Bicycle Engineering in 2023 - Peak Torque Podcast Ep1

[@ChinaCycling]

All views expressed are my own personal opinions. All people / companies / events mentioned are fictional. Any relation to real world entities is purely coincidental. 🤣Also, I made a couple of mistakes in my answers. The price of T800 should have been 30mb and T1100 should have been 600rmb. I'm sure I had some other brain farts too.. but... it was a fun podcast! Thanks for having me Peaky boy!

[@lincolnlu9869]

Just bought some handlebars from Panda podium. Hoping you do well for a long time. My only problem with Chinese brands is how slow it goes from payment to getting the product out the door to shipping. I think people in the West are used to ordering something and having it get shipped within a day or two. Having to wait days, weeks, or even months just to start shipping something needs to be addressed.

[@olo398]

so after 20 yrs the toray thing is still the same aye? wonder where the next great innovations will come from then. thanks joe. appreciate you.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@lincolnlu9869I live in the US and the Philippines. Shipping to Asia is significantly worse than the other way around. I've waited +6 weeks for things I've shipped to myself😂10-20 days is typical the other way around

[@BARTHEZ42]

About using EPS by Factor I belive that guy said that they were first and now everybody are doing this.

[@travispyle2905]

Any holiday sales for Pandapodium? I'm guessing I keep looking in the wrong spot if there are.

[@PeakTorque]

Light hearted chat. All the chapters in description. Safe drive home for Christmas and turn the screen off.

[@mosgrovecleancutkid681]

good work! I occasionally watch the Stick to football 'podcast' .. Its edited with a montage right at the start with a few choice highlights to pique viewers interest.. As an editing device maybe it works better with visuals but i could definitely see a few seconds of your 'sitting on the shitter bit' working well.. among others. Cheers ! P.S are you releasing a Merry Mega Mix this Christmas? 😁

[@callumph]

That free hub sound tangent/rant made me laugh so much

[@1Hanginon]

With so many variables - i.e., your back, cadence vs. aero, leg acceleration, etc., did you ever settle on a crank length for your TT bike??

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

You are dead right I do tend to sook too much about brand stuff, but I still feel there is a narrative worth following up about how sh*t (and wasteful) the bike industry is at marketing. Just like poorly engineered hub gets you fired up, when I hear a brand drops $40k on some former pro 'influencer' because he's mates with the guy in sales .. it gets me going. I know it comes off as jealousy, so that's on me to improve the way I have that discussion. ps. more PT pods!

[@alexcavill1986]

Please make this a thing, ideally on the podcast players so we don’t have to have KZbin on while doing jobs/riding

[@PeakTorque]

Am getting this onto Spotify as we speak

[@simonnaylor9695]

And Google podcasts if you can.

[@ThePalsta]

@@PeakTorque I came here to ask this very thing. I can't find it on Spotify yet, could you add a link to the description please?

[@markharrison6120]

Love watching PT getting triggered on a technical point (the reality of being an engineer in an increasingly dim world) fully empathize.

[@PeakTorque]

😂

[@MarcelWiersma92]

Respect for the preparation Alex! (eg reading Canyon reports). Your podcast is not just giving an opinion, it is interpretation and market knowledge combined with your opinion. That is why it is much more informative than many other videos and podcasts. Joe knows marketing and KZbin, that's obvious. And I love his inside knowledge of the Chinese market. Content on social media is always changing and Joe has a clear vision of what is happening. His examples about micro influencers and KZbin's algorithm are spot on. Next: KZbin long format FTW. I think you can have your place in this crowded cycling podcast scene too!

[@jonnythelegs2597]

Yeah, I'd like a more engineering side of things podcast. I'm a kit junkie as I'm sure a lot of others here are and whilst I like the likes of the Nero / Cade shows i don't feel like I've actually come away from listening to them having learnt anything new other than race updates, new sponsorship deals and the usual press releases that are already all over the Internet. Its just the news with a few opinions thrown in. I love the actual bikes I love working on them I love eeking what ever performance I gains I can from them be it aero, suspension mods, rolling and mechanical drag anything that surrounds making bikes faster without resorting to recumbent which I also like but see as a totally different area of cycling a great one but still a different one.

[@annag5458]

PT thank you! Great conversation, great wide ranging discussion, width engineering and market coverage. It was just about long enough to listen to while cleaning my bike's drive chain!

[@PeakTorque]

Our pleasure!

