Kobe, Nash, or Iverson: 1996 NBA Redraft | Bill Simmons’s Book of Basketball 2.0 | The Ringer

[@dbsuper2928]

Camby over Ben Wallace.. that's crazy

[@petermadash4488]

Blasphemy.

[@dbsuper2928]

4 time dpoy ain't enough I guess

[@MVSteve13]

Yeah they TWEAKIN tweakin

[@coleeason6007]

Well I'm done couldn't make it pass the second pick

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

Ben Wallace over Camby anyday.

[@danielbrick4334]

Love it, but in future could you add who was originally taken onto the layout please

[@tysoncowan5192]

Agreed, it would add some much needed/entertaining hindsight.

[@Mikegaryhouse]

Daniel Brick Agreed! Came to the comments to suggest it myself. Great minds!

[@danielbrick4334]

brad monaghan Thank you 🙏

[@I-do-not-read-replies]

FallopianJones False.

[@yoicun5636]

@@LARRY113Z Exactly lmao

[@dylanbach8578]

The Steve Nash slander really is on full display in the comments. Look, I grew up a Lakers fan - those 2005-2007 years where the Suns regularly embarrassed us? - yup I hated Nash, because he was THAT GUY. When he entered the Suns in 2004 (a 29 win team the prior year even with Marion, IsoJoe and Stoudamire), he immediately made them a offensive juggernaut pushing them to 62 wins. The next year is when people really underestimate him saying that his team was just so good. Well, Stoudamire was injured for the year, they traded away Joe Johnson and Quentin Richardson and yet still had a 54 win record with a decimated team. That is why he got MVPs. Two years, two unlikely top contender finishes. By 2010, Nash had anchored 5 out of the top 10 most efficient offenses of ALL TIME - between the Mavs and the Suns. For comparison, Magic had only 5 out of the top 30 most efficient offenses of all time at that point. The whole argument that Dantoni's system made him who he was, well he was doing it before the system as well. with the Mavs, he had Dirk, yes, but who else? Finley and Walker? They made their offensive rating GO DOWN. Ok, how about Marion, Stoudamire, Diaw, Barbosa? With Nash, Marion was a top slashing two-way wing, Stoudamire was an all star, Diaw was most improved and Barbosa was a perenial 6MOTY. Without him, Marion was a good rotation player, Stoudamire's efficiency/TO rate tanks, and Diaw/Barbosa become journeymen until they get their big break at the end of their careers. Nash impacted his team in a way very few players have. Iverson is great but to say that Nash>Iverson is blasphemous, is silly.

[@elbowgang9715]

Pure lie off bail. Marbury had that 2003 Suns team in the playoffs where they almost upset San Antonio. They fired Frank Johnson early in 2003-2004,traded Marbury and tanked the rest of the season. Stop trying to rewrite history

[@JDandOL]

@@elbowgang9715 exactly ppl wanna make up history to there own liking

[@JDandOL]

All that praise ur giving nash and yet he still has 0 championships and 0 appearances in the finals. Dont ever put his name in the same discussion as some one like magic. It's disrespectful. Who cares about the suns beating the lakers from 2005-2007 when the lakers were a 7th and 8th seed for those playoff years. The lakers still almost beat the suns in a 7 game series in 06 when they were clearly out matched. Once the lakers became a good team again in 2008 they made easy work of the suns. Nash is overrated because he's a white guy that guys like bill and ryan and plenty of other white fans can relate to and that's fine. All of this is subjective. A person can think nash is the goat, whatever floats ya boat. But to most basketball fans especially those old enough like myself who watched nash and Iverson in there prime it's not even close. Nash was great but he had the best offense in the nba for almost a decade and got 0 championships and 0 finals appearances. U can come up with all the excuses u want, but they couldn't get it done. Iverson never had a great team around him like nash did and Iverson still made it to the finals unlike nash and Iverson also won a mvp and won so many scoring titles it's insane. Iverson was overall a better player than nash and honestly it's not even close. Nash played with amar'e, marion, diaw, Quentin Richardson, young joe Johnson, Barbosa and nash's stats got a boost playing in dantoni's offense. And that's just in Phoenix. I'm not even talking about the 50+ win team he had in Dallas that was loaded and couldn't get it done until nash left....Imagine what Iverson would of done in that mike dantoni offense? Maybe they would of made it to the finals one of those years with a Iverson instead...ppl like to make history into what they want it to be but just go back and look at how those Phoenix teams dominated in the regular season with nash but then the playoffs came around and they always folded. Always

[@dylanbach8578]

@@JDandOL Hey there! First off, I wanna say I appreciate your thoughtful response. This back and forth is what makes sports debates super fun and engaging. To one of your first points about race/ethnicity playing a factor, I agree. There is a fixation on uplifting non-african americans to a pedestal that one could argue is rooted in anti-blackness. We clearly see that with folks who claim Bird was better than Lebron (SPOILER: he is not), and the recent phenomena surrounding players like Kristaps, Doncic, Linsanity 2012, etc. Throwing in the fact that Nash was born in South Africa during apartheid, grew up in Canada, and played basketball in the Silicon Valley, makes this point stand out even moreso. It is a factor that should not be ignored, and deserves to be examined further. For the sake of this argument, I'm going to try and focus mainly on basketball stats and impact. Comparing the offensive effectiveness of Nash and Magic doesn't take away anything from Magic's greatness, but rather shows that Nash's impact shouldn't be taken lightly. I never said that Nash is better than Magic and I know that throwing in other accolades + stats will always fall on the side of Magic so I am not sure where this idea of disrespect comes from? Secondly, the Pau-Kobe era Lakers met the Suns only once in 2010 and it went to 6, so "making easy work" is hyperbole. Thirdly, Nash led the best offense, and yes, he got to 0 finals, but was a consistent playoff contender, always being pushed out by the Mavs or Spurs. All that really proves is that the adage of "defense wins championships" rings VERY true, as Iverson's 1 finals appearance was on his arguably BEST defensive team he ever had, while Nash's teams were never built to support his defensive deficiencies like the Sixers were for AI. Your next point is where I have the most issues. I do very much agree that AI was an overall more talented player, no doubt, but I come from a place of valuing a player based on how they make the team better, putting them in a position to win. You say that "u can come up with all the excuses you want," but immediately follow it with an excuse as to why Iverson only made 1, in the Eastern conference no less. You say that they we should imagine what AI woulda done with that team, but thats the thing, he would have never been desired for that team because a scoring guard would not have made them better. Remember that year him and Melo teamed up? He had an amazing statistical campaign but Billups replacing him made them the better team because of how he made the team as a whole work. You say that "ppl like to make history into what they want it to be" but that is exactly the issue I see with Iverson. We tend to forget who Iverson was near the end of his career, especially after he got traded from Denver: a locker room problem, a somewhat selfish player, and ball-stopper, all the bad things about his game that were ignored because of his spectacular athleticism and offensive game that hadn't aged well. For all the flak that Kobe, Westbrook, Melo get for being arguably selfish players, we have eulogized Iverson for those same tendencies. When A.I. shoots a lot, despite how many times he misses, he is demonstrating heart. I see that as revising history. All in all, I would pick Nash because this video is a redraft: a thought debate about who you would want on your team. Iverson may have won 4 scoring titles, but Nash won 5 assists titles, many of them going on 50-40-90 seasons. Nash regularly scored 16 ppg, and coupled with 10 assists (generating at least 20 points per game before factoring in 3 pointers), and you can see why there is an argument to who you would want on your team more.

[@wesmaly]

@@dylanbach8578 that long-ass comment, and you didn't even address the main point. You said "When he entered the Suns in 2004 (a 29 win team prior year...), he immediately made them a offensive juggernaut pushing them to 62 wins." You conveniently don't mention that they won 44 games in 2003 with Marbury and a ROOKIE Amare and that the Sun completely changed their offensive system with D'Antoni taking over in 2004. Stop commenting on race and reply to the other guy's point. Stop ignoring key facts when you make an argument...you're leaving out a big, relevant part of the picture

[@simonxfrederick]

Absolutely positively fantastic idea to keep us going through this NBAless isolated period. THANK YOU

[@HoonAgain]

Simon Frederick ditto

[@razkable]

nice to see 22 players from this year scored over 5000 points in the nba.....thats a lot...ben and atkins did it and were not drafted...

