Debunking doomerism: 4 futurists on why we’re actually not f*cked | Kevin Kelly & more

Four visionaries-Kevin Kelly, Peter Schwartz, Ari Wallach, and Tyler Cowen-share their insights on the future, urging viewers to consider the impact of their actions on future generations.
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Explore the future with visionaries Kevin Kelly, Peter Schwartz, Ari Wallach, and Tyler Cowen.
While each is looking into the future through a different lens, they all share a belief in the power of optimism and proactive engagement as essential tools for overcoming today's challenges.
Wallach introduces "Longpath," urging long-term thinking, while Kelly advocates for "Protopia," emphasizing gradual progress. Schwartz highlights scenario planning's importance, emphasizing curiosity and collaboration. Cowen reflects on America's progress and calls for urgency.
Together, they stress empathy, transgenerational thinking, and diverse futures to collectively build a better tomorrow. The message: the future is a continuous creation requiring proactive, collective action.
Read the video transcript ► bigthink.com/s...
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► About Kevin Kelly:
Kevin Kelly is Senior Maverick at WIRED magazine. He co-founded WIRED in 1993, and served as its Executive Editor for its first seven years. His newest book is The Inevitable, a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller. He is founder of the popular Cool Tools website, which has been reviewing tools daily for 20 years. From 1984-1990 Kelly was publisher and editor of the Whole Earth Review, a subscriber-supported journal of unorthodox conceptual news. He co-founded the ongoing Hackers’ Conference, and was involved with the launch of the WELL, a pioneering online service started in 1985.
► About Peter Schwartz:
Peter Schwartz is an internationally renowned futurist and business strategist, specializing in scenario planning and working with corporations, governments, and institutions to create alternative perspectives of the future and develop robust strategies for a changing and uncertain world. As Senior Vice President of Strategic Planning for Salesforce, he manages the organization’s ongoing strategic conversation.
Peter was co-founder and chairman of Global Business Network. He is the author of several works. His first book, The Art of the Long View, is considered a seminal publication on scenario planning. Peter has also served as a script consultant on the films "The Minority Report," "Deep Impact," "Sneakers," and "War Games." He received a B.S. in aeronautical engineering and astronautics from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York.
► About Ari Wallach:
Ari Wallach is an applied futurist and Executive Director of Longpath Labs. He is the author of Longpath: Becoming the Great Ancestors Our Future Needs by HarperCollins and the creator and host of the forthcoming series on PBS A Brief History of the Future, which is being executive produced by Kathryn Murdoch and Drake.
He has been a strategy and foresight advisor to Fortune 100 companies, the US Department of State, the Ford Foundation, the UN Refugee Agency, the RacialEquity 2030 Challenge and Politico’s Long Game Forum.
As adjunct associate professor at Columbia University he lectured on innovation, AI, and the future of public policy. Wallach's TED talk on Longpath has been viewed 2.6 million times and translated into 21 languages. Ari was the co-creator of 2008's pro-Obama The Great Schlep with Sarah Silverman.
► About Tyler Cowen:
Tyler is the Holbert L. Harris Chair of Economics at George Mason University and serves as chairman and general director of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. He is co-author of the popular economics blog Marginal Revolution and co-founder of the online educational platform Marginal Revolution University.
He graduated from George Mason University with a bachelor's degree in economics and earned a Ph.D. in economics from Harvard University. He also runs a podcast series called Conversations with Tyler. His latest book Talent: How to Identify Energizers, Creatives and Winners Around the World is co-authored with venture capitalist Daniel Gross.

[@lillianbarker4292]

It seems that futurists look at life in a very materialistic way-robots, flight, space. I think instead we’ll be looking at creating satisfying lives for everyone through better distribution of education, wealth, more justice, safety and peace. We have lagged behind socially for far too long. Time to catch up.

[@ottz2506]

It gives off “people at the beginning of a dystopia film talking positively about a great discovery/cure that ends up leading us to a dystopia” energy.

[@prophecyrat2965]

@@ottz2506its called “civilization”.

[@ottz2506]

@@prophecyrat2965 People talking about something positively that ends up leading humanity to a dystopia is civilisation?

[@prophecyrat2965]

@@ottz2506 Civilization, “conqure nature and reach the stars”. Yea, this Civilization, 12,000 years of genocide and slavery all so the master slave race, humans, can create the worlds most powerful war machines to annhilate all organic life, whie also creating conditions that create more diseases that ever couod have occurrd naturally: Monocultre Agricultre, Mines, factories, cities. All perfect conditions to create diseases, not to mention the intential millitary apllication of pestacides and herbacides on humans, ir just in agricultre it even on the civilian level so everyone can have there perfect little Civilzed way of life free from all the dirt and bugs of nature. Yes this Civilization we all so proudly champion and hold as our greates achivement is in fact a fuking Holocuast, Cancer, Genocide and Slavery Machine.

[@Here4TheHeckOfIt]

​@@prophecyrat2965 Or maybe it's called devolution.

[@freebornjohn2687]

One of things that I find deeply troubling is the loss of the natural world and biodiversity. Where I live birds and insects that were abundant 75 years ago are extinct now and you have to travel a long way to see them. Even back in the 70s when you drove your car on a nice summer's day it would be covered in small insects now there are none. I also fear the loss of open free democratic countries as people in their desperation and frustration to turn to strongmen politics. These strongmen always fail, close down ideas and debate, and succumb to infighting and corruption.

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

have also found this very disturbing, it's like all the life just crawled away 😶

[@Chris-el4hd]

I think when they say our future is moving to a direction that is more pro; I'm sure natural world and biodiversity is accounted for.

[@jelaninoel]

I’m only 33 and i remember when i was younger there being birds, squirrels, bugs etc everywhere. But now all the trees are gone and the animals have gone with them. I can go months without seeing a squirrel. Black squirrels forget it. A mythical creature at this point

[@lingyjennifer8399]

@@jelaninoel Hey, squirrels are smart, they moved to the city where there are better pickings.

[@richsackett3423]

@@kevinjensen2071 As if you don't own a car. F off.

[@mrdeanvincent]

These 'debunking doomerism' types of videos always feature corporate futurists with extremely narrow perspectives, so they always completely fail to debunk anything noteworthy. We've heard all this before. It doesn't answer the questions. Having said that, doom & despair is not a final state. Don't get stuck there. You can move on to purpose and meaning or whatever works for you.

[@burnyizland]

@@LoftisforTreasurer Those who can't think their way through have no choice BUT to follow someone who can. That's hardly the fault of smarter people.

[@burnyizland]

​@@kevinjensen2071 ??Surely you can see how a pedal bike is less of a draw on resources than a car made of much MORE metal and rubber and plastic, but also glass, precious metals, and running on fossil fuels? That shouldn't be a hard concept.

[@burnyizland]

@@LoftisforTreasurer Lol, I don't think you did understand my point. I didn't say -I- needed to. I'm a scientist. I put myself through many years of schooling and physical research with my own senses and instruments so I don't need anyone to lead me. It also means I understand the vast chasm that exists between a layman's understanding and that of someone who has actually made this their passion and profession. Learn about it or listen to those who have. I thought those were the only two options until I witnessed all the angry ostriches around forums like these.

[@richsackett3423]

That's exactly what they said. But you said it SOOO much better. Gold star for you.

[@DJaquithFL]

.. Unless you own an AI how are you going to profit 1¢. Now if everybody's suddenly unemployed, where are any profits going to come from? Blood out of a turnip?! Also, if there is an AGI or God forbid even worse an ASI then why would it be slave to 8 billion people competing for limited resources. Universal Income for 8 billion unemployed people. Yeah that'll be a great world! Not. See Fermi paradox.

[@matthewhoopes4440]

I have been traveling for work for almost 30 yrs in different capacities. While I'm not someone who is pessimistic or conspiratorial, i can't help notice the increase in drugs ,homelessness, and decline in mental health. The extreme division in politics and increasing gap between have and have nots. I believe too much is focused on technology and not enough on just the well being of people.