[@TobiMcTobeface]

32:00 regarding modulation; 1, the brake force of disc brakes is close to the hub and 2, not subject to conditional changes that rim brakes are greatly affected by, as well as the material the rim in manufactured from. So point 1, I've always considered that better modulation is achieved on disc brakes through the applying overall higher force at slower speeds due to being close to the centre of the wheel and countered by the rotational mass of the wheel. The overall higher forces on a disc brake set up means that the variants in forces that there will be are a less percentage of the overall force than on rim brakes, despite the lever throw differences that may, or may not, be in rim brake's favour. Point 2, any contaminants on the rim surface will exacerbate brake force efficacy through inconsistent surface friction and being at the outside edge therefore being more susceptible to frictional changes. But what do I know I spend my evenings scrubbing neck sweat from my blue-collared shirts

[@utube7930]

Unbiased engineering and science knowledge. Its a win-win for honest brands and consumers. This is a podcast i'd subscribe to

[@gawa62]

Excellent podcast PT.I got a pair of rim brake prime wheels when that sale was on £275 and went to £160, a couple of days later £100!!!.I got them and within a couple of days low stock count and jumped back up to £275.

[@SherazChoudhary]

You both are insightful, knowledgeable and authentic. We need more of this! I have followed you both for years so to me this is a no brainier must watch. 😀 I would watch a weekly hour long show with you both. Maybe Hambini, Dylan, Silica, Dan Bigham, ect as guests. I HATE shorts and obsessively avoid any short format videos!!! Make this happen gents and I will be here.

[@horststorkebaum6475]

Enjoyed it very much. Keep them coming if your time allows.

[@carlostafich5980]

Would love to continue watching this type of content from both. I support all podcasters and youtubers out there who are putting out cycling content, whether it's smart content like yours or just for fun. We all win. We viewers have it so much better than when it was just GCN. On a separate note, I wish there were more companies making nice aluminum bikes. A lot of people are pissed off with the prices on current bikes and the "good value" options are often shit carbon and components and you end up paying tons to make it what you want with upgrades. Finally, I'll start purchasing stuff from Panda Podium. Thanks!

[@galenkehler]

Hey Joe, modulation is the ability to feel and adjust the braking force. Rim brakes use a rubber pad and flexible cables/housing, so it can never have the ability to modulate as a disc because of the flex and squish in the system.

[@Rifleman21June]

I don't normally comment but I would be really happy to see/hear more of this! Very interesting and informative chat!

[@stevenrobinson5690]

Great vid, more of this in 2024!

[@IPlodAllDay]

More please! The basics of a good podcast for me is a couple of people chatting about what they love and you guys nailed it. Long form KZbin at it's best 😄

[@borano2031]

Super start for, I hope, more pods coming!! Thanks PT and Joe, Happy Xmas and a prosperous 2024 to all!! Rgr

[@hellodisdat]

I came back to watch this again. so good, funny and really great that its so casual and laid back. more please

[@HarishChouhan]

Always nice to hear Joe’s opinions

[@morganconey4814]

Another reason pro riders ran aluminium bars was back in rim brake days it was a way to add weight to a bike to get it up to 6.8kg.

[@LAShooters1]

Congrats on you first podcast, very interesting and glad to see you doing podcasts.

[@CatManDoSocial]

Very nice. I watched all the way to the end and I enjoyed it. I say definitely do another. I think if you do what you normally do, your audience will like it, no matter how long the format.

[@rotecrl9719]

Keep the edge and honesty as much as possible! Where do we as enthusiasts (fellow mechanical engineer here, though automotive) get proper technical and market info? Cheers and all the best into 2024!

[@redkeyspoke]

Stayed to the end. Could have used this on my long drive yesterday when I couldn't find anything longer than 10 minutes worth listening to. Joe is brilliant, you're alright 😂 cheers mate!

[@chrstphrrb1449]

Loved it! Please make it more frequent

[@TomLeeCycling]

1:46:59 guess I'm one of the mad ones. Enjoyed this pod, and the one you did with Joe and Hambini a while back. Would definitely tune in if this becomes a regular series.

[@gunarstreikals2099]

Watched this just because had 2 hour session on a bike trainer. In audio format definitely would be much easier to digest ) good luck and thank you for a discussion)

[@PeakTorque]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@condorito93swe]

Love this format for you guys, I’d definitely love a frequent podcast with tech focus in the bike industry!

[@dimagrab3132]

Thank you guys! Make this a thing, more podcasts plz! 🖤

[@liamgaul]

bang on the money. flared drops came to race exactly to take advantage of this loophole. Maybe the riders watched this video

[@pasghettiboy1859]

Love it, definitely a place for your pod on KZbin

[@leegregory5597]

Keep them coming, you should do one with Dylan focussed on Gravel. I think it it will start gaining more traction in the uk, I can only speak for myself but I think roads are just so unsafe right now. Too many cars and too many crap drivers.

