Big Issue? Does the new 2024.5 Factory Edition KTM fix this?

The media narrative early on was the new 2023 KTM frames were too stiff and needed to be softer / more flexible. While there maybe some merit to that, the majority of riders, testers, and tuners have overlooked the main critical flaw in the 2023 frame design which is how tight the chain gets as the shock / swing arm compresses through its motion. The issue of the chain getting absurdly tight is the key contributor to why the frame "feels" stiff, it is because the shock is not able to be a responsive and plush as it can be. The shocks performance is heavily limited by the chain tensioning affect. Until this gets resolved there is a limit to how good the KTM WP shock will perform.
www.RideJBI.com

[@krazed0451]

Aside from the suspension performance, I can't imagine the strain this puts on the counter shaft bearing.

[@izom]

agree- i also would be more worried bout that

[@BjorkOffroad]

No doubt. Already have enough problems with countershafts

[@MOTOTIM408]

I think all of us would like to see a comparison to another bike like the Yamaha. I think that will give everyone a little more clarity on what you mean if that is the issue.

[@RideJBI]

Good idea. Its a comparison I have done with many other brand bikes since Ride JBI is commonly removing and remounting forks / shocks. Ill document the next few bikes that come through.

[@mindfxscience5653]

Always insightful and appreciated, thanks JB

[@RideJBI]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@rickshis2756]

Could you do this video again and adjust the chain tension to the recommended setting, I think it’s 65-70mm instead of using your four fingers. I set mine with a gauge and moved the rear wheel up and down in the travel like you did and my chain was no where near as tight as yours was. Not everyone had the same size fingers.

[@alexoreo718]

I pulled my swing arm bolt and performed this test at home. I loosened the chain until I had no binding through the stroke. It’s so loose lol. Good info ride JBI

[@RideJBI]

Please do a video and share.

[@tom97zr2]

You mean you pulled your shock bolt?

[@tombaguley6654]

That's why I have a chain tensioner for a KTM that removes the slack automatically but still allowing factory specifications to implemented. Look for it soon on the market.

[@someoneyouknow96]

Talk to JB this week. Cool dude. Took the time to answer my questions. Video was super insightful.

[@dirtberger4533]

Thank you for the great info 🏁🏁🏁👍. Ya that will be hard on a lot of things, gears, bearings, seals ect. Most of my life people and some shops run chains too tight already, so imagine the people that normally set their chains too tight. Hopefully there's a good solution.

[@Dirt_Bike_Dave]

Great explanation JB 😁👍

[@RideJBI]

thank you!

[@freddunbar]

Proper chain tension for all bikes is that they are just loose enough at the longest point(tightest) through the arc of the swingarm. I do believe that I remember that KTM brands sent out an update that the chain slack should be more than the manual stated.

[@RideJBI]

That is correct. While not shown in the video the chain was properly adjusted to 68-69mm slack before the shock was removed to be swapped. This is already more then the manual spec.

[@derekwoods8199]

Yep. The manual spec is 59-62mm or somewhere in that ballpark iirc. Been running mine 68-70.

[@cooperwolfe1731]

His chain was already so lose in its resting position though. Going from 4 fingers of slack to the chain being so tight the wheel barely spins is undoubtedly a flaw / mistake.

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

​@@cooperwolfe1731That's because he removed the shock. He took the measurements before he removed the shock. You don't have to do that. Just take the bottom shock bolt out and one link bolt and check it.

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

​@@RideJBIToo many people are too damn lazy to check for themselves. They keep saying but, but mah manual says...🤡. My 2023 300sx is good at 68mm, unlike your bike it does loosen up again past the halfway point.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

Good Job JB

[@georgecarmel6114]

Thanks for this info! I thought that with the countershaft and swingarm pivot not aligned would make this chain tension problem. KTM needs too make new engine cases to move transmission countershaft to re-align with the pivot point. Till then I'll stick with my 2021 chassis.

[@RideJBI]

You were ahead of the game with that insight. 👍

[@offroadrepairman]

I set chain slack with a wood block I cut to length. The length is from manual for each bike. I label them and keep them in tool box that I take to track. Iv lifted swing arm through travel without shock before and found a similar effect on a few of my older bikes from many years ago. Thus my reasoning for also running a loose chain and not using fingers as measuring device. Great advice your sharing with KZbin, thanks

[@moto3463]

If you don't use your fingers to check chain slack you don't know what you are doing.

