Biblical Slavery: Why It's Inexcusable | Old And New Testament

[@sordidknifeparty]

My wife and I are both atheists, but her family are quite fundamentalist in their beliefs. My father-in-law is a good and honest man though I feel he is quite confused about the subject of religion. You can imagine my shock that while having a conversation with him about biblical slavery he tried to pull the "it was just indentured servitude" line on me. When I promptly rebutted with the fact that there are two separate sets of laws, one for the Israelites and one for foreigners he got the funniest look on his face like he was ashamed and I realized that he already knew that and was simply Lying by omission to try and trick me into his position assuming that I wouldn't know. It's amazing to me how otherwise honest people can go to such lengths to justify something so horrible as slavery.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I had this exact experience with my own mother. Yes, these are not bad people who love slavery, but when it comes to their god, they are not willing to address it. So sad

[@stevenhogenson4880]

The most amazing atheist folks like Brandon are those who were raised in the faith and then later left it. Aron Ra, Matt Dillahunty, Seth Andrews , Kristi Burke, etc. They KNOW the bible. They know it better than most believers. I have bibles full of highlighting from my years as a believer. Mostly in the New Testament and places like Psalms. The "nice" stuff. Then I started reading from the beginning. And quickly discovered the problems in Genesis. And the horror of the "good" god of the old testament who is a psychopathic genocidal mass murder, either directly or by proxy. Horrible. Really reading the bible was a huge factor in my own deconversion.

[@katarinatibai8396]

Because they are not honest, not even with them self, they gaslight themselves. And when they knowingly lie to you to feel better about their religion, they hope that you would not know better.

[@katarinatibai8396]

He was not that honest after all when he knew. In this case, he was just ashamed that he got caught

[@idigamstudios7463]

@@MindShift-Brandon I had SUCH a surge of respect for my theology professor in college because he dove into this subject head on. He explicitly said that 'if this is something I'm going to teach it's something that *has* to be discussed. Both to understand the text and its history and its impact on our history.' His example was using the story of Hagar and Abraham, I got even more respect when he didn't make excuses for it. He talked about it as the monstrous institution it is and said anyone who studies the bible and anyone who looks to it for vocation *HAS* to reckon with it.

[@xCringeWorthyx]

I literally had no idea the bible had verses endorsing slavery until i bevame an athiest. When i tried to talk to my mom about the slavery in the bible she literally thought i was lying until i showed her the verses. Her response was something along the lines of "well I think god is good no matter what the bible says".

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I am not surprised but its also so insane!

[@themanwithnoname1839]

When my dad pulled the same with me i said "thanks for assuming your only son is lying to you, and also thanks for believing a book whom youve never met the author nor know of the person actually existed, nor the god that it ties it to, thanks for that father....."

[@Nortio]

God is good no matter what the Bible says? You mean the same bible that tells you God is good?

[@sootuckchoong7077]

The Bible was written by the Hebrew people who are also Jews. They made up their stories to boost their religion and popularity. If God is real, and knows the past, present and future, He would throw Lucifer to another place far in the univerae and not let Lucifer make Adam and Eve to sin, which He should already have known, as He knows the future.

[@plmkoo6772]

​@Nortio of course, and pol pot was a good man since he told me he was!😂

[@Itoldajokeonce]

I love how Christians so easily dismiss the endorsement of slavery in Leviticus because “old testament”, but immediately go to Leviticus to excuse their persecution of the LGBTQ+ community.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Exactly

[@VulcanLogic]

Yeah I brought up Matthew 25:31-46 recently and an actual Christian said that it didn't apply because works don't get you into heaven. I said hey, that's not works, that an actual commandment. He disagreed and said John 3:16 supersedes that. I said oh? So if me and my boyfriend get gay married and have unrepentant gay sex every day for 50 years, do we still get into heaven on John 3:16? He said 'no'. I said, well, you better pay close attention to Matthew 25 because if you REALLY believe that Jesus is God, you better pay attention to the one part of the entire Bible where Jesus tells you how you get sent to hell. I think I scared him witless on that.

[@TheMilitantMazdakite]

@@MindShift-Brandon Dude, you benefit from slavery, too, and yes, the west not only has slavery, but relies upon it. The west systematically plunders the third world with their companies slave labor, then blame those people for wrongs inflicted upon them by the west's Imperialism. When these countries, such as Guatemala, Iran, and Iraq try to shake off the yoke of western imperialism, establish a decent life for their workers, and profit from THEIR resources, the west responds by rigging elections, engineering coups, or even intervening militarily- all to profit the upper class. Ahura Mazda hates the rich! I am a proud Zoroastrian communist, and I am proud to call Christians comrades.

[@tedkoppel4199]

The LGB community is fine. The TQ+ the alphabet community is terrible. Believing in the bible shouldn't be the only reason why people should be ok with protecting children. And it is extremely obvious that the LGBTQ+ community is targeting children, It has the potential to be very damaging mentally and physically to anyone, much less kids. Adults in modern society should be able to make whatever decisions they want, hopefully they're smart enough to educate themselves in these type of decisions. Children should be protected, and adults and parents should be held responsible for harming children in any way. Physically, mentally, and sexually.

[@nickmaz6412]

People pick and choose the tenets of the Bible that fit their own beliefs and opinions and discard the rest…. The same books of the Bible that admonish homosexuality or premarital sex also prohibits eating pork or wearing clothes made of certain fabrics. Nearly all religious people would have no problem telling a homosexual that they are living a life God would not approve of while simultaneously eating a bacon sandwich in their favorite wool and linen blend sweater.

[@F-hj9mz]

Nailed it! I watched this one on your old channel, but had no problem watching it again. It is just packed to the brim with solid information. This was like 1.5 hours of info in 40 some min. This is your gift. Give us all the info you can, man!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

oh wow, thanks for the double support. Trust me I could have taken 2 hours to talk on this, so glad you found the shorter version still dense with info. Thank you!

[@DuXQaK]

Nailed it! Wrong topic mate... That's crucifixion

[@TheMilitantMazdakite]

@@MindShift-Brandon No, the West uses slave labor, it is built upon slave labor, and most of the things you own are built by slave labor. For example, the computer you used to make this video was made by child labor in China. Oh, let us not forget that, yes, these laborers are getting r*ped by their bosses, they work 11 hours a day, are paid pennies an hour, are trapped in their factories, and are literally put on suicide watch! All so that you could have the computer you used to make this video. Meanwhile, Zoroastrianism first came up with communism, and we passed that torch to Christianity. The Mazdakites. The Khurramites. The Taborites. and many others. Such a heroic legacy we have. We will shatter the chains of capitalism, and bring the world into the light of communism!

[@tim-climber84]

Thank you for your passion and clarity. I deconstructed my faith over the course of my late 20’s and was about 31 when I realized I was an atheist. Your story is very close to mine and now, 7 years on, I still deal with the religious trauma. I channel grows and helps others. Your review of “A Short Stay in Hell” was so powerful

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Man, really appreciate that! Sorry to hear you are still dealing with the fallout. I am only 3 years post and so much on a daily basis still. But all for the better! Glad we found the truth. Thanks again for being here!

[@tim-climber84]

@@MindShift-Brandon for me, a lot of it is the black and white thinking that I still employ. You seem to be modeling a more nuanced and complex process and I find that to be refreshing and helpful.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Glad to hear. My only real goal for this channel is helping others so thanks for the encouragement

[@9432515]

Test biblical prophecy. It’s happening. Rev13

[@ratamacue0320]

​@@9432515biblical "prophecy" is largely taking prior stories out of context, and retrodictions. Sometimes they even misquote (or mistranslate) the sources. The "prophecies" cited in the gospel of Matthew are some of the silliest. It's like applying movie quotes to your own life. It's fun, but there's nothing divine, and no evidentiary value.

[@solomonessix6909]

I deconstructed in my late 30’s. The issue of slavery was just one of many issues with Christianity that I found to be vile and intolerable. I’m now freely non-religious.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Same here! Welcome to the truth.

[@theboombody]

Well, North Korea has prison camps for those Christians you know.

[@davidlittlewood4215]

And I suppose you welcome. The truth is that the atheistic regime of North Korea enslaves all its people, as does China with its own atheistic regime? Good old atheism

[@davidlittlewood4215]

@@MindShift-Brandon so what about the truth that atheist regimes today are enslaving thousands of people in China and North Korea? Why don’t you live in these Utopias?

[@polystrate1]

Covid was a blessing for many to deconstruct

[@klhaldane]

I find that phrase "set her free" to be completely horrifying. She'd from a different nation, has no money, no family, no friends, and you can simply kick her into the street for failing to please you sexually. You think she's going to be okay? She'd be lucky to make it to the edge of town, and then she'll starve to death on the road.

