Best Beginner Shmup to Learn, Touhou 8 Imperishable Night! | Touhou Quest

Best Beginner Shmup to Learn, Touhou 8 Imperishable Night! | Touhou Quest. Getting better at shmups (shoot em' ups) is a challenging and sometimes frustrating process. One reason for that is that older shmups tend to challenge your memorization of that specific game more than the fundamentals of dodging. Touhou on the other hand, especially Touhou 8, is a fantastic series to help you learn the genre because the design and challenge of the game is all about testing your fundimental dodging skills. Skills that you can practice and then apply to all shmups, not just bullet hell danmaku or CAVE games. What makes Touhou 8 specifically good at this is its really strong mix of fundimental dodging patterns, as well as a few puzzle ish patterns that secretly teach you fundimental concepts of reading and dodging complex patterns. On top of that IN has a very steady and helpful difficulty curve and difficulty options that start at complete beginner and end at super player, not many shmups have this variety of well made challenge. Then you add in the wide accessibility, the large variety of quality of life features (especially if you download from the shrine), the rock solid replay system, and the large wealth of information about the game, and you have a winning recipe. I know a lot of old school players tend to shy away from touhou because of the visual style and character design, but putting that aside it's almost always the case that the strongest players we see actively playing today often have their roots in the Touhou series and scene, and that's because of how the games are designed and played. The cherry on top of all this goodness though is the spell card practice mode. I never realized how good this mode is until I grinded it for this hard mode 1cc that I show in the video. The spell card mode is just as fun as playing the full runs and its very fast and dense in terms of gameplay. It also doesn't have load times or have the soundtrack restart, so it feels less janky than pure save state practice. It's like save state practice but properly built into the game. Sadly touhou remains on the pc only, but someday I would love to see the main touhou games, especially imperishable night, ported to ps4, ps5, nintendo switch, and xbox.
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#touhou, #shmup, #shootemup,

[@yogsothoth915]

This is actually the first of the only 2 Touhou games where it's encouraged to call your shot types "Ships"

[@annaairahala9462]

I've never heard anyone call the shot types "ships" for 8, but this still made me laugh

[@yogsothoth915]

@Anna Aira Hála me neither, but I'm trying to start a movement. This pun is too good to be left on the runway

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha that's great XD

[@poisonouslead85]

Badump-tish

[@ssjcrafter8842]

is the 2nd one Subterranean Animism?

[@poisonouslead85]

Touhou's focus on bosses makes sense, the bosses are part of the greater cast and world building for the series. Most of the playable characters (6 of the 8) in Touhou 8 are bosses from previous games. This trend continues through the whole series.

[@auellaitaela8035]

Hope you resurrect this Touhou Quest series sometime. I just started getting into them doing a "1cc normal then move on" journey starting at Touhou 1 and am now on Touhou 6 and it's been a blast. My personal fav series of shmups and would *love* to see more of the series on the channel.

[@inakilbss]

some things i'd like to point out: - moriya shrine has installer and patched downloads, it's best to always use the installer and patch the game yourself, specially in th8, since pre patched installs might be running thcrap on top of the old english patch, which messes with save files a bit - mystia's final spell isn't a good example of unfocusing to shoot familiars, since full focus works just fine there keine's 1st spell is the best one for that, since it's very dense if you don't unfocus - iirc spell practice is unlocked when you beat finalA, and continues are very limited when you're not getting many time orbs, so you have to either learn the time system or rely on stage practice till you get the first creditfeed clear - you were doing the right thing on marisa 2nd spell, you just went a little too fast - even if the stages are simplistic, the extends are based on point items and it takes quite some routing to autocollect enough to get them all - the bonus spells in stage 6 aren't a reward for 1cc per se, but since you can't continue in stage 6b you can treat them as such - you're the only person i've ever heard pronouncing the "th" in touhou tools instead of spelling it out (it stands for touhou lol)

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yeah definitely the shrine versions of the game are fantastic since the downloads have all these great patches to help the game run well on modern machines. Also yes my performance in this run and review is not expert perfect level, but I did get the 1cc so that's all the series format calls for ha. But yes my gameplay can always be improved ha.

[@xaverrab]

hey so quick question about downloading on moriya shrine, the games that i download are a torrent file and i could use the torrent software to untorrent it but i've heard that its a virus, i've tried extracting them but it just dosent work so do you maybe have a download for touhou 8 that isnt a torrent file?

[@inakilbss]

@@xaverrab what part of it all is supposedly a virus

[@xaverrab]

@@inakilbss people said that it was malware/virus on reddit so i dont exactly know (they only said malware/virus)

[@-butterfly-594]

​@@xaverrab For whatever reason I know that Touhou downloads tend to get flagged as "malware" by external anti-virus blockers, but they actually aren't. I've downloaded almost all of my Touhou games from Moriya Shrine: all of them got flagged as viruses, but none of them have actually caused any issues, and checking after installing them didn't find any viruses. If you want to get the games legitimately, all the games from Touhou 9-19 are on Steam. They cost around $15-20 I believe? and I think it's worth it to support the dev.

