BIG TrueNAS Scale Update - Extend VDEVs, Docker support, and more

[@Jims-Garage]

You beat me to it! I just upgraded the other day and all going swimmingly - great video.

[@NightHawkATL]

I updated last night and I am really happy about the new changes. Gonna eventually move my Arr stack to TrueNAS to make it simpler without having to use SMB shares.

[@StHabibiJohnsonAhmedFranklin]

I broke my ARR so will rebuild but using Docker!

[@stokley121]

I’ve been using this for a few days (RC.2 & now stable), and I am using Docker Compose all via CLI using VS Code Remote SSH extension like I would any other VM. No issues so far.

[@GrishTech]

Don’t forget that truenas gui is a middleware between you and the os. If you do an os upgrade, whatever was not via the gui is at risk of being nuked away. The os is an appliance and is not made to be directly modified or interacted with.

[@maxinemn]

That's good to hear. Means I can migrate from a dedicated docker VM and not interrupt my workflow!

[@stokley121]

@@GrishTech definitely something I considered. However, this approach is storing container files on a standard dataset and leveraging the underlying Docker engine. An update would not destroy standard files on a pool, and Docker engine should remain unless they switch away from it. Worst case, containers are easy to migrate. You could actually argue that this bypasses the middleware layer which is where pretty much all app related issues came from in the past, since you are at the mercy of what the middleware provides. I updated from RC.2 to stable without issue so that’s at least a good sign!

[@GrishTech]

@@stokley121 yep. You can just docker-compose up if they get nuked away and be back in business after the image pull

[@stokley121]

@@GrishTech yep! I’m hoping it works out because this is my end solution for a hyperconverged homelab.

[@chad2304]

“I’m…I’m kinda slow” 😂 I feel you. It’s nice when things are made simple in UI. Otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose.

[@Yuriel1981]

Getting ready to upgrade. Then decide where I'm going to take my NAS. Def gotta watch Tom's video, only caught the end of it when it was live. The change to docker has me a little worried since I have multiple working apps running but it is also exciting with many more apps being able to be hosted with Docker. Past the switch over pain I guess. Probably going to upgrade this weekend.

[@KeithWeston]

Quick and mostly easy upgrade from previous version. The k->doc migration went without a hitch. NFS flaked and had to be turned off and on again after boot, but other than that: smooth sailing. Great video about a good and important update.

[@darkkknight74]

Awesome coverage I switched to Electric also only issue I has was Tailscale not converting correct.... Great Job Brett as always love your content

[@Heimdallar]

Swapping out k8s for Docker is a good move, but not because it's finicky but because it's just not the right tool for the job. I know the "scale" idea is some sort of a one-stop shop hyperconverged solution, but they are miles away from that goal. Having simple docker compose on top of a nas to enhance certain file sharing features is great (think Minio, maybe a container registry, photo app, jellyfin, ... ).

[@joelv4495]

Absolutely. The bastardized kubernetes setup was such a pain to use that I switched away from the OS entirely. I might give it another look now...

[@O4KAST]

​@@joelv4495which os did you move to? Unraid?

[@ewenchan1239]

I've tried the 24.10 since it was a beta, then RC2, and then also just recently updated it to the production release as well. Granted, I'm not really doing a heck of a lot with it right now as my deployment was originally pretty much solely intended to just test how ZFS snapshots work, and more specifically, how much space it takes up, how to try and predict how much space it would take up, and also how the REFER space (for said snapshots) works. Didn't know about the netdata option, so that's pretty cool. Might play around with it some more. That's a TBD.

[@scottywed]

Thanks for the video. I will be loading this up next week.

[@cameronfrye5514]

Thanks for the heads up. I had troubles with RC2 and rolled back. Have to give it another try since there is now a stable release.

[@frederichardy8844]

Great new version. But just for information the vdev extention is a minute only if there's no data in the vdev... When the vdev is full of data (and usually that's when you want to add a disk...) it is much longer (like a resilver a least...) and you have to use some tool to rewrite all your files to take advantage of all the new free space, otherwise you lose a small part of it.

