Expensive UK surge protector teardown

[@RambozoClown]

It has always been my experience that expensive electronics always protect the fuse or MOV by failing first, usually catastrophically.

[@FelgasS]

It's a feature

[@bigclivedotcom]

Yes they do.

[@BTW...]

That's because you have been using crap surge protectors in your distribution panel.

[@AdamMansbridge]

I have a 3d printer with a hidden 110/220 selector, and plugged it into 220 whole or was set to 110. It blew the fuse With a new fuse and the hidden switch switched it works perfectly

[@zwerko]

Failing to do that, and the fuse actually gets burned, the fuse will always require more effort to replace than what the electronics designed to protect it is worth.

[@richardhalliday6469]

I used to love the Haynes workshop manuals when it would state ' Reassembly is simply a reverse of the dismantling procedure' ! A well made unit but quite costly at £90+.

[@BTW...]

You pay for quality and sink capacity. Cheap out and the MOV trip will not contain the full prospective fault current, measured in kA .... and burn out the distribution board.

[@beardedchimp]

I tried that with the Haynes Baby manual, turns out reassembly is extremely problematic. Even the police had to get involved!

[@jamesfurz7406]

Sparkie that fitted my EVSE told me that he went back to a customer to replace the SPD in a CU that he had fitted. There had been a pylon fault near by and apparently every house on the street, except the one he was going to, had all of their big appliances out front waiting to be collected as they were all damaged. The person who he was visiting was very happy to pay just for a new SPD!

[@memejeff]

very nice little device. I really like the modularity of it and the fact that the fusable joint blew clear unlike many others you have taken apart. Also very cool that they essentially designed some switch logic to send the right signal.

[@imantasct297]

The smaller component is a 600v 20kA Gas Discharge Tube, it's necessary in TT systems to isolate the MOVs from earth in case of failure

[@BTW...]

Read the schematic. The MOV is not connected to PE - they are between A and N only.

[@alexanderkupke920]

I found it only described in an Epcos (which seems to be a division of TDK) Datasheet as a Surge Arrester with a 600V DC capacity, designed for a continuous voltage of up to 255 V AC. This type is intended to be used as a Class I (more or less direct lighning strike) device between N and PE. it seems you need an additional varistor to upgrade it into a Class II (also induced voltage) device. the o or O seems to describe the obvious form factor (as if we could not identify it as round) but may describe something else as well. But from what I found, I could not find what the 20 was supposed to tell. size seemed not to fit, as it clearly looks larger than 20 mm. There are other types the go between L and N, but for the blue thing, I could not find anything at all.

[@BTW...]

@@alexanderkupke920 No, Class 1 [T1], Class 2 [T2] and Class 3 [T3] rated SPD's can contain both Varistors and GDT's in their construction. Look at the device dismantled in this video... see the T2 printed on the front... it's a Class 2 device. The Class types define where they are used. Again... Type 1 Surge Protective Device (SPD)s are intended for installation between the secondary of the service transformer and the line side of the service equipment overcurrent device, as well as the load side, including watt-hour meter socket enclosures, and are intended to be installed without an external overcurrent protective device. Type 1 devices are dual-rated for Type 2 applications as well, providing the highest ratings available for installation at the service entrance. Type 1 SPD can discharge lightning current with waveform 10/350μs. This, if required, will be installed in the primary distribution board at the origin of the electrical installation. A Type 1 SPD does not in itself offer the required protection level and must be used in conjunction with coordinated type 2 devices. An installation with a lightning protection system will require a Type 1 SPD. Type 2 SPDs are intended for installation on the load side of the service equipment overcurrent device, including SPDs located at the branch panel. Type 2 SPD can discharge 8/20μs current wave , they can prevent the damage of transient overvoltage in the electrical installations and protects equipment connected to it. It usually employs metal oxide varistor (MOV) technology. The device would normally be installed in sub-distribution boards and in the primary distribution board if there was no requirement for a type 1 device. Type 3 - These SPDs have a low discharge capacity. They must therefore only be installed as a supplement to Type 2 SPD and in the vicinity of sensitive loads. Type 3 SPD's are characterized by a combination of voltage waves (1.2/50 μs) and current waves (8/20 μs). Type 3 SPDs are normally installed right before the protected equipment.

[@andreas9238]

that epcos thing definitvely is a gas discharge tube GDTs help to keep static current through the varistors low (has basically infty ohms when not triggered) and at the same thime the MOV helps extinguishing the GDT after a surge.

[@sioux22]

Yup, EPCOS is a subsidiary of tdk of Japan as of a couple years

[@dashcamandy2242]

That's quite a nicely-designed device. I like that there's a set of secondary contacts for status monitoring, a clever feature.

[@robert574]

At our last house about 25 years ago, I had one of those bases that went under your monitor and had all the switches on it. Anyone remember those (I thought it was kinda cool). Anyway, we had a storm and tornado hit and that base blew up while I was sitting in front of it. It really toasted it. Outside, the power pole was broken off and all the lines were laying on my neighbor's car across the street. All of my stuff still worked.