[@boghogSTG]

The gimmick/puzzle/trick element of patterns is itself really helpful for newer players IMO. Because it shifts their focus away from the fundamentals and more towards really clear concrete problems they *know* can be solved - not to mention it gets them to approach patterns more analytically instead of relying on all those muddy fundamental skills. Non Touhou shmups need to take advantage of that a lot more - fundies based gameplay is an acquired taste, so you need to lure them in with more concrete, easy to understand problems to solve. And shmups are in a good position because you can have both gimmicks and fundies, you can have a core clear puzzle for new players to solve, and once that's solved hard/lunatic-style modes can layer extra stuff on top of it so that even if you know the obvious solution, you still gotta dodge a lot.

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

Do you think its a good idea to scrap fundies just for puzzle pattern?

[@boghogSTG]

@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Nah that'd be horrible, it wouldn't even be a shmup anymore it'd just be a puzzle game that looks like a shmup

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@boghogSTG ohh crap.. i suddenly remember a game that looks like a shmup but a very terrible game experience.

[@boghogSTG]

@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Word

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

@@boghogSTG *cough . Knight Witch

[@Jetsun007]

Total newbie here, just made my very first Easy 1CC on IN, few points that might help fellow noobs: - Universal Practice tool (thprac) allows you to practice right from the start any stage pattern, mid-boss and boss spell cards and non-spells. - Typing 'R' from the pause screen instantly brings you back to where you started: beginning of stage 1 in runs, entry point in practice. Quite handy! - If needed one can unlock everything with a code, quote from Touhou Wiki: "To unlock all unlockable content at once, navigate to the Score Ranking menu and hold either Shift or Ctrl, then press Right five times, Left one time, D two times and Q three times. If done correctly, the 1up sound effect will play and the practice mode stages, spell cards (including Last Word spell cards) as well as the Extra Stage will be unlocked for all shottypes, including the solo characters." Thank you for this channel and your spot on guidance in this intimidating world of Shmups! PS: THRotator makes Touhou looks amazing, full use of my portrait screen!!

[@Askanon]

Touhou 8 IN will always be one of my favorite games in the series. I can't really explain it but it's just such a solid entry. It's also one of the two Touhou games that I've managed an Extra stage clear on so there's that. But between spell practice and all the different shot types it's an excellent game to get into the series with.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes exactly! I don't think I understood how awesome spell practice is until working on the hard mode clear for this game, it is a fun mode unto itself and really useful for practicing for the clear.

[@hooksnfangs6006]

GAWDDAMN!! You nailed ALL the reasons why I absolutely LOOOOVE the bullet patterns in Imperishable Night and explained it in depth! Bravo, Mark! BRAVO! 👏👏

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thank you very much my dude, I'm glad you enjoyed my pattern by pattern analysis, I think I'll try to do more of it in the future

[@deus_nsf]

Something you didn't mention and may sound trivial, but is actually so important especially for beginners, is the soundtrack, how is it designed to not only sound good but flow with the stages and boss action so well (not just for spell practice even though that's a part of it!). When you start playing shmups, it can be a very frustrating and discouraging experience (it wasn't for me thankfully but still), and I think having this god tier OST just goes a long way into making you want to retry again and again and again. Something that I (weirdly enough) found in DonPaChi too (not DoDon), especially the main theme. For example DoDonPaChi and Ketsui have very nice soundtracks (especially that PS4 arrange), but they don't really "connect" with what's happening on the screen if that makes sense, at least not as much as Imperishable Night does. It's a shame other Touhou games are not as well designed in that aspect (even if some are very close).

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh yes the ost on IN is one of the best in the series, it def adds a lot to the hook of the game for new players :-)

[@nightelf5007]

This game holds a special place in my heart -- It was the first touhou game I saw on youtube about 15 years ago, and not only was it the first touhou I 1CC'd (only on normal though), but it was the first and so far only touhou where I've beaten the extra stage. This is making me wanna try practicing IN again. Maybe I can actually 1CC it on hard one of these days.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes I def recommend coming back and going for the hard mode 1cc, it was a nice refreshing experience honestly, I had a ton of fun playing it.

[@Dyeguy117]

Hey man, just found your channel a few days ago. I’m new to shmups (played very little when I was a kid) I decided a few weeks ago I wanted to get into shmups, they are really fun. I own Lightening Force on my Sega Genesis. I absolutely love that shmup, so fun. Anyway, I just got Touhou 8 IN and WOW! I am having sooooo much fun playing this game. I’ve never played a bullet hell before. This game is exhilarating. The music is amazing too which is a huge boost to making the game fun and fast paced feeling. I busted out my Qanba and have it setup on my PC and I’m just enjoying the hell out of it. Thanks so much for all of your commentary and information on the genre. I’ve chewed through several of your videos; I love it 🤘🏼

[@TehAwesomer]

The way the bullet patterns sync with the music in this game is excellent...

