Betamax Hi-fi Stereo Mastering | Before DAT we used this or VHS Hi-fi

[@ScottsSynthStuff]

The MPX filter was used for recording FM stereo broadcasts, which used a 19 KHz pilot tone to indicate the stereo subcarrier was present at 38 KHz (first harmonic of the pilot tone). The MPX (multiplex - used for multiplexing stereo channels into a single carrier) filter is just a 19 KHz notch filter. If you are not recording an FM stereo broadcast, the MPX filter should not be used. Also...the MPX filter filters the INCOMING audio, not the outgoing audio, so it has no function during playback.

[@Z4NL]

In the mid 80s we used a Betamax vcr with a Sony PCM unit for digital mastering. CD quality!

[@angelusuxorem3771]

@@Z4NL I still have one of those! Interestingly, you could choose either 14-bit or 16-bit recording (I think the 14-bit had more error correction), but both would record with pre-emphasis, where the high frequencies were boosted on record and attenuated on playback. When used with a VHS recorder with "HQ", the HQ circuitry could confuse the digital decoder, because it would repeat the previous line of video if there was a dropout (rather than just showing the dropout), which confused the error correction circuitry in the PCM adapter, leading to audible glitches. I haven't used mine in years, but I do have some tapes I recorded on it back in 1993 and 1994 that would be good to back up at some point, if I can get a VHS machine that will play them OK. I switched to DAT in late 1994.

[@teknokont]

The real Espen Kraft is back 😃

[@AndersEngerJensen]

1:22 "-You can't smell a picture.. " -I can! ;)

[@lmoore3rd]

Yes, like electric lettuce.

[@maxandchloemeditation]

Wow this brings back memories! I used to use the Toshiba Betamax. It was the only Betamax that does 4 channels of 44.1. (2 inputs are optical). Replaced it with a Sony dat later on. Love ur channel!

[@EspenKraft]

Cheers!

[@GiorgioBertuccelli]

I had that same exact beta max. This was my mastering deck throughout the mid 80s up until I found a gray market DAT recorder great stuff.

[@MaggieKeizai]

Before he got a CD player, my dad scratched his audiophile itch by recording things to Hi-fi VHS. I later mixed down 4 track recordings to VHS. People thought I was crazy, just because it hadn't occurred to them to do so. Now that I've gone full circle back to that kind of workflow, I got another Hifi VHS recorder to go with my (now new and improved!) 8 tracks of cassette recording. It's fun!

[@steffenbrix]

I have about 10 good quality hifi VHS machines....3 of them are SVHS. I cleaned, oiled and did a belt change on 3 of them. Still trying to find time to fix the rest. Also I bought a PCM unit this summer that will record and play on the video track of any VHS via the composite cable. I guess it's kinda the same as what your VHS here can do 😊😊

[@EspenKraft]

Hi-Fi audio on the VHS deck here is recorded by using the RCA L/R inputs. Composite is video only.

[@johnpappas6497]

Thanks for posting. I remember as a kid getting our VHS HiFi machine and renting Amadeus. Played through a stereo system it sounded far superior to non Hifi. Alas, I never recorded my own music on it. Used cassette for that. But I have fond memories of VHS HiFi sound 🥰

[@strangehermitage2299]

I was an 80s TDK tape kid but eventually discovered the warm saturated sound of 70s pop and disco was so much more rewarding sonically. Each to their own. Keep on.

[@strangehermitage2299]

Still can't beat analogue tape.

[@steffenbrix]

Awesome music Esben!! And I love tape tech ❤

[@EspenKraft]

Cheers!

Yes! I can smell the opening of this tape!

[@neilbradley]

Ah yes! I recall the Mitsubishi HiFi VHS as well! It did sound OK, but in retrospect it had a lot of compression, but we weren't concerned about loudness wars until years later.

[@EspenKraft]

Yes, it was a consumer deck like the Akai in this video and as such it's not suited for audio mastering as the Beta deck here.

[@Infamous-s6d]

My first recordings where on VHS when I was learning, but somewhere out there and I don't remember the brand but there was a mixer in the late 80s early 90s there was a 24 track mixer that recorded each tracks to VHS individually so each track had there own VHS tapes insert, I always thought it's was a good idea because digitally there was no hi-fi, the only bad thing about tape if you wanted to re-record you would have to record white noise over the tape to drown out the previous noise on the tape, but all in well it was joy to me 👌

[@Northern_Unicorn]

I used the Revox B77 reel tape for mastering for almost everything, until the digital era with DAT started. The Revox was a real workhorse, It just never failed.