[@zanerafael4168]

i guess im asking the wrong place but does any of you know a tool to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid lost my login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me

[@seena96]

I would take Peja or Ben Wallace over Marcus Camby easy.

[@alexvoigt9204]

I watched this again recently for two reasons: 1.) To do a spit take one more time about y'all picking Camby over Ben Wallace 2.) To determine how many of the '96 guys would've absolutely gone #1 overall in a 2000 redraft. I count 8: Kobe, Allen, Nash, Iverson, O'Neal, Camby, Wallace, Marbury (could probably even argue Peja, Shareef and MAYBE Toine as well). My god, what a loaded draft.

[@cgomc323]

When he said a Quarterback comp for Iverson, it's so simple, it's Michael Vick. Vick was electrifying and extremely fun to watch, in his prime he was an iconic figure in the sport. However, like Iverson, Vick was controversial off the field, never won anything significant and was relatively inefficient (completing around 50-55% of his passes). AI=Vick.

[@Phillygoat1983]

Bingo

[@michaelsledge3904]

100%

[@illmaticthis]

I’d say Kyler

[@benhaney9629]

Speaking of QBs... Have you seen Iversons Qb video from high school? Impressive enough playing basketball at that size. He was a damn good football player as well...

[@PIP...33]

BRYANT IS NOBODY NEVER SAW PLAYOFF IN CAREER. NASH ALWAYS HAD 3 OR 4 ALLSTARS SNIPERS. DIRK FINLEY STACKHOUSE ANTOINE WALKER JAMISON...THEN ISO JOE JOHNSON, AMARE, MATRIX THOSE ARE 10 ALLSTARS. NAME ME 1 ALLSTAR IVERSON HAD BESIDE OLD MUTOMBO WHO CANT SHOOT ??? BRYANT IS NOBODY. IM GLAD KARMA PAYBACK TO LIAR. REST IN PIECES FOR GIRL THAT U ABUSED 2003 AND RIGGED RINGS BY TIM DONAGHY.

[@Suneed1997]

I love iverson, but I understand why he’s out at 4. What I can’t agree or understand is Ben Wallace and Peja dropping to 7 and 8. They’re so underrated in my opinion. I’d take them earlier than camby at least

[@t-god2439]

verbadum22 that wasent Iversons fault bro

[@brandonethereal1084]

? I don't understand how's he's at number 4. Ray Allen over him? Come on.... Kobe and Nash I don't mind but Ray? These so called sports experts today just lose credibility.

[@ShanLoHoops]

@@brandonethereal1084 lets be realistic here and stop the nostalgia, he wasn't efficient, him scoring doesn't translate to playoff success other than that 1 season he had, he can't co exist with another co-star which is hurts the teams he is on cause you will never win a chip being the only Elite/all star level player on the team...he was a great player but lets not overblow his value.

[@brandonethereal1084]

@@ShanLoHoops No nostalgia....... You wanna talk about someone with no playoff success because of their style look no further than James choke Harden. Ai did all he could.🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️

[@tubenachos]

I'd take Allen or AI for sure. However I got AI over Nash. 1. Kobe 2. Allen 3. AI 4.Nash 5. Wallace 6. Peja

[@nocomment1469]

Compare Iverson to Dominique Wilkins , top player at his time, no rings yet greatly respected by other players

[@JAILEDforMEMES]

no comment or Charles Barkley

[@nocomment1469]

@@JAILEDforMEMES sure , yet i feel Barkley is a level above both these players

[@blowc1612]

no comment definitely was. Barkley would had a ring if it wasn’t for MJ. Barkley also was able to sign with the best players around him. He was the best player in the 92 Dream Team. Not saying he is the best player out of that team, but during the Olympics Barkley would had been the Olympics Finals MVP if they had individual awards.

[@stevenbarnes7960]

Sound dumb asf Ai top 10

[@nocomment1469]

@@stevenbarnes7960 and he didn't win shit , just like Dominique. Both are top 50 not top 10 😂😁 Iverson sure ain't top ten you moron child, when we're u born ? In the "I know everything era"¿? Stfu child.

[@aaronhooper3328]

Peja was definitely ahead of his time, a 6’9/6’10 sniper who could handle the rock and play the 2-4.

[@blowc1612]

Aaron Hooper he can also pass. Peja arguably have one of the best pass in the NBA. Behind the back perfect pass to Bobby.

[@aaronhooper3328]

Angelo Amon Oh I know the play

[@blowc1612]

Aaron Hooper personally I would had taken Peja in today’s game at 2. Taller version of Klay Thompson that can create his own shot. He can play at the top of the key and facilitate. Describing his game today would literally be considered number 1 draft.

[@aaronhooper3328]

Angelo Amon Agreed! And if his career went similar, in today’s game, as it did for his actual career, he could’ve slid to a stretch 4 in his later years. He was so versatile

[@slickeddy2000]

Angelo Amon Klay Thompson way better Defense side of ball never a night off on that side and being more Clutch movements . He has a reputation for big Game 6 for closing you the series or bringing you into a gm 7 . Peja was a better Keith Van Horn mister 3/4 quarters

[@OGPND]

You guys are severely down playing the lack of support AI had in Philly. Those Bucks team had a prime Glen Robinson, prime Sam Casell and solid veteran rotation players - those teams underachieved every season and the Bucks missed the playoffs in 2002. Although, that's more of an indictment of Robinson Mutombo was 36 years old when traded to Philly and was barely a double digit scorer, sure he was still a great interior defender but c'mon... I don't necessarily disagree with taking Ray #3 but you really discredited Iverson unfairly here

[@enriqueworthy4481]

P ND simmer down after Sam. You never saw Etan Thomas make a lay up in your life

[@elbowgang9715]

@@enriqueworthy4481 Tim Thomas was balling on the Bucks too

[@chrisisslick]

Right on the $! They talking about Iverson didn't care about winning. With what team?! Iverson was the offense.

[@kawaiiafangirl]

I think that their point was that you could build a team around Ray Allen compared to Allen Iverson. As they mentioned, Stackhouse, van Horn, Iguodala all could've been a great 2nd player for AI for years to come but nothing materialized there. Also, Iverson had to play his style which stunted the offense. As Bill also mentioned, Detroit nosedived once they traded for AI while Denver stayed with their relative amount of wins. They also didn't talk about his inefficiency which I understand that Iverson is barely "6'0" and that he had to shoot more due to a lack of another star, but it doesn't completely explain why AI shot 38.7% and 39.8% in separate seasons. The Bucks also improved by 8 games compared to the 76ers' 4 games in Ray and AI's rookie seasons.

[@eliwurster5237]

Mckie was the 6th man and mutumbo won dpoy in 2001

[@homerthompson416]

Come on Bill, how can you not remember Stojakovic hitting back-breaking three after back-breaking three on the Lakers in Games 3 & 4 of that second round series when the Mavs swept the Lakers in 2011? That Game 4 is always the first thing I think of when I hear his name. As a Celtics fan how can you not remember his great fuck you Lakers moment?

[@Chalk89]

Saying Allen Iverson didn't care about winning is a downright falsehood. What you mean to say is, 'Allen didn't always put himself and his team in the best position to win...because of his ego.' Ray Allen was always a good player, especially during his time with the Sonics. He was never, ever, the main guy or top player in the NBA. Safer bet to win the title? How is it Ray Allen considering he never made it to the final round until he joined the Celtics and Heat - teams in which he was never the go-to, not the second, or even third option. Longevity is something to celebrate but not over dominance.

[@Wolvie12100]

Bill is obviously just a huge fan of that Bucks team in '01.

[@navakashgill2967]

Charles Kruzits chill pal 😂

[@20marvelman]

@Shawn Kemp yeah KD the softest player today

[@20marvelman]

Ray is gonna help you win. Iverson is going to make you play his way and not take anything seriously. Look up all the stories and how he almost got traded before the '01 run. The one year he let himself be coached it worked because of the team around him. Otherwise, that dude cared too much about his image.

[@Chalk89]

@@20marvelman Mick, I lived the first 22 years of life in Philadelphia during his run with the 76ers - I know the good and the bad. Your opening line is counter-productive to your argument. Ray Allen is certainly going to help you win but is he a standalone player? Of course not, he doesn't have that star power. The 76ers front office ran by Billy King was atrocious and did little to build a roster. Ray Allen on the 76ers wouldn't have even made the postseason.