[@wraith3951]

I’m curious to see how much shift goes into the countershaft bearing at full compression. Would have been nice to see a dial indicator on the countershaft sprocket at full compression to see how much the needle moved

[@RideJBI]

That would be very cool and interesting to see.

[@SteveMoto622]

Thanks for the info Vid No wonder why I'm going thew linkage bearings wtf

[@TwinTurboLsx]

Damn. I just bought a 24 250 SXF. I haven't adjusted mine since got it because it seemed right on but I can tell by looking at yours im going to need to loosen it up a lot to avoid that binding. That seems like a major flaw that will wear and or break something in no time.

[@Ty-no8lj]

I seen a bunch of guys on fb groups blowing apart their rear hubs

[@jimmyharris135]

65 mm no more than 70 mm and your good.

[@TwinTurboLsx]

@@jimmyharris135 but apparently that still binds according to this video.

[@motozz8258]

Just goes to show they really are polished turds and always have been its just great marketing with a appearance of quality to match. Made in China now too so can it get any worse , maybe not defiantly because they have beeen shocking for over a decade .

[@campb636]

Who says they’re made in China now?

[@stephenmiley5804]

Also any dirt or mud on chain will make it even tighter yet. On most bikes the longest distance is with swing arm straight and it gets looser down or up from straight. That's why there are rollers or sliders are above and below chain to take slack out as suspension moves.

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

💯

[@chadaccettura1993]

I wish you could have left the shock in place with no spring. It looks to me like there is excessive droop causing the chain to loosen excessively. I think you also should have set the chain to KTM specs so we see exactly what would have occurred. honestly once the chain tension was set in its operating stroke range it might have been OK?

[@tom97zr2]

He probably set the chain slack before removing the shock.

[@RideJBI]

In hindsight, yes I agree with you that would have been much more ideal. I have tried the stock settings. The chain tensioning affect was even worse. That’s how the very loose 68-69mm spec was determined. I kept loosening the chain until it felt reasonable when moving the swing arm through the motion. The chain has always been properly adjusted when testing this. If the shock was connected the motion would started in a tighter spot then shown. Linkage does not modify the relationship of the swing arm pivot and counter shaft sprocket.

[@gilesgreenaway5655]

😅❤yep,they set chain with wheel on wrong place You need to check chain tension throughout the stroke on all dirt bikes and adjust to suit.

[@tom97zr2]

@@gilesgreenaway5655 he did set the chain tension with the shock on. Then removed shock to check and do the video

[@DrivePhysio]

​@@tom97zr2 it didn't look that way. He showed 4 fingers (kinda smashed fingers, more like 3.5 fingers of chain gap) when the shock was off. When the shock is in place, and the swingarm is sitting in its normal resting position, the chain will be a little tighter than where it is sitting in the video. I'd venture a guess that using KTM's recommended measurement with the shock in place as normal wouldn't create this issue. I have not tried it on my own '24 350, but now I'm curious, and will pull the shock to test it.

[@tom97zr2]

Good video and test that everyone should do on every bike, especially because the rear sprocket size makes a difference! What size sprocket do you have on? Bigger rear sprocket requires a bigger chain slack measurement off the swingarm.

[@RideJBI]

The gearing is stock with a remapped ECU.

[@esmeben]

The chain has to be adjusted to the proper tension at full compression to take into account that's where it will be tightest usually you do the tension when the c/shaft sprocket, the s/arm pivot and the rear axle are all inline

[@mattstewart2750]

I wonder if that's all it is though. My 23 250xc (2stroke) has the same issue with the chain. I wonder if they moved that motor in the cradle as well, or if it isn't as bad on the 2 stroke frames. I still need to bring my shock down for that bladder kit, but wet dirt keeps it on my bike :)

[@vegardberve]

1. Thanks for showing this. 2. The chain on any kind of bike is usually tightest when the 3 points - CS, swingarm, rear axle - are in line. The bikes which are not like that is due to the design of the chain slider forcing the chain to not be in a straight line. Looks like the bottom of the chain tensioner here makes the chain tighter past the 3 points in line? As a suspension tuner, maybe you could remove most of the material on the bottom of the slider and do some testing?

[@gimbymx455]

Do you know if the 2024 exc models have this issue too since a lot of their updates came from the previous year mx model?

[@blarpieman]

What year bikes does this affect 23-25 xc sx bikes? Amazing vid. Maybe someone or you can produce a thinner chain slider at the front and taper it thicker to the back.

