To be frank: Chinese Bikes, shills, professional companies, grifters, podcasts.

[@ChinaCycling]

PT in real life is exactly as you see on camera. He's straight-talking, calls a spade a spade, but still comes with his 'please' and 'thank you's. Great fun to hang out and just talk bikes. We don't agree on everything, but mad respect for each other.

[@ajsiino741]

Joe, I liked the Top Gear nod at the end!

[@dustyhoods]

This one was an awesome podcast. I love the vibe, the clarity in terms and definitions, and the honest opinion.

[@503tc]

Why do you talk like you have mashed potatoes in your mouth?

[@borano2031]

@@503tc Why don´t you put your brain, if any, in gear before you start asking questions?? Rgr

[@galenkehler]

Definitely not a hard-hitting interview, he got away with flat out lying about quill stems without any challenge. Anyone who's dealt with them knows they seized up ALL the time, and the average Joe at home couldn't adjust them, the headset preload had dozens of different wrenches it could be ahead set is orders of magnitude better in every way

[@alexflorance1111]

Those jeans defo should not have passed QC with that hole

[@PeakTorque]

i just cant bring myself to throw them away, good ventilation, still comfy, just can't go commando in these otherwise you might get some scrote peeping out!

[@edwinwong9547]

The hot dog stand is open for business😅

[@johncitizen2007]

Sneaky nutz😊

[@Pratalax]

@@PeakTorque If you're worried about scrote peepage you better sew up the neck of that shirt, wheyyyyyyy!!!

[@Barrygee]

Almost a Peak bollock shot

[@9psi]

The old days with Matt Stephens, Si Richardson and Dan Lloyd was the top gear equivalent

[@AndrewG99]

Hank's antics are pretty Top Gear-ish

[@philiptarry702]

[@sueghdsifbvjvn]

Just a bitta banter LOL

[@cerealthree]

that is a very tactically placed hole in the jeans, basic instinct PT

[@ribblevalleycyclist]

Hi Peak Torque...... Thanks for the mention. Now I have a question for you. How did you get that C Class into the garage when there isn't a door there? Did you slide it in sideways, or did you build your garage around it like some kind of W204 shrine? 😉

[@Rover200Power]

There is a door right in front of it . . .

[@boriente]

​@@Rover200Powerit's not, though. It looks to be in front, sure - but also to the left.

[@Rover200Power]

@@boriente Perspective trick. The far end of the door is only 2 concrete blocks away from the join with the far wall. The car is in front of the garage door, otherwise you wouldn't be able to open the driver's door.

[@PeakTorque]

Cheers mate. It was off the road for a while. My local council gravelled the road on the coldest and wettest week of the summer - a load of gravel got into the hand brake shoes and made mince meat of the shoes and springs. Got the parts from Merc, was a cheap fix but hell of a job replacing the backing plate. Still finally nice to do it in a garage rather than 18 years of working on cars on the street in all weathers!

[@ribblevalleycyclist]

@@PeakTorque Have one myself, so I know they're not easy to say goodbye to. Love my one. Oh, and if you want to lift the bonnet on the Wheeltop groupset, just give me a shout 👍

[@forecast_hinderer]

“I shit a kilo this morning” I don’t buy any reviewed products, but I love this channel. I love bikes, value the truth, and of course, laughing out loud.

[@ThomasHubik]

I do both! I loved that line, and looked for it in the comments. On the other hand i bought farsports, actually wheelsfar, on PT's advice and I'm not dissapointed.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

Wait a sec, you’re telling me someone is getting PAID to watch KZbin cycling videos & report about them?

[@faisalalsaiful3838]

i need that job mate

[@TheXiamenCyclingFeed]

What a time to be alive 😅

[@AR-lz2br]

It's nice to see both of you guys together!

[@ryancoddington9162]

Thank you both for doing what you do !!! You both are of great value to the industry. I have made many purchases based off your information.

[@floam11]

If Joe knew about the tavelo frame issues before (bottom bracket undersized and out of alignment, crap headset compression setup), why he didn’t at least advised buyers on his website?