[@CentaurisNomadus]

That is a good one. I also want to add that many people are still getting caught by conspilogies, just as they used to for centuries. Rather than trying to dig deeper and reading what various sources say about a certain phenomena and each other, many people, including older, 'experienced' adults fall in this trap. It is just so easy to listen to that short video where all the world is rendered in colours that are just in place to answer any questions at the top of agenda instead of putting in some research and refreshing your knowledge in even math and natural sciences. I am sorry to know that some of my relatives also got caught in this idiotism. I beg for life of recluse rather than having a mind infested by nasty conspirology and pseudo-science. About the future in general: you know, it is just so unlikely for humanity to exist for 10^h (h - huge number) of years or break out of our dimensions to something beyond (if that is possible), not mentioning any nation, language, culture, or nucleon-based objects, or anything else. We must accede to the fact that stagnation for us is quite likely. Yet, there is still point in striving for knowledge, answering questions and exploring sense that is so evasive, at least so I think. Heck, there is even a very small possibility that I would live for trillions of years before going for euthanasia or that there could be exact copies (atom-by-atom, up to the scale of local galaxy group that is to be left practically lonely if expansion continues) of mine somewhere, with almost the same life stories as of mine; that the limits to knowledge exist and we might from one time and on know that we hit it irreversibly; that there is infinite knowledge 'ocean' and we will reach the infinite speed in acquiring it (could we?).

[@matthewhoopes4440]

@CentaurisNomadus . Thanks for the insightful reply. Sadly, many of my friends and family adopted conspiracies as a normal way of thinking. They do exactly no research. For instance. Will cash go away? Some say it's just around the corner. Now, instead of just repeating that. Google " will cash go away". It will give a big list of why it's not happening anytime soon. Of course I could go on. Anyway, I'm just trying to personally try to figure how to deal with friends and family who believe in childish things. Now, let me say, I do believe in corruption. But I think there is a difference between the two but also some overlapping. I just learned what a professional futurist is. While I won't become one, what if I could be a futurist of my own life. Inevitable things will happen. I could have at least a basic plan for each situation that I can come up with. Anyway, lots to think about while at the same time always moving forward in life.

[@jesseleeward2359]

They are optimistic because they are worried about the 'future' of the ruling class and how cool life will be for them and how much better things are getting for the wealthy.

[@Amazology]

I don't think malignant optimism which licks the corporate boot like this is a solution to anything at all.

[@DrDavidThor]

"malignant optimism" Good phrase.

[@brekenwallar8144]

having empathy for humans of this generation and the next seems to a great solution in my opinion. If we all were the most empathetic people Im sure we would be doing better as a species

[@360.Tapestry]

@@DrDavidThor it's idiotic wisdom lmao see, i can just put words together, too.... doesn't make it mean anything HAHAHAHAHA so don't be so impressed

[@RG-sv4qb]

Absolutely. The first guy is so self celebratory, and doesn't have the imagination to realise every dumb anecdote he tells has a counter argument... Companies that over predicted how many they'd sell and failed because of that. Malignant optimism is 👌👌

[@RG-sv4qb]

Senior Maverick=Old Wanker. Patronising twat. Imagine being that age and be so self celebratory

[@meandyouagainstthealgorith5787]

Let me give you what is missing. It's the element that will make everything right. I can give it to you in one word. PARTICIPATION. People don't want to be nothing more than a variable in the algorithm that must be canceled. At best, many people see their influence diminishing against a background of machines, AI, and multi-billionaires that imagine that it is their job to know everything and direct everyone. People are smart. People want to participate. People want to feel their influence. People want to retire to a life they feel they have made better.

[@robertdouglas8895]

That's what happened with WWII. Let's hope we can come together over something more positive. We went through this the last century with a pandemic at the 20 year mark and an ego centered decade of the 20's. We have to hit bottom to want to change and that other people are not making us sick and unhappy, we are. Two world wars finally brought us together to have a couple of peaceful decades when I was growing up. Then we questioned the status quo and went through some unsettling years to find that peace is not dependent on the world but it's within ourselves regardless of what is happening in the world.

[@CariMachet]

You are love

[@888_vav]

Much larger problem being unobserved. 99% are living majority of life through their unbalanced unconscious shadow. Spun so tight it's not visible and can't be undone by anyone but the enveloped. I'm not sure who has experience attempting to help someone understand there unconscious projections but.... it's not easy nor enjoyable and usually a failure. When you threaten someone's psyche or comfort or beliefs with truth the archons roll out full throttle. Ignorance is our problem on a mass scale. The things being manifest by the collective unconscious are disturbing and no one even sees it.

[@prophecyrat2965]

@@kevinjensen2071nor will digging up minerals and metals to use im more machines. Fool. Humans need the ecosystem and ANYTHING THAT ANNHILTES ALL ORGANIC LIFE IS THE ENEMY.🦾🤖☢️💀🔥🏭

[@themightyquyn]

Good point.

[@ivanfreely6366]

A meager attempt at instilling optimism into the viewership (for those that can afford to be connected to the internet) and it certainly didn't debunk _doomerism._ One comment I read identified the main problem to be _private finance._ Basically the wealthy decides what our future is going to look like and attempt to make it happen. Everything they do is about accumulating more wealth and will go to any lengths to achieve it. *Wealth* brings about *power* which in turn allows one to *control* society. Collective action is great and all but, it requires a leader. Pay attention to who that leader is and more importantly, who the leader's benefactor is. You may not like what you discover.

[@richsackett3423]

"One comment I read identified the main problem to be private finance." What a stupid notion. I'd like to see his video.

[@Zov631]

“Futurists” lol

[@danielkillorin9742]

@@richsackett3423 the system is unsustainable for people who value shtuff such as “liberty” personally I don’t care about that stuff so I’m with you 100%

[@ywtcc]

Collective action requires leadership, not necessarily a leader. What you're looking for in society to identify if collective action is occurring is social organization. Such as a government, or a business, church, school, charity, union, professional guild, etc. A single leader isn't going to fix all these problems for you. In practice, the individuals in a position to exercise that kind of leadership are typically the people creating the problems. We need to throw the bums out of government, bankrupt inefficient and corrupt businesses, castigate hateful churches, discredit fraudulent schools, and regulate unions and professional guilds so that EVERYONE is able to engage in legitimate, non exploitative business negotiations, and price gouging and other exploitative abuses are minimized. For me, I think principles may be more important than leaders. We live in societies that never universalized civil society in order to maintain a persecuted underclass of affordable labor. It's time everyone lived under the same law, as was the initial promise.

[@LionElAton]

This is both wholly uncharitable, and objectively false. Everything the wealthy do is not toward the goal of accumulating more wealth. If that were the case, so many of the world’s richest people wouldn’t give away so much of their money. Beyond that, many wouldn’t take on challenges that are far more difficult with lower chances of success than other endeavors that are far easier and would make way more money, like continuing to do what made them rich in the first place. Going to space and creating electric cars and doing philanthropy are all terrible plans to do if your sole goal or primary aim is to accumulate wealth. You cannot assume to know every wealthy person’s motivations, and if you do, your assumptions would be both wrong, and inherently ignorant.

[@djeang10]

I wanted to be convinced but was not one bit. Surprised and appalled that these smart individuals in their positions could be so narrow-minded. By "we" they really refer to the top echelon of society who hold power. The rest of us are f*cked unless something is done about the imbalance and inequality.

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

You trippin. If you commenting on a KZbin video, congratulations! In you’re in the top echelon of society!

[@djeang10]

I don't think internet access is the encompassing measure of wellbeing you make it out to be. There are plenty of people living in relative poverty who still have smartphones and data, who nobody would consider in the societal elite class. Yes, I'm more fortunate than a lot of people. However, there's a distinction between us and the top 1-2% of the world population who have excess abundance and control over resources/capital/policy. It's not about me, it's more about the millions of people who are disposable afterthoughts in the current way of thinking. @@chelseashurmantine8153

[@Bigobe244]

@@chelseashurmantine8153 not true. Top echelon meaning top 0.001%

[@ayuds7042]

I believe the video aims to provide an alleviation of this sense of despair, to reimplement the sense of humanity and empathy needed to mobilize people that share the same sentiment. On a personal level, embracing optimism and the same values being invoked, I found it a lot easier to not only engage with the issues you mention but step out of the cycle of thought, and tap more into the excitement and opportunity that means reform, reconciliation, realignment. This video sorta feels like a heads up and advice in dealing with the seemingly endless bombardment of arbitrary obligations to appease someone else’s “future” as mentioned in the video.