[@mxcollin95]

Hey you should check out the ATK anti-chain torque device made back in the 90’s I think. If might be worth it to create a setup like that device like that for modern bikes. Curious what you’d think about that anti-chain torque design.

[@RideJBI]

I am familiar with it. It’s cool and unique. There is merit to having some chain tensioning effect. All other brand have this effect and so does the previous gen KTM but not to this degree of resistance. Surely this isn’t ideal

[@Mineratron]

Interesting points… chain tension not a new tweaking option on/off road… but the points at the end I found the most intriguing. Could they go chasing after other areas to avoid changing this? Guess without some major modifications to the motor placement and dynamics… they may have to. Interesting to see how the development goes. David Knight liked the revised rate K-Tech linkage which gives a bit more feeling… I’m not as fast as anyone complaining about its characteristics or Knighter… I just love my 23 300SX… feels like a different level to my 15 300EXC which is a decent bike too. 😄

[@hoerenj0ng141]

chain tension as demonstrated here was never intended as a tweaking option, it is simply too tight as shown. It would be dumb for a number of reasons: it changes within one race as chain stretches, it changes with sand/mud getting in there, and not least of all you are very close to blowing out the hub, there is almost no margin for error. The real way anti-squat comes in is through chain torque and real wheel drive extending the swingarm under acceleration.

[@derekwoods8199]

@@hoerenj0ng141that is correct. Anti squat derives from the chassis geometry. I think it was marketing fluff to attempt to mask an odd or unintended design after they went to production with the new bike. Remember, this one was designed during Covid, so it’s easy to speculate the r&d and design phases weren’t gone through as deliberately as normal.

[@neizpiez]

Just tested on 24’ 300 xc. No drastic change in chain tension like displayed in video. Adjusted per book spec on loose end (58-61mm). Friend tested on 23’ 450 xcf, and same result as me.

[@RideJBI]

Good input. Thanks for sharing. Can you post a video of your results?

[@grutzmac]

post a vid for us homie!

[@esdrehtsich9289]

@@RideJBIDid you have your chain tension at 58mm-61mm when you were filming the video ?

[@charlesdufour3676]

2024 300xcw with pds chain tension is 55 to 58 in the book i follow the book and everything is fine i don’t have this problem at all

[@onthethrottle7104]

@@charlesdufour3676 Good to know since I have the same bike! Thanks buddy

[@hondamad223]

@ridejbi any chance you tried running a bigger counter shaft sprocket? If so what were the results

[@RideJBI]

Not at this time. The stock gearing with the Twisted Development mapping performs very well. But I understand your proposed solution to lessen this effect. It is surely worth a try.

[@jakestrom4906]

Correct me if I'm wrong.If the motor is tilted backwards in the frame,the outgoing shaft is moved UPPWARDS from the swingaxel and that is what caused the problem.The chain is hitting the underside of the swingarm.

[@RideJBI]

Hello and thanks for the comment. Looking at the left side of the bike the motor was rotated clockwise. This would move the valve cover away from the front wheel more towards the back. Following this rotation arc the counter shaft would move down and away from the swing arm pivot.

[@jakestrom4906]

If the center of the rotation arc is the swingarm pivot,the sprocket must go up.

[@GOTDRAGONS]

Does this go for PDS too?

[@SpeedDemonExpress]

Check for yourselves. Take the bottom shock bolt and one link bolt out. You don't need to remove the shock. My 2023 300sx needed 68mm. Ignore what the manual says.

[@ufrozoo]

It looks like you adjusted the chain with the swing arm articulated past where the shock would let it go. If the shock was connected, and the chain adjusted from that point, I think your test would turn out different?

[@RideJBI]

Yes I understand that. The chain was properly slacked before I started on swapping the shocks. The video idea came to me during the shock change and therefore it starts at this point with the shock already removed.

[@tkmotorworks8199]

TheShock being connected or not has no effect of the arc of the swing arm pivot off the counter shaft position. What this video show is a design flaw in the chassis where the chain gets tighter past the dead center line of travel, this binds the entire chassis up under deep suspension strokes and causes tension in the frame and countershaft bearing in the engine

[@dontbeoffended486]

Damn good looking bike

[@Joe-pb3lx]

Was this the reason they were snapping chains a few years ago during races?

[@rebelliontotyrantsisobedie5602]

Does anyone know if this effects the 2024 KTM XCW bike as well?