[@Whatiwantedwastaken]

Just watched this last night and today I find myself staring at something similar attached to a solar array. Rather than being a through device they only have screw terminals at one end. Its kindly been mounted by the sparky in a clear fronted adaptable box but I took a double take when there was no wires out the bottom. It’s 3 units across with +ve PE and -ve terminals. The PV array is about 1000VDC and runs a very remote pump, basically powering the DC bus of a VSD which will vary the output hertz based upon the available energy from the PV array. Thanks for showing me what’s inside these little beasties.

[@Sonik_Induction_Sound_System]

Love the work you do Clive. Thanks for all the content.

[@beefgoat80]

I live in a 100+ year old brick building in Chicago with six units. Our unit has a finished basement, which is perfect for a home office. Being a basement, I'm about five feet away from the mains breakers for the entire building. The conduit that goes to the breaker panels for the different units is right behind my head. It's funny how those breakers are just trucking away, and I only think about them when something goes wrong. Oh, one of the fun things about living in an old building like this is how half of my kitchen is on my upstairs neighbor's power. Playing with breaker boxes can be elucidating.

[@clivequinn8978]

Of course I didn’t pay £93 for this, the hotel I stayed in at Edinburgh had one in the room fuse box.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I doubt hotels would want to spend money on flippant things like this. They are notoriously greedy and tight.

[@WindyJAMiller]

I went to one hotel, in the dinning room, the newly installed rcbo protecting the warning plate kept tripping. They told me proudly that they were having the rcbo swapped out back to just a fuse to solve the tripping problem 😅

[@RODALCO2007]

Thanks for opening one up, Always wondered what type of MOV's were inside. They are flipping expensive. Your hand skills, taking items apart are amazing to not to stab yourself in front of the camera.

[@KeritechElectronics]

Thanks for another entertaining and educational teardown :) I'm still pretty confused about the big blue one. I thought it was a spark gap rather than MOV. As for TN-C-S, it's the most common system in Poland, and the PEN split point (usually found in the main electrical panel rather than at the building entry) must be grounded.

[@bigclivedotcom]

The blue one appears to be a solid metal oxide varistor.

[@valimakm]

The blue one is a MOV and the disc shaped one is gas discharge tube (GDT). Generally MOVs are connected between L and N. GDTs are connected between L/N and PE.

[@koffibanan3099]

@@valimakm Yes, was going to post this as well. Although I fail to understand why and some googling didn't offer much. Do you know the reason for the choice of different suppression for LN and N PE? I know they have different characterics and clamp voltages

[@Monkeh616]

@@koffibanan3099 In TT systems where the earth impedance may be quite high or even go open, a faulty MOV may not be able to pass enough current to heat itself for the thermal fuse to open, leaving the electrical 'earth' with a dangerous potential to the literal earth.

[@robmacl7]

Also, with a surge a GDT will not reset until the voltage goes to zero. So it's fine on neutral, but can't be used on hot. The GDT can withstand much higher energy surge because it "crowbars", going to a very low resistance and causing the heating to happen somewhere else.

[@ozonesama]

5:28 BigClive: "Spudger, spudger, spudger..." Me: "Mushroom, mushroom!" 🤭

[@stepheneyles2198]

Found this on the web: "Highlights from Amendment 2 which come into force 28th September 2022 include: - Mandatory use of Arc Fault Detection Devices for socket outlet circuits in certain residential premises - Transient over-voltage protection must be fitted in all installations, exceptions may be permitted where the owner opts out and accepts all consequences and losses - Extended use of RCBOs in residential premises to avoid unwanted tripping - A new chapter for Prosumers (those who produce their own electricity and consume from the grid) - Updates to Appendix 6 and Chapter 64 for certification and reporting"

[@TestGearJunkie.]

Ok, so what eejit came up with that apology for a word..? Prosumer..? Ye gods that annoys me out of all proportion 🤬

[@SeanBZA]

The round disk is more than likely a spark gap device, there more to handle a loss of neutral fault, and safely indicate there is a neutral loss, but still leaving the main MOV capable of handling surges. Normally high voltage between live and neutral is handled by the 9 small MOV module, and the one between neutral and earth is there for things like lightning, that elevate both line and neutral well above earth, and the spark gap will fire, clamping the massive overvoltage down to the hold on voltage, typically 30VAC across the device so long as current is flowing. Then after a few minutes of clamping the spark gap will finally melt the solder, breaking the neutral, and the switch contacts will open a contactor in the supply side, that then disconnects the load. Same for high voltage for a few minutes, the 9 MOX block will heat up, and clamp to 400VAC or so, till they melt the solder, and the now smoking protection module will finally be able to release the contactor. Switch contacts are normally connected to both a contactor, rated for the full load current, and with a mains rated coil, that is also rated to withstand double the applied mains voltage for at least an hour, so that it does not fail first. Then you have a set of indicator lamps, to show that the mains is applied, and protection is working, with a green lamp, and that the mains is present, and the protection circuit has disconnected due to fault, with a red lamp. No lamps lit your power is off.