[@SuddenPaintball]

@@chelseashurmantine8153half the world is connected to the internet… unfortunately it’s not the most privileged 50% that command influence and power, but the top .05%.

[@waltermeerschaert]

Last fall I walked through Cheesman Park in Denver and there were several people, obviously volunteers, all doing one thing, planting trees. Most of these folks will never experience these trees in all their magnificent mature glory. I congratulated and thanked them for their acts of optimism.

[@bargdaffy1535]

Hopium, you cannot get out of Climate Chaos by planting trees. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@hana-ov1ju]

@bargdaffy1535 better than doing nothing

[@christinearmington]

Both of these.

[@bargdaffy1535]

@@hana-ov1ju Not really. Planting Trees does nothing unless you are decreasing GHG emissions. We have had trees for the last 100 years, chopping them down is not what is causing climate chaos, GHG emissions are.

[@mizaelenciel]

A beautiful act, it may help those people to sleep at night, but the doom is still coming. We have serious industrial problems. We need to rethink our economic and social values.

[@djohnspangler]

The problem with corporate visionaries is that they look to a world where there are more consumers living longer lives and disregarding that even through all of their past technological breakthroughs, we live in a world that is closer to the brink. The balance of nature is antithetical to human conquest.

[@LukasNajjar]

We are nature.

[@djohnspangler]

@@LukasNajjar Doesn’t mean shit to a tree.

[@360.Tapestry]

@@djohnspangler hahaha is that supposed to be a profound statement? because a tree doesn't mean shit to a rock

[@salemyankton]

@@360.Tapestry What a wild chain of comments

[@360.Tapestry]

@@salemyankton they're on the brink, i tell you!

[@twilight79010]

*Four passengers on the Titanic tell us why we're totally not about to hit an iceberg.* _Iconic._

[@DrDavidThor]

Icon plus iron: ironic.

[@brianhirt5027]

How many actual doomsdays have the doom prognosticators forecast *actually* came true? Your statement is false just based on track record alone. We're not on the titanic. The only self fulfilling prophecy that's guaranteed is the one where you give up.

[@harveytheparaglidingchaser7039]

😅😅😅

[@very_tall_dude]

More like four passengers on the lifeboat telling the rest of the people on the ship not to worry, the Titanic is unsinkable. It’s a technological marvel!

[@seanrrr]

Lol. And it's not just four random passengers, it's the Titanic's marketing team.

[@l4zrh4wk]

Telling us what we should do doesn't prevent what's actually happening from happening

[@Jan96106]

Your comments should have more thumbs up.

[@gorgeousguerilla]

Cool video, but still shows only one perspective of middle-aged, well-established men earning money in service of big business and the government. I would say that the impact of my actions means nothing compared to that made by the top 1% of beneficiaries of the global economic system.

[@DrDavidThor]

16:40 "more choices in the world" and the stock image is one of those disheartening traffic cloverleafs that remind us how we screwed up and opted for car culture and we're just going around in circles, and "choices" aren't real choices, they're between one grubby thing and another. Choice has become fatigue.

[@christophercelmer405]

So the capitalist system isn't creating problems, its creating opportunities out of the problems they created... Sounds about right😂

[@tuckerbugeater]

What system has proven more successful?

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@tuckerbugeater What is your definition of success? Is it "a few on the top get a ton of stuff and power and everyone else is their serf"? Then unfettered capitalism is the most successful. If the definition is, "every human is housed, fed, and reasonably content with life, and plants, animals, insects are thriving in the clean air, earth, and water" then capitalism is probably not the most successful. Maybe it's time we stopped looking to the past for models. Maybe it's time to try something new, if that second definition is appealing.

[@---Dana----]

Bigger is not better. Some countries are too big. Many companies are too big. Many religions and institutions are too big. Things get impersonal, people become unimportant and change cannot take place in a reasonable time frame. It's like turning an aircraft carrier. It takes forever. We cannot help ourselves from repeating our past. We are doomed by our very nature. Some will survive and then we'll start over again. It's what we do.

[@ncedwards1234]

Yeah, I keep asking myself "When does growth become cancerous?" and the truth is pretty unsettling, but even worse is what will happen if everyone stays ignorant of it. I think harmony is what brings happiness, not synchronization and not suppression.

[@tyranmcgrath6871]

What's your difference between harmony and synchronisation?

[@tyranmcgrath6871]

​@@ncedwards1234What's your difference between harmony and synchronisation?

[@mrdeanvincent]

​@@tyranmcgrath6871 I'm not the person you asked but to me synchronisation suggests different things coming together for a more uniform result, while harmonisation suggests different things coming together for a richer result. Or to put it another way, synchrony is related to entropy and harmony is related to 'emergence' (I use emergence in the systems theory sense). The former results in a lower-energy state, while the latter results in a higher-energy state. Or... synchrony is not inherently negative or positive, but harmony has positive connotations.

[@brekenwallar8144]

@@ncedwards1234 growth becomes cancer when things are growing for the purpose of growing and no other reason

[@craigmerkey8518]

I always enjoy your videos. What I have learned in my 35 + years employed in the same industry is that people and corporations most often have very different values! The pursuit of profits as the primary goal and commoditizing basic needs is at odds with supporting workers/people.

[@zomgoose]

I remember them telling us that we would soon be working 20-hour work weeks. Many people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to pay rent. There will be no retirement for the vast majority of the younger generation. The middle class is being wiped out.

[@brianhirt5027]

You seem to have glossed over all the things that did come true to favor the things that didn't. You're telling us more about you than you are about them.

[@zomgoose]

@@brianhirt5027 Why are you attacking me for pointing out these facts?

[@brianhirt5027]

@@zomgoose Because to only focus on what didn't happen while ignoring what did is self serving and agenda feeding, at BEST. I mean, you could have noted that more people lifted out of poverty in the past seventy years than in all of collective recorded history. You could have noted that child mortality went from 3 out 5 dying before age ten to 7 in 100 the same span. You could have noted that clean drinking water became ubiquitous in many parts of the world or that militarized interstate actions became a rarity for the first time in history. You could have mentioned us sending men to the moon, or rovers to crawl over examining mars. The fact that in a majority of the world isn't starving to death, ALSO unparalleled in history. Vaccines to cures for diseases that literally plagued our species for millenia. But no. You chose to focus on purely negative elements that support your forgone conclusion. WHILE perpetuating myths of what our future now holds.

[@zomgoose]

@@brianhirt5027 We live in the now, not the past. Things have been on a downward spiral over the last 15 years for the younger generation. No one is thinking about how great the moon landing was, when they are on the verge of homelessness. The West is currently on a bad trajectory/ that needs to change. Debt is out of control, which has led to inflation. A lot of mismanagement and kicking the can down the road. This is the reality. You choose to ignore the problems of today. It is this kind of thinking that got us into this mess.

[@brianhirt5027]

@@zomgoose Downward spiral? According to whom? ALL of history is full of ups & downs occurring at the same time in different places. What'd you expect? To be the ONE exception? How is the west in a bad trajectory? Not from where *I* sit. We're defeating Russia w/o even having to directly engage it, China is quickly slipping into economic free for all. We're still the sole superpower on earth and we somehow navigated a stimulus package that wasn't followed by a recession. For The FIRST time a country has EVER done that in economic history. Our military is building 6th generation air superiority when everyone else is still struggling to onboard 5th gen. We're poised to maintain our world dominate spot for many decades to come. I could keep this list going for pages. LITERALLY could. There's two or three dozen other blessings we enjoy RIGHT THIS SECOND I can think of right off the top of my head. Yeah, we have problems. Nobody ever doesn't. But they're solvable problems. Jaysus. Get some motherfucking perspective, man.