[@lostinpa-dadenduro7555]

Can you make a video of the same test with a Yamaha to show everyone?

[@RideJBI]

I’ll get around to showing what other brand bikes look like with the same demo.

[@hoerenj0ng141]

You are explaining it totally wrong. The anti-squat is not supposed to come from chain tension increasing through suspension travel, but rather through engine torque on the chain pulling the wheel towards suspension extension. Obviously KTM doesn't want you to have the chain this tight, if you are off just by a little you will blow out the rear hub.

[@campb636]

So why is it then?!

[@mcgman8058]

You will get more anti squat by raising the swingarm pivot point. this is an adjustment in world superbikes. I dont know what KTM did here with their recommended chain tension. if it was me I would loosen up that chain an additional 10mm's to start.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

i thought those planes flying over were flying over me.....until i removed my headphones

[@RideJBI]

Hahaha. No it’s at the shop. A small airport is nearby.

[@greygoose9577]

My guess is that they haven't changed it on the 24.5 models. The top engine mounts of the new factroy editions with the outcut are a powerpart for the the 23 or 24 model so atleast the engine mounts are the same.. thanks for the video JBI!

[@RideJBI]

Unsure. Hopefully it was resolved or partially fixed.

[@joshualyon512]

@@RideJBI If they moved the engine back 2* and this in turn moved the countershaft down causing the binding issue, I wonder what amount of slack would render this a fix? Maybe a quick test to see how much more slack it would take it make it feel "normal'? thx!

[@santanikx9]

so it wears out the output shaft bearing way more, thats so dumb

[@halvorsonmx]

so easily oerlooked. wow great video! ya i wanna see another bike ran through the stroke like that. but I can totally see how that would affect handling big time.

[@charlesdufour3676]

Whitout the shock the swingarm is not lower? I guess your 4 finger mesurement is not correct like that? Maybe i’m wrong to

[@michalbiajgo_roascrafters]

Why do you tension without the shock?

[@RideJBI]

Hello and thanks for the comment. This has been explained in previous comments

[@danarrington2224]

I wish you had shown how loose the chain would need to be so that it doesn't affect the swing arm at all. I'm curious how much more you would have to loosen it and what that would look like with the swingarm all the way down

[@jimmyharris135]

65-68mm no more than 70mm!

[@danarrington2224]

@@jimmyharris135 You misunderstand what I'm asking...

[@johndepperschmidt8984]

Great video. We were discussing this today on Thumpertalk. Even with chain slack, the design causes the suspension to get stiffer under power compared to a normal countershaft position.

[@RideJBI]

Thank you! This "issue" does affect all of todays popular bikes but not to this degree. This is too much and hindering the bike.

[@johndepperschmidt8984]

@@RideJBI Oh yeah, KTM messed with chain torque and got it wrong. Either reposition the engine, or even replacing the chain slider with a thin piece of metal at the pivot point, or even using a larger countershaft sprocket and smaller rear sprocket would get the chain off of the 5mm higher fulcrum point.

[@hustleburry]

Same thing on the gas gas? I was thinking about picking up a factory edition.

[@robclark3046]

Was that chain set with shock in or as was in video

[@robclark3046]

Just seen answer on another comment

[@kanonymous6414]

So did KTM fix the issue on the 2024 model, or is there an aftermarket fix?

[@onthethrottle7104]

This guy articulated the issue on this set up absolutely perfect! Well done Ride JBI tech. Well done!

[@ultimateweekendwarrior6437]

i wonder if this is why i just bent a rear sprocket

[@FalseHope61]

I have a 2021 and the suspension doesn’t feel plush at in the shock. It’s crazy harsh and kicks way too much

[@TeamStruggleBunny]

I've heard 70mm is the amount of chain slack needed to not bind. I'd rather run a bit loose than crack my case as tight chain tried to rip the counter shaft out over and over, never mind shock performance.

[@Runk3lsmcdougal]

Would bigger or smaller sprockets help in anyway?

[@ZakKrenzer]

Maybe this is why the XCWs (released later in the year) had a larger CS sprocket than the XCs but effectively the same gearing.

[@Runk3lsmcdougal]

@@ZakKrenzer man I set my chain slack to 70mms and took the shock and linkage off and moved it up and down in the stroke and it didn't bind at all, was still loose. This video is over exaggerating, he has to be at like 60mm slack. I'm not even worried about it anymore

[@dieterkempa8478]

That back wheel is hanging exageratedly lower than it should because the shock is not connected. Surely the chain would be much looser still if adjusted when the chain is tightest (with rider weight) or with 4 fingers whith the shock connected while the bike is on the stand hanging the back wheel.