[@warchild9381]

I just discovered your channel a week ago and I am HOOKED. Very few people I can withstand watching just sitting and talking for even 10-15 minutes, but you are very entertaining and informative. I found out a lot about shooters and other topics like the remake culture video are great. I will definitely check out this game as I suck at bullet hell shooters.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh I love to hear this warchild!! Thank you so much for the kind comment, I'm glad you are connecting with my vids! That is absolutely what I am aiming for :-)

[@Arandui]

A few other points to emntion: Touhou 8 also the mainline game with the most content (2 different endings with different final bosses, Extra Stage, up to 10 different shot types, Last Word mode) and it also has the most complex gameplay/scoring system in the series. In contrast Touhou 10 is probably the simplest one beside Touhou 2. Also I wouldn't recommand downloading the games from Moriya Shrine, because they mostly contain outdated patches or fucked-up config files or missing files. If you can't import the cds or don't want to wait for a pontential Steam release, on Nyaa is a much cleaner all-in-one torrent.

[@bornagainstraightedge]

Thank you so much for this. The Moriya shrine torrents seem to be dead, while the Nyaa touhou complete collection is very well seeded. I found it with a quick google search.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ahh yeah this games seems to have a ton of patterns and modes, which is fantastic. I really meaty release. I'll have to check out the nyaa versions for the next game and compare the two :-)

[@HouraisanKaguya]

The Time Orb scoring system is truly excellent, it's one of my favorite things about the game. The risk/reward of letting enemies live to spawn their familiars, so that you can destroy them to get more Time Orbs, and switching the gauge between Human and Youkai mode to maximize Time Orb collection, it makes the stages in this game far more engaging than any other Touhou game. (Oh, and I shouldn't forget the fact that you're directly rewarded for collecting Time Orbs with the ability to face each boss's Last Spell, as well as more continues/more attempts at Kaguya's 5 Last Spells, rather than it purely being a scoring mechanic.)

[@toribirb]

still waiting for this series to come back. I love hearing your perspectives on touhou since its the first bullet hell series I got into!

[@okuu_utsuho]

Touhou 8 is also really good for beginners because easy is really easy. Unlike other Touhou games like LoLK (Touhou 15) where Easy is just normal, Normal is Hard, Hard is Lunatic, and Lunatic is Lunatic x2, Touhou 8’s difficulty is what it is. Deathbombing is also really easy but with a cost of 2 bombs. IN is my Favorite Touhou Game of All Time (some of my online friends might’ve also noticed that most of my favorite Touhou characters and songs came from Touhou 8). I never struggled to play Touhou 8 unlike other games like Touhou 7 or Touhou 12. Even though the game is easy, it is enjoyable as it has a lot of contents like 2 final bosses, a lot of playable characters, and Last Words. I have 1cc’d it on Easy and it is my goal to 1cc it on Normal or at least clear the game on a harder difficulty. I am also practicing Eirin’s last spell on Normal and I am having a hard time clearing it unlike on Easy.

[@Dukstless]

In all fairness, PCB is infamous for wack difficulty balancing (I think ZUN just straight up said somewhere that he didn't have time to properly balance Prismriver Sisters, which I can believe with how some upgraded spell versions are actually easier). This is to the point that Easy is barely a step down from Normal (which leads into the funny place where PCB has one of the easiest Normal difficulties, but also one of the hardest Easy difficulties)

[@poisonouslead85]

Deathbombing teaches you to see your death coming. The window is too small for you to react off the death alone, you have to react a few frames before your death.

[@marcar9marcar972]

28:18 you could go through 9 but it’s a spinoff that’s closer to a fighting game than a traditional shump. Though maybe that makes you want to play it more.

[@audrecords9]

Lovely video as always! I always come to you and Jaimers for shmup related content, but I don't know anyone who goes into much detail as you do. Also, do you remember the name of the outro song? I know it's Divine Bloodlines but I've never heard that version.

[@Talguy21]

I'm an extremely casual shmup player, and I've barely branched outside of Touhou Easy Mode. I've played them all, and 1cc'd all of them except 1 and 2, so I think I know a lot about the low-skill player experience in games like this, even if I'm pathetic in the grand scheme. You obviously have the knowledgebase to actually coherently describe the thoughts I've had about this game for years. I always recommended this game to my friends who wanted to give the franchise or the genre a shot, because it is a really great teaching environment. It's got one of the most lenient Easy and Normal modes in the series, an early version of Spell Practice, like you said, and a relatively straightforward pattern progression. I wouldn't have been able to dive much deeper into what each thing teaches like you did, but I ended up nodding my head along as you talked. xD I wonder if you'd think Reimu was as well-designed of a Stage 4 boss as Marisa is. You fight her if you play as either Marisa's team or as Sakuya's team. I like Marisa's fight a lot more, personally. Great video.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I'm glad this video has helped articulate your thoughts on the game, that is definitely one of my goals when I make these type of vids ha! The Reimu fight sounds interesting, also it's crazy how this game actually changes bosses and stuff based on the character you choose, ZUN went all in on this one ha.