[@9432515]

Set here free from any debt. Servants had free everything..medical/room and board, free training and education (Gentiles)…Hebrews had the addition of full debt redemption and full grant after 6 to start a new life. Deut15.14. This was God’s good plan to rid poverty throughout the land..Hebrews first then outsource the Gentiles to do the same. Verse6

[@SharedPhilosophy]

@@9432515 In verse 3 it clearly states that foringers have to pay the isrealite who lended them the money back. So god's plan here is rid the land of Israel of poverty BUT then use that wealth to control other nations by basically becoming a bank for the other nations, it isn't about getting the other nations out of poverty. In verse 6, it says that Israel can lend to the other nations, but this doesn't solve the issue of poverty for the gentiles as they STILL have to PAY BACK the israelites which they borrowed from. Most of god's commands in the old testament is in the benefit of the israelites and doesn't favor any of the gentile nations, because of the fact that these israelite people made this religion in their image and used to benefit their society.

[@TaxEvasi0n]

Love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I don't have an explanation for everything, but you guys seem to ignore some of the core character traits portrayed as soon as you come across a difficult passage. Either way, if someones belief in God is afflicted because of 2000 year old cultural differences and lack of hermaneutics training, then what even was your belief based on anyway? The evidence for Gods existence is literally everywhere from archeology to biology to physics. People have come to a belief in God through all the sciences. When you compile all the evidence, it becomes pretty impenetrable. Especially when you line it with evolution, and how evolution hides behind a multitude of statistical near impossibilities, and that's not even with physics as a factor.

[@timmysleftnutsack5075]

@@TaxEvasi0n you worship a religion that enables sexual slavery😂😂 fuck off. At least Muslims don’t enable sexual slavery in their holy book, despite being the most oppressive. It blows my mind how much progressive the Quran is than the Bible

[@mrsatire9475]

@@TaxEvasi0n So it's not the Word of God it's just some cultural book

[@scottsmith2235]

A Christian’s first thought when confronted with this dilemma is to automatically “realize” that God and the Bible can’t possibly be wrong-so it must be that we are reading it wrong. Then, as we have discussed, the “indentured servitude” card gets played because that’s all they know to do. And this is a fantastic video presentation of the hard issues that Christians would love to “wish it into the cornfield.”

[@9432515]

Read Deut15 slowly. That’s God’s plan to rid poverty throughout the land..first Hebrews then outsource the Gentiles to do the same thing. How? Verse6, LOANS. It’s all about redemption for good reason. Redeemer is Christ redeeming the world of debt…fin&sin

[@scottsmith2235]

@@9432515 There is no plan of God-because there is no god. If you will study the Bible all the way through and learn its origins you will be an atheist like I am. The Bible is a big storybook that cannot be demonstrated to be true. Even what you have said isn’t true at all. Is God ridding the world of poverty? Hell no. God can’t even feed starving children. The stupid story of Jesus feeding the five thousand is just a story. Is God doing anything anywhere? No. Wake up and embrace reality. Atheism is on the rise and the Christian apologists (liars) are desperate to keep people in the fold because churches are losing money and many shutdown every year.

[@scottsmith2235]

@@9432515 There is no plan of God because there is no god. You say that God wants to rid the world of poverty-well it’s not working now is it? God cannot even feed starving children. The Bible cannot be demonstrated to be true. If you would actually study the Bible and learn it’s origins you would become an atheist like myself.

[@scottsmith2235]

@@9432515So you can’t handle replies.

[@scottsmith2235]

@@9432515There is no plan of God because there is no god.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Welcome everyone. This is another video brought over from my previous channel. Similar to Tuesday's video on Trent Horn's defense of hell, today we look at Frank Turek's defense. Plus a more thorough look at what the bible really says. Enjoy.

[@Chloe_Titles]

I am a black woman and this is where my journey away from Christianity began. Learning about Slavery in America, learning I am a descendant and then questioning GOD.

[@induction7895]

Also destroyed African culture and traditions.

[@themanwithnoname1839]

Its so bad when people lead with their skin color, cuz that is the topic at hand right? NOT slavery in general which included EVERYONE?

[@themanwithnoname1839]

​​@@induction7895incorrect, and severly so, africans still have their traditions....... Dont believe me? Go meet the tribes who to this day arent even aware that europe exists due to their severe lack of knowledge due to their traditional ways

[@finejustgivemeaname]

While all facts in this video, and I’m empathic to your decision, make no doubt all other religions are the same. Hinduism, Islam, indigenous American religions, etc. Buddhism might be an exception as I don’t know much about it. I’m sure there is an element there too given the belief in reincarnation and certain people atoning for previous lives’ transgressions.

[@Cat_Woods]

I'm sorry you got so much ahistorical BS in response to what you shared. Thank you for sharing it.

[@SingleDigitDriven]

Frank makes bullet points about slavery, audience applauds. The rest of us…..🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[@Quancept]

exactly

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

Im convinced this species are idiots until extinction

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

Preach it, man. (Pun intended. 😁) This was a *big* issue for me when I started questioning. The sexual aspect to the slavery especially, because of how glaringly it contradicts the "Thou shalt not commit adultery." commandment. You grow up being taught that the Bible is a book of love, then gasp in horror at the brutality of it later. And all those arguments about the Old Testament being a work in progress I find laughable. How hard is it to say, "Hey, don't slaughter, enslave, rape, and brutalize people."? And plus, why not just do things right the first time?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

you always reframe it all so well. Thanks for the comment. This feels like it should be the softball of all softballs for why god isnt good and the fact that its so debated amazes me!

[@katarinatibai8396]

💯💯💯🎯this. And I can tell you that the answer will be : God act in mysterious ways.... That's why I am not willing to discuss religion, morality, or any social issues with relligiouse people. You can't reason with unreasonable people. That goes for all religions.

[@Cat-o-mancer]

I always find it laughable how people revere the "10 Commandments". Like, I'm sorry but half of them are just reminding you to dickride God and the other half are things God either does or condones in the Bible.

[@DocHoleInTheDay]

They can call it “The good kind of slavery” but that doesn’t change the fact that per The Law, “The Good Kind of Slaves” were treated as Property and not People

[@MrPladdy]

Deut 23:15 - If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. 16 Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them. If someone's dog runs away or they drop their screwdriver, are you disallowed to return them to the owner? Slaves protected as people, not treated as property

[@9432515]

Bad translations use property but either way, possession/property in lev25 is by contract..debt contract, hence redemption by Redeemer. They were loans (Deut15) WITH option to have God totally absolve all debt (fin&sin) by covenant redemption. Deut29.10

[@theboombody]

Could still happen in a world without religion too. State-endorsed non-religious based slavery is most definitely not an impossibility, sad to say.

[@shanecollins5875]

​@@theboombody that describes all western nations. Owned by bankers.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@theboombodyhow would that play out

[@deb6252]

Every time you passionately declare "this is disgusting" (when it so obviously is - absolutely) I can feel myself heal. Being supported to trust your own ethics, integrity and understanding. Instead of all the gaslighting and manipulation.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thats a really interesting point. I am glad to be of any use. Thanks for letting me know

[@theboombody]

Why is a moral relativist like this guy calling anything disgusting? Why doesn't he say it all depends on your point of view, like moral relativists do?

[@JtheCritic]

​@@theboombody all morals are relative, even religious morals. Why do you think there are thousands of religions, and thousands of denominations of Christians? Because God isn't here to tell us bluntly want it means, mankind has to interpret the scriptures, and they usually interpret it to fit their local culture. 500 years ago, practically every Christian thought slavery and beating your wife was God's design, and suddenly all that changes after being the accepted truth for 1500 years. It's all relative in the end.

[@theboombody]

@@JtheCritic Yeah, but when you say one form of relativism is wrong, you're making an absolutist claim.

[@JtheCritic]

@@theboombody yes, If you were to say we should kill someone because they have killed someone else and the death penalty is the right punishment, if I provided reliable evidence of their innocence, proving that they didn't kill the person, then you would be wrong to kill them, because the justification you used to give them the death penalty is proven wrong. It is morally relative whether killing someone is right or wrong, because changing circumstances will change the factors to consider, but if your argument for killing them is proven to be factually false (they are innocent of the crime you accuse them of), then under your own logic of why they should be killed, you are factually wrong. If you want to kill someone because you say they are infected with an extremely contagious and lethal disease, but I prove that they are not infected with that disease, then your reason for killing them is factually and objectively wrong.