[@RideJBI]

You are correct. I agree. However the chain slack was properly set before the shock was removed and while the bike was fully assembled. The video just starts at the point with the shock off in order to make a quick demonstration.

[@Ty-no8lj]

Glad this video is out. I have the 2022.5 250sxf FE and people say my chain is loose. I run 67-69mm of slack. The manuals recommendation of 58-61 is TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT. I get a bunch of chain slap with no load but I aint blowing my hubs apart or wrecking my countershaft bearings.

[@coldsteeloffroad]

With shock installed, how loose is the chain @full droop if you set chain tension while @race sag to have a little slack; just enough to allow the chain not to bind @full stuff? If it's acceptable & not gonna' throw the chain, put it back on the stand to remeasure & you have the real proper slack#. Problem solved 🤷🏼‍♂️ I've learned even working on helicopters, the manual isn't always right & you have to reserve a little skepticism to be smarter than the pub when the need arises. If chain's too loose, pre-tensioned roller would also work (until packed w/mud). I'll shut up & go back to coloring now 😂

[@RideJBI]

Good insight. And I agree with you. Having learned about this back in December 2022 and have tried many different slacks and remedies I found 68-69mm to be the sweet spot. Not loose enough to be concerned of derailment even thought it looks visually loose but loose enough to let the swing arm move through its motion. The chain was properly adjusted to 68-69mm of slack before I started on the shock removal and swap.

[@coldsteeloffroad]

@RideJBI 🤔 how about running a larger countershaft sprocket & driven sprocket, then revisiting the optimum slack measurement? Not the ideal solution by any means, but may help. I think. Possibly maybe.

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

⁠@@RideJBI I was talking my uncle Ron and he said 69mm slack is exactly correct

[@DDRDK]

For all that is holy.... the manual is always correct when it comes to aviation... dont catch yourself some jail time lol.

[@coldsteeloffroad]

@DDRDK I'm pretty sure you're joking, but non-aviation peeps probably won't see it that way. For the layman reading this, there's such a thing as a Technical Publication Deficiency Report (TPDR) for those exact cases when the pubs are wrong & need reviewed for correction. From an Avionics POV, this happens more than a guy would think, especially wiring schematics. You're right, though. Jail time & lives 100% on the line.

[@joereed4098]

Did they have this problem on the 2023 two-stroke

[@RideJBI]

That is a very good question. I don't know. Havent not have any complete KTM two strokes lately just a lot of suspension.

[@EricCogburn]

I’d be interested in this too. I had a 23 300xc and could not make it work like I wanted. Trades for a 23 350xcf and felt much better. I wonder if the countershaft location is significantly different between the two.

[@kosditrade]

But i think your measurements of the free movement of the chain tension are not correct. Your rear wheel is more down now then when you have rear shock connected. You need to measure at higher wheel/swing arm point.

[@RideJBI]

Hello and thanks for the comment. This has been addressed in previous comments.

[@spookyjase3082]

There’s zero issue with this setup. Have 2 - 23’s both have over 200 hours, zero problems with anything you’re speaking of. I’ve never heard of anybody having any issues with any of this until you.

[@RideJBI]

Hello, happy holidays and thanks for the comment. I appreciate your feedback. Understandably I disagree.

[@hustleburry]

You’ve rode over 400 hours on 2023s?! Jeez I’m not riding ebough

[@spookyjase3082]

@@hustleburry 2 boys. GNCC’s, locals, indoors, local AX, sprint enduros. Etc not very hard to get 200.

[@hustleburry]

Nice work!

[@spookyjase3082]

@@hustleburry 2 boys. GNCC’s, locals, indoors, local AX, sprint enduros. Etc not very hard to get 200.

[@TheFcuddy]

KTM pubs are jacked. Any idea if this is a problem on the 24’ PDS bikes? I better go pull my shock right now…

[@RideJBI]

Unsure about the PDS bikes.

[@rebelliontotyrantsisobedie5602]

Did you unbolt your shock..what did you find for needed slack?

[@kosditrade]

300 SX have same issue? thanks

[@RideJBI]

Yes, it utilizes the same swingarm as the other SX/SX-F model bikes.

[@moto3463]

I saw that on sexton riding the new ktm the chain looked like it was wrong or odd..then I got suggested this video!