[@roberthawley3995]

This is not a spark gap as it's a type 2 device and not designed for lightening current as in a type 1 device

[@B-System]

@@roberthawley3995 Per the data sheet, that component is in fact a xenon spark gap. www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/inf/100/ds/EC600X-X0780S102.pdf

[@bigclivedotcom]

The small device connected to earth probably is a gas discharge tube or spark gap.

[@BjornV78]

@@bigclivedotcom indeed, the Epcos is a 600V spark gap arrester, the 20 is the year and the 0 at the end means non radioactive.

[@BTW...]

Correct - Gas sparkover protection on the N/PE side. But don't try to pretend you are a trade qualified electrician familiar with these when stating "The round disk is more than likely a spark gap device, there more to handle a loss of neutral fault, and safely indicate there is a neutral loss, but still leaving the main MOV capable of handling surges." That proves you don't know what you are talking about. Incorrect - The sparkover element has nothing to do with "there more to handle a loss of neutral fault, and safely indicate there is a neutral loss.." it is to sink UHV surges well exceeding any transient supply variation. A Neutral loss fault would render the MOV protection useless anyway, because it is connected between Active and Neutral ... not PE which is how the Sparkover is connected N/PE. Can you actually read a schematic? Incorrect - There is 1only MOV in this device. There is no way a 9x MOV array rated to sink 20 - 40kA / 100kA would fit in that single module, let alone one that also contains the sparkover LIGHTNING protection. Incorrect - Sink a 20 - 40kA surge and these will be hot BUT NOT smoking as they are rated to such fault conditions without being reduced to 'smoking' state. They would NOT be certified to ÖVE SN 60 and UL if they did. Incorrect - This DOES NOT disconnect Line from Load. The remote monitoring switch is only designed to indicate a significant surge or sparkover has rendered the device faulty OR if the module has been removed from the mounting base. Setting up a supply main contactor (and BTW, anything rated for main supply protection and control is always rated in the kV range) would be highly problematic for everyone in the building, disconnecting supply to all but essential services for transient fault conditions... or some idiot pulling out a module from the mounting base. Don't you think?

[@jeffdayman8183]

How many others were reaching for a band aid when Clive was trying to peel the blue resin? 8^) Glad there was no unplanned surgery. A nicely made device. Good to see some serious compression springs on the indicator trip pieces. Many springs I have seen in various electrical gizmo's from China have anemic springs, so later in the device's life when all is covered in dust, bug carcasses, lint, and oily crud, the spring doesn't do its' job due to inadequate force / low chooch factor. Cheers!

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Clive seems happy to be back at his "normal" bench😉👍

[@larsfinlay7325]

to honor The Big Lebowski you should put a white russian in your sodastream. alternatively if you wanted to get absolutely slammed drunk you could make a long island iced tea with it. final alcoholic idea of the day: make an entire Irish coffee, chill it, and then dump it into the sodastream bottle and make carbonated coffee liquor cream soda like the mad genius you are. one love

[@steveatkinson2196]

Crabtree and Wylex are both owned by the same company Electrium (A Siemens Company) so highly likely that is virtual the same unit.

[@geoffroberts4267]

Back in the day, I uses to work at the original Crabtree factory in Walsall. They sold out to Eveready, then got closed down..

[@AlexRian_]

The "small" MOV is instead a plasma spark arrestor. Basically, it's a spark gap inside a gas-filled chamber. This dumps stupidly high voltages before the MOV clamps the bulk.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

I was under the impression that these were to protect from surges caused by HV 'spikes' , impressed on the supply lines, causing the material of the MOV to conduct, dumping the energy (thus protecting the connected devices) and eventually fail in a conductive state triggering the indicator. Lightning being the obvious causation in relation to domestic supplies . (Unless you live near Industry with B big motors and arc furnaces) If the fault is in the combined neutral conductor would it still cause the small MOV to strike if it is rated at 600 V? I would have expected a spark gap rather than MOV if that is the intention. The increasing mandate to install these protective devices - for domestic supplies - is a sign of the times. Surges from overhead supply line reticulation are far more common than from underground cables so I question if all installations need them. But I guess £40 ish is Ok for peace of mind - £90 is pulling my todger! Next we have the march of the Arc Fault detectors to contend with - and effectiveness on low current lighting circuits. Statistically the highest proportion of electrical fires in the UK (like nearly all) apparently comes from local overheating of faulty appliances and overloaded power boards (not DIY electrics - as many sparks would have us believe) so devices of this nature will have minimal (none even?) Impact on that statistic. (Having lit the blue touch paper I now stand back for the Sparks flames🤣)

[@JR-yl8qi]

Here in the lightening capital of the US, one of my clients semi-regularly suffers a direct hit. Nothing will stop a full hit. Often with surge suppressors come with a warranty, and after the main insurance pays out (often times well in to the $100K range) the warrant covers the deductible. We've started adding more and more expensive surge arrestors where now when they suffer a direct hit, fewer devices are destroyed. They're a manufacturing plant and even near by strikes travel under ground and hit underground cables. So every entry point on every building has an expensive surge arrestor (generally for data lines.) Its better to lose a few $100 surge arrestor devices, and network switches immediately after it than to kill the computers in computer controlled equipment and be down for a week while everything is set up again. If I could get them to install lightening rods and fiber, they'd be better off but we can only advise and take our customer's money.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

​@@JR-yl8qi Nothing survives a direct strike! The effect of a strike on a GRP encased collinear antenna is spectacular shreds of GRP scattered for a hundred meters around and no sign of the antenna elements!. Or feeder cable.