[@davidoliver9551]

I really appreciate the time you take with these challenging topics in the bible.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you. This particular issue is at the top of my list, so more to come on this for sure.

[@9432515]

@@MindShift-BrandonYou are misrepresenting the Bible. Is it deliberate or were you thrown off by idgets like dillahunty and the likes? Honest question there. Are you after truth? If you discover how off you are, would you question your bad stance in other places? I can literally prove to you this was NOT ownership but loan servitude.

[@davidlittlewood4215]

@@MindShift-Brandon as it’s top of your list, what are you doing about helping the 400 million slaves in the world today?

[@tomsenior7405]

I am eternally grateful to my Form Teacher in my first year of Middle School. Mr W laid out a simple solution to ending slavery, once and for all. He started with: When the slaves were led out of Egypt to freedom, they already loathed the practice. When creating a brand new culture and a brand new religion, it should have been a simple step to command 'you shall not own people. Ever!' Imagine a new nation prospering without the dark shadow of slavery in any form. When Jesus comes along, imagine his teachings reinforced this command. Christians today would benefit from a global influence that freed their fellow humans from this vile practice. The world would love Christianity, god, Jesus and the ghost. We would not need Apologists dancing a merry dance and lying through their teeth. It took until the C18th for a movement to rise in England demanding an end to slavery and the slave trade. This was passed into English Law by 1807. The British Empire diverted an astronomical amount of resources and monies to police the seas and prosecute Slave Traders. This went against biblical teachings. This did not stop the Church of England from claiming all the Glory. If only god had thought of this, there would be a heck of a lot more good will toward the faith.

[@9432515]

Deut15 is God’s plan for His fledgling nation and kingdom of people. It says rid poverty til it exists no more. How? Loans. First the Hebrews then outsource the Gentiles to do the same. Verse 6…LOANS, hence why it’s all about redemption of debt, fin&sin. Hebrews first then Gentiles. You need only enter into that covenant marriage to God..Deut 29.10-15. So no. The Bible is not about slavery and ownership possession but redemption of DEBT both financial and sin debt as they have eternal, permanent repercussions. It’s why the Hebrews were commanded to treat the Gentiles w rigorou..strictness. NO LENIENCY whatsoever over debt, even the slightest amount must be paid in full. That’s Christ. Accept the Redeemer!

[@tomsenior7405]

@@9432515 Why are you telling me this? Shouldn't you be busy persecuting Atheists.

[@AntonioCunningham-jr2oj]

Hey how about the Arab slave trade why is Christians aren't talking about this islam really condoning slavery and it actually still going on in the Middle East

[@tomsenior7405]

@@AntonioCunningham-jr2oj You will have to ask the Christians about "why is Christians aren't talking about this islam really condoning slavery and it actually still going on in the Middle East". My suspicion is, for as long as there is demand for oil from the Middle East, The Superpowers will do nothing to intervene.

[@tomsenior7405]

@@AntonioCunningham-jr2oj "What aboutism" is a deeply flawed argument. All you are doing is acknowledging that you are guilty of doing that which someone else is doing. By using this response, you are basically saying "Hey, why pick on me, what about all my friends who are doing it". Also, I AM referring to religion and the endorsement of this vile practice by the so-called "Moral". I have not singled out Christians. My story starts with the biblical Myth. Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have this story in their holy books. Please go back and read my comment and tell me where I stated that only Christians are guilty. Finally, there are ongoing attempts to deal with this issue in the Middle East. Why don't you consider a job with one of the many organisations, charities and governments and make a difference? I wish you well. Need more help? Talk to an expert. Talk to a professional. Avoid Apologists who use Whataboutism.Best Wishes.

[@BookishChas]

This was an excellent exposition of the topic Brandon. Truly a problem point that so many Christian apologists gloss over.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much, sir!

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

​@@MindShift-BrandonI don't know if you got the last reply I sent you so I'm sending it again: Chattel slavery was never practised by the Israelites. Slavery in the Bible as practised by the Israelites included indentured Hebrew servants, child sacrificing war captives and the actual slaves whom the Israelites bought from foreign nations, the reasons for which I shall now explain: Imagine you were a Jew in Old Testament times who was rich and needed hands to work for you and the nation next to you were wicked enough to get their own people and sell them into slavery, which wasn't uncommon for the Gentile nations surrounding the Israelites at the time. You wouldn't want to save at least the number of those you could from landing in possibly terrible masters? Flogging was to be done only when a slave was caught slacking off, stealing or being aggressive. Slaves were viewed in the same way as children back then (and I'm using the term 'same' rather loosely as it's an analogy and they weren't actually seen as children) that ought to corrected with rods (which aren't big, heavy sticks if that is what you were thinking) when they misbehaved in accordance to the misdemeanour, 'cause think about it, what else should they have done to them? Send them back to the people who sold them or let them roam in their country? (Keep in mind that they were foreigners and it would be dangerous to just let foreigners roam free in your country in such numbers).Deut.23:15-16; 24:14-15; 24:17-22 all give instructions on how foreigners whether slave, servant or free man were to be treated. Beating slaves with rods (which is an old word for cane) was allowed because their masters provided everything for them just as they would their children making them in the position of parents to the slaves, meaning that even when correcting wrong behaviour it had to done to the slave as they would do to their own child (and this is under the presumption that they are a good parent) and also when the slave had deliberately erred in some way such as stealing or dereliction of duty. Owning slaves was legitimised in Israel for two reasons: There was a need for sufficient labour and the other nations were exceedingly wicked meaning a kind, loving people were needed to liberate as many of them as possible which would explain why they even sold their own people while Deut.24:7 forbade Israelites from selling each other but it didn't permit selling Gentiles, check the earlier Bible portions. "Why didn't God just abolish slavery there and then?" First, the Israelites never practised chattel slavery and if one particular evil were to be ended He would have to end all others too, including lying. (Yes, it is an evil if you didn't know as good and evil vary in intensity just like shades of white and black). Since all humans have or will lie in future then all of us would be destroyed including babies as prevention is better than cure. "Then why were we made anyway if this would all happen?" It is because God is love and He desires to love and be loved which explains the creation of the universe and us humans. It was because of our abuse of His love through the misuse of free will that humanity is in this current state of declining morals If you're planning to ask: "Would you like to be a slave?" I'd ask slave in what context?Slave in what context? In that over 2000 years ago when health insurance, soup kitchens didn't exist some kind foreigner agreed to take care of all my needs as long as I behaved? In that case, then yes, but only in that case. "Slavery" as I explained was necessary at the time to cater for maltreated foreigners and hold down rebellious prisoners of war from the evil nations they conquered. When the Israelites sent messengers to Gentile cities it wasn't to kind, peaceful people, it was to unrepentant child sacrificers and practitioners of sexual immorality. The Lord even tells the Israelites through Moses that if they ever became like them they too would face His wrath which they did severally throughout the Old Testament. The same reason for owning slaves and hitting them as I said in my earlier comment also applied in New Testament times until such a means of help was no longer necessary. The American slave traders twisted the Bible and shoved lies down the throats of their preaching only of obedience to their masters while ignoring other equally relevant parts. I hope all your misconceptions on slavery among the Israelites and early Christians have now been cleared?

[@louisfields5659]

I feel like I’ve said, for a while now, is: why didn’t God simply say “Don’t OWN PEOPLE?” Seems pretty simple to me…but I’m just a filthy sinner…

[@MindShift-Brandon]

yeah what do we know. Obviously slavery is something an all good god would want...

[@UMBR.]

Why didn't he simply say "Don't kill your unruly children"? There could have been a verse about educating unruly children instead of murdering them. Why didn't he simply say "Don't rape people" instead of "If you rape someone, this will happen..."? The fact that the rapist gets to marry the victim is spun as a punishment: "He will never he allowed to divorce her"... that shit is really twisted. Nevermind how the victim feels about that.

[@9432515]

Ex21.16 is death sentence to all in that trade..owner, seller, holder. Manstealing. Lev25 uses possession/property (bad translations) but it’s possession by contract, debt contract not possession by ownership. V23

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@UMBR.It's R*PE with extra steps

[@not_a_theist]

Your invitation for someone to leave their justification of owning slaves reminded me of ‘the veil of ignorance’. Would love it if you made a video on that sometime. Thanks for what you do.

[@stanmuller2870]

I commend you on this thoughtful analysis on the topic and pursuit of understanding. I’m a parent too so I completely understand. Critical thinking is what society needs more of.