[@ChinaCycling]

The headset setup is annoying, but not a deal-breaker. I've had much more annoying saddle clamps on frames. The headset took me and Tom 3 attempts and about 10 mins to get right. I do want to make a video teaching people how to use it though. As for the bottom brackets, we have a much bigger number of Tavelos here in China all running around without issue. It's all about sample size and number of issues. We have confidence in our in-house QC and after-sales service. I mention the issues in my forth-coming video (that was shot before coming to China, and before PT dropped his video...) so it's not some giant cover-up.

[@dcv9460]

It's always awesome to see two YT'rs face to face talking to each other 😎👍

[@out_spocken]

Agreed. I really hate the echo chamber of youtubers in an area just commenting on each others videos rather than a colab which is more enjoyable and might actually make them all realise they are just other people, all excited and interested in the bike industry

[@andarenbici]

Shilling is promoting a product disingenuously. If there is a product placement or sponsorship, it must be disclosed.

[@cup_and_cone]

Really interesting sit-down discussion. I would have liked to hear Joe's thoughts on Chinese manufacturers and their unique frames' geometry (high BB, low stack, etc) as they transition past budget frames into more expensive Western brand competitors. As Asian brands, it is their right to make frames catering to the bodies of the Asian demographic, but if they're actively pursuing the Western dollar/pound, then when do we have that discussion?

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah, it's interesting. I've never noticed the high BB thing, but the low stack is defo a thing. I think a big part of it is road cycling is new in China, so most punters are in their 30s at most, so everyone is more flexible on average. (Just bc you don't have to consider 40yr old or 50yr old or above consumers when you design your frame.) But yeah, if you want the mainstream western market, that stack is gonna put some people off. I think because the domestic market is still booming in China, brands are happy to focus on that (for now.) But if you're a western consumer who likes low stack... fair dinkum.

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

That breeze block ambience: feels like two mobsters trying to figure out how to ice a stoolie down the lockup.

[@Gabrielle4870]

I used to sell musical instruments. Every instrument would get checked and set up before shipping. It's just what you do if you care about your customers. You just factor it into your margins. In my books bike frames are no different. Check the basics for deficiencies before shipping, fix or return, it's not hard.

[@Qualle7575]

China Cyclings moral values are yet to be found.

[@adamcoppock5018]

The UK roads requires its own approach to bike design 😂

[@ChinaCycling]

I am enlightened.

[@PeakTorque]

@@adamcoppock5018 spot on.

[@bkking5625]

Love the content. Joe and PT are well respected. Not a SHILL. Looking at 9Velo 2.0 carbon spokes or CRW. Which would you choose PT?

[@DrMonkehify]

Both my Yoeleo G21 and Seka Exceed were easy to build, thank god.

[@galenkehler]

Not disagreeing completely, but David Arthur (for example) is doing it full time (pt apparently has a day job) and makes zero pretense of providing a deep engineering analysis. He's doing bulk content, that's just apples and oranges. I don't know why people have so much problem with his content for what it is

[@discbrakefan]

He’ll never say anything bad about the brands who fund him to do this full time though

[@basedgodstrugglin]

Ronald Kuba should go on the Nero show. They’d end up sniffing their own bibs and enjoying the aroma

[@thedownunderverse]

😂

[@PeakTorque]

So true. It would hold a lot of speed

[@dirtylaps]

good to see the 40’s nice and straight

[@bill8791]

Shilling unfortunately has worked for GCN/GMBN and Dave Arthur for years.

[@merckxy54]

Who is this Shill?

[@faithwyar]

Everyone loves it when brands are held to account, but it's also worth noting that "mainstream" brands have very similar issues. Not Giant or Merida, but I've had heaps of issues with every other western frame. It's just that those brands don't end up on "non-shill" channels. I think comparisons would be better than just pointing out all the things the new kids are getting wrong.

[@PeakTorque]

Giant definitely have issues. My rim tcr has cracked 3 seatposts. Tcr Adv sl has the saddle topper not straight and cannot be adjusted. Giant revolts crack the seat tube, well documented. They really are not infallible!

[@dustyhoods]

I clearly see an new wave of cycling KZbinrs who cares about values more than income or plaid promotions. Like did you check that quality is good, do you mentioned all the bad things, did you actually ride that bike enough to be sure, do you have your own perspective (whether you are racing, engineering, selling bikes) and not just read the specs... these are the things that matter. I really hope this will increase the level and depth of reviews on all cycling media.

