Bernard Williams & Michael Sandel on Justice (2000)

[@henryvaughan757]

Best philosophy channel

[@superfuzzymomma]

Well timed post. Thank you

[@newtonswig]

40:05 just a lovely little moment of Socratic refutation in the wild! Makes me think how often most of what people say is too woolly to refute.

[@ajw9533]

To hear Bernard (Williams) pronounced in the same way as Bernard (Edwards of Chic) is excellent.

[@The1Helleri]

All the definitions for justice given here were proposed and knocked down in dialogue between Socrates and Thrasymachus, in Plato's The Republic. However, there is one definition that was suggested there never gets resolved in that conversation is "Justice is the advantage of the stronger." I've yet to see a succeeding assailment on that definition.

[@christophergiofreda564]

I think it's adequately answered in the "Gorgias." See the section with Polus concerning the tyrant and the fable of souls at the end of the dialogue. If justice really is the virtue of the stronger, then it would seem that Socrates would not quibble with Gorgias over his unwillingness to teach students justice, right? Just a thought.

[@The1Helleri]

@@christophergiofreda564 Just now ordered that one off abebooks.

[@tylerhulsey982]

“The fundamental question is: What is reality? Did it happen? Did it exist?” 🤯

[@xxcrysad3000xx]

Well, did it or didn't it? What are the facts of the matter? Fairly straightforward. More abstract is asking well, can I trust the evidence of my own senses? Of my own mind? What is justice? Is IT real? Is it "out there" in the world just waiting to be discovered? Or does it somehow depend upon us, emerge out of us, either individually or collectively? That really IS the fundamental question.

[@Doctor.T.46]

Following on from Rawls was his student Thomas Pogge, who talked about Global Justice.

[@manuelmanuel9248]

Morality and justice are social constructs which are subjective. Some opinions about morality even vary in the same society. Matters like the death penalty are a matter of opinion. Perhaps there is almost universal agreement that the the perverted crimes of psychopaths are immoral.

[@RagnarB175]

Read Plato's Republic and get back to us.

[@nanashi7779]

It's impossible for all moral truths to be subjective

[@manuelmanuel9248]

@@nanashi7779 tell me one that is not

[@RagnarB175]

@@manuelmanuel9248 Sex crimes against children are unjust. Convince me otherwise.

[@manuelmanuel9248]

@@RagnarB175 define children. The date of consent has varied thru time and geographically. In some countries girls of less than 12 are married off to grown men with social approval. Again, this supports the social construct theory.

[@noshirm6285]

One of the callers - at about 36:05 - is seriously deluded. 🙄