[@EgoShredder]

That Sony looks and sounds fantastic. It's a keeper!

[@maxperez1604]

I had that Sony betamax HiFi video. Impressive sound for that time.

[@nickbirkby2521]

The Beta sounded very good! It is hard to find a VHS Hifi machine that has adjustable level sliders like the Beta machine, most of them have AGC auto gain control which isnt great.. I found a National VHS hifi machine with manual levels and I recorded some LPs- it was pretty much impossible to hear the difference between the source and the recording when A/B ing, -it was very impressive!

[@The7dioses]

Both systems give the song a very nice tape saturation, specially in the snare.

[@EspenKraft]

There is no tape saturation going on here, but the way audio is FM encoded has its own sound as I say in the video. ;-)

[@The7dioses]

@EspenKraft I thought I was listening to tape compression, which in return translates to tape saturation, that fizzling sound on the higher notes noticeable on higher notes and instruments with a fast attack wave, like snare drums, along with a "cohesive rounding effect" on the sound being fed to the tape.

[@EspenKraft]

Although all Hi-Fi VCRs have a couple of static analog audio heads for compatibility with cheaper decks, the Hi-Fi tracks are recorded analog with FM technology so the sound's color aren't determined by recording "hot" as on a conventional analog tape deck. FM audio has its own sound and it does have a coloring that might be taken for conventional analog saturation I guess.

[@The7dioses]

@@EspenKraft Yes,it does seem to sound quite similar to mixdown to conventional 1/2 inch tape, whether the engineers that developed this technology had set their intentions that way, I have no clue, however it does meet the criteria in terms of what was accepted as pretty high quality recording at that time, and it certainly sounds great today as well.

[@strangehermitage2299]

Subtle distortion, maybe. Certainly not saturation.

[@paradoxstate5018]

when you were opening it I was just thinking, I remember the smell of opening a new tape, then you said it !!!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂 Theres a chap on KZbin who bounces tracks using VHS, well he did I don't know if he still does, and to be honest until I saw him doing it, it never occurred to me, I had a DAT in the late 80's, but I also had a minidisc as a standby as well.

[@nicmcv6925]

Beta sounds incredible

[@DaveZula]

The Betamax quality really surprised me. Also I really like your song. ✌️

[@YoutuberRivaLima]

I used to play with some guys and we would record the backing tracks on a hi-fi video cassette recorder to play live... the audio quality was impeccable

[@LoveinScarcity]

I’ve done this as well. Also used to bounce tracks between two machines to build up songs back in the early 90’s. Worked but no undo haha.

[@manifestresults]

@@LoveinScarcity I used to do this too, but *with* undo - the tapes were so long you could do each dub further down the tape. Easy to go back a step or two if you needed to!!

[@tonttu303]

Djs on the fin-swe ferriess used svhs as a mixtape player during daytime.

[@PorchBass]

My cousin had a Nicam stereo vhs and bounced his portastudio to it. Sounded good to me

[@Megalocade]

Vhs hifi was pretty decent, I still have a Panasonic hifi VHS within my 80s / 90s Sony separates hifi equipment, it's a great little machine from 1990 has separate L & R record level sliders, and audio only switch, Mpx filter, index marking for selecting tracks and large VU meters, 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks.I have a bunch of 240h tapes that have 8 hours of music on in lp that I listen to regularly, considering I recorded these back in the 90s they still sound absolutely fine, also my old and rare vinyl records have gone down to VHS hifi too.

[@goranvuletic8873]

30 years ago, when my hearing was young and very precise, I couldn't hear ANY difference between the original and the recording on a VHS hi-fi. I also had a Sony DAT, and even though it was an excellent device, I could hear a subtle difference.

[@intothedeep2683]

Back in the late 80s, my brother and I had two Sony Betamax decks and we would bounce between them. Record to the first one with drum machine, a sequenced synth and a manually played synth all mixed together, then play it back while manually performing another synth layer. So, in one bounce I’d have (mixed) a drum machine and three synth parts. And the quality it top notch.

