BFM #14 - Defensive Spiral

[@EdadTace]

"Fly safe, and check your six." ... and the ground ;)

[@RequiemsACTL]

Oh yeah...man I should have signed off with that on this lesson haha I should hire you! :-)

[@Creep.-]

Phenomenal video as always, thank you Requiem. Sincerely appreciate the time and energy you put into making these!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks for watching it Creep, if it wasn't for you guys enjoying them I wouldn't spend as much time as I do creating them! You guys get good value for money on these since it's all free LOL

[@Boslandschap1]

Requiem, for each video I am quite amazed at how instructive, clear and interesting they are to me. With only very moderate knowledge on aerodynamics and the physics of flight, the explanation of what you try to achieve from a tactical point of view and the way you use the physics to achieve those objectives gives me insight in the actual physics that are in play during aerial combat, how they work and how they interact. Thanks for putting your time in making these, and sharing them on YT.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks very much. I really try to approach these so you can understand the concepts of a maneuver when I'm using a given scenario. This way you can apply it regardless of what airplane or sim you're flying. It takes me a little longer than I would like sometimes, but the end result is always worth it...especially when I know how it has helped the understanding of those like yourself. I appreciate the feedback!

[@BCSchmerker]

+RequiemBoS *Some pursuit jets of the 1950's had severe problems in high-alpha flight.* The defensive spiral was not an option for the Adl'A/Avions Marcel Dassault Breguet Mirage (except for the F.1), VVS SSSR/Mikojan-Gurevich-21, or USAF/Lockheed California F-104, as all three aircraft departed sooner than the competition.

[@matswane]

Fantastic video. Concise and professionally done! Best series on the web - hands down!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Matswane, I'm always striving to do these in the best way I feel they can be explained/demonstrated!

[@donc9751]

All of your videos are Excellent Requiem!!! Myself and 2 buddies just got back into IL2 because of VR. We all used to fly alot but after quite a few years of not flying in il2 it's amazing how Terrible I have become, it really is a perishable skill! Thanks to your hard work its helping all of us guys improve faster than we would otherwise!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Don, welcome back to the fold! It will all start coming back :-) How are you enjoying VR? I'm considering making the jump...but dunno if it's quite there yet. Been looking at a Rift S or Reverb (the Index is not my price point lol)

[@donc9751]