[@lohmotorsport8766]

Bought a winspace t1550 frame. I had to machine the braze on mount on the mill as the alignment was so far out. Have to say the finish and quality on everything else though was really good. But the front derailleur would have been a big issue if I couldn't sort it myself.

[@ex3qtor]

That was some great talk to listen to. Please do some more like that!

[@EdwardGraves-jk1bp]

I was wondering what you think about the new 9 velo cd 2.0 series? I've seen lots of good reviews about the original cd series but none about these wheels. Will the lower spoke count (20/20) lead to less stiff wheels? Are there any better wheels around that price point?

[@echtogammut]

As the person who started one of the longest running threads on Weightweenies, the "Chinese Carbon Hong Fu FM-066" thread, it basically started similar to the description, I was interested in the frame and no one had bought it, so I took a chance and bought it and left a review. Hong fu, Deng Fu and other Chinese brands have jumped on the thread and used it to market their new frames. However, I found most of the people who have contributed to the "Chinese Carbon" thread to be authentic. That said the Princeton Carbon and several other threads do seem a bit sketchy.

[@pHEEEEEEEEEEE]

I've also started using gloves - mainly just because you can hit them with brake cleaner and get them clean, necessity on used bikes

[@michaelb1716]

Great stuff gents. Joe - how big is the road scene in China becoming? How far away are we from seeing some serious Chinese riders in the pro tour?

[@PeakTorque]

Good question that. Tour of Himalayas is happening now. amazing event.

[@pigupigu]

Was the tavelo bottom bracket that came with the frame a cybrei one?

[@MattYoungman012]

I think the thing with new brand names is that they sound funny when you first hear them, but soon become commonplace. As if specialized, giant or cannondale wouldn’t sound weird if they were new. 1:07:44

[@kennethward9530]

1) For the western markets, need some bigger frame sizes, e.g. 61 cm available on a regular basis. 2) There may be money to be made in a minimal frame prep package, i.e. face the bottom bracket, face the head tube and fork bearing surfaces, & basic alignment check.

[@mipko]

I agree with Joe on shilling and, PT was unnecessary harsh on DA. I wouldn't call him a shill. His type of review has its place. For me it is sort of first quick overview. If I like the bike, then I will go deeper into other reviews. I think that you should be able to use your brain and know that Dave is doing overview type of review, not technical ones, GCN is promotion channel with focus on light topics and PT will do more in depth, engineering focused review.

[@discbrakefan]

Oh come on. He’s a shill. It’s good for seeing lots of footage of a bike, but you can’t trust the opinions and statements. GCN always mark their videos as “Paid Promotion”. DA is quite obviously getting support from certain brands, but never discloses this.

[@storegga]

Kudos, but I disagree man. He reviewed his mates company Bowman bikes model. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH7HiHSVfZlkoaM Comments are off. The frame was just awful. His review online stated pros and cons with one "con" as "frame has tendency to collect water". I mean... have you ever heard such shill.

[@andyman127]

Actually bought Winspace Hyper D45 based on PT's review. Super pleased with them, but still getting used to deep wheels and cross winds in the mountains.

[@c5492]

There is a lot of value for the cycling community in having a qualified engineer conduct honest and fact based reviews for something you may spend money on.

[@ezquiel700c]

I use this podcast to help me fall asleep. must be trustworthiness, makes me feel safe.

[@smokeoutfpv4132]

Sandisk or go home. Integral officially crap!

[@gweflj]

I had a vid of the wife on me on a scandisk that shat the bed. The memory card shat the bed that is.

[@cannon1156]

Joe .. you looked ultra defensive .. fancy selling that Tavelo frame after that review

[@Willyw0nka1]

PT is gaining so much traction this week, great straight talking objectivity.

[@user-gk9oj3nb1m]

Question... How did he manage to get his car into that space at the back!

[@PeakTorque]

@@user-gk9oj3nb1m dolleys

[@RoddyPerry]

Great video. A lot of insight from these two. A bit of feedback. For someone that is not in the know about Chinese brands and models, I am really struggling to understand the brand names. Combination of mumbling + silly brand names (+ not great sound?) makes it impossible to understand the brand/model name. At least I cannot understand it. I am interested in buying some of these components.

