Has Internal Cable Routing Gone Too Far?

[@bikeradar]

Do you agree that fully internal cable routing for every bike is a step too far? Or is every watt precious to you? Let us know in the comments below!

[@jeri534]

No, for a lot of people purchasing a bike, the aesthetics are important and having a clean, cable free looking bike is more important than the watts gained

[@buzzman4860]

Yes

[@azk_182]

Yes, I buy an aero bike with all internal cable routing for aesthetic. For the cable management, that's my mechanic's problem not mine

[@jasondunlap9823]

Yes.

[@jozefbaselogik4077]

100% agree..since I service most things on my bike

[@MC57315]

Look at that, a video that I completely agree with. Anyone who works on bikes will agree with you Simon.

[@robertryan1663]

To me the main reason for external cables that it allows the rider to choose any stem or handlebar available on the market. A really dialed in fit is way more important then any gains offered by Aero handlebars or internal cables. Add to that the ease of maintenance on external cables and it becomes self evident this trend is a step backwards. I also think in balance Rim brakes are a better choice a road bike. Guess I'm old school. I prefer my ten-year-old road bike to anything that could buy now.

[@redinho1994]

This. A proper bikefit with optimal stem length+rise and handlebar witdth+reach+drop can be more biomechanical efficient as wel as aerodynamic than those integrated stock solutions

[@chrisbowman2030]

Amen to that!

[@svenweihusen57]

I agree with internal cable routing but disagree with rim brakes. Apart from racing, brakes are the ultimate safety feature and they need to work in emergency situations. If you want to slow down before a curve the quality of your brakes doesn't really matter because you have the option to brake just a little earlier. In an emergency situation you need the absolute best brake performance and there disc brakes outshine rim brakes. Hopefully you will never need the extra braking power but if you need it saving some Watts or grams will not be worth the inferior performance.

[@Catcrumbs]

Coming from MTB, my mind was blown by how terrible the brakes roadies would put up with are. Fair enough, they do the job in the dry, but once it's wet they're hopeless and they make an awful mess.

[@Imthekingofdogshite]

@@svenweihusen57 it’s not just about braking performance in an emergency situation. It’s also about how the rider handles it. Disc brakes when pulled hard in an emergency will bite quicker and sharper especially in the wet which will in turn lock up causing skidding. Handling this is a skill in itself that most people will fail miserably at causing them to crash. It may actually serve most people better with rim brakes. Plus if they had aluminium rims with decent pads the performance gains is negligible.

[@tylerreid1789]

I do all the maintenance on my bikes. Fully-internal routing would drive me nuts, I'm fine with a few cables around the handle bars.

[@Macm73]

Yes , decided to stick with my old bike due to the ease of maintenance. Getting parts is another thing 😥

[@yengsabio5315]

Same with my hardtail MTB. #KeepBiking

[@mypriusisfaster]

Yup, searched online for months in an effort to find a new bike, but couldn't find anything worth spending money on. Sticking with my 2015 Giant Defy, all external cables, rim brakes, fully compatible with Shimano groupsets.

[@arifazhari7598]

Next : 1. Standardized BB 2. Universal Derailleur hanger

[@cjmpaja]

Sram is making a universal derailleur hanger...

[@itsdeebs5156]

@@cjmpaja just like how Cannondale was making a universal bottom bracket. Bb30nor was it pf30 oh and asemetric variants of both. SRAM can make a universal hanger...but if no manufacturers accept it SRAM will be be forever updating their hanger to be "universal"

[@cubeblah]

@@itsdeebs5156 to be fair I believe there’s a good amount of brands or specific bike models utilizing the new derailleur hanger.

[@cubeblah]

I think T47 might be the universal road bb we’ve been looking for where as 68mm bsa is looking like it’s the new mtb standard.

[@AG17_1]

And, as a mechanic having to stock multiple options, universal headset bearings please

[@captainvikingnumber1]

Another good honest vid, cheers! Yep, it has. Put a complex to maintain system on the lower price bikes kind of goes against why you'd buy a lower end price. More maintenance cost at the local bike shop, more down time when it needs sorted. I'll stick with my easily understandable and easily maintained Fully External Cable system!