[@MrSaxxie]

Glad to see Bill and Ryen give Jermaine Oneal some love! One of my faves from the 2000’s

[@earfboy2146]

Mike Saks Simmons is the only media member that gives Pacers players their due credit. Jermaine was a beast on both sides of the ball

[@MeMe-td1ye]

Not better than Wallace

[@tommycochran1019]

He was the reason, besides Reggie, the Pacers almost won a title.

[@PIP...33]

@@tommycochran1019 ARTEST WAS THIRD MVP VOTE AND WON DPOY U BLIND DAMAGED PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. JERMAINE WASNT REASON U LIAR. ALMOST ??? WELL BIG BEN WASNT ''ALMOST'' HE HUMILIATED KOBRICK AND SHAQ U LIAR.

[@tommycochran1019]

@@MeMe-td1ye yes he is. Wallace couldn’t score. O’Neal was good on both ends. Give me a break😂

[@cb4460]

The thing you missed, Chuck to Iverson in the fantasy draft #1 overall because he thought the draft was who would you want in an all-star game but it really was an all-star fantasy draft for who you want all-time...

[@fortynights1513]

Totally a missed detail. Also a hysterical moment

[@StoneThatTheBuilderRefusedKK]

I'd take Nash over Iverson too.

[@honeydontpourhoneyinmyassh2497]

Nash is a loser. How many NBA finals did Steve Trash make?

[@aarontan2197]

@@honeydontpourhoneyinmyassh2497 iverson got nothing without that 01

[@jordan12118]

@@aarontan2197 Nash has nothing at all

[@aarontan2197]

@@jordan12118 LMAO check up his resume then come back lol

[@aarontan2197]

@Luke Skytalker i mean we can say that, but at least iverson did get one game vs lakers.

[@isuppose1788]

Pretty damn good redraft but Camby was too high. Ben Wallace and Peja offer so much more winning value... especially in their prime. Are we drafting Camby just for longevity over these two? I might even take Marbury before Camby.

[@mike04574]

Nah camby over Marbury

[@matt9546]

Bill Simmons loves the word sneaky

[@MAGIICS]

C'mon Camby over Ben Wallace ..

[@px7219]

Nice, tied for me kinda

[@Walrus286]

Thought the same thing about O’Neal. Wallace as the centerpiece of that pistons defense was insane. Completely insane.

[@fortynights1513]

@@Walrus286O’Neil at five or six is fine, and the fact that you could logically argue he’s sixth speaks to how good this draft was

[@d.s.6268]

Kind of agree with everything here except for Camby who is way too high. I wouldn't take him any higher than 9th.

[@razkable]

i would of liked to see them go 3 more picks and see which 2 between jerome williams rasho nesterovic and malik rose got left off....thats a nice debate after damp and wright should go 15 and 16 imo...like I think malik was worse than those other 2...I really do but he had big playoff moments so what do you do there....on a neutral team i'm taking those other two over him but rose had a role on the spurs title teams and performed when needed in big games

[@PIP...33]

BRYANT IS NOBODY NEVER SAW PLAYOFF IN CAREER. NASH ALWAYS HAD 3 OR 4 ALLSTARS SNIPERS. DIRK FINLEY STACKHOUSE ANTOINE WALKER JAMISON...THEN ISO JOE JOHNSON, AMARE, MATRIX THOSE ARE 10 ALLSTARS. NAME ME 1 ALLSTAR IVERSON HAD BESIDE OLD MUTOMBO WHO CANT SHOOT ??? BRYANT IS NOBODY. IM GLAD KARMA PAYBACK TO LIAR. REST IN PIECES FOR GIRL THAT U ABUSED 2003 AND RIGGED RINGS BY TIM DONAGHY.

[@fortynights1513]

I’d take Camby at eight over Marbury

[@hittz2581]

This pod is for 70s to 98 babies... and I love it, I love it on spotify...my first time seeing the video lol

[@krasmazov009]

Quarantine has gotten all of us. I have spends days rewatching 2014 Spurs games.

[@How2BeANoob]

@@Kingsley114 i still swear to this day that Diaw should've been Finals MVP that year. He was the best Spur no cap

[@full6330name]

Well if you want to watch some old basketball you might as well watch the best team basketball ever. That shit was insane. 5 guys moved as 1.

[@acutting11]

Look, a reasonable argument can be made for Steve Nash at #2, but Ray Allen over Allen Iverson is what I would expect to hear out of an 18 year old who never saw him play.

[@kalinwang1]

No Nash only played well in Phoenix under the same system that brought us linsanity and James harden stats. I would not even pick Nash at all.

[@ananth7865]

@@kalinwang1 yeah cause iverson was so good without the ball right?

[@UtotheJ]

kalinwang1 Oh... well in that case, Kobe only won championships in LA with a system that also made Jordan win... don’t pick Kobe either... idiot... now that we established your argument is stupid... Nash didn’t just play well under D’Antoni... a Nash-led team was the best offensive team for 10 straight seasons (how many seasons did D’Antoni coach Nash?) Do you know how many games D’Antoni with Marion Amare, Joe Johnson, Barbosa (the SAME team minus Nash) won prior to Nash’s arrival? 29 games... Nash singlehandedly gave the Suns a historical 33 win turnaround.

[@kalinwang1]

@@UtotheJ You feel to make your point with Kobe who played for one team so we have nothing to really know. Steve Nash played for the mavericks With a prime dirk and Steve Nash played with the lakers. The only system he played well in was the same system that brought us linsanity and bloated stats for Harden. Just like with Lin and Harden, Steve Nash only played well in that system. That d antoni system made an average bench player (Lin) play like an all star. It made a 2 year all star player (Nash) play like a back to back MVP(still should not have won) and it made a 7 time all star player (Harden) play like an all time Great. Wake up, Nash was not that good. Meanwhile Jason Kidd played well on every team he's been on. Kidd went back to back to the finals in the east and won in the west with the same players Nash couldn't win with.

[@UtotheJ]

kalinwang1 So much stupidity in one comment... 1. Kobe played for one team, so we don’t really know? Kobe without Phil Jackson was a first round exit AT BEST. You don’t have to play for different teams if your argument is SYSTEM 2. Neither Nash nor Dirk were in their primes on the Mavericks and they went to the CONFERENCE FINALS losing to eventual champion Spurs after Dirk was injured 3. You do realize Linsanity lasted TWO weeks, right? Nash lasted 10 years with AND WITHOUT D’Antoni 4. You do ALSO realize the system D’Antoni implemented for Harden is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE? Nash was PnR with shooters rotating the perimeter. Harden was switching to a favorable matchup to ISO... NOTHING alike. 5. What does Kidd have to do with 1996 draft? 6. Yes Kidd is great, but back to back Finals only to be completely embarrassed against the West in both Finals. 7. Won with the same players in the West Nash couldn’t win with? Is this a joke? LITERALLY not a single point you made is a fact... stop wasting my time...

[@dullestpenguin4151]

Your Ray Allen over Iverson take is ridiculous. I lived through this, Ray was best as a third wheel. AI can carry a team on his back for a decade.

[@Den10_Prime]

Thank you

[@Mrjacques91]

Blasphemy!!!! Ray allen over Iverson?? How sway??!

[@thilosoccer]

They literally explain why for like 15 minutes. I dont agree with them, but hey, I count the culture

[@keifer39]

Just heard that, paused the video, agreeing with your comment and not bothering to watch the rest. They lost all credibility there. Iverson haters claiming not to be. period.

[@TheNeeks6]

They tried to justify it as Ray being a safer bet to be part of a championship team. I would think that as a top 3 pick, you should lean heavily on the player that is more likely to lead you to a Chip, to me that’s still Iverson. Otherwise, I would pick someone like Steve Kerr over Iverson.

[@jimraynor224]

@Liam Foster People forget that Ray was only taking backseat when he got to the tail end of his career. Ray was an on-ball, off-ball monster like Durant and Curry. He was and could be your primary scorer at his prime. I love AI but as a GM, you take Ray Allen for most teams. AI was predecessor to D. Rose types wherein you need a defensive-minded team around him with shooters. If AI were more like CP3, then yeah, you take him over Ray Allen.

