Fighting Type Pokémon in RBY (And why they're Bad)

Today we take a lil break from fgs to talk about something else I thoroughly enjoy, early generation comp Pokémon! Here I cover a pretty poor type in the first generation of Pokémon, the Fighting type. I hope the new topic isn't too jarring, but it's something I really wanted to try (:
Twitter: / veryspicyjoe
Song Used: • Insaniquarium Deluxe M...
#RBY #Pokémon

[@hondozed9953]

I think it’s fitting that the only viable substitute user, Rhydon, has the substitute doll modeled after him

[@endymallorn]

Idk, Chansey was just a big bag of HP, and could take the 25% without blinking.

[@houraisheperd9721]

Back in gen 1 RBY, Sub didn’t block status and removes the Hyper Beam recharge turn if it breaks to it. Rhydon is immune to the all-important para and resists Hyper Beam, so that’s 95% of reason to not use it taken care of. The last 5% is sleep.

[@N12015]

@@houraisheperd9721 Don't forget Rhydon has over 404 HP aka its substitute were seismic toss proof.

[@GreatNegus]

It's probably cuz Rhydon was the 1st Pokemon design to be finalized.

[@woahdude5553]

@@endymallorn hyper beam would break chansey's sub which removes recharge, though

[@benjaminschmitt1562]

Machamp: has 4 arms Best move: uses the foot Gen 1 is really something, huh?

[@MishKoz]

Smash Ultimate 🤝 Pokemon RBY Having the boxer characters be among the worst in the game

[@galvsparks6295]

At least Hitmonchan isn’t *the worst* in the game

[@Zorua3]

>Min Min

[@lillith7257]

@@Zorua3 >boxing

[@2yoyoyo1Unplugged]

Difference is that in Smash there are some people that main the boxing character and manage to kick everyone’s ass. In Pokémon Gen 1 winning with a fighting type is statistically unfeasible.

[@paichni3474]

They also both have guides “Hit em baby!”

[@Neogears1312]

The funny thing is when you look back at rby, yes psychic types were top tier, but arguably the best type was normal when you look at the absolute best mons, tauros chancy and snorlax. This is literally one of fighting’s best strengths, being the only effective type against normal Pokémon and it’s still awful af in a meta where two rock types are also in the meta. Fighting types got handed relevance on a silver platter and they tripped immediately with it.

[@BigYellowSilly]

There's something so sad about being designed to counter the 3 best Pokemon and then just kind of not

[@vyor8837]

I mean mewtwo and Articuno are both really good in gen 1.

[@BigYellowSilly]

@@vyor8837 RBY Mewtwo is a contender for the best a Pokemon has ever been but Articuno is just pretty good. It's great in UU and a solid threat in OU, around the same level as Lapras and Victreebel

[@vyor8837]

@@BigYellowSilly and they both shut down fighting while arti gives a good run against the bulky physical guys.

[@nothankyou4859]

The problem is the lack of any good fighting moves. Submission sucks so much

[@LongfellowLP]

Fun fact, Hitmonlee's bulk is just about half of Slowbro's bulk both physically and specially. So like, Slowbro being hit by an electric move? That's what Hitmonlee feels from neutral hits.

[@CoralReaper707]

That is...sad.

[@Gold_Gamer_100]

That's just sad...

[@genericbee1902]

168/258=.65x Special 204/318=.64x Defense It's closer to 2/3 if you take their fully leveled stats instead of their base stats, so it's like STAB attacks against Slowbro are how Hitmonlee feels from non-STAB attacks

[@iluvchess14736]

"In generation two you had Snorlax and, well it's not really Snorlax and friends it's more like Snorlax and the few lucky enough to be spared from his fu**ing wrath"

[@dragonslair951167]

I'm glad the annoyance I suffered playing against Snorlax in Pokemon Stadium has been validated, at least.

[@MitchellD249]

Hitmonchan is the kind of Pokemon you'd have expected them to add in generation 4 to highlight the physical-special split, but for some reason they introduced it 3 gens earlier with nothing to do except get bullied by everything.

[@bluegum6438]

The Fighting Dojo is so sad, it'd be funny if Game Freak originally did plan to have them be the gym for Saffron but realised the Fighting types are such hot garbage the Dojo would rather give them away for free so they don't have to look at their stupid faces anymore

[@ENCHANTMEN_]

"hey let's give this physical-only attacker 3 signature attacks that are all special"

[@rtiq270]

@@ENCHANTMEN_ And then also give them to Abra a gen later.

[@insertobligatoryreferenceh489]

@@ENCHANTMEN_ Funnily enough, Magmar, Electabuzz, and Jynx also learned their respective elemental punches in Gen 1. However, they also got Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam respectively, meaning that there is literally zero reason to use the elemental punches in competitive.

[@acemerceramv8561]

If only his later special defense was it's special atk too in gen 1

[@lvl5Vaporeon]

It bothers me that Machamp can literally punch itself to death if submission hits a Chansey...

[@BigYellowSilly]

task failed successfully

[@tezcanaslan2877]

chansey has trash defense so you also kill chansey

[@gregorymirabella1423]

@@tezcanaslan2877 not if it uses counter or soft boiled. you underestimate gen 1 bulk.