[@beneyckmans20]

Bambini must be happy with his 3x pay raise at Canyon!

[@NeonGrayEdits]

I just listened to the whole episode (audio only) on Spotify. It was great I would listen to more of them 😊.

[@maximkrivov]

Great podcast thanks! Just got ill so had plenty time to listen. I think will be difficult to sustain regular content but as a surprise one off when ever you can/feel like could work. Agree with you that forced content leaves an unpleasant taste and content of choice hopefully can stage a comeback in 2024.

[@riazpatel5296]

Your format will always be niche, and will always be watched or listened to by like minded people looking for information while multitasking life, family, play and jobs! Personally I use these types of Podcast/long form content while maintaining my Bikes and rc models or while riding to not waste that time later on content consumption. How many of us enjoy information vs stories is unfortunately the core issue. I also have few friends and used to be an engineer so my opinion means very little to those who like fictional content.

[@MP48]

great pod cast. Keep it going. The Nero show has its place, you and Hambini are the other bookend. Chris and Jessy bring the emotive connection to cycling, you bring the hard technical aspects whci I enjoy because I understand the technical stuff deeply

[@Squizzy05]

Shortages could be Shimano? Trying to get GRXDI2 group sets in Australia complete currently is near impossible and if you can find it it costs more than the new Ultegra 12 speed. This is not limited to Canyon though.

[@TracKnGravelDeWd]

I was wondering why i had so many commercials, and you fuys said at the end lut was like a free trial version.... Commercial like every 6-7 minutes... Was mind numbing, but a good podcast

[@8rk]

I have switched to discs as well this year. I absolutely agree with Joe on modulation though. Also people talk about discs having better "feel" Lever - solid metal wire - calipers a mechanical connection versus Lever - liquid - calipers There's no way you're feeling disc brakes more than rim brakes.

[@Rossingiol]

New to hydraulics, eh?

[@8rk]

@@Rossingiol wouldn’t say new to hydraulics as i’ve raced motorcycles for a decade. There’s a lot more feedback on rim brakes than disc brakes. disc brakes are stronger but little more vague. you’re not gonna argue solid objects transfer vibrations and feel better than a liquid with me are you?

[@rgfrobotics]

that solid metal wire is probably more elastic than brake fluid in a hydraulic line.

[@8rk]

@@rgfroboticsYeah, no.

[@rgfrobotics]

@@8rk lol, you better start taking introduction to physics courses.

[@ynie1]

Glad to know that Peak Torque is finally involved in the product development cycle. It does seem like he's gotten more understanding of the business side of things as well.

[@michaelvosseller1233]

Awesome show. Please continue making a podcast version

[@DavidWalker-xz4jb]

I enjoyed this. I say just make an episode when you feel like you have enough to talk about. FYI on the Shimano recall in the US. My local shop told me they'll take back and replace any crankset that is sent in. I had two 2018 DA cranksets. Sent both back. Will be replaced with the new versions. One was a Stages. Apparently Shimano will send me a check for $350 and Stages will install a new PM for that amount.

[@PHHE1]

"they gave all the janitors pay rises" may not be off too far as inside canyon there was quite a bit of fighting about payment and unionizing this year. And here in Germany, that's a serious thing..

[@ThePaulRobertDavis]

I know with campag hoods, the levers are curved to match the bend of the drops. I ride with my levers in a bit. If I tilt them in more, I’d have to loosen the clamping screws because the radius of the levers becomes too tight for the bars. Effectively there’s two sharp points of contact at the top and base of the lever and unequal pressure on the actual clamp. I’m not sure if this is just how campagnolo levers are designed, but it definitely seems like it would be dangerous to ride with the levers turned in that extreme with the bolts clamped to spec and I don’t hear anyone acknowledging this.

[@Flexb777]

Good Video Boys…….Peak Torque and Panda Joe always informative as usual…….Loved It…..❤

[@ThePalsta]

Made it to the end - probably got a foot in both camps to be honest! Would love to have this as a regular podcast. I've got a 2 hour daily commute, so engaging podcasts are my go-to listen in the car.

[@tombladon8064]

In terms of cycling KZbin I’ve really gone off of the Cade media stuff, I used to watched for the vlogging and videography, now it just feels like a channel showing you different variants of cheap bikes and some scott bikes equipped with sram. Cycling tattooist has done some really good stuff this last year though.