@@RequiemsACTL The Air Combat Tutorial Library Thank you for your reply Requiem! I am absolutely loving my Rift S! My 2 friends I mention both have the original Rift, but before I bought 1 they took it off the market until the S came out a few months or so later. It's supposed to have a little better resolution, but I need to fly using my friends CV1 to compare how it looks. I can say while flying they are telling me their fps are close to 80, while mine are always 39-40 . I'm not sure why that is. I know that the friend who I helped get set up has the same GPU as I do, the gtx 1660 ti, while my CPU is faster than his, I have a i7-6700 , I think his was on the i7-4something. I did a lot of looking around esp the HP Reverb which has still better, I think significantly better resolution. I found a series of videos by Steve Walton who was comparing the Reverb , which he was amazed with how nice everything looked with it, vs the Rift S, he flys X-Plane 11, which I also was getting into, and as much as he liked the reverb, he ultimately went with the rift s, he stated the reverb just seemed more jittery in x plane.....but check his videos out he does a pretty good job at comparing them and I think another besides. Search for Steve Walton vr rift s vs reverb , his videos came up for me just now, I checked to make sure. In the vid with the thumbnail of him sitting in a chair I think is where he talks about why. I know others with similar PC specs as mine get decent fps in xplane 11, but I've only been getting low 20s which isnt good enough by far for me. I am new to xplane though and had installed a number of mods prior to attempting to fly it with VR so I'm fairly sure it is something I have or have not set up correctly within that sim and my Rift S and from what others are getting based on their PC specs being so close to mine, I'm thinking it has to be my setup that's the issue. It does look beautiful though that I can say! Frankly, I have been having so much fun in il2 VR, I've put x plane on the back burner for now. At the FPS I've been getting, 40, it flys excellent for me, I can read the cockpit dials very well etc. But flight basics have been more challenging from what they used to be, I could land on one wheel and roll out until gravity dropped it in the past, it's like learning all over, experiencing sink rate on approach is much more realistic and more fun. Crashes can be violent so much so I've closed my eyes, and dog fighting when I get in a little too close and am afraid I'll over speed by so I have barrel rolled over and around, looking down on his canopy while inverted and continuing through the roll until behind again is just an amazing experience! I swear, once you go VR I dont think you will ever go back! I know I won't! I hope you decide to do it. I used to fly a lot of 5v5 il2 competitions, got enough pk's back then I'd been accused of hacking, but I never did. I was much older than most of the kids at the time, in my 40s then I was too dumb lol, we had a guy on our squad that was a Navy F-14 Tomcat pilot that schooled us in tactics, man that really helped. Check those videos out that I mentioned and anything else you can, I was torn between the 2, in the end it came down to $400 vs $600 and Steve's comments between those 2 so I felt good with it. More resolution is never a bad thing though and I bet the reverb is amazing too and better at many things. Good luck! Wow, sorry for the book! But the vr is just that much better for me. Long distance clarity etc will be better on monitor though. Hopefully you can get an opportunity to try them first.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks for the detailed response Don, I'm having a look at the videos you were talking about now. So many people I know who have tried VR say the same thing...once you go you don't come back. I'm not sure I want to lose the ability to spot long targets, but in a sim like DCS where it doesn't really matter as much due to radar I wouldn't mind VR in DCS but stick with TrackIR for Il-2 lol I'm probably going to save my pennies for a Reverb, so we'll see how that pans out...maybe there will be something better down the line too.

[@donc9751]

@@RequiemsACTL You are welcome! I'm more than happy to help in any way I can! You give so much to the community so I am glad to do what I can even if it's just a little info! I'll be studying your videos closely as i rebuild my skills so I subbed your channel, and I think you have a website too I'll check out so thanks are to you! I think the reverb will be amazing! More future proof with its higher res. I was so tempted to go with it too but in the end I figured I'd spend a little less getting in now, and while the other manufacturers build better for less money I could get an even better one down the road.

[@RequiemsACTL]

@@donc9751 No worries Don, I probably won't have VR for a while yet still but will see what happens down the road. I don't have a website other than the blog which I documented my RL flight training with (if that's what you were referring to). If you ever have any questions though always feel free to ask!

[@rring44]

This is one of my favorite moves. I used it the other day in a Typhoon vs a G14. It is so satisfying to be 90deg ahead of him and watch him miss all of his shots.

[@RequiemsACTL]

It's fun to do but it's easy to get so focused on the bad guy you can forget about the ground 😂

[@rring44]

@@RequiemsACTL It is fun to fly the 51D and make a guy black out because they are not used to having less g tolerance.

[@joekim3901]

Love your work! Great stuff.

[@davca333]

Well mister, its enough for me tonight, but before I go I salute you, again great video, very constructive and clear even for flying ignorant like me. Thank you ! Have a good day!

[@RequiemsACTL]

If you watched all the way up to BFM#14 in one day I'm sorry for my accent hurting your eardrums! It's hard enough for me to listen back to a video after I've made it LOL If you ever have questions about a concept you can always ask and I'll do my best to answer. Cheers

[@robertcamargo3282]

Very good job on this series my dude. i hope your channel blows up.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Robert, appeciate that you like it! I don't use advertisements or Patreon so I won't hold my breath on the channel blowing up LOL

[@kentwilliams4152]

Also, if he chooses a defensive spiral you can chop throttle, an keeping your lift vector on him fly vertically down the center of his spiral. Works for me . 🤗

[@radoslawbiernacki]

This one is really good! More real fight examples from attack and defender position using the mentioned technique. This gives better understanding of the material. Thanks!