[@tezcanaslan2877]

@@gregorymirabella1423 counter is a decreased priority move

[@vaiyt]

chansey was doing the roly poly punching bag fighting style a generation before wobbuffet

[@asterlux4899]

The sad thing about Karate Chop being Normal in Gen 1 (which I don't understand _why_ they'd do that, Bite is different since Dark didn't exist, but what part of "Karate Chop" doesn't scream "Fighting"?) is that if it had already been Fighting, it'd probably be a very good STAB due to how in Gen 1 increased crit chance means crits almost all the time-- and if your Speed is high enough, remove the "almost". So it'd be in the same spot as Razor Leaf of being an artificially strong move. Only two evolution lines learned it at the time, but both would have greatly appreciated. Primeape would likely have been at least somewhat viable with it due to having the Speed, and Machamp would probably still have preferred it over Submission even if there's the off-chance that it doesn't crit. idk if it'd make them that much better in the high tiers, but I could see how it'd make them way more solid in a lower-tier meta at minimum. They'd have a move effectively stronger than Submission (and HJK for that matter), with better accuracy and no recoil. If nothing else, they'd be much better in-game, I guess.

[@driftinggecko8329]

I love how in RBY there's 4 types that are so bad, a Pokemon's viability is instantly killed by being one of them.

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

to be fair most of the reason is movesets and the lack of special split, gen 2 Machamp was much bigger and that only reduced LITERALLY ALL OF HIS PROBLEMS

[@insertobligatoryreferenceh489]

Poison, fighting, bug, and…fire?

[@driftinggecko8329]

@@insertobligatoryreferenceh489 yeah

[@ovbrook3057]

@@insertobligatoryreferenceh489 Even poison isn't the immediate death sentence the other types are, just look at victreebel

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

@@ovbrook3057 There's also Gengar, and Tentacruel is good in UU

[@AkatsukiKaizoku]

Seeing Hi Jump Kick at 85 and just losing 1 HP if missing compared to the 130 and dying and losing a match of now is really funny.

[@Robbie_Haruna]

I'm half wondering if the 1 damage crash damage is just another bug since gen 1 was a mess of code. Like why even have crash damage at all at that point lmao.

[@y-ax2-bx-c5]

@@Robbie_Haruna considering the Stadium 1 description is "Stronger than a JUMP KICK. If it misses, the attacker sustains 1/8 damage it should have caused.", I'm betting it is--- but I'm more interested in HOW they made that mistake

[@usernametaken017]

Maybe insted of it deling 1/8 of the damage it deals 1/8 of a single hp point, and it rounds up to a full hp point

[@_Vengeance_]

@@y-ax2-bx-c5 Probably, since the attack missed, the game never calculates the damage it would've dealt, and the recoil formula is probably "(1/8 of damage dealt) + 1" to ensure that a missing High Jump Kick would still deal you recoil damage even if you would've dealt less than 8 damage. So, since damage dealt = 0 and 1/8th of that is obviously still 0, the recoil formula gives 0 + 1 = 1 self-damage.

[@usernametaken017]

@@_Vengeance_ yeah that makes more sense

[@ImportAustralia]

"Even if RBY PU rolls around, I would be stunned to see Hitmonchan having any sort of a niche." ...Well, hey, 7U happened? Small victories.

[@zememerr2329]

I like how Showdown shows an oddly specific accuracy for 100% accurate moves due to the 1/256 glitch being a thing

[@BigYellowSilly]

It's a cute detail I never think about til I notice it

[@gh0rochi363]

lol yeah showdown is awesome

[@ryjelsum]

it would be like that for all moves, because the underlying 1/256 miss bug affects all moves and is just most noticable on 100% accurate ones. plus, something like an 80% accurate move couldn't be expressed as a fraction of 256 (204.8/256 = .8) so that would have to be rounded up or down into a fraction that looks weird when expressed as a percent

[@cashnelson2306]

welcome to math

[@fandenovelas777]

it was fixed before u commented that lol

[@mikkoto2135]

The best fighting move is Jolteon's double kick because it hit blissey without fear of counter.

[@BigYellowSilly]

When you think about it that's really the most common normal Fighting type attack in OU that's so weird

[@gregorymirabella1423]

*chansey, but yeah, i find it funny how jolteon uses multihit moves to be the only mon to hit normal and psychic types for super effective damage.

[@soniablanche5672]

tfw Jolteon gets the best fighting move and the 2nd best bug move

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Ah, Jolteon, the best Bug type, and Fighting type, in gen 1, and also a fairly decent mono electric type.

[@Jotari]

So Jolteon has the best bug ove and the best fighting move? That's sort of weird.

[@Gigamex2]

Hitmonchan may not have been a meta defining Pokemon in the broken mess that was RBY, but he was a haymaker king in the broken mess that was the base set of the TCG!

[@starmangalaxy2001]

Actually Base-Fossil's best deck was actually Stall, but Haymaker doesn't make for a good 2nd.

[@globalistgamer6418]

I love that these useless FEs like Hitmonchan and Mr. Mime somehow ended up being some of the best in the TCG.

[@glitchedoom]

Funnily enough haymaker also included Scyther, who also got royally screwed by Gen 1.

[@Sheldon-senpai]

To be fair, I thought the main reason was how good the psychic-types were. I mean, yeah, most teams rely on normal types, but the amount of psychic-types really matters. Alakazam being one of the fastest mons, Exeggutor with Explosion and Sleep Powder, Slowbro having Amnesia, Starmie being arguably one of the best 3 mons on the game ... But nope, it was how terribly weak they were. That's sad.

[@ultimapower6950]

If it makes fighting types feel any better my team doesn’t use any psychic types

[@monterraythehomeless]

"Nothing hits different like choosing right in a children's game" Poetry

[@paleoscinkus542]

If only karate chop was a fighting type move. Machamp would theoretically be worth the effort of getting onto the field safely, as it would threaten a OHKO against Chansey, and punish Snorlax for using reflect or rest.