[@timtaylor9590]

if you have weak hands disc brakes are good, i find it very easy to lock up my rim brakes and can control panic skids relatively easy. not sure why i would ever use disc on road

[@StavrosAvramidis42]

On the topic of measuing efficiency. There is the corebody sensor that uses a heatflux to measure internal body temp + (not availlable to the public yet) can do calorimetry (decent enogh for the norwegian tri team). I also guess someone could use a NIRS to measure muscle's SmO2

[@steva_nolimits]

what happened with podcast with Hambini?

[@Jamesthebikeguy]

I enjoyed this video podcast immensely. I hope you do more!

[@PeakTorque]

We will!

[@Zozas_The_Cyclist]

Amazing podcast! Please keep it going. I really enjoyed all the topics and you guys are gone real deal about cycling industry! Cheers. Happy Christmas and votes for a happy new year

[@Mikeatcitycycle]

Best long form content so far. Markedly more enjoyable and relatable than the Nero Show, which I am generally a fan of. Great work fellas'.......chapeau

[@PeakTorque]

Cheers mate

[@Heliosmaster]

This was awesome! I've really enjoyed it and I think it complements well, imho, the Nero Shows. I like Chris and Jesse because they are not afraid to give their opinion, and they definitely bring a more racing / look nuance to things, and I've enjoyed this one for similar reasons, and with your nuance on engineering and how it all relates to China, where in the end of the day everything is made. Please make it a regular thing.

[@joe4624]

Id be interested to hear you talk aero and gravel with Ben Delaney.

[@allanwarsing]

Primo content. Keep it going. 90 mins is perfect if you’ve got the topics. Long form is hard but is great as a viewer/listener. Try Riverside for the video and audio recording, prob the best out there.

[@leonschumann2361]

was running direct mount rim brakes for years. worked super great. the only reason l run discs is bigger tyres. modulation is a myth ldk. but yeah my winter/commuter bike on rims too. in the wet when the discs work they do work and just cleaner. but then they need more effort to keep uncontaminated. also not changing rusty cables (edit rim brakes with aluminium flanks not carbon that is)

[@pierremaggi8661]

Dear god another cycling podcast ? "A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one !"

[@brasstinmancrazy]

I'm looking to buy a rim brake Ritchey Road Logic Break-Away when they're released in 2024 for travel and long endurance rides. 28 or 30mm tires on a steel frame and it's as smooth as butter. I went back to rim brakes, riding a CAAD10, rim brake bikes depending on manufacture feel better to ride over disc frames IMO. The brakes modulation is way nicer on allow rims. I'm quicker on the CAAD10 than my Curve Belgie Titanium bike with 50mm Winspace Hyper wheels.

[@kpizzle1985]

If the UCI are genuinely concerned that turned in levers makes braking unsafe they would have banned TT bikes years ago. They're banning turned in levers because they don't like the look of them, they just don't want to say that.

[@pip119]

Human efficiency testing e.g. standing vs sitting would be v. cool!

[@vielradler4794]

Please continue! Very well done

[@colduncan1063]

Good stuff; informal and informative. Keep the deeper tech bias and you're on to a winner.

[@BARTHEZ42]

If you think there is too little topics you don't have to do podcast weekly but I will always watch this.

[@timhall7771]

Thumbs up to the idea of a regular podcast. But also thumbs up to the tiktok of you dancing in front of a freewheel soundcheck... ;-)

[@mr_musette]

Love it, keep em coming, good fodder for the festive 500.

[@gur262]

30:31 all brake intricacies don't matter. It just doesn't matter that much in bike racing. Weight is valued. It makes sense to value weight more. Where it gets complicated is when you wear down pricy carbon rims.

[@mattskalicky]

Re: wiggle it was their parent company that went broke that was running multiple companies and lost finance from their investor. Consequently, they couldn't fund the constituent companies. That was my understanding. Ie I don't think it was a purely wiggle issue

[@Gabrielle4870]

If Wiggle wasnt makeling money then that depletes the parent company. From my perspective, my buying from them stopped was when during and after COVID shipping costs went up too much.

[@PeterPutz82]

Interesting stuff, thanks guys.

[@joe4624]

The nero show talked about the rise of lactate testing, surely we're not far away from stick on lactate testers in the same way as glucose testing. Would this give you enough data to make the calculation into the difficulty of producing 300W in different positions?

[@robertbiaek3678]

I can assure you there is a golden space on KZbin for you. Love Nero Show I’m a racer so I’m really into training fitness etc. but when they about to talk about gear and technicality - they know shit (sorry guys). Yours cooperation is really valuable. Engineering stuff and a real time market trends is so good fulfilment for my KZbin content

[@LeonidKolomiytsev]

I love it and will be waiting for the next episodes.

