Scandi grind or Flat grind on a Bushcraft knife?

[@CandidZulu]

I grew up in a very outdoor life type of environment in Sweden. I had a stepdad who was Sami, and who made Sami style knives. The problem I have with modern day "Bushcrafters" is that they often look for the ideal knife - That one knife that will do everything! In northern Sweden (and Finland) it was common to see experienced hunters with several knives on their belt. No one would even try to find one knife that would do everything well. The only knife with a true scandi grind would have been one used for fine wood work, or a new one that was not sharpened since it left the factory. Usually the knife would end up with a scandivex style of blade. I've heard many older people say that an old knife that was left with a narrow scandivex blade was their favorite general use blade. Thick blade stock was considered useless. I have yet to see any area of human civilisation so full of BS as the knife business. A knife is a VERY simple tool. All it is is a flat piece of steel with and apex along one (or two) sides. If it's thin it will cut better, but it will also be more fragile. If you read Kephart, Nessmuck or Kochanski, they all recommend very simple thin blades. No supersteels needed!

[@benisboy2697]

Yes. The marketing has almost made a game out of this, getting some bit nature-detached cityfolks trying to minmax the imaginary stats of blades in exchange for their money. Never seen anyone that has even the slightest experience in knife usage turn down simple plastic handle puukko for quick cutting task. People who use knives here in finland sure can cut everything with standard shit-puukko. When it comes to plain function, collecting aside, nothing beats the cheap stainless mora.

[@brakeme1]

Its called capitalism. Its what we do in the USA...just buyer beware and don’t fall for marketing

[@silasthomson7852]

It's what happens when very few people actually know anything about the tools or anything else they're buying, if you did you would see straight through the marketing bs... Its the nature of the capitalism consumerism beast

[@redrustyhill2]

I find it amusing all these "outdoors" youtubers who have these huge knives with a 1/4" thick blade, hacking and batoning large chunks of wood. Pointless and useless.

[@dmitryk754]

Wisest words I have seen on YT today!!!!

[@NeonReaperMkVII]

Scandi can chip much easier as the Flat grind, but the whole blade is stronger. People often find the Scandi easier to sharpen but you remove a lot more material. The list goes on and on, like he said in the end it depends on what you wanna do with it and what feels best for you. Scandi is better for general wood work. but Flat is better for general "survival" tasks like making feather sticks, the Scandi wants to go deep into the wood so it's harder to control but I bet with a bit of training you can do feather sticks as good as the Flat. So don't listen to all those Bushcrafter Knife experts, try them out and see what you like best. There is no knife that is the best and can do it all.

[@EssexCountyPhoto]

I'm 46 and I never knew the difference... THANK YOU. Keep up the good work. 👍🏻

[@bigviper64]

Thank you, I didn’t know what type of blade that I have o n my knives..The Scandi is very attractive, but the Flat Grind turns out to be optimal for general purpose..

[@DeadHead7337]

One ofmy favorite knives is the Morakniv Kansbol. Half the blade from the tip back is a sort of flat grind and the rest back to the handle is a skandi. It's extremely versatile. The thin flat tip is great for food prep even also works great for skinning game. Then the skandi half is great for heavier cutting, like processing fire wood. Sure, it doesn't full tang, but it works great, especially for the price point, and has never let me down.

[@sdriza]

totally agree - got that knife for my son, but I liked it so much it found its way into my bag

[@frankmcmanus5142]

Beautiful knifes ! For years i carried a small kitchen knife with about a 4 inch carbon steel blade and it did what i needed just fine . I fell for the gotta have "a scandi ground blade" to be out in the woods so i bought a Mora several yrs ago . I currently have a companion hd, a forrest, and now a kansbol which is a great knife for me . I also have a couple of knives made by Buck . They do the job but so did that old kitchen knife . .like many ive watched many a video on youtube about various blade types etc and theres quite a bit of hype for scandi grinds . My theory on knifes and grinds is run what ya brung . If you have a knife get out and use it if you like it keep using it . If its not the latest greatest alphanumic steel so be it . Learn how to sharpen what you have . Practice your skills and just enjoy the woods

[@gregb.8280]

Holy smokes! You just explained knife blades way more simple then ive seen!!! Thank you and alao never noticed how much metel os actually temoved from a flat grind ! Thank you for explaining that !!

[@shanelyon414]

Excellent explanation of the differences, thank you very much!

[@BenOrford]

You’re welcome!