[@tombaguley6654]

Many Riders have problems with getting the chain adjusted right. I admit I've had it too tight before! This video shows it adjusted pretty close to the 70 mm that suggested by the factory. Just imagine what it's going to do to the chain, the sprocket, and the suspension movement with it adjusted a little too tight! Wow what a mess it will cause! So he has a valid point!

[@Joe-pb3lx]

off-topic: i put a 19 inch rear rim on my xr200......that was the hardest rear tire i ever put on......everyone was telling me to go to the18 inch, maybe i should of listened

[@campb636]

The 24.5’s are out now….did they resolve this issue or not??

[@RideJBI]

It’s being advertised as a new updated swing arm design. Have not had one at the shop yet to verify in person.

[@campb636]

So wait….are you telling me that a 2024 XCF 350 factory edition will have this chain tension issue?!

[@reineherrera8897]

The recommended range is 58mm-61mm however, the revised recommendation is 65mm measured at the back of the chain slider. The finger rule is the most inconsistent and unreliable method as for obvious reasons, every one’s hands are a different size. And as I read through the comments I see that you are running 68mm-69mm. Is that your own number or is it what KTM has actually recommended?

[@Ty-no8lj]

67-69 is what I ended up at also on my 23 250. I adjusted it until I was happy then took the measurement. And as you said about the finger rule is true, I now know "Proper" chain slack for me is a tight 4 fingers at the back of the slider and use that as my reference

[@reineherrera8897]

@@Ty-no8lj and no issues with derailment I’m guessing.

[@rebekahfrench5747]

Your angle of the dangle does not drop counter shaft down 5mm rather would lift it in relation to main pivot.. Only way for it to drop is case would have to be cast different..

[@RideJBI]

Hello, happy holidays and thanks for the comment. I appreciate your insight and perspective. However geometry disagrees with your statement. I believe you are misunderstanding the direction the motor was rotated.

[@rebekahfrench5747]

@@RideJBI go back n listen to what you said rotated back 2 degrees lifts counter shaft..

[@RideJBI]

If we are looking at the left side of the bike the motor was rotated clockwise in the frame. The center point of the rotation is the center point of the motor. We can visualize this by imagining the counter shaft being located on the “3” of a clock ⏰ . When the clock hand moves clockwise it makes an arc going down and away from the “3” to the “4” The counter shaft followed a similar arc / path.

[@rebekahfrench5747]

@@RideJBI wrong.. counter shaft rises in relation to swing arm pivot when rotating engine in said direction anyone can see that basic geometry.

[@rebekahfrench5747]

@@RideJBI read first note. If cases were cast different would be only way to drop counter shaft.. basic geometry dictates a rise..

[@cliftonsr]

I’m keeping my 2022 KTM SixDays 500 EXC-F

[@fuellerr]

Awesome video, crazy how KTM can design a bike and then do something Dumb like this

[@chestertownelectric6290]

The manual says to adjust slack to 2.3-2.4” with the bike on a stand and the shock extended. In the video, the shock bolt has been removed, allowing the rear wheel to move much lower. Setting chain slack in this position is wrong and is leading you to an incorrect conclusion. Set the chain slack with the shock connected, then remove the shock bolt and swing it through its travel and you will see that the chain never gets fully tight.

[@motourge3061]

I'm glad someone else caught this. Not a true evaluation doing it his way...

[@RideJBI]

You are correct. I agree with you and the manual. The chain slack was not adjusted when the shock was removed. The chain slack was properly adjusted to 68-69mm while the bike was fully assembled & before the shock was being swapped out. This spec is actually more slack then the manual.

[@cheto2952]

Dude thanks I'll sleep better knowing this. My sleeping problems have been cured. Alleluia

[@jasonvanrooy6895]

That can lead to case damage from pressure …

[@charlesclapper8982]

Is this why they stall so much unless clutch is all way in😊

[@Joe-pb3lx]

i cant see how that would be worth what they were trying to achieve ......supposedly its fixed now, i wonder what was done?

[@1176hambone]

is 65mm of chain slack not enough?

[@RideJBI]

65mm works but is even tighter then shown in the video. My preferred spec is 68-69mm slack which is shown in the video. I learned about this in December 2022 and since have tried many different slacks and remedies. None of which improved anything.

[@1176hambone]

This is horrifying. @@RideJBI

[@andrewdynes5300]

Without the shock installed, the swingarm is way lower than it would normally be, throwing your measurements off. Need to block up the rear wheel for this demonstration.