[@3rdcatchopper408]

Rim brakes mechanical dura ace on my tcr, cables hanging everywhere complete perfection 👌🏻. Keep those 3 watts under extreme circumstances an I’ll keep my 6.2 kg tcr

[@pigeonpoo1823]

That genuinely sounds like my dream bike.

[@homerovl21]

Same here with my Sworks Tarmac SL6 with dura ace

[@jesseladd6864]

Had a sram red 22 TCR sl isp with aero 46s and k force light cranks. 15 pounds was a dream

[@Guoenyi]

did you install pedals m8

[@paolocastellano2771]

I agree 100%. I got a Chinese bike that had internally routed cables. For they initial assembly, I did the internal cables and everything was good... Once I had to swap out the housings or cables, I couldn't bear the thought to spend HOURS AND HOURS to do all that b.s. again...

[@keirfarnum6811]

If it weakens the head tube/stem interface, it’s a no go. Having a few cables showing isn’t going to kill you.

[@yonglingng5640]

It'd kill the aesthetic-conscious lol. I'm totally OK with conventional internal routing.

[@davidcarroll4150]

Giant is a very conservative company …. For them to decide that the new 2021 TCR (a big deal for them) was not going to have internal routing was a shock to many …. But if you LIVE with a bike you really don’t want the whole internal hassle ….. Home mechanics nightmare.

[@83Nemix]

It's possible that there are performance to gain from fully internal routing of the cables. I would say that I prefer them just because it looks so damn good. Choices in life are made not only with logic but also with emotions.

[@anthonyduncalf-uk]

I repair my bikes myself and don't want the hassle of dealing with fully integrated cables. I agree with everything you said and also the all in one handlebars that have the stem built in (whatever they are called ) are ridiculous as you can't tweak your bike fit. This is also a problem if you want to sell your bike as you would have to sell it to someone with the exact same body dimensions as you. This is just creating more waste as people can't resell their old bikes easily. The bike industry is getting worse with their proprietary parts when they should be doing the opposite . So it's a no from me.

[@johns3106]

As a racer who’s built like a rugby player rather than a waif-like climber, and who has broken LOTS of frames and cockpit components,the thought of ANY extra holes in my frame and especially handlebars (!!!) makes me cringe. Not to mention the extra hassle of servicing internal cables and the ridiculous costs these add to a new frame, just so some weekend punter can shave 5” off his best time around the block…all this makes internal routing a big NO to me!

[@rbstretch100]

Internal routing is definitely a bad idea. Not just the added complication and maintenance hassle, but also the difficulty in getting fit right. Fit has to be the most important criteria for everyone.

[@jcsrst]

You make an excellent point! I wouldn't suggest internal routing for a beginner. Even the more advanced cyclist must be damn sure their fit is dialed.

[@DominikLoeffler1]

And fit often changes, with age / injury / style of riding / etc.

[@davejones2500]

This has hit the nail on the head for me. I need to replace the headset bearings on my Lapierre eSensium but the cabling is internally routed through the top of the headset. I understand that to remove the top bearings the brake and gear cables need to be removed and the front brake bled after reassembly. Way beyond my capabilities so what is often described as a straightforward job now entails a visit to my LBS.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Aero schmero! It's all FASHION! Running all the hoses/wires/cables through the headset is dumb, dumb, dumb! Only thing worse is continuing the "F1-ization" through the f__king handlebars, making changing bar width, stem length a royal PITA!

[@shaunhoulahan4080]

It’s a stupid idea. The performance gains are so small that they’re barely there at all and less than you’d get from shaving your legs. Maintenance is much more complex. The risk of undetected damage to hydraulic lines, shifting cables or wires and even headset forks makes it dangerous as well.