[@Talguy21]

@@TheElectricUnderground He changes boss based on player occasionally. 6 has Patchouli use different spell cards 7 has you start the fight against a different Prismriver. 8 decides Reimu or Marisa. 9 has a lot of different routes. 11 has Satori use different spells she copies from your partner. 14 has you fight a different Tsukumo sister, and 16 has a different final spell. This is specifically talking about spell cards and boss fights ofc. And I might have missed something. =)

[@Chr15_]

IN is my favourite touhou game so i’m glad you finally got to it in touhou quest! it’s always really fun to hear different perspectives on the games than what you usually hear (no touhou player would complement yuyuko’s last non or say mystia’s final is a good example of familliar killing for example lol). this was said before but i would love if you also tried the extra stages too! they’re about as hard as hard mode stage 4 and have lots of fun gimmick and memo patterns. I’m excited for the touhou 9 episode, it’s very different from the other games and it’s very fun. it’s probably my second favourite. also, since you liked the spell practice so much, i would REALLY recommend touhou 9.5 shoot the bullet. it’s basically just a giant spell practice but instead of shooting down the bosses normally you have to take pictures of them! it’s an extremely fun and creative game and it would be really great if you covered it on touhou quest!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes I think it's always good to get an outside perspective on this type of stuff. I really like touhou and the touhou players I interact with are really cool, but i'm sure like every other fandom it starts to have its own dogmas that people tend to follow along with ha.

[@perlichtman1562]

When you mentioned audio cues in regards to confirms, the first thing I thought of was Space Moth Lunar Edition. Lots of shmups require switching back and forth between focused and unfocused like you mentioned but Space Moth is the one that comes to mind for me when it comes to relying on the audio cues the most.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

oh that's a cool example! Yes I remember using a lot of audio cues in that games, especially on the final boss patterns :-)

[@petewatson8074]

I wish they made a decent vertical Touhou game on Switch.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I know! honestly I am shocked this stuff has not been ported to the switch in some type of homebrew manner.

[@bulb9970]

I absolutely love Imperishable Night, I’m only halfway through the series but it’s my favorite so far alongside Perfect Cherry Blossom. Everything about the gameplay, music, characters and absurd amount of content with spell practice, alternate last stages… is perfect to me. PCB was my first normal 1cc, but IN was my first hard 1cc and I can play those two games countless times.

[@Takane_Yamashiro]

"2 videos"? Now im really curious. He's arrived at a 3-way fork. Review a Photo game, Review the multi-player game, or just jump to MoF. I confess I'm curious what he'd think of Shoot The Bullet. What even is Shoot The Bullet? He's resisted the phrase puzzle elements in all his reviews, but he might genuinely need to use it for some of those Spellcards. lol

[@gon9684]

This was actually my first Touhou and my first shmup game, absolutely loved it, had a lot of fun... So yeah, I agree with you, it's just great. And yes, the difficulty settings are very useful, because it feels very progressive and natural, start by 1cc on easy, then play normal and enjoy, and then maybe Hard and Lunatic, but by that point you'll probably be good enough to explore a few other games. If you don't play these kind of games I do reccommend playing easy, but don't over do it, just play it like 2 or 3 times.

[@AyeYoYoYooo]

I have not found anyone yet, who has been equally able to accurately describe the many dynamics of the truly great shmups

[@jefrysax]

This was the second Touhou game I ever played, the first was StellaVanity , but when I get tired of bullet hell I turn to Terra Force ... this is an old shmup and is the exact opposite of bullet hell, first there are rarely more than 10 bullets on the screen at one time, second it is both vertical and horizontal shmup and the enemies can come from different places, usually they come from one place, but if you position yourself where they usually come to the come from somewhere else, to survive you have to move a lot, but to kill the whole group of enemies efficiently it is the best to stay at one place. It would be nice to see you try this one and share your opinion. Terra Force. And the music is great..

[@PedroFerreira-sx2gd]

Not a fan of touhou but i admit that has a special place in my hearth along cho ren ka, and kamui.played in era were we could not find shmups in a pc outside emulation (wich itself was not good as present). I was in university and internet was slow and had to wait for hours to do download a pirate copy.there was no steam so i did not had a option. zun is one of the more important people in shmups wheter you like it or not. Part of the sucess is the cuteness he put on his projects.bullets wuth ton of colors and shapes. Everything is very geometric and less chaotic than other bullet hells. Another thing good for begginers is the bar in the Norton that says the location of the bosses. A newbie does not need to looks to the boss.I don t have adrenaline rush with his games. You spoke about bosses. For me there are not bosses in touhou games just bullet patterns considering that apart from bullets the only thing that changes is the visual aspect of them. Even the size is the same. i think one of negatives of touhou is the duration of boss battles. When i get to the middle of the fight i judt get bothered. Would love to see a video about bosses in shmups special comparing the classic ones with bullet hell. I think is a area where bullet hells don t do so well as classic shmups. Also would love to see a review/analysys of " shoot the bullet" , not because i like but because has unique mechanics/ideas and i don t consider easy like other toihou games.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh yes ZUN is a legend and definitely goes in the shmup hall of fame. I think arcade players have a bit of chip on their shoulder due to touhou's massive popularity outside of its actual gameplay, but the series itself is extremely solid and has been a massive funnel for players who would never play shmups otherwise.