[@beetroot7486]

Flat ground knives offer less resistance when going through material but the cost of that is maneuverability when carving tight curves. You can however compensate for it by making your knife narrow, like 15,16 or 17 mm and you'll have one amazing all around knife that can beat a scandi grind. I made one a few years ago and haven't had the need to use any other grind.

[@MrVikingmead]

Thanks so much of simplifying the explanation!😊

[@OverlandTheSlowWay]

I like the small Scandi close to the blade and a Sabre grind for the rest of the blade...as you put on the pocket parang.

[@npenick66]

Looks like a high Sabre grind would be the best of both worlds.

[@quinntheeskimooutdoors6234]

Thanks for showing us. Take care.

[@OsoViejo7]

Nice evenhanded discussion of the pros / cons of both grinds. Because I don't spend a lot of time out in the wild I prefer the flat grind but I understand the advantage of the Scandi for those time that you are in the wild. Plus, I believe that as far as fixed blade knives go, the Scandinavians make knives that stand up to everyday use better than those from other areas of the world ( as in Japan ). Now if you are talking about swords then I would say Japan comes out on top. Never have seen a sword used in a bushcraft video.

[@HrWisch]

Scandi for wood, full flat, saber or convex grind for everything else. I use to have multiple knives with me.

[@lukeedwards8018]

Sabre grind is my choice. Perfect combination of the two, enough meat on the cheeks for heavy use but with the microbevel it becomes a nice allrounder. That being said nothing beats a solid scandi grind

[@markbunyan9092]

Another very informative vid Ben, thanks, can you do a bit of a demo on sharpening the full flat grind in the field and what you would recommend to sharpen with please?

[@BenOrford]

Hi Mark thanks a lot, sure great idea for the next video. We can certainly show you a few ways of keeping it too too in the field for sure. Thanks for asking. cheers Ben

[@sandhill9313]

Nice to see the perspective of someone with no ax (😄) to grind, as sellers I'd expect there would be no motive t be anything but honest when you offer both products, a great explanation!

[@markwareham2289]

That would be a tough decision - they both look so good!

[@BenOrford]

Thanks a lot much appreciated

[@antaress8128]

Just buy the two.

[@maritimespook]

Those are both some fine heirloom quality knives Ben !

[@markpywell1912]

convex sabre may give the ultimate all rounder, something to ponder at least Ben 👍

[@gregdavis9187]

Thanks mate...this video was very useful to me!

[@tillo1981]

So buy both! 🙂

[@greyscout01]

Excellent explanation. Thanks for the info.

[@11saje82]

After batoning a oak log, I got a succession of slight, near the edge, lateral blade deformations of a flat grind knife made in cpm-3v. The deformations are wave-like, the blade, being 5 mm at spine, is very thin behind the edge. The blade edge itself is perfect. I never had such effect with saber grinds.

[@beetroot7486]

Here's a tip: Don't baton with your knife...

[@shamitoson]

@@beetroot7486why not? With the proper grind/technique, it’s the way to go to process smaller pieces of wood. Also way safer than using an axe or hatchet at a fraction of the weight. There’s nothing wrong with batoning pieces wrist size or smaller. No need for an axe. Saw and a fixed blade. I’d never hike with an axe.

[@Airik1111bibles]

I actually prefer a full flat for wood work esp a high saber style grind with a slight convex to smooth out the shoulders. I do love a well made scandi , if you are working a long project your arm will thank you . Those are beautiful knives .

[@greekveteran2715]

A task that a scandi can't do easy at all, is peeling potatos, apples, carrots etc. That's where a Full flat grind not only can work but works the best. Scandi is only good at carving wood and on the fact, that the blade, won't get thicker eventually with sharpening and removing steel through years of use. Ιt will always be the same knife (if you know what you do when sharpening). A properly made full flat on the other hand, can work on wood and do many more tasks a scandi can't do (it also provides more edge stability, thus less chipping ot rolling on the edge if any at all) Saber flat, is a more robust version of the Full flat grind, where you sacrifice a bit of slicing, to get the most edge stability, some spliτting advantage and it's the only style of grind, I would use for light batoning. Hollow's slice good and have similar advantage to the scandi, when you remove steel, it won't get thicker and thicker as Full flat and saber flat gerinds eventually do through many years of use and sharpening sessions. However the Hollow grind, has another diasdvantage, which is the fact it makes half the blade way too thin, so it's meant only for light work. Full Flat and Full Convex (Opinels come with full convex, but not many people notice that), those are my favorite grinds, that can cover anything! Convex for hard use and general utility, Full flat for Food prep and general utility too!

