Big changes for the Hussite Wagon! (August patch AoE2)

Here's a quick look at the proposed August 2023 patch changes to the Hussite Wagon.
1:35 HP and changes to bonus damage they receive
2:45 How their attack is changing
5:00 Better or worse damage in castle age?
6:34 Better or worse damage in imperial age?
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition

[@Binarokaro]

It feels a little odd that they're giving the Hussite Wagon characteristics of the Organ Gun. I feel like it would have been better to further workshop the defensive mechanics more, instead of making the unit feel more generic

[@Lauth3]

Yup, but at least the organ gun makes sense with the many projectiles killing big armies easily

[@CTM162]

​​​@@RoastCDuckSeptember 1999. I was there when it was released, as I'd been playing the original Age of Empires until then. What you describe as something to be fixed wouldn't have necessarily been considered a bug, as that was just how the mechanics worked. Still does; units in general do not attack while in motion.

[@fwosti3548]

Ya hard agree. I'm NOT excited to see these changes go live. I don't like them.

[@Zakuzelo]

That'd require effort.

[@affanhasby822]

Just turn this unit into garrisonable unit like rams. Each garrisoned archer-line would shoot projectiles that deals for some damage. Each garrisoned militia-line would deal damage per second near the wagon. The garrisoned units keep their damage type (e.g: garrisoned skirmishers would deal bonus damage to archer-line).

[@forsakenquery]

So they actually managed to make them MORE useless? I mean, I'm not even mad, kind of impressed.

[@zaleost]

Does make me wonder why they felt this was even necessary.

[@valger3652]

Very confusing why not just alllow to shoot all projectiles at once. Nefing damage output and hp makes them even less tempting to use as support unit. Devs probably wants to make sure , that nobody will use this unit, which will die even against villagers.

[@zaleost]

@@valger3652 having thought about it for a moment, it could be that they really want to reinforce its position as a support unit in a ranged exchange. Although if this is the case I don't think its a great idea to do this by making it basically useless in other situations.

[@Ustaleone]

I used this civ and unit 2 days ago and they were by far the worst civ I have used in a while. Even while massed they were pretty bad.

[@karonteazt3286]

I srsly hate how this Is becoming More ando More a shoter game instead of a strategic one

[@tomh4mmer]

Making the unit need to pack and unpack could be so much interesting than this changes

[@headecas]

i was thihnking garrisoning archers to increase firepower

[@MammothSaltyGachaponOfficial]

@@headecas That​'s​ great​ idea!

[@thomasfplm]

​@@headecas, or giving building armour that would reduce the damage from cavalry and archers, but be vulnerable to infantry with arson and siege.

[@grinslayer1232]

And it packs faster when its garrisoned

[@viktorreiter8811]

exactly. this is just another orjan gun. give it a large hp and armor boost when unpacked and make it unable to fire while on the move. a weaker mobile tower would be a fun mechanic OR give it the ability to garrison units, just like a tower, with range units giving extra projectiles. this would be in line with it's original concept (they made it to tank ranged attacks in front of units but basically no one uses them this way bc it's impossible to micro them properly). this would mean that adding just a few unupgraded wagons can make your archers immune to skirm counters

[@amrosh791]

It needs to be like a ram. Garrison hcs in it and be totally impervious to arrows. It also needs more, not less hp

[@pancrolvoobly1376]

You should see the version we have in the voobly community patch, then

[@DraconianEmpath]

ooh, I like this. garrisoned units can still attack? would be really cool

[@amrosh791]

yeah, like garrison HC and add projectiles. I think that would be such a fun mechanic. Halbs and HC can add projectiles. Imagine having halbs and being able to jump into the wagons when the champs get on top of you and wreck them with guns 11 @@DraconianEmpath

[@amrosh791]

what does it do? @@pancrolvoobly1376

[@pancrolvoobly1376]

@@DraconianEmpath No unit can attack from inside another, the closest thing is towers with archers. But yes, you can put pikemen inside them an ungarrison when cavalry gets closer.

[@JoeKnaggs]

A mobile tower would have been pretty cool. Unpacking into an outpost of archers with fairly high defence but are kinda weak when unpacked.

[@Osteichthyes]

Reminds me of the Rig/Battle Base in CnC 3. I could see this working.