[@andrewdynes5300]

Also, the swingarm pivot shaft passes through the engine cases. Rotating the engine back would move the sprocket UP, not down. They would have had to change the cases to lower the sprocket, or use eccentric bushings. Not a frame or swingarm issue.

[@RideJBI]

Hello and thanks for comment. The chain was properly adjusted before the shock swap was started.

[@RideJBI]

Respectfully I disagree and so does geometry. The engine was rotated among its center point which is not fixed or mounted. The front of the motor was rotated further back away from the front wheel. Here is another source (MXA) sharing the same info which they get directly from KTM. motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-race-test-2023-ktm-450sxf/

[@andrewdynes5300]

@@RideJBI To clarify, I don't dispute the sprocket is lower, just that it was achieved by a change to the engine cases, not by engine rotation or chassis change. The swingarm, frame, and engine are all pinned together by the swingarm pivot axle, which passes through all three. The relationship is fixed. Rotating the engine back (all else equal) RAISES the sprocket (relative to the swingarm). The sprocket was lowered by changing the location of the pivot passthrough hole in the engine cases. The case part numbers are different, and you can even see it in the images side by side. If we were both sitting at the same CAD computer, I could sketch it up in about 5 min and show you. Unfortunately not something we can do in the KZbin comments section, haha. As a lifelong gearhead, machinist, CAD modeler, and mechanical engineer, I've found that the various automotive/cycle performance magazine writers aren't always the most technically knowledgeable, and print an awful lot of misinformation. This is especially true of many of the niche-brand muscle car mags. MXA is certainly guilty of plenty.

[@RideJBI]

@@andrewdynes5300 Thank you for the clear and thought out response. I appreciate it. Collectively working together is how we best solve issues. Your comment helps paint a clearer picture. I appreciate that and you taking the time to share it. Seriously, I am not being sarcastic. Maybe we can collab on a fix / improvement. Doing so would be so helpful. From what I have heard this has been resolved on the Factory Race Team, source was people from the race team at my shop.

[@racetronics]

Gonna break some countershafts or wheel hubs.

[@nolandenham2509]

Is my '17 husky fx450 known to have this issue?

[@Runk3lsmcdougal]

No, only the new chassis's

[@RideJBI]

Hello and thanks for the comment. All bikes have this effect to a certain degree. The “issue” on the 23 models is how much more of an effect it is compared to previous models and other brand bikes.

[@ddrowdy2]

They are intentionally using the chain as a suspension component? Yeh that sounds right.

[@jimmyharris135]

just run 65 mm and no more than 70 mm of chain slack measured right behind the slider. problem solved.

[@deanwaring6100]

That's crazy... it will cause so many issues 😊

[@mpichon2532]

Looks like we need to bring back the old 1970 spring loaded chain tensioner. And they really should bring back the full floating brake system which could be done on a disc. The problem now is coming into deep breaking bumps you're pretty much going to a zero suspension action due to the disc brake not floating now with even more resistance due to a tight chain. How much slack has to be in it to get the chain not to bind? I think I would be getting it to that point and then figuring out a fabricate a spring-loaded tensioner on the back like a old days bike.

[@RideJBI]

imagine a tension spring system underneath the chain slider.

[@jacobwestcott4536]

That’s ridiculous, way to put the engineers at ktm on blast, thats an awful lot of money to have some rinky shit like this. Dam

[@grutzmac]

I bet they do nothing… seriously.

[@RideJBI]

I’ve heard it’s been resolved on the race team side and that stuff eventually becomes production. But when is the question.

[@grutzmac]

how loose could you realistically run a chain on a trail bike? would this help the issue to some degree? this is kinda crazy something like this made it to production. @@RideJBI

[@QUADXTV]

All these guys who bought 23’s doubting the video 😂

[@barkeep25]

That can't be good for the transmission

[@rokuabtor6834]

Wow, that's tighter all the way to the top! Hmm...

[@jeanlavallee2887]

If KTM would use a proper linkage ratio, they wouldn't have to monkey around with countershaft location.

[@RideJBI]

That would be another solid piece of the puzzle being improved. KTM is getting very close to have a great stock bike. I’m excited to the company and their progress.

[@christopherbrunning7671]

So has KTM fixed the issue with the new factory edition?