[@kawaiiafangirl]

I think that their point was that you could build a team around Ray Allen compared to Allen Iverson. As they mentioned, Stackhouse, van Horn, Iguodala all could've been a great 2nd player for AI for years to come but nothing materialized there. Also, Iverson had to play his style which stunted the offense. As Bill also mentioned, Detroit nosedived once they traded for AI while Denver stayed with their relative amount of wins. They also didn't talk about his inefficiency which I understand that Iverson is barely "6'0" and that he had to shoot more due to a lack of another star, but it doesn't completely explain why AI shot 38.7% and 39.8% in separate seasons. The Bucks also improved by 8 games compared to the 76ers' 4 games in Ray and AI's rookie seasons.

[@WillFine]

"we're pro Iverson guys" as they continue to slander him

[@punchsmack]

It's not slander if it's the truth

[@MVSteve13]

Truth hurts. Guy wasn’t THAT good

[@dariusewing6962]

These guys are tripping

[@andrewnyman4128]

I think he was the more skilled player than Allen or Nash, but he didn't seem to elevate his teams in the playoffs. He meant more for the culture and perception of the game, than he actually did to his teams' winning on the court. He is a less efficient Kyrie in my opinion. All world handles and ruthless to the cup. He just didn't have "it", whatever in the hell that means.

[@here4boxing]

nitsuj salohcin he was THAT good. He was just a hard player to build around. Great individual talent however.

[@jordan12118]

Iverson wouldn't have wanted to play for either Canada team.Imagine him in Minnesota instead of Marbury. Iverson and KG win at least one title

[@nigodemoscarfo3149]

Would've been crazy

[@jbizz80]

KG would've had the same problems with Iverson as he had with Marbury. There's only one basketball and both guys wanted to control the offense. It would not have worked.

[@jordan12118]

@@jbizz80 Iverson is a much better player than Marbury though. I trust that they would've figurued it out

[@Phillip_of_Burns]

@@jbizz80 People in Minnesota wanted KG to take more shots late. He was very unselfish, and would pass up contested shots, passing to wide open teammates, who generally sucked... AI and KG could have worked... KG didn't have problems with Marbury, it was Marbury who wanted to be the man.

[@johnberry2678]

JBiz80 Their cut from the same cloth, I’d imagine they figure out how to play with each other

[@rashadellison9593]

I think Bill was REAL Selective with his opinions of the best Iverson Teammates, Stackhouse was when he was a rookie and Dikembe was never a second option ever. How many times did Dikembe make the Conference Finals??? 1 with AI. Suprised he didnt bring up C-Webb, He was hurt like hell.

[@petermadash4488]

They are always trying to sway our thinking these media guys. That's why they omit a lot of context in their analysis.

[@waxl121]

Matt Geiger and Eric Snow is what AI had to work with. AI is criminally overlooked. He had nothing in Philly.

[@ohkay2360]

Last I checked mutombo made the finals with the nets

[@rashadellison9593]

@@ohkay2360 you mean with the exact Nets team that made it the year before w/o Dikembe bcuz he was the second option..

[@ohkay2360]

@@rashadellison9593 no I mean like how you are wrong saying he only made one conference finals. Now that you have been proven wrong you are trying to what? Change your narrative? You said he made one conference finals. Take your L and move on. Like Iverson used to do.

[@LordBranniganThe]

Thank you for having a topic that doesn't involve MJ or Lebron

[@JackFlash771]

Barkley drafted Iverson thinking it was an "all-star game only" draft, which makes sense considering how AI was treated in those showcase games and how often he had the ball.

[@thatguy3731]

This Iverson slander is out of control. All of y’all would’ve been fired as GMs long before Nash was anywhere near MVP level.

[@wesleybright3300]

Omaar Poitevien frfr they just talking, Iverson come in averaging 24 😂

[@leokizzo3515]

Wesley Bright meanwhile Nash never averaged over 18 ppg once his entire career smfh.

[@Aceboogie_13]

Leo Kizzo because he wasn’t just a scorer 😂

[@kdsburner5207]

And Nash’s defense was dog 💩 compared to AI’s

[@Aceboogie_13]

KD’s Burner I Mean they both weren’t good defenders AI is just a better team defender

[@hackingtuturugate5557]

"He made the finals and then nothing after that." Ah yes, because Steve Nash won SO many titles.

[@ohkay2360]

Let's look at why nash didn't 03 Dirk gets hurt in conference finals 05 Joe johnson breaks his face 06 by the time they hit the conference finals they are missing 3/5th of their starting line still take mavs to 6 07 game 1 bloody nose game 3 the ref goes to prison for betting against them game 5 suspensions

[@UtotheJ]

oh kay AND Losing to ALL eventual champions except for that Mavs team that got robbed by DWade. Had Nash broke through in ANY of those years, they’d be overwhelming favorites to win the championship

[@justinwilliams5982]

Somebody watched SB nation untitled

[@turk3sh]

Werent they talking shit about Nash winning those two MVPs? About how Shaq and Kobe shoulda won them? LOL

[@jakesmooke3644]

Nash made one SEMI-final and nothing after that

[@pman8478]

I get the knock on the analytics for iverson but its also silly to think he wouldn't be more efficient with less shots and pass more. They built the offense around him the way they did and honestly he was taking harder shots than all but a few players in the league. I think iverson's become underrated in a weird way which i never saw coming

[@mkpm1304]

Exactly. These bums forget he had *no help whatsoever* on offense. He took lots of bad shots because *he had too* . By the time he had another scorer to play with his body was beat to hell ! If he had Melo from yr 1 I think his qvg stays the same *but* his efficiency shoots up along with his assists per game. He was underrated passer and defender imo. Imagine if AI goes to Dallas and plays with Dirk ? Jesus !

[@juanm6248]

Ray had his prime years in Seattle where he beat the single-season record for 3 pointers.

[@ElBrillante4]

Didn't Kobe have the previous record with 12?

[@juanm6248]

@@ElBrillante4 I was referring to a season total.

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

His prime years were also in Milwaukee.

[@slickeddy2000]

Juan M Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis Seattle teams where Dark Horse championship contenders. Behind the Lakers,Spurs,and the rest of the West when 50 wins couldn’t guarantee you a playoff spot

[@jayfletcher852]

@@slickeddy2000 yah for one season we were contenders.

[@frankmaitland2569]

Iverson 5'9 played 7'0. He was a MONSTER!

[@1Solace]

Bro he was not 5 9, why are people making him shorter all the time

[@laydownkyle]

Had to stop after 5 minutes..you know how many Billy King teams Iverson had to slog through?

[@nasholston5112]

AI was playing with the same level of talent squads Kobe was missing the playoffs with

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Nas Holston Kobe was in the WEST.

[@austin78993]

@@nasholston5112 Kobe would have made it in the east too though.

[@nasholston5112]

@@austin78993 Wasn't talking about Kobe lol. He's far and away #1 its not even a question.

[@nasholston5112]

Oh wait y'all don't know what I'm referring to. I'm talking about AI and Kobe from about 05-07. They both put up huge numbers on shitty teams and didnt make the playoffs. I'm not arguing that Kobe is not better than AI. Thats a stupid argument. I'm saying they criticized Iverson for not winning with no talent and I wanted to point out what happened to Kobe with no talent

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

That 2005 Finals was awesome. I'm tired of people like Bill disrespecting both teams for being in the finals.

[@mavssami41]

It was trash af

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

@@mavssami41 It was competitive. Are you saying that because it didn't feature two big market teams?

[@mavssami41]

@@Doknot-tb9ey no bc it was one of the most boring finals rhe average score was like 75-77 lol wack

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

@@mavssami41 It was awesome. You don't get it.

[@mavssami41]

@@Doknot-tb9ey it's nostalgia....it sucked I'm sorry but it was trash

[@JFillify]

My only quibble is that I would have Camby behind Wallace, Peja, and Marbury. His peak was nowhere near those 3. I don't really value the minutes-eating portion of his career that much.

[@razkable]

this just shows these guys are using win shares off basketballreference.com to decide their picks not stats or eye test cause win shares has to do with your team not you individually hence why rasho nesterovic had a top 10 career of this draft according to that stat because he played next to kg bosh and duncan flat out every year almost of his career so of course he is going to win more games than someone on the grizzlies for example at that time but it had nothing to do with rasho as the stats prove...its lazy to decide this way....according to win shares fisher is a top 11 player of this draft..yeah fucking right... ...brad miller went undrafted in 98 so they didn't even draft him cause he didn't show up in the 98 draft and they forgot about deshawn stevenson in the worst draft ever in 2000, not saying deshawn would be top 15 in most drafts but in 2000 he is cause he had a long solid career albeit a bad stats one he had some tony allen in him or bowen or battier or prince where the stats didn't represent his effect on a defense amongst other picks they did like the often injured career starter on bad teams garbage time minny all star michael dickerson in 98 over some dudes or picking jay will in 2002 when he had no career to speak of due to injury and picking nash over ray allen and ai was just insanity imo...