[@BigYellowSilly]

It's so weird that it isn't like why does everything have to be a normal move

[@witherkilleryeh]

​@@BigYellowSilly Mega punch Mega kick W h y

[@hv433]

​@@witherkilleryeh because G A M E F R E A K

[@alyssarichardson2544]

If only Cross Chop was a thing in this generation* it'd be stronger than Close Combat due to the crit mechanics, Fighting types would basically have a 200BP STAB move, coming off 130 attack...

[@Onigirli]

@@alyssarichardson2544 What's the asterisk for?

[@UliZombie04]

DUDE MACHAMP HAVING 4 GORO-ASS MUSCULAR ARMS AND RUNNING FUCKING LOW KICK INSTEAD IS THE FUNNIEST SHIT EVER

[@typhlosion7872]

I don't think Hitmonchan could even succeed if it was allowed in Little Cup. The roost is ruled by Rhyhorn, but it could probably 2HKO Hitmonchan with Earthquake while not getting 2HKOd back by Submission. Along with that, most of the extremely prominent normal types don't have prevos with the exception of Persian.

[@ovbrook3057]

Hitmonchan Submission vs. Rhyhorn: 185-218 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (185, 186, 187, 188, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218) Rhyhorn Earthquake vs. Hitmonchan: 113-133 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Possible damage amounts: (113, 113, 114, 114, 115, 115, 116, 116, 117, 117, 118, 118, 119, 119, 120, 121, 121, 122, 122, 123, 123, 124, 124, 125, 125, 126, 126, 127, 127, 128, 128, 129, 129, 130, 130, 131, 131, 132, 133)

[@typhlosion7872]

@@ovbrook3057 ok, I was wrong about that, but think of everything else. Exeggcute, Abra, Drowzee, etc. Ghastly is completely immune to it's stab and normal coverage, and just to list off the types that resist fighting. Flying, poison, bug, psychic, one dominant type, yes, but many worse types as well. And it's best attack is Submission, which only has 80 power with the accuracy of Stone Edge. Awful pokemon

[@globalistgamer6418]

"I don't think Hitmonchan could even succeed if it was allowed in Little Cup." This takes 'losing in a children's game' to new levels...

[@typhlosion7872]

@@globalistgamer6418 an adult getting smacked around by children.

[@Eminster]

@@typhlosion7872 until gen 4

[@PaPaSea]

I had no idea that generation one competitive battling was this deep

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

It's honestly very interesting

[@lillith7257]

Pokemon was more well thought out than people realize Competitive being one of the main things they were going for Coding was not though

[@cameronl1859]

@@lillith7257 Disagree. There's a whole lot about the design of competitive Gen 1 Pokemon that's flawed. I think it was kind of an afterthought that they happened to get lucky with.

[@lillith7257]

@@cameronl1859 disagree with what? That their jab at a whole new battling system with it's own intricacies wasnt more well throughout than people realize despite most people thinking it wasnt competitive until later? The fact that it was flawed doesnt change that lmao It wasnt an after thought That kind of thinking is exactly what I'm talking about Theres proof in the pudding that they thought about it a lot Their coding was the problem not their system

[@lillith7257]

@@cameronl1859 none of of my statement said it was perfect or genius just more well throughout than people think Theres nothing to really disagree with lol

[@goldglovegrappler1382]

Elemental Punches are Hitmonchan's thing but in Pokken they snubbed him from the roster and gave the three of them to MEWTWO for some reason. Give the dude a break.

[@waffleman8053]

That's weird

[@goldglovegrappler1382]

@@waffleman8053 Love Pokken but they had a slam dunk right in front of them in Hitmonchan as a not-Steve Fox like how Pikachu had a not-EWGF and they dropped the ball. I like the type variety on the roster but come on. If not Hitmonchan, give the elemental punches to Golurk.

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

The problem with using machamp to clean weakened paralyzed teams is if you really wanna use a niche Pokémon to clean weakened paralyzed teams Is wrap exist and it’s infinitely better. Even if you wanna meme in ou with something non ou due to their psychic weaknesses tentacruel is gonna be far more consistent. You actually have switch in opportunities because of its resistance to blizzard and obscenely high special and Tentacruel can even just dish out damage with that special stat too if needed.

[@insertobligatoryreferenceh489]

I’m pretty sure Tentacruel would be a great Pokémon in Gen 1 OU if not for that poison typing. Though maybe there are factors I’m not considering.

[@tylerd1297]

Might as well just go with Cloyster then. Dragonite is ok too but all the Blizzard users have to be removed. Swords Dance Kingler is pretty cool too.

[@tylerd1297]

@@insertobligatoryreferenceh489 Somewhat. Hypno and Kadabra dominate UU similar to Alakazam in OU, but they don't pose as much of a threat. the ground weakness is also bad as Tauros Earthquake hits really hard.

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

@@tylerd1297 tbh the earthquake weakness is probably more impactful as squidward tentacruel’s massive special make it able to stomach a psychic or two if needed. However it’s not so lucky on the physical end

[@spindash64]

Hell, LICKITUNG might almost be better, because it gets Swords Dance and STAB on Wrap without being weak to anything important

[@TheLightInDarkness43]

I remember getting pissed playing gen 2 as a kid because I put all punch moves on my hitmonchan and was so excited to use him and he wouldn't put a dent in anything. I was like, wtf you specialize in punching and your mach punch always does more than your super effective ones???