[@Sarappreciates]

This is that same old biblical conversation in the PROSPERITY GOSPEL about "masters" and "servants" that always comes up when discussing politics with many Christian conservatives. According to this belief, "masters" (or "job creators") shouldn't pay taxes, while "servants" should absolutely be taxed for all the societal contributions workers get to enjoy that "masters" provide. Prosperity = Holy in the Prosperity Gospel. This notion permeates a lot of our modern political landscape today. Coupled with the "Faith Over Acts" belief that actions don't matter as long as you believe Jesus died for our sins, it fosters all the excuses anyone needs to wave off whatever amount of "blessed" corrupt behavior (and even criminal activities) of the extremely wealthy. Christianity is 100% political. I know that's a controversial thing to say, but the more I encounter Evangelical Christians, the more I'm aware of the politics, and it's why I wish the IRS would take church tax exemptions more seriously when we have mountains of video footage of churches all over the USA preaching for whomever they think their congregation should vote. I know we started on "slavery," but the Prosperity Gospel is part of the modern day consequence of that entire biblical "master and slave" train of thought.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

always fine with a tangent! I really enjoyed hearing the direction this went from you and agree so much! thinking back to how much politics were preached from the pulpit in my churches growing up. It was an abuse of influence to say the least!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

i am always fascinated when everyone excuses the modern form of religion as everyone having it wrong. This is the fruit of the word. maybe we should judge the word by it like Jesus teaches.

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

​@@josephpchajek2685it's Christianity which is flat out wrong. The more which is discovered about that entity the more unsatisfactory and eventually abhorrent it becomes. Tired of morally bankrupt "theists" constantly flogging the same dead, rotting horse after their "arguments" have long since been disproved, debunked and discredited. There's none so blind as those that will not see.

[@karenmoody2763]

Most people don't realize how easy it is to register as a church ,some motorcycle gangs do that

[@CZH3982]

I absolutely love how his messages are delivered; not as an angry 'Atheist', but a thoughtful caring person I've always considered myself. (Educational background really helps ME) Yup, always good 😊😊

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks for that!

[@jeffrutan2344]

To me, the obvious reason the Bible consistently endorses and never forbids slavery is that God desires His people to be His fully committed slaves.

[@thedriedge24]

THIS. I mean looking at the bible as a whole, that is woven into everything god does. And christians are point-blank called 'slaves of righteousness' post-salvation

[@jojobizarrelivingstone594]

Exactly they say 'free of the slavery of sin and now a slave of god' like thats somehow good

[@9432515]

Lol. No. In covenant with God meant you were His servant, like you are married to your spouse and out of choice and love (awl thru flesh into wood--Christ) you chose to serve. It’s a loving relationship. That’s the point

[@chrisbrooks4032]

@@9432515Are you serious? If you are, you are literally fucking retarded

[@theboombody]

@@jojobizarrelivingstone594 Definitely better than being a slave to sin. Being a slave to sin is no fun once you realize it.

[@russellmillar7132]

It's quite disheartening sometimes when I hear people who I would otherwise consider kind, intelligent and/or thoughtful attempt to normalize the horrors described in the bible. I'm sure that few of the people who engage in this would support slavery, genocide, rape etc. in real time. They are quick to defend these practices in the Bible, however, claiming "that's the way it was back then". And, well, I have to agree. If I were raised as a member of one of the tribes of plains Indians in north America, say Oglala Sioux, in 700 CE, I would be raised in a culture wherein slavery was practiced and accepted. And If I were raised in any nation in the Near East (or almost anywhere else) same story. The crux here is that many Christians won't accept that their precious Bible isn't flawless. That their belief in the Christian tale is based on the belief that scripture is inerrant and describes an all good, and all merciful God/Savior. The people who wrote the Bible might have edited out the parts that we today find gruesome, heinous, and immoral but they (or God) didn't. They (or God) didn't see these things as wrong. We homo sapiens have generally discarded practices as inhumane and adopted others that we see as more in keeping with our moral values, w/o the need to refer to an ancient text written by people who considered slavery just business as usual.

[@PrometheanRising]

I hadn't made the connection about the master knowing the kid was his, but even if that were not the case the month is not a kindness, but a kind of perverse psychological torture.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

disgusting all around.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

Like this is the stuff you see in fiction

[@soyevquirsefron990]

God appeared to Abraham out of nowhere and made promises and that was enough for Abraham to circumcise himself. If Abraham did that, he’d have stopped holding slaves too if God told him not to, and God could just as easily appear to the other nations and tell them to stop too

[@Cat-o-mancer]

I know this wasn't your point and admittedly I haven't bothered to dive into a Bible in a very long time but what is God's obsession with dickskin anyway? Why does he hate it and why did he create every male with it if he hates it so much and demands we cut it off? I guess we chalk it up to his typical malignant narcissism, right? "If you really loved me, you'd take a knife to your junk, and while you're at it, your children's junk."

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

And he be a r*pist so there that, poor hagar

[@soundhealingbygene]

I love how you point out the intent of certain verses and who those passages were originally for.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you!

[@therhapsodist976]

If human beings do need some divine example for morality, then the Bible's God falls horribly short.

[@katarinatibai8396]

💯💯💯🎯 This god does just all that a human who is not a genuine psychopath wouldn't do.

[@errolwhyte1450]

You're doing an awesome job. There is so much confusion about salvation. Even getting baptized is confusing. Immersed, poured, sprinkled, which magic words to say, baptized forward or backward, single dunking or three? Confusion.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh man, great points

[@a.b.2405]

I’m sure if you can tell a group of people not to eat pork or shellfish, you can also tell them not to own another human being. But who am I to judge?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

This is it 100%. Its so simple

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

It seems so complicated for god. 😂

[@noggim1341]

except... not eating pork and shellfish does not put you at a massive disadvantage to all other nations around you, the israelites wouldve been outcompeted and overrun by another power that had zero regard for the issue of slavery (and that lacked the moral foundations to spearhead its abolition) sometimes you need to get your hands dirty in order to win.

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

​@@MindShift-BrandonChattel slavery was never practised by the Israelites. Slavery in the Bible as practised by the Israelites included indentured Hebrew servants, child sacrificing war captives and the actual slaves whom the Israelites bought from foreign nations, the reasons for which I shall now explain: Imagine you were a Jew in Old Testament times who was rich and needed hands to work for you and the nation next to you were wicked enough to get their own people and sell them into slavery, which wasn't uncommon for the Gentile nations surrounding the Israelites at the time. You wouldn't want to save at least the number of those you could from landing in possibly terrible masters? Flogging was to be done only when a slave was caught slacking off, stealing or being aggressive. Slaves were viewed in the same way as children back then (and I'm using the term 'same' rather loosely as it's an analogy and they weren't actually seen as children) that ought to corrected with rods (which aren't big, heavy sticks if that is what you were thinking) when they misbehaved in accordance to the misdemeanour, 'cause think about it, what else should they have done to them? Send them back to the people who sold them or let them roam in their country? (Keep in mind that they were foreigners and it would be dangerous to just let foreigners roam free in your country in such numbers).Deut.23:15-16; 24:14-15; 24:17-22 all give instructions on how foreigners whether slave, servant or free man were to be treated. Beating slaves with rods (which is an old word for cane) was allowed because their masters provided everything for them just as they would their children making them in the position of parents to the slaves, meaning that even when correcting wrong behaviour it had to done to the slave as they would do to their own child (and this is under the presumption that they are a good parent) and also when the slave had deliberately erred in some way such as stealing or dereliction of duty. Owning slaves was legitimised in Israel for two reasons: There was a need for sufficient labour and the other nations were exceedingly wicked meaning a kind, loving people were needed to liberate as many of them as possible which would explain why they even sold their own people while Deut.24:7 forbade Israelites from selling each other but it didn't permit selling Gentiles, check the earlier Bible portions. "Why didn't God just abolish slavery there and then?" First, the Israelites never practised chattel slavery and if one particular evil were to be ended He would have to end all others too, including lying. (Yes, it is an evil if you didn't know as good and evil vary in intensity just like shades of white and black). Since all humans have or will lie in future then all of us would be destroyed including babies as prevention is better than cure. "Then why were we made anyway if this would all happen?" It is because God is love and He desires to love and be loved which explains the creation of the universe and us humans. It was because of our abuse of His love through the misuse of free will that humanity is in this current state of declining morals.