[@PIP...33]

@@razkable BRYANT IS NOBODY NEVER SAW PLAYOFF IN CAREER. NASH ALWAYS HAD 3 OR 4 ALLSTARS SNIPERS. DIRK FINLEY STACKHOUSE ANTOINE WALKER JAMISON...THEN ISO JOE JOHNSON, AMARE, MATRIX THOSE ARE 10 ALLSTARS. NAME ME 1 ALLSTAR IVERSON HAD BESIDE OLD MUTOMBO WHO CANT SHOOT ??? BRYANT IS NOBODY. IM GLAD KARMA PAYBACK TO LIAR. REST IN PIECES FOR GIRL THAT U ABUSED 2003 AND RIGGED RINGS BY TIM DONAGHY.

[@AntiChris84]

@@razkable massive double standard in how they justify some of these picks. Jay Will and Darko picks for upside and “what if” factor like we haven’t already seen how these careers played out and then pick guys for longevity with the benefit of hindsight. The whole concept is that you’re GM with a time machine, how the tf do you pick jay williams top 14? It’s crazy. The guy on the 2003 redraft was an espn writer who had darko at #2 at the time, then picks him at 14 like he still can’t let go of his all time terrible mock draft. At that point you may as well take guys like brandon roy, oden, jay will at #1 bc who knows how good they could’ve been.

[@here4boxing]

The entire Sixers roster was hurt vs Milwaukee and they still lost. So how were they better?

[@thezdbailey]

Are you kidding me? It's pretty much been proven that series was fixed. Along with Sacramento getting screwed in 2002.

[@here4boxing]

Zach V that’s bs. If Milwaukee couldn’t win a “fixed” series when Iverson could barely walk, they didn’t deserve to win.

[@sevenofcrows7]

@@here4boxing oh your one of those people who didn't watch the series.. How about the bucks receiving 5 flagrant fouls to Sixers 0. Twelve technical fouls! Scott Williams being suspended for a game seven in the ecf. Milwaukee had no post defense! It wasn't rigged, but you sure as hell got help from the nba. Plus mutombo was great in that series and Aaron McCie was defensive player of the year. Wish I lived in the narrative you believed in when everything is so simple.

[@here4boxing]

Michael Rohde Iverson could barely walk by game 7. Scott Williams wasn’t the x-factor in the series. Milwaukee as a team had horrible shot selection. They blew it themselves.

[@petersciacchitano7475]

That why iverson was the second best player and would be picked second in this draft put hem on his back and won over Allen and company and Nash didnt make the final ever I watch the games and iverson was one of a kind

[@who1171]

There is a player in this draft who had the following run over a 5 year span: - was the best player on an NBA champion (1x) - all NBA second team (4x) - all nba defensive first team (5x) - defensive player of the year (4x) He was taken 7th in this redraft, behind Marcus Camby The disrespect towards Ben Wallace and defensive players in general is out of hand. Wallace was the anchor of the best defensive team in the league and his team won 50+ games each year during this stretch. He won 50 games in Detroit before Billups or Rip showed up. Ben Wallace was the guy. People had the nerve to question whether he is a hall of famer. Despite having a shorter prime, Ben still managed to earn more individual and team accolades than the majority of "STAR" players do in their entire careers. The majority of players on max contracts in todays NBA can't hold a candle to Ben Wallace and his resume. This is a top 3 defender of all time who had all the accolades to prove it. You can't say his defense is less valuable than a traditional star player. But Wallace won a championship this way with his defense at the core of it. This man had a legendary career and people ignore it because he wasn't scoring 17 points a night. Most star players in this league wish they could have the kind of inidivual and team success Ben Wallace did - and even when they retire, they still won't stack up.

[@jordan12118]

I’m convinced Ryen hates the Celtics. How do you pick Marcus Camby in the redraft? I’d go Wallace,Marbury and especially Stojakovich over him

[@yeetmeat7837]

Jordan Davis Ryen is just convinced they need to upgrade from theis and kanter

[@DTwoHS]

Would have still been better than Antoine Walker

[@jordan12118]

@@DTwoHS Would it have been?

[@jordan12118]

@@yeetmeat7837 Even from 24 years ago😂

[@75aces97]

Boston had Wallace out of that draft. He tried out for them but got cut. 1996 Wallace was just a skinny swingman who couldn't shoot. Nobody wanted him until he started talking *ahem* vitamins. And every team got better when they got rid of Marbury.

[@petermadash4488]

They say Iverson's career flamed out too soon. Well, the argument could be made that Nash also took too long to develop into a starting point guard. Iverson came to the league ready from day one.

[@josearrocha3377]

Peter MaDash which makes no sense. Iverson was great for over a decade. And it’s the front offices that forced him out. And you’re right. Iverson came out NBA ready. It took Steve Nash a few years to find his groove.

[@Wolvie12100]

Steve Nash took a while to develop because at his first stint with Phoenix the PG starting position was held up by JKidd and Kevin Johnson was still playing at the time as well, so you can't really develop quickly when your minutes are spread across other more established PGs. He got better when he got to Dallas and was totally unleashed when he got with D'Antoni in Phoenix. I think the knock on Nash was the pure fact that he was waaay ahead of his time. His abilities just wasn't appreciated fully during his first few years in the league but when he was given the chance, he took the chance. Also his style just aged better with the league. He was in his mid-30s with Phoenix and was still contributing greatly to winning records and long runs in the Playoffs which is something I can't say for AI

[@petermadash4488]

@@Wolvie12100 That argument can be made about a lot of great players. Kobe was held back and buried on the Lakers bench by Del Harris. He is still number 1 on any list. That is not an excuse. The fact is, Iverson was better... 4x scoring champion, 7x All-NBA attests to this. I doubt you will find many basketball fans who think Nash had a better career than AI.

[@elbowgang9715]

@@Wolvie12100 gtfoh Nash didn't become great until the rules changed to a European style. Take y'all asses back to hockey yall made basketball even softer

[@20marvelman]

And never cared about winning

[@County_da_kang]

In 96 lottery picks were expected to have instant impact. Drafting for potential and waiting for the player to develop wasn't a league wide trend until 4 or 5 years later.

[@75aces97]

Sort of. Top picks were usually 21-22 years old, so if you drafted a guy top 3 and he didn't show something impressive in the first 2 years, you started second guessing your pick. Chauncey Billups got traded 3 times in his first 2 years, and all 4 teams gave up on him. Teams might have been more patient if he'd been #13 pick or something.

[@davidoconnor2133]

Love that Russillo is staring down at his screen a lot of the time and you assume he's checking stats (as Bill does off to the side). Then he outs himself as simply staring at his own image by debating whether or not to go tank top/jersey for the feed. I love the Sunday pods (or Monday late arvo's over here) whether it be Sal during NFL season or Russillo.

[@louielyons9365]

Iverson career points avg - 26.7 Nash career points avg - 14.3 nash career assists - 8.5 Iverson career assists - 6.2 Both are bad defenders but Iverson lead the league in steals many times Iverson career steals - 2.2 Nash career steals - 0.7 Iverson's 'bad' season in Detroit-17 ppg Nash's prime in phoenix - 14 ppg

[@3serio]

Glad somebody said it

[@karimb972]

1 - Shooting percentages, mate. Shooting the ball 30 times per game will inflate your scoring average but a poor shooting % like Iverson's decreases your team's chance of winning. 2 - Hockey assists and passing the ball is essential even when it doesn't show on the assist sheet. 3 - Sometime it's preferable to stay in position than to gamble for a steal and get burned for a basket. 4 - Advanced stats show that Nash's impact on winning was basically the same as Iverson's. The difference was between volume vs. efficiency. 5- Nash's prime in Phoenix was not 14 ppg but 17 ppg. Overall, Iverson was a better defender and Nash the better offensive player.