[@BigYellowSilly]

I enjoy the pre-physical/special split a lot more than most but the elemental punches being special moves will never feel right

[@maskofthedragon]

You would think Fighting would have high attack value moves from the beginning

[@BigYellowSilly]

A few types in Gen 1 REALLY got snubbed out of good moves, which stings considering the insane amount of normal moves

[@BigYellowSilly]

Was nice to try something new with this and overall I'm very happy with it! Sorry is my voice is a bit stuttery at points, came up a few times idk what's up with me. Still really enjoyed doing this so hopefully you do too! (Edit: Lil mistake in the Machamp segment, 54.75% is the chance your opponent CAN move, not CAN'T move)

[@user-cj4fu8qq9b]

S P E E D S P A T

[@athath2010]

If you're looking for feedback, your eyes aren't really pointed at/near the camera for most of the video, making it very obvious that you're reading from a script. Other than that, though, very solid video!

[@BigYellowSilly]

@@athath2010 Yeah I had a lot of trouble with that, but I'll try work on it! Thanks

[@samuelalphabet5360]

"Nothing really hits different than guessing right in a childrens game" I guess I shouldn't be surprised the dude into melee is also into comp pokemon xddd Haven't watched the vid yet but like ur other content and this kinda content has a similar appeal for me so def interested in what u got to say

[@samuelalphabet5360]

I always hear about the psychic types being the dominant force in gen 1 so hearing a bit about the normal types was interesting. my boy machamp puttin in (very niche) work is pretty hype. Overall pretty chill video always interesting to here bout a competitive scene i know almost nothing about lel

[@xavierblaster]

@@samuelalphabet5360 only the normal types could really check the psychic types since ghost didn't work and bug was trash

[@jordanguelbert7754]

They really should try yugioh

[@Bacchus325]

I love the idea of "expanding" game gold and game garbage to other games. Gen 1 Bug types should be on the hit list too.

[@syweb2]

What do you mean "game gold" and "game garbage"? Is that a channel-specific thing?

[@auraguardianred4771]

Yes. Big Yellow usually focuses on fighting games (Super Smash Bros., Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc.) but he just randomly decided to put out this video, which is funny because fighting types. Fighting game gold showcases really good, top teir fighting characters, which fighting game garbage showcases… garbage characters.

[@somekinnn]

@@auraguardianred4771 Fighting game gold isn't for top tier characters, it's for characters the dude thinks the design of is very good. That's why Potemkin in guilty gear strive, despite being high tier at best and probably around mid was in fighting game gold.

[@masonwhite3698]

I did a run of Red not too long ago and made a point of having a Hitmonchan on the team because I like the whole boxer shtick it has going on. The only notable use I got out of him was using Gen I's busted AI to cheese the fight against Lance (since they'll use Psychic-type moves against him... even when the only one of that type available is Agility. Over and over). Good times.

[@isenokami7810]

Reminds me of my first HeartGold playthrough, where I ran an Everstone Sentret for stupid reasons. Or the handful of Black 2 runs where I’ve tried to make Purrloin work. A fully evolved Pokémon presenting that kind of uselessness is depressing.

[@DarkAuraLord]

0:52 can't forget about Garchomp single handedly defining an entire meta to the point of needing a ban. Gen 4 comp was my favorite but that period of OU sucked. I still remember playing manual rain teams in gen 4 and 5, good times. Gen 4 also had one of my favorite sets for Ttar, the Tryaniboa set.

[@ghostfire1192]

Also can't forget the dominance of Excadrill in Gen 5

[@DarkAuraLord]

@@ghostfire1192 He was so stupid, still love him on sand storm teams even to this day

[@athath2010]

What's the Tryaniboa set?

[@DarkAuraLord]

@@athath2010 It was a well known subpunch set for Tyranitar that was used to wall break powerful defense cores from back in gen 4's OU meta. T-tar actually has a respectable enough special attack stat, movepool, and bulk to wall break, on top of it already being a threat with it's other sets. The idea was you would swap into something t-tar can easily switch into and threaten out, which in gen 4 is plenty of 'mons, especially if they have to guess your set, and then you set up a sub on their switch and proceed to threaten the hell out of tons of different pokemon from behind it. Clefable, Blissey, Heatran, Scizor, Jirachi, Magnezone, Bronzong, and Skarm all get hit decently from focus punch, you get ice beam to deal with a lot of common threats to t-tar like the ubiquitous gliscor and breloom as well as hit stuff that can resist focus punch like zapdos. Last slot was a bit more dependent on what your team had covered, but typically would use crunch for powerful stab and good coverage against the psychic types and gengar. Hell it even gets Flamethrower and Fireblast as options if you want to really fuel your hate boner for scizor and skarm.

[@plabcentral630]

Shaymin sky’s ou was the worst in my opinion

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Funnily enough in a Machamp timed run of Yellow the runner kept Low Kick for the same reason, sure its weak but since Karate Chop is Normal in Gen 1 it is Machamp's most reliable source of stab.

[@wadespencer3623]

I just looked this up and what the FUCK. Why was it normal type!?

[@thenerdbeast7375]

@@wadespencer3623 Same reason why Gust was normal type back then, RBY mechanics were stupid

[@wadespencer3623]

@@thenerdbeast7375 What an insane game series. Honestly if it wasn't totally revolutionary, I think the blatant flaws would have led the franchise to an early grave.