[@MDM1992]

I completely disagree I've been using a scandi ground knife for more than a decade and have more than adequately peeled potatoes and other veg, sliced and processed game and meat with it including filleting fish, and have put it through abuse while carving, cross grain batoning etc, never had an issue with any tasks, could a full flat have done some of those jobs better? Yes but only slightly, and I've never needed to do more than use my leather belt to strop it back to shaving while out and about. If you genuinely think a 4mm or 3/16 scandi can't perform those tasks at all as you say then the problem is not the knife, it's your technique.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

I agree. I generally have no use for a scandi grind that's over 3/32 thick.

[@greekveteran2715]

@@glbwoodsbum2567 That's the perfect spot for a scandi. Thicker than that, and it can't slice anything, thiner than that and you start to have edge stability issues (edge chips or rolls easily)

[@BushcraftEurope]

I agree

[@greekveteran2715]

@@BushcraftEurope That means, you use your knives and you know how they work!! Have a nice day!

[@TheDaveDryden]

Scandis definitely are better at 2-3.5mil for wood. At 4mil+ scandis perform poorly though due to edge geometry and sabers/flats are better. My Favorite grind at 5mil is a sabervex. Both knives look beautiful ✌️

[@joonasrautio9909]

What do you mean by mil?

[@BassMaster.454]

​@@joonasrautio9909probably milimeters, whatever those are.

[@-Agis-]

​​​@marcusvirta3695Exactly. Take your preferred angle and stock thickness, then adjust blade- and grind height accordingly and you're golden.. Edit. FWIW..this is coming from people who had mandatory puukko-making in our curriculum in the early 90'..in elementary school 😅 🇫🇮

[@peterh.1521]

​@@joonasrautio99093,5 mm is approximately between 1/8-5/32 inch.

[@pizzaiq]

They're not better. They're completely different.

[@TheCoffeeBushKid]

Good and informative video Ben. You are right. You really just need both. Thanks for explaining the difference between the two grinds and there uses. Hope you are both well. Take care mate 🦘🦘😁👍

[@greekveteran2715]

Ben, the darker red liners, much the OD Green better!!! I hope someday I can afford at least one of your knives sir!! Keep it up!

[@BenOrford]

Thanks a lot for the in-depth comment and glad you like the knives. Many thanks and if you ever want one making let us know. All the best cheers Ben

[@teeeff5179]

excellent presentation! 👍 as you say, different tools for different jobs: scandi (full tang) for the tough jobs and carving; nice light folder flat grind for food prep (eg Opinel No. 8 stainless). works for me. not a hunter -- i go to the woods to see the animals not eat them -- so a large flat grind is pretty much lost on me. took me years to figure that out.

[@JinKee]

i used to use a folder for food prep until i loaned it to a friend and it came back with food in the liner lock. that was a sad day.

[@tgray505]

Why do you people insist on a full tang knife? Hidden tang knives and swords have been in use for thousands of years. If they are as weak as some of you imply,they wouldnt still be around and used daily in some cultures.Finland comes to mind. Anyone who hammers your most important survival tool through a chunk of wood to split it,is not a "bushcrafter".( I think that is a stupid word! I much prefer to be called a woodsman.)

[@teeeff5179]

@@tgray505 fair point, but battoning is a pretty effective way to split wood in the absence of a more robust tool for job. if that's something you want to do more than casually you're going to want something that can take a beating, hence full tang. battoning may not be your method of choice but if it was good enough for Mors Kochanski it's good enough for must of us.

[@tgray505]

@@teeeff5179 That may be so,but in over 50 yrs roaming the woods hunting,fishing,campin,gold prospecting etc,I have Never found myself in a situation where split wood was needed. I always manage to find all the different sizes of wood needed just on the forest floor. In fact,even though I always carry a small double bit cruiser axe on my trips through the woods, my friends and I seldom waste time cutting firewood to length. Anything we cant break into lengths,we burn it into. My friends and I were taught many skills by a bunch of real old time woodsmen relatives of ours,who grew up woods roaming for survival during the depression. These same men fought WW2,and came home to raise families by hunting and fishing. Again,not for fun,but to keep food on the table. In my family,some of them were Creek native americans. The things they taught me have saved my ass several times. I have visited all of them who are still alive in recent years,( most are in their 80s or 90s now),and I showed them videos of so called " bushcrafters",using a knife to baton wood. From every one there was outrage to absolute laughter at the stupidity of using an important tool such as a knife as an axe!. Personally,I witnessed a man using a very expensive name brand knife,to baton some wood. He got it stuck in a knot,and then broke the blade!