[@alexanderkupke920]

Here in Germany in new installation they are mandatory as well, what you will usually see is a set of four of them for three phases and N on one side and PE on the other side (I never actively worked with those myself, so my memory might fail me on that important detail), those usually are only Class I devices, I think there is no mandate for Class II devices. I have seen combined Class I and II devices, but not sure how common they are. Never seen any like this one with both N and L, but the ones I have seen are more or less the same as the cartridge itself is replacable. My own installation is to old to have those, but to be honest, I think I would upgrade to a combined Class I + II device. With power lines usually underground here, most damage from lightning actually is based on induced voltage. (Ask my insurance how I know... that thing luckyly is old enough to have damage from lightning, even through induced Voltage, still included.) but to be honest, what gor fried in my case was only the internet router, nothing else got damaged. so I honestly are not even sure if it was from the power line, or what I think is more likely, through the phone line. There are a few devices to protect phone lines and such, but I found those dont go particularly well with todays VDSL data rates (no optical fiber here yet, maybe some time until 2030, perhaps)

[@jimi-w]

I have never been more nervous watching one of your videos than watching you cut towards your thumb with that scalpel!

[@oo-ux1om]

So glad to be fully off grid for power with no mains closer than >£30k (at the last quote). Most of my circuit is 17th edition compliant but I can use up old rolls of red and black or random multi core without feeling I'm going to get a detention from teacher and my consumer unit is a horrible Turkish made model from ebay (99p +pp) that takes mcbs but really is just designed to keep fingers away from live - I've had more rigid sandwich packaging. All my Merlin Gerin mcbs came from an old army camp we stripped prior to demolition - hence the surplus rolls of random cable and 50mtr lengths of 4 core 25 and 35mm running across the yard. I salvaged all the MK metal clad sockets and switches that litter my workshop and home, alongside extortionately expensive 1970s switch gear that connects my now redundant Lister VA Start-o-matic. If anything ever goes pop, I have drawers full of spares, though - touches wood - the only failure I've had in 20yrs is my wind turbine blew off the end of the salvaged lamp post in the 80mph winds of storm Franklin or whichever it was that blew our beech trees across the road and into the field. And in 40 years there's never been a lightning strike within miles of here, so fingers crossed it will stay that way or hit the grid pylons that run over the next field to us, testing all the SPDs in the town (which isn't many).

[@robertwhite4375]

Wylex and Crabtree are basically the same products rebranded. Both pranks are owned by Electrium along with the Appleby and Volex. They are now owned by Siemens and you can get the same circuit protection products branded as Siemens. In my opinion great quality brands for domestic distribution equipment.

[@psirvent8]

Yeah, I immediately thought of a gas-filled spark gap aka gas discharge tube when you showed the Epcos component. Reminded me of a much smaller one that I found inside a (cheap) power strip.

[@BTW...]

Your cheap Class 3 [T3] 'power strip' has a pathetic fault sink capability and more likely a source of fire behind the AV gear when it lives, given how poorly they are constructed. There is NO WAY they offer any form of lightning surge protection due to their location in the mains power supply, so why bother having a GDT installed.

[@sh4dowchas3r]

Are you and JW doing co-ordinated vids by any chance? His Diverted Neutral TN-C-S fault simulator thing made my head hurt just with what you might see in use without a fault.

[@lordmuntague]

I was wondering that, JW's video went public an hour before this one. These two guys complement each other very well.

[@ralphshoop8822]

Our fuse/beaker system in the US is quite a bit different. Would one of these protect a single circuit or the whole installation? I retired my "whole house surge protector" a year or two ago and took it apart, it consisted of a box with a whole bunch of the 1" coin style MOVs and some LEDs to ensure the device was receiving power. It was designed to be wired into a breaker for protection against the device failing.

[@bigclivedotcom]

This unit is designed for whole house use here.

[@PaulNorman]

You'd need two of them with dual phase power in the US, but they might be combined into one unit that takes two breaker slots.

[@ralphshoop8822]

@@PaulNorman yes, this is how my old and current ones are setup here in the US

[@iainathairydog]

@@PaulNorman In the UK, residential systems are usually single phase. 240v is enough for most domestic loads.

[@pglick123]

I just realized, Clive is 8 year old all of us, taking apart our parents appliances, without all the yelling. Have your kids and grandkids, in my case, watch him and save money!

[@bigclivedotcom]

All those technical kids went on to good careers.

[@randacnam7321]

You assume it took us until 8 to do that. I have that beat by a half decade at least.

[@jenkinseric2]

Once again I have learned something. I have no use for the knowledge but it was fun learning it. thanks

[@m4ttb4sh]

Anyone else wish clive would record the whole process of getting into units? 'One moment please'...no no no no no damn missed it again😂

[@Pugjamin]

We monitor SPD through our PLC’s as standard on all of our panel builds now. (Water industry)

[@bigclivedotcom]

Interesting to know. Is it just local indication or remote monitoring?