[@MG6344]

IMO Touhou's bullet patterns are unpatalleled, I can't think of any shmups with more intricate and spectacular looking patterns.

[@uboa8060]

I think it has to do with the theming, since the patterns are meant to represent the characters more than anything else

[@hewdyer332]

Keep doing what you do as long as it works for you!

[@akairibbon4658]

Can confirm, got the easy 1cc with Reimu/Yukari 2nd try

[@bushieboiyay6531]

I think this is also the Touhou game with the smallest hitboxes, like you can get away with going throu bullets very often, like mushi style stuff

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh yes the hitbox felt fantastic. I didn't realize it is smaller than the other games, no wonder I like it so much lol

[@system11yt]

This is a very strong pick, I loved it.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Absolutely!!! There is something special about IN, even among other good touhou games :-)

[@BamdTheBamd]

well i have three concerns about someone beginning with 2hu. will they: 1. route 2. score 3. play other shmups unlike most shmups where you route the stages and the boss dies in 2 seconds, 2hu stages are relatively easy (and boring) and its bosses are the hard part. so while you'll learn impromptu dodging, you won't really be encouraged to route. obviously there are static spell cards but i don't think routing a pattern is quite the same as routing a stage 2hu scoring also blows in my opinion since most of them have graze which results in heavy milking, so it's way more popular for survival. because of this i never scored any shmup and just did survival challenges instead until i discovered dangun feveron 2hu players seem too stubborn to play any other shmup for possibly two reasons: 1. they don't know alternatives. your average gamer at best knows gradius, raiden, r-type, ikaruga, maybe some cave games they randomly saw once on youtube 2. they think lnn is the peak of skill (despite requiring luck) and that arcade games are unfair for not letting you nmnb completely ignoring the existence of psikyo funny thing is i'm pretty sure 2hu was only designed with no miss in mind and not nmnb. society would be so much better if they just played psikyo instead also i used to think this game's deathbombs would worsen a player's bomb sense but nowadays i'd say the opposite cause they cost 2 bombs so you're still encouraged to bomb before getting hit

[@IllusionistsBane]

I used to play the Touhou shmups years ago. Now I've got other games that aren't shmups to play and kept enjoying the world of Touhou with the massive fan culture. I guess one of the unique things about Touhou is that its world works in any genre - including JRPGs! Before I played Touhou I played Strikers 1945 II (a Psikyo game!) on the PS1 when I was 7 and Mushihimesama on the PS2 when I was in high school. I didn't remember anything from the former and the only thing I remember from the latter is purple vomit. So no, I didn't care for the alternatives and I still don't. Do you think people who just play shmups without going for scores aren't real shmup players?

[@BamdTheBamd]

@@IllusionistsBane i don't think there's really anything that dictates a "real shmup player" besides just enjoying the genre

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes I think touhou is not going to be the complete experience for learning the genre, but I think the problem with having new players go right into playing CAVE for example (as much as I love cave) is that it is information overload essentially. Where players need to learn the entire genre all at once. What I love about touhou is that it pieces out a lot of the skills and concepts of the genre into a much easier to digest format, it is also much more obvious than something like cave, so it helps the player figure out a lot of core skills but in a less overwhelming way. Also it is incredibly common to hear that a lot of newer bullet hell players started with touhou, and then jumped into cave. I think I am personally one of the few examples of players starting in cave and then discovering touhou ha.

[@huevonesunltd]

A lot of touhou fans that i know swear that their games are "the most difficult videogames ever", they will see that title and they will lose their minds lol

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Lol touhou is challenging, but def not the most challenging. You should show them aero chimera, that game is pure evil (in a good way)

[@poisonouslead85]

@@TheElectricUnderground We'll see how you feel when you get to Touhou 15.

[@MaknaEXMachina]