[@teeeff5179]

@@tgray505 i respect your experience and the wisdom you and your friends have gathered over the years. that said if you've never found the need to split wood to make a fire you've been a lucky man. i grew up in the Pacific Northwest (often helping my father on prospecting trips as it happens) and if you happened to be out in the rainy season (4-6 months of the year) you either brought dry wood -- almost never -- or split something to get to the dry stuff. to be fair back then we always had an axe to hand. i'm now in my 60s, spending time in the woods again and doing so mostly solo. the weight of an axe is a luxury i always think twice before adding to my pack. i'll certainly take it if i think i'll need it but i also know i can often do without. if someone trashes a knife while battoning then they weren't using the right tool for the job, IMHO. with a stout blade (full tang, 3.5mm stock or thicker) i don't hesitate to batton if the need presents itself. and no, i've never damaged a blade doing so. at the end of the day though you should do things your way and i'll do mine my way. i have no disparaging thoughts about yours. i respectfully suggest you might try a similar approach when you consider the methods of others. they're not all fools and you might even learn a thing or two. 👍✌🖖

[@lesdrinkwater490]

Nice video. Thanks Ben

[@andythebreadbaker9925]

I like a nice scandi or convex fixed blade. Around 4 to 8 inches long depending on what I think I'll do with it and whether or not I want to take my tomahawk. And then 1 or 2 smaller hollow grind folding blades (2 to 3.75 inches). Buck 110, Barlow, multitool knife, etc.

[@Macovic]

The kitchen/hunter knife has that flat grind which is quick to sharpen. Nice when skinning or for food prep or shaving feathers, but basically no other woodwork. The general purpose and efficient woodworker/ bushcrafter is that scandi. That scandi works for well for everything, including feathers and with good steel sharpen up while skinning is not as like to be needed. It is more important if the steel is very soft. But the scandi is not great for fine slicing of vegetables. However that is not very important. Split carrots boils pretty well. However, buying both makes a very nice combo!! And two knifes is always good.

[@griftopherhitchens9926]

Beautiful work.

[@BenOrford]

Thanks a lot 👍

[@AlexB-km7os]

My favorite knife has a convex grind. Best of both worlds. Strong enough and extremely good slicer.

[@nacholibre1962]

Not very good at processing wood, like the Skandi grind, but good for skinnig and gutting game.

[@AlexB-km7os]

@@nacholibre1962 Agree. From other side - convex can perform the basic survival woodwork tasks, if needed. Scandi has big advantage if you need to do a LOT of woodwork.

[@larryeddings3185]

Excellent information and two beautiful knives, sir. My 4 inch Woodlander is my most cherished bushcraft knife.

[@danizarnika7293]

Thank you Ben. Greetings from Jawa island, Indonesia.

[@davidleasure9138]

Beautiful knives Ben. Thanks for sharing

[@grayintheuk8021]

Absolutely stunning knives - wow!!

[@richardrudy2834]

Excellent video bud, I enjoyed it very much 👍

[@JonDough-412]

I need one of each Ben!!!! Thanks

[@BenOrford]

Thanks a lot , well we can certainly make you one of each if you want. Just let us know many thanks cheers Ben

[@JonDough-412]

@@BenOrford Will do cheers matey Hope all is well with you and the family Cheers

[@BenOrford]

@@JonDough-412 great stuff. All good here thanks hope your well too ? cheers Ben

[@JonDough-412]

@@BenOrford All is well here in the states cheers!

[@billk.5891]

Beautiful knives Ben. I wish I was younger so I could tramp the woods again. Thanks.

[@Haylion]

Thanks for the info!

[@RochdChati]

best way to describe a scandi grind is a knife that is close to a wedge like that of an axe, that's why they baton so well

[@Michalis_Karakostas]

Great knifes sir! In which angle do you sharpen flat grind knives? About 17 degrees perhaps? And which angle do you put the secondary bevel?

[@Crafty.Veteran.Survival]

Beautiful knives in any case

[@j.p.4541]

Hi Ben, thank you for the knife comparison. May I ask what spine thickness range do you recommend for a Scandi grind? Thank you.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Nicely presented and discussed. Thankyou.