[@BTW...]

Wise move. How long did it take for them to consider this given water supply is an essential service? I've seen this policy applied for well over 30 years in the electrical generation / distribution sector.

[@Pugjamin]

@@BTW... only recently, but as we monitor mains supply, UPS status and 24v supply, monitoring of the surge status isn’t really that much of a priority.

[@Pugjamin]

@@bigclivedotcom local indication on HMI plus remote monitoring back to regional telemetry system (where somebody in the control room Will ignore it 😩) We’re moving store rooms soon so I’ll likely have some old PLC gear if you’d be interested in any for the Channel.

[@Deepthought-42]

👍Thanks for another useful teardown with BC’s fingers somehow surviving the spurger and knife. Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly of course 🤣

[@TheJohnDorn]

Watching you cut toward your thumb with that utility knife had me engaging safety squints.

[@TheAlchaemist]

It's an hybrid type, it has a ionization gas discharge tube for one, and a VDR for the other. It is a pretty common combination, I don't remember if they call it Type 2 or Type 3. I should look it up but I am lazy... :) The symbol clearly drawn on the devices always shows it.

[@bigclivedotcom]

This is a type 2 unit.

[@andrewdoherty737]

They're not mandatory yet but an advised. I'm sure when the next round of updates to 18th edition comes out they will mandate them!

[@davebell4917]

There's a get-out used in a lot of the building industry that allows an old design to be "grandfathered in". So a 2023 new house is built to an old design, and the house buyer is stuck with a shortage of power sockets set in awkward places.

[@25566]

I pay home insurance for a reason, if a lightning strike kills my computer and TV they're the ones responsible.

[@MizMite2002]

I watched a guy get charged 50 dollars to put a new one in his escooter and told him outside they can be bought for 15 dollars at home depot.

[@NinoJoel]

What would you do with that thing in a scooter? Lol

[@bertiesworld]

I do sometimes wonder how we managed for god knows how many years without all these fancy gizmos. Just another device to burn out/go wrong. And when it does, yet more expense. Electricians must love this stuff. Having seen houses/ panels etc that have been hit by lightning, having all these gizmo will not save it.

[@retrozmachine1189]

In ye olde days our devices were much more robust. Fridges were basic affairs, line operated motors, mechanical thermostats, motor driven defrost - if there was any auto defrost at all. Same with TVs, once were all valves (tubes) and quite robust. Now everything is packed full of semiconductors, even the washing machine with whiz bang front panels and VFD style motor drives. Yes the better devices do have MOVs etc built in, but when Mr Lightning comes knocking you really want do dump it all to earth before it gets inside the larger installation. That's why.

[@Gunbudder]

damn dude, for 93 pounds it better give a reach around!

[@iandawkins2182]

Another superb video, many thanks 👍👍

[@rtechlab6254]

Both our vans have these on the mains side. If they fail or you pull it out it locks out the mains supply to the van and makes a lot of noise if you turn the inverter on or connect the shore line

[@jonerlandson1956]

i agree... let's tear apart the expensive things in this world and find out why they is so expensive....

[@RFC3514]

You don't need to take them apart to figure that out. They're more expensive because they cost more.

[@jonerlandson1956]

@@RFC3514 no... i really believe we should take them apart... division created the univese....

[@jonerlandson1956]

@@RFC3514 science... is to divide... and conquer....

[@jonerlandson1956]

@@RFC3514 to be... or... not to be... is division....

[@Ale-bj7nd]

You forgot the pills today

[@piconano]

If they sold these for $5, they'd still make money. That's the biggest MOV I've seen to date.

[@interstat2222]

Crabtree, Volex and Wylex are the same company. Always good. No change really from old British ownership to since they were bought by Siemens a few years ago. As usual we sell everything off!

[@amorphuc]

Wow. Thanks for sharing Big Clive. Pricey little guy isn't it?

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

It’s one of those fun things where the price seems high. But then you think about the cost of everything it’s replacing. And suddenly it’s a bargain at ten times the price.

[@AndrewStrydomBRP]

@@ZaphodHarkonnen It also seems quite specialised, with the microswitches and all, probably designed more for commercial and so it's a low volume product and hence the price is high.

[@keithking1985]

Ya hit the nail on the head about why they're so pricey Clive..

[@MrDbone75]

A very good firday morning to you sir from Wellington Somerset

[@d00dieb0x]

I found the arrangement of the switches odd. 'good' and 'tripped' provide the same information, just inverted. Wouldn't it be more interesting to differentiate between 'tripped' (one pin up) and 'removed' (two pins up simultaneously)?

[@bigclivedotcom]

Any tripped section is an indication that the module needs replaced.

[@MostlyInteresting]

Here in the states. A whole house surge suppressor is a block that screws into a knockout hole. And the wires that come out of it going to a convenient breaker of sufficient capacity usually 40 amps or 60 amp. So they're very universal. If you get hit so hard with lightning that it shorts right through the suppressor it will trip the breaker its connected to.