[@cleanerben9636]

this is what it should have been. Would be really cool to see.

[@jeffreysamson5938]

​@@Osteichthyesyeah it couldve worked

[@troydowns7748]

This would make a lot more sense

[@Arsenikos1329]

@Devs hire this person

[@MrTheQuestioner]

Always nice to see Ornlu and Spirit of the Law independently coming to the same conclusions

[@Falcon0BR]

Have no ideia who is Ornlu

[@Yamaneko81]

​@@Falcon0BRit's a wolf

[@samrodrigues3199]

​@@Yamaneko81Who's pack has been attacking our flocks

[@SIGNOR-G]

​@@samrodrigues3199if you kill him we will give you flaming arrows

[@Progeusz]

Ornlu's conclusion was that Hussite wagons still suck but are much better than before. That's completely different from SotL who incorrectly claims they were nerfed.

[@-Zakedodead]

I really like the idea of a wagon unpacking into a sort of "palisade bomb", and not even having the guns

[@szymonczarnomski7064]

Pack, unpack with garrisoning would be awesome.

[@sirius4k]

I hate it. But it would be historically accurate, so I'd deal with it :P

[@thomasfplm]

And getting building armour to reduce damage from archers and cavalry, but be vulnerable to infantry with arson and siege.

[@_jurd]

I would REALLY love to hear the designers explain the rationale for changes lol

[@tankofnova9022]

I can guess some of it Herr durrr🥴 game be better if wagon fast somehowz

[@rerror3577]

I wanted it to be basically a moving wall that you can pack and unpack. Two wagons less than three tiles apart will build a wall between themselves. You soldiers can pass through the wagon part like gates.

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

sounds fun, but possibly very hard to balance

[@DinnerForkTongue]

​@@user-sl6gn1ss8p Not really. Make them super weak to onagers, scorpions and bombard cannons (and towers). Those protective planks on the wagons are only so thick.

[@Osteichthyes]

Honestly, could just turn it into an APC and units can fire out of it like a tower. Could get some really massive output by putting in HCs, but if you lose a wagon those HCs are in a very vulnerable spot. It would be interesting to see this if they could also have the game check what unit types were garrisoned in it. For instance, 2 Arb, 2 Skirm, 1 HC. The wagon would carry them around and it would fire 2 arrows, 2 spears, and 1 shot. It'll give some protection and increase the amount of agency that players have while being fairly authentic to the original concept.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

"Battle Fortress ON THE ALERT!"

[@tamaskosa4456]

I like the APC concept where garrisoned units can fire maybe with a reduced movement speed or the mentioned pack/unpack mechanic. The different projectiles based on garrisoned units is not yet in the game so I think that would be too much

[@stylesrj]

@@llSuperSnivyll WE WILL CRUSH 'EM!

[@XyntXII]

what does APC stand for? But I agree making them more into fortifications would make some sense. I thought of the pack and unpack mechanic sotl mentioned during the video, too. Maybe making them into somewhat weaker, but movable towers

[@llSuperSnivyll]

@@XyntXII (A)rmored (P)ersonnel (C)arrier.

[@JustDaZack]

Seeing the "pack/unpack" mechanic being used with a different unit would actually be amazing!

[@RLelling]

I feel like packing / unpacking would be very interesting, but I think we could do something cooler than just a treb-style switch between armed and moving. I wonder if we could treat them something like a pop-up palisade, and when ordering a group of them to unpack, they could be made to form a line, so the player can essentially speed-build a little wall in front of their cannons, trebs, etc. The passive ranged damage reduction to allies behind it would still work, and while they wouldn't be a super durable wall, they could do the job of protecting your cannons from light cavalry just enough to give you an edge. We could even give them an attack with a really short range, like, a range of 2. Historically the crossbows used in a Hussite Wagon situation wouldn't have a lot of range, as they were mainly used by inexperienced shooters to pelt enemies with imprecise but very spicy fire that can pierce armor at short range. So if melee units choose to punch through the Hussite Wall-gon, they would also take a bit of damage from the shots as they fight to get to the juicy treb behind it. The low range would keep the use of this defensive, and combined with the ability to move them, it makes them the intended "defensive support for offensive operations" unit. Gameplay-wise, this could be really fun, but also really difficult to implement. The idea of popup palisades or short-range towers definitely sounds like a recipe for shenanigans, but with how much micro this could need if implemented poorly, it could also be completely useless in an actual game. Also, just style-wise, I think Hussite Wagons look super dorky as they are right now. Because they're treated just like any unit, especially by AI, you just see a swarm of these overgrown carts with no real movement to their unit model wheeling across the grasslands like tanks, and when switching directions they rotate in such an unnatural way, it just looks silly. Like a legion of medieval Daleks. Surely we can come up with something better.