[@melvint-p9500]

​@@wadespencer3623 gen 1 classes all wind moves as normal, and wing/Bird moves as flying. Whirlwind and Razor Wind remain normal type to this day.

[@wadespencer3623]

@@melvint-p9500 And that's WEIRD. To be fair, flying is kinda... barely a type. It's more what a pokemon DOES than what it IS. Flying just means it spends a lot of time in the air, which is probably why the only pure flying type is a wind elemental.

[@ClexYoshi]

I'll be real with you... It took me getting into competitive Pokemon around Gen 4 times to awaken my mind to a lot of concepts that are core to playing fighting games. where as card games or other turn based games where it properly alternates decision making from player to player, Pokemon battles approximate the moment to moment assessment of meta knowledge and the mental stack of a fighting game across a dilated period. Before I played pokemon, I kinda played games like Melee and Samurai Showdown and UMK3 and whatever else as something where i was throwing out attacks that seemed to best serve the current situation, rather than trying to put any thought into what the opponent could do to me if they knew I was going to just do a dash attack at them or rolling around repeatedly or such. It was between this and a video series I watched from David Sirlin explaining the ideas of controlling space and the importance of frame data that I started TRULY understanding fighting games and getting into stuff like OG Blazblue and Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom.

[@GigaHands]

I've noticed that too, but the method I use to differentiate games like Pokemon and fighting games from others is by sorting them into "predictive games" vs. "reactive games". In a "reactive" game, one can look at the state of the game, and determine the best move using that. Chess, for example, while insanely complicated, is solvable, meaning that for any given game state there is one definitive best move. Card games like Magic also fall mostly under this category, since once you understand the game well, you can easily guess the opponent's deck after seeing only a few cards, so you know what to play around. Pokemon and fighting games, however, are "predictive" games. That means that even with omniscient knowledge of the game state, one cannot calculate that best move without knowing the opponent. Are they new-ish? Are they cautious? Fearless? Showy? All of these examples will yield different play patterns, and by extension, change what the best move is. This is just my take on the subject, and it honestly helped me understand why I love fighting games so much.

[@bageltoo]

Finally, a real fighting game.

[@LainWithSweetTea]

*Wait this isn't Capcom VS SNK 2*

[@Wlightning25]

It's always interesting to hear about the different metas of the different generations. I didn't know how powerful normal types and how bad fighting types were. I would enjoy seeing more pokemon videos like this.

[@MD-vs9ff]

Gen 4 Dragon and Steels

[@Lightrider-oy2qb]

I didn’t realize this was your channel when I clicked on it. Big yellow covering both my favorite things CRAZY

[@raynmanshorts9275]

Submission is 80 base power, 80% accurate, and has the downside of doing recoil damage. Psychic is 90 base power, 100% accurate, and has the _upside_ of sometimes lowering the opponent's Special, making them do less damage from Special moves while also taking more damage from your Special moves. Gen I balance isn't hilariously bad. It does not exist.

[@Bullet76_]

man getting a shiny porygon while rewatching big yellows rby videos is like a sign from god

[@kgy121]

I have literally never landed a hitmonlee hi-jump-kick. Small-child me had written off the move as bugged and useless, like focus energy.

[@metalhamer1000]

honestly I thought this would be about lower tier pokemon and then I realized the fighting types are exactly that

[@ortheore]

Technically Low Kick Machamp isn't a new idea, Enigami made the case for it on Pokemon Perfect years ago but it never went anywhere because Champ is ass and no-one uses it. I definitely think it's better than Submission Also I like Lee>Ape, mostly because Golden Gyarados sometimes used it whereas I don't know of anyone using Ape

[@devangoad]

>has four arms >does a low kick pretty nice

[@bigredradish]

you mentioned Pinsir and, though he's my favorite bug type, I've got no idea what his deal is prior to like generation 4. would love to hear more about him!

[@BigYellowSilly]

I think that'd be a neat idea, maybe in an underrated mons video or something. Pinsir is some of the most fun I've had with RBY, and you wouldn't think it cause they literally only have normal and fighting attacks

[@StarkMaximum]

@@BigYellowSilly Pokemon Company: Hitmonlee is a Fighting type! That means it gets only Fighting type attacks because that is its specialty, and Normal type moves that any Pokemon can use! Also Pokemon Company literally in the same game: why would we make bug type moves for the bug type pokemon Pinsir can just have Fighting type moves

[@grunkleg.3110]

The deal is that every Pokemon before Gen 4 had awful level-up movepools, the fact that certain types had entirely physical or special attacks, and a good amount of Pokemon pretty much had to rely on Hidden Power to get an okay STAB move

[@snitchbug]

false swipe gaming does a series covering the competitive viability of pokemon throughout the years, it’s interesting and he’s got a vid on pinsir

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@StarkMaximum Pinsir has Fighting-type moves because it's a stag beetle, and those are known for wrestling each other.