[@Ale-bj7nd]

Some models are designed for breakers and some are not. It's always a mess choosing the correct one.

[@curtw8827]

TYPE 1 have internal fusing so they can be attached to the system without a CB.

[@BovrilTechnics]

Delroy the Electrician Loves the Crabtree units

[@k7iq]

My company also makes SPDs. We use 130 degree C low temperature melt solder

[@wisher21uk]

Brilliant it looks like it’s so well designed thanks Clive 😊

[@tinygriffy]

Interesting how the metal bond broke.. not a single whisker.. I bet that's not your common Sn60/40 and it will never get shiny and flow not with all the flux in the world :) Thanks for the tear down !

[@TheBurnsStuff]

LMAO I have a meme photo of darth vader on the toilet yelling (in quotes) use the force!. Its hanging in my bathroom so you have to stare at it while sitting on the toilet. My sense of humor is a bit dirty lol.

[@PenryMMJ]

Clive "this is not going back in anytime soon" The internet "actually Clive, I think you'll find it goes back in a lot easier than you're expecting"

[@iankester-haney3315]

I find British wiring methods a bit strange. The new curcuit breakers with fault protection are pretty good. I used combo Gfci/Arc Fault breakers for my computer room.

[@JulianSortland]

I think thr Australian MEN system where there is an earth link in the switchboard / meter box is sensible. There is then an earth rod and bond to metallic water pipes as well. If you have extra earthing for lightning protection on a ham radio tower, this has to be bonded too. If it is an extensive system you can end up supplying part of your neighbours' neutral return!

[@retrozmachine1189]

It even goes so far as the neutral conductors in the LV network being linked between transformer service areas creating a large areas with a continuous and earthed neutral. South Australia goes even further with their composite metal poles by using the LV neutral to carry the MV PE/sense wire, effectively switching whole HV service areas into one big common earthed neutral area.

[@Monkeh616]

So.. essentially the same as everywhere else with a TN-C-S system, then. Including most installations since around the 70s in the UK (okay, we skip the extra earth rod, which is turning out to be a mistake), and the USA, and presumably most of Europe.

[@nazovni]

Would be interesting to do a similar review for the OBO Bettermann V10 Compact surge protection device. It has quite an unusual design (seemingly in a good way) relatively to other SPDs.

[@JACKATTACKED]

Are they check- replace every X due to deterioration as well?

[@Ale-bj7nd]

I don't think the suffer from deterioration a lot.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Probably only when they trip, unless it's done as preventative maintenance.

[@RFC3514]

Are those supposed to be thrown away after they trigger? Are the varistors actually damaged in the process? Because it seems like they could be reset by the manufacturer (by removing all the old solder and reapplying the correct amount again).

[@Monkeh616]

They only heat up and melt the solder when defective - this requires either an enormous transient or many, many smaller ones. They last years in practice.

[@RFC3514]

@@Monkeh616 - Defective? Heating up and melting the solder is how they protect the circuit from major surges, no? "Defective" would mean failing at their job and letting the current through. My question is whether heating up to the point necessary to melt the solder and break the circuit (which I'd say is still doing their job when a surge happens) actually damages the varistors themselves. It seems like a lot of material there (basically, everything but the solder) could be reused by the manufacturer.

[@Monkeh616]

@@RFC3514 They do not heat appreciably during transient events - the clue is in the name. They last milliseconds or less. The MOV only heats meaningfully when damaged and conducting on normal supply voltages. Heating up and melting the solder is how they FAIL.

[@RFC3514]

@@Monkeh616 - Nothing in the name refers to temperature. And surely, it depends on how long "the events" last. It seems that what you mean is the opposite: that _having failed_ is what makes them heat up and melt the solder. Not "being defective". In other words, if they ever heat up to the point of melting the solder (even if it's due to a single prolonged event), that means they are no longer functional. Is that it?

[@Monkeh616]

@@RFC3514 I suggest you employ the search engine of your choice to understand what transient overvoltage events are and how MOVs work.

[@markaoslo5653]

Quite literally _"taken to bits!"_ Cheers- 👍

[@abs_nobody]

clive talking about how he's probably gonna stab himself while pointing the knife towards his thumb is more amusing than it should be

[@snakezdewiggle6084]

That was trippy ! Nice one Clive 👍

[@MrRelevance02]

Clive, I live in NZ and my house has absolutely no RCD protection, Also still has some of the original wire wound fuses. Is this even compliant.

[@bigclivedotcom]

It depends on local regulations, but it would still be compliant here. An upgrade to a whole house RCD is a good safety addition though, albeit that it can be subject to unwanted tripping when things like water heaters fail.

[@MrRelevance02]

Ahh I see. Not my home. Thanks for the answer, Yes water heaters love causing high power drain when thermostats fail, Dangerous as well.

[@RFC3514]

3:50 - There's no need to say that. You're Big Clive; we assume you have fresh solder with you at all times.

[@plasmar1]

I got 2x 1U rackmount APC G5 Power Filters that got thrown out where I work, and all they had bad was a capacitor...... they're pretty much fancy Surge Protectors; a few dozen relays, a few MOV's and a device that monitors voltages and cuts off the relays if it decides something is wrong......