[@armandbourque2468]

Watching members of the most protected, prosperous and privileged generation of humans trying to convince themselves and us that the titanic isn't sinking, or if it is, there is enough lifeboats, and if there isn't enough lifeboats, all the right people will have a place. And that the tools and concepts of people who have never been without options will solve the problem of overpopulation and overconsumption.

[@CyanCooper]

Pro tip: if you want to solve the problems being created by unregulated capitalism, don’t ask someone in love with it.

[@jacquesvincelette6692]

Sad how "debunking" does not mead much anymore. The circular argument for progress suggests we might have reached the end of the line.

[@Here4TheHeckOfIt]

This makes perfect sense.

[@brianhirt5027]

Even more pro-tip. Any poorly managed system is ripe for abuse. Just ask Kazakstan about their time being owned by the USSR. The problems Moscow created I guaranTEE had nothing to do with capitalism. Go take a course in macroeconomics, kid. You're just parroting a fashionable complaint.

[@jacquesvincelette6692]

Macro economics as the foundation for our modern global Ponzi pyramid shows how debt can dig deeper. We confound profitable as sustainable.

[@sombNOW]

"regulations slow down growth" - daaaamm i cannot produce unsafe cars and advance the technology (get more $$$) because of the regulatiioooonss

[@mpetry912]

Great video, really got a lot out of it. I am sceptical about the assertion that "technology will save us". Unfortunately there are many established structures, namely governments and major corporations, that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Oil and pharmaceutical companies for example. They have captured the regulatory process and will work actively to prevent any "progress" towards a better world that does not include a perpetuation of their profit - making position. And, final point - continued exponential growth on a finite planet is unsustainable and ultimately leads to disaster.

[@Dtaysh]

Yes, true. But if we’re all dead then there’s no quo to status…so in one way established structures have a vested interest in assuring that our future is sustainable able to maintain our existence.

[@Bigobe244]

@@Dtaysh established structures do not have a vested interest in our future as being sustainable, they have a vested interest in maintaining power even if that means being unsustainable. Nice try

[@theoryfound]

@@Dtaysh I'm not sure how established structures have our best interest in mind. Our personal data is being sold left and right. Corporations look at human lives as a commodity. Homelessness and drug use are at all time highs. Cost of living is continuing to increase while we have to fight for living wages. Fascism somehow found its way on the main stage of US politics. Fear mongering has been used to push harmful rhetoric throughout the US. Citizens are divided over basic human rights. I can go on and on, established structures only care about maintaining the status quo. Any real change will come as a result of mass protest - just like every other landmark decision made throughout history.

[@Bigobe244]

@@theoryfound it's a strange mind block that is easy to stumble on

[@iceman18211]

Technology doesn't need to save us, life is already great and can only get better :)

[@abody499]

These are more "visionaries" who ignore or have limited understanding of the physical reality we live in. I think the correct word is "charlatan".

[@PillarsOfHeaven]

Modern "doomerism" is centered around environmental problems; something this video skirts. Probably gonna stop watching this channel, lots of words but little content in what amounts to ads

[@abody499]

​ @PillarsOfHeaven yeah, and more knowledge of earth systems than the species has ever had. In other words, it's based on a high level of understanding of reality. I only watch to see what is being advertised to the masses.

[@ScarryGargoyle]

I get that this channel is mixed with a whole punch of propaganda. I understand the video is just a bunch of ideas I understand reality very well, I live on this earth; and see as much atrocities the same as you. What’s with the nihilism. I contemplate suicide often, but i don’t want the entire human species too just punch them selves into non existence. I want too live, I want too see the world until MY END. I want too see my family live, and be happy. Why is it that, when someone says we could all come together and make things great again so unrealistic? Of course it’s unrealistic when you’re just looking at those words. However- if every women, man, child, black, Asian, Hispanic, indigenous person came together- (I’m missing some people I know,) if we all started communicating, instead of thinking the other side is evil, ideas will form. We can find a way to combat all of the things that are making us miserable today. It’s big companies, that’s all it is. They run our lives- if we can eradicate the evil in our society, and let the good prosper… I wonder if their would be so much nihilism. We’re all miserable and depressed, and they keep us in this bubble of thinking we’re too fucked too fix anything… don’t you think that’s a coincidence. They want us too be comfortable in our misery, and too divide us… to keep us from realizing we all more similar values than you think. It’s how they make money. They profit off the division. I believe that capitalism can work; but obviously it’s not working right now. It’s just too easy too create monopolies in which run our government that go unseen or unpunished. That’s the starting point I believe. We’re all in this together; despite what the internet tells you.

[@abody499]

​ @ScarryGargoyle anyone who is "pro capitalism" cannot "understand reality very well".

[@ScarryGargoyle]

@@abody499 I mean, I don’t understand. Communism, socialism, a dictatorships like North Korea… they all don’t work; or end up resulting too capitalism. Capitalism can be equally as devastating- like we’re literally seeing right now. I know there’s gotta be a different way to do things- but right now capitalism, before monopolies makes the most sense to make too structure a society. If you could tell me why it’s not- I’m open to understanding. None of these ways of governing has ever worked. So, what should we do?

[@lovman]

For "Big Think" to live up to its name, particularly as it relates to the future and a claim in the title of "debunking" something not defined, but labled as "doomerism", which allows the viewer to supply their own imaginations, then BT should offer a range of views on the systemic issues of what has been called the metacrisis or polycrisis, with real discussions of what these issues are, why people are concerned, and a range or opttimism and pessimism that people may choose based on what society is doing relative to these threats. When speaking of these systemic issues, Jamie Wheal, who Big Think has previously interviewed, recently discussed the NOLS risk pyramid looking at Objective and Subjective Hazards (short and long term) and humanity's Risk Tolerance. The first two "techo optimists" featured here are of course going to provide the "technology will save us" because their paychecks require they do so, and because, as the argument goes, it always has. Big Think can do better than this. Change the title and the video works.

[@chumbokong2638]

So, doomerism grows because we compare the current times to the past. Objectively speaking, we can afford way less even though we are way more productive compared to any time in human history, people are divided more than ever (politics, religion etc.), more wars, most likely irreversible climate change and much more. These problems take a lot of time to solve. So, how likely is it that those problems are getting resolved in our life time? No one knows, and no one can tell us for certain. People don’t like a maybe things will get resolved situation, they want to know for certain. The uncertainty hinders every aspect about major decisions we have for the future our lives. People think we are fucked because no one can tell us for certain that we are not fucked.

[@robertdouglas8895]

We went through this the last century with a pandemic at the 20 year mark and an ego centered decade of the 20's. We have to hit bottom to want to change and that other people are not making us sick and unhappy, we are. Two world wars finally brought us together to have a couple of peaceful decades when I was growing up. Then we questioned the status quo and went through some unsettling years to find that peace is not dependent on the world but it's within ourselves regardless what is happening in the world.

[@2CSST2]

I think your comparison to the past is very superficial and overall just wrong about the point at hand which is general quality of life. Probably, you also compare to recent past, which is a point addressed in the video, bumps and forks (which a global pandemic, global supply chain short term shock, a recession AND big wars definitely are and definitely bias the short term towards "things are getting worse") happen but we're talking about the overall trend over longer periods of time. For a more thorough analysis about how things are right now compared to the past, see Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature which completely debunks the myth of "The good old days", going as far into the past as you'd like.

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@2CSST2 Your state of mind determines how happy you are, not outer conditions.

[@FaithflNdscreet]

Either way, you said it yourself, we have to work more to make less. I'd say we're already fucked

[@prophecyrat2965]

@@robertdouglas8895you need food water and air and the freedom to roam the Earth. Dont be a fool.

[@DrDavidThor]

__ Not kidding, I laughed more at this than if I'd been watching Dave Chapelle. The most unintentionally funny video of the year. Max cringe value.

[@DetectiveTrupo203]

You're super triggered lmfao

[@Allenmarshall]

Came here to see people pretending to be experts... Was not disappointed.

[@alst4817]

Interesting fact: “futurist” is actually pronounced ‘snake oil salesman’

[@christinearmington]

Interesting fact: real snake oil actually worked 😉

[@burnyizland]

And what is this b.s. you're selling?