[@Sheriel_Phoenix]

I should've absolutely seen it coming at the end but I still got shocked when Big Yellow mentioned my favorite pokemon while they were also covering the entire screen

[@lorddelibird]

I will die on the hill that when special is split and hitmonlee was given 110 special defense, hitmonchan should’ve been given 110 special attack to utilize the elemental punches

[@MusicoftheDamned]

14:04 and onward makes it both sad and hilarious that Hitmonchan never _really_ improves here even after the Special split, the unchaining of Type to either Atk or SpA, the adding of abilities, *and* the addition of several much better Fighting type attacking moves, including both Close Combat and Mach Punch. None of the changes made to it have ever ended up making it worth much of a damn, especially with all of the power creep, though ironically it seems at its "best" in Gen V, *the* gen of power creep. Hell, even giving it a signature ability ended up just dooming *the ability* given Iron Fist is *still* one of the worst abilities in the game that actually does anything in battle. To add insult to injury, Hitmochan is probably even the worst mon at using Iron Fist too at this point outside of Ledian's even more useless self with its 35 Attack--ugh Gods. It's like Sabrina dommed the previous Fighting gym in Saffron City so hard that the subsequent Fighting Dojo and its two signature mons were cursed. Hitmonlee was at least smart to split its curse with new kid Hitmontop so that they could both be at least somewhat usable, but Hitmonchan got stuck at home babysitting Tyrogue while embellishing its meager accomplishments even though it's barely above the likes of Kricketune, Luvdisc, and Sunflora. Such wasted potential.

[@grunkleg.3110]

Where are you getting the notion that Iron Fist is a bad ability? Iron Fist is actually really good on something like Conkeldurr or Melmetal, who are more than capable of taking advantage of it. I will agree with the fact that a 20% increase in damage is too low; a 30% increase would be pretty balanced, considering a lot of punch attacks are actually really good

[@MusicoftheDamned]

@@grunkleg.3110 It's exactly *because* it's 20% that I'm calling it one of the worst abilities, not because punching abilities are bad--they're generally not. Mind you, Iron Fist is not completely unusable, and it's definitely the lesser evil on at least Hitmonchan given that would otherwise only be stuck with Keen Eye or the just recently buffed Inner Focus, but that's really not saying much. It's not saying much to say that it's useful on Conkeldurr when that generally wants to use the much better Guts 90+% of the time or that it's useful on Melmetal when Melmetal has borderline busted physical stats and was clearly based around what is its only ability. Outside of Melmetal who is stuck with it, Hitmonchan, and maybe the equally crappy Crabominable, everything that gets Iron Fist basically wants to be using one of its other abilities most of the time. That is speaks for itself even before its utterly underwhelming track record before Melmetal emerged from _Go!_ to terrorize everyone.

[@absentcoder4552]

So, Machamp could do Paraflinch before Togekiss?

[@ChiliLeo]

Yk, for ur first pokemon video it's really solid please keep up this Pokemon content for Competitive in the games

[@rasmusdegn9690]

Real missed opportunity not call this video "Fighting Type Garbage"

[@worriedscotch]

Absolutely loved this. Gen I has always been such a fascinating gen in terms of the competitive scene and the strange little quirks of its mechanics and design decisions, so always love to hear more about it. Would love to hear you talk more about Gen I-III since I just like listening to you talk about things that you enjoy. Also, loved the little jokey bits you had mixed in through editing, and in general the visual info provided was greatly appreciated.

[@spooksnull4810]

This was a fantastic video :) Ironically, I subbed to you for your FGC content, but I understand way more about pokemon than I do fighting games. This was a great deep dive. Also the editing is fantastic!

[@meathir4921]

The editing was really clean on this one. I like the new format. I always like these types of videos; anyone with a decent understanding of basic multiplayer meta in any videogame can understand this stuff.

[@adamh2900]

You can sweep through Lorelei with a Hitmonlee in Red and Blue using Meditate 6 times on the Dewgong then simply Hi Jump Kicking the rest of the team

[@BigYellowSilly]

Probably should've mentioned Meditate here tbh, it's not great but it's something they can do

[@ShiningJudgment666]

Gotta love Gen 1 good AI and infinite AI PP.

[@tezcanaslan2877]

RBY as a whole was a mess that was held together with magic

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

Honestly, its less that the handful of Fighting types are bad (Machamp and Primeape are actually pretty decent) it's that Fighting moves FUCKING SUCK. The best one is Hi Jump Kick which is only learned by Hitmonlee, who matches up terribly in OU, after that its goddamn submission. Like, Low Kick can Flinch, which is cute, but it, and a ton of other "good" Fighting moves all have 90 or lower accuracy, for some reason. And then Karate Chop is Normal. Just, why? Primeape would have loved having a High Crit Fighting move. I doubt it woulda been enough, but it would have been something to discuss.

[@MrMisfortune]

I was waiting for body slam to get the 0.39 miss chance to further drive in the giveth and taketh of RBY.

[@ricky4197]

BRUH The Insaniquarium music! That ones my favorite track in that game, like that shits my childhood

[@BigYellowSilly]

Factsssss I've been getting back into it lately, amazing game

[@Encephalophage]

Freakin' KNEW it sounded familiar! The realization hit me around 11 minutes in, haha

[@RandomDane2023]

The Insaniquarium music alone earns this video a big fat like. Discovered your content today and I really dig it, keep it up!

[@glitchedoom]

Been playing a lot of Gen 1 Random battles, and everytime I get a Poliwrarh on my team I think to myself "It's ya boy... Poliwrath".

[@cebolimhagameplays6740]

funnily enough, poliwrath is pretty good in random battles since it has hypnosis + amnesia and is not low level like slowbro

[@PlaguevonKarma]

This was fantastic and I'm really glad people are starting to cover Gen 1 with more nuance on KZbin. Still funny to see a channel that covers both my favourite genres hahaha

[@keebs5780]

I LOVE gen 1 dude this is my generation. I love how fucking stupid busted the games themselves are and the competitive side is fascinating just from how wonky it is. And god knows it’s better than gen 2’s horrible stall meta lmao side note I love that like a good chunk of OU metas can be summarized as “Tyranitar and friends” or at the very least “(meta mon) and tyranitar”

[@OvermasterP]

I really like the injection of variety to the channel. My full support!