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

​@@MindShift-BrandonIf you're planning to ask: "Would you like to be a slave?" I'd ask slave in what context?Slave in what context? In that over 2000 years ago when health insurance, soup kitchens didn't exist some kind foreigner agreed to take care of all my needs as long as I behaved? In that case, then yes, but only in that case. "Slavery" as I explained was necessary at the time to cater for maltreated foreigners and hold down rebellious prisoners of war from the evil nations they conquered. When the Israelites sent messengers to Gentile cities it wasn't to kind, peaceful people, it was to unrepentant child sacrificers and practitioners of sexual immorality. The Lord even tells the Israelites through Moses that if they ever became like them they too would face His wrath which they did severally throughout the Old Testament. The same reason for owning slaves and hitting them as I said in my earlier comment also applied in New Testament times until such a means of help was no longer necessary. The American slave traders twisted the Bible and shoved lies down the throats of their preaching only of obedience to their masters while ignoring other equally relevant parts. I hope all your misconceptions on slavery among the Israelites and early Christians have now been cleared?

[@peterhetherington914]

Jesus said “I did not come to abolish the law…” the law which contains instruction on slavery…..therefore he endorsed it.

[@terrencelockett4072]

The point I think christian apologists ignore when trying to defend slavery is it defeats their idea of objective morality. Even if we take their idea of claiming it was only indentured servitude for everyone, some people have a pretty good argument for why indentured servitude isn't really moral either.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Indentured Servitude is still absolutely disgusting. A child born during this 7 year period is kept forever...That singular fact destroys everything!

[@katarinatibai8396]

​@@MindShift-Brandon💯💯💯

[@katarinatibai8396]

💯💯💯

[@jetskiwillywilly7970]

Tell me your clue less without telling me. You're a slave right now...but you don't see it. Don't pay your taxes and what happens? So you are owned....yet you don't get on a plane and leave.

[@JeantheSecond]

One thing you didn’t bring up is what happens to the woman who was taken captive and raped if her rapists is no longer interested in her. What options did an unmarried, “humiliated”, childless woman have in that society? How does she survive?

[@TruthSeeker-c6z]

If God commanded something like "Rape is not her fault, society should comfort her and help make her life normal", people would believers have done that. The problem waa that the creators of God were not that empathetic and practical.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

This is the shet you see in anime with mind control

[@ToastUrbath]

Unfortunately slavery was never abolished in the US: slavery is reserved only as punishment and thus prisons, especially private prisons, can legally use prisoners as slaves. Thanks America.

[@KGH3000]

Yes, it always bothers me when someone says slavery was abolished throughout the western world or that the US doesn't have slavery anymore. The fact that slavery is practiced to this day in the US and no one seems to know or care is mind-boggling. It is an absolutely reprehensible, unacceptable state of affairs.

[@ToastUrbath]

@@KGH3000 when you realize we went from approximately 4 million slaves in 1860 to roughly 2 million slaves in 2022. It’s hard not to be embarrassed of this country.

[@MrJohndolphin]

You don't agree prisons using prisoners as slaves? What would you suggest?

[@Tim.Foster123]

Why is it immoral to make prisoners work? I see no problem with it at all.

[@ToastUrbath]

@@Tim.Foster123 Because that's called slavery. Hope this helps.

[@Betttty]

Man you recommend this video in secular bible study and I was worth it 🎉

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks for jumping around with me!

[@melissatanaka4808]

".... killing himself, to himself, for a couple of days" 😂

[@Jwhit91]

I am learning so much from your channel! Can I make a request, my biggest confusion lies in some of what you mentioned here. Old T Vs New T. I hear so many different takes on what to pay attention to and why. Can you go deeper on that topic?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you! and yes its such a huge and confusing topic. I for sure want to do an all-encompassing video covering the issue at large, but did you have a specific view or issue you wanted to learn more about?

[@chrisbyrne17]

@@MindShift-Brandon this would be a great vid 👌

[@Jwhit91]

@@MindShift-Brandon I just get so confused, what is the view supposed to be? Is the NT an add on, a redoing of the OT, an addendum, etc. how do Christians rationalize it?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ahh i see. Got ya! Hopefully coming soon! Thanks for the request.

[@nickbrasing8786]

Hey JW. OT vs. NT is a really complicated subject to be sure, so you are in good company with your confusion. Even the early Christians had similar issues. It's kind of what the first council of Nicaea was all about. In what sense was Jesus God? Are the OT laws (like slavery) no longer relevant because of Jesus? If so, are the 10 commandments no longer relevant? Even though Jesus himself said he did not come to change the law? That not one jot or tittle would change before all had come to pass? You'll get different answers from different people. There's a reason you're confused. Because it's confusing! And has been for 2,000 years. Brandon is right when he says that Jesus and God are the same person. It's the whole concept of the Trinity. A confusion in and of itself if you just think about it. So yours is a simple question without a simple answer. You just have to find the one that works for you. But there are dozens of rabbit holes you have to go down to really get your arms around it. Like who wrote the Gospels? That's a career in and of itself. Marcianism, Arianism, etc. Such a complicated subject with no easy answer. I wish Brandon luck if he takes that on....

[@KenSketcher]

Fantastic knowledge Brandon. No wonder the preachers dislike you. You know more than those nasty apologists know.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you much!

[@TonyThomas10000]

I am glad to see Gavin Ortlund from "Truth Unites" engage with this video today. "Slavery in the Bible: Answering Atheist Critiques"

[@therhapsodist976]

One of my seminary professors claimed that slaves in the New Testament lived comparably to the house staff in Downton Abbey. 🧐 Somehow I doubt that. 🤔

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Holy hell, thats just ridiculous.

[@MarcWhitaker]

Who was tending the flocks, the fields, digging in the mines, etc.? If there was ever a time and place where the life of a slave was worse than 1850 Mississippi, it was in a Roman mine or as a Roman farm slave.

[@alisaurus4224]

Wowwww

[@alisaurus4224]

Even were that true, isn’t the entire point of the show that those servants didn’t have it that great? On-call day and night to do physical labor with unregulated chemical cleaning agents, only half a day to yourself per week, if dismissed you are homeless, if given bad/no reference letter you are unemployable as anything but basic labor probably in a dangerous factory. (Never mind the many maids turned out after being sexually assaulted by family or other staff, unable to even file a police report unless they were beaten and probably not given much credence then.) And Downton shows the ABSOLUTE BEST version, where the employers had compassion and helped staff get medical care etc. They would’ve been socially and legally justified to dismiss the cook when her cataracts were impacting her work.

[@PrometheanRising]

​@MarcWhitaker I am pretty sure that there is slavery going on right now that is at least as bad.

[@jessikacaroline72]

I am stunned even after all this time accompanying the channel you still manage to bring some new relevant points to your analysis. Particularly I never acknowledge this passage of the slave woman. I am horrified, really. Nice appointments!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you for the kind words

[@chamicels]

There are some twisted minds in the comments defending slavery.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

im waiting for them to all pool up and then going to make a video on them all lol

[@goldenalt3166]

​@@MindShift-BrandonIt forces them to choose between believing the Bible and believing in the God they want.

[@2l84me8]

That’s the power of religion: to rob you of critical thinking and empathy while making excuses for horrible actions.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

Human are foolish till extinction

[@macmainemusik5913]

Thank you for this video. It answers a lot of questions of todays world. Especially discrimination.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Moral of the story Is that yahweh is the ultimate slave master. Without a doubt.

[@9432515]

God of the Bible cannot be the slave master and the Redeemer..at the same time. That’s ridiculous reasoning your part. Redemption is buyback from DEBT….hence redemption by Redeemer, of GENTILES. The world.

[@HadassahAkusani]

Your commentary is awesome!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you!

[@RaymondRossell]

I couldn't hit the like button hard enough

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha! Thank you!

[@KellyDVance]

Just want to point out, that the "waiting a month" wasn't a kindness to the woman who was just captured, in as much as it was a way to find out if she was pregnant. A 28 day span is generally enough to know if she had her period. Got to make sure any pregnancies are the rapists, not anyone else's.

[@A-WallfromAL]

Bingo!! Same thought occurred to me.

[@A-WallfromAL]

And have you ever wondered how they figured out who was a virgin and who wasn’t? Consider that for a moment. Ugh.

[@KellyDVance]

@@A-WallfromAL I would assume they would consider any women over a certain age, and any women who were married/mothers, to have known a man. This means they were looking at women who were barely into puberty.

[@A-WallfromAL]

@@KellyDVance Yep. That or looking at hymens. Ew.

[@KellyDVance]

@@A-WallfromAL which we all know that no one can tell by looking at it.

[@Chuck-se5hh]

It's important to note that the American Civil War is a pivotal American historical event and that one of its main causes was the issue of slavery. The pro-slavery people (the 'South') held the view that the God of the Bible holds and they were defeated by the 'North' (the people who felt that slavery was revolting and ant-human and disgusting and evil). Since that Civil War the USA has unanimously held the view that the decision to abolish slavery was a good one; this is a proper and deserved stinging slap in the face against Yawheh, the God of the Bible, and a good example of where ordinary human beings were wiser and morally far better than the God Yawheh of the Bible. Yawheh God of the Bible has no shame and evidently has a major moral flaw - something which the Bible vehemently denies.