[@frederichardy8844]

for example about 4 days ago I started an expansion from 8 to 9 drives on a 89% capacity used raidZ2 of 18TB SAS 12G drive, my current status is: expand: expansion of raidz2-0 in progress since Mon Nov 25 18:07:49 2024 27.4T / 117T copied at 98.0M/s, 23.55% done, 11 days 00:42:58 to go It on a HPE DL380 Gen9 dual E5-2640 v4 xeon and 256GB of RAM. The 98.0M/s is slow because with a resilver it's from 250M/s to 110M/s

[@captteemo9133]

​@@frederichardy8844 Thanks so much for the information! :) 15 days? :o Can I use the NAS via smb etc. meanwhile?

[@captteemo9133]

I expand from 5 to 6 drives, 20TB each, Z2 around 50% used

[@captteemo9133]

Do I have to have the GUI open or will it proceed in the background (sorry if this is a stupid question, I am new to all that)

[@captteemo9133]

What do I need to use to rewrite all my files?

[@suntoryjim]

Ooh, I can get off of RC2 now. Thanks for the notification.

[@sloraris]

I'm curious as to the issues you've been getting with VM's on TrueNAS. I agree that Proxmox is way better; as it should be, considering it's dedicated to being a hypervisor while TrueNAS is, well, a NAS. Due to hardware constraints I have my heaviest VMs running on my TrueNAS box (it's the only chassis in my rack with adequate room to fit the cooler for my 5950X). I've had nothing but success doing things this way! Great video though, been waiting for 24.10!

[@BrentLeVasseur]

Considering you get all this for free, this is awesome!

[@jcreek23]

I've been using the virtualisation for month with windows and Ubuntu VMs - I've had no issues other than once having to reboot the server to get a USB blu ray drive to pass through

[@haiironezumi]

As a new TrueNAS user starting from Electric Eeel, coming from last using Ubuntu Server 18.04 - the Apps installation definitely needs some polish, especially for something like the *arr suite of apps that should really be put together. Things like having the network ports used be the standard ports found in all documentation of the apps would be a good start. Having an option to "save configuration locally" and, by default, creating a "pool/config/app_name" dataset tree (where only the lowest required layers are created) would be awesome. Some more information/clarity on what settings do from the help hovers would also be welcome. Don't just phrase the existing text slightly differently.

[@Lunolux]

i have planned to build my new NAS for almost 4 months now and not yet finish, i installed trunas scale on baremetal, but i didnt like it, so i install proxmox and then use a VM to install Trunas, it's on my list to "finish" it's cool that it use docker, people are probably more familiar with docker than kubernete thx for the video

[@demanuDJ]

You should mention that adding drive to existing pool will not expand current data to new drive unless it will be rewritten. Only new/rewritten data will be spreaded into new drives

[@Austin-xx2nu]

I thought it did. I swear that's what I saw when watching one of the videos where the developers broke down how it worked.

[@olywier13]

.

[@captteemo9133]

​@@Austin-xx2nuAny news here?

[@captteemo9133]

Any news here?

[@Austin-xx2nu]

@@captteemo9133 The way I understood what the developer in the video was saying is that the data would be spread out to include the new disk when you expand the dev. (In fact there was a whole long section on how they made that work without storing any data in only memory and not assuming the drives weren't completely full. TLDR they used a reserved section of the disk that was marked for the boot loader, but never actually used for that as a scratch workspace to temporarily load the first but of data on) There was a downside that because the data was originally setup to use one less disk you won't get quite the same performance as you would if originally set up the array with all the drives, but there should be equal or better performance from what you had before you expanded.

[@BrianMarshall148]

Upgraded OK, no major issues. 1. Summary Widgets for my Tank01 & Tank 02 didnt populate with info, so i deleted them and recreated them, made layout nicer,,, then they worked fine. 2. Apps - Tailscale > Just said 'Deploying' and didnt start. I generated new AUTH key at Tailscale and it worked immediately. Everythijng looks good. Note: I also get a message > "New ZFS version or feature flags are available for pool 'APPS_SSD'. Upgrading pools is a one-time process that can prevent rolling the system back to an earlier TrueNAS version. It is recommended to read the TrueNAS release notes and confirm you need the new ZFS feature flags before upgrading a pool." i didnt update it but i saw in the shell that some new features may require the pool flags updating to use., (zpool status). It also mentioned Bootpool, but reading forums... lets say that was a concern for many users. i just left it for now.