Touhou 8 is really cool. I actually got a Lunatic No-Bomb run in it a few years ago (well, kinda. bombed in the few seconds before results show up after killing TLB, so kinda doesn't count but w/e)-- but it was actually one of the harder ones of the few I got. Touhou 6 LNB is a nightmare you have to overcome, and 7 is given to you pretty easily after training in 6, but 8... 8 throws you for a loop. The new mechanics added such as the familiars that only Human characters can break is something you have to consciously think about throughout the whole run. There's this one pattern on Stg3 boss Keine called Ephemerality 137, where you have to dodge bullets coming from the left and right. Thing is, on Lunatic and with no bombs, you essentially NEED to break the bottom familiar (or bottom two) on each fired wave to survive. I was trying to overcome the pattern by sheer dodging as Yukari and it ended up being a gigantic roadblock until I decided to step back and re-evaluate the core mechanics. Then you have to fight Marisa, and her fight involved a lot of routing. There's one particular non-spell, I think her second, where I planned so much that I consciously called a certain cluster of red-green bullets the "watermelon wave" just to be ready for it. Crazy stuff. The rest of the game is difficult but manageable, with the last hurdle being the TLB, Kaguya. You really have to get into spell practice and practice everything she's got, and then you're faced with Branch of Hourai, her final "real" spell. Nome287 on YT has a fantastic strategy called the Yellow Bullet strat on dealing with it, and I definitely used it (or, tried to use it) in my run. I do have a challenge for you though, Mark! If you're willing, there's this absolute nightmare pattern in Touhou 15, the final actually. It's called Pristine Danmaku Hell, see if you can capture it. It's 100% pure shmup basics and no trickery, but the difficulty of it (waves 3/4 and 4/4 in particular) is completely insane. I have like, at least 500 attempts, at least, and not one capture. I'm a little disappointed in myself for it, but I think you might be able to manage it, you're better at piecing apart pattern fundamentals while I just kinda try to actively learn it. Hell, you could make an entire video on it if you wanted to, it's pretty iconic. Give the pattern a shot at least, it's diabolical.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Oh yeah that lunatic clear sounds insane!! So I am not graduated to lunatic clears of touhou yet, someday i plan to do them though, so at this stage my reviews basically cover from normal - hard mode and how the patterns function at these difficulties. Lunatic review are sort of their own beast by the sound of it :-)

[@MaknaEXMachina]

@@TheElectricUnderground All good! I'm certain you can do it in time. I love stopping by your channel, you really opened my eyes to more shmups outside the Touhou scene--of course I'm still looking forward to those upcoming videos too!!

[@annaairahala9462]

Reimu and Yukari (the two you're playing with) have a longer deathbomb period than the other characters, also 8 is the only Touhou game to make it so long and have the double cost for using it. Other Touhou games do the standard short timeframe so it's too quick to reflexively bomb after getting hit, but still a short window after being hit where you can bomb. 8 does have a reputation for being good for beginners and for good reason. Its Easy mode is particularly easy as well, which may sound really bad, but for the number of people I've seen interested in the series but struggle with even the most basic dodging it provides something they can actually manage to learn the basics. Honestly, it might be valid to also say it's the most polished Touhou game too

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Yes exactly! I think the way the deathbomb works in this version of touhou is especially good for training new players how to do the skill. Because in stuff like cave where there is no give on bombing after getting hit, players will go a long time not being able to react in a useful way and getting the instinct to hit the bomb button. But in the case of IN, it's just long enough to get new players into bombing on reaction, even if it seems really lenient to experience players :-)

[@Snowstriken]

I'd say it's definitely the best one to start with. Fun. Honeslty still challenging. And also I jsut like playing it tbh

[@Nusoipoopie]

Glad you still remember about your task, albeit I already forgot about it. However, it pronounces as Zoom, achually.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes touhou quest still continues!! Just when you think it's gone it re appears ha

[@AcceleratingUniverse]

good to see touhou quest come back

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes just when you count it out, touhou quest returns ha.

[@marcossegon5433]

I definitely agree with this being a great and potentially the best bullet hell shmup to start with, but there is another game that I think is pretty good to start with if not better. Old Touhou games have the issue that due to being so old, you cannot legally obtain them in a reasonable manner. They also suffer from many issues that need to be fixed by external patches, specially Touhou 6. That one is a nightmare. On top of that, they aren't translated to any other language so you need to patch them whether you like them or not. CAVE's games suffer from similar issues since only like 2 of them are released on modern platforms so you have to emulate most. It also doesn't help that they are definitely not very beginner friendly, specially most of the arcade versions. So my proposal for a starter bullet hell shmup is instead Bullet Hell Monday. First of all, there is at least a free game from this series in both PC and mobile. So we start strong since you don't need to pay nor emulate or patch anything. Just download it and enjoy. The game is basically built to be a bit of an introductory game to the genre while pushing away a bit the stuff that might be a turn off for newbies, such as the arcade format (it has a sort of arcade mode, it's just not the main dish of the game) and replacing it with a sort of missions system similar to what the Touhou photo spin offs are, which I'm sure is a lot easier to digest by newbies. The missions are beaten not just by surviving but by completing different objectives such as getting a certain score, killing a certain amount of enemies with an specific resource, no bombing/missing, doing bullet cancels... The missions' objectives essentially encourage the player to interact with every mechanic the game has to offer, effectively teaching you the basics of the genre. If anything, I would say the only thing missing is a grazing system that teaches streaming bullets. Other than that, it touches pretty much everything. Oh, and you cannot progress in the game unless you complete enough of these objetives, so you WILL have to learn all these systems. The game's bullet patterns are also definitely very CAVE-like, going as far as to implement the slowdown from CAVE for the very dense patterns. The soundtrack is also honest to god really damn good. And as I said, it also features an arcade mode in the form of the endless stages found in the extra section of the game. They basically grab all the levels in the game and mash them in a way that creates this endless stage that keeps getting harder and harder, and where the only goal is to survive for as long as possible and score as highly as possible. So you also have a mode that is more similar to that of typical shmups. The only downside I would say it has is that you can level up the ship, and while it is way more manageable in the PC version, the mobile version is definitely a bit stingier with the upgrade points for monetization reasons. But I don't think it is enough of a problem to bring down the rest of the good aspects. I genuinely think Bullet Hell Monday, both the original and Finale are worth checking out and considering as introductory games to the genre. I would like to see a video where you talk about this game series.