[@amy_pieterse]

Hearing other christians defend slavery really fast tracked my deconstruction. Amongst other things.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

no doubt! its insane to me.

[@robertjimenez5984]

All Frank needed to say in this group was; there is no slavery in the bible and every one will applaud the same. Their not there to hear reality, they are there to feed there belief.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Probabaly right for most of them

[@SmartAss4123]

You're probably right. Religion put into that context sounds like a cult. But it's hard to convince people they've been lied to. It becomes almost like a intergral part of their home in a way. They cant give it up because to accept they've been lied to is probably worse to them

[@adamrspears1981]

My favorite Christian justification of slavery: "Well, all the nations were involved in slavery back in those days." (In other words, "If all the nations are involved in something, its ok.") My response: "What are your thoughts on rape, or murder, or molestation, or lying, or stealing.......? Are any of these acts ever justified? ....Because these acts happen every day with EVERY nation across the globe!"

[@jjamiex]

Well, the other nations were involved in idolatry, too. Isn't that kind of the whole point of the Mosaic law... that the Israelites don't do what everyone else does?

[@jetskiwillywilly7970]

Your a slave right now...slave to porn, slave to media...etc. Don't pay your taxes and see what happens. Your a slave right now...yet you don't get up and leave. Why? remember...you're a slave...so why don't you leave?

[@wilkimist]

Glad I'm not the only one with that opinion of Paul Copan's book, Thom Stark has a book "God is a moral compromiser" as a response. Randall Rauser critized Stark for his tone, but after reading Copan it was deserved.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Oh wow! Ordering right now! Thanks for the rec

[@williamwatson4354]

No sooner does Exodus reveal the 10 Commandments, then in Chapter 21 the first law concerns slavery. Funny that.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

or the immediate instruction for genocide right after do not kill. the Irony in one book is insane!

[@Moment-14]

TRUST ME... YOUR VIDEOS/ IDEAS WILL BE SPREADING EXPONENTIALLY... I know you have already experienced this growth to get here.... Your communication, references and logical simplicity is, IMHO, clearer and more thorough than Hitch, Dawkins etc... Prepare yourself .....to be sought after... Thank you my fellow intelligent primate!!!! Peter

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Insanely generous. Thanks for the love.

[@Moment-14]

You're welcome! You deserve the love! Just remember me when you're mainstream hehe! Peter

[@nicolasandre9886]

I guess when the bible says 'you may buy your slaves from the nations around you', it must really mean 'you may politely ask your neighbor who owes you money to come over and mow your lawn, then you can both enjoy a cup of tea and be best buds forever'. I think I'm beginning to understand how Frank Turek's bible filter works!

[@PrometheanRising]

I'm not sure whether the answer to this question really matters to my point, but did the Jews exiting Egypt in Exodus already have slaves, or did they just immediately start enslaving people as soon as they got away? You'd think the giant pillar of fire would have had an opportune moment to mention 'you know how you didn't like your time in Egypt? Well don't do that to other people!' Of course, the Exodus likely never happened. So maybe that's why Yahweh never mentioned it.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

from the story, they would not have had slaves, they went and started buying them up immediately after, with the gold they stole from egypt most likely (again if the story were true). yes its insane!

[@sree18697]

If a Christian try to reject Old testament and try to escape from slavery topic here is the answer to that from new testament. JESUS considered the entire Old Testament to be the written Word of God. (Mathew. 5:17),“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.. John 5:39-40) - And he told the Jews, “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life” Luke 24:26-27) - Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. here Jesus explaining law of the prophets to people.

[@9432515]

Only those with poor understanding of their text avoid this subject. God isn’t the slave master but the Redeemer…of Gentiles. Redemption is buyback from DEBT, as Deut15 says. These were loans. Possession by debt contract not possession by ownership. It’s not like we can’t understand this. It’s a deliberate twist by the desperate trying to sell a book or gain an audience of fellow idiots

[@richardb7495]

Thank you so so much for this well done sir !!❤

[@MindShift-Brandon]

My pleasure. This issue was one if the biggest ones for me and im happy to share as much as i can.

[@MarcWhitaker]

When making excuses for slavery, Christians talk as if individuals in the past didn’t matter, only the progression of humanity matters. Those millions who were born into slavery and died in slavery, as had their parents and as did their children aren’t considered at all. Jump forward to the here and now and it’s all about the individual having free will, a personal relationship with God, and his own personal path to an eternal reward.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Exactly. I hate it so much. Why is it so hard to empathize

[@ReasonQuest]

It's a good thing that a person can only give ONE "thumbs up" per video, or I would have broken my remote.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha!! Thanks, man!

[@avi8r66]

When I talk to theists and the morality topic comes up I like to see how they will defend the slavery. And they always do. And once they do you can see the confidence drain from them, they know they are now arguing in favor of slavery and it bothers them (usually).

[@theresemalmberg955]

Here's another New Testament verse that you didn't mention but which I find horrifying because it is allegedly from the mouth of Jesus himself. Luke 12:47-48. "The servant (slave) who knows what his master wants him to do, but does not get himself ready and do it, will be punished with a heavy whipping. But the servant who does not know what his master wants, and yet does something for which he deserves a whipping, will be punished with a light whipping." So whipping one's slaves/servants/employees is all right with the Lord? I mean this is said so matter-of-factly in Luke's Gospel that most people don't even notice it. The morality of whipping someone, whether it is heavy or light, isn't even questioned, not by Jesus, nor by his listeners. Think about it. Jesus never once says you should not whip another person who is subordinate to you. And please--don't say it was part of the culture of his time. Divorce was also part of the culture of his time but he was pretty clear about that not being an option.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

You know its an issue when theres so many verses that support slavery that i leave some out.

[@gusgrizzel8397]

Another great video, thank you!

[@billguthrie2218]

Frank Turek infuriates me. I despise him more than any other apologist. He seems to be the most intellectually dishonest of them all. I love to see youtubers dismantle him. Thanks for doing so.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thanks Bill. I really was shocked by his blatant dismissal of the two verses following his first point. I knew he was garbage after his book but still to watch someone who you know knows better be so deceitful was just astonishing to me.

[@billguthrie2218]

@@MindShift-Brandon He plays such dishonest semantic games. The worst. I can't make up my mind if he is a dishonest liar or just totally brainwashed. How can anyone be that stupid and blind and leading so many people astray? Such a huge blind spot if that is the case. Borderline brain damage. I often make the comment..."This is a brain destroyed by the Jesus virus".

[@nickbrasing8786]

Frank is there to sell books, wrapped in the warm blanket of spreading the Word. Truth and honesty be damned. Tell Christians these arguments from the evil atheists are just wrong. Nothing to see here. Rest easy in your faith, and hope that you never run into one on your own because I will not have prepared you to address the real issues. It's reprehensible. We need to bring back the Lying for Jesus Award. Frank would be in the Hall of Fame.

[@alejandrojoselizano]

Me too, I hate Frank Turek.

[@billguthrie2218]

@@alejandrojoselizanoIn their debates, Hitchens dismantled the moron and exposed him for the utter fool he is. Turek is just to dumb to realize how badly he was obliterated.

[@ToddJSpencer]

What do you say about teachers who swerve around it by saying "the bible wasn't written TO us, but was written FOR us"? Those that say we need to draw principles from passages like these?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Its just a lame excuse. God goes out of his way to say over 630 thy shall nots. If he thought slavery was wrong he would have said so. But instead he gave permission

[@ToddJSpencer]

@@MindShift-Brandon My response had been that so God thought slavery was okay back then, but not now?? Like you I think that's rationalizing. Also, I can't see anything analogous when I read these passages. Thanks.

[@commandosolo1266]

I'm shocked that you didn't cover Ephesians. "Slaves, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ, not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening, knowing that your Master also is in heaven, neither is there respect of persons with him." Ephesians 6:5-9 This is the Bible specifically accepting and endorsing slavery. Ephesians is late new Testament, supposedly the Apostle Paul himself but more likely a later author. This letter to the Ephesians is accepted as canonical by the Roman Catholics, the Protestants, Greek Orthodox, Coptic, you name it. To be fair, we need to credit pioneering reformers like Patricius ("St. Patrick") who was enslaved and sought to liberate slaves, and Gregory of Nyssa who openly opposed slavery some four centuries later. Nonetheless, the Bible specifically accepts slavery as normal and right, and therefore cannot be the infallible Word of the Creator and final arbiter of morality and ethics.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

lol, you know its a problem, when the bible has so many verses endorsing slavery, that i was able to forget one. Thank you for adding this is in!