[@brekenwallar8144]

futurists didn't guarantee an outcome in this video like a snake oil salesman would and i think that is an important distinction

[@tuckerbugeater]

How would a futurist predict a pandemic if they weren't told one was going to be released? @@brekenwallar8144

[@rgzhaffie]

I applaud Kevin Kelly's observations about the Amish and their collective, rational, and deliberative approach to technology, but for that very reason, I take issue with his final remarks extolling "choices". Because the experience of the Amish, in contrast to the direction of Western civilization as a whole, demonstrates NOT how great having an abundance of "choices" is, but the importance of choosing wisely, with a view towards our communities and our whole society. Because there are vast numbers of choices, but the immense majority of them lead to ruin, and only a few of them lead to happiness. Because, quite simply, the requirements for true human happiness don't vary nearly as much between individuals as the superabundance of available choices falsely suggests.

[@MaryMPringle]

The idea of "living so much better" troubles me if it means more consumption, more garbage, more meat-rich diets and food waste, more ways to treat illnesses that are created by industrial pollution. We have been imagining peace forever, and we are still using war. I hope AI has better sense.

[@freigeistvonlebenskunst1982]

As an ALTERNATIVE FUTURIST I would call the vast majority of nowadays futurists payed optimists, who try to paint the image of a bright future for a system, that's already failing NOW. In none of their predictions one will find such potential factors like empoverished populations come with pitchforks for their parasitic elites or that the old system first has to collapse completely to create free space for a new one to thrive. The thrivers meanwhile are building parallel societies, creating meaningfull new paragigms and practical projects in underground subcultures. They're the most real futurists one can find currently in the decaying West.

[@Emerie_Bieds]

"proving doomerism wrong" does not address doomerism and only shows old dudes with no stake in the future

[@albertoburquez1269]

I was asked to watch this video featuring four technocrats oblivious of the enormous population pressure taking a gigantic share of the environment. Forgetting about global climate change, loss of biodiversity, crumbling society and life-sustaining natural resources. Loss of time.

[@brianhirt5027]

Then you only listened to your fears. Not a single word that was spoken to you in this video.

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@brianhirt5027 To ignore the things albertoburquez pointed out is to ignore reality. To ignore possibilities is also to ignore reality. If you create solutions without looking at the problems AND the possibilities you waste time; the rubber will never hit the road. All the dogmatic "positivity" in the world will not change that fact.

[@brianhirt5027]

@@sundayoliver3147 Sure. But to ONLY look at the negative just removes any motivation to try and change things. Or do anything period besides sit around moping. NOR does it reflect the world accurately. What makes these mens views any less valid? Because they're associated with tech? BFD. We're a species that depends on our tools & technology. We always have. Trying to disqualify them on those grounds alone is both unfair & patiently ridiculous. It's a blatant guilt-by-loose-association bias.

[@aethellstan]

from my experience it's only those with a good financial future (middle class etc) can look towards the future, those who don't have a secure financial position are far too worried about food, shelter etc to be looking to the future

[@gmenezesdea]

To quote from Earthbound: "You guys can't envision the final collapse of capitalism? Incredible!"

[@abody499]

"the future" is "not a noun: it's actually a verb" OK, big tongue, and I'm a preposition.

[@ncedwards1234]

Yeah, I preferred the next part when he says "it's something we make." Which kinda sounds like a noun, but whatever lol.

[@abody499]

​ @ncedwards1234 I mean the clue is in "something". It's literally an abstract noun. But these fantasists always just try to invent their own language in an attempt to sound interesting and profound.

[@sidn515]

The arc of human progress is NOT assured at all, it's extremely fragile!

[@ScarryGargoyle]

It is super fragile, but that’s why we need too take care of each-other.

[@fridgemagnet9831]

The trend is up but the blips on the way is the painful part.

[@Bigobe244]

@@fridgemagnet9831 the trend is down my friend. Humans are not exceptional or separate from nature. The biophysical systems are collapsing right now. Take heed.

[@Bigobe244]

@@geocam2 hilarious, almost doubled over laughing

[@2CSST2]

It's actually much more resilient than you think. Even if we TRIED to stop progress, we couldn't.

[@Foxyfoxy9293]

Stay positive, keep buying stuff, pump sales and comporations with money 🤑💰😃

[@shamhi_thewatcher]

There is no hope as long as all this knowledge is being used by big corporates for their own benefits, and altogether bad for the world.

[@ivanfreely6366]

@@geocam2 Not just stocks but using services such as insurance. Most of the time we're forced by law to use such services.

[@pinchebruha405]

Shareholders are a big problem

[@cherylcarlson3315]

This was a breath of fresh air for me. All my life was trying to figure where my mind should focus... love sustainable ag, healthcare, sociology,city planning, architecture, some social work and political advocacy. So at 66 I find there is a niche where my "useless information" could have been appreciated.

[@saralamuni]

People think: 'This world is in a great fire. The end is coming.' but really this world of mine is peaceful. It is filled with gods and good people. Its gardens, forests, and palaces are adorned with treasures; gem trees have fruits and flowers; living beings are enjoying themselves; and the gods are beating heavenly drums, pouring music and mandarava blossoms on the Buddha and all assembled beings.

[@summondadrummin2868]

If Humans aren't peaceful and happy on the inside no amount of technological capacity will make us happy. The externally driven world completely misses the point that life is significantly an inside job.

[@no-ic5gw]

Right after telling us we need to work harder, longer, past retirement because "economy not as good 😢". This channel is full of backhanded cope.

[@marshall4439]

The second guy marvels at the destruction of landscapes in order to build factories, seeing it as a wondrous good. This is the problem with Big Think and the tech obsessed people it promotes - they have absolutely no care for the natural world. They see a forest and think of how it isn’t being ‘productive’. He describes these villages without technology with great pity, but how do we know that the lives of those people has been improved with the arrival of industrial capitalism?

[@mizaelenciel]

If we don't stop consumerism and the mentality of accumulation, we'll be doomed no matter what. Therefore, if capitalism doesn't stop, all this talking is nonsense. We already have the technology, knowledge, and resources to go on, but we need to stop our focus on material beings, productivity, and accumulation. We need to focus on people, not consumers.

[@theVoid524]

This is a great example of why you should be very careful who you listen to. What makes these people qualified to talk about any of this shit? Because they rode a bicycle in India? Because they can "imagine the future?" Because they wrote a book that nobody will read? Listen to people who are actually educated.

[@creatingyourlifestyle4898]

One of my biggest fears is that we as humans forget how to make complex things and some of the basic things. To explain this, while oversimplifying, Imagine having ten small piles of rocks. Each pile is different and comes from different regions of the world. Through a series of complex procedures, each pile of rock is transferred into a unique material. Shazam! now you have toasters, TVs, computers, shoes, housing materials, car components, spaceships, writing utensils.

[@slaman721]

the fact these people think more about space travel and robots than the people literally dying from hunger, which is something materially solvable since the 70s, just pisses me off so much. they just refuse to see we need a better way to allocate resources in our world, and that the people who benefit from it will do all they can so it continues to be this way. to be optimistic is to expect war, expect that the oppressed will fight the oppressors and hopefully, eventually win. that is why nobody in their right mind should be happy about what is to come.