[@BrianMarshall148]

NOTE: I upgrade the Pools only from the TrueNAS GUI (NOT the shell) - All ok!

[@blindtechh]

Yes!! I do have problems about apps not wanting to run considering that I hate Kubenetes, docker is SO MUCH BETTER!

[@ewenchan1239]

To install the Ubuntu VM, you need to install it with safe graphics (or skip the GUI altogether for the install, and just use the text-based installer). But I think that's more of problem with their VNC viewer than TrueNAS (although on Proxmox, the noVNC viewer works just fine with installing Ubuntu via the "normal" GUI installer, so not really sure what's up with that).

[@stocky9803]

So im curious here The main selling point of Unraid is the fact you can mismatch drives etc are we basically seeing something similar now with TrueNAS? It seems to me with ZFS and vDevs we are basically accomplishing the same thing on truenas as we were on unraid

[@aaron57422]

I don't think we're going anything new in terms of mismatched drive support. RAIDZ expansion is an excellent new feature but it still wants you to expand with the same size drive. You can't add a smaller one, and if you add a larger one any extra space will not be useable.

[@BillyDickson]

Also updated last night , no problem, going to keep my arr stack where it is at the moment though. 🙂

[@JasonsLabVideos]

AWESOME video sir !!

[@NaviUpgrade]

Can you teach us Portainer? I followed your guide for TrueCharts years ago but we all know how that went... New to Docker so any help would be greatly appreciated!

[@deechvogt1589]

Neato thanks Brett!

[@esrevinu.]

I feel like STORJ is meant to be pronounced like "Storge",... storage, with out the A. No one seems to say it that way, so I often wonder if Im crazy, or just the only one seeing where they tried to be "clever" with the name haha

[@gswhite]

Excellent overview thanks. Would have been great to show kubernetes to docker conversion? They started it was seamless conversion from one to the other. Also can you create different docker networks?

[@UnknownMoses]

If you can expand a vdev does that mean you can also add a parity drive to so go from raidz2 to raidz3?

[@phillee2814]

No, you can't change parity levels in either direction.

[@june5646]

...So I bought unraid only for the expansion fact of its volume manager and now this...*sighs in IT Storage Manager

[@dumpsterdiner]

thx for the video 👍🏽

[@mantisthefirst]

thanks dad!

[@jacj2490]

Thanks for the great info. Any idea how to enable AutoTune on Scale. Appreciated deeply

[@GlennSchultes]

I'd love to know why your expansion went so quickly. Mine says 7 days 6 hours to complete!!!

[@Pr.2104]

I recently upgraded to Truenas scale electric eel but I am having a rough time figuring out why my pool isn't migrating into the new version? My previous version is 23.10.2 and that version shows my pools but I can't get it to pop up on 24.10

[@Skromnjaga88]

Thanks for the video. Have a question: for example I'll have an 256GB SSD for system and fev HDDs for data. But if I want to install some additional apps i can't install them on a system drive. And have lot of unused space. Is an option to use this space?

[@jarboer]

Not without messing with partitioning the drive which is not recommended. I did it once and it worked but it isn’t really something you should do. The boot drive is best left for only the OS which helps with it’s longevity since it doesn’t get many writes that way. Maybe you could get a smaller SSD for your boot drive and use the 256 GB one for apps. Though I know from experience it’s hard to find small drives that aren’t more expensive than a slight bigger drive, so some storage will be “wasted”. Personally I use a 240 GB drive now and just live with the fact some storage is wasted - this was a cheaper Kingston SSD so I’m not too upset about the loss of storage since it wasn’t a top end and expensive SSD

[@iburley_]

Is Docker Compose exposed in the TrueNAS UI? I saw when you went to the store it had a "Custom App" button, I'm hoping that's what it does.

[@RaidOwl]

Yep just paste your yaml

[@iburley_]

@RaidOwl Nice! This is everything I've wanted in a NAS OS.

[@oneamongmany1392]

Any idea on performance/overhead/ram usage changes after moving from kubernetes to docker? I read something a while ago that suggested docker was less resource intensive (only 16GB of RAM over here).