[@commandosolo1266]

A pleasure, @@MindShift-Brandon. If I might suggest a useful topic? I have not been able to find any specific Bible verse forbidding contraception or induced miscarriage. I don't believe it exists, because if it did, the American pro-life movement would shout it at us until we had it memorized. Meanwhile, the Romans governing Judea made use of a contraceptive and abortifacient named Silphium. I think you'll find the Wikipedia article on that ancient plant worth your time.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

thanks for the rec, I will look into it forsure. I do have a video already out on abortion according to the bible in response to IP.

[@truvy_5544]

What’s messed up is, I wonder what the stories that was cut from the Bible Was justifying 🤦🏽‍♀️if the book itself justified sexist, ableism, discrimination, and also mistreating animals and children. I agree when I read the short stories that was in the Bible like Ruth, it just made me feel disgusted of god and the mistreatment of ppl all because they didn’t have faith or not chosen ppl

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yes exactly

[@theboombody]

I'm reading the biography of Frederick Douglass now. About halfway through it. He seemed to have faith that he could escape even when evidence implied he couldn't. He believed in the divine also.

[@cygnusustus]

Frederick Douglass had evidence that escape was possible.

[@theboombody]

@@cygnusustus Would he have been wrong to have faith if he didn't have such evidence?

[@themadmystic1688]

These are the types of people who want slavery to come back as is.

[@JesseDriftwood]

I’d be really interested in your take on what’s commonly referred to as progressive revelation.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

You'll be even more disgusted when you find out what was *really* going on between Paul and Onesimus, and Philemon and Onesimus, and what Paul expected from Philemon *and* Onesimus in the future. There's a paper out that relates Paul's language about Onesimus' "usefulness" and sexual slavery in ancient Rome. It's authored by one Marchal and it's titled, "The Sexual Use of Slaves and Philemon", p. 738 in the Journal of Biblical Literature vol. 130 no. 4 (2011). When I read it I was totally disgusted because here we have this Super Apostle (dig intended) who unequivocally condemned homosexuality especially in Romans chapter 1 where he even condemns the mere same-sex attraction at the core of it all when it's triggered, taking advantage of somebody else's slave! And I thought, _What a scumbag!"_

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Wow! Where can i read/learn more about this. Was it just that one source you listed or do you know of others?

[@richardb7495]

😮😮😮😮 wwoooooowwwwwwww 😡🤬😡🤬😡

[@ratamacue0320]

I'm not familiar with this topic, but I'd suggest anyone looking into it check on the authorship of whatever Epistles they look at. Since some of the letters traditionally attributed to Paul are now thought to be probably or possibly anonymous or forgeries, it may not be hypocrisy from Paul himself. (These allegations would still be immoral if true, just not necessarily hypocritical.)

[@ButtercupBerry1234]

another great video....thanks for all your effort 🙂

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Thank you!

[@17...20]

✨✨sips tea...✨✨

[@james0805]

Good video. I had a hard time hearing you. Could you please get closer to the 🎤 mic, in the future?😊

[@wilkimist]

On Deep Drinks channel there is a panel on slavery, I think it was Kipp Davis that mentioned the model set up in Gen 2 is of humans to be God's slaves.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

So much to check out! Thanks for letting me know. And what a unique angle.

[@wilkimist]

@@MindShift-Brandon they did a slavery panel twice. Of course they have me more resources to check out like "Slavery in Early Christianity" by Jennifer Glancy.

[@XRamenmaX]

I have a question for you, have you ever looked/reserved at the description of what Jesus said about false prophets and Paul? There is a very interesting correlation there.

[@ambarlostinthewoods3080]

This was the thing, the first thing that really set me up to start thinking seriously about what i believed, today i can say proudly i am an atheist and i dont have to make horrible excuses to support things that otherwhise i wouldn't ever even to think in justifying, thanks for the video Brandon. I am a native Spanish speaker, i eventually wanna make a channel in spanish similar to yours adressing those things that i really think are disgusting about this book, your videos are amazing sources and i am learning so much with then, i hope i can be as informative and amazing as you are to the Spanish speaking public, there is not so much content like this in spanish, there is , but no so much, even less coming from my country, Dominican Republic , here 98% of people believe in a god and i think 93% are in a religion of some sort, obviously a christian mayority, so it is going to be a big challenge for me to come forward with this ideas, but i hope i can do a good work as it is yours, thanks for the good content, i think ive seen all of your videos except some of the bible studies one, im gonna catch up soon!! So I'm waiting for your new videos every week like a little kid for his cartoons😂

[@MindShift-Brandon]

So very kind! That will be amazing when you get going, reach out if i can help when the time comes!

[@dude6801]

Love it, but yet to turn down the volume next time, it’s hard to hear you and comprehend what you are saying. Thanks and keep this up.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Appreciate the feedback and thank you!

[@Bugsy0333]

They have www.youtube.com/@reasoningthroughthebible

[@haze7972]

I brought up the woman getting taken and then forced to marry the dude who just killed her family to my very Christian brother, and he talked about how it was actually a protection for the woman bc the man would be responsible for her, and if he didn’t take her in she’d suffer a worse fate. So progressive, I’ll rape you so that no one else will rape you! I responded that a god as powerful as the Christian god purports to be should be able to come up with a better solution, to which I got that standard ‘God works with people where they’re at.’

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ugggg so gross

[@Canaanitebabyeater]

If you wanna add something on top of that, the month of mourning is meant to see if the woman is on her period.

[@arx3516]

The only ethic context that i can think of that can justify slavery is the "Vae Victis" one, where might makes right, and everything is allowed as long as you are strong enough to get away with it.

[@ilmt]

The greatest evil about the Bible is the verse numbering system. It gives off the vibe that those verses are separate entities. It allows for easy skips of context or other parts. It discourages the ordinary person to look further (there's no need, I was given the exact passage to verify). It gives off the notion that this is a list of separate rules even though it often isn't. Without it it would be so much harder to cherry pick favorable verses. It would force the oridnary reader to at least skim through the text before they would got to the right passage and they would have higher chance to at least glance at parts before and after.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

fantastic point. I covered this in a bit of detail in another video, I think it was my Counting On Confusion video.

[@SpartaSanks]

Thank you.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

My pleasure. Thanks for watching!

[@VasudevSubramaniam]

It is laughable to me how Frank can lie to an audience and the audience will take him seriously.

[@peterimade003]

Nice video, I'm surprised you didn't mention 1 Peter 2:18 - "Servants be subject to your masters with all fear, not only the good but the froward " a very good verse to nullify the 1 timothy 1: 10 that said slavers aka men stealers. Which might actually be a verse against stealing slaves not slavery or slavers itself.

[@9432515]

Debt servants. Gentiles took out loans (Deut15.6) and had to pay it back no matter how long (treat the Gentiles with rigour (strictness..no leniency over debt whatsoever as it painted a pic on sin debt Christ would pay off)) Hebrews had redemption by covenant, Gentiles had to pay off their debt on their own..UNLESS they too converted in (deut29.10-15)..which is the entire point.

[@peterimade003]

@@9432515 lies, u ignored leviticus and the beating of slaves, lack of intellectual honesty

[@peterimade003]

@@9432515 lies, you ignored verses on his to beat slaves ni?

[@soniachambers6460]

The God of domestic violence....who gives a law a male slave owner can beat his female slave with a rod, so long as he doesn't kill her... Imagine suffering dv as a Christian and reading this . .😢

[@12th_C]

As someone who regularly reads The Bible cover to cover i am well aware of these passages. Not here to justify slavery of any kind or the atrocities that horrible people have committed in the name of Christianity. Thank you for sharing your frustration. i submit that it is possible to still have faith even if you have questions. i think the real question is if you believe slavery is wrong (which i do too) what are you doing about the slavery that exists now. Fighting to end the current oppression of those who can’t defend themselves is the moral high ground.

[@jessegreenan]

25:01....that's just fucking wrong. And that book was holy and lawful?

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Its just truly insane.

[@55Quirll]

Here is a loophole on how to make a Hebrew slave a slave forever. Exodus 21:1-6 “When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing… But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.” I wonder what Frank would say about this? Very sad. Even worse is when the father sells his daughter as a sex slave. I enjoy watching your videos and how much I learn from them. Thank you for these. Take care and may you always be happy.

[@luva_carnincatsnmusic]

And the context when the "slave" does that is if he has taken a wife and has children while he was a slave; his wife and slave belong to the master forever whereas the slave can leave after the required time. But if he loves his family, that's when he can stay a slave forever. Really messed up.

