Bill Stewart Discusses Why Volume Is an Overrated Surfboard Measurement

[@keithahlstrom176]

That's great that he can disregard volume as a metric because he has a vast background in shaping and design. Its great that some people have access to custom boards and even access to the shaper for an in-depth discussion about their inseam and the board they need. The mere humans out there need as much info as we can get to make a decision when spending the few dollars we have to spend. So, me knowing the liters is super helpful. It is in no way the only - or even the most important thing, but it certainly informs me as to how much float I'm looking at and whether I'll be able to set that rail or will it cork out on me etc etc. (when all the other info is factored in). The comment that the same volume on a shorter board vs a longer board means dramatically different things is true! It sure helps to know what the volume is on that board though. If I'm looking at a 5'2" with 38L well, this tells me a lot of info about this thing! His attitude is the same one that many of these much respected (well-deserved) shapers have of gatekeeping information and even preventing people from learning the craft of shaping from them. It just swings open a massive airplane hanger sized door for corporate "shapers" to take over the market. Then they look around and wonder why everyone is buying "megacorp" boards, extruded from a factory in china.

[@jadsoueidi9068]

Take it easy billy .. buoyancy is important . Even Kelly considers it when designing new boards ( and talks about it in multiple videos )

[@roninplaya1]

Kelly doesn't shape boards. I don't think he's ever handshaped a board.

[@capetowncoffee]

He literally rides stock Firewire boards that the everyday surfer buys from the same store.

[@WiZoRD_C45]

It's part of taking it mainstream. Sucking as much money as sell outs can, out of everyday people. Ordering customs online off typical stock template's. It's not really a custom is it. How many surf companies stuck to their beliefs? How many chose money profits over doing what's right. Volume is part of selling surfing ideology to the masses. Just a thought. Don't get upset or take it personal...chill. peace.

[@LoQueYoDigoVaAMisa]

Did he tell u that secret?​@@capetowncoffee

[@sethmishler4237]

I think most people want to know volumes of boards so they can look on websites of different shapers and have a better idea of what to get and what might work for them. Having the attitude that people are trying to act like know it alls is hilarious when usually people are intimidated by shapers and old timey surfers that they try to use terminology so they don't get laughed out of a shop. If people in the surf world were friendly it would be easier to have conversations like the ones Bill is talking about.

[@Biglenny-v9r]

I was looking up Something entirely different but landed on this channel and I don’t surf. But I find the idea of elitest surfers extremely funny 😆

[@Biglenny-v9r]

Don’t talk to me or waste me time bro I can stand on a board floating on the water so much better then you 😆

[@walterpeters6858]

It is amazing watching everyone become an "expert" in surfboard design simply because volume has become accessible. If you listen, you will hear other shapers (e.g. Brit Merrick) talk about how volume has become *the* variable surfers look to when deciding whether a board will work for them. Before computer shaping we had no idea what the volume of boards were, and it was a bit more complex as you'd try and balance width, thickness and length when deciding if a board would work for you. Another interesting thought is this: snowboarders don't think about volume when looking for a powder board, why is that? Because they don't have to "paddle" into the slope? Well, they can still get bogged down and sink if their board doesn't have enough planing area... surfboards are similar. A lower volume surfboard with a LOT of surface area can get planing much faster than a high volume board with less surface area.

[@sachaDS0]

Can’t compare my small experience to a shaper that has been doing this all his life but on my journey to dialing in the right equipment for a short board (where volume changes have a bigger impact proportionally), once the shapes, sizes foil & board types are taken into account, volume has been a great tool for sure. For example having tested 15+ boards with different volumes I can feel that boards over 35L felt too bulky and hard to duck dive, and under 30L they started being a pain to paddle and being late on waves. Even if it’s just one variable of the equation I feel that the sweet spot maximizing wave catching, paddling while still being able to duck dive comfortably is between 30-35L. (-minus ~1L on EPS) No need to be too focused on a specific number but having a range was definitely useful :)

[@orpaztron]

30 years ago I had a 5.5 surfboard with a volume of ~22l. From a surfer who paddled non-stop for 6-8 hours, I can surf for a maximum of an hour and a half today. about 5 years ago I ordered a new surfboard for a Maldives surf trip. The first thing I did when I talked to the shaper was to explain that I needed buoyancy and comfortable paddling (width) on the one hand and the ability to duck dive. I still think it was the right thing to ask. Buoyancy is critical when you're not surfing at high levels.