[@pg_usa]

Can I deploy a TrueNAS cluster with this version of Scale? I have 3 servers with 40TB, 1 with 116TB and 1 with 8x1TB SSD server. I would like to use Ceph or BeeGFS for the storage layer. Is it possible to use Infiniband NICs? I can not find any information on TruenasSite, only a regular infos.

[@JoshRBuchanan52]

In release 23, I was finally able to easily install ubuntu virtualized servers. I haven't updated to 24 on that server to test virtualization yet though. I don't want to brick anything I already have running.

[@it-fre4ki]

Seems there is still no vlan support for Applications...

[@WillFuI]

What happens to the current Kubernetes you have when you upgrade?Will they no longer get updated? Will. Is there an easy way to convert them over?

[@Lunolux]

i think they will say not to upgrade )= that will probably break everything better way should be to re-install all

[@aaron57422]

From what I've heard if you used the kubernetes app templates it will automatically migrate them to docker templates. I was only running syncthing app and it migrated clearly. But I would also definitely make note of your configurations beforehand just in case you need to remake it

[@newaira333]

TrueNAS apps and custom apps should port over to docker. If you installed apps from TrueCharts you're out of luck and would have to port manually.

[@haplopeart]

I pulled the upgrade trigger not that it really changed anything for me at the moment

[@MrJanvercauteren]

I don't see portainer in the apps list

[@marcq1588]

Another cloud service where to send you own data... Can you confirm if Truenas is encrypting your backup before sending it off to yet another "to be hacked" unknown cloud storage provider? People might not be that happy to just send their own data over?

[@RaidOwl]

Yes it’s an encrypted

[@spexpl]

Virtualized TrueNas on Proxmos or native TrueNas and using it as a virtualization platform?

[@RaidOwl]

TrueNAS on Proxmox

[@gerardocaceres7997]

Could you make a video about Wazuh?

[@sarunasj]

how to monitor gpu info?

[@Sahta99]

Does it make sense to install TrueNAS Scale on a 10 year old laptop with 8GB of DDR3 and SATA SSDs connected through caddy and USB 3.0 hub? I dont need it to saturate the network connection, just to install a few containers and to have some storage for them

[@TazzSmk]

10:36 this warning isn't super clear O.o

[@Jetta4TDIR]

Extending vdev without rebalancing? Why?

[@RaidOwl]

Cuz I had like nothing on it lol

[@Jetta4TDIR]

​​@@RaidOwlapolgies, wasn't directed at you... :D was directed more at Truenas it is my understanding that that functionality is not present

[@AspirateEarmark371]

Moving to docker is great for individual users, k3s introduces too much overhead and those truechart apps are extremely unstable

[@lucasduport6293]

I dont understand why I cant access to all the community apps ? I was forced to create an ubuntuserver VM to host my portainer/dockers. I would love to be able to run them directly from TrueNAS. Can someone help me please ? I am version 24.04

[@sultanoswing]

Docker is new to version 24.10. You need to upgrade.

[@lucasduport6293]

@@sultanoswing Great! Now I can access to the comunnity apps, but I still can't create servces using docker compose. Being forced to pull images and orchestrate them together manually is to much effort. I prefer use docker compose through a VM, hopefully it will be supported in the future..

[@THEG12EG]

The problem with trueness is nothing is straightforward

[@mr.o5577]

What about VMs, anything about it? They should copy proxmox so they become a one stop solution. I'd like that

[@cameronfrye5514]

Craft Computing did a video about it, still not good. If you need a hypervisor and NAS on the same hardware, still better off running ProxMox and virtualizing TrueNAS.

[@jondycz]

​@@cameronfrye5514don't virtualize trueNAS. That would lead to data corruption

[@mr.o5577]

@@cameronfrye5514 Thanks man

[@joshhaas8121]

Dad?

[@RaidOwl]

Did you finish your homework?

[@brunekxxx91]

When truenas updates scale or relases a new product, and they add support for something else than zfs, im switching 😂

[@JordansTechJunk]

This is a great change, I hope ZFS get's their shit together soon. That file system is hot garbage, promising, but its basically lighting 90% of your device value prop on fire. Great video bud!

[@rfreaky4717]

What?

[@ScreechingBagel]

What?

[@jgren4048]

What???

[@jgren4048]

Wha chu talkin about Willis??

[@borontv6400]

What?