[@inductivegrunt94]

The loss of damage is probably it's biggest hit. I really like the Hussite Wagon, but the old wagons are a definitely better. They swapped out the historical stand and fire for game hit and run. I'd much prefer an unpack mechanic like Spirit said at the end, but making Bohemians more mobile with hit and run attacks with both Hussite Wagons and Handcannoners sounds good as well.

[@08vinster]

I think they're trying to appeal to pros, instead of being interesting and unique, they try to make it fit the pro meta, a simple example is how they turned sicilians and burgundians into more generic civs (thinking of hauberk for sicilian cavaliers)

[@tomasstanek2982]

no one asked for hauberk, everyone wanted sicilians to embrace the seargants. @@08vinster

[@inductivegrunt94]

@08vinster That sounds lame. But I'll still play Bohemians the way I always do, stand and fight with Hussite Wagons as makeshift battle tanks, so this change won't affect my playstyle.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

​@@08vinster Guess it's time for the community to make its own updates with mods.

[@mvcavinato]

In summary: they managed to make the worst UU in the game even worse

[@QaRajhCreations]

The Arambai would like to argue with this statement, but it missed. As usual.

[@joranfokker7477]

​​@@QaRajhCreationshera wants to have a talk with you

[@anothaeasywin]

​@@QaRajhCreationsijs I personally have seen and had a mass of arambai shred paladins....hussite wagon has zero melee armor 😂

[@Just_a-guy]

@@QaRajhCreations A groupe of Arambai could act as fast mangonel, groupe of Hussite wagons cant do shit. Arambai arent best but are far from worst in my opinion

[@kartikeyatiwari2502]

Worst UU in the game is war elephant

[@St3v3NWL]

Hussite wagons should have a trebuchet mechanic in where they can dig in, protect 100% of the units behind it and deal more damage.

[@mitchellbur4010]

Spirit of the Law Just thought I would like to mention that one of my favorite videos of yours was the one where you analyzed all the wonders of aoe and deduced what buildings they are based on. Seeing an expansion on that video to include news civs would be great!

[@anothaeasywin]

They added the +6 to the villagers against wagons because the only time you use the wagons is during a early castle drop. Then theyre the best UU in the game lol

[@youtubelover7681]

i wonder whether in later patch Frank Castles will be renamed as Punishers ...

[@amrosh791]

I just hate this change. I hope the delay is to make this better. The Hussite should be buffed. Make them awesome.

[@87JJosh]

They should be better against Cavalry but I like the cover mechanics, the devs should make that work

[@08vinster]

Agreed, I think a lot of people expected the cover area to be fixed/buffed. It really doesn't work as expected. Think it was bad they buffed the dps vs low armour, instead of the support role.

[@Lauth3]

Maybe the ability to fill the wagon with HC so wagons do extra shots and the HC are protected, just like rams are stronger with infantry in them

[@DannieRay23]

I was quite disappointed you didn't repeat the damage test against groups of units to account for the differences on accuracy. You are generally very thoughtful about that stuff.

[@LoutreDuBengale]

Wont change much.

[@Progeusz]

@@LoutreDuBengaleit would change a lot.

[@jjforcebreaker]

Wagons should have a buff aura that adds ranged armor to infantry and archers inside that aoe radius. Just like the energy shield 'aura' in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds 🌃⭐

[@thomasfplm]

Archers and cavalry

[@injest1928]

I love star wars galactic battlegrounds but id rather not have aura buffs in a medieval game.

[@camroth89]

​​@@injest1928Too late we already have several.