[@JustinKlazinga]

Love fully internal cables, but that said I do use hydraulic brakes and though I still have cable shifting, I have not found that the bends have hampered gear changes at all. I built my bike myself and find maintenance relaxing though. I love the feeling of getting everything completely neat and totally cable-managed. I don't care about any supposed performance gains, but I do just love the look, the ease of washing the bike, and the convenience when mounting on a car or carrying up stairs to my office.

[@RJ-sx6ti]

i know some guys running on external cabling but still strong and win races compared to riders with bikes with internal routings

[@tomnanD3]

I totally agree. Integrated cockpits and internal CR are bad ideas for the average rider.

[@davyfong]

Great vid, nice to see BR giving some good critical feedback to the industry.

[@bikeradar]

Thanks for your comment!

[@tenpirpa4503]

Oh yeah, in between all those shill videos it’s so brave and stunning to vaguely criticise industry trends

[@fatihaydn2319]

Performance is not everything. The aesthetic of the bike really improves with internal cable routing. Besides, cable noise is also eliminated with this technology. I hate cables hit each other on a rough road and create noise.

[@sitoudien9816]

It's awesome until you get the maintenance bill. What was once a 10 min job becomes hours.

[@stanislavkindiakov6334]

Totally agree, fully internal routing harms mechanical shifting and adds a lot of head ace on service. Therefore I ordered Giant TCR which I can service myself

[@awillwithinawheel]

Internal cable routing on entry level bikes is a bad idea unless entry level cyclists are prepared to pay extra fees for service. I'm speaking from the perspective of a mechanic. Internal routing is a huge waste of time in the shop and therefore a liability for your LBS. The person in charge of intake needs to set the right rate and have a serious talk with the owner of the bike who wanted the fancy, tidy cables. If you want tidy, you're gonna have to pay. Otherwise, you are hurting your mechanic and the shop. And as for home mechanics on this job, it is unlikely that most people can figure it out, considering that it involves the headset, handlebars, downtubes and often the BB as well. I've had bikes come in with internal routing through the BB that was done incorrectly. The housing had whittled/ground the crank axle away until it snapped. Always get a pro to do your internal routing. There is so much that can go wrong.

[@yonglingng5640]

Same here. Some bikes with full internal routing are designed OK, but definitely not all of them, including the carbon Domane. Those who say they love full internal routing, chances are, they've never worked on a bike before. My take as of now: External routing: Piece of cake Conventional internal routing (ie. doesn't start from the top of the head tube): I'm OK with it Full internal routing: Depends on the bike, some are OK, others are downright 👎. Those with routing inside the stem automatically get a thumbs down.

[@Tinchohs]

I am with you. That was not always the case. I really don’t care about the watts. I love the esthetics of it most. But as someone who likes to travel with the bike, and in doing so I have to disassemble the cockpit to do so, added to the many recalls happening due to internal routing of cables, I have let this phantasy go. I have thus, embraced simplicity over the beauty of clean lines… :)

[@peteo3436]

I completely agree. As someone on the edge of fit for traditional sizes, the lack of adjustment that comes with integrated cockpits kills the idea for me

[@LOZUPONEJ]

I’m happy with my 11 speed ultegra mechanical rim brake bike.

[@silver_c1oud]

Bottomline.. I still Love the clean look of Fully integrated 😁

[@DaveCM]

Seemingly, everyone wants internal routing. I occasionally go on bike forums and often see where someone has bought an entry level to mid-level bike with mechanical shifting which didn't come from the factory without fully internal routing. Lots of people go to the trouble to change it over to fully internal. I would think that it would sacrifice shifting quality. They want the cleaner look and I guess too they want it to look higher end than it really is. I really think that manufacturers are actually responding to demands on this one.

[@yengsabio5315]

It has gone too far, it's neat no more! Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking

[@johsuapalma9508]

All I can say is that idc I love cycling EVERYTIME I ride my bike I'm always smiling even though I'm going through rough times I love cycling❤️🚴

[@timdixo]

Well done BR. Integration makes for a bike fitting disaster. We used to be able to throw on a cheap stem from CRC or Wiggle to fine tune position…no longer with these setups.