[@bibigreen6533]

All my true scandi chip and roll doing very normal tasks. I love my terava puukko with the micro bevel. Hyper slicey, but strong too.

[@BenOrford]

Well if that’s the case I would check the heat treat as they shouldn’t chip with normally cutting tasks. What makes are chipping?

[@bibigreen6533]

@@BenOrford Very normal bushcraft tasks. Even my Mora Robust has chips. I don't even baton with them. They do cut into wood really well, but I don't trust the strength of the edge.

[@BenOrford]

@@bibigreen6533 well I think you might have to try one of ours. They don’t chip with normal use and stay super sharp. 👍

[@bibigreen6533]

@@BenOrford I gotta say they're beautiful knives!

[@ordici_]

4:05 in the up left corner, a little spider goes by :D

[@justaletdown]

Sharp eye!

[@1valg]

I actually think the best all-round grind is a sabre grind with a secondary bevel. I prefer my knives to be stainless, RWL 34, 14C28N, Böhler n695, S30v, cpm154 aso., as it´s best suitable for my environment and use.

[@virgilbarnett3770]

Fantastic looking knives! I want one, or both! 😁

[@StevanOutdoor]

I agree with the differences. For a one tool option I prefer a saber grind.

[@HouseBladeDesign]

Do a video on your loop on your sheaths....I build them love to see how another makers does it

[@peterh.1521]

I am Sweden. Do you know which grind is better for fishing? And I mean for everything around fishing, including cleaning fish.

[@vickottevaere8786]

Nice knives, witch backpack from osprey are you using here?

[@madvelila]

I have always used knives with scandi grind. I purchased couple flat grinded knives but did not like the feel as much.

[@matthewbishop9342]

Scandi grind all the way 💪!

[@loveall3890]

Or even better, convex.

[@matthewbishop9342]

@@loveall3890 naa, convex is a bastard to sharpen correctly when in the field.

[@randymctavish3728]

Different tool for different job..

[@loveall3890]

@@randymctavish3728 scandi for carving. But in a survival situation you’re not going to be sat in the middle of the woods while daylight is burning carving little shapes and patterns on a piece of wood. This is my own personal argument for when people say scandi, it is not directed to your reply.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

@@matthewbishop9342 I have found the convex to be very easy to sharpen in the field. Everyone's different though.

[@markjg2275]

The Scandinavian countries like the Scandi though the flat grind is the blade used by frontiersmen mountain men and all other countries through the centuries. Kephart , Nessmuk and other frontier knives are good examples of knives that are not Scandi. Your other options are convex and Saber grinds which are also very good . Any type of knife blade is better than not having any knife at all. It is just a personal choice there are no real winners or perfect knife if it cuts it will work.

[@gpietra]

Came here hoping to hear a discussion about the different edge retention of the two grinds, which seems to be one of the most important things to consider when choosing a grind, but it was not covered in the video.

[@Swearengen1980]

Scandi and sabreare modern fads for bushcraft. I'm pretty sure Kephart and Nessmuk knew what they were doing and they certainly didn't need a scandi grind to kick the wilderness' ass (I won't debate the semantics/differences of survival vs. bushcraft). If you're sitting on your butt whittling and tasks that are just glorified whittling, a scandi is great and fun to play with. But personally, I feel like bushcraft is more diverse than just cutting some notches, etc. and the scandi is a one trick pony.

[@o.k.corral]

Thanks for the video. I have a question. The scandi grind seems the most suitable for batonning, because the whole blade is stronger and because it spreads the wood better. Unfortunately the edge of the blade itself is more fragile than on the flat grind which has a slight final angle. So ? Isn't that contradictory? And what grind would you choose for batonning and why (taking into account the fragility of scandi edge)? Thank you for your reply.

[@JinKee]

i think that they are saying that the scandi grind gets blunt faster. they’re not saying your scandi is going to chip or anything, but it will become blunt with use. when batoning through a piece of wood to make kindling choose the scandi grind, and then be prepared to sharpen it again. so scandi for wood, and flat grind for meat.

[@o.k.corral]

@@JinKee Thank you, Jin, for your reply 🤗💚

[@ivancho5854]

Is there a reason why the scandi blade doesn't have a sharpening choil? I don't often see them on scandi grinds. Thanks.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

Many people don't put that on a scandi ground knife so the blade can be sharpened all the way to the handle scales.