[@FenrisRM]

imagine Machamp had Cross Chop in Gen1, with all them crits and such. would you think it would be played, considerimg the strong psychics in Gen1?

[@shadowtitanx3962]

Probably. But even then, Machamp’s Special and Speed stats kill it. Meaning that it needs Para support to outrun stuff.

[@hiei49]

It would be pretty good with cross chop imo. Im pretty sure it can grab a ko on rhydon (maybe it needs a small chip) and it would deal more than half to zam on the switch. So my guess is that it would be a good zapdos partner since machamp can switch into rock type moved from rhydon and threaten it out

[@spindash64]

With what amounts to recoilless Submission with double the base power? Pretty sure it’s gonna be the new BL knight

[@ilikemynameNOTHING]

Bruh insaniquarium music and gen 1 comp? Love it dude

[@BigSleepy985]

I legit just got into Pokémon and u upload this. The stars align

[@adhamwashere5320]

Another way Fighting types were done dirty was that Karate Chop was a normal type attack and had a high critical hit chance. If karate chop was fighting type then Machamp had 2 hit ko's against Tauros, Snorlax and Rhydon, and a 92.3% to ohko chansey.

[@Jay-ho7sf]

I'll be honest I've only had a passing interest in competitive Pokemon but this vid is really informative and it makes me want to know more about older gen competitive pokemon stuff so I hope you make more. Great vid as always!

[@babymanjones]

I love your dry humor dude. This channel is massively underrated.

[@MagicalMEAT]

Feels good to not be the only one who hits the Venn diagram of competitive Pokemon and fighting games, really cool vid! Would like to see more pokemon content occasionally! edit: fuck yeah heracross

[@cookie-qb6mu]

new vid is edited super well, i honestly really like this style

[@Reginald_Ritmo]

Imagine an alternate timeline where brick break exists in RBY and is widely available.

[@SuperScratchkat]

LOVE your videos, this format works great so far, if you actually stuttered i didnt notice it, keep it up king 👍

[@lordlouie3550]

Imagine how things could’ve been if Close Combat or Poison Jab were in Gen 1...

[@E4439Qv5]

Or even Ghost moves hitting Psychic for Super-Effective.

[@KopperNeoman]

And an actual Ghost move that isn't Lick.

[@spindash64]

We don’t need to imagine: just look at GSC: Sludge Bomb was even BETTER than modern Poison Jab

[@redkingdom15]

I accidentally stumbled on your videos and I love this! Great content!

[@eevee3871]

Would love to see more of these types of videos!

[@BigYellowSilly]

Thanks! I defo have some ideas for sure

[@YashichiDSF]

good video, I think I could enjoy listening to you talk on why anything sucks

[@RosiYYAP]

I never got into competitive singles, but it's ver cool to see a look at some niche meta for a niche generation Also, nice nail polish, looks clean af

[@eViLPaCcc]

And then gen 5 came along, and Game Freak had to accomodate resistance to fighting into Fairy type because Terrakion and company were bending everyone over

[@LunarShimmer]

Dude... I love the Insaniquarium tank 2 music. Jumped out of my seat when I recognized it lmao. Masterful taste

[@anon3631]

Didn't expect Pokémon content from you, good stuff.

[@sagacious03]

Great analysis! Thanks for uploading!

[@mariojordan9543]

That first line sold me the video

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

Really wonder what Gamefreak was thinking when they created Gen 1's moves. Fire, Ice, Electric, Water and Psychic all get 2 or 3 decently powered moves with helpful secondary effects if they land. Fighting, Bug and Ghost get 1 shit move that you can use if you really want to, and the rest are literally unusable. The more sensible approach would've been to pick a move template and build from there, like giving every type a counterpart to ember, flamethrower and fire blast, and adding extra moves as relevant (like absorb), but each type should've access to a unusable accurate offensive option.

[@BigYellowSilly]

I love Gen 1 but honestly that is maybe my least favorite aspect about it, a lot of mons straight up don't have a STAB option

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

@@BigYellowSilly Yeah move distribution is another issue (why don't Pinsir and Scyther get bug moves?) But the issue is more fundamentally that there simply aren't enough moves. If the issue was cartridge space, why does normal have like, 3 counterparts to tackle? Why isn't Karate Chop a fighting type move? Why are submission and rock slide (best moves of their respective types) so bad when Earthquake AND dig exist for ground which is a much more powerful type? Why can't ghosts get a good move?

[@bearholdinshark8441]

This was a nice change of pace, could we expect more vids outside of fighting games?

[@BigYellowSilly]

For sure, I'd defo like to do more vids like this

[@sem3ndem0n_73]

I didn't know you we're also into competitive Pokémon. I enjoyed this video, I hope you make more! Also I like your nails!

[@DarkMario277]

I had no idea you were into competitive gen 1, definitely one of my most favorite gens for comp. I'd love to see you cover more aspects of it~

[@terraSpark902]

Primeape has more going for it in Nintendo Cup 1997. The team preview and increased viability of many lesser used pokemon by today's standards meant that using a pokemon like Primape wasn't such a big risk. Furthermore the 50-55 level rule and Articuno and fire types etc being good in the format meant that Primape could actually be quite threatening with Rock slide, and Submission was one if the few ways to 2HKO Lapras. Who was another staple of the format.