[@danm3570]

dude, relating to the beta tape i watched the first star wars movie on a beta video at my dads house. It kind of also became really cool because beta became extinct mostly, and it was a unique memory for a kid from the time

[@strangehermitage2299]

Because digital tape and early A/D converters sounded so much better than analogue tape in the 80s. One format was at its peak; the other in its infancy.

[@EspenKraft]

This isn't digital audio at all. Nor is it conventional analog audio. It's FM encoded audio.

[@strangehermitage2299]

You're correct. I retract. Forgive my ignorance.

[@strangehermitage2299]

You're Espen Kraft and I'm likely younger than you. 49 - I should know better.

[@PorchBass]

Slap tastic! ❤ Love the lower fidelity of vhs too, very nostalgic

[@Pepijn_a.k.a._Akikaze]

I understand why you love video tape as a sound carrier. I recorded the musical soundtrack to my Indonsesia holiday video onto hifi stereo VHS tape in 1995 and it sounded superb. Before that I coudn't afford a hifi stereo VHS VCR so I mastered my first two albums onto cassette tape. By 1991, I had switched to DAT, borrowed from my label manager. Who still uses DAT nowadays?

[@oscarvanderburgh9915]

The betamax sounds the best of the 3. It softens the instruments while keeping the drums punchy. Even punchier than the master. The VHS rounds off everything by filtering highs and limiting it seems… wow. Nice

[@McTroyd]

I vaguely recall that auto-tracking VCRs used the video signal to determine the tracking. It may be necessary to hook something up to the video input (signal generator, C64, whatever creates composite video) just so it has something to lock onto while the audio records, so the tracking doesn't duck the audio again. That said, this is the first time I've ever seen a Betamax machine used -- the battle had been won by VHS by the time I came around. Incredible machine! 👍

[@atmobeat]

Same with me: I also bought a DAT Recorder in 1992. My Yamaha DTR-2 was categorised as "semi-professional", mainly because of the 19" mounting angles. Oh and indeed, this vintage gear smelt absolutely lovely on unboxing when brandnew 🙂

[@garyhoffman1]

Ha! Du og jeg er sikkert like gammel. Er Amerikaner som bor i Nordland og har VHS hifi, DAT, og mange av det samme synther som du har. You make me feel old! 😅

[@EspenKraft]

Vi ER gamle. ;-)

[@jairkerker2821]

​@@EspenKraft I prefer it over death, hogging a family chair for a month.

[@Cream2773]

Sometimes just looking around for a Beta Hifi Recorder... THIS Sony is my favourite since I've seen Lukhash with code veronica. It's not only the charme and analog quality but also a real connection to my past. As in my childhood, we have had a Universum Beta Color VTR 10300 mono and for me, writing and arranging songs is also a process connected with real experiences and memories

[@jamiea6723]

Sounds amazing, love the compression. The S Video was too pumped sounding. BetaMax blows it away.

[@Mikey_Dee]

To be fair to VHS though, the pumped sound here is mainly because it's a basic consumer deck with ALC and limiting. There were much better decks for VHS HiFI audio work, but they are expensive to buy now. Panasonic had quite a few superb machines. Even so, I think that the Akai still held up quite well considering what it is and what it was up against!!

[@VickersDoorter]

Back in the mid-1980s our theatre sound comapny (Paul Farrah Sound - Kingston-upon-Thames) had a Sony PCM-F1 and Betamax recording rig. I used to do location recording for audio effects and to record theatre rehearsals in London. It was a superb combination - so easy and portable compared to the Revox B77 etc. On one occasion I was late to a theatre recording (due to a road crash) with the notable playwright, Harold Pinter, bollocked me in front of the entire show cast and told me to eff-off!

[@Nord72]

Still have an Akai VS-G855 for retro purpose, I remember when at the 2000s dvb-s system come out with the Technisat cards I ve been made recordings on vhs tapes and audio and video was brilliant quality ( mpeg2 video, mp2 audio )

[@jips123]

I had very good results to master to minidisc. Even if it is a bit lossy. Even people today say it sounds good, that is, warm and together. I also used VHS Hifi, that is audio only, that sounded great also.

[@oscarvanderburgh9915]

I also love this track.. that fm bass 🫠

[@normalizedaudio2481]

This sounded very good. Beta was very, very good. I did Beta and it was good. You would be surprised about it.

[@govorit_i_pokazivaet]

Sony sounds 80s, Akai does 90s. Conclusion: each part of the song deserve different fx, within common mastering.