[@Sandzsteedt]

The negative aero effect of a couple of cable housings is next to nothing when compared to the human mass on the bike. Riders clothing and helmet alone are a bigger impact on the overall system of rider+bike.

[@jamesgoss-cycling3433]

Agreed. It's one of the reasons I decided to build a giant TCR. Some internal routing to keep it tidy but still easy to build and maintain. Good on Giant for making the decision on that design.

[@S.Prestage]

Well they'll definitely change that in the future

[@andrewshaw1431]

Internal in the frame as they get to the top and downtube if you must, but not at the headtube and bars and stem please! Too much hassle.....

[@cup_and_cone]

Bike shops can now charge for four hours of labor on new cable installations instead of half an hour just 10 years ago...

[@Morpheus0000]

Snapped my handlebars on my Ribble SLE, and could only replace with the bespoke Level 5 integrated bars which were out of stock. Previously I'd have just swapped out for any bar sitting around the shed¡!

[@yonglingng5640]

This is why 1) I hate bikes with proprietary cockpits. 2) I hate one-piece cockpits. 3) My cockpit is strictly aluminium.

[@lioneleaton8660]

Clearly speaking about that mess for bikeservice/newbike installation. Completely my opinion! Thx man.

[@moto_rad]

I agree with you, if you arent racing then serviceability should take first priority

[@yonglingng5640]

But in reality, most only care about looks. Most don't care about maintenance convenience because they never have to deal with it. As long as the shift and brake lines are routed under the stem instead of inside it, I'm OK and I've worked with full internal routing before.

[@mattwilliamson1667]

Internal cable routing has indeed gone way too far. I do not own internal cable routed bikes. A bike that needs to be reliable, easy to service such as a commuter bike or a touring bike etc should definitely not be complicated by unnecessary hidden cables. Modern Internal cabling is the application of over engineering inflicted on the bicycle, a thing of relative simplicity.

[@andyjonathan2486]

I think this episode really missed the mark on a largest downside internal routining: stress concentrations from HOLES in components undergoing bending stress, as well as wear/material extrusion from housing/component contact.

[@bethsaytomvarughese8839]

Do you know of any failures of this sort?

[@povertyspec9651]

@@bethsaytomvarughese8839 I have no doubt it has happened.

[@Cielzerozx004]

For me it's just personal. I just want my bike to look as clean and simple as possible. I don't mind the harsh maintenance since I do it on my own and only do it once a month. I do enjoy fiddling with my bike, a lot.

[@evictorr]

This video only mentions 1 stated advantage of fully internal cable routing, i.e. aerodynamics. There's another advantage: it makes the bikes easier to clean, because the cables, and any entry/exit points for cables not fully internal, pick up less dirt and mud from the ground. I think it's great being able to wipe clean the frame without having to slip the cloths under and around cables.

[@habana6595]

I built my aero Winspace T1500D bike fully external, only because it's wayyyy more simple to fit it in a bike case for travel !

[@waynehiggins899]

Totally agree with you on this. This is why ive just bought a 2021 Giant TCR advanced pro 1 rim brake. Great bike and serviceable myself

[@cirotalisman12]

I agree with what you are saying .if you are racing on a pretty good amateur level or you are doing ITTs, that small savings helps. If you are not ,and you are just out there having fun. WHY?. Not to mention it used to take me about 5 mins to replace someone’s cable for 15-20$, now it takes me over an hour for a lot more money, and having to explain to the owner why I’m charging them so much more. Total pain in the ass.

[@claydohlite29]

Giant TCR, didn't followed the trend. Said it's not worth it. But if you like looks and cleanliness. Go for it.

[@yonglingng5640]

I'm glad Giant left regular internal routing for this model, the TCR Advanced already looks optimised as it is, both in rim and disc brake form, maybe stiffen up the disc brake frameset's fork a little.