[@jamesmedlow]

My Carbonda 696 gravel frame was an excellent, no faff build. Easy, accurate, and fun. The £££ Pinnerello Grevil I did a few months afterwards, that was a nightmare!

[@tobycolin6271]

Nothing better than being a 100kg cyclist that can ride evens . Turning up on a 30 year old giant peleton (with 11 speed 105). The GCN crew have an opinion on everything I run. Bars to wide (440), rim brakes, aluminium wheels, tubes in my tyres. Have to wait for about an hour before they shut up. I’m to old, to fat, ride the wrong bike but not many on the latest bike ride the wheels of me on my local rides.

[@georgehagstrom4022]

Great podcast, Quick Pro goes to Quip rock I am curious about the Panda Podium in house QC. Would you have passed the frames that PT got?

[@pv_hl]

Winspace frames are also not ready?

[@mopedtobias9049]

I was wondering as well... Bought a G2 and it seems flawless.

[@jamesmedlow]

@@mopedtobias9049 My Carbonda 696 was/is also flawless. And I'm considering a G2 build next.

[@CrabgrassFarmer]

But if a Chinese brand is direct-to-consumer ready, that's not good for ChinaCycling, right?

[@TheABCjesus]

I totally agree about considering moving to a wider shell for road/gravel to allow more clearance, I dont quite follow how a crankset that would "revert" the q factor wont interfere with chain / chainstay etc. Can you explain?

[@jameseastwood402]

I'm looking forward to the Seka Spear impressions. The instruction manual for building it up is the best I've ever seen let alone some of the other attention to detail. Could be a step change in Chinese bikes.

[@vadouvan]

The only things missing from this video is two ferns. I'm curious to see if Peak Torque will share his thoughts on Dan Bigham's departure from Ineos at some point.

[@rlche4]

PT, you had a half boiled egg in the Philippines... It's a thing in Malaysia and Singapore too. Love these cycling YT colabs keep em coming. Really want to see you and Nero do one soon 😅

[@PeakTorque]

@@rlche4 it was cold and raw. Straight from the fridge

[@rlche4]

@PeakTorque yeah you often have to cook them yourself! Was there boiling water nearby? The technique is put boiling water into a bowl, add your egg and leave it until the water is cool enough to take the egg out. Can't say I'm a fan but I've been caught out before too!

[@Pipheart1989]

How appropriate is this bodge to overcome the steering top plug problem for D type steerer tube. Assemble with stem / plug tightened to allow bearing float adjustment. Use a truckers hitch between the forks and the stem with some parachord. Use the truckers hitch to adjust the steering float, secure the truckers hitch and then fix stem bolts to correct torque. Please comment......

[@PeakTorque]

@@Pipheart1989 hahah. Im not sure a truckers hitch would get the high enough load. 2Nm on an m6 top bolt would be about 1kN (100kg of load). A fat bird might do it. Ask them to sit on the bars while you tighten the stem. Start the ride at McDonalds

[@Pipheart1989]

​@@PeakTorqueappreciate the engineering insight and understand Bodging an cycling industry cockup with a fat bird is just wrong. Cheers.

[@SWAGolfChannel]

Hey PT, the CRW 65/75 look to have the most modern rim profile of their whole range. Is the weight penalty worth the aero for fairly flat/undulating rides? I'm dead keen on them but can't get over the trend for pros riding 50mm wheels on world tour teams, even on flatter stages. The 65/75 appear to offer it all. Is this wishful thinking? Are the marginal gains from the 50/60 not worth it?

[@kristiaandoms2822]

I cannot understand why they sell frames with all these issues. Two years ago I bought a Winspace T1500D from the factory. Because of a faulty bearing eating into the steerer, I asked for a new fork. The factory told me to buy a new frame as they do not have/produce spare forks for the T1500D! I had to give up dealing with Winspace, they simply do not answer or reply! Eventually the Dutch Winspace dealer got me a fork. The after sales from Winspace is rubbish and their product is not without faults either. I recently purchased a Bigrock frame from Joe, I hope to finish the bike build in a few weeks. See what this is like! Chinese framesets are approaching "Western Prices" but not the after sales quality. I think with current discounts you are better to buy the mainstream complete bikes than building yourself from China.