[@bamicus9342]

I ordered many times from wiggle and product was always in a brown box! I thought it was a customs issue.

[@elijg6104]

I think you'd make a great podcast! Your engineering expertise really stands out. Imo the major weakness of the Nero Podcast is trying to be controversial in order to grab attention. There's a difference between having well reasoned opinions that happen to be controversial and saying whatever comes to mind trying to tick people off. You've done a great job at the former whereas the Nero Podcast often falls on the latter side.

[@andrewdeck7945]

Loved this!!

[@Aeroskiii]

Solid podcast, id be down to watch more 👍

[@TheXiamenCyclingFeed]

Must be part of the 'fucking mad' crew to stick have around for the full two hours, great chat! I also reckon Chinese electronic groupsets will finally sort things out to decent level in 2024, I might be biased though.

[@andrewc948]

intelligent conversation guys. Thanks

[@elchram]

I LOVE this podcast already - best covid remedy over Christmas. Wiggle is just a Bauernopfer in the whole Rene Benko scandal…

[@PeakTorque]

Get well soon!

[@elchram]

@@PeakTorque thank you!

[@alexanderwendelbo1447]

love it! more POd

[@1sigma]

1:43:18 Lots of informed opinion on this podcast, but this part is 100% undeniable truth

[@davidgeorge9233]

Hi Alex and Joe, really enjoyed this podcast, interesting topics and always entertaining. If you’re in any doubt about making this a regular thing then please be assured there are many people who would get great value out of this, personally I would subscribe for a small fee. What you have is a clear link to both the industry and the engineering, add in guests with their own interesting topics and you’ve got a great platform. As much as the Cade podcast and the Nero show are entertaining I feel they have slightly different ideas that are not so interesting as this one. Have a great 2024!

[@floam11]

Great content, keep doing it!

[@mrcycling7007]

Keep them coming! 👌🏼

[@boku1986]

with 300w test locked/unlocked etc on constant speed test you can reference it with Heart rate i guess. This means bigger enery expending. Also one thing i could imagine is to put temp sensor on your shock or measure oil temp to see how much energy you put into heating up the shock oil when going up the hill standing. That should be somewhat objective.

[@jamesbrickwood7414]

Love for this to be a more regular show

[@Yamaha_Bolt]

AliExpress no duty to Canada, why is there with PP?

[@lifeincycling]

Great pod, more of this please

[@tristanocristofoli9848]

I really like this content, I love how all you guys know each other and talk about each other's podcasts. It's like the Marvel universe ❤

[@BreakawayB]

😂 That was a wild ride.

[@patiogreen9738]

I’d love to hear more on Chinese power meters, you guys hit on the well known brands…but aside from gpllama, not much gets published about pms like magene or sigyei.

[@impaledface7694]

I know chinese brands have been pumping out product via famous motorcycle brands like moto morini, benelli, etc. I would be okay if they pick up some older names, can't be worse then what happened to walmart tier brands that used to sell great bikes. Personally I would enjoy another one. I like listening to these podcasts while in the workshop while wrenching.

[@theillegalimmigrant9314]

I think you need to do more of these, it was really good.

[@jonathanbrault2499]

Modulation and brake feel isn't about more lever travel... More about the pressure we can put with less travel. Example on a superbike brake, or race car brake, there is not much brake travel but more about much pressure you can put for modulation. Muscle memory feels way more accurate with pressure than travel in my experience.

[@fleurdelispens]

Re quantifying mental states and physical fatigue, there is a way to do that but it'd be practically challenging. Basically, you'd have to hack a head unit to display a survey question along the lines of "how mentally fatigued do you feel?" Then give riders a button they can press to select one of, say, five options. Do this at fixed intervals of a race (or simulated race) and there you go. Problem is you'd need to collect data from A LOT of riders, like a couple hundred, to make that data usable

[@DnDMF]

I am very sceptical on the biomechanical studies in cycling. Even with lactate threshold, measuring is one thing interpretation is another. Biology is a very exact science, once you change one parameter (temp, atm, wind, person, road buzz, sleeping, fuel, etc.) all of your previous results are not applicable. Also, in an exercise lab test of lactate, you will find the person's threshold but since glycolysis happens in every cell in your body, how do you know which tissue is the "bottleneck"? It could very well be an underlying chronic disease.

[@joelecho]

With you on rim brakes. Disc brakes are great, but for many applications, I'd rather spend the $500+ difference on improving other components.