[@dollarama8652]

J.W you crazy sun of a gun you've done it again! Full marks for this video...

[@michaelwebber4033]

The last surge diverter I had to price was $1800 nzd. It is a 100kA version for a large switchboard. But they definitely aren't cheap

[@BjornV78]

11:50 In a TT system like here in Belgium (Europe), the Neutral and Earth are separated, but between both there can be a voltage between 0 to up to 5V depending on the distance from the end station and load in the area. The current is more then 30mA, because when shorting both will trip a 30mA RCD. The few times when i did measurements during the day here at home, there was arround 1,5V between ground and earth. Some people say that this is free electricity and it is not registered by the power meter in the breaker panel, but with the new digital meter here, i have my doubts about that.

[@bigclivedotcom]

It shouldn't register on the meter, but can be a bit unpredictable.

[@bjornroesbeke]

I've yet to see any notable potential difference between Pe and N, but there's no current sensing between the in and out of the neutral wire in either analog or the new digital meters. There's only a current shunt in the line conductors.

[@Nugglashine]

I got to searching for similar product and I was having a laugh looking at some "audiophile circuit breakers" that range in cost from $710 - $10,000 USD. Each.

[@paulstubbs7678]

Rather interesting, as you 'fondled' yours before breaking it, I grabbed an NHP 'Titan surge diverter', it is only a single varistor job, that otherwise has a near identical holder etc. Unlike yours I plan on installing it, I just have to decide how I'm going to do this, probably Active to Neutral. That TNCS system of yours sounds a tad dangerous, in my install (Australia) we have just Active and Neutral from the street, the earth is supplied locally. I did have a open Neutral fault, so everything was going via the earth system (and a fair bit via my Amateur/Ham radio install) with lots of funny effects - However it only affected my, and not my neighbours.

[@bigclivedotcom]

The TNCS issue is also huge in Oz. It's not that long ago that a young girl was electrocuted by a garden tap as a result of this style of fault.

[@paulstubbs7678]

@@bigclivedotcom Yes, pore girl, however it stops at that property, where as yours sounds like it involved several houses, or am I reading this all wrong. I was lucky in that I had lots of extra earth's and things that alerted me to the trouble, many know nothing and the problem goes undetected/reported until someone pays the ultimate price.

[@Shaun.Stephens]

Great video, thanks Clive, good to see you're home again. []

[@davelowets]

In my experience, I've seen Epcos (TDK) Mov's and Gas Discharge Tubes in many high-end/expensive electronics, and never in cheap throw away stuff. You get what you pay for... (Well, sometimes NOT today)

[@brianallen9810]

Nice, hate to see you tear it apart though. Do British residential electrical distribution panels use DIN rails ? I've seen a lot of these but only in machines, but that's in the states.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Yes mostly top hat style DIN rail now.

[@ferrumignis]

Yes, the modern UK consumer units have the MCBs, GFCIs etc mounted on a DIN rail (or two or three DIN rails for the big 20/30/40+ circuit CUs)

[@BTW...]

"..but that's in the states." Good luck with that. Could be confusing for some because the rail is known as DIN 35 (35mm wide) and you have a state of affairs where any DIY moron can wire up a home. No doubt there are many 'base' installations that don't have modern distribution panels still in-service all around the World.

[@TheManLab7]

I look at and test my RCD's every now and then.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

yep every time the clocks change i test the rcds... and the smoke alarms get new batteries too (still using 9v backed up aicos because... i got them cheap :D )

[@robert574]

You don't see many of these surge protectors in the US, at least not in the main panel. I have a lot of them plugged in the outlets before a device. It occurred to me the other day that all of them as a whole should be protecting my system to neutral and ground, some on one leg and some on the other, but of course it doesn't work that way because usually only one of them gets blown.

[@GothBoyUK]

I had to look away when he was using the blade. Yep, I'm a limp biscuit when it comes to potential slicing. 😅

[@rossthompson1635]

I remain rather sceptical of surge protection devices. Wouldn't the most likely secenario be a sustained over-voltage (e.g. a neutral fault causing unbalanced phases), in which case these will simply fail in the controlled (hopefully) manner demonstrated in the video. Do surges of the few cycles duration that these can absorb actually happen that much?

[@retrozmachine1189]

Depends on how decrepit your electricity network is. Apparently PEN faults in the network are common in the UK? That's a bit scary. Not that it happens much but the fault mode in Australia largely only involves the individual service lead-in rather than a network fault.

[@phonotical]

For electricians who want to fuck over their clients by price gouging I've found something like that mov, and I'm wondering if it was a capacitor at some point which no longer works due to age, a seemingly made of brass, inside an old bakelite ohmrite meter, any chance you know what it was?

[@bigclivedotcom]

Not sure without seeing it.

[@ShrimpinAintEasy]

Stressin' me out with that razor blade

[@frogz]

ever see a USA panel surge protector? it is 1 piece and doesnt use phoenix connectors, only a grub screw, has both heat and magnetic current breaking modes

[@Monkeh616]

That's uh, a circuit breaker, not a surge protector.