[@DrDavidThor]

__ They made this into an attack from the get-go with the incendiary "debunking" and by using the name-calling with "doomerism." If it had been "four futurists on ways in which we're not actually effed," they might have had a more receptive audience. Optimism's a tough sell if you start by attacking people. --Thor

[@Daoland-Everywhere]

Ari Wallach is wrong at his starting point, where he suggested that in ancient times people did only think shortemistic. If they came across a fruittree they wouldn't just eat from them, they remembered where the tree is, and returned there again the next fruit season, or for other trees the leaf season, or for medicine the root season, or other parts of particular trees. So longtermism is part of our biology. But consumerism and propaganda distract us and suggest seductive scenarios. These shortemisms that are offered us create distopias and break the normal flow of empathic social development. The future is generated by people, and business leaders and many other professions are just parasitic on it because of their shortemism

[@ywtcc]

There's all kinds of hypothetical, and historical scenarios when great social progress and great social tragedy are not at all contradictory observations. In America, we're currently facing an obstructionist government that couldn't keep up with social change in the 1860s, and with little hope it will in the 2060s. Also, a business community that has gone multinational and now claims to be foreign for tax evasion purposes. The government's, and the business communities' responses to the pandemic amounted to bullying and gaslighting the working class into slavery, with no reward. If you're not essential, you should consider that you may be a parasite living under totalitarian Communism. Because it looks an awful lot like that to an awful lot of people. The MSM's failure to report on the suspension of workers rights, including the breakdown in critical governmental institutions designed to enforce workers rights, amounts to a human rights violation. You can't be this ignorant and dishonest and think you're not damaging the people in your audience with intelligence. The doomerism around the inflexibility and dishonesty of our institutions is real, and correct, and the social tragedies currently unfolding in the march to multinational corporate autocracy are a result of that. America has more means and material wealth than it ever has. Its problems are self created, resulting from undemocratic, irresponsive, reactionary authority in government and in business, then filibustered and lobbied into tradition by the most mentally inflexible people in society.

[@whatsupbudbud]

While I don't disagree with most of what you said, I do see a lot of positive. I self-taught software, got work in the field, can work remotely from almost anywhere, can spend time at home with family more, don't have to breathe toxic city air as much, et cetera. When I was a kid in the 90's, information was just becoming accessible for keen students. Now it is ubiquitous and low hanging fruit. So I tread lightly, am cautious, especially since I live in one of the countries which Russia is looking to annex next, but am optimistic nonetheless.

[@JT.Pilgrim]

If we run out of time are effed up. You can’t ignore the obvious. We have never had the ability to actually destroy our planet in an instant if we make an unintended error.

[@rainmanjr2007]

I have learned that a generation=20 years and it takes only three of them to go from idea implementation, through conversation of the idea as results play out, to rejection and "improvement" of the idea. I was born early in 1959, which ushered in our last great social upheavals, so this intertidal event is right on time. I feel no longer concerned for this mythical period called "future." Logically there will be a final generation but that will be significant only to that generation (and many will not agree it is happening). Is this one it? I have no idea and will not look for one. I will focus on this tidepool.

[@richardallan2767]

The reason we have such a great life right now, is because of the massive overuse of resources and related impacts. And i don't know if you have got this yet, but we can't carry that on. So the problem is how we use less, as quickly and fairly as possible. We must contract and consolidate. So that either means we make more people, and they have less and less, or we chose to have less kids, and thus allow them to have more and more. And obviously make sure a small number of people don't keep all the resources while we have to work more, for less. As we do right now. The long view is essential, but unless we finally start acting now, i doubt we have 50 years.

[@travdaddy11]

I grew up in Eastern Kentucky in the 1908's and 1990's and during these times the coal mines shut down and the population shrunk. My elementary, middle, and high school no longer exist and have been merged into other, smaller, buildings. Prosperity has never been a given in places like this. Great video.

[@travdaddy11]

@@geocam2 I am part of that tradition. I moved to Chicago to find a better life (and I have).

[@TigerLilly4495]

Appalachia is beginning to reinvent itself and to pave a brighter future. I've seen it where I live (West Virginia) and it is very apparent that despite huge challenges over the last few decades and centuries, many areas of Appalachia are slowly (key word) being revitalized and reimagined. I have hope that Appalachia will finally someday be healed, it's land and people

[@leonelliott5090]

This didn't debunk anything. It was just four guys saying, "Oh, I think everything will be fine!" I hope they're right, but they didn't offer any hard arguments to support their contention.

[@stoneytheclown]

People love thinking they know their own doom. They think they're so smart

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

lol it makes me think of the vibe “god doesn’t want you to kill yourself. He wants to kill you in his own, special way”

[@LORKASWE]

These people claim to be very open minded and accepting, while in reality they are blind to the facts, and only create the problems they so desperately "trying" to address.

[@kaanmn]

that was the last drop for me, goodbye bigthink

[@CousinsandWe]

People are falling into doomerism because they see these technologies and know that just like access to affordable housing, quality food, and medical care will often be a luxury reserved for a select few. Genetics research leading to longer lives? Everyone's lives or the wealthy?

[@yup8865]

We need to evolve our communities. Companies need to adapt to a more open social community that is run by the people. We are a tribal social species, and I believe that is where we find our strength.

[@seanrrr]

Unfortunately, I can't take these guys seriously. As members of high-ranking institutions and corporations, everything they say is going to be filtered through a lens of optimism and profitability. You don't look your employer in the eye and tell them they're f*cked, you come up with a way to strategize around it and turn everything into a positive. We're not going to solve the world's current problems with corporate strategies. We need a massive cultural and political shift to change from a "profit-over-everything" capitalist focus to improvement of human lives. And it's 100% achievable. Like the guy said at the end, we were told it would take 4 years to develop a covid vaccine at the standard rate, and what do you know, when you throw a bunch of money at a problem, you solve it in record time. It's not like we were unable to solve that issue. All the technology and knowledge was there, there was just no financial incentive to solve it until it threatened the global economy. A lot of other issues are the same way. We have more than enough food to feed the world, more than enough buildings to house everyone, more than enough money floating around to give everyone a decent life. But unless it's profitable for someone, it's not going to happen. Corporate futurists will NEVER suggest anything that means a decrease in profitability. That's what we need though. And I'm not even saying we need to redistribute wealth or dissolve these big corporations either. Just stop this endless cycle of more and more and more profit. A modern company can be making a billion dollars revenue a year, but it's considered a failure if that number isn't growing. Hell, a lot of companies consider 5% growth per year a failure. That's where the true issue lies. They're not focused on improving anyone's life, just sucking more and more money. They're incentivized to maintain things the way they are, as that's what gaining them profit now. And futurists are hired to keep it that way.

[@triplikeido75]

These guys are all stoned out of their minds on hopeium. It feels nice to believe everything is gonna be okay.. pretty much like believing I'mma goto heaven and chill with Jeebus for eternity when I die. 🖖

[@brianhirt5027]

No, they base that hope on history. To date, how many of the doom prophets have been right? How many society shattering, civilization predicted doomsdays *actually* came true? ...I rest my case. Listen to something besides your fears, chum.

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@brianhirt5027 Well, sure, if living through another Ice Age, Plague, Hundred Years War, and the bulk of history and the present where most people were worked to death by the few wealthy is appealing to you...because while what you say is true, all that is part of history, too. One does not negate the other. Maybe those doomful predictions, which I agree appear with ridiculous regularity in history, were because people were miserable in the lives they had, and saw that as an out? Maybe if life wasn't made so miserable for people by people, we would have fewer doomsaying predictions?

[@brianhirt5027]

@@sundayoliver3147 We're still here. Aren't we? Do you have the SLIGHTEST conception how ubiquitous doomers have been in every recorded age? Every single one of them convinced and/or predatorily convincing others that the end is nigh? I'm guessing you don't. Doomerism is just an expression of our biological drift to risk aversion that you are clearly still governed by. If you want to relentlessly focus on the purely negative, that's all you will surely see. That doesn't make you a realist. Just a miserabilist.

[@thenightwatchman1598]

@@brianhirt5027 yeah. but history isnt an exact science. its barely a science at all...

[@brianhirt5027]

@@thenightwatchman1598 Yet despite everything we're still here. Civilization still moves on. A lot of misery is self imposed. Surround a dedicated miserblist with every favor, every need met and they will still whine. People who want to be miserable will always find some excuse to be that way. The burdens of your average human even a hundred and fifty years ago would be considered barbaric by modern standards. Equity is found over time & generations. It's not an instant thing. Nor can it fit everyones narrow description of what it must be. People today are surrounded by wealth & options & capabilities that were regarded as utopian impossibilities just a handful of generations prior.

[@Dacrada]

While it is interesting to hear from older, affluent literati - it would be equally interesting to hear from the young teacher, mechanic or retail clerk - and their perspectives. It is unavoidable in the medium to hear from any other type of person, but the message suffers as none look to be young people suffering today. The future will be inhabited by the overwhelmingly average - and half worse than them - and that future will struggle with whatever "better" turns out to be.

