with good high gain Scala dishes.

[@EVPaddy]

Well, I have had a 5 Ghz link over 10 kms for years (directional antennas and power a bit higher than you should :) ) and that worked fine (was my internet uplink until I got starlink recently)

[@PAPO1990]

This is awesome, I REALLY hope we see some decent adoption, but I'd love to see a sub-2Ghz band added as well (above 1Ghz though) it should fill an interesting long range, medium bandwidth niche. Though I'd probably prefer the sub 2Ghz band be rolled into normal WiFi for the sake of convenience, but being fully IP compatible, it's would be too hard to have a WiFi AP, AND an 802.11ah AP as well.

[@elfnetdesigns702]

900 MHz bridges have been a thing since the late 90's, they were not widely marketed to the public but rather to public services to link MDT's (Mobile Data Terminals) back to a base station at the dispatchers console. Data rates were of course slow in the low Kbps range but that was all that was needed to send and receive lines of text and no images. Most systems like this were used by police and fire services to send and receive status updates and reports, Cab companies also used them in a similar way to send and receive calls to prevent rouge cabs (fake cabs not affiliated with the company) from jumping fares like they would with traditional 2-way radio. Faster 900 MHz gear though didn't start popping up until early 2000's and the first ones I saw in use was at a drag boat racing event held by Lucas Oil in 2006 where they had a 900 MHZ link from their main control site to a boat ramp nearly 1/2 a mile away. This link supported internet traffic as well as the system they were using to send the racers ticket data to be printed out for the pair that just finished racing.

[@garycotz563]

Awesome job.... I would have done exactly the same sort of testing, raw and typical use cases. THANKS!

[@justawfulgamer7738]

I hope this tech catches on. Very useful

[@jimmymifsud1]

It’s like old news, that’s new again. We had 900mhz wifi networks for a long time in Australia, usually run in a mesh network and you can get a few Mbps over 900mhz mesh

[@skwira000]

Yeah the use for it is someone who is on a lake. I can pickup 2.4 GHz out about 275 yards from an access point inside the cabin. The cabin has wood walls and I put the access point right in the corner where there's likely a gap in the insulation. I'm going to get that Halow device that can go to USB-C to my iPad because the cellular service is terrible when a bunch of people are at the lake cabin on say 4th of July and other busy weekends. On the 2.4 GHz, I'm pulling around 1 Mbps from 275 yards. I guess I was trolling in my boat in a circle and the range was from about 800 Kbps to 1.2 Mbps and enough to get a Direct TV live stream. But HaLow should expand this beyond light almost line of sight to spots where I cannot see the cabin.

[@nazgullinux6601]

That low power consumption would be amazing for a wide-area mesh network using 10W solar panels with Maxwell 2.7V 3000F caps as a module and charge controller for standalone mesh nodes!

[@Megatog615]

considering how terrible aliexpress search is, could you put shop links into the video description? i'm interested in the extender thing.