[@toasterrobot]

I don't know how big the crossover between FGC and competitive pokemon but I'm glad to be in that niche ✌ Great vid mate

[@kaiser776_]

Something that I have been thinking about is what if karate chop was a fighting type move in Gen 1 because it has a high crit ratio and with my chance speed I'm pretty sure it would lead to a pretty solid chance to critical with every hit and because he'd be getting stab and double damage from it being a fighting cut move on normal types would that make him slightly more viable?

[@exi_dudi2037]

Machamp Karate Chop vs. Snorlax on a critical hit: 331-390 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This is stab karate chop. This would be so cool Machamp Karate Chop vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 694-816 (98.7 - 116%) -- 92.3% chance to OHKO

[@thatkleinguy]

I love how Tyranitar has been an integral part of the meta in every game it's in lol

[@BigYellowSilly]

Tyranitar is just so goddamn cool I can't believe it's UU in Gen 8 that feels so gross

[@isokey9035]

@@BigYellowSilly We need pursuit back !

[@BigYellowSilly]

@@isokey9035 FACTS most of the move cuts in Gen 8 were whatever but removing Pursuit was a clown move

[@imsoready1114]

Tyranitar is OU in Sw/Sh, though not nearly as impactful as it once was since like you guys have already mentioned it lost Pursuit for some reason and Hippowdon got massive buffs. Still, it’s way too good to not be OU. Aegislash on the other hand… that’s a shocker for sure

[@BigYellowSilly]

@@imsoready1114 Oh my b I think I was thinking of Skarm, still wild how it fell off tho

[@magickitty9693]

Gen 6 OU is my main play category, and I can tell you there's something almost as bad as RBY fighting; Dragon types in gen 6 get fucked up by everything ever. The three best sweepers and three best tanks have ice or fairy moves, or both. Fairy types are so polarizing cause this was their first gen and they weren't fully balanced, and there's just... *SO MANY* of them. And dragons just get beat down by almost every single team in existence because they're just *so bad.* They're decent against some common tanks (rotom wash comes to mind) but even then they're not *good*. There's only two non-legendary OU dragon types; Dragonite and Garchomp, neither of which see much play except as setup pokemon or rough skin sweepers that don't really rely on dragon typing at all, and more on the aspects of those particular pokemon. This is to say; I ran into someone on ladder who had five dragons and a Tyranitar on their team and beat them all with my single Clefable, ending at full health.

[@skeetermania3202]

Surely you’re exaggerating?

[@magickitty9693]

@@skeetermania3202 Unfortunately no

[@skeetermania3202]

@@magickitty9693 At least Dragon in Gen 6 has good moves. Can’t really say the same for Fighting types in Gen 1. Also better neutral coverage and movepools.

[@magickitty9693]

@@skeetermania3202 That's fair, as I said almost as bad, but either way you've got maybe a couple good matchups with a dragon type, as I said usually against elemental main tanks like rotom wash

[@Lankpants]

@@skeetermania3202 They're not just exaggerating, they're objectively wrong. Gen 6 OU contains 3 non-legendary dragons to begin with. Megazard X is one of the most defining mons in the tier. It also contains three legendary dragons, both Lati's and Kyurem Black. You can't just ignore these three, they are part of the meta. There's also some niche lower tier dragons that remain completely usable in OU. There's actually more dragons in gen 6 OU than there are fairies. Dragon is still an amazingly good type in Gen 6, probably a top three typing. And yeah, no shit a team of 5 dragons and a dark type is going to lose to a fairy. That's common sense. Like, gen 6 ending 4 drag 2 mag (which was the actual viable version of the team they were up against) teams is actually a good thing. Dragon gets to be just a very good type rather than the overwhelming best type.

[@larhyperhair]

I love your nails! I also love when people talk about gen 1

[@nanceskiinanceskii4674]

This video was really cool! Kind of ironic how a bottom 3 type in gen 1 became so incredible after the additions of stuff like close combat and better fighting types that even after fairy got added fighting types still remain extremely dominant today

[@tarvold2492]

Yep. It's especially ironic when you consider the themes of the gyms in Saffron, about the Fighting types being left in the dust.

[@GlowingOrangeOoze]

Shocked to discover the Gen 1 upload in my sub box wasn't a JRose vid.

[@jolenecoda]

1. You made compdtitive pokemon interesting to me. Good job. 2. Happy to see another dude rocking those nails!

[@Onevsamillion]

Is that Insaniquarium deluxe I hear in the background? A man of culture I see. Great video :)

[@NRF3703]

The Pokémon company really wanted to let the "brains over brawn" thing sink in, huh?...

[@ANGLOOS]

We got some real nice edits this episode and finally an episode on pokemon, it was worth the wait 100%

[@DarkGekkouga]

If I remember correctly both Steel and Dark Type came into existence for 2 reasons. Everyone knows how it nerfs Psychic Type, and on the point of Normals, Steel also resists that. But also there existence buffs Fighting Types. So I suppose the next new typewill be strong against Fairy and Weak to Ice

[@BigYellowSilly]

Personally I'd just like to see them buff Ice so it's Immune to Fairy, bout time Ice got some love

[@unclepaul4816]

Nice Insaniquarium Deluxe music! I love that game.

[@calemr]

I loved Hitmonchan when I was a dumb kid. "Oh man, it gets fire ice AND lightning moves? It can hit anything's weakness! Bad Special? I don't understand that. TMs can teach wider spreads to other 'mons? But they can be only used once! I should save them for...ever... For some reason..."