[@MATT-qu7pl]

I wish they would hire you tbh. The idea at the end of being an unpackable unit has some really great potential for a unique unit

[@mauriciobetimpaesleme8702]

Okay, I loved your idea of packing and unpacking. Thought of it not exactly a unit but a technology that affects infantry and archers+skirmishers that is a new formation type available on groups that are 5 of more. They pack and stand still, have pike bonus vs cavalry when melee and fire arrows like a turret from range.

[@jonasklose6472]

What the developers often don't look at are the campaigns. These big changes could severely increase the difficulty of them. Some campaign missions stopped being playable for me in medium or hard. Especially when the scenario mostly used a small number of unique units for the player to fight with. What were reasonable battles turned into hit-and-run and avoidance strategies.

[@enestezi]

Just buff the wagon, why the devs doing these weird changes?

[@CrnaStrela]

They wanted to be careful about this unit, Bohemian is already really strong civ in late game without this. So they are trying to make balanced hussite wagon that works properly, though the intended use might not be the same as initial plan.

[@onebigfatguy]

@@CrnaStrela Odd. Hera just dropped a Civ tier list about 2 days ago and rated Bohemians as fairly lackluster. These "new" War Wagons are going to get even less use then the old ones with how shit they are now.

[@tomtenthij5676]

Thank you for the amazing video Spirit of the Law!!! 😁

[@igorbukovy4313]

I remember a unit (square formation) of hussite wagons, hand canoneers, monks and hufnice. I do not remember the numbers but it was a big unit and it was devastating. :)

[@NPChuman]

The unpack / pack mechanic makes the most sense similar to a treb. I think an additional negating of incoming damage should be considered if you also use the box formation. As for the attack they would need a spirit level formula to do it so that high pierce armor targets get full damage while low armor targets get damage by the number of projectiles that hit them.

[@KANEISNINJA]

hussite wagon and the elephant archers should be like the elephants in lord of the rings with multiple archers ontop, would be so much cooler

[@ObsidianShade]

This update reminds me of the Mayan Hul'che Javelineers tech... The additional attack of 1 damage that ends up doubling the initial attack you'd expect to be reduced to one damage. This update just adds attacks that one would expect to be reduced to 1 damage each--- additional skirm level attacks without bonus damage. Having additional 1 damage attacks or attacks that'll be reduced to 1 in 'most' situations are effectively the same. Just as the graphs in the video show: it can only be an advantage in cases where the wagons are used early, or vs enemies that are lagging behind in armour upgrades for their trash units.

[@thomasfplm]

I agree that a pack/unpack mechanic would be nice. It would be interesting if they gained building armour becoming like a palissade with the capacity to attack when unpacked, maybe dealing some extra damage to cavalry.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Stang, it appears to be the Siege Tower all over again. Will see how this goes with live play on casual and competitive matters though.

[@RaptorsReport]

Would have liked to see how they look against a group of high armor infantry, as the secondary projectiles seem a lot better against a clump of units instead of a single one.

[@MrARock001]

A second unit with a pack/unpack mechanic would be neat, especially if it conferred some advantage, like only blocking ranged fire behind it while unpacked, or only being able to deploy the larger projectile when unpacked.

[@Terry_T_ODST]

8:53 The problem with a packing mechanic is that, unlike trebuchets, they don't have the range to justify using it. If anything, their onager weakness just becomes worse without the ability to move. My take on the unit is that it should have cavalry armor, since its original role was to stop knights from charging into civilian fighters. Or maybe we can take a page on the centurion and make it apply an aura, but instead of a buff we can have a debuff to either cavalry movement speed or attack speed. Of course, the cost of the unit should be adjusted accordingly, and you're still vulnerable to onagers, infantry and villagers, but it would make its role much more defined and impactful

[@tobiasL1991]

Big changes, or how it should be named "big nerfs"

[@PauxloE]

If you want it authentic, have it garrisoned by ranged units, protecting them against melee attacks from cavalry. Then it doesn't really need an attack on its own, just allow the units in it to fire. (Might be overpowered this way?)

[@Mamenber]

I think it should have worked similarly to Battle Fortress from Yuri's Revenge, a slow unit with loads of HP but weak attack that can garrison multiple foot soldiers who can keep attacking while protected.

[@GoldePants]

Hussite waaaaaagons wooo!