[@Alexs23743]

Beginner... **PICHUN!** ...friendly, you... **PICHUN!** ...say? I... **PICHUN!** ...might give it a... **PICHUN!** ...try if it ever... **PICHUN!** ...releases on Steam, then. **PICHUN!**

[@Dukstless]

13:31 - Not gonna lie, Marisa's final on H/L kinda drives me nuts, for the wrong reason. Shoot the Moon feels like a downgrade from Earthlight Ray (ymmv whether it's Shoot the Moon being too simple for Lunatic or Earthlight Ray being too complex for Normal).

[@Ugetora]

Nice vid, by any chance are the drawings made by the artist "E O (illustrator)"? It looks so close

[@ssjcrafter8842]

funnily enough, I found this while doing a similar thing. (though in my case, it's also all the extras and with all shot types...) kinda wish it was possible to get earlier Touhou games legally though... currently only 9 and 9.5 are on Steam(and obviously the later games) I don't really have experience with other shmups, but to me, the stages still feel like a somewhat integral part in Touhou. I'm having a difficult time imagining Touhou as an actual boss rush...(I usually dislike fan games and such with no power mechanic and you're always at 100%). I also feel a bit similarly about early stages, because you build your resources for the later game.

[@gnnr222]

finally!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Touhou 8 has arrived!

[@JogosMofados]

"... and this is what sets apart god like Shmup players from us mortals ..." - damn, if you're a mortal, I'm still trying to get my head around on what that makes me 😂. Awesome video, didn't know about the rotator, do you have a link to share?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha maybe at this point i'm half mortal like Hercules XD yes, here is the throtator link: github.com/massanoori/THRotator

[@JogosMofados]

@@TheElectricUnderground awesome, thanks!

[@JogosMofados]

@@TheElectricUnderground now we need this for Graze Counter GM.

[@truxardus4331]

This game got me into the genre. I'd played Raiden a few times when I was a kid, but that was about it as it was pretty much dead in the mainstream by then. I really like the music and vibe of the game. It is also one of the easier ones, I'd say only 4 is easier. Though I wouldn't say it was easy, getting the (normal)1cc was hard for me. I'm not that good at this type of game. Speaking of which, what is your opinion of 4 and 5? I've tried to play 5 quite a few times, but the really bad color design (white bullets on a baby blue field) makes my eyes glaze over and I die.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yeah that early touhou games at this point are not catching my eye, so I'll probably save my reviews of them until the end of touhou quest ha. I really like the windows era so far though!

[@davidlewis6728]

what's your opinion on lolk?

[@loliH9]

I can see it because I started playing with Imperishable Night and kind of slipped away from playing after UFO. I'm getting back into the games with Mountain of Faith but I'm starting to think that I should go back to Imperishable Night. The lessons are there but not too fresh. Funnily enough, everything Marisa does in this game trains you to beat Nitori, and I remember practicing her spells a lot back in the day because she was my favorite.

[@haiperbus]

>slipped away after ufo understandable, it's the weakest in the main series. also known as "Unrefined Frustration Object"

[@naejimba]

You have a link to that "rotator" thing you were talking about?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I do, here you go! github.com/massanoori/THRotator

[@naejimba]

@@TheElectricUnderground , ty my dude!

[@lrnt9432]

Hi, thank you for this video, you made me download Touhou 8 and train to be better at shmups. I enjoy it a lot, especially the slow pace of the patterns. Would you know any other good shmups with slow bullets to recommend? Thank you again

[@MrsSurrealista]

Please do a video on touhou 11!!!

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

ok

[@FrankBorst]

Can you add the link of the software that can rotate the screen? Unfortunately I can't find anything so far. Thank you for all the hard work and great videos!

[@CPU.LINROT]

where do you go to pirate shmups other than touhou?

[@Dankicorn]

im usimg moriya shrine to install i have win rar but im unsure how to convert it from a torrent file. can anyone help plz?

[@Kira-ji2ft]

You need a torrent client and a VPN. The torrent file is just instructions for your torrent client to grab the actual files from people who are seeding it. The VPN is so your internet service provider doesn't know you're torrenting. Hope I could be of help.

[@JuanRoosterbeard]

Niiinuniniiiii load, niiinuniniiii load , niiiinuniniiii load.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha, that is my life. I was just doing that last night practicing ketsui

[@markguyton2868]

Yeah, never played 2hu, but am *very* aware of some of the tricks it plays on you in later games... have you ever played with your controls reversed?