[@maryleigh8990]

What I am hearing is this. Futurist of the past are how we got here.

[@UntitledNextIteration]

The top comments are making me more optimistic about the future than anything suggested by these “futurists.” People are waking tf up. Hopefully, revolution & liberation will soon follow. We’re not at all there yet, and it’ll be a ROUGH transition (to say the least), but the new paradigm-a more compassionate, collaborative, self-empowered, informed collective, focused on equity, justice, sustainability, spiritual enrichment, love for each other and our planet-is showing itself more everyday, and it’s beautiful to see.

[@0zmose]

This is so stupid. They speak with that deluded view that history and progress are some linear path that only leads to more prosperity. I imagine you'd hear the same kind of tripe from people at the height of the Roman Empire. Do you think that philosophy was shared by the people stacking plague riddled corpses a few centuries later in the dark ages? History is cyclical. People have either forgotten or ignored the brutal lessons of the past. Because of that they've grown decadent and selfish, and just like the Romans, they're predestined to drive us into a new dark age.

[@issigonis975]

Not the history I did at university they clearly teach a very different curriculum these days. There is no cycle to history unless all knowledge is wiped out and we start again. The Bronze Age collapse nobody is sure of why but was local, the Dark Ages was local. Was the Roam empire at it's height any less selfish that the fall? We view the past according to our world view and are not outside history ourselves to give an objective opinion. I would not read Edward Gibbon to learn about Roman history...

[@0zmose]

@@issigonis975 Locality has little to do with it. Rise and collapse is the common thread running through every empire. From the Inca to the Mongolians. To think America is any different is pure hubris. The difference now is, everyone is deeply intertwined with us in one form or another, so when we go we’re dragging nearly everyone else down with us.

[@issigonis975]

@@0zmose I never mention the US? The rise and fall of empires is not what this doomist issue is about. We are talking about humanity as a whole. One glaring example is the climate issue where one side denies it is a real thing and the other it is everything and the end of civilisation is coming. All those empires came and went including my country but the change was gradual and with no major issue. Rome did not fall over night it gave rise to Europe and Byzantium the new Rome. Doomist are the bane of progress.

[@0zmose]

@@issigonis975 If you want to talk about humanity as a whole it's even worse. If Doomers are the bane of progress, optimists are the bane of life itself. I've never heard an optimist share their view of the next Carrington Event for a reason. You know, that thing that is inevitably going to wipe out all that progress and boot us back to the 1800s. The thing we are absolutely 100% positive is going to happen again, and when it does it will likely result in billions of people starving to death. There's absolutely things we could do to protect ourselves from it, but it would be expensive. Besides, that would be such a "doomer" thing to do. Better to just roll the dice, right? You can scoff all you want at the people trying to warn you, but don't you dare expect their help if things get bad. You are absolutely undeserving of it.

[@coleary1968]

“Corporate Futurists” The future is looking bright!! (For corporations)💀

[@reynoldsmathey]

Doom grifting has become a lucrative path for many in the media and we're all sick of it.

[@vitamaltz]

I don’t know if the Peter Gabriel anecdote is real or not, but it’s dumb. CDs came out years before anyone had CD-RW drives. What did CDs replace? Cassette tapes, the most easily replicable form of music recording until the MP3. The Grateful Dead started allowing bootleg taping of their shows in the 1960s, realizing their future was in live performance. This wasn’t something first thought of by Peter Gabriel in 1990. But the anecdote seems appropriate for how out of touch these futurists are.

[@pokerbob8039]

Brought to you by the most culturally diverse big thinkers in the world....

[@audibledarkness]

😉 I kept looking for 'others' other than background extras. Still, Ari Wallach (Joe Pesci's left brain) resonated; "plant trees whose shade we'll never know."

[@unclebearsrodeo1997]

This.💯

[@vitamaltz]

I could only tell the difference between Dudes 1, 2, and 4 by their beard styles.

[@jimcameron9848]

Time traveller here: the truth is the sound of a bubble popping.

[@jenna2431]

Humans have to ignore our negativity bias. The first step is to understand that it exists and is extremely influential in human thinking.

[@flickwtchr]

So, it's that simple eh?

[@mabus4910]

"I study the future so that people today can make better decisions". Assuming people make informed decisions is a rooky mistake.

[@831Miranda]

For now, most of us worldwide do still have some agency (we can vote, plant a tree somewhere, extend a hand to someone in need). The most challenging issue I currently see is getting people to acknowledge their agency and the real power of a large group working together for a common goal. The second big challenge is educating the disempowered. We NEED to change our economic system and politics, perhaps something like Ecological Humanism? Ensuring the preservation of all life in the planet,because yes its all interconnected, And ensuring that all humans have access to the knowledge and technologies that improve quality of life and well being. In the context of the US, it will never again be a good place to live, if there is an ever increasing number of people discarded by society as a whole. The US needs to provide for ALL its people a truly good life and revert the current trend of 'inequality for all' in a massive way!

[@kitsune.422]

I’d like to respectfully push back on one of the last points that there will be more depressed single women because of hypergamy. On the contrary, the demographic that reports general happiness is single women lol. Women who have dated “unsuccessfully” typically have stronger relationships and community bonds. The reason women “date up” is on an instinctual level, “higher value men” are often perceived as better providers, husbands, and fathers to their future children.

[@Marina-wi3rs]

I like that these futurists are optimistic. Considering they are being consulted by large companies to make decisions, wouldn't we want that to have positivity?

[@thelordoftime803]

Um, not really, if I want problem solvers, I get them negativistic as shit, because the optimists tend to bet on success rather than make it happen.

[@Bigobe244]

@@thelordoftime803 optimists also bet on 'business as usual' and human exceptionalism

[@ivanfreely6366]

Corporations hire them for one purpose. It's to accumulate more wealth which will give them more control.

[@DrDavidThor]

__ Treeplanting is bullcrap. It's a way we justify endless logging. If we understood how forest FLOORS worked, we wouldn't keep reciting nonsense about treeplanting.

[@melusine826]

4 white men (3 old) futurists..... way to represent. Doesn't mean they can't have some valid points, but ....

[@jogiinterim3609]

The systematic escalating annihilation of our base of life for the profits of a few has to be ceased!!! This has to be the priority of everything we do. Sadly this sentence didn't show up in this segment.

[@artperez999]

The way to improve things is to actually identify and fix the issues; tech enabled invasion of privacy/ip theft, directed energy weapons used on civilians, artificial intelligence developed without rules/reg, inept DOJ/lawlessness, worsening climate change, plutocracy/corruption, etc

[@ScarryGargoyle]

Exactly, and to perhaps rethink the way we allow corporations run our lives.

[@robertdouglas8895]

Climate changes as we leave behind one ice age and go into the next. We thought that was happening from 1940 to 1979 when the earth temperature was decreasing. But then it started going back up.

[@brekenwallar8144]

@@robertdouglas8895 could the climate possibly be changing too fast? I can think of a couple things that humans have done over the past hundred years or so that might accelerate energy absorption from the sun which might increase the rate of climate change.

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@brekenwallar8144 Humans carry around a lot of guilt. Out of that guilt they carry fear. Humans don't like to be the guilty ones so they find ways to pin the guilt onto others. During covid, we could feel guilty for spreading germs. But if we wore masks and got the shot, then we could blame the contagion on others, not ourselves. Of course we found that neither preventative really worked, but people kept believing they did so they could keep blaming the problem on others. With climate change, there are many ways to blame the problem on others, even though there is no way to prove that it is happening. But million of people don't need proof that it's happening just like they didn't need proof that preventative measures worked for covid.

[@dieterheinrich8377]

It is not irrational to fear genuine threats, and no one should try to pacify us with pollyanna-ish feelgoodism or condescending poo-pooing. If the natural world is crashing, we will crash with it, or at best, leave a fragile and impoverished eco-system for the future. The threat of doom is real, and our response to that must be real and robust.