[@Deej805]

This is true, however buoyancy and volume are not the same. Furthermore there are other variables that affect duck diving ability. Epoxy, polyester, glass fibers, wood, etc all have different specific gravity so boards with the same volume can have different buoyancy. Also a narrower and thicker board may be easier to duck dive than wider and thinner board.

[@orpaztron]

@@Deej805 agree. rounded belly shape with longer nose has less buoyancy then a flat board.

[@SurfSplendor]

@orpaztron, your surfboard evolution journey speaks volumes! 🏄‍♂️🤙 #SurfWisdom

[@Nardvens]

Yeah it does as before surfboard volumes was a thing it was a guessing game to know if the board was right for you in the respect it had enough foam. I got sold so many boards that weren’t enough volume for me. It was harder to find your magic board. Now that I know what volume range suits me for different conditions I can buy a board with more confidence

[@SurfSplendor]

@Ronaldo___________ 🤖 With AI boards, the guessing game's over! No more surprises-just your magic board every time. 🏄‍♂️✨ (Don't forget to subscribe for more surf tech updates!) 🤖 #boardvolume

[@michaeldill7620]

I think this concept is comforting for most folks. Sadly they are terrified to just ride any board other then(fill in the blank liter #). I’ve had soo many people ask about liters who come into the shop and exactly your point they have no idea about any of the actual factors that make a board do what is intended to do. Must be frustrating as person with your skill set to now have to follow this mindless calculation that has now enthralled the masses. 😩😳

[@Dahuiism]

Beg to differ, volume is extemely important. What he says is only half of the factors that surfers need to understand. The type of waves you will be riding has a significant factor only on shape and rocker of the board. Volume is what gets you on any wave.

[@hueybart]

I personally find volume really important when buying a board, simply because as want some idea of float. I know its not there are a lot of other factors I need to consider also, which I do, but Bill Stewart should really just suck it up and put the volume on the board, unless he just can't be bothered working it out. Generally there seems to be an attitude with more old school sharpers that it is somehow "not cool" and beneath them to advise volume. Maybe that's why people are going for more factory boards, as it is more predictable. You don't have to be as surprised or disappointed on first surf.

[@SurfSplendor]

@hueybart * Thanks for sharing your thoughts! We understand how important volume is for predicting float and performance. It's interesting to see the different perspectives between old school shapers and factory boards. Need to revisit this topic in future podcasts. #SurfboardVolume #SurfboardDesign #CustomSurfboards

[@johnnymartin3846]

I’m sorry but volume is a great addition to the other aspects to check out of the board to get it as close to being right especially when you’re spending so much money

[@ernz01]

Good stuff! I agree with Bill if your experience and knowledge about surfboard design and dynamics are limited. I'm at a point where I understand that volume is just a result of going wider, thicker or longer and that the actual design elements are really the ones at play. However, sometimes i just want to surf a boat, say 85L+ because i know the volume will help me paddle and catch mushy waves while all the other shortboarders are watching me surf. That being said, I had a Redline 11 @ 9'0 x 24 1/2 x 3 1/2 w/ 86L and that thing was so fun to paddle and catch waves but super bulky to swing around. The 9'0 x 23 1/2 x 3 1/8 w/ 74L was just a little less floaty but because of the design the board did the same exact thing and was much funner to turn around. Each board has it's time and place and only experience will truly make you understand that. Meanwhile, listen to Bill!

[@SurfSplendor]

@ernz01 • Totally agree! Bill's advice rings true, especially in understanding surfboard design. While volume matters, it's the design elements that shape the ride. Riding a higher volume board can be fun, like your Redline 11 experience. Each board has its time and place, and only experience teaches that. Keep listening to Bill! 🏄‍♂️👍 #SurfWisdom

[@LoQueYoDigoVaAMisa]

85l? Holly Whooly Molly

[@derekjenkins1878]

250# advanced surfer here, and YES volume matters. As a counter point, the Harbour dim charts suggest I ride a 10-6 x 24 x 3 5/8 which is FREAKING ridiculous. I can paddle for hours day after day on a finely crafted mid length. Big guy short boards never felt good to me after many MANY customs. Too chunky, lacking glide, and void of true feel. An 8-0x22x3 works amazing for me. Stretch it out. Thin rounded pin tail and nicely pinched rails. Magical. Lost Smooth Operator, Vernor Tree Hugger, etc.