[@leethomas556]

I think the Honda 450 is guilty of this too

[@jeffcrawford9803]

Do you have a true measurement for chain slack

[@RideJBI]

In this video the chain is at 68-69mm of slack. The spec is 64-68mm. At 64mm it’s grossly tight.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

think .... running shoes from reebok with that sole that compresses.....that piece of plastic under the swingarm where it protects the swingarm from getting worn out by the chain.....maybe make that like a reebok running shoe sole? @@RideJBI

[@jimnelson585]

My manual says 58-61MM so that is what I go with. I trust the engineers who designed the bike for that spec.

[@jimnelson585]

@@RideJBIwhere did you get the 64-68 spec? I havent seen KTM put out bulletin on update

[@qdogbenson3112]

​@@jimnelson585I trust Pfizer.

[@victorgailums6784]

Not just a performance issue but more importantly, it will destroy hub and countershaft bearings.

[@bobhannah9944]

Does Chase know this!

[@user-fz8fy4zl1c]

Im blue tru n tru,built to last!

[@RideJBI]

Ride JBI loves the Yamahas. 2023/24 YZF suspension testing and development videos coming soon.

[@YASHA7FOLD]

Finish installing your suspension components then lets talk chain tension settings. Sheesh.

[@RideJBI]

Hello, happy holidays and thanks for the comment. I understand your comment and agree with what you are implying. The chain slack was properly set before the shock change was started.

[@alfredk471]

That KTM R&D department thought this was a good idea is baffling. The strain on the chain will drastically reduce chain life and surely even the rear sprocket and then there's the counter-shaft bearing and the wheel bearings. And all the above problems will be exaggerated by muddy conditions. Surely the new KTMs are more prone to chain breakage?

[@alexkevan3887]

I had 120 hours on my stock 2023 300xc chain, and never once lubed it. I changed it out because I was doing a long 300km race and was a bit self-conscious about it. I don't jump the bike, like a motocross rider.

[@panic-revv85]

Dude, youve got another 3" of travel without the shock mounted. So setting your chain slack without the shock mounted is a very exaggerated demomstration.

[@RideJBI]

Thanks for the comment and you are correct if that were the case. However I did not set / adjust the chain slack when the shock was off. The chain slack was properly adjusted to 68-69mm slack while the bike was fully assembled before shock removing this shock to swap it.

[@panic-revv85]

@RideJBI so it the previous design is 5mm lower wouldn't that exaggerate even more? I haven't spent much time on the older machine. But, every bike I've owned has done the same. I've noticed that on a few different yz models while waiting on suspension work. The new frame uses a new hollow upper shock mount, and narrower hardware. Chase and AP are running the new frame, Husky guys on the "old" design.

[@jeffdellibovi2845]

That put a lot of stress on the counter shaft

[@coldsteeloffroad]

​@@panic-revv85 old design is 5mm higher, not lower.

[@RideJBI]

@@panic-revv85 hello. The 2023 motor was rotated from front to back 2 degrees in the frame which lowered the counter shaft approx 5mm in reference to the swing arm pivot. This is in comparison the previous 16-22 model bikes.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

i like when my bike squats under acceleration......

[@donaldblank8873]

You can't adjust the chain until the bike is sitting in its natural position it has to have a Shock and linkage hooked up and be off the stand.

[@RideJBI]

Yes, I agree with you. Again, even though the video starts at this point does not mean that is when / where the chain slack was adjusted. It was not. The chain slack was properly adjusted when the bike was fully assembled. As you describe.

[@chrischachooga9192]

If you are not an engineer it might be better to have an engineer explain rather than show what you think is wrong. There is nothing wrong here. When the swingarm is moved to the point where the axle bolt, pivot bolt and countershaft are in perfect alignment, this is the longest dimension the chain will experience. Just make sure the chain has a touch of slack in that position. Trying to use a finger method with the swingarm dropped on a stand is useless and unrealistic. Ive seen folks argue this many times but its simply because they dont know what they dont know.

[@chrischachooga9192]

Oh yeah, just because someone wrote it in the ktm manual doesnt mean its correct. Those folks have made many mistakes along the way.

[@RideJBI]

Hello. Thanks for watching and the comment. You are correct. The chain tensioning effect is not new or isolated to this model / brand bike. The degree to which this effect happens is much more than other brand bikes and even the previous gen KTM. Surely this is not the ideal design or effect KTM was going for.

[@Joe-pb3lx]

MXA says it rides awesome now.....cant wait to see sexton race it.......maybe he will kick butt