[@PITAProductions]

At least the guy at the end finally says what they're all thinking: that there's too much regulation. Exactly the kind of neoliberal ideology that's accelerating us towards our demise.

[@kastenolsen9577]

If the "powers that be" were removed from the equation we would be living in a much different world. No wars, no strife, etc.

[@elmalifico3708]

I hear a lot of talk of thinking, but there’s never any action to make things better. It’s all action that makes things worse because these folks live in a bubble.

[@mikhelBrown]

All they were saying clearly when over your head. Anyway, Nice Try Einstein ... Smh 😂

[@GlowBowlPhilosophy]

What clearly went over YOUR head,(since we decided to insult strangers,) is that these people make money thinking about the future. Something literally everyone does for free. It's like paying someone millions for throwing a ball... Wait...

[@stoneytheclown]

The doomerism is strong in this one

[@ScarryGargoyle]

So, what are you doing to make a change?

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Collective action, that’s the discussion. We have to think through reconciling the past and imagining the future. Out loud, with others. Thinking and talking IS action

[@TheRealTomWendel]

Those who ignore the ancient lesson of hubris- and historically that’s pretty much everyone, especially the big decision makers- will learn its lessons the hard way. The western model of progress has made incredible inroads since the Enlightenment, but like all civilizations, this one will also reach its limits and fail. The cracks are indeed already showing. Imagining or simply wishing for a good outcome will not make it so. We have become excellent at controlling the external- so much so that the scale of transformation (along with destruction) have exceeded the wildest dreams of a century ago. However, none of this has brought about large scale contentment even as it has relieved us from many discomforts. More of this external control and accompanying attempts to achieve transcendence using these methods are not going to change the results. That can only be achieved when a critical mass of individuals learn internal control by disciplining their own minds. That is the only proven method that brings a peace to our restless discontent, and it doesn’t appear to be recognized or prioritized by nearly enough cultures or people. “In essence, our powers to affect the outer reality have far outstripped our powers over ourselves.” … “If such potentially angry and greedy people as we can be, were, on a fragile planet, to invent nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons of immense mass destruction, put them into the hands of equally un-self-controlled leaders who were then to unleash the unimaginable horrors of the technically-very-possible World War III, which was then to make all life on this planet impossible for hundreds of thousands of years...were that scenario to take place, then, whoever might be left to observe it would rightly say that the Greco-Roman, Euro-American decision to mess around with the environment without understanding and controlling the self was a fatally flawed, foolish, and monstrous decision made by human beings who tragically thought that as Westerners, they were greatest, the smartest on the planet.” portion in quotes by Robert F. Thurman, PhD Key Tsong Khapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies Columbia University from the book ‘Mind Science: An East-West Dialog’ (1991) Chapter 4- Tibetan Psychology: Sophisticated Software for the Human Brain

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

Yes for the future of humanity probably but for current times it's doomer time.

[@babujai1]

I read recently that dystopian stories aren't visions of the future, they're commentaries on our present.

[@sundayoliver3147]

Insightful. And, seems to me, quite true.

[@robertdouglas8895]

We went through this the last century with a pandemic at the 20 year mark and an ego centered decade of the 20's. We have to hit bottom to want to change and that other people are not making us sick and unhappy, we are. Two world wars finally brought us together to have a couple of peaceful decades when I was growing up. Then we questioned the status quo and went through some unsettling years to find that peace is not dependent on the world but it's within ourselves regardless what is happening in the world.

[@gorgeousguerilla]

About what peaceful decades are you talking about? Maybe those in Sudan, Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq?

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@gorgeousguerilla 1945-65 Korea was in there but with no draft and largely hidden.

[@FaithflNdscreet]

That's great. But the newer generations dont have that memory/experience...hence, pending doom

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@FaithflNdscreet Though resistant to "trusting anyone over 30" we still learned from them what stability needs in order to be established.

[@FaithflNdscreet]

@@robertdouglas8895 having the knowledge isn't enough. Motivation is key. Motivation is everything. If and when young men aren't motivated to keep it going anymore then it all comes to a halt

[@lauraw.7008]

8:57 instead of spending more resources on things like space-travel, spend more resources on leveling the playing field; nutrition and safety is critical to brain & personality development, and we need more people with healthy, curious brains. 12:01 have you gone back to check the environment in some ex-rice-paddies? 16:10 problems are valuable; let’s have the wealthiest share their hoarded wealth to make more choices available to more people.

[@guesly-a.coulanges1959]

So its basically a feel good video but for rich people... I love liberalism.....

[@entropy323]

"Don't panic, peasants - or the revolting idea of revolt!"

[@Sheeno101]

If this is the best we can come up with to explain why we're not screwed, then it confirms we really are screwed. 4 men explaining how to use a narrow band of thought to convince yourself things will be fine, rather than actually acknowledging or tackling any of the issues facing us. Yes, the world at large has gained great economic prosperity, particularly over the last couple of hundred years since fossil fuels, but we are only now beginning to see the limits and downstream effects of that system. CO2 output and the effects on global temperatures and ocean pH levels, pollution including endocrine disruption from plastics and pesticides drastically lowering fertility of us and other animals, rising costs of energy as we reach the end of the easily extractable stores of the planet's several hundred million-year reserves, the geopolitical situations that will arise as superpowers struggle with the need to scale back and make the changes necessary to prioritise the planet's health over their GDP and international power, the threat of nuclear war (more than many people realise), drastic species and habitat loss and what effects this will have on us in the future as their keystone roles in our ecosystems become realised (not to mention the inherent right these animals have to exist too)... To name a few. It's okay though, because these wealthy beneficiaries of today's system are here to tell us humanity just needs to grow, to progress more, because it's not like every one of the above problems has largely been created by that very mindset. We actually need to scale back and find a way to live sustainably - harnessing the best of the efficiencies today, but within cultures that do not prioritise consumerism, consumption and individual desire, minimising our energy needs and the levels of ecologically ruinous outputs from societies. And yes, the quality of life of many people may have to take a hit as we try to find a system that is more equitable - equitable not only for everyone alive today, but equitable for people in the future too (i.e., sustainable). It's funny and scary at the same time that the very thing that final economist advocates for - less market regulation and more economic growth today (in the US anyway - he only mentions his own country, because they're of course the only one with any relevance in the future) - is exactly what has caused most of the problems today.

[@seanwebb605]

Tell us that you didn't understand the content of the video without saying that you didn't understand the content of the video.

[@Jarczenko]

Next episode: debunking hopiumerism/copiumerism

[@mrpearson1230]

I wish one day these intellectuals are more or just as famous and respected as entertainers are. I know many schools use Crash Course but I hope some are using Big Think.

[@abody499]

these people are not intellectuals

[@kyronrc]

Yes, human kind will keep seeking advancement, but the very earth we stand on cannot anymore.

[@reubenj.cogburn8546]

Humans like stories with happy endings. It keeps hope alive Are big brains allowed are species to prosper, and our big brains will be the demise of it. What all these wonderful philosophical thinking people fail to grasp is technology, our technology, will exceed our Humanity, then it's game over. Late in his life, Albert Einstein tried voicing this idea, mostly to deaf ears. Because humans like stories with happy endings.

[@jeffkilgore6320]

Humans have been materialistic to survive. We’ve gone too far in some cases, and we’ll need to shift to equity and life experiences.

[@bcfortenberry]

Considering the world we’ve made, I’m not sure imparting that world to posterity is a laudable goal. Our economic system seems like an inescapable doom loop for anyone who isn’t already wealthy and our political systems can’t allocate things of value.

[@conorknapp6764]

Well put friend, optimism is fine for one’s own personal outlook in life but to apply that same sentiment to the world itself requires outright denial of reality

[@curtisbush8098]

I kept waiting to hear a more global/collective perspective (vs US-centric) that admitted the correlation between progress and access to cheap energy, the social challenges of shifting from a financialized economy to a material economy that respects finite resources, and a bias that presumes 'up and to the right' is the default trajectory. But... their paycheck and wellbeing is on not admitting those things, so it's not surprising.

[@abody499]

It would be impossible to express the level of disdain I have for these people without the comment being hidden. Even this will be lucky to get past the great filter.