[@PIP...33]

BRYANT IS NOBODY NEVER SAW PLAYOFF IN CAREER. NASH ALWAYS HAD 3 OR 4 ALLSTARS SNIPERS. DIRK FINLEY STACKHOUSE ANTOINE WALKER JAMISON...THEN ISO JOE JOHNSON, AMARE, MATRIX THOSE ARE 10 ALLSTARS. NAME ME 1 ALLSTAR IVERSON HAD BESIDE OLD MUTOMBO WHO CANT SHOOT ??? BRYANT IS NOBODY. IM GLAD KARMA PAYBACK TO LIAR. REST IN PIECES FOR GIRL THAT U ABUSED 2003 AND RIGGED RINGS BY TIM DONAGHY.

[@PIP...33]

@@karimb972 NASH HAD SPREAD FLOOR WITH SNIPERS U BLIND DAMAGED PATHOLOGICAL LIAR DONT U EVER TALK BOUT SPORT AGAIN U LIAR !! U DAMAGED PATHOLOGICAL

[@Celtics6-0vsMonkeyJordan]

@@karimb972 Nash had 10 allstars in Dallas and Phoenix entire decade from 1996 to 2006 won nothing. Nowitzki Joe Johnson Finley Jamison Antoine Walker Van Exel Antawn Jamison Matrix Amar'e Stackhouse etc. Nash is nobody in history Iverson is GOD. Easy to score when Nowitzki and Finley spread floor . You are deranged.

[@LyleKruger]

Ben Wallace disrespect is unreal. MARCUS CAMBY over him? Sure, his prime was pretty short, but in that short prime HE HAD 4 DPOYS. That’s an nba record! Plus, he had more career blocks than fouls. The offensive play was an issue but I’m sure if he was asked to learn how to shoot corner 3’s (Bruce Bowen style) he could do it

[@dimitrijetucovic1307]

He was fucking terrible on offense, he's basically DeAndre Jordan on an insanely defensively good Pistons team that played the slowest, most painful to watch basketball.

[@davidburke6959]

Bill is spot on about Iverson's height. I am 5 foot 9 and I saw Iverson up close at a game I could not believe that we were the same height or how slender he was.

[@davidng8870]

Just incredible

[@andu1854]

It’s a reason why his body broke down, but he is one of the best athletes to lace up, but there is a reason why z Lebron is on season 22 and AI is done at 14… but he beat that 01 Lakers team which demolished everyone that season, Game 1 was a classic & Iverson just wasn’t going to be able to get 46 each game and 4 losses later, Lakers were all time playoff great…

[@beaker8111]

I remember a young Ray Allen absolutely torching my Jazz in the playoffs. Like, we couldn't stop him from doing ANYTHING. The only other player that I remember feeling so helpless against was MJ.

[@mike04574]

When was this? When ray allen was 30?

[@chrisburns8562]

It wasn’t the playoffs but I’m guessing it was when he dropped 47 with Milwaukee or his 54 with Seattle

[@johnberry2678]

Allen Iverson carried a team to the finals & took a game away from one of the greatest playoff teams in NBA history. I’m sorry but I don’t think Ray Allen or Steven Nash are capable of doing that

[@20marvelman]

Nope, but they're capable of keeping the team afloat and getting the best out of everyone. That was the one year Iverson let himself be coached, and if the dude isnt about winning, why have him on your team? Its why he was almost trades to Detroit befoee that season

[@dbsuper2928]

People always say he carried that team with the coach of the year the dpoy and the 6th man oh yeah and Iverson the MVP, AI my favorite player of all time but basketball is a team sport Ray Allen ain't better but Nash is arguable

[@CheefChaos]

It took a cheating Ref and a Shameful Comish JUST TO KEEP NASH OUT OF THE FINALS.

[@phamawa]

Nash was ridiculously close to doing so and he played in the West against some top tier teams. Ill take him over AI all fucking day! Lets not mention the intangibles, like leadership and overall personality.

[@CheefChaos]

Also Nash's team came back down from 3-1 against Kobe, coming back 3-1 is away more impressive than getting basically swept in the finals 4-1

[@AJFox-cv3kb]

Thank you! No new games is miserable. You guys talking ball is like methadone for my NBA withdrawal.

[@tylito4764]

The disrespect on AI smh

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

What's up with Bill Simmons and Ryen disrespecting Iverson like that?

[@ryanhudson4426]

They sound racist. And I'm a white guy. But there is no way in hell that nash is picked before Iverson

[@ryanhudson4426]

Wtf?? Now they saving Ray Allen over Iverson!!!! Wtf

[@ryanhudson4426]

@Don Cornelius huh? but he made them good enough to get to the finals. Nash couldn't do that and had a way better team. So did nash make his team that much better?

[@ryanhudson4426]

@Don Cornelius yeah I'm a idiot for thinking 2 middle age white males would be bias towards a guy like Iverson. Lol when clearly Iverson was the better player

[@CareFreeCommuting]

Ben Wallace’s was a poor man’s Bill Russell, won with defense. And yeah, he did dominate that entire end of the floor and had a terrible offensive game lol.

[@charleswoodsongoat1258]

Neal bill Russell also had an awful offensive game

[@eboooo]

Bill Russell could score and was the centerpiece of their offense through his passing. Actually the Celtics struggled when he retired offensively because of his absence. Bill wrote about this in 2009.

[@Kalinbuggs]

AI at 4??? Camby at 6???? Marbury, peja and walker that's crazy Big Ben was better than camby literally in every way besides scoring and its not by a lot

[@josephjohnroe3678]

Was he? Wallace wasn't asked to do anything other then play D and rebound. Camby was a phenomenal dedender and you could ryn offense through as a passer. People cringed when Wallace touched the ball.

[@tittytrav55]

@@josephjohnroe3678 we didn't cringe, we held our breath and prayed! Though I'd rather have a 4 time DPOY on my team anchoring the defense

[@teestreeter8052]

Rusillo taking Nash over Iverson disqualifies all his hoops opinions

[@AG-po7bl]

"This isn't an anti-Iverson thing, this is strictly he didn't care about winning." - this would be an example of a praise/stab thing that main-stream media has perfected. I am absolutely sure that he did care about winning more than anything. He just did in a way a soldier would, not a general.

[@Apo_Ni_Baby_Kupal]

The NBA wanted Iverson in that 2001 Finals.

[@synapse913]

Disagree. If Iverson cared "in a soldier" way, he would have taken better care of his body. And yes, he would have *practiced* more, and expanded his offensive capabilities. There's a reason that he was out of the league as soon as it became apparent to everyone that his body was giving in to age.

[@DennisEspiritu]

You know how stacked this draft class is when Iverson is at 4th pick

[@badlands75]

Would love to hear the discussion of the impact of the coaches with the players at that draft time.

[@sergiogarcia5593]

Guys, Iverson was a league MVP and took a game from the greatest playoff team in NBA history...on the road. He has the second or third highest PPG in playoff history. He actually made the Finals as a lead man, unlike Nash and Allen. 33.0 ppg as his career high and had a 10-year prime. AI is going second. And, when they picked up Mutombo, the team’s defensive rating when down.

[@cybersub4693]

The problem is the results. It's all self glossing. Only 1 playoff run in his entire career, his shit just didn't result in team success outside of that 1 run. That's the problem with AI. Reminds me of Westbrook's career. 1 Finals run, rest is all self glossing. Shout out Jim Rome.

[@ceceroxy2227]

You are cherry picking, Nash took a 29 win team to 62 wins, went deep in the playoffs way more times than Iverson in a way tougher conference. Iverson had one great year that people remember. Nash played 10 years longer in the league. Iverson rode the bench by 30.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@cybersub4693 Westbrook's career is drastically different my misinformed friend, he started out in the league with KD and Harden starting out, then played with paul george, now lebron, he has never been the leader of a team, stop it man

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@ceceroxy2227 maybe the conference wasnt as tough as the hype makes it seem

[@MHBULLSFAN]

3:30 the same TMac who kept losing in the 1st round. I like Tmac by the way but the AI hate is beyond stupid

[@richquatro415]

You think AI better than Tmac?

[@swizzy215]

Fuck yes AI is better then T Mac. T Mac shouldn’t even be in the HOF. He never got out the first round of the playoffs are you kidding me

[@stuartrobertson5062]

@@swizzy215 Holy shit you're living proof that NBA fans don't watch games.

[@justaloe]

@@swizzy215 T Mac never played on a team that was good enough to make the finals. You can't make the finals on your own.