[@55Quirll]

@@luva_carnincatsnmusic Yes it is and very sad.

[@chrisbyrne17]

This is a vid I want to make so bad this is such an important thing thank you🎉 also ur vids are so fucking watchable I love arguing slavery in the Bible

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Ha, so fucking watchable might be my new favorite compliment! Thank you, brother!

[@chrisbyrne17]

@@MindShift-Brandon your welcome I can’t wait to work with you on a few videos

[@MindShift-Brandon]

For sure

[@spiritualsoul387]

The excuse for the whole 'Free will" bs is OD free will is me telling my friend he can do whatever he wants at my club house without any consequences. Yet gods free will has severe brutal consequences 😅

[@axer3515]

This is an old discussion that has been covered over and over again. However it hangs around because Christians keep trying to rationalize it. A question I asked while in CCD was why is " thall shall not own another human."? That was when I was in 6th grade.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Right its extremely simple, just so sad we have to keep contending with this.

[@loretomazzola403]

Super job Mr!

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Many thanks!

[@ohrobert65]

There is no ancient Hebrew word for "servant." Every example of "servant" in the old testiment actually says "slave".

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Yup, slave is slave is slave is slave. I am fed up with all the excuses around it. The bible is clear about it, why cant christians be?

[@jasonb7870]

Ok l aready seen this one didn't notice it was a new channel very good video points

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Hey you made it! Yes im slowly brining my original 10 over every Thursday but nee content every tuesday and sunday and some on satturday

[@jasonb7870]

@@MindShift-Brandon ok

[@Clogmonger]

Indentured servitude is just slavery with a bullshit contract 😂

[@misterlau5246]

Hmm what does mariam mother of Ieshua said when "Ave Maria gratia plena dominus tecum".. 🤔 She accepted the will of her dominus "he aquí la esclava del Señor"

[@TheMouse254]

I am an African, I cannot watch a movie on slavery as they are grotesque. I cannot stomach it! I do not understand how someone can say slavery was not too bad, or it was done for a good reason. It is crazy! God was clear Israelites should not treat fellow Israelites as slaves...that is racism right there. I really do not have to go to a literature class to interprate this; it is in black and white... Why would an all knowing God not say owing another human is wrong. Plain and simple. Remember how Jesus showed people to pay taxes? He did not beat about the bush. He was clear pay taxes. It would be easy to say, Do Not Enslave Another! Thou shall not own a slave...🤦🏽‍♂️

[@KeeperOfSecrets-42069]

Not even. An all loving god wouldn’t allow slavery. But there is no such god.

[@KeeperOfSecrets-42069]

Not even. An all loving god wouldn’t allow slavery. But there is no such god.

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

Chattel slavery was never practised by the Israelites. Slavery in the Bible as practised by the Israelites included indentured Hebrew servants, child sacrificing war captives and the actual slaves whom the Israelites bought from foreign nations, the reasons for which I shall now explain: Imagine you were a Jew in Old Testament times who was rich and needed hands to work for you and the nation next to you were wicked enough to get their own people and sell them into slavery, which wasn't uncommon for the Gentile nations surrounding the Israelites at the time. You wouldn't want to save at least the number of those you could from landing in possibly terrible masters? Flogging was to be done only when a slave was caught slacking off, stealing or being aggressive. Slaves were viewed in the same way as children back then (and I'm using the term 'same' rather loosely as it's an analogy and they weren't actually seen as children) that ought to corrected with rods (which aren't big, heavy sticks if that is what you were thinking) when they misbehaved in accordance to the misdemeanour, 'cause think about it, what else should they have done to them? Send them back to the people who sold them or let them roam in their country? (Keep in mind that they were foreigners and it would be dangerous to just let foreigners roam free in your country in such numbers).Deut.23:15-16; 24:14-15; 24:17-22 all give instructions on how foreigners whether slave, servant or free man were to be treated. Beating slaves with rods (which is an old word for cane) was allowed because their masters provided everything for them just as they would their children making them in the position of parents to the slaves, meaning that even when correcting wrong behaviour it had to done to the slave as they would do to their own child (and this is under the presumption that they are a good parent) and also when the slave had deliberately erred in some way such as stealing or dereliction of duty. Owning slaves was legitimised in Israel for two reasons: There was a need for sufficient labour and the other nations were exceedingly wicked meaning a kind, loving people were needed to liberate as many of them as possible which would explain why they even sold their own people while Deut.24:7 forbade Israelites from selling each other but it didn't permit selling Gentiles, check the earlier Bible portions. "Why didn't God just abolish slavery there and then?" First, the Israelites never practised chattel slavery and if one particular evil were to be ended He would have to end all others too, including lying. (Yes, it is an evil if you didn't know as good and evil vary in intensity just like shades of white and black). Since all humans have or will lie in future then all of us would be destroyed including babies as prevention is better than cure. "Then why were we made anyway if this would all happen?" It is because God is love and He desires to love and be loved which explains the creation of the universe and us humans. It was because of our abuse of His love through the misuse of free will that humanity is in this current state of declining morals.

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

Lying is wrong yes, but if it's to save an innocent person's life like with Rahab and the Hebrew spies then is it still wrong at that point in the context in which it is used? Sometimes things that would normally be bad can infact be good such as killing in self defense which differs from killing out of malice and if you've gotten my previous response to you on slavery and read in the proper historical context you'll see that infact what the Israelites did differed from what the Americans did. As the beating with rods, I gave an incomplete explanation on it so I'll do that now: Just as no one would take away someone's child even if they were cruel to them, no one could take away your slave even if you were cruel to them but if they were able to run away then they would be free from the harshness. "So that's how the God you serve acts and the book you believe in teaches?" Laws are made not for good actions but bad ones to make sure people do not exceed their boundaries. It's morally wrong to insult or speak ill of people, but it only becomes a crime when it's slander. Moses knew there would be people seeking to do as they please which is why those laws were made at all.

[@TheEdBoys-j7m]

Lying is wrong yes, but if it's to save an innocent person's life like with Rahab and the Hebrew spies then is it still wrong at that point in the context in which it is used? Sometimes things that would normally be bad can infact be good such as killing in self defense which differs from killing out of malice and if you've gotten my previous response to you on slavery and read in the proper historical context you'll see that infact what the Israelites did differed from what the Americans did. As the beating with rods, I gave an incomplete explanation on it so I'll do that now: Just as no one would take away someone's child even if they were cruel to them, no one could take away your slave even if you were cruel to them but if they were able to run away then they would be free from the harshness. "So that's how the God you serve acts and the book you believe in teaches?" Laws are made not for good actions but bad ones to make sure people do not exceed their boundaries. It's morally wrong to insult or speak ill of people, but it only becomes a crime when it's slander. Moses knew there would be people seeking to do as they please which is why those laws were made at all.

[@jerkytoo8184]

Same here. I knew about all the ugly stuff in the OT and I presumed that there must be more to it. There must be something that I'm missing that squares everything away. I've heard the very same arguments from Christian apologists saying that the Bible merely acknowledges the existence of slavery but didn't necessarily condone it and definitely didn't advocate for it.

[@strangementalitypaperYT]

Slavery is actually 100% legal in the US as punishment for a crime.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

Well thats insane. Ill have to look into that but i assume its wither a remnant law that has never been changed but is not enforced or theres some semantics going on. Either way, still doesn’t excuse good ol god from ordering it lol.

[@strangementalitypaperYT]

@@MindShift-Brandon It’s stated explicitly in the 13th Amendment that “Neither slavery nor indentured servitude, except as punishment for a crime where the party shall be duly convicted, shall exist in the United States or it’s jurisdictions.” Then when you take into account to prison population’s demographics, you really can’t argue that prisons are a means to keep Africans enslaved.

[@Wolf-ln1ml]

@@strangementalitypaperYT As far as I can tell (looking across the pond), the bigger problem is the for-profit prison system in the USA. Yes, in practice, a lot of laws and court rulings and such are racist, especially against darker-skinned people, and that should absolutely be fixed - a couple of decades ago preferrably -, but the for-profit system adds a whole other level of motivation for sending people to prison. Get rid of _that,_ focus on rehabilitation (and, in case of drug addicts, treatment), and everybody wins (well, except for the "mah lizard brain demands vengeance, so f*ck everything and everyone else" crowd) - the black community disproportionately more exactly_because_ there are so many suffering in prisons now.

[@gabbysthoughts4745]

You should respond to Brian Holdsworth video on slavery.

[@MindShift-Brandon]

I will look it up!