[@ryanforgo3500]

Good to see you healthy and posting my fellow nerd, liked and upvoted

[@mohamedghaithmajjani8553]

I might enjoy if it could garision xbows, hand cannons, and halbs as the photo had. They can have one side they can engage from. Then get rid off all the shots. It would be expensive to get all the units inside, though probably well worth when you hit pop cap.

[@Ariamaki]

I think testing the unit damage against actual groups to get a better feel for the impact of the secondary shots would have been worthwhile, given how much of the total potency got shifted into that. I still think this is probably a hit to the unit but it's probably a lot less drastic there. Either way it should be more defensively-oriented just for vibes and distinction from other units.

[@nl_161]

It should have a decent primary weapon (one larger higher dmg cannon or fewer hand cannon with higher dmg) and be garrisonable with archers and hand cannoneers and then fire like a castle (when unpacked, if one wants this mechanic).

[@agaifi]

a pack/unpack maybe could allow for actual buffs to the wagon, perhaps?

[@simonmonto]

1:31 ooooh what are those cute little cannons?!!

[@Jixxor]

2:40 I'm in tears. This reads like a perfect fit for that one meme. "Who would win, an expensive gunpowder unique unit or 2 spanish villagers"

[@MrMichelangelo]

What if there could be garrisoned ranged units inside, just like it is with rams and siege tower? If it was the wagon tanking all the dmg and the units could have some bonuses to atk or range (e.g. +1 range because all the archers inside the wagon were a bit higher than on the ground lvl)?

[@alexanfung]

if the Hussite Wagon really wants to be buffed, maybe it can be set to "0 range attack by the opponent will receive 2 damage per hit" think of their use and the opponents like knights and axeman, it is possible to have some spearman inside the wagon

[@ZlobitkoRostak-hp1en]

Garrisoned spearmen, there you go!

[@alexanfung]

@@ZlobitkoRostak-hp1en then it will waste too many population to do so

[@ville4090]

They should have additional armor and improved rate of fire when stationary after two seconds alongside a slight bonus against cavalry.

[@barbarne]

Funny hearing you talk about UU historical accuracy in a game where Memelukes exist!

[@nathangamble125]

I think it will make it better against groups of units. Most of the secondary projectiles were missing in the demo here. The recent change to the organ gun also made them more effective again grouped units for the same reason.

[@HaBBiSiFy]

I would love to see pack-unpack for these. Imagine guys in the wagon pulling the rooftops up and guns sliding out of the holes

[@Polymachaeroplagides]

4:20 nice backfire shots

[@nafg115]

I wish they improve Burmese phantos as in the past

[@GrahamHelliwell]

One nice thing historically, is that a single one of these units now acts more like a small bundle of archers with a surrounding thing adding armour. Though I agree that an unpack, existing hard-to-hit-and-run mechanic, or even just high frame delay would have been nice from a historical perspective. Garrisoning extra ranged units that add to the projectiles could have been interesting too.

[@LastingDays]

I agree give it pack/ unpack mechanic or a garrison feature like the solider's jumping behind the walls etc

[@immanuelhalimchristianto4215]

Totally agree with the pack / unpack mechanics

[@AngelsArmour]

Definitely seems like a nervous. I really like your idea of it a pack and unpacking unit. Way more interesting.

[@Doomfrost]

I wish one of these changes would change it's attack orientation to hitting from it's sides than from it's forward point (Makes it easier to orient your other units behind it for its defensive aura). Also if someone wanted to solidify this unit as a pure defensive unit they'd give it the ability to construct palisade walls. Like imagine a combat scenario where you have a few of these units walling off choke points or disrupting enemy movement while also soaking damage. Like put less emphasis on offense for the Wagon and more emphasis on being a damage sponge and a disruptor unit.

[@8487628]

I would make them more similar to rams that could shoot. Like you would be able to garrison pike inside it and it would have some melee damage. Or maybe have it be able to train pikes from it

[@sgoorhuis]

The pack and unpack ability sounds great, more like portable walls. Making you choose what is good at the moment like the Rathas

[@christopherg2347]

"To the scenario editor!" (insert Adam West Batman scene transition).

[@Apocalypso64]

Reminds me of how the Beefy Smash Doods do that with their Smash Review videos right before testing character tricks for themselves.