[@swizzy215]

@@justaloe we make a ton of excuses. Idc about talent, I saw T Mac play too much in my life. At the end of the day results matter. T Mac if he is the caliber player you all claim he is or rather the NBA HOF claims he is should have seen the 2nd round of an NBA playoff once. I’m not asking for a finals appearance or even conference final. Just the second round. Now if that’s too much to ask especially when he had Yao Ming then I apologize my expectations are too high 😂

[@nurkicflizdale570]

This very MUCH felt like an "anti-Iverson" thing my guy!

[@s.shephard8547]

u can tell russillo has no idea what do to with his hands/face in these. just looks mad and confused at the same time

[@BIG-TAX-10]

The iverson hate is unreal

[@Cbart23]

I love Iverson.

[@EGarrett01]

49:30 "That'll be like the Tom Brady Bucs jersey." "You think he's gonna play one game?"

[@LanceJ.]

Steve Nash played with Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley, Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard and never sniffed the NBA Finals while Allen Iverson took Eric Snow and Aaron McKie to the Finals.

[@JonReynoldsESQ]

Nash over Iverson is wild.

[@AhmeenTheDream]

I mean it's explained in the video that Nash made his team better than Iverson could, so it makes sense.

[@kb5509]

It isn't. It's as tame as it can possibly be.

[@octopus8420]

Nash is the better Steph Curry, all while being the original actually.

[@kb5509]

@@octopus8420 get an absolute grip of yourself.

[@aaronc.7972]

Iverson took a bunch of role players to the Finals and even got a game on a vaunted Lakers team. Nash played with elite players his whole career and never even made it to the Finals. Ray Allen did nothing of note as the leader of a team. The Iverson disrespect is funny, and typically comes from guys who can't dribble a basketball.

[@Hidden_Seeker_]

Nash would've made the finals multiple times if his Suns were in the East

[@curtsolomons]

Voltaire fool🤣

[@josephjohnroe3678]

It's cute you think Iverson took Philly to the finals in everyone. Everyone knows the NBA finals was really the western conference for the majority of the decade, especially from 00 to 03.

[@ja8ames]

@@Hidden_Seeker_ Yeah, sometimes the Finals appearance comparison isn't an even one.

[@tpsam]

@@josephjohnroe3678 yet during THE FINALS the REAL one Lakers lost their only game While they swept the entirety of the west where according to you there was the ReAl FiNaLs

[@pex3]

Dikembe was 34 years old... Put Iverson on a team with a legit 2 way big man, then what happens?

[@gangstagummybear3432]

facts

[@MVSteve13]

1. Kobe 2. Nash 3. Ray 4. Iverson 5. Wallace 6. O’Neal 7. Peja 8. Marbury 9. Camby 10. Big Z

[@racksonracks6189]

Steve Nash who played high school ball in British Columbia would have saved the Vancouver Grizzlies. It is mind boggling that Stu Jackson (General Manager for Vancouver at the time) did not want to draft or even later trade for a local kid as basketball was bring introduced to a Western Canada.

[@georgecoumbos2511]

So true, well said and I completely agree!

[@z3r0lt50]

Iverson never got the 50/50 calls from the refs. They hated him and cost him at least an extra 4pts/game from not calling fouls

[@theeggreat4]

Go watch the 01 ECF and say that with a straight face

[@jonathangazala421]

@@theeggreat4 Revisionist historians all over KZbin. 20 years from now them kids will tell us that Harden got no respect from the refs

[@z3r0lt50]

@@theeggreat4 go look it up. Even a referee admitted they don't like him that's why the calls never go his way. I admit, that series against the bucks was questionable in their favor but that was 1 series against a whole lot of games throughout his career

[@keepkalm]

Ray Allen near shot down the San Antonio Spurs with the Sonics. I think he had a game six shot at home that just missed. Great player.

[@razkable]

with lewis hurt

[@cap1076]

I remember that shiiiiz

[@dayofayanju9021]

The irony- Ray Allen eventually did shoot down the San Antonio Spurs

[@andu1854]

@@dayofayanju9021 on one of the greatest last minute and championship losing saving shot as to know where to stop and turn and drain that three, crazy

[@emmanuelmoses7249]

Are you guys still doing the Rewatchables of classic games? I loved that and I love this as well

[@Jose-lf1gs]

Where do you watch them?

[@emmanuelmoses7249]

@@Jose-lf1gs Type in " Bill Simmons Rewatchables NBA"

[@Jose-lf1gs]

@@emmanuelmoses7249 Thanks

[@emmanuelmoses7249]

@@Jose-lf1gs 💯💯

[@rods7028]

I don't think you guys did it based on these teams 96 rosters cuz I dont see Minnesota drafting Jermaine Oneal to pair with KG

[@danielgalea8499]

Outrageous. I doubt any player of the era would agree, including Nash himself. Allen over Iverson is just hilariously bad

[@ZR38315]

Daniel Galea yeah I think that top 5 should go kobe, AI, Nash, Allen, and then Jermaine O’Neal tbh should be 5. I think he’s very underrated

[@fearofsaturn]

ray allen had a way better career and proved he could still be the #1 option on multiple occasions lol

[@sebastian597]

What point about the Allen vs AI argument do you disagree with or are you saying that because you like how AI would cross people in the regular season? lol. AI was a better Kyrie (not that much better btw) which isn't a knock, both great players but they can't win as the best player on a team. Ray got 2 rings, and they needed him in both to win it.

[@dantehoffman890]

Only if you're into style. If you're into having a great team, Nash is slightly superior

[@danielgalea8499]

@@sebastian597 The point that Iverson was a clearly better player. He was a better scorer by a significant distance... And didn't his team get to the finals, at Rays expense?

[@taylorjohnson2911]

Lmaooo imma say this here Iverson never had a legit second option. Dikembe was almost finished literally just a defender not great on offense and was OLD. Did they say Jerry Stackhouse?????! Jesus Christ

[@pts5217]

Don Cornelius AI was past his prime by then

[@mikebevibevi]

@Don Cornelius carmelo, Iv'e never been a good teammate and never led a team to a playoff win, Anthony?

[@blowc1612]

Big Sky Blue How was AI out of his prime? So basically around 07-08?! When Nash was just got done winning his MVPs? When Kobe was starting his 2nd dynasty run? When Ray Allen was just being recognized as the best shooter outside of Curry? When Peja injury ridden still managed to be a 2nd option to CP3 and became a role player for Mavs 3 years later? AI was already out of his prime? Well he really was so how can you take him over Allen and Nash? When AI peaked early in a conference that was weak and couldn’t cut in the West. Where West players playoff battles were gauntlets, and those better players had a longer caree than AI.

[@josephjohnroe3678]

Stack was putting up a consistent 20 plus a night his first 10 years outside of his injury seasons in 98 and 99. They traded him and he put up 30 lol. Not everyone wanted to play with a guy who dribbled for 20 seconds every possession. Stack was a monster on both ends for his 1st 10 years. Stop it.

[@stevenbarnes7960]

Lol jerry stackhouse I'm crying they said mutombo he good for 8 points I'm crying these dudes are jokes it's sad they have sports credentials

[@BLUEDELUCA]

wouldnt the grizzlies want to be selling jerseys as opposed to winning?

[@ej11481]

The dudes getting angry about Russillo and Simmons putting Nash above AI really don't understand basketball. And I say this as a lifelong Sixers fan who loved watching AI in his prime.

[@thekingcraig1]

I was pained a little every time Bill said "The Melee" while referring to the Malice as the Palace

[@mazengwe28]

Bill Simmons is the king of back-handed compliments.

[@wildbillwilmoth98]

Bring back VanCity

[@Benjofresh]

Talk about ahead of their time, the league was about 20 years too early on putting a team there.

[@wildbillwilmoth98]

@@Benjofresh I guess I agree with that I think they just didnt have the right scouting capacity compared to the raptors and didnt get lucky at the draft. They had bust after bust and that led to not having a big 3 to market around like the raps did.

[@racksonracks6189]

@@Benjofresh Disagree. They still averaged roughly 15,000 fans for the worst professional sports team in a 5-6 year span. Drafting Steve Francis was a huge mistake who openly said he didn't want to play in Canada (same thing that still happens to Toronto). While Lamar Odom and Richard Hamilton said they did want to play for Vancouver. The biggest mistake was not taking a gamble on Steve Nash (who grew up in Victoria, BC). If Vancouver sticks around another year and some how gets Yao Ming they would have a guaranteed sell out every home game with their heavy Asian population.