[@ra1zen528]

i appreciate this video for being ao honest and very informative of what significance hidden cables can do and the reasons why and why it is not needed for the one who is not an extreme rider like me too

[@TheSamwhyte]

It’s our fault as consumers. If buyers didn’t buy them the makers wouldn’t make them. Also, I’d argue most people like it not for watts, but simply for aesthetics (it looks better, makes the front end cleaner for light and camera fittings and prevents rub marks on the paint job)

[@Sandzsteedt]

A major down side is that the rub markings move to the inside of the frame and if not inspected yearly or protected against can either damage the housings running inside the frame or the frame itself.

[@lendri83]

It's nice to look at for sure, but when things need fixing, then you're in for a challenge, changing dropbar, brifter, things that you can do easily by yourself on external wired system..

[@TenSapphires]

I tell you another irritating trend. Big lettering on bars and stems. Seatpost also. Besides different diameters it's hard to mix and mach them if not from same brand.

[@edwardso1273]

Couldn't agree more. I intentionally bought a lower spec bike just to get away from internal cable routing

[@galenkehler]

Mechanic here. Internal cables aren't hard to work on, unless you're incompetent. As a rider, it's so much better, you can't snag a cable either riding or in transit. It doesn't rub the paint off your frame. It's much quieter, as wind noise and rattling cables are gone. The aero gains are a "straw man" argument, forget about aero and focus on all the other gains.

[@sifuerik]

❤

[@404nobrakes]

Cool. Your perspective means little though, since you don't have to pay for labor every time you want to do something simple like swap a stem

[@galenkehler]

@@404nobrakes I still have to pay for labour, just more directly. You exchange your time for money at a job, and then take that money to the bike shop. I pay the labour charge directly with my own time, but it's still the same in the end.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

I think people who think ICR is a good idea should have to build bikes equipped with it so they understand what their mechanics go through. I also think equipping a Tourney group bike with ICR is absurd. It's both cheaper than any bike I want to deal with regularly, and more complex than any bike I want to be replacing parts on regularly.

[@biscottigelato8574]

It looks better - case closed~ But really, should be the default for all hydraulics and wireless groupsets. And should not be if its mechanical brake and shifting.

[@deckyputra1281]

Less flexibility to setup bars and stems, extra hassle, extra cost and extra time to work it with no significant benefit to non competitive cyclist. Leave it fully internal cable routing on a race bike, TT or Tri-bike only.

[@boscoboys]

Great point. For our British weather, do you think having hidden cables weigh more than having exposed wires ? I think I will stick with my non internal wired Ribble bike.

[@crazytrainrc6634]

Well after eBikes came out and everyone decided it be smart and route the cables up and over the motor so you have to drop the motor to route a new cable is some car manufacturing BS! Especially as a mechanic! Customer, can you install a new shifter cable? Yes that will be $5 in parts and $100 in labor. Customer WTF why? Oh we have to uninstall your motor 👍. As a racer track side, nothing more fun then missing your race start cause your trying to run a new brake line and fighting the internal routing.

[@AndrewOlsen356]

I'm curious why it matters that the gains are detectable? If a particular rider is unable to perceive the gains; you're saying that makes those gains essentially useless ... because they can't detect them? That is a strange argument. Detectable or not, gains are gains. A better argument is that those gains don't matter if the rider doesn't need them, for example, if a rider is only riding for leisure or for exercise. If a rider doesn't want internal routing, buy a bike without it, problem solved.

[@mariusilerd9581]

Cutting cable housing is a lost art! When ex. Cables are symetrical and done right it looks as good as no cables Imo

[@arxvphoto809]

I feel like bikes actually haven’t added enough tech. For the $5k and up range you should be getting wireless shifting by default and bike computers should be included. Bike tech isn’t behind necessarily but manufacturers can and should do more to integrate it all.

[@kw9000]

The internal cables often require a proprietary integrated stem and handlebar, limiting the choices for customization for the rider. I'm confident none of my riding is in those "extreme conditions". I'm too slow 🐌! The external cables on my 2017 Domane are fine with me.