[@topofhelist6592]

I have yet to see something like the kansbol but in full tang

[@John..18]

Much prefer a convex grind on a bushcraft knife, and obviously stainless,, 🔪😊

[@chrisguthrie0823]

I'd love to order one from y'all where can I do that

[@BenOrford]

No problem just let me know what version your after and we can make one for you. There should be a link to our website in the description but if you have trouble let me know. cheers Ben

[@depalebe]

How about a saber grind?

[@BenOrford]

Sure Sabre grinds are a good half way between the two. We have some sabre ground blades ready for handles at the moment 👍

[@D2G10]

Good luck with sharpening the Scandi grind blades... fk that bro. Gimme thick hollow grind with secondary bevel any day. and a small flat grind for everything else. I carry two or three blades to the camp anyway.

[@Βόρειο_Σέλας]

I guess if you are doing a lot of woodwork in bush then the scandi is more suitable because it is basically a chisel. General camp knife a flat ground is more appropriate, especially food prep, animal skinning etc. I have a handforged laminated knife with less aggressive scandi grind and it tapers off from spine, this configuration proved a good all rounder. It is 3mm thick but towards the front is around 2.5.

[@torpilo]

A Flat Grind can accommodate a thicker spine... But you can go even better for an all arounder - Convex.

[@garywheeley5108]

Hi Ben Would full flat work on a nomad ?

[@BenOrford]

Sure I have done a few nomads with flat grinds. Makes a great all round slicy pocket knife 👍

[@twocrowsblades3544]

No Sabre grinds ?

[@BenOrford]

We have done a few sabre grinds and often do what the customer prefers on their custom builds. I have some sabre ground blades ready for handles so if you want one let us know 👍

[@theanhng10]

thanks bro.

[@robertkirk4387]

I prefer the convex grind as most of my scandi grinds end up that way regardless

[@sequoyahrice6966]

IS this in the UK? I thought you all werent allowed to have knives over there

[@BenOrford]

Sure we are in the united kingdom We can certainly have knives and use them. But we can’t have these on our person in a public. We can carry a 3” non locking folder if you have a legitimate reason. Hope that helps

[@ShelleyRaskin]

Why not add a saber grind.

[@ReasonAboveEverything]

I take flat grind any day over scandi unless it's a very wide puukko grind. The average sandi grind is not wide enough to give me enough feedback to justify the disadvantages.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

Exactly!!!

[@dennisleighton2812]

Hi Ben. Interesting comparison. At the risk of appearing hyper-critical, I would really like some solid feedback about a number of issues, because I can't find this elsewhere. For starters, I still don't understand why you say the Scandi works wood better than the flat grind? To me it seems that it would be harder to push a thick wedge through wood than a thinner, flatter blade, especially if the two bevels are ground at exactly the same angle? I've viewed dozens of videos about this and I always get the same answer, "Scandi is better. Why? It just is!" And that ends the conversation. Another point: about in the field sharpening. In the video you mention that the flat grind with a narrow bevel as shown is very easy to sharpen/touch up in the field. Yet when saying why you like Scandi, you go to some length about how easy it is to sharpen? Maybe in a workshop under ideal conditions, but in the field? How can that be an advantage? Apart from making ultra-fine feathersticks, what else, what other tasks, would a Scandi grind do better than a flat/convex grind knife? Or even a sabre grind knife for that matter, and why so? This was prompted recently by the launch by Victorinox of their new Venture range of purely bushcraft knives (they are adamant they are NOT survival knives). These knives are flat ground knives, with a secondary bevel, just like the one in the video, and roughly the same size, but a very different blade shape (drop point, almost spear point). They use Sandvic 14C 28N steel at 59 Rockwell hardness, which by all accounts is pretty good. Why will this knife not perform as well as a Scandi Mora of the same size? At which tasks? I really look forward to your answers. Cheers!