[@zaynrivers7433]

man it sucks looking back we had a chance to pick Nash, if they did we’d prolly still have a team today imo

[@gabecamper8559]

Bill Simmons saying Iverson didn’t play with anyone being false, finally someone said it. Simmons also forgot Iverson came into the league to Jerry Stackhouse but because Iverson didn’t wanna play the PG Stackhouse was driven off the team.

[@Comictalent]

3 of the top 10 shooting guards of all-time in a single draft - pretty awesome. I got Kobe at #2, Iverson at #5, Ray Allen at #9

[@1Solace]

I think the controversy with this sg list is from 3-5. I'm taking Wade at 3 all day

[@jerrylewis788]

How many Finals did Nash go to???

[@kb5509]

How many MVP's did Iverson win? How many teams did Nash dominate the ball for stats, against all logic? Better shooter, passer, leader, longevity and suited to winning.

[@jcf4074]

You don’t take Ray Allen over A.I. You have to build really well around Ray Allen to have success, which the Bucks did in ‘01, but that was the only time they had major playoff success during his Bucks era. His 5 years with Sonics he only made the playoffs once until they shopped him to the Celtics. I get their points, but I think they were too hard on Iverson

[@salvador6356]

Man it ain’t no way these dudes took ray allen over Iverson it you take both their peek for 10 years it’s AI .. ray allen 2 time all nba 2nd and 3rd team vs AI 7 time all nba 3 1st teams 3 2nd teams and 1 3rd this ain’t even that close

[@riogotti1008]

Nash over Iverson 😂✌🏾

[@turboplazz]

Truth

[@KK-pm7ud]

Iverson is the only player to take a game from the Shaq / Kobe Lakers that season they almost went undefeated. That's an accomplishment.

[@grantbrewer3270]

I appreciated what they said what iverson and I get Nash over him, but I can’t go ray allen before AI

[@robfoster8356]

Iverson is 2nd pick hands down

[@Stonecoldalston]

Grant Brewer you crazy taking Nash over Iverson what exactly have he done to take him over AI

[@57wookie]

@@Stonecoldalston nash in 07 and 10 should have at least made finals, I think he suffered a lot more bad luck than he had actual chokes, and pretty much every nash offense is all time level in productivity, efficiency, and advanced metrics, Iverson never elevated like that imo

[@Stonecoldalston]

57wookie regardless of the situations Nash had Dirk Antwon & Michael Finley In Dallas and couldn't win then He had Joe Johnson Amare Shawn Marrion and other talented players In Phoenix & never won Nash never was a Number 1 Guy that could carry a Team AI had to do that from Day One if you give AI all the talent Nash played with AI win atleast 1 the one time AI finally got another elite guy in Melo they was unlucky to have to face the Spurs then the Lakers in the first rounds

[@blowc1612]

Jak Jones that Spurs team was stacked!

[@Flawless_VicTory13]

Guy said Nash’s prime started in 98 😂

[@fortynights1513]

Not till at least 01

[@RARA-oi7mb]

Sorry guys but I am tuning out. Lost me right after pick 2. Iverson hands down. It was a privilege to watch Iverson play. No knock on Nash but come on. Iverson was a straight Warrior on the court. Just listen how his peers look up to him and admire his game. That alone speaks volumes.

[@crosswiz6]

You guys are nuts. Steve Nash and Ray Allen over Iverson? 🤦🏽‍♂️ Its much easier to find a Steve Nash or Ray Allen type of player then it is to find an Allen Iverson type. He was unstoppable not even Jordan could guard him. Iverson never had any adequate help on the offense. Mutombo was the best he ever had but he was old and just a defensive stopper, not much offense. Steve Nash played with great offensive players and only thing he has over Iverson is assists, but he had great teammates to pass it to. Who did Iverson have? Ray Allen played with Celtics and Heat big 3 which greatly benefited him, when has Allen Iverson had anything remotely close to that? Iverson was forced to be the ENTIRE offense standing under 6ft tall.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Unstoppable? The man shot 40% routinely, was always near the bottom of the league in efficiency, and his scoring was inflated by playing 5-8 more minutes per night then his peers

[@crosswiz6]

@@hardwoodthought1213 Yea go find me whoever can guard Iverson, even Kobe said Iverson was the hardest player he's ever had to guard.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

@@crosswiz6 My man AI shot BELOW 40% for his ENTIRE playoff career. That’s god fucking awful, so either players could guard him, or the air stopped AI, either way shooting 28 times a game to score 30 points isn’t close to being ‘unguardable’. I’ll trust the data and evidence more than his peers kissing ass

[@crosswiz6]

@@hardwoodthought1213 Thats the thing with u casual fans u don't look past the numbers or even put CONTEXT to them. AI was under 6ft when there were real centers in the paint, being the *ONLY* offense on his team, he had a big load to carry, name another player that size who had to carry an entire team on his back alone? Or lead a trash team to a FINALS AND BEAT AN UNDEFEATED SHAQ & KOBE LAKERS? Like I said go find me the player who could stop Iverson.

[@crosswiz6]

@@hardwoodthought1213 And by the way ur wrong, only 4 times he shot under 40% times in the playoffs, and his true shooting % was always above 45% for his entire career in the playoffs.

[@wesmanchild]

the Iverson disrespect is a joke on here

[@user-bq3hq6yg3y]

I mean it’s the truth lol. He wasn’t a high impact player. Why did he go to Denver and win only 50 games?

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@user-bq3hq6yg3y you expect an impact to be immediate? lol the big 3 in miami with bron wade and bosh didnt even win on their first try, and that is 3 allstars, so that's a moot point

[@diogocosta1305]

My 96 redraft is: 1 - Kobe Bryant 2 - Allen Iverson 3 - Steve Nash 4 - Ray Allen 5 - Jermaine O'Neal 6 - Peja Stojakovic 7 - Ben Wallace 8 - Marcus Camby 9 - Antoine Walker 10 - Stephon Marbury 11 - Shareef Abdur-Rahim 12 - Zydrunas Ilgauskas 13 - Derek Fisher 14 - Kerry Kittles

[@petermadash4488]

Agreed. No argument from me except maybe Camby over Walker.

[@diogocosta1305]

@@petermadash4488 I mean it's not a huge difference to me between those 2

[@petermadash4488]

@@diogocosta1305 Camby didn't do his potential justice in the NBA. At least Toine did and won a chip in the process.

[@diogocosta1305]

@@petermadash4488 yeah true, partly due to the era they played in and the teams they were on... Camby would probably stretch out to the 3 point line in this era, coupling that with his defensive ability and you would have a problem

[@HoonAgain]

I’m starting to look forward to these two talking about old sports. Somethings wrong or very right. Keep it going guys.

[@africadondada6555]

Love this concept!

[@razkable]

I don't love the execution....wright not making the list is a crime...r.i.p....dickerson just didn't have a career to speak of he was a garbage time all star getting stats in blowout losses playing 39 minutes when he was a 28 minute player max... and he had injuries..wright aleast contributed to playoff teams...

[@Sai4651]

This is a great draft, personally I'd take Iverson and have him exclusively be a shooting guard and find a better point guard.

[@benhaney9629]

He kind of was... I mean he handled the ball a lot for sure but he usually played with a PG... The finals run for instance. Eric Snow.

[@YossGold]

This is a fantastic idea ... I was sceptic going in but I think you approached and executed perfectly. Great stuff!

[@FantasyCalcio]

Lowry is the best charge taker in the league, maybe of all time. Almost all are not flops so idk what Russillo is watching.

[@Marmalada180]

Celtics bias

[@adelinesarkissian8161]

Are u fuking kidding me?

[@adelinesarkissian8161]

Lowry is a fukin scrub. When your game consists of 75% flopping and manipulating the refs, how can anyone respect this guy.

[@FantasyCalcio]

@@adelinesarkissian8161 New to watching basketball I see.

[@allanhee]

I'm confused...for which era are you doing the redraft? You mention analytics and that players like Allen and Camby would be even better today....does that mean that you're drafting for today's game? The NBA game was very different in 1996. They were still calling illegal defense back then and so floor spacing on offense and having shooters at every position weren't a priority back then.