[@CapFreddy]

In portuguese (brazilian) pilot language, we call that death a "tunneau tatu" or armadillo tunneau due to the fact that it starts as a tunneau and ends inside the earth ... lol

[@RequiemsACTL]

I've heard of another VERY technical term too....the lawn dart :-)

[@zakkyummms]

Excellently explained as usual.

[@romanbru9504]

Отличное видео, то что я искал по нисходящей спирали, спасибо большое

[@Ro6entX]

I know this video is couple of years old but I managed to put it in good use in another game: I was in a low 51D and had high KI67 dive on me. Did this move nearly perfect and set up for good angle when reversed and scored some hits. Had to eegress after his buddy came in.

[@HungrigerHugo89]

This maneuver works rather well against Spitfire MK9s, since they tend to blackout earlier than a FW190, It's been done to me and I have done so to others :) ... generally a good maneuver in FWs!

[@CZ350tuner]

I've used this tactic a heck of a lot on Red Baron II, Rise of Flight, Battle Stations Midway, Battle Stations Pacific, Birds of Steel, IL-2 Stormovik / Pacific Fighters / Forgotten Battles / 1946, IL-2 Birds of Prey, IL-2 CloD - Blitz and IL-2 GB usually because I'm acting as the bait aircraft in my flight and operating with a wingman / team mates. The objective is for the attacker falls into the trap of losing altitude whilst my wingman / team maintain theirs. At the bottom of the spiral I usually pull a Retournement (if I want a shot at my attacker) or a Detachment or a spiral climb with the throttle closed so that he overshoots and becomes a slow moving piñata for my wingman / team mates. My wingman / team then have the attacker presented on a platter for slaughter. The attacker has thrown away any altitude advantage in relation to the rest of my wingman / team, who now have an victim who is trapped low down, unable to make a run for it and contained for elimination. The wiser and experienced, less impetuous players are usually aware that this is a trap being closed on them and break off pursuit to maintain their altitude. Suckers obviously don't and remain target fixated. Works well on solo players (especially on egoistical wannabe aces) but becomes trickier with opponent with a wingman or a cooperating team.

[@RequiemsACTL]

This works even better now that the physiological effects due to G are modeled on the pilots. I've had several Luftwaffe pilots black out and fly in a nice line for me to barrel roll around as they overshoot before shooting them down just as they regain consciousness.

[@TheRaptorXX]

YeeHAAA! Nice one Req! Thanks as ever. Congratulations to myself for the 100th 'like', he said smugly!!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Hey it's all good mate. I know I can count on you Rap for a like! :-)

[@salsadevil]

What about lift vector placement I.e. If you're defensive use lead to take away turning room? If you're offensive use lag to preserve altitude and slow downward movement?

[@romanbru9504]

Если атакую то не иду в спираль, а набираю ещё немного скорости, если враг атакует снизу то начинаю восходящую спираль и враг не дотягивается, как только враг разворачивается к земле то я делаю Hammerhead, и снова атакую его, старайтесь не терять скорость в горизонтальных маневрах, пусть энергию тратит противник на защиту, и рано или поздно мы его собъём

[@Eucsneto]

Now i understood why I use to loose his 6 when I try to follow the bandit spiral. I didnt perform that initial leveled turn before dive behind him

[@Magpie...]

Hey, great lessons as always. Ive used this a lot as I've been learning to dogfight. My question is, are you meant to keep the power off to the very bottom? Or can you start increasing it after the initial turn is done

[@RequiemsACTL]

Keep the power off as long as needed, so basically once the other guy shoots out in front you can start increasing power

[@HernanMoragaMmHs]

Beautifully executed!

[@orionspero560]

If this is a rolling scissors in the vertical downward, then what is a rolling scissors in the vertical upward.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Still a rolling scissors.