[@grahampye2314]

Yup, I'm a shop owner and I refuse to sell internally routed bikes. Not just the pain to assemble but a pain to offer a quick bike fit and in many cases causing issues with shifting performance. Explaining to most customers that their shifting sucks due to the routing is awkward. I shouldn't have to explain that a multi million bike dollar company designed a bike that made shifting work like garbage. I would personally only do the super-clean look if I was using electronic shifting and would still prefer a bit of exposed brake lines to not have that feeling that the bars want to self-center and resist turning efforts.

[@povertyspec9651]

Time to quit cycling. Electronic shifting, disc brakes, fully internal cables- it's all utter horsecrap!

[@DG-tf9rp]

Well said. ICR is a pain in the. It is also one of the reasons for the death of .mechanical shifting, for the reasons you gave about the tight bends. I do not race, and missing out on 1mph on a down hill is no big deal to me. I like the look of a well run, clean routed cables, shows a higher level of attention to detail. ICR is also the reason for the push of disc brakes.(bends of the cables) and wireless shifting.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

Disc brakes are about way more than that. Not everyone rides only when it's sunny and warm, and rim brakes are useless in mixed conditions. There are also areas where bikes are really popular, and at the same time, rim brake wheels are considered disposable because the brakes wear the wheels out to the point of structural failure, because of weather and environment.

[@DG-tf9rp]

@@AlexandarHullRichter I agree. If I were to ride a lot in rain, or if I had Carbon wheels, I would want Disc brakes. I live in California, so I have always run Rim brake-Alloy wheels. (35 years of riding) wore out only 1 set of wheels. I would prefer if we have a choice of what to use and buy. Like you said, where you live and terrane you ride is what you need.

[@ariffau]

What’s the point if we can’t get the fit right? Seen any integrated bar and stem with 140mm long and 36 wide? Exactly.

[@jamesbull9879]

Difficult one. It does look great and having trickle down technology means that even club run riders can enjoy looking and feeling good on the bike. The ease of working on the bike is a difficult trade off

[@The2808erik]

Proprietary seatposts and seat clamps need to stop as well.

[@nycyclist4154]

I have a BMC TMR02. It's an aero from a with tripwire design throughout the frame. I place an aero tri rig brake on the front. Cables are visible behind the steer tube leading into the top tube. The cables come out from FSA Plasma handlebar to this area. Yes, I would like the clean look with no cables showing but on an all out are road bike but the cost is not worth it at this time. Plus I prefer rim brakes, in my personal opinion they're more are lighter and easier to maintain. I waited till carbon rims became stronger, lighter with improved heat dissipation I. can definitely wait for things to improve a bit more in this area of brake and internal cable routing. Good video, none the less.

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

Fine, until you need to replace a cable. Or re-cable/re-hose a whole frame. Then the labour charge goes up by 50-100%.

[@juanhidalgo7043]

I agree with the argument. In my case, my pinarello f12 was build to my specifications and so far the internal brake with DI2 no issues. I can also make the argument about disk brakes. For pro cyclist where speeds are around 30 mph on average yes. For the regular cyclist I don’t think so as well. I have been riding for 16+ years and I would never go for disk brakes as I don’t see the need for them (since I stop competitive in the sport). Going back to internal cabling, I can see the issues with maintenance, adjustments, etc. my advise will be to have the bike properly size, and get educated how to service the front integration system if one will be doing service other than a local bike shop. Also, cycling has been evolving and hopefully current needs future cyclist will benefit from new technologies.

[@perrymcguire3806]

Has fully internal cable routing gone too far - yes, most definitely!! The over-use of aero design - which includes internal cabling around the 'cockpit' area, is compromising setup choice. For example, I like round bars - I don't like the flat / 'hammerhead' look of the new aero bars that come with internal cabling yet because of the frame manufacturers preferences, one may not be able to choose 'individual' components such as bars - i.e. round bars which do not allow for internal cabling. Internal cabling for front and rear derailleurs does look good but not everyone wants or needs an aero looking bike. Let's hope there's enough of a push back on this current trend...