[@thedronescene7474]

So, for the look of it, Tavelo frames are literally crap and yet no other KZbinr bothered to mention any of it……..

[@pierrex3226]

Yeah it's incredible. The fact they are yet to ship one frame with an ok bottom bracket opening is insane. I've bought lots of sub 500$ frames and never had that problem.

[@justinkase8716]

@@pierrex3226the rest of the other KZbinrs didn’t have problems.

[@thedronescene7474]

@@justinkase8716 They did, they just got paid to say otherwise.

[@barryboardman5770]

@@thedronescene7474lols.

[@imrevadasz1086]

​@@justinkase8716Maybe they all used the undersized BB that was shipped with the frame? It's not necessarily going to cause an immediate problem depending on the BB you use. But it's prone to cause problems down the road. That's exactly why those quick reviews aren't worth much, because they just won't be checking all those details, and it's still possible to assemble the bike, so everything is great,, right?

[@klein-concept]

Here for the spicy burger 🍔

[@ChinaCycling]

SPICY BURGER RIDER 🍔

[@GrouEEf]

Who isn't here for the spice 😂...

[@muratmustafa4532]

Did not you see GCN's video when the new Pinarello came out? That was a prime example of shilling.

[@PeakTorque]

@@muratmustafa4532 i dont watch gcn

[@teabone112]

What is the brand name/model of the 20 inch wheel bike mentioned?

[@PatrickLino]

90 minutes of Alex looking like he wants to punch Joe in the face, just because.

[@PeakTorque]

Eh?

[@PatrickLino]

@@PeakTorque I'm speaking in jest of course. Great video gentlemen.

[@patrickparisienne1917]

@@PeakTorque as you say, ‘it’s just banter’….

[@infocuslearning]

How did PT park the white Merc behind him? It looks like it’s parked tight up against three walls.

[@PeakTorque]

il teach you how to park like a boss :)

[@grantdavis8953]

Alex, what bibs did you land on? I am also freakishly tall and not a fan of the whole riding in hot pants look…

[@PeakTorque]

Rule28 in xl are my go to long day bibs. They come to my knees! Or Endura in long length are also good. Other makes like Castelli come up.a bit short even in xxl

[@cesarsaurasilva6637]

Unfortunately The Nero show is rapidly decreasing interest, quality and honesty...

[@garylynch3897]

Might be worth turning down an alloy bottom bracket to custom fit the frame it might last longer and be better for the frame and bearings

[@glennicol1361]

Light Carbon have a good reputation... Not sure why the Tavelo is more than 2 times the cost of a Light Carbon frame.

[@jiangheng]

Which helmet has lower drag according to your test?

[@PeakTorque]

Tested my HJC vs Kask protone as HJC was 3w faster at 35kmh! 😂

[@hill160881]

What I like about the China companies is they offer things not available by the main companies at any price. Like my wheeltop eds running as a 2x13 10/36 13s rotor cassette. No one is making a 2x13. Is it a needed gear set? No but I wanted something not available. That’s fun.

[@renegadeflyer2]

I agree they should have instructions and of course tork numbers. I had built a velobuild endurance frame. I am very happy with it. I would be very upset if I had to ream, file or sand the frame, to make components fit.

[@changliu3915]

To be fair the Chinese for Big Rock is 巨石 which is better translated as Huge Bolder. Don't know if that is better.

[@卡臣-c2f]

Bolder本身就有huge的意思，所以可以直接BOLDER

[@eleni2554]

👏👏👏👏👏👏 great honest podcast,see you next quarter

[@permutationlab]