[@josephlockhart7059]

It would be kinda neat if there was a defensive variant of the charge attack. When a wagon or the unique crossbows with shields stay still it charges up and boosts their defense and maybe bonus damage or something while they stay still. Balance it by reducing unit response when the bar is full and they are stationary or something, implying they are bunkered down and need to pack up.

[@Jerad2142]

I liked the old slow fire better, felt more unique. I feel like a better solution might have been to fix the reload so when you told it to move it would reload (with reload time not just instant) the main projectile once more and restart the fire sequence from the beginning.

[@Narkogurio]

I mean the hussite wagons are meant to be basically a meat shield vs range units like the rams but they buff the units around them and are able to attack too

[@TheGahta]

Hope the better micro usability leads to seeing them more in high Level play

[@u9vata]

I think this is what it needs: - Pack/unpack so its more akin to a mobile strong tower and more bonuses when unpacked - More nerf than this while packed and walking I honestly think that could have be a very interesting unit that way if they change it that way.

[@Ironfist85hu1]

For Hussite wagons, they should make it stronger, add villagers to the animations while they are on the move, and redo it as some kind of a mini-trebouchet, with opening it up if you want to fire with them. :)

[@bastienbovard8159]

yeah you can fix the concept with a pack/unpack concept where you can shoot in both case, but unpacked deals more damage and it has the same rule fore being targeted as a building. This way an enemy unit would prioritize whatever you have behind the wagon

[@bfh529]

would like to have seen an analysis of how both versions do against large groups of units.

[@fireandworms]

Would be so much more interesting if it could unpack into an immovable horizontal wall that has the same effect as the wagon currently does (reduces damage taken for archers) but which has a much wider area of effect. As it is you need a lot of these wagons, which aren't all that great, to get the defensive effect.

[@amundskrullebakken8140]

I feel I wish you would've tested more the impact of secondary projectiles; compare the effectiveness of something like 20 Wagons vs a big mass of any army, compared to pre-patch

[@MegaGouch]

The changes sound good to me other than the damage output needs to be higher. Perhaps the projectiles ignoring armour would be the way to go, kinda like the old organ gun? I guess it's hard to balance it with it's unique abilities (that no one uses), in theory it would have similar damage output to the organ gun but it'd the be OP with it's additonal HP and other bonuses. Maybe it suits being a hard counter to ranged units (with low peirce armour) but needs to be protected from melee/high armour units?

[@Adam-oh1ds]

What about massed battles? Does the extra projectiles help at all in that sense?

[@1nown]

The proper role of the wagons should have been as mobile palisades that you can unpack similar to trebs to make ostensibly open maps more closed and support bohemian bonuses to ranged units. Give them high pierce and melee armour to physically block enemy melee units when used in a square formation, keeping the bonus damage weaknesses the unit has or tweaking a little to ensure there's at least a few other counters than just mangonels as was the case on initial release.

[@thomashightower7881]

Since the main projectile damage has been nerfed, I think a pack/unpack mechanic could be implemented where it functions as it is, but whenever it is unpacked and stationary, all of its projectiles do a full 11 damage. This also helps make up for the lower health from the patch.

[@saulstryver836]

It would be cool to see if they could garrison hand cannons increase speed and killing proficiency.

[@masonfreedman2722]

If they had an unpack, that did more damage and then packed they can still shoot but do less damage (as you suggested at the end) would be awesome

[@nikitakrylov7669]

Itd be cool if they could garrison like 2 pikes in castle and 3 in imperial to offset their weakness to cavalry, and then the cavalry receive damage every time they strike the wagon

[@warbrand2]

Would love for the elite version to have an unpack option, doing so makes it immobile and removes the sub projectiles but gives a second main projectile and +2 range.

[@injest1928]

They should make a packed and unpacked version. Packed moves at the speed it does now or slightly faster but is weaker and can't fire. Unpacked moves incredibly slowly, is stronger and can fire. It would also be able to garrison villagers and ranged units in the same way as a tower adding to the number of projectiles.

[@gamingpc5459]

Instead of the projectile block mechanic, I'd like to see them work like a mobile tower. What I mean by this is allowing archers/gunpowder units to fire from it (adding projectiles) and the hussite wagon only having 1 main projectile which is the big cannon ball. It would make it sort of historically accurate and also a lot of fun imo. Who remembers the battle fortress in ra2?