[@walshman70]

One of the biggest drawbacks I can see of fully internal cable routing is the lack of opportunity for the Average Joe home mechanic to access entry-level servicing of their own bike! For many riders, being able to do some simple maintenance on their beloved machine is a part of the rewarding experience of cycling. 3 watts seems a trivial amount of gain at the cost of that simple pleasure.

[@Sandzsteedt]

That is one of the benefits of internal cable routing. Drives more service work to shops and increases prices of servicing. Buyers are not fully aware of how much more time servicing internally routed stuff actually takes if the implementation has been done poorly and there is some difficult internal frame features to navigate. It's easily triple or even more work when comparing to old school externally routed bikes.

[@BorjaAOS]

Completly agree. Try using cable housing organizers in the front end cables to tidy your TCR

[@yonglingng5640]

And don't run the Californian Cross routing config. (left shift housing enters the down tube at the right and vice versa) Left-to-left and right-to-right is how I like to route road bikes' shift housings. For MTBs, the Californian Cross looks more suitable.

[@CMCairo]

Agreed, sure if you are racing otherwise just a huge pain even if its just hydro cables.Most people will be having these high end aero bike serviced at shop and those poor mechanics who have to spend hours trying to route and deal with this trend will agree for sure.

[@senorspiegel]

Just did a full replacement of cables and housing on a 9 speed dura ace orbea orca with full external cables, what a dream to work on! Shifts and brakes crisply, and it was remarkably easy compared to all the new road bikes I work on *sigh*

[@מורצדוק-ד3ר]

Internal cables are simply much more beautiful. That's the only real reason - and it's good enough for anyone who can pay for it

[@ssmtb]

Amen! how this technology has found itself in Trail/AM bikes is beyond me

[@yonglingng5640]

Which trail and all-mountain MTBs have them? So far I've only seen it on XC MTBs.

[@ssmtb]

@@yonglingng5640 Commencal Tempo (not sure how you define it, but it's not exactly a XC mtb)

[@DilbertMuc]

To be honest, most people who buy entry level road bikes today are just able to inflate the tires and lube the chain. And that's it. They usually drop their bike at the local store and have the experts deal with the problems. So... internal cable routing is good because all causes of problems are stored away in the robust frame instead of dangling out in the open.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

They're not going to want to spend $500 for a tune up because of that crap, when they only bought the bike for $800. Many shops charge by the hour for internal routing.

[@DilbertMuc]

@@AlexandarHullRichter Yes. In my experience if the price of fixing the defects correctly surpasses some EUR 150,- then people leave it as it is and ride the bike until it breaks and then buy a new one. With the supply chain problems of today however they ran into real problems because there are no bikes available as a replacement. And yes, hourly rates for mechanics render bigger repairs uneconomical. Here they are EUR 90,- per hour.

[@seankearney6915]

I would do without fully internal, but admit I found it nicer through the downtube when cleaning and putting on a bike carrier. Especially the welded lugs and exposed cable where you need to pad between the cable and frame when in a bike carriers clamp. So my money is now in the partially internal whereas it used to be in the exposed inner camp for easier oiling etc, but that was in the old days before the lined outers and water ingress and rust was a real issue.

[@mikenesbitt3500]

You are 100% correct. Same can be said for hydraulic disc brakes too.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

Most mechanical disc brakes suck. There's only one model I've seen that is still made that I'd even think about using.

[@Joe-xi5gh]

Have aero bikes gone too far????! When will Simon admit lightweight beats aero in every form of cycling? How much did BIG AERO pay BikeRadar for this video?

[@jaisejohnson]

YES Let me add. I also root for mechanical shifting than electronic shifting. I don't want to worry about a battery and the juice remaining in it.

[@and2244rew]

Internal frame routing is nice. Routing through the stem and headset … no thanks.

[@Mannerzs]

The added complexity is a bad idea. Would prefer better components elsewhere on the bike.

[@serdiezv]

I think the semi integrated route is way better, such as midrange Trek, or with the FSA/Vision SCR. Let me group the cables to optimise aerodynamics (and aesthetics, who am I fooling), but not making me disassemble EVERYTHING to work on the bike.