[@johnarmstrong4053]

Thank you. Good point! Question: But could that so called "fifty-liter board" for example, possibly be ridden by the "same person" all other things held constant except for the intended wave?

[@lealmg95]

This guy is describing adjusting volume based on board shape/width/thickness but without calling it volume

[@lalaboards]

Much respect to Bill amazing design head ,best longboards ever, top air spray artist in the world , HOWEVER volume gets an experienced shaper even closer to what the customer needs even on hand shapes .Once I started plugging all my designs into AKU, I was shocked how off mine and most other shapers were as far as targeting float . . Since Bill does so many longboards the margin for error is less .Denying volume is not very scientific in my opinion . I would love to get back on the show and discuss this . I have detailed examples and number sheets defending my position "receipts " .Im astounded by how many of the greatest shapers in the world are unable to understand this .Ill make a board foe David proving my point and theory .

[@SurfSplendor]

Jon, let's do it! I'd love to catch up with you. And I'm overdue for a trip to your area.

[@eyestamihana2114]

I am @ a fit 100kg have been surfing a 41.75L PuddleFish Carbon wrap epoxy. On the litre sheet it should read enough for me to catch almost any waist height wave under the sun? HOWEVER this is not the case. The truth is I absolutely struggle to catch waves in the thing! I can catch waves in my 36L Fishbeard poly way easier than I can on the PuddleFish! Plane shape/Rocker/Rocker/Nose width(@12”)/Construction- they all play a more important role than the Litre sheet. Go talk talk to a Shaper-they KNOW! Go talk to a salesman-all they want to do is SELL!

[@lalaboards]

@@eyestamihana2114 First of all Carbon wraps have no stringer. Your other poly board has one . Big difference In Speed . The center can bend and push water in the center slowing the board down is one element in the equation with carbon wraps . I Believe you misconstrued what I was saying. I’m talking about using the liters and the manual measurements together to problem solve. Not knowing liters cuts out a huge variable in the equation . Not all shapers know and not all shapers use proper numbers . You would be surprised and don’t get me started on computer cuts . Computer can produce stellar results or they can be your worst nightmare . Hate to see you spend all that money and be frustrated but your center is bending while paddling slowing you down . If you put those same liters on a conventional stringer board , I bet you see a huge difference.

[@lalaboards]

@@SurfSplendor a lot has happened since we last chatted and when asked . I’m getting a board from Bill Stewart lol . I just found out that Stewart and Jeff Alexander went to the same event to see Miss Budweiser race boat . Both came up with insane hydrodynamic concepts . Bills long boards are the best in my opinion . I’m a huge fan of his . Your show is growing too you are doing great work !!!!!!!

[@eyestamihana2114]

@@lalaboards thanks for the info and yes definitely agree with the wholistic approach for sure. I fully understand what you are saying about the carbon wrap/eps; and that back up what this shaper was saying about people getting”stuck”in the litre thing and that’s it’s not the be all and end all. I left school and worked in a surfboard factory learning the craft from an underground Legend(well not so underground now as he is one of the head shapers for Lost Surfboards in Aus), who learnt the art of Handshaping from two of the most Legendary and Iconic surfer shapers to come from our country, and well before shaping machine were even dreamed of, let alone the world we live in e in now where the first question asked is “how many litres). Yes times have moved on and so has technology, but unfortunately the machine shaped mass produced shaping”industry”that has taken over the “surf world”has meant things have moved away from surfer to shaper communion where the surfer knew the local shaper and the shaper knew the surfer..:.:there is so much unquantifiable knowledge and that only a shaper knows the feeling….

[@lmab7115]

Times are changing. Machines give us the chance to get another parameter about our beloved toys. Ask John John if he is not aware of his boards volume

[@surfingcavachon]

Agree that nothing in surfboard design is linear. That said importance of volume increases as the surfer gets heavier. Also, the impact of volume on performance increases exponentially the further you go higher or smaller.