[@JohnHallberg-v4o]

The Master is back

[@jairkerker2821]

Hi Mr. Kraft, this system sounds amazingly good. About the intro sequence; was that all done in the box or did you use a Panscan for the panning effect? Sounds a bit like when the source is panning left, its delay moves to the right?

[@EspenKraft]

The intro panning effect is done with a Eventide H3000 plugin in the DAW. I could have used the Panscan though. Faster to do in the DAW though.

[@j8577798yt]

What a great video !!! Where the h~ll did you manage to get your hands on a fully functioning video like that ???? Amazing !!!

[@EspenKraft]

I know a lot of people. Cheers :)

[@skilgannon1971]

I always thought my Betamax (Nokia machine) was always higher quality than my friend's VHS machines. That aside it took a lot of back and forth listening to hear much of a difference between the two but the most stand out thing for me was the drop in Base frequencies / volume when the track moved to VHS. Other than that my old ears couldn't pick up much else.

[@dominikkarkowski]

awesome song again.....

[@EspenKraft]

Cheers!

[@tobiverseofficial]

Nice! Why did it sound cooler with the mpx filter on? More lo-fi? Cool demo! Great piece of music

[@EspenKraft]

Cheers!

[@se7vennld]

Before DAT we used betamax and a Sony PCM

[@JohnHallberg-v4o]

Espen Kraft thank you

[@kropjesla01]

I don't think I can hear any difference in the back-to back comparison. the VHS might be a bit muddier in the lows, but maybe i'm just imagining that?

[@80ssynthfan48]

I get the sense that Sony would have traded all their hipness for Betamax being more successful for a longer period.....

[@EspenKraft]

When they persisted in keeping their Beta-tech to themselves they reaped the outcome. ;-)

[@PaulEubanks]

Even though the VHS and Betamax roll off the very top end to some degree, is there also a saturation happening at the upper mid frequencies just before the roll-off? It sounds almost like a low pass filter, but with a slight resonance bump in the upper mid frequencies on the tapes. Is this psychoacoustic, or is this real and measurable?

[@EspenKraft]

FM audio has its own sound as I mention in the video and I happen to love that particular sound. ;-)

[@cubdukat]

Did Beta Hi-Fi have the same head chatter issues that VHS Hi-Fi? I would put all of my old cassette mixtapes on VHS Hi-Fi as backup, but I stopped doing it because of the head chatter problems. ("Head Chatter," or switching noise, can be heard as a low-level distortion. It's hard to describe, but once you hear it, you'll know what it is...)

[@EspenKraft]

Beta Hi-Fi and VHS Hi-Fi audio are recorded very differently actually and not comparable technically at all.

[@ScottsSynthStuff]

@@EspenKraft but both systems used the rotary heads for laying down the audio carriers, and both systems did in fact actually suffer from head switching noise as a result if they weren't working perfectly. That's what he was asking.

[@KidMrRemixes]

Cool t-shirt. Just got my new Retro Spectrum. Is it available in Norway? Off topic I know, but I just wondered.

[@EspenKraft]

Thanks! It is. I know a couple of guys who bought it.

[@klinkske]

Dad had a 6 head hifi JVC VCR he binned. It had a lot of knobs and functions, wish i asked for it before it was lost. I had a jog dial, multiple speeds etc. Does DAT have any more purpose today, @Espen ?

[@EspenKraft]

You should have kept that. Many people still use DAT. I have lots of DAT tapes and I should get me another DAT deck and look through them and see what I can find. Besides that I have no desire to use them again.

[@morespaces9061]

Bought my Betamax Sony in 1983 after visiting england in 82/83. Could not understand back then why vhs succeeded it shure wasn't the soundquality!!

[@michaels8597]

I STILL have my SVHS set up..LOVED IT... I love the amount of crybaby whiny babies that make crybaby content when they do not agree,like with the synth SCAM video..Hilarious.

[@FaebopLive]

The Betamax medium was definitely the least pleasing to my ears. It's sounded like there was a distinct amount audio information missing, making it souind weak. The digital master should and obviously was the cleanest but the VHS master was definitely the most audibly pleasing to listen to. It gelled the parts better, smoothed off the high end better than the digital and betamax.

[@Abruzzo333]

Beta is always higher quality than VHS if the everything is working correctly....as this video clearly demonstrates. There are noticeable dropouts on the VHS.