[@WolfeYankee]

How is your plane not autocentering? Even on full real controls, it auto levels.

[@Jwalker21NC]

I love this series! Question. If he counters your spiral in the way you described. Is there something we can transition to as the defender instead of the spiral to stay alive? I’ve been in the situation before so just wondering your thoughts. Thanks again!

[@RequiemsACTL]

It's like chess...there ends up being a lot of possibilities to account for which is why I only show the maneuver and a standard counter to it. If they do counter then they're not really competing in the spiral with you so you can relax what you're doing and see what they do and move on from there to try and push them out in front of your 3/9 or extend to get distance between you.

[@kshitijkumar9094]

So then what do you do if the bandit is on your tail, you go for defensive spiral but he doesn't take the bait just like you explained? What's the counter to him not taking the bait?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Just try and extend or dive away to discourage them following you all the way down to the deck as that would make them vulnerable to someone else. Most people fly differently online than in RL where their actual life was at stake though.

[@kshitijkumar9094]

@@RequiemsACTL Thanks for the fast reply man, you're the best teacher. Been binge watching your bfm videos to brush up my basic concepts, I used to play with keyboard back when I was in highschool (original Il2 and Rowan's Battle of Britain) but now I can afford my own HOTAS so here I am. Really appreciate your videos man. Thanks again.

[@Scoobydcs]

does tacview work with il2?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yep!

[@Kilo-sz4ch]

these are extremely useful in alot of games.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah I try to make them so you can apply the principles regardless of what you're flying. Thanks!

[@EinsteinEP]

Brilliant stuff!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers EP, you'll need to take me up in DCS MP sometime...I've been practicing with the Hornet lately but I've never really tried MP in DCS.

[@EinsteinEP]

@@RequiemsACTL Would love to!

[@KerboDrive]

Looks useful for a P-47

[@The666opal111]

Thags PogChamp !

[@zdenekprecechtel6741]

Thank you

[@barbe6503]

God damn these are great..

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers Trueno, did my best to get these concepts across in an understandable way in a reasonable timeframe :-)

[@SiccodeVries]

Great tutorial..as always :)

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers Wolfie :-)

[@AlanDampog]

good stuff!

[@anjelica6494]

Wow

[@onyourkilllist6880]

*_very fucking cool_*

[@icedragon642]

Excellent video as always. I've tried this before and always screw it up, now I see what I was doing wrong. Now once I can get the update to work in Il2 Stormovic Battle of Stalingrad I'll try it if I get into that situation. I've been trying to get the update to work for over weeks to no avail so I'm SOL until I figure it out!!!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers icedragon, it's tricky to get right and it won't always work of course. It's kind of a last ditch maneuver in a way if someone is right up your tailpipe. Regarding your update...look in your installation folder for the "updates" folder and delete the contents inside of it and try again. It should work after that.

[@icedragon642]

@@RequiemsACTL Gotcha I'll try that and hope it works. I know the first time it was going great but then we had a power surge and it shut my computer down, which sucks cause it was over halfway done. After that it wouldn't get 16th done before it said failed!!! I'll try it in about 5 o 10 minutes. Gotta wait for the better half to get home. !!!

[@icedragon642]

UPDATE: i worked!!!! I cleaned out the file and it updated no problem, now lets hope my trip to the hospital goes as well!!! I'm crossing my fingers and every other part of my body that I can lol. My doc I only have a 20% chance of keeping my left leg!!! I already got 1 peg leg I really don't want 2 lol!!!!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Good luck Icedragon, I hope everything works out for you!

[@yoloswaggins7636]

very usefull in single player, but absolutely not against any human in multi, i'm still getting fucked in any dogfight

[@RequiemsACTL]

With the new physiological effects this maneuver works even better now against people. I've forced several guys chasing me during this to lose consciousness, which lets me saddle up behind them and blast them.