[@frogz]

@@Monkeh616 my bad, they make surge suppressors as well but most people dont have them

[@-vermin-]

Is the device connected to earth a MOV or gas discharge tube?

[@bigclivedotcom]

It's a discharge tube.

[@user-jo8kq5ed4j]

This coats as much as a phone. Nice.

[@joeyf504327]

the main problem is that if someone removes the protector then external circuit sees it as "Good" The pins should retract if it trips so that if tripped or removed the external circuit is tripped.

[@captainslow6888]

No, if removed the microswitches go in NO position so external becomes "no good", you see wen clive tript it that the pins retract.

[@aaronmdjones]

The pins do retract if it trips. It already does what you're wishing it would.

[@BTW...]

@@captainslow6888 Quality devices have SPDT switches for remote monitoring... so the fool uses NO contact set, and the wise use NC circuit wiring to provide fail-safe indication of wiring, device serviceability/health and presence. You do understand that those switches indicate the removal of the device from the base, don't you?

[@captainslow6888]

@@BTW... that's what i said...

[@beeble2003]

This is like an electrical surge protector, but it keeps you safe from too much poshness suddenly rushing into your appliances?

[@robertburrows6612]

Modern living, is making mains voltage, very noisy and causing voltage spikes. Badly designed inverters, switch mode power power supplies, along with more dependency on electric motors , on appliances , Aircon, and heat pumps, are causing the problems. heading our way is will be mandatory type F, RCDs and RCBOs .,I noticed your comment on cable joints, they now moving away from PME and replacing it with PEN which is very similar to PME , they nolong cut the cable to make the joint they now using wire taps , sealed in resin to make the joint

[@DavidJohnson-yg8qm]

I recognize the old rewirable fuses were not up to scratch but things are going too far now.

[@robertburrows6612]

We are not allowed to mix brands in DB or CU , so the expensive crabtree can only be fitted to to crabtree board, so you cant fit a cheaper Hagar SP in to a Crabtree board for example , but the work around is to fit a small Hagar board upstream of the main board ect

[@TheChipmunk2008]

technically you ARE allowed to mix brands but then you have to get it all type tested and you take responsibility. The only time this generally happens is control systems, but breakers for domestic use with mixed brands happen in swimming pool controls, quite frequently you'll see one make of breakers, another make of timers, a third make of contactors... etc. But it's all type tested by the pool company (supposedly!)

[@ketas]

i often don't get why you can't mix makers in god damn din rail panel. they are all certified to work. and installed by pro. maker nor installer is responsible for faults they didn't intentionally cause. i mean i once bought ge mcb. installed it and found it won't work. took it to supplier, they didn't believe me, had to test it with neon screwdriver and random mains lead. wasn't really electricians behind the counter. to their surprise, it didn't pass anything in closed. i should have taken it apart instead, as i've never seeb brand new mcb to fail. but there you go!

[@fkiesel9442]

But why is it not allowed to mix brands? Even here in Germany it doesn't matter one bit if you mix all the brands availabel in a distribution board. It is quite common, that the brand of the distribution box doesn't even offer any of the stuff that goes inside. Also I don't unerstand why metal boxes are used in GB. In Germany we use mostly plastic boxes (flame-retardant) or metal boxes that have a plastic liner inside to make them class II. Class I boxes are rarely used in residential applications and if they are used, usually there is extra grounding necessary. In industrial it is different, but there grounding is an art of itselfe.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

approval status. we love paperwork @fkiesel9442

[@bigclivedotcom]

In an ideal world every breaker would be a standard size with a standard terminal position, but there is a slight variation between brands that could affect the ability of the cover to go on, or stress the busbar connections.

[@Pulverrostmannen]

That Blue MOV are so big even I want it ha ha

[@SteveMarr-oe4dr]

Hi BC living in an area which has frequent storms and has overhead power lines i am waiting for my electrician to install a double module type 1 and 2 spd. It would be interesting to see a type 1 device dissected

[@MaxPivovarov]

Epcos is not MOV, but Surge Arresters (gas filled spark gap) 600v 20kA

[@markpunt9638]

Would be a lot more helpful if it made some kind of noise - like a smoke detector does. How many people have sight of the distribution board? Most talked away in cupboards or even in the garage

[@TalasDS]

Have you disassembled on video one of these Chinese units? I'm quite curious to see how they differ and how they can cut costs on such a simple design.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Yes. I have a few videos about the Chinese surge protectors.

[@zzkjbry]

shocking use of a box cutter, take care not too hurt your self Clive ....

[@kimsleep4111]

Why does this unit make me feel its built kind of Rinky-Dink. When I look at north American units, they seem twice the size, and of far thicker construction. As well the in/out connections seem to be really under-sized as well??

[@ohanneskamerkoseyan3157]

12:16 The switching mechanism is basically two if statements nested one into the other.

[@dcallan812]

Green flaps are a novelty it really snaps open once the solder warms up. interesting bit of kit. 2x👍 I guess even Darth Vader has to crap, just the same as our good old King the shit. ☺

[@DavidAndersen-pk4yl]

Great video as always!

[@SergeantGardner]

Please do a SPD showdown!! :) My contender is the citel ds240