[@Davtwan]

If they do decide to add the packing mechanic, it may take a while to implement. They’ll have to add a new set of sprites after all.

[@darkdill]

I would've preferred it if the Hussite Wagon were a unit that, like the Trebuchet, required you to unpack it before it can attack. This would've been a lot more unique than making them similar to the Organ Gun, and would've fit the Bohemians' theme more. It'd also be very handy to let the player unpack some near a gold mine and provide some defense without needing to spend stone on towers.

[@Mut4ntG4m3r]

just seeing hussite wagons in a boxed formation and realizing that they were basically made for each other

[@bladactania]

I think having it need units inside to fire and basically functioning as a mobile tower that can pack and unpack while keeping the units inside would make it both a more interesting and a more historically accurate unit.

[@Mochido89]

When packed, fairly weak attack but mobile. When unpacked, range units can garrison, add attack/number of projectiles but it can't move. It would be very cool to see it in square formation.

[@darkranger116]

everyone's already said it in the comments and i agree, Hussite Wagons should be some kind of fortification. like a feature where the more archers you put it in, the slower it gets (opposite of a ram), until you max out its garrison and it makes the Hussite completely immobile. Or keep its fast speed, but putting 1 unit in its garrison makes it immobile and doubles its health or armor. Or something that can pack/unpack and be repaired by villagers.

[@elliejohnson2786]

I find it interesting that pack/unpack mechanics have always felt extremely weak to me in AoE2. Most of the strongest civs are cav civs, and cav is extremely fast and good at taking advantage of stationary units. Despite this, starcraft 2 has an extremely powerful unit called the siege tank, which uses pack/unpack mechanics. Starcraft 2 is also a much, much faster game (Average game length is less than 20 minutes, most games go around 10-15). There are also extremely fast units that are clearly faster than what a comparable unit in aoe2 would be like. All in all, I think if hussite wagons were to have a pack/unpack mechanic, it would have to either be fast and provide a minor bonus, to give a decisive advantage in certain situations but not take too long as to offset the advantage, OR have a long pack time that provides a major bonus. I'm leaning towards the latter, as this would allow a few key positioned packed wagons to provide serious defensive bonuses to open maps, helping them in those cases which not necessarily aiding them in long, drawn-out "mass wagon" strategies.

[@humanbass]

Sometimes the devs really feel clueless and lost about UU.

[@ettoreiseppi683]

I love the tactic of helebs, hussite wagon, arbalest and handcannoniers. Its a meatgrinder

[@asdt560]

While from a thematic standpoint the Hussite wagon would definitely make more sense if they used many of the ideas I have seen that lean towards a 'mobile fortification' style of unit, from a game-balance perspective I am really not sure if the Bohemians need another unit to enhance their death-ball compositions.

[@Nobbi_Habogs]

@SpiritOfTheLaw Can you please show me, where you find the exact patchnotes? I cant find a list with things they changed.

[@herotalib9556]

To me the use of hussite wagon mainly been vs low pierce armor unit like archer or running under tc to raid. I think this kinda makes it better for that. Ofcourse the unit still basically sucks and I would just make a few to annoy and distrub rather than use it as my main force. I think these changes won't change much.

[@ZlobitkoRostak-hp1en]

How can you raid under the TCs if the vills can take you down so easily?

[@Progeusz]

@@ZlobitkoRostak-hp1en you won't be sending 1 wagon vs 30 vills. 4 wagons oneshot vills with every volley and attack them from distance.

[@ShivaramakrishnaReddy]

It should be able to garrison other units like pikes or archers to increase its stats while being less mobile when units are in it.

[@TheKobasen]

So to sum it up, hussite wagon is basically when siege tower given the ability to attack but lose the ability to carrying units. A moving tower that weak against onager.

[@JoeLiningToolFilms]

Seems odd that they made it more like the organ gun. Would be cool if they let ranged units garrison inside and fire out or give it extra secondary projectiles.

[@mrhorney4317]

Stupid change is stupid

[@darthjump]

The hussite Wagon should be able to transform like Trebuchets do and become a Siege Wall where you can garrison canoneers.