[@yonglingng5640]

This guys gets the idea! It only needs to hide from the wind to be aero, not mechanics, like the early 2010s Cervélo S5's rear rim brake (seatstay-mounted instead of chainstay-mounted).

[@Deejayamar786]

Mechanics hates internal cabling and engineers who designed them

[@Sandzsteedt]

Also the customers who have to pay for the extra time that the servicing takes. They just don't know it at the time of purchase.

[@LazyGrayF0x]

It looks great, to be able hide the cables. Installation requires a lot of fiddling. Once setup, it’s fine. I ran my shifter cable housing all the way through, if I need to replace a cable ( once in 5+ years) I won’t need to disassemble entire bike.

[@rangersmith4652]

Internal routing is way overrated for most cyclists. For a pro racing team whose bikes are maintained by a team of pro mechanics, sure. For the rest of us, it's silly. It is one of the things that stops me from buying a brand new bike

[@JonFairhurst]

The right balance is to go integrated on electronic, rather than mechanical, groupsets and hydraulic brakes, and to go with separate bar and stem. Orbea got it right. They use a lager top bearing and standard, round steering tube with a spacer for the hoses and wires to pass through. My Orca OMX has near zero turning resistance, and I like that safety isn’t compromised. It has a “normal” stem, so I can choose my preferred bars. The plate under the stem hides the cables and is removable, so you can easily remove the plate and stem and have enough slack for transport. There aren’t really any downsides. If I’m replacing bearings in the headset, I might as well service the brakes and change fluid anyway. It’s the low end (mech brakes and shifter) and the high-end integrated bar and stem where there are compromises. Electronic/hydraulic & separate bar/stem is the sweet spot for hidden cables.

[@travischapman6763]

Super agree. I’d rather work on my own bike. Still having loads of fun with fully exposed cables.

[@sbsb4995]

I agree with you. The internal cable routing and disc brakes are the biggest marketing scam in the history of bicycles.

[@meepcheep314]

how is a disc brake a scam

[@AdamButlerphotography]

Disc brakes stop you far better in wet weather. Scam? Weird thing to say.

[@11robotics]

Much like 90% of the so-called "new technologies" becoming standard in the road bike world in the past few years, full cable integration comes with: - a hefty price tag (oh well, this one's quite obvious) - added weight (directly and indirectly) - more proprietary standards (and lack of compatibility between brands and with older generations) => harder to replace components individually and harder to constantly upgrade components on your bike - more complex (and time consuming) maintenance and installation (sometimes requiring special tools that cost a lot of money, rendering them less accessible to the individual cyclist who wants to service their own bikes) - technical "side effects" (in this case, mostly due to the sharp cable angles) that force you to adopt other technologies (electronic shifting, hydraulic brakes) when making the switch and, quite unsurprisingly, also justifying the existance of those other technologies - last, but not least, laughable performance gains that are simply outweighed by the extra cost and aforementioned penalties in the case of 80-90% of the road bike users out there, especially those for whom even 3000€ is way too much money to pay for a bike Honestly, the only people who really benefit (statistically speaking) from this are: - (pro) racers to whom 5W will make the difference between winning or losing a race - bike shops and mechanics, as the more complex the maintenance, the less likely it is for the average cyclist to do it 100% at home - of course, the bike industry

[@vibinv5366]

Perfectly said. Fully integrated cable routing compatability should given entry level bike that have capable and upgradable frameset for racing.

[@Jalfred92]

Nicely coloured wire housings look better than no visible cable to me!

[@nickporter3531]

Internal routing may be great for pros and those chasing marginal gains but it is a royal pain for the home mechanic.

[@edwardtiangco1445]

Next thing you know they'll be fully sealed and have proprietary tools and parts to prevent the right to repair or at least make it difficult to repair like what Apple does. Let's hope not

[@mrrodriguezHLP]

I get why they're standardizing. It's easier and cheaper to mass manufacture one kind of standard feature across all bike tiers, call it a new beneficial feature, and charge more for it.