[@Cayled174]

Hi, I just stumbled across this vid while looking for info on flat vs scandi grind regarding sharpening ease in the field without sharpeners. I don't know if Ben is reading this, but here's my attempt to explain this. To answer your 1st question, Think of the scandi grind, not as a beefy blade to push into the wood, but as a chisel (essentially it the same profile as a chisel, just positioned differently). The blade sides taper down to the apex, without having secondary bevel. A flat grind might have a secondary bevel with a wider angle (40°) than your typical scandi grind (25-30° for the "true", zero grind scandi), On a flat grind, the secondary bevel is pretty high. This makes little "shoulders" that prevent the blade from forming good shavings as you push the blade into the wood. It works ok for really thin shavings (thinner than the secondary bevel height) but has less "bite" than scandi for bigger cuts. The secondary bevel makes the apex more resistant, but those little "shoulders" that are "in she way" when you cut the wood piece, create more localized constraint, hence more friction and resistance than a flat surface (of a scandi grind). At small scale, that requires more deformation to remove the same the material , hence require more force. The shape of edge also makes it difficult to keep a consistent shave thickness, making it not ideal for woodworking. In fact, most Scandi knives come out of the manufacturer with a microbevel (smaller than the secondary bevel of a flat grind), increasing the total angle at the apex to 40°. This makes it tougher and easier to resharpen (since you only have the microbevel to touch up, not the whole thickness of the blade). But the smaller the microbevel you have (or the closer to a zero scandi you are) the better it will be for woodworking. It's a balance between efficiency and maintainability/edge retention. I think Ben says Scandi are easy to maintain because you don't have to think about the sharpening angle, it's built-in. But I get your confusion, I wouldn't choose to bring a Scandi blade if I didn't have a sharpening kit with a small diamond stone with me, something a buschrafter would probably carry with him anyway because being lightweight is not his main concert. On the contrary, for casual use in the woods or even survival, I feel more comfortable having a flat grind blade in my kit, that I can sharpen with a lansky blademedic, a small rod, or even an improvised tool in worst case scenario,(rock I found, pottery,...) way more versatile for me. IMO, it's a question of whether you want to have woodworking and are willing to carry a sharpening kit or not. Think of touring vs alpine skis. Touring are really worth it if you can carry the sealkin and use it when possible to climb. Otherwise, when going down, they roughly do the same job as usual skis. PS: I have an analogy to the inserts for CNC or turning machines in mind. Although metal is a very different material, there is a reason why inserts have a single bevel profile and are shaped like a small chisel/spoon. You want the cutting edge to be the thinnest (even if the inclusive angle is not very acute), and no "shoulder" rubbing against the piece you're cutting. The profile is shaped like a chisel and ends up as a scoop to orient the removed material in the good direction & produce a good shaving. This way, the cutting movement makes a continuous curly shaving, it requires less force, and leaves a smoother surface (and generate less heat in the process). Regards,

[@sherwinpalacio3227]

Depends on what are you going to use it for.

[@P.Subaeruginosa]

The title says bushcraft.

[@MultiThunder1234]

Full flat or better known as the Convex grind is weak at the tip and when it comes to feathering it will take a lot of trial and error to get it right. Personally I would prefer a Scandy as it's a more reliable design with a strong tip.

[@HardyBunster]

I always thought a flat grind was a meat slicer and a scandi was an all rounder. 🧐🇬🇧

[@stanlong-rangepensionerman3363]

Great idea love ya work 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺

[@VsemBobra-w3o]

What's the point of having a blade 3-4mm thick with flat grind? It's too thick for food prep and too weak/fragile for woodwork, batoning etc.

[@jhtsurvival]

Ok so I liked scandi grind but I recently was trying to use my Mora Garberg to take off some girth of my AXE and I didn't like how it handled. Made me rethink scandi... check out some of my videos

[@bwxbwx6453]

Flat grind for me

[@230mps]

Soo frustrating that soo many knife makers insist on putting red or orange strips in the handle. It ruins the visual aesthetic. If I buy a knife with a beautiful denim micarta handle, that last thing I want is ugly orange stripes on it.

[@BenOrford]

Well it’s a very personal thing for sure. I like the red as a real homage to Bob Loveless but we can make them without liners but lots of people like to make them a little more personal adding colours that have a significant meaning or connection. But if you want a knife with no liners we can do that for you no problem Many thanks cheers Ben

[@lorenray9479]

You sully youngins! A mora companion hangin on the right side, and a flat grind hangin on the left. A woody annoyance gets a good whack. A vegi, meat task gets the flat! Simple solution from 60+years out side in the brush.

[@nacholibre1962]

That is actually a full falt with a secondary bevel.

[@Tom_Bee_]

If the point of the flat grind is to make the knife overall more "slicey" why stick with such a fat spine/stock material?