[@IllusionistsBane]

14, right? That's Seija's ability, flipping things including your screen. Shimmy (Shinmyoumaru)'s is making the bullets or YOU bigger. In Genso Wanderer Seija would flip your HP from full to 1, for example.

[@markguyton2868]

@@IllusionistsBane Yeah, the seija fight is weird.

[@IllusionistsBane]

@@markguyton2868 But it fits her lorewise.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

ha that's really funny. I know that donkey kong country 3 has a level like that, so I did get pretty good at playing with my controller upside down as a kid lol

[@markguyton2868]

@@IllusionistsBane Exactly

[@luir9338]

Whats the software to make tohou vertically? Cant find it anywhere :(

[@TheElectricUnderground]

here it is my friend! github.com/massanoori/THRotator

[@gwynbleidd8863]

How do you set hud like that? I don't know how to configure it in rotator!

[@genericyoutubeusername6462]

What does stage 2 even mean

[@BSG1991]

Hey mark can you review Returnal for ps5/PC

[@TheElectricUnderground]

That s definitely possible!

[@cancer4cure483]

You know, it's too bad that shmup genre is borderline dead, otherwise this channel could be a great collection of game design wisdom. Because one of the biggest problem of indie game devs, is that they quite often try to reinvent the wheel, and end up making bunch of rookie mistakes. Like if I would try to make a shmup, for example, first of all I would study, how other people were doing this stuff before me.

[@IllusionistsBane]

The other extreme is devs going "Let's be like Cave/Treasure/Toaplan/Raizing/M2/Irem," being too afraid to innovate. I see this in the many things said about newer shmups. "Oh, Crimson Clover is Cave reimagined" or something like that.

[@mishikomishiko9088]

Borderline dead? Are you kidding? 😅 We have shmup renaissance at the moment. 😆 There haven't been as many new shmups, shmup remakes, shmup rereleases in decades as we have in a few recent years. 🚀👍 And we have awesome shmup enthusiasts and bloggers like Mark, Shmup Junkie and many others and that's absolutely new! 😁

[@IllusionistsBane]

@@mishikomishiko9088 The main question is: are they played only by the same hardcore shmup fans, or are there new people playing them, and do you think these new people matter if they just play it and not aim for a high score?

[@cancer4cure483]

@@IllusionistsBane I 100% agree with you. But I have to say - innovation is always a good thing, as long as you can nail the basics.

[@huevonesunltd]

the genre definitely much more alive lately compared to a while ago. We have yet to see the era that might come eventually, the era where there will be a bunch of popular ones that will be very "modernized" and commercial that i think even electric underground would hate, and then from these there will be a bunch based on these popular shmups and that pretty much creating another subgenre in Shmups where every veteran will be like "back in my day, shmups were awesome not like the crap that we get today". We are still in the era where it's still niche and devs are still trying things or figuring stuff out to make them appeal more for the general public.

[@launch391]

id say gigawing but touhou is a good one too

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Gigawing is a really cool game, but it just doesn't have as many accessibility options at touhou 8 and it is a bit harder to find a good port of (the capcom stadium port is crazy laggy).

[@scienceandmatter8739]

I can't fi d this game damned?! +! Tribvtes from Germany Europe. Where to get this game and why is not one touhou on steam?!?!

[@scienceandmatter8739]

Lol. OK ok I go to the shrine. Right. Now. Thanks.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

yes seek it on the shrine ;-)

[@neontetra1000]

Are you making this video from Jail? Lol .

[@TheElectricUnderground]

No I just upped the contrast on the video a little too much, I'll lower the contrast next vid so the lighting isn't so harsh.

[@BGDMusic]

GOING BONKERS OMG I LOVE THIS GAME and it's actually my first! :) and also my only hard 1cc

[@nemoguy]

To whom?

[@TheElectricUnderground]

To the world. :-)

[@wcxd]

Well maybe choosing a game easily and legally obtainable would be a good start.

[@realce666]

Stick to Jets and Guns.

[@annaairahala9462]

Easily obtainable yes, but legally I guess not... It is next up to be put on steam if ZUN does intend to put 7 and 8 on steam though

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ehhh welcome to shmups ha. A lot of the good stuff exists in a legal gray area and very few games have good ports across all platforms. Also touhou is so prolific that most people watching this vid already have access to the game and know how to get it ha. I mean you can actually get IN by ordering the CD so it's not that impossible to get or anything, but touhou is really cool because ZUN is really open minded about the licensing of the series and never seems to bent out of shape about copyright and so forth.

[@gustavolobo4314]

I have a prejudment of Tohou because of the lollis and always avoid for harder shmups (I don't fell any progression on these games) But when my friends forces me to run Tohou for fun we got surprise how far I can go when I'm not taking the game seriously. Tohou is clever because it teaches you to wait and chill

[@haiperbus]

they're supposed to be adults but mr Zun sucks at drawing and doesn't really plan to get better haha.