I do think the discussion and many meaning of shillings are missing the point. I think what you should instead be discussing is what we call journalistic integrity. KZbinrs are not journalists, but they are to a certain extent and as both are representing a media brand similar standard should apply I would think. Journalistic integrity in terms of reviews (relevant to our discussion here), at least in terms of cycling product is simply - no reviews can be paid or bought. It does not really matter if you put out a fair criticism or commentary on the products or not, or no matter how serious in testing the product you are. If it can be bought it’s an ad. If you don’t declare that this is an ads, you are doing wrong your audience. It’s actually illegal. Anyone can make paid review honestly and say it with their full confidence, but that’s still a paid review. It’s as simple as that no matter how stringent your protocol is. The incentive work against the audience. to trust you. Yes adsense makes pittance money but as a reviewer that’s not how business should be made if we take the traditional definition of journalistic integrity. That’s why we have membership, merch, subscriptions or other avenues of making revenue so that you can buy the product for testing yourself, or be sent the product for testing, but not selling the reviews. I think many youtubers are just missing this point. Look to James Hoffman and how he review coffee products. No one in the cycling media and KZbinrs have as good a moral integrity as him. None. That's how products review are done professionally. You can debate the merit of each review by any youtuber. They can be real deep and stringent or they can be just feeling about the product. All is valid and if you don’t like their methodology, that’s up to you to watch or not. But if they are not selling their reviews, that’s at least trustworthy. A channel worth using as an example is Ben Deanely. He does not sell reviews. He is sponsored by brands that’s not related to the products he reviews. He put out no affiliate code. Details may not covering engineering deep dive but provide good and balanced takes due to his long riding and real racing experience. He does get sent bikes but have to return them and he takes his integrity seriously. For traditional media, look to Escape Collective - operations are funded by membership. Products are sent and trips for reviews are paid for but all products are returned. Paid trips are declared. No they don’t bring the veneer out to measure bb roundness but their transparency and longevity is much more trustworthy than many so called engineers review (not talking about PT) that’s a disguised paid review. Channels can say they don’t review shit products coz they have to be trustworthy but if it’s paid review then that’s not good enough. When other outlets can do non-paid reviews, it begs the question why some choose to. With all that said i have no issue with paid reviews if it’s declared. I will even watch it if it provided decent value or entertainment. The nature of having a declaration is all that matters as the audience can decide for themselves, at least we know where the incentive lies. The methodology or stringency with which you partake to conduct a review does not absolve the reviewer for being a shill (not declaring it's paid) or purposefully hiding the fact. When the nature of the transaction is hidden, It does no one any good. Because when people find out, such reviewer loses all the trust he accumulates.

[@ChinaCycling]

Yup yup. I think you're right. Basically KZbinrs aren't journalists, but also the journalists in our industry aren't always the best examples. (But not all.) being impartial in your review while the sales department is taking tens of thousands from the same brand on an ad campaign is always gonna raise eyebrows.

[@permutationlab]

@@ChinaCycling absolutely. It goes both ways. There are both good and bad examples to be had from traditional medias and youtuber channels. Not that traditional cycling publication is a shining beacon of moral integrity when some certainly try their best to hide the fact that some content are paid. Doing minimal lipservice and euphemism like “in partnership with brand xxx”. I think for cycling it’s find to get sent stuff. It’s not unlike car reviews. No outlet can realistically buy cars to review! Much less all newly released cars! That’s why the notion of being absolutely neutral is bogus at best. When you are sent to press junket you are primed to be positive. It’s no different than being sent goods for review or make content about. What it comes down to is transparency. As long as the nature of transaction is stated most audience should be fine with that as they can measure the value themselves. I do enjoy watching PT criticizes products even if he get sent for free. For companies, the value is already in the reach and the association with the channel. If brands marketer can see that and not just that all things have to be glowing and positive, we will be in a much better place as a cycling media ecosystem. I am in this industry and ecosystem myself on the media side, and find it hard but not impossible to run a transparent outlet.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

The Nero Show I do appreciate

[@joehenryhooper]

Just adding to the petition for Durianrider on the Nero Show☝️

[@gravelDave]

There is defintely a Durianrider and Jesse interview on the youtube.

[@chrishophoto]

Why would you ream out a BB with a flat wheel instead of a proper bottom bracket reaming tool (Park Tool: HTR-1 with proper attachments) that was designed for that task? I normally respect your views, but are you thinking a flat wheel is going to do a precise job?

[@Antoine_Frs]

I assume that you can’t get a proper job with the reaming tool if the BB is too tight. So you’d start with a flywheel and then finish it nicely with the reaming tool. Luckily PT leaves close enough to Mapdec so he has access to a shop who has a reaming tool and knows how to use it.

[@johncoates6039]

Joe-have you tried a Deda D-shaped expander bung in the tavelo?

[@alleywatson]

Why does ‘hot mix’ sound like you could buy next to the Bombay Mix.

[@jswisher893]

did u discuss jesse and chris response to your tavelo review?