[@ivancho5854]

That's a great question which most people don't think about. Actually, I'm not sure that you are even allowed to ask it. But since you have watch out, I'm definitely wearing my cynical hat in this response! I think that the reason is more fashion and marketing than anything else. Marketing costs can exceed manufacturing costs of a product. Most people equate weight with quality subconsciously. Think of how much outdoorsmen spend to buy lighter products, yet they justify a heavier knife because it won't break and ensure their survival ("survival" - really?). As the total cost of the steel is is a low percentage of the overall cost then expensively priced knives use thick blades, whereas a higher cost is incurred by using a steel which can be thinner, to offer equivalent durability. More thought must also be given to designing a thinner blade. I suspect that knife designs of a hundred years ago probably had superior performance due to the limitations and cost of the steel, but also didn't last as long. Similarly knife manufacturers must love those who rave about carbon steel blades. Carbon steel is cheaper to buy and process. If a stainless steel blade corrodes then the knife is perceived as low quality despite the conditions, whereas this is perversely seen as a sign of quality of a high carbon steel knife! "But a carbon steel blade holds an edge better", bleets the consumer. "Of course it does", confirms the seller. If it doesn't then it's implied that the fault lies with the sharpener, whereupon the buyer shuts up rather than being viewed as an amateur at sharpening. This is an extremely clever marketing psychology. Of course consumers will argue that I am wrong rather than admit that they have been manipulated and manufacturers will declare that they don't do any marketing as they have an "honest" product which "sells itself". I'm obviously a fool. Sigh. So, a thick blade can cost less to make, probably have fewer returns due to fragility and the manufacturer can charge more because of the premium feel. It's always about the money! Alternatively: the knife is thick to make it more able to survive as your life may depend on it. Being able to cut well is of secondary importance. All the best Tom.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

The flat spine is used to shave tinders and strike a ferocerium rod.

[@Tom_Bee_]

@@glbwoodsbum2567 fat not flat lol I know what a ninety degree ground sound is for

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

@@Tom_Bee_ Man I gotta work on my reading comprehension. Lol But, what is this "ninety degree ground sound" you speak of?

[@Tregrense]

Scandi or Flat grind? Yes. Both. Why choose?

[@warwickshireoutdoors]

Very nice. 🏕👍🍻

[@maguraboy]

I don't like scandy grinds anymore.A knife is suposed to do only two things-cut and slice.Scandy doesn't slice -it chops.

[@richardhenry1969]

Seems like you left out how scandi is easy to damage. The full flat grind has a much stronger edge.

[@BenOrford]

Well I am not sure I actually agree with that. As the scandi has a a whole lot more steel behind the edge. Granted if you Nick the edge you do have more steel to remove but would say the flat grind is a thinner and more delicate edge than the scandi. But it’s all personal preference and for what task at the end of the day. Thanks for the comment cheers Ben

[@richardhenry1969]

@@BenOrford a scandi knife might be stronger but the scandi edge is weaker. A better edge is convex or what a lot of woodworkers do scandivex.

[@whitetailscout4069]

I cannot understand the fascination people have with Scandi grind knives. Seems like people buy them because because they watch videos of bushcrafty people smashing them through seasoned chunks of firewood and get all excited about it, even though 99% of them will never need to do that. The VAST majority of knife use for people is going to be all the things a full flat grind excels at, cutting and slicing.

[@kelleyhogan7063]

A knife can be a razor or a chisel, or anything in between. Buy the knife that best suits what you do most of the time knowing it will get by at the rest. Or carry more than one knife. People like the Dutch bushcraft boys when they choose their best one and only survival knife every year or so choose knives more like 6mm thick cleavers. Yet true survival experts like Mors Kochanski or Cody Lundin would show you a small pukko style knife if you asked to see their “survival knife”. Cody Lundin has used the same old wood handled mora for twenty years, and says people laugh at it. But they can laugh on as as he says that knife built his business. At the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice. As Mors Kochanski says the more you know the less you need. Knives of some form or another have been around since the start of time and its what you do with it what counts.

[@joekelly9369]

flat any day , food is my bag , no time for whittling

[@intothewild3349]

Full flat all day every day , if I need something thicker I'll use an axe

[@brianlash154]

Can we stop scandi grinding every bushcraft knife out there please? Scandinavian grinds were available in a rather small part of the world back in the day of boats, walking and horses, and those without Scandinavian grinds got along well enough in the woods I personally find this particular grind is great at wood working, but is mediocre at best in every other category

[@georgeroiz8786]

Best to carry multiple knives,one for food prep and one for bushcraft