[@SurfSplendor]

@surfingcavachon Absolutely! Surfboard design is an art, and volume plays a vital role. It's like catching the perfect wave - nothing linear, just pure surf magic! 🌊✨ #SurfDesign #VolumeMatters #SurfingWisdom

[@eyestamihana2114]

@@SurfSplendorLook at things wholistically and with balance-there you will find baby Yoda🙏

[@Phaidrus]

Being a 3D object, each and every surfboard has a volume, whether it's written on it or not. It's better to know it than not, like it's good to know the earth is round.

[@SurfSplendor]

It's a measurement most of us over 40 didn't have early on. It became too important at one point (arguably still), but it definitely has a place.

[@pierswoo76]

I think telling a great shaper how much volume you want is like telling a fancy chef how you want your steak cooked 😂

[@adambamf9365]

or asking for tomatoe sauce for an exspensive cut

[@erikhancock98569]

🤙

[@Thestripper1]

It's so easy to calculate volume these days so I can't see any good reason not to do it. But sure, there are shapers who don't want to write down the dimensions either.

[@garyh4458]

Board makers would care about volume if they had a way to measure it. But, unless you have a dunk tank or something like that you have no idea what volume it has because boards are not rectangles.

[@surfchandisurfconnection]

I definitely agree with Bill’s it’s true. The biggest problem in modern surfing world is VOLUME 😅

[@SurfSplendor]

@surfchandisurfconnection - Bill's got it right...but Who's problem is it? 🔊 #billstewart #volumeproblems

[@erikhancock98569]

It's a joke! If you are a beginner volume is the last thing you should be thinking about, you get a board appropriate for your skill level. If you are an intermediate surfer again volume doesn't have anything to do with your ability to surf. At the intermediate stage you should be able to look at a boards outline, width, and thickness and know if its right for you. An intermediate surfer can put a board under his or her arm and get a very accurate idea if it feels right. An expert level surfer is the only one that has enough sense of their equipment to incorporate volume. Quit looking on the Internet to get your answers. Support local surf shops and board builders you goons!

[@SurfSplendor]

@erikhancock3186 Preach it, Erik! 🙌🏄‍♂️ Who needs internet advice when you've got local surf shop wisdom? 🏄‍♀️💡 #ShopLocalSurfGlobal #BoardWisdom

[@finao8231]

Almost every surfboard website online has a volume calculator..... just saying 🤨

[@ondrejjanek3941]

When is volume important? For example you choosing a summer smaller wave board and you want as much of a board as you can duckdive. There will be variations due to displacement of that volume sure but for example I know (being 95kg guy) sinking 35l is no problem in any length and I know I start to struggle at 50l and with lot of effort I can sink 70l 9ft longboard. If I have to to guess that from l/w/t well that will tell me only if it is thin or thick board. So for riding aspect volume is not that important true. But for choosing board or for getting past the break. Volume is for sure important. Because 100duckdives is way more easier than 100 turtlerolls.

[@SurfSplendor]

All data can help, volume included, but people have fetishized the importance of this one thing. And yeah... duck diving vs turtle rolls is a great example

[@beckersworldinc.171]

Cmon Bill, you make the Clydesdale for a reason

[@matty9094]

Yeah, miss me on all this man… to condescendingly say volume means nothing in surfboards and go on a nonsensical rant about volume only matters for buying gallons of milk is peak lunacy. Volume is just as much part of the equation as length width rocker and bottom contour. To say surfers should forget about volume and just trust someone like you who intuitively “knows” what size board is right is just so arrogant. See ya!!

[@SurfSplendor]

@matty9094, diverse opinions shape our surf culture. While some value volume, others prioritize different factors. 🏄‍♂️ #RespectfulDebate

[@Brudelay]

to know your preferred volume is important as fuck.

[@SurfSplendor]

@Brudelay • Thankfully my shaper has my same weight and height, never inquired about volume. Also, skill factor plays a very large part too. #SurfingSkills #Estrats

[@WiZoRD_C45]

10000000% concur. Kudos

[@SurfSplendor]

@WiZoRD_C45 • like the approval. 💯 #surfcommunity

[@yesmaybe630]

Pump up the volume!

[@SurfSplendor]

Nice.... @yesmaybe630 • #ChristianSlater #PirateRadio 🔊

[@derekjohnlamoya2037]

I Agree.

[@chrislevuiqes2759]

Volume = skill 😅

[@bmartinot]

Grumpy dinosaur mentality.

[@SurfSplendor]

haha, happens to the best of us