[@kenny2PWRR]

New podcast segment…..shillinders list. You’re welcome.

[@living4adrenaline]

MTB tires don't fit on most gravel bikes with a few exceptions like the salsa cutthroat. Not more expensive if you order the right tires from spain or italy

[@physicalprep1]

I really enjoyed this. Thanks

[@morrisizing]

Position is everything in road bike TT's the longer you can hold the aerohoods Position the better. Not wanting to seem like I am piling on Jesse, but I think this is where he is wrong on his speed improvement from his new bike. I expect most has come from the positional change with narrower bars and shorter cranks, not the tyres. I have ridden 2 front wheels in TT's this year a 55mm with a 19mm internal that I run 25mm tyres GP5kTR on and a 65mm wheel with 23mm internals in which I run a 28 gp5kTT that blows out over 30mm. There really isn't a huge amount in it. In fact I think the 55mm wheel with a narrower slightly slower rolling tyre is quick on higher speed days vs the deeper but wider wheel.

[@Onigure]

PT you'd just hate me. I'm a small, chinese bike lover, weight weenie and still in rim brakes guy.

[@ds6914]

gravel stuff is for your road bike, road shoes but..... you can walk in them!

[@grimpeur]

Great podcast guys! Really enjoyed that

[@markb9571]

If only these frames came with 180mm disc mounts

[@alistairmacfadyen9365]

Brilliant, say it how it is, Respect.

[@storegga]

Wonderful work lads. I like the suspicion around mechanics in mucoff gloves. How cycle podcasts should be. Surprised you didn't rip on newly burgeoning Hambini Dave Arthur bromance. Think things cooled off now and was just a bike show affair.

[@markrskinner]

For me the problem is titles like "The *real* reason I ditched X and now use Y" Are they saying everyone else is giving a false reason? And it's not just cycling that does that.

[@jonphotos8631]

Nero show look here!!!!! Dam Durian Rider and Natasha in studio!!!!!!

[@gravelDave]

@@jonphotos8631 Too busy with OnlyFanz

[@davidgilfillan1934]

No!

[@edwarding4355]

My guess is that the big name brands are like that. It is just they come assembled so the problems are hidden. 3 out of 3 Argon 18 I worked with have bottom bracket problems.

[@alleywatson]

Did Joe have the Lion bar. 😂

[@ChinaCycling]

I did, was just as good as I remember...

[@robin_stevens]

Lauf gravel bikes use a different standard ... and as a result you can fit a massive tyre

[@D_H_88_99]

Harley & Natasha in the nero "Studio" , I would pay moneyto see that! Good chat guys, some interesting perspectives being discussed.

[@hexray715]

Man love that story about the Philippines 😂. My country never fails to dissappoint 😂.

[@ripnshread2441]

Shill. This is not a new concept in this industry at all. If you ever pick up an analog cycling magazine, if they have reviews for a brand be wary if they also have a full or double page add for said brand in said magazine. The quid pro quo is there. I was once displaying at a large brands "brand festival" for "club" members. The editor for one of the largest mags came over to talk, I wanted to give him one of our products to review as it was directly compatible with the company that was holding the festival. They refused to take them for review as they said they would never ride said brands whatever as it was and always has been shite. Nice. They went on taking photos for the festival coverage in their rag.

[@johnsfulton]

Great chat about names from China, but did i see that Joe is selling helmets called PMT? Imagine rocking up to the cafe with one of them on 😅

[@awi9826]

Ironically, almost simultaneously, David Arthur posts a new video on an Elite wheel set at a price point that is too good to be true. I tried these myself and couldn't use them because of brake rub as soon as you put even a little power in. Either this man is incapable of generating more than 300 Watts or he's a shill who did get payed for reviewing this brand.

[@Andy-co6pn]

Could be that he was sent a set that had been carefully selected by q.c.

[@Never_unknown]

Is that a lion bar!!

[@bechirfedin4892]

Cybrei working on a crankset with 24 mm Ti axle ,it's this fake news?

[@lovenottheworld5723]

Anyone selling bicycle stuff is doing it because they love it. Nobody says, 'I want to make a lot of money how will I do it, I know I'll start a bicycle business'. It isn't fair that they get so much criticism. If you don't like it